Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:43 AM - Joe Horton's vibration analysis data (G. Harris (Pumpkin Man))
2. 05:58 AM - Re: Construction Manual ? (Trainnut01@aol.com)
3. 06:03 AM - slim rivet tool? (601corvair)
4. 06:42 AM - Re: Scotchbrite (lufthund)
5. 06:50 AM - Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? (Jim Hoak)
6. 07:05 AM - Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? (Larry McFarland)
7. 07:29 AM - Re: slim rivet tool? (N5SL)
8. 08:08 AM - Re: Mice and Storage (japhillipsga@aol.com)
9. 08:28 AM - Re: slim rivet tool? (Bob Unternaehrer)
10. 08:32 AM - Re: Mice and Storage (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: Scotchbrite (JOHN STARN)
12. 09:11 AM - Re: Mice and Storage (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
13. 09:34 AM - Re: Mice and Storage (Paul Mulwitz)
14. 11:25 AM - Mouse bait recipe (Zed Smith)
15. 11:39 AM - Re: Mice and Storage (Weston, Jim)
16. 12:35 PM - Re: Mice and Storage (Allen Ricks)
17. 12:53 PM - Re: slim rivet tool? ()
18. 01:42 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Michial Pedri)
19. 01:42 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Michial Pedri)
20. 04:00 PM - Jab 3300 cowl install on a 601XL (Mike)
21. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Scotchbrite (Lee Ross)
22. 04:17 PM - Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate: folow ups, (messydeer)
23. 04:19 PM - Re: Women Building Zeniths (Jennifer Moorhouse)
24. 07:59 PM - Removing Scratches & Nicks From Spars / Longerons (Dave VanLanen)
25. 08:36 PM - Re: Jab 3300 cowl install on a 601XL (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Joe Horton's vibration analysis data |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "G. Harris (Pumpkin Man)" <pumpkin_man@autoinsanity.com>
John Kearney's vibration analysis data is posted. It can be found here:
http://www.aeroinsanity.com/corvair/datalogger/?Vibrational_Analysis_Data:Joe_Horton
-GH
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Construction Manual ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com
Lynn
I understand fully. I love those catalogs too!
Carroll Jernigan
601XL Waiting on wing kit.
Message 3
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| Subject: | slim rivet tool? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair <airvair601@yahoo.com>
I've got a situation with a modification that's hard
to get even the hand rivet tool in. I can't get it
flat to pull the rivet down tightly for good joining.
Anyone know where to get a really slim tool? Or
anyway of pulling a few rivets in a tight space?
thanks phill
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "lufthund" <lufthund@enter.net>
My post on the green Scotchbrite subject was not intended as
criticism of any of the posts or to stifle any future
discussions the subject, rather it was an attempt to inject
a bit of humor into a somewhat tedious and perhaps over
scrutinized subject.
I did read each and every post on the Scotchbries thread ,as
I have been reading each and every post on all subjects for
the past bunch of years.
I am always interested in learning from the experiences and
expertise of others.
I intended and would have hoped that the smiley ( :-) ) I
placed at the end of the post would have graphically
conveyed to the reader this intention.
Apparently it was TOO subtle.
The Zenair news letter also covered this subject back a few
years ago.
When I built my 601HD (first flight in 1996)I used the
appropriate colored Scotchbrite pad. No deleterious affects
apparent anywhere on the plane now 10 years later.
So if any one felt put upon by my original Scotchbrite post
I heartily apologize and wish to you very a Happy upcoming
Saint Patricks day.:-):-):-):-)
Bob W 601HD
Bath Pa
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
Bob,
The rivnuts have always been "keyed" but most people don't have the tool
that cuts the little notch in the edge of the hole thaar the key fits into.
As Cy says the rivnuts are soft aluninum and screws are steel. Thats a
problem, especially if water gets in there. If you install them at the skin
over the fuel tank you just are taking your chances.
As for days at SnF, I always work with my volunteers to make sure they get
to attend the forums, events etc. that they want and work around their
schedule. As for preference, my main needs are Wed thru Sun. I'll have Monda
send you a "FORM" as soon as I hear from her! She's late geting going this
year. I'll keep in touch.
Jim H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Miller" <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
>
> Thanks Jim.
