---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/11/06: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:28 AM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? (Mike Sinclair) 2. 07:48 AM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? (Lee Ross) 3. 07:48 AM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? (Bryan Martin) 4. 08:00 AM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 5. 08:33 AM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? (n801bh@netzero.com) 6. 09:24 AM - Jabiru FWF kit for the XL (Craig Payne) 7. 09:46 AM - Re: XL firewall/motor-mount: bolts or studs (Gig Giacona) 8. 10:03 AM - Re: Jabiru FWF kit for the XL (Jeff Davidson) 9. 10:28 AM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE (Flydog1966@aol.com) 10. 10:45 AM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? (NYTerminat@aol.com) 11. 11:42 AM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? (Edward Moody II) 12. 02:19 PM - [ Bill Naumuk ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 13. 02:19 PM - [ Bill Naumuk ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 14. 02:27 PM - [ Dan Morehouse ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 15. 02:44 PM - [ Craig Payne ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) 16. 02:46 PM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? (Flydog1966@aol.com) 17. 03:05 PM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? (JOHN STARN) 18. 04:52 PM - Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? (Leo Gates) 19. 06:49 PM - Re: Jabiru FWF kit for the XL (Mike) 20. 07:32 PM - Marking sheet metal (George Swinford) 21. 07:34 PM - Re: Jabiru FWF kit for the XL (Craig Payne) 22. 08:59 PM - Construction Manual ? (lynn dingfelder) 23. 10:48 PM - Re: Construction Manual ? (Paul Mulwitz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:29 AM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Bruce As stated in my previous post, silicon (spelled without an E) carbide is an abrasive made from sand and carbon and is not a problem on aluminum. Silicone (spelled with an E) usually has the word rubber after it, is used as a sealant, make women's breasts larger, etc. and paint does not stick worth a darn. In your reply ( and in other places including product descriptions) I see the two words silicon and silicone being used interchangeably, and that dog don't hunt. If that European 3M website said silicone carbide (with an E), rather than silicon carbide (without an E), then they need to hire a new technical proofreader. You can't mix and match on these two. Mike Do Not Archive B Johnson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" > > Mike and flydog.... > > I am very certain the "DARK GREEN" (grey???) scotchbrite is the "S" type, > and doing some searching cannot find the link for> > > this "S" type is indeed Silicone Carbide > > So, I scrubbed some of the surfaces of my spar layup with this, painted it > with NAPA self etching primer (which seemed to stick VERY well....).. > > SO, what detriment does the silicon carbide have to aluminum... I have many > many hours on the parts that I "scuffed" with these pads.... > > Thanks > > Bruce > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:53 AM PST US From: "Lee Ross" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lee Ross" I have listened to a discussion of scotchbrite pads for the last week and I'm wondering if maybe next we can start a discussion of brooms or dishwashing gloves? Im sure it will be everybit as exciting as our current discussion. Lee -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:19 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Bruce As stated in my previous post, silicon (spelled without an E) carbide is an abrasive made from sand and carbon and is not a problem on aluminum. Silicone (spelled with an E) usually has the word rubber after it, is used as a sealant, make women's breasts larger, etc. and paint does not stick worth a darn. In your reply ( and in other places including product descriptions) I see the two words silicon and silicone being used interchangeably, and that dog don't hunt. If that European 3M website said silicone carbide (with an E), rather than silicon carbide (without an E), then they need to hire a new technical proofreader. You can't mix and match on these two. Mike Do Not Archive B Johnson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" > > Mike and flydog.... > > I am very certain the "DARK GREEN" (grey???) scotchbrite is the "S" type, > and doing some searching cannot find the link for> > > this "S" type is indeed Silicone Carbide > > So, I scrubbed some of the surfaces of my spar layup with this, painted it > with NAPA self etching primer (which seemed to stick VERY well....).. > > SO, what detriment does the silicon carbide have to aluminum... I have many > many hours on the parts that I "scuffed" with these pads.... > > Thanks > > Bruce > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin It's silicon carbide not silicone carbide. Silicon is a chemical element, Silicone is a group of inorganic polymers that use silicon one of the basic structural elements. This is a very common mistake, it's even found on several websites that offer abrasive products (including 3Ms). Technically "silicone" isn't even the correct name for the polymer but the name has stuck. