---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/07/06: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:13 AM - Re: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment (Hunt Malcolm) 2. 05:02 AM - Phoenix (Tommy Walker) 3. 05:12 AM - Re: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment (N5SL) 4. 06:30 AM - Re: upper fuse doubler fit (N5SL) 5. 07:13 AM - Re: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment (Hunt Malcolm) 6. 07:13 AM - Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate: folow ups, pics and scotchbrite (Dan Morehouse) 7. 07:25 AM - Re: Phoenix (Charles Deiterich) 8. 07:26 AM - Re: green scotchbrite (BobTezyk) 9. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** (B Johnson) 10. 10:00 AM - Propeller Balancing (Jeffrey J Paris) 11. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** (Craig Moore) 12. 11:21 AM - Zinc chromate (Steve) 13. 11:43 AM - Re: Zinc chromate (Bill Howerton) 14. 12:26 PM - Re: Zinc chromate (Steve) 15. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** (B Johnson) 16. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** (Ron Butterfield) 17. 02:18 PM - Re: Zinc chromate (Zodie Rocket) 18. 02:18 PM - Re: Propeller Balancing (kevinbonds) 19. 02:34 PM - Local newspaper photo & article (Zed Smith) 20. 02:44 PM - Re: Propeller Balancing (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 21. 03:45 PM - Re: Propeller Balancing (doug kandle) 22. 04:16 PM - Re: Local newspaper photo & article (doug kandle) 23. 07:17 PM - Re: green scotchbrite (Dave VanLanen) 24. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: green scotchbrite (Mike Sinclair) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment From: "Hunt Malcolm" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" Scott Thanks to you and all the others, had no chance in finding this one in England! On point that is not clear from the manual, is the lock welded to the canopy frame? If not how is it fixed. Once again thanks to you all. Kind regards Malcolm CH601XL Plans Builder in England -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL Sent: 06 February 2006 16:20 Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Larry, Al, Trevor, Brandon, Neil and others: Thanks for all the replies on and off-list about the latches. I ordered them directly from Spaenaur and it was $50 for both sides and a few extra strikers ($50US was their minimum order). ZAC wants $370 for the pair of assemblies. Also, thanks for the lively discussion last week (or the week before) on towbar attachments. I made one last weekend with my little mill/lathe. It was a fun project and I think it will work well. It gave me something to do while my crankshaft is away. Here's a photo: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/2_4_06_Towbar.JPG Happy Building, Scott Laughlin 601XL/Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland > > > *Scott, >> > SPAE-NAUR company, Toronto. They can be purchased > from the Windsor > >> >Factory Supply 519-966-2202. The part numbers > are 099-031 for the left > >hand > >> >one and 099-030 for the right hand one. They > cost $36.40 Canadian each. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS > * Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a source external to Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. This email should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended recipient, nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is not an original intended recipient. If you have received this email by mistake please notify us by emailing the sender, and then delete the email and any copies from your system. Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders own and not made on behalf of Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:28 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Zenith-List: Phoenix --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" Listers, Has anyone had contact with Hal Rozema of Phoenix, AZ? His 701 web site is down and he hasn't posted anything on this list for some time now. Regards, Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:19 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Malcolm: I plan to weld it to the frame. Some modification to the latch is required also from what I understand. sl --- Hunt Malcolm wrote: > > On point that is not clear from the manual, is the > lock welded to the > canopy frame? If not how is it fixed. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:19 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: upper fuse doubler fit --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL John: I built my parts to the plans and the doublers fit almost perfect with a little overhang outside of the side skins (maybe a millimeter or so) - the opposite of your situation. If I were in your shoes, I would just make another doubler that's wider on the top and trim it to fit after drilling and cleco-ing. I used a file for a nice fit and I'm happy with the looks. I didn't take a photo of this, but found it in another shot here: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_15_05_Seats.JPG Did ZAC volunteer to send you a wider doubler? Scott Laughlin Wiring radio and intercom --- john butterfield wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield > > > hi list > > i am installing the upper fuse longeron doublers and > am having trouble with the fit. When put on, at the > shoulder position the longerons extend about 1/2 > inch > outboard of the doubler. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment From: "Hunt Malcolm" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" Many thanks, I have had a look at Eberhars's website www.eberhardcanada.com/slam.3.htm for some different angles. Malcolm -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL Sent: 07 February 2006 13:11 Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Canopy Latches and Towbar attachment --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Malcolm: I plan to weld it to the frame. Some modification to the latch is required also from what I understand. sl --- Hunt Malcolm wrote: > > On point that is not clear from the manual, is the > lock welded to the > canopy frame? If not how is it fixed. Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a source external to Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. This email should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended recipient, nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is not an original intended recipient. If you have received this email by mistake please notify us by emailing the sender, and then delete the email and any copies from your system. Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders own and not made on behalf of Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:19 AM PST US From: Dan Morehouse Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate: folow ups, pics and scotchbrite --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Morehouse Thanks everybody for being thankful. I've taken so much from this group over the past several months, so it's nice to add something. I'll be asking a few follow up questions to these guys in a little while, so please post any you have. I'll ask about the stain 'shadow' that remains or recurrs. I was told it's fine to paint over, but I will double check to make sure it would be nothing but a minor cosmetic defect. I hit the aluminum with a Blendes drum and also with Alumiprep and scotchbrite for the first time last night. The Alumiprep didn't work so-so. I used a GREEN scotchbrite and maybe 20# hand pressure after mixing the Alumiprep 1:2, the highest suggested mix ratio. Did that after a 6-8 minute dwell time. The Blendex drum on an angle grinder by itself worked much better. It looked like that stain shadow was left after an initial pass using 10-20# pressure on the grinder. It was much shinier and the shadow was only noticeable at certain reflective angles. I'm not sure this is what Dr. Dean talked about or not. I was able to get rid of it with a second pass and twice as much pressure. If this will be the interior side, I might not even have to do that. One of my questions I'll ask. I emailed a few pics of this to the list. I'm told it may take a few days to post and the group will be notified. Finally, it seems there's a debate on the grade of scotchbrite to be used. I'm using green and have heard others say maroon is better. Is that a finer or coarser grade? Cheers, Dan --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Phoenix From: "Charles Deiterich" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Deiterich" Hal had the flu around the first of the year and was in the hospital but was supposed to go home. I have not heard anything since then. Chuck D. N701TX > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" > > Listers, > > Has anyone had contact with Hal Rozema of Phoenix, AZ? His 701 web site > is > down and he hasn't posted anything on this list for some time now. > > Regards, > > Tommy Walker in Alabama > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:35 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite From: "BobTezyk" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk" 3M publishes several application documents specifically for use in aircraft. I have attached them to this message in the BBS forum. Those of you who get the email distribution will have to go there to get them. Hope this helps. Bob Tezyk Getting Hangar ready to build a 601XL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10584#10584 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmfg_199.pdf http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmaint_105.pdf ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:49 AM PST US From: "B Johnson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" Can someone just cut to the chase and tell me, the 6061t-6 parts on my Sonex that I have buffed with green scotchbright pad, (it says "type S" on the pad I cannot read the numbers though) Are those parts trash now??? How will it screw it up, and is there anything I can do to fix it???? I'm about to finish riveting the layers of my spar together which were scuffed with this pad, then painted with NAPA self etching primer.... The 2 documents really say nothing about the above issue.... Thanks! -Bruce Johnson -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobTezyk Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:26 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk" 3M publishes several application documents specifically for use in aircraft. I have attached them to this message in the BBS forum. Those