> I just found out that ACSpruce sells "keyed rivnuts", apparently to
> keep them from spinning out. What would you think of these for a
> place that needs rare accessing, mainly for inspections? Nut plates
> won't work in the forward top skin I'm working on. I'm sure I'll need
> to get to the fuel tank someday.
> Bob
> Say, what days do you think I'll be able to help you at Sun 'n Fun?
>
>
> On 2/9/06, Jim Hoak <planejim@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I agree with Cy, the washers under the rivnuts is not a good idea. In
>> fact
>> as I've said here before, after about 50 years of messing around this
>> stuff
>> I only used rivnuts for interior panels and things like that . In fact I
>> don't use them at all anymore. Go to the effort of installing "Nutplates"
>> (there are many different kinds for different applications) especially in
>> locations where you will be removing the screws or bolts on a regular
>> basis.
>> Since the introduction of 3/32" pull or blind rivets used for attachment,
>> it
>> is fairly easy to install nutplates. No need to use a rivet gun and
>> bucking
>> bar . Go for nutplates every time and leave those antique rivnuts in the
>> bin!
>>
>> Jim Hoak
>> do not archive
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Miller" <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?
>>
>>
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > I'm thinking of putting flat lock-washers on the backside of the
>> > rivnuts before rivetting them. Anybody have any experience with this?
>> > --
>> > Bob Miller
>> > 601HD N722Z
>> > Charlottesville, Virginia
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Bob Miller
> 601HD N722Z
> Charlottesville, Virginia
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Bob,
The forward top skin can be removed with J-nuts if you configure the
sheet metal somewhat like what I've done at the front sides. These
J-nuts are for
6-32 screws and cost about $10.00 for 50. I've had the front top skin
off a dozen times
for electrical work, transponder certification etc and believe these are
the way to go.
Nut plates are expensive and relatively difficult to replace if they go
bad. I can remove
or replace the forward top skin in about 20-minutes. The canopy only
needs to be up
when doing this. If you would like more information and part numbers for
these, just ask.
see links
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/uclips.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyframefrt.gif
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Bob Miller wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
>
>Thanks Jim.
>I just found out that ACSpruce sells "keyed rivnuts", apparently to
>keep them from spinning out. What would you think of these for a
>place that needs rare accessing, mainly for inspections? Nut plates
>won't work in the forward top skin I'm working on. I'm sure I'll need
>to get to the fuel tank someday.
>Bob
>Say, what days do you think I'll be able to help you at Sun 'n Fun?
>
>
>On 2/9/06, Jim Hoak <planejim@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>I agree with Cy, the washers under the rivnuts is not a good idea. In fact
>>as I've said here before, after about 50 years of messing around this stuff
>>I only used rivnuts for interior panels and things like that . In fact I
>>don't use them at all anymore. Go to the effort of installing "Nutplates"
>>(there are many different kinds for different applications) especially in
>>locations where you will be removing the screws or bolts on a regular basis.
>>Since the introduction of 3/32" pull or blind rivets used for attachment, it
>>is fairly easy to install nutplates. No need to use a rivet gun and bucking
>>bar . Go for nutplates every time and leave those antique rivnuts in the
>>bin!
>>
>>Jim Hoak
>>do not archive
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bob Miller" <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
>>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:33 PM
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Miller <tutuzulu@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>I'm thinking of putting flat lock-washers on the backside of the
>>>rivnuts before rivetting them. Anybody have any experience with this?
>>>--
>>>Bob Miller
>>>601HD N722Z
>>>Charlottesville, Virginia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Bob Miller
>601HD N722Z
>Charlottesville, Virginia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: slim rivet tool? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Phill:
A few options to consider:
*If it is only a few, you can use small bolts instead.
*I've ground away most of my hand-riveter for a few
tight spots that I just barely got away with.
*Rivet from the other side.
*Further modification of other parts to gain access.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Wig-Wag wiring complete and working.
--- 601corvair <airvair601@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Anyone know where to get a really slim tool? Or
> anyway of pulling a few rivets in a tight space?
> thanks phill
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Mice and Storage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com
Rolland, cats are okay, but I'd have to recommend snakes. Yes, nothing says mouse
protection like a couple big snakes. Best of Luck and let us hear how that
mouse/snake thing works out. Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 09:25:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mice and Storage
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Get a cat.
do not archive.
