---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/14/06: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:41 AM - Re: Removing Scratches & Nicks From Spars / Longerons (Hunt Malcolm) 2. 04:12 AM - Re: Mice and Storage (Tommy Walker) 3. 07:10 AM - Re: Mice and Storage (JOHN STARN) 4. 07:22 AM - Re: slim rivet tool? (Jeffrey A Beachy) 5. 09:00 AM - Re: Scotchbrite (Randy L. Thwing) 6. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Scotchbrite (crvsecretary@aol.com) 7. 12:11 PM - Decal Paper (Beckman, Rick) 8. 12:26 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 02/13/06 (alex trent) 9. 01:38 PM - 601 XL - CZA quickbuild kit - flap switch (AndrewC) 10. 04:28 PM - Return Parts (Dave VanLanen) 11. 05:15 PM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Allen Ricks) 12. 05:22 PM - Re: 601 XL - CZA quickbuild kit - flap switch (David X) 13. 05:35 PM - Re: Return Parts (Robin Bellach) 14. 06:15 PM - Re: Rotx 912s Choke (george may) 15. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Rotx 912s Choke (Zodie Rocket) 16. 07:07 PM - Re: Re: Scotchbrite (Gary A. Boothe) 17. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Rotx 912s Choke (Mike Sinclair) 18. 08:07 PM - Re: slim rivet tool (Dave and Pam Fisher) 19. 09:59 PM - Re: Crosswind - The Last Flight (NYTerminat@aol.com) 20. 10:14 PM - Re: slim rivet tool (Ron Lendon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Removing Scratches & Nicks From Spars / Longerons From: "Hunt Malcolm" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" How about green scotchbrite!!!! Sorry Dave, my inspector says that in parts taking stresses polish out the scratch completely. I use silicon carbide paper (wet n dry) used dry and depending on depth of scratch say start with 120 grit and work through and finish with 400 grit, sand with the grain. Use a flat hardwood block under the paper where possible. Mainly found scratches on extruded angle. Hope this helps Malcolm Hunt CH601XL builder in England -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave VanLanen Sent: 14 February 2006 03:54 Subject: Zenith-List: Removing Scratches & Nicks From Spars / Longerons --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" Can anyone instruct me on the correct procedure for removing scratches and nicks from spars and longerons? I checked the archives, but did not find anything. The ZAC Construction Manual simply states that scratches and nicks must be removed from spars and longerons by filing and sanding lengthwise. What type(s) of file or sandpaper should be used, and what is the technique? For example, does the entire scratch need to be completely eliminated, or is it sufficient to remove the sharp edges of the scratch, where a depression may remain if it is a deeper scratch? Thanks, Dave Van Lanen Madison, WI 601 XL - elevator Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a source external to Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. This email should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended recipient, nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is not an original intended recipient. If you have received this email by mistake please notify us by emailing the sender, and then delete the email and any copies from your system. Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders own and not made on behalf of Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:55 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mice and Storage --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > Snakes are OK in the Summer, but when it gets cold up North, you can only use them for windshield wipers. do not archive In the winter in the deep South, we use them for Windshield Vipers Oh well, it sounded funny when I thought of it. Tommy Walker in Lower Slobovia Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:32 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mice and Storage --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" Yaw, here in Wisconsin, dats vot we use dem fur too. Could not resist...sorry...KABONG Do Not Archive Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mice and Storage > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > Snakes are OK in the Summer, > but when it gets cold up North, you can only use them for windshield > wipers. > do not archive > > In the winter in the deep South, we use them for Windshield Vipers > Oh well, it sounded funny when I thought of it. > > Tommy Walker in Lower Slobovia > Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: slim rivet tool? From: Jeffrey A Beachy --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy I purchased a hand riveter from Harbor Freight Tools for less than ten dollars, then used a grinder on it until I reduced the riveter head to not much larger than the rivet nosepiece. I'm certain it won't last very long, but it has saved me on several occasions so far. Jeff ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:09 AM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" Hello Listers: If it is unacceptable to allow iron rich Scotchbrite (if there is such a thing) near aluminum, why are we permitted to use drill bits, shears, snips & files, most of which are iron based? Regards, Randy, Las Vegas do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:47 AM PST US From: crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite --> Zenith-List message posted by: crvsecretary@aol.com Hi Randy: Abrasives are wonderful things. Think of a grinding wheel: the cutting action is created not by the texture of the surface but by the 'cracking' of the crystals that the wheel is made of, thus exposing new, sharp cutting edges. If the wheel is too hard, the crystals will not crack and it will load up; if too soft it will turn to dust as you grind. OK, so now back to the Dreaded Silicon Carbide Schtchbrite...or any other silicon carbide abrasive product (like wet & dry 'sandpaper'). Some of the abrasive grit will fracture from the abrasive cloth (or pad) and will be left behind