of you who get the email distribution will have to go there to get them. Hope this helps. Bob Tezyk Getting Hangar ready to build a 601XL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10584#10584 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmfg_199.pdf http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmaint_105.pdf -- -- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:40 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing From: "Jeffrey J Paris" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" Guru's of the Zenith List, I've Googled without much luck, but does anyone have an inexpensive way, directions, instructions to balance ones' wooden propeller? I'm curious to see what has to be said? Thank you for your time and consideration. Jeff Paris N196ZP CH601XL Jabiru 3300 45 hours in the air and loving every minute of it!!!! ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:03 AM PST US From: Craig Moore Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore Bruce, I have poured through the 3M website, and it appears that the green pads are "scrubbing pads" and the maroon pads are "abrasive pads". The 7447 maroon pads are coated with aluminum oxide abrasive and cut the same as aluminum oxide "sandpaper". The green pads are not coated and are simply synthetic fiber and are for cleaning, like a common dish scrubber. That would explain why Gary had so much "green dust". I have two links to the 3M website, for the 2 different pads. Green Scrubbing Pads - http://tinyurl.com/byss3 Maroon Abrasive Pads - http://tinyurl.com/7lnpr When I worked for a large regional airline, we only used the 7447 pads. Hope this clears it up. You should be fine. Craig Moore A&P 701 Builder wannabe --- B Johnson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" > > > Can someone just cut to the chase and tell me, the > 6061t-6 parts on my Sonex > that I have buffed with green scotchbright pad, (it > says "type S" on the pad > I cannot read the numbers though) Are those parts > trash now??? How will it > screw it up, and is there anything I can do to fix > it???? I'm about to > finish riveting the layers of my spar together which > were scuffed with this > pad, then painted with NAPA self etching primer.... > > The 2 documents really say nothing about the above > issue.... > > Thanks! > > -Bruce Johnson > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of BobTezyk > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:26 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk" > > > 3M publishes several application documents > specifically for use in aircraft. > I have attached them to this message in the BBS > forum. Those of you who get > the email distribution will have to go there to get > them. > > Hope this helps. > > Bob Tezyk > Getting Hangar ready to build a 601XL > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10584#10584 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmfg_199.pdf > http://forums.matronics.com//files/sbforacmaint_105.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:16 AM PST US From: "Steve" Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve" Is there a difference between the zinc chromte marine vs aviation zinc chromate. Can the marine be used for corroion protection for my 701 rudder. Steve ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:40 AM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" I'm not really sure about the paint chemistry, but if you use it, you'll have to fly wearing a skipper's hat; begin all radio calls with "Ahoy!"; and you'll have to refer to your co-pilot as your "first mate" ...sorry, couldn't resist ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:19:07 -0600 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve" Is there a difference between the zinc chromte marine vs aviation zinc chromate. Can the marine be used for corroion protection for my 701 rudder. Steve ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:03 PM PST US From: "Steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve" Bill, With my level of frustration at this point with the anti-corrosion dilema ie; zinc chromate, zinc oxide, napa self-etching, etcetera etcetera, etcetera, and little humurous interjection is probably just what the doctor ordered. By the way "Ahoy" and "matey" are fine by me as long as I can find a solution that works. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Howerton" Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" > > I'm not really sure about the paint chemistry, but if you use it, you'll > have to fly wearing a skipper's hat; begin all radio calls with "Ahoy!"; > and you'll have to refer to your co-pilot as your "first mate" > > ...sorry, couldn't resist ;) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate > Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:19:07 -0600 > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve" > > Is there a difference between the zinc chromte marine vs aviation > zinc > chromate. Can the marine be used for corroion protection for my 701 > rudder. > > Steve > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:30 PM PST US From: "B Johnson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" A bit more research I cannot find my exact Scotchbrite on the 3m website, I got it from a surplus place so God knows if it's