Paul
XL wings
>I am nearing completion of the right wing for my 701. I plan to
>store it on a shelf in my barn/workshop while working on the rest of
>the plane. There is a major mouse problem which has not responded
>well to traps and anticoagulant poison. I am considering the
>temporary closure of all wing openings with aluminum mesh and
>also using moth balls, perhaps loading the moth balls into a pvc
>tube with small holes and then placing the tube through the forward rib holes.
>
>Any suggestions? My concerns include naphtha ( moth balls) and corrosion.
>
>Roland Smith, Bennington, Vermont 701 from kit.
>
---
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: slim rivet tool? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
<<<<The standard rivets are 1/8" x 1/4" grip range stainless steel. If the
holes are worn over-sized, you can step up to the 5/32" x 1/4" grip range
stainless rivets. The proper tool is indeed the key to "setting" the
rivets properly. You need a thin profile riveter like the Arrow RL-100
riveter. If you can't find one locally, you might check on the net.>>>
This is from the challenger list with similiar problem. Mike Harrison
posted it and his address is below. Bob U.
<<<<Mike Harrison
Skyes the Limit!
16833 N. 40th Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85053
Phone: (602) 938-9735
e-mail: harrison3@cox.net
Website: www.4airsports.com>>>>>>
----- Original Message -----
From: "601corvair" <airvair601@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 8:02 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: slim rivet tool?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair <airvair601@yahoo.com>
>
> I've got a situation with a modification that's hard
> to get even the hand rivet tool in. I can't get it
> flat to pull the rivet down tightly for good joining.
> Anyone know where to get a really slim tool? Or
> anyway of pulling a few rivets in a tight space?
> thanks phill
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Mice and Storage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
And snakes are perfect for getting inside all those lightening
holes!...Unless they grow really big while hunting inside your wing...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
japhillipsga@aol.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mice and Storage
--> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com
Rolland, cats are okay, but I'd have to recommend snakes. Yes, nothing
says mouse protection like a couple big snakes. Best of Luck and let us
hear how that mouse/snake thing works out. Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 09:25:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mice and Storage
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Get a cat.
do not archive.
Paul
XL wings
>I am nearing completion of the right wing for my 701. I plan to
>store it on a shelf in my barn/workshop while working on the rest of
>the plane. There is a major mouse problem which has not responded
>well to traps and anticoagulant poison. I am considering the
>temporary closure of all wing openings with aluminum mesh and also
>using moth balls, perhaps loading the moth balls into a pvc tube with
>small holes and then placing the tube through the forward rib holes.
>
>Any suggestions? My concerns include naphtha ( moth balls) and
corrosion.
>
>Roland Smith, Bennington, Vermont 701 from kit.
>
---
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Scotchbrite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Please, don't back off now. The lists are also to lighten us up, push us
onward and get us in the air. Do Not Archive & trimming also helps.
Below is a copy of Matt instructions to use the list(s). KABONG 8*)
List Policy Statement
The purpose of the List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these
goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List.
To "foster camaraderie among its members" is IMNSHO (In My Not So Humble
Opinion) the most important of all, if you act in manner to do this
everything else is automatically included.
----- Original Message -----
From: "lufthund" <lufthund@enter.net>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
> My post on the green Scotchbrite subject was not intended as
> criticism of any of the posts or to stifle any future
> discussions the subject, rather it was an attempt to inject
> a bit of humor into a somewhat tedious and perhaps over
> scrutinized subject.
> Apparently it was TOO subtle.
> So if any one felt put upon by my original Scotchbrite post
> I heartily apologize and wish to you very a Happy upcoming
> Saint Patricks day.:-):-):-):-)
>
> Bob W 601HD
> Bath Pa
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Mice and Storage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
<<<< Rolland, cats are okay, but I'd have to recommend snakes. Yes, nothing
says mouse protection like a couple big snakes. >>>>
LOLOL !!! A couple of big snakes says a whole lot more than MOUSE
protection!
Dave
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Mice and Storage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Snakes are OK in the Summer, but when it gets cold up North, you can
only use them for windshield wipers.
do not archive
At 08:03 AM 2/13/2006, you wrote:
>cats are okay, but I'd have to recommend snakes. Yes, nothing says
>mouse protection like a couple big snakes. Best of Luck and let us
>hear how that mouse/snake thing works out.
--
Message 14
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| Subject: | Mouse bait recipe |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Soak a ScotchBrite pad with melted cheese and use it as mouse bait.