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_carbide Anyway, the problem with silicon carbide abrasives and aluminum is that the carbon in it is not very compatible with aluminum and can cause corrosion problems under some circumstances. This is also the reason it is not recommended that you use pencils to mark aluminum, the graphite can cause corrosion problems. The preferred abrasive for use with aluminum is aluminum oxide. on 2/11/06 1:22 AM, B Johnson at bjohnson@satx.rr.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" > > Mike and flydog.... > > I am very certain the "DARK GREEN" (grey???) scotchbrite is the "S" type, > and doing some searching cannot find the link for> > > this "S" type is indeed Silicone Carbide > > So, I scrubbed some of the surfaces of my spar layup with this, painted it > with NAPA self etching primer (which seemed to stick VERY well....).. > > SO, what detriment does the silicon carbide have to aluminum... I have many > many hours on the parts that I "scuffed" with these pads.... > > Thanks > > Bruce > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:02 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair > >> However, someone posted that the MSDS for the pads shows them as > being >> made with aluminum oxide. If that is true,and I would believe the MSDS, > then >> they are fine on Aluminum. >> Iron oxide abrasives? I wonder if they mean silicone carbide, which > is >> bad for aluminum. > > I believe you may have two different materials mixed up. Adding the E onto > the > silicon in the above statement is actually a misnomer of the silicon carbide > material, and as such is a misrepresentation of the actual properties of the > material. Silicon carbide has a fairly widespread use in cutting > technologies and > has many uses in the business of building aircraft (see the description of > silicon > carbide below). Now the material "silicone" which is a rubbery material that > also > has many uses in aircraft, primarily as a sealer, is very detrimental to the > task > of getting paint to adhere to a surface. It is an absolute no-no in any area > > (snip) > > Mike Sinclair N701TD > > Silicon Carbide is the only chemical compound of carbon and silicon. It was > originally produced by a high temperature electro-chemical reaction of sand > and > carbon. Silicon carbide is an excellent abrasive and has been produced and > made > into grinding wheels and other abrasive products for over one hundred years. > Today > the material has been developed into a high quality technical grade ceramic > with > very good mechanical properties. It is used in abrasives, refractories, > ceramics, > and numerous high-performance applications. The material can also be made an > electrical conductor and has applications in resistance heating, flame > igniters > and electronic components. Structural and wear applications are constantly > developing. > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:15 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com I vote the gloves. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:43 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" I have listened to a discussion of scotchbrite pads for the last week and I'm wondering if maybe next we can start a discussion of brooms or dishwashing gloves? Im sure it will be everybit as exciting as our current discussion. Lee ///////////////////////////////////// Let me start with a big ol DO NOT ARCHIVE.. Now down to business...brooms and dishwashing gloves are " womans work" Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com I have listened to a discussion of scotchbrite pads for the last week and I'm wondering if maybe next we can start a discussion of brooms or dishwashing gloves? Im sure it will be everybit as exciting as our current discussion. Lee ///////////////////////////////////// Let me start with a big ol DO NOT ARCHIVE.. Now down to business...brooms and dishwashing gloves are " womans work" G BenHaas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:48 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru FWF kit for the XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Does anyone have opinions about Jabiru's firewall-forward kit for the XL? Pro, con, fit and finish, ease of assembly, performance once in the air, etc. This would be for their "newer" kit. I understand they did a redesign a year or so ago. And how is it dealing with Jabiru USA? Do they deliver what they promise by the date they promise it? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:21 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: XL firewall/motor-mount: bolts or studs From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" The engine mount will be installed prior to the glare shield be riveted. craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: > How do you hold the nut while tightening the bolts? Isn't it on the > pilot-side of the firewall? If so and the glare-shield is installed it could > be very hard to reach the nut with a socket. > > > > -- -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11438#11438 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:07 AM PST US From: "Jeff Davidson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru FWF kit for the XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Davidson" Does anyone have opinions about Jabiru's firewall-forward kit for the XL? I