still in existence, but the original post referenced from the "luscomb association" or sum such says "type s no good" and that's what I actually have. It's more of a gray-green.. it very well could be gray, in which case I think the abrasive is "silicon carbide"... It is definitely NOT the green scrubby clean you sink thing.. K, now I get to research silicon carbide.... or relax and have a homebrew... Hrm.. have to think on that one. -Bruce -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Moore Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore Bruce, I have poured through the 3M website, and it appears that the green pads are "scrubbing pads" and the maroon pads are "abrasive pads". The 7447 maroon pads are coated with aluminum oxide abrasive and cut the same as aluminum oxide "sandpaper". The green pads are not coated and are simply synthetic fiber and are for cleaning, like a common dish scrubber. That would explain why Gary had so much "green dust". I have two links to the 3M website, for the 2 different pads. Green Scrubbing Pads - http://tinyurl.com/byss3 Maroon Abrasive Pads - http://tinyurl.com/7lnpr When I worked for a large regional airline, we only used the 7447 pads. Hope this clears it up. You should be fine. Craig Moore A&P 701 Builder wannabe --- B Johnson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" > > > Can someone just cut to the chase and tell me, the > 6061t-6 parts on my Sonex > that I have buffed with green scotchbright pad, (it > says "type S" on the pad > I cannot read the numbers though) Are those parts > trash now??? How will it > screw it up, and is there anything I can do to fix > it???? I'm about to > finish riveting the layers of my spar together which > were scuffed with this > pad, then painted with NAPA self etching primer.... > > The 2 documents really say nothing about the above > issue.... > > Thanks! > > -Bruce Johnson > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of BobTezyk > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:26 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk" > > > 3M publishes several application documents > specifically for use in aircraft. > I have attached them to this message in the BBS > forum. Those of you who get > the email distribution will have to go there to get > them. > > Hope this helps. > > Bob Tezyk > Getting Hangar ready to build a 601XL > -- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:45 PM PST US From: Ron Butterfield me*** Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite *** Please clarify for me*** --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield me*** At 01:35 PM 2/7/06, Craig Moore wrote: >The 7447 maroon pads are coated with aluminum oxide abrasive and cut >the same as aluminum oxide "sandpaper". And if someone thinks these are super-pricey aviation-only items, I just got an MSC flyer ( www.mscdirect.com ), and they have a whole section of these pads, in various compounds. The 7447 (part # AN03356540) are the least expensive, at $0.84 each in quantities of 10 or more. Just the color does not tell you exactly what a pad is for; you need the actual number which you can check against at the 3M site. There is also an 8447, same color size and grit, but which claims "50% greater life than conventional maroon pads" and is perforated to be torn in half. (part # AN03356573, $1.03 >10) > Regards, RonB ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:25 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" By the way "Ahoy" and "matey" are fine by me as long as I can find a solution that works. Steve ----------------- Also let's not have any mention of swabbing the poop-deck!!!! Cdngoose Sorry guys it has been a very long day Do not archive -- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:26 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Statically or dynamically? A friend of mine dynamically balanced his prop recently. He paid a guy about $150 to hook it up to a machine; run it up to cruise speed; and balance it there. Man does it fly smoother now! I watched the whole process and asked questions. Very cool. I do not often here anyone talk about dynamically balancing a prop. Seems like one of those things that people regard as voodoo or snake-oil or something. Also talk of indexing ones prop to the piston closest to it, so that the weight of the blades doesn't coincide with the force of the combustion event (I am not completely clear on this myself, just seen some valid arguments for doing so) is not often mentioned. I will be giving these things more thought as I get closer. Seems like a good idea to index then dyn. Balance. FWIW Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J Paris Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" Guru's of the Zenith List, I've Googled without much luck, but does anyone have an inexpensive way, directions, instructions to balance ones' wooden propeller? I'm curious to see what has to be said? Thank you for your time and consideration. Jeff Paris N196ZP CH601XL Jabiru 3300 45 hours in the air and loving every minute of it!!!! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:53 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Local newspaper photo & article --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Believe It Or Don't! Local afternoon scandal sheet ran a photo of Steve Fossett (AP photo) walking away from his "Virgin Atlantic Global Flyer". Registration in the picture shows N277SF. FAA data indicates Rotax powerplant. News article (by Mike Schneider of the AP) says he has 18,000 (eighteen thousand) pounds of fuel and his intention is to fly at 45,000 feet (flt lev 450). Did the writer possibly mean to say that the runway at the Cape was 18,000 feet long and cruise altitude would be 4500? Is this a new, secret, Rotax engine? Did I just miss something here? Is this the same reporter who did the 1977 "C-172 catches up with and runs down a PSA 727 at San Diego" story? do not archive, for I do not know how to calculate fuel burn on this one. Okay....point out that today is actually April 1st. Zed/701/R912/90+%/less than nine tons see page 8, www.theparisnews.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:21 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Indexing the prop I simply don't buy...If the prop is balanced it is already balanced relative to istelf. It should make no difference how it is indexed. Dynamically balancing does make make a HUGE difference that I can vouch for personally. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:17 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Statically or dynamically? A friend of mine dynamically balanced his prop recently. He paid a guy about $150 to hook it up to a machine; run it up to cruise speed; and balance it there. Man does it fly smoother now! I watched the whole process and asked questions. Very cool. I do not often here anyone talk about dynamically balancing a prop. Seems like one of those things that people regard as voodoo or snake-oil or something. Also talk of indexing ones prop to the piston closest to it, so that the weight of the blades doesn't coincide with the force of the combustion event (I am not completely clear on this myself, just seen some valid arguments for doing so) is not often mentioned. I will be giving these things more thought as I get closer. Seems like a good idea to index then dyn. Balance. FWIW Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J Paris Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" Guru's of the Zenith List, I've Googled without much luck, but does anyone have an inexpensive way, directions, instructions to balance ones' wooden propeller? I'm curious to see what has to be said? Thank you for your time and consideration. Jeff Paris N196ZP CH601XL Jabiru 3300 45 hours in the air and loving every minute of it!!!! ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:15 PM PST US From: doug kandle Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing --> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle I too have had very good results from dynamic balancing. Even after a new 72", balanced at the factory, three blade prop had been installed on an IO-520, the dynamic balancing still made quite a difference. As for indexing. A few years ago I had a long talk with one of the engineers at Macauley. I wanted to know why a particular prop could be used on another aircraft but not on mine even though the two used the same engine. What I came away with from that discussion was a much better appreciation of how much complex engineering goes into propeller design. The entire engine, prop, and engine mounting structure must be considered. It is a dynamic system and resonances are an important component. The prop flexes, the engine mounts move, and the forces on the system are impulsive. This all leads to a very complicated system. This is one area that it is best not to do much experimenting and just go with the propeller manufacturers recommendations. I have been told that on some prop-engine-mounting combinations that the orientation of the propeller relative to the crank shaft is critical to avoid resonance problems. At 03:41 PM 2/7/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > >Indexing the prop I simply don't buy...If the prop is balanced it is >already balanced relative to istelf. It should make no difference how it >is indexed. > >Dynamically balancing does make make a HUGE difference that I can vouch >for personally. > >Frank > >Do not archive > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinbonds >Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:17 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > >Statically or dynamically? A friend of mine dynamically balanced his >prop recently. He paid a guy about $150 to hook it up to a machine; run >it up to cruise speed; and balance it there. Man does it fly smoother >now! I watched the whole process and asked questions. Very cool. I do >not often here anyone talk about dynamically balancing a prop. Seems >like one of those things that people regard as voodoo or snake-oil or >something. Also talk of indexing ones prop to the piston closest to it, >so that the weight of the blades doesn't coincide with the force of the >combustion event (I am not completely clear on this myself, just seen >some valid arguments for doing so) is not often mentioned. I will be >giving these things more thought as I get closer. >Seems like a good idea to index then dyn. Balance. FWIW > >Kevin Bonds > >Nashville TN > >601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > >Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > >http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > >do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J >Paris >Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:56 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Propeller Balancing > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" > > > >Guru's of the Zenith List, > >I've Googled without much luck, but does anyone have an inexpensive way, >directions, instructions to balance ones' wooden propeller? I'm curious >to see what has to be said? > >Thank you for your time and consideration. > >Jeff Paris >N196ZP CH601XL Jabiru 3300 >45 hours in the air and loving every minute of it!!!! > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:58 PM PST US From: doug kandle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Local newspaper photo & article --> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle You must have typed in the wrong N-number. I get the correct info on N277SF ( assigned/Registered Aircraft Aircraft Description Serial Number 001 Type Registration Corporation Manufacturer Name SCALED COMPOSITES LLC Certificate Issue Date 02/04/2005 Model 311 Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50541023 MFR Year 2003 Fractional Owner NO DO NOT ARCHIVE At 03:31 PM 2/7/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > >Believe It Or Don't! > >Local afternoon scandal sheet ran a photo of Steve Fossett (AP >photo) walking away from his "Virgin Atlantic Global Flyer". > >Registration in the picture shows N277SF. FAA data indicates Rotax >powerplant. > >News article (by Mike Schneider of the AP) says he has 18,000 >(eighteen thousand) pounds of fuel and his intention is to fly at >45,000 feet (flt lev 450). > >Did the writer possibly mean to say that the runway at the Cape was >18,000 feet long and cruise altitude would be 4500? Is this a new, >secret, Rotax engine? Did I just miss something here? > >Is this the same reporter who did the 1977 "C-172 catches up with >and runs down a PSA 727 at San Diego" story? > >do not archive, for I do not know how to calculate fuel burn on this one. > >Okay....point out that today is actually April 1st. > >Zed/701/R912/90+%/less than nine tons > >see page 8, www.theparisnews.com > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:31 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" Bryan, So are you saying that the "green stuff" is OK? I purchased the green stuff, but could not find a part number on the product, so I don't know if I got part 7447+ or not. Since I haven't started building yet, I guess I'd like to know for sure if it is OK to use. I haven't seen any red stuff - wouldn't even know where to get that. Thanks, Dave Do not archive Time: 06:10:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin The 3M MSDS sheet for product P/N 7447+ shows that it uses an aluminum oxide abrasive so it should be correct for use on aluminum. I guess you can't tell what abrasive is used in the product by its color. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:36 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Thilo Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" > > > > Green dust??? Sounds, like you are using the green Scotchbrite. No good for > > aluminum. Use only the darl red stuff. Guess that since you kinda got this started, can you tell us where you got your reference as to the suitability of red vs. green? I have enjoyed the discussion and it is quite a bit late for me since I have mine already painted. I did use a solvent product called Final Kleen and a tack rag over all surfaces after using the green Scotch Brite, and I do believe I eliminated all the "green dust" before primer coats. Seems that there are a couple of opinions as to red or green, but so far nothing that really backs up one or the other. As I understand so far, green should clean the surface by scuffing, and red is more of an abrasive. For myself I think I would use the red only when dealing with a surface that has been previously painted and you are in the process of prepping it for new paint. And also if dealing with an aircraft that has a thicker skin than the typical Zenith aircraft (due to the abrasive nature of the red). But since I've been wrong at least once before (hate to admit that though, and ain't gonna say when), am open to any suggestions that will help our sport be safer. And did I say I've enjoyed this topic? Subjects like this keep the list interesting. Mike Sinclair N701TD Dave VanLanen wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > Bryan, > > So are you saying that the "green stuff" is OK? I purchased the green > stuff, but could not find a part number on the product, so I don't know if I > got part 7447+ or not. Since I haven't started building yet, I guess I'd > like to know for sure if it is OK to use. I haven't seen any red stuff - > wouldn't even know where to get that. > > Thanks, > Dave > > Do not archive > > Time: 06:10:02 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: green scotchbrite > From: Bryan Martin > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > > The 3M MSDS sheet for product P/N 7447+ shows that it uses an aluminum oxide > abrasive so it should be correct for use on aluminum. I guess you can't tell > what abrasive is used in the product by its color. > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. > do not archive. > >