If you don't have any pads left, the substitute part number is a Big Mac.
do not archive
Zed/701/R912/.....701 cowling...."outside" or "inside"? Various photos and Roger
at ZAC indicate either way is okay.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Mice and Storage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" <Jim.Weston@delta.com>
Make sure it's a green one.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mice and Storage
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Get a cat.
do not archive.
Paul
XL wings
>I am nearing completion of the right wing for my 701. I plan to
>store it on a shelf in my barn/workshop while working on the rest of
>the plane. There is a major mouse problem which has not responded
>well to traps and anticoagulant poison. I am considering the
>temporary closure of all wing openings with aluminum mesh and also
>using moth balls, perhaps loading the moth balls into a pvc tube with
>small holes and then placing the tube through the forward rib holes.
>
>Any suggestions? My concerns include naphtha ( moth balls) and
corrosion.
>
>Roland Smith, Bennington, Vermont 701 from kit.
>
---
Message 16
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| Subject: | Mice and Storage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
A serious suggestion...
If space is not an issue, I would build a large "box" that fits
your parts out of galvanized wire mesh. Get the stuff that's heavier
than screen door material, but smaller openings than poultry netting
(chicken wire). It would keep the mice out, and the cats/snakes, etc. in.
You can weave the pieces togther with fencing wire. You should be able to
buy it at a farm store. I'm not sure if the Home Depot/Lowes places carry
it or not. It comes in big heavy rolls.
Just make sure you don't set the parts directly on the mesh, as it's
generally made out of iron, and that gets back to the whole corrosion issue.
Allen Ricks
Beaverton, OR
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: slim rivet tool? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Any chance of using solid rivets with a squeezer?
Ed
> anyway of pulling a few rivets in a tight space?
> thanks phill
Message 18
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| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri <pedfly60@yahoo.com>
Hi Allen,
Just wondering how much progress and the experiences (negative Or positive) you
have with the quick build kit? I hope to purchase the kit in the next few
months and am still a little nervous about trying to build my own plane (zero
experience with building anything not to mention an airplane) especially wiring,
engine installation etc. Thank you for any advice or comments you have to
offer.
Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV
Allen Ricks <allenricks@verizon.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks"
Mike,
I think I'm the only one on the list that has the new quick build kit.
There are three others on the West coast that have one, but I have not seen
responses on the list.
I received my QB kit just before Christmas, and have had little time to do
anything with it due to the holidays, kids out of school, bad weather (still
rearranging the garage, as I was not sure the fuselage would fit where I
planned It did) and some other family stuff.
I have not actually seen up close what the standard kit looks like when it
arrives, but from the pictures Ive seen, my kit has a LOT of the work done.
I have been told that about 9500 of the 10,000 holes have been drilled, so
that eliminates a lot of the room for error. A bunch of the holes that are
left to drill are in the rudder kit, which I have already done. (I even
drilled two holes in the wrong place, but a quick e-mail to Nicholas H. let
me know it was not a fatal error).
For those of you with the standard kit, my kit arrived with the fuselage
essentially ready to put on the gear. All drilled, corrosion proofed,
riveted etc. I mean the thing is pretty much done to the point that the
engine could be hung on the firewall, as the studs for the mount are in
place. The leather interior (came with it) is ready to go in. I can
already sit in it and make engine noise, but I wont until its on the gear.
Think that would save any time? ;)
Most, though not all of the remaining pieces have holes drilled in them, so
if they dont line up, youre putting the part in wrong and you need to
check again. If it fits, its probably right, and ready for a quick brush
of Core-tec, cleco, and rivet. The wings were put together on a jig,
drilled, clecod, and taken apart again for shipping, so they are much more
finished than the regular kit as well.
The above being true, there is still a whole lot of work left. I will need
to corrosion proof the wing parts and put them together. Lots of wiring,
plumbing, avionics (what I can afford) engine installation etc. to do. It
also appears that many of the parts have been zinc chromate coated on the
mating surfaces too, so Im not sure how much corrosion proofing I will have
to do.
I know that some feel the QB kit is not a real kit plane building
experience. There are plans builders that think the standard kit is not a
real building experience either. Im 40, and have two kids. I want to
build the plane in my lifetime without having my kids hate me or my wife
divorce me, so I went with the QB kit. Hey, the difference for the QB is a
LOT cheaper than a divorce. I figure however long it takes me to build the
plane, I will be flying YEARS ahead of where I would with the standard kit.