can answer part of this: After attending the maintenance course in Shelbyville last August, I decided to purchase both the FWF kit and a 3300A. Neither is yet installed. However, delivery was not a problem. The container shipment that included the engine bought had already been ordered when I placed my order with JabiruUSA. The prop is shipped directly from Sensenich. Due to their (Sensenich's) government related contracts, the prop took the longest to arrive, about 45 days after everything else. JabiruUSA was easy to work with, happy to respond in a timely fashion, and always easy to contact, but you do have to think for yourself and ask the right questions. They don't hold your hand. Others that attended the course and bought about the same time are further along installing the FWF and engine. Jeff Davidson ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:44 AM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com Yeah, I meant silicon,just kant spel. :) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:46 AM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Amen, Lee do not archive In a message dated 2/11/2006 10:49:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, LRoss@cngmail.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lee Ross" I have listened to a discussion of scotchbrite pads for the last week and I'm wondering if maybe next we can start a discussion of brooms or dishwashing gloves? Im sure it will be everybit as exciting as our current discussion. Lee ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:21 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" I liked the part about not being able to get paint to adhere to enlarged breasts, Ed Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: [ Bill Naumuk ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bill Naumuk Lists: Zenith-List Subject: Pre-punched holes http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/naumuk@alltel.net.02.11.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: [ Bill Naumuk ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bill Naumuk Lists: Zenith-List Subject: Pre-punched holes http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/naumuk@alltel.net.02.11.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:25 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: [ Dan Morehouse ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Dan Morehouse Lists: Zenith-List Subject: 'water stain' corrosion on sheets http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/messydeer@yahoo.com.02.11.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: [ Craig Payne ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! From: Email List Photo Shares --> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Craig Payne Lists: Zenith-List Subject: Installation of auto-pilots in Zenith 601XLs http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/craig@craigandjean.com.02.11.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:26 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com In a message dated 2/11/2006 2:43:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dredmoody@cox.net writes: I liked the part about not being able to get paint to adhere to enlarged breasts, Haa ! I missed that post, would someone please elaborate? (jest 'kiddin,please dont) Also if you are going to sweep out your wings before closing them,use a NEW broom. A old broom may have been used to sweep iron dust,silicon carbide,silicone, or even green scotchbrite dust. do not archive for goodness sake ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:35 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" That gave me pause for thought.....Ever wonder why all the dishwashing ad's on TV NEVER say anything about cleaning the dishes BUT lots about heavy grease removal & how really fine it's going to make your hands look and feel ? ? KABONG (sell the sizzle not the steak) Do Not Archive & note: post has been trimmed. 8*) Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lee Ross" > > of brooms or dishwashing gloves? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:39 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE **Evils of Silicon Carbide?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates On the second line from the top of page 11 of my Zenair Construction Manual it states, "Mark the _rivet line_ (pencil or felt marker, _never_ a scriber or center punch!)." Does Chris know something we don't? Do not archive Leo Gates N601Z Bryan Martin wrote: >Anyway, the problem with silicon carbide abrasives and aluminum is that the >carbon in it is not very compatible with aluminum and can cause corrosion >problems under some circumstances. This is also the reason it is not >recommended that you use pencils to mark aluminum, the graphite can cause >corrosion problems. > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:55 PM PST US From: Mike Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru FWF kit for the XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike > Does anyone have opinions about Jabiru's firewall-forward kit for the XL? I'll bite. So far, I'm pretty satisfied with the quality of the kit and the parts supplied. The only caveat is that the plans/instructions fall short of what I believe they should be, since there's lot of interpolation by the builder that needs to