Yes, you can buy a plane to fly right away for less money. It will however,
be MUCH more expensive to fly and maintain. Ive wanted to build since I
was about three, and have been collecting kit aviation magazines since I was
very young. All forms of building, and aircraft rental or ownership for
that matter, have trade offs. The QB kit seemed the best choice for me.
By the way, the quality of the parts and building appears to be excellent.
The rivet lines and spacing are very uniform. Most of the standard builders
would hate me if they saw the QB kit and realized the time it would save.
That being said, it did cost more.
Regards,
Allen Ricks
Beaverton (Portland) OR.
Quick Build link:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-qbk.html
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri
I have read several posts that indicate the building process is much more
complicated and time consuming than what is advertised by zenith and this
really scares me away from the "kit build process." About the three years
ago I purchased the rudder for the 701 and was able to finish it with no
major problems in about 25 hours, but since then I have been on a three year
deployment with the military.
I am curious to know how much of the "new builder mistakes and
frustrations" might be aleviated by the quick build 601 xl kit? I am a new
and timid builder with little and long ago builder experience.
Any advice offered would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Mike Pedri,
US Army
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
Message 19
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| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri <pedfly60@yahoo.com>
Hi Allen,
Just wondering how much progress and the experiences (negative Or positive) you
have with the quick build kit? I hope to purchase the kit in the next few
months and am still a little nervous about trying to build my own plane (zero
experience with building anything not to mention an airplane) especially wiring,
engine installation etc. Thank you for any advice or comments you have to
offer.
Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV
Allen Ricks <allenricks@verizon.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks"
Mike,
I think I'm the only one on the list that has the new quick build kit.
There are three others on the West coast that have one, but I have not seen
responses on the list.
I received my QB kit just before Christmas, and have had little time to do
anything with it due to the holidays, kids out of school, bad weather (still
rearranging the garage, as I was not sure the fuselage would fit where I
planned It did) and some other family stuff.
I have not actually seen up close what the standard kit looks like when it
arrives, but from the pictures Ive seen, my kit has a LOT of the work done.
I have been told that about 9500 of the 10,000 holes have been drilled, so
that eliminates a lot of the room for error. A bunch of the holes that are
left to drill are in the rudder kit, which I have already done. (I even
drilled two holes in the wrong place, but a quick e-mail to Nicholas H. let
me know it was not a fatal error).
For those of you with the standard kit, my kit arrived with the fuselage
essentially ready to put on the gear. All drilled, corrosion proofed,
riveted etc. I mean the thing is pretty much done to the point that the
engine could be hung on the firewall, as the studs for the mount are in
place. The leather interior (came with it) is ready to go in. I can
already sit in it and make engine noise, but I wont until its on the gear.
Think that would save any time? ;)
Most, though not all of the remaining pieces have holes drilled in them, so
if they dont line up, youre putting the part in wrong and you need to
check again. If it fits, its probably right, and ready for a quick brush
of Core-tec, cleco, and rivet. The wings were put together on a jig,
drilled, clecod, and taken apart again for shipping, so they are much more
finished than the regular kit as well.
The above being true, there is still a whole lot of work left. I will need
to corrosion proof the wing parts and put them together. Lots of wiring,
plumbing, avionics (what I can afford) engine installation etc. to do. It
also appears that many of the parts have been zinc chromate coated on the
mating surfaces too, so Im not sure how much corrosion proofing I will have
to do.
I know that some feel the QB kit is not a real kit plane building
experience. There are plans builders that think the standard kit is not a
real building experience either. Im 40, and have two kids. I want to
build the plane in my lifetime without having my kids hate me or my wife
divorce me, so I went with the QB kit. Hey, the difference for the QB is a
LOT cheaper than a divorce. I figure however long it takes me to build the
plane, I will be flying YEARS ahead of where I would with the standard kit.
Yes, you can buy a plane to fly right away for less money. It will however,
be MUCH more expensive to fly and maintain. Ive wanted to build since I
was about three, and have been collecting kit aviation magazines since I was
very young. All forms of building, and aircraft rental or ownership for
that matter, have trade offs. The QB kit seemed the best choice for me.
By the way, the quality of the parts and building appears to be excellent.
The rivet lines and spacing are very uniform. Most of the standard builders
would hate me if they saw the QB kit and realized the time it would save.
That being said, it did cost more.
Regards,
Allen Ricks
Beaverton (Portland) OR.
Quick Build link:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-qbk.html
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri
I have read several posts that indicate the building process is much more
complicated and time consuming than what is advertised by zenith and this
really scares me away from the "kit build process." About the three years
ago I purchased the rudder for the 701 and was able to finish it with no
major problems in about 25 hours, but since then I have been on a three year
deployment with the military.
I am curious to know how much of the "new builder mistakes and
frustrations" might be aleviated by the quick build 601 xl kit? I am a new
and timid builder with little and long ago builder experience.
Any advice offered would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Mike Pedri,
US Army
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Jab 3300 cowl install on a 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike <rsq2424@yahoo.com>
To install the cowl on a 601XL, the Jab instructions say to fabricate a 9" wood
"donut", then cut it in half, and attach one half to the lower cowl at the front,
and the other on the upper cowl. Presumably, this is to allow it to be alinged
on the prop shaft extension. However:
1. Where exactly on the cowls do each of the donut halves attach? Seems to be
that if or both halves is off center (up, down, or sideways), even a little
bit, that would throw everything off and defeat the purpose of the donut to begin
with.
2. The front of both cowl pieces is flat, but doesn't have a cutout for the
prop spinner. This cutout would need to be made prior to using the donut technique,
but how do you know exactly where to place the hole, and how large? And
if you have to cut the hole ahead of time, wouldn't that serve the same purpose
of the donut?
Overall, I'm foggy on the whole process even after studying the instructions, so
if someone else has already been there, I would love to hear from them. Also,
the folks at Jab are also welcome to chime in, as your answer to this post in
the archives could be helpful to someone else in the future.
Mike F.
601XL Jab 3300
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lee Ross" <LRoss@cngmail.com>
Yes my statement on brooms and dishwashing gloves was in no way intended as
a flame on the original post or the importance of the discussion I was just
trying to lighten the mood. If I offended in anyway I'm truly sorry
Lee Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Please, don't back off now. The lists are also to lighten us up, push us
onward and get us in the air. Do Not Archive & trimming also helps.
Below is a copy of Matt instructions to use the list(s). KABONG 8*)
List Policy Statement
The purpose of the List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these
goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List.
To "foster camaraderie among its members" is IMNSHO (In My Not So Humble
Opinion) the most important of all, if you act in manner to do this
everything else is automatically included.
----- Original Message -----
From: "lufthund" <lufthund@enter.net>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
> My post on the green Scotchbrite subject was not intended as
> criticism of any of the posts or to stifle any future
> discussions the subject, rather it was an attempt to inject
> a bit of humor into a somewhat tedious and perhaps over
> scrutinized subject.
> Apparently it was TOO subtle.
> So if any one felt put upon by my original Scotchbrite post
> I heartily apologize and wish to you very a Happy upcoming
> Saint Patricks day.:-):-):-):-)
>
> Bob W 601HD
> Bath Pa
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Prevention: Alodine and Zinc Chromate: folow |
ups,
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
Here's some correspondence I've had with Sheldon Dean regarding a couple other
quetions I had. It reads top to bottom.
Question
Sheldon:
We talked for a bit last Monday about the water stains I have on my 6061 here in
Bellingham, WA.
I used a Blendex drum (like scotchbrite) to sand off the corroded areas. One or
two light passes makes it nice and smooth. I cant feel any difference between
this and the non-corroded areas. But there is a dark stain remaining that can
be easily seen from across the room. Sanding it again with a little more pressure
makes it visible only at certain angles of reflection from a couple feet
away. More and more pressure is required to remove it completely.
Im hoping you will say this dark stain that is present after one or two abrasive
passes and which appears after removing the whitish corrosion will have no physical
effect at all, only cosmetic. Aluminum with this dark stain is safe to
conversion coat and/or prime. Is this the hydrogen in the aluminum you talked
about that is hard to get rid of but effects only the appearance?
I also may not have mentioned cardboard. Theres a few sheets of aluminum that have
a very light corrugated stain on them from rain soaked cardboard. It comes
off real easy. Not near as tenacious as the water stain. Any concern here?