take place. But, from what I've learned, that's par for the course throughout the kitplane industry. And if you're inexperienced like me, that can be more than a bit frustrating. But, through the efforts of builders that have already struggled through the process, we at least have some photos and assistance to go by. Equally important is the help that you receive from the experienced builders on both this and the JabiruEngines Matronics list. Tech support from Pete at Jabiru USA has been good. A couple of hiccups and some slow shipping issues (again, fairly normal for this biz), but overall I'm pretty satisfied. Took a while to receive my engine (and still don't have the prop), so I would advise ordering ahead of time if you're getting close to that stage of your plane. Of course, I'm only about half in to the FWF installation and now struggling with the cowl & air ducts, so I reserve the right to revise my comments accordingly. :) Mike Fortunato 601XL, Jab 3300 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:38 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Marking sheet metal --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" Re Leo Gates post about the Zenith construction manual's marking methods If you don't want to use the Sharpie markers or something similar, try the Eberhard Faber #705 "Noblot Ink Pencil". Years ago a very experienced aircraft sheet metal man recommended them to me. The lead in the #705s is different from a regular pencil lead, and lacquer thinner removes it very nicely. Personally, I prefer the Sharpie markers because they make a darker line. George Swinford ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:27 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru FWF kit for the XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Thanks! I hadn't thought to check for a Jabiru forum. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 7:45 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru FWF kit for the XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike > Does anyone have opinions about Jabiru's firewall-forward kit for the XL? I'll bite. So far, I'm pretty satisfied with the quality of the kit and the parts supplied. The only caveat is that the plans/instructions fall short of what I believe they should be, since there's lot of interpolation by the builder that needs to take place. But, from what I've learned, that's par for the course throughout the kitplane industry. And if you're inexperienced like me, that can be more than a bit frustrating. But, through the efforts of builders that have already struggled through the process, we at least have some photos and assistance to go by. Equally important is the help that you receive from the experienced builders on both this and the JabiruEngines Matronics list. Tech support from Pete at Jabiru USA has been good. A couple of hiccups and some slow shipping issues (again, fairly normal for this biz), but overall I'm pretty satisfied. Took a while to receive my engine (and still don't have the prop), so I would advise ordering ahead of time if you're getting close to that stage of your plane. Of course, I'm only about half in to the FWF installation and now struggling with the cowl & air ducts, so I reserve the right to revise my comments accordingly. :) Mike Fortunato 601XL, Jab 3300 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:55 PM PST US From: "lynn dingfelder" Subject: Zenith-List: Construction Manual ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" I keep hearing about the "Construction Manual". I picked up my 601 kit at Zenith last Monday. I asked Nick where the construction manual was, and he gave me a puzzled look and referred me to the drawings, which I already have. Is there more? I have no "page 11" in my drawings. Lynn Dingfelder Corry, PA ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:18 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Construction Manual ? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz The Construction Manual everyone talks about could be the photo assembly guide that comes on CDROM with your plans. You can also download it, one chapter or part of a chapter at a time, from ZAC's web site. You will need builder access to the site to get past the password protection. You can get the password from ZAC either through an email request to info@zenithair.com or on the phone. The actual manual files can be found at http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-up-manuals.html. There is also a "Construction Manual" which you should have picked up with your plans. Each one has a serial number on the bottom of the cover page. I presume the serial number will be the same as the one on your plans. Mine is edition 2.0 dated January 23, 2003 and has 18 pages. This is a very important part of the official design documentation since it defines the construction techniques and standards used throughout the project. Good luck with your project. Paul XL wings At 08:52 PM 2/11/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" > > I keep hearing about the "Construction Manual". I picked > up my 601 kit at Zenith last Monday. I asked Nick where the > construction manual was, and he gave me a puzzled look and referred > me to the drawings, which I already have. Is there more? I have no > "page 11" in my drawings. > >Lynn Dingfelder > Corry, PA > -