Thanks again for your time and knowledge.
Dan Morehouse
Reply
Dan,
The white to gray powdery water stains are severe stains. The black color you
see under the gray white powder is a collection of tiny (smaller than the wavelength
of light) metallic particles. These are usually embedded in an oxide layer
that makes them hard to remove. The black color occurs whenever small metallic
particles are present and are commonly seen when you rub an aluminum surface
with a wet cloth. I suggest changing the orientation of your drum and see
if that helps to remove them. Ultimately they will disappear as you have discovered.
The dark stain is an integral part of the stain. Actually, when a
water stain first appears it looks black. As the process continues the white
powdery material deposits on top of the black layer which is why you see it after
you remove the powdery material. The black material increases in thickness
as the stain process continues which is why it is more difficult to remove.
The corrosion process that causes the stain does put tiny quantities on hydrogen
into the metal surface, and this hydrogen can affect the way the metal responds
to chemical etching processes. However, it does not affect the mechanical
properties significantly. It would not affect the development of a conversion
coating such as Alodine, nor does it bother primers. The stain that occurred
with the cardboard present is different because the cardboard allows oxygen
to permeate through it, and that maintains the passivity of the aluminum. If
you remove it mechanically it is gone. I suspect that there would not be any
hydrogen associated with it.
Good luck,
Sheldon
Question
Sheldon:
I'll try orienting the drum to rotate in different directions if I want to get
more of it off. But it sounds like taking off the stain only until 'smooth' would
be okay for either an interior surface that has Alodine and/or primer for
a finish. If I left that for the exterior, I'd prime and paint over it, or spend
more time with the drum and remove it completely. Fortunately, most of the
sheets do not have water stains on both sides. So I may be able to still get a
polished bare aluminum finish.
Does this sound okay?
Thanks again for your help,
Dan
Reply
Dan,
Sounds OK to me.
Sheldon
(End of correspondence)
I've just found out you can post using the forum format, as I'm doing now. I thought
I was supposed to be notified when my emailed pics were posted. But since
I haven't heard, I assume they have not or won't be posted. When I get more
time, I'll see about posting them via the forum.
Ciao!
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11958#11958
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Women Building Zeniths |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jennifer Moorhouse <finesse152@yahoo.com>
In reply to Robert Sceppa's question of women building Zeniths, I don't know how
many of us there are, but I'm another woman who just started building a 601
XL.
I've been kind of lurking the list for a little while since finding out about
it from a fellow builder and list member. I built my rudder in my living room
a couple of years ago and was postponed building more until moving to a new area
of the state, getting married, buying a house, and having a baby. I started
trying to scratch build more of the empennage while I was pregnant, but, even
with help, couldn't get long pieces of metal, spars and doublers, bent on my
home-made brake without them coming out bowed. I decided to save a bit of money
up and just placed an order for the tail kit. It's a relief really, knowing
the parts will be made correctly and having the skins pre-drilled. I wish I had
enough cash to buy the whole kit or even someone else's partially built kit,
but I don't.
My husband is a pilot as well, so I'm not totally alone building our plane, but
I work fewer hours and have more time for the project. I hope to have it completed
and flying before our daughter is old enough for her license. Until then,
we'll stay current in a rented 152, 172, or Diamond Katana.
Jennifer Moorhouse
do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Removing Scratches & Nicks From Spars / Longerons |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Can anyone instruct me on the correct procedure for removing scratches and
nicks from spars and longerons? I checked the archives, but did not find
anything. The ZAC Construction Manual simply states that scratches and
nicks must be removed from spars and longerons by filing and sanding
lengthwise. What type(s) of file or sandpaper should be used, and what is
the technique? For example, does the entire scratch need to be completely
eliminated, or is it sufficient to remove the sharp edges of the scratch,
where a depression may remain if it is a deeper scratch?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601 XL - elevator
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Jab 3300 cowl install on a 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Mike, it's been a year or so, but I recall once I duct taped the wood circle
to the cowl where the rear of the spinner cone would go I drilled two holes
through the wood through the fiberglass of the bottom cowl and attached with
small dome head bolts and nuts. After fitting all together and removing I used
fiberglass resin and some cloth on the inside to cover the holes. Been a while
ago so my memory is fading. Best of luck, Bill N505WP 601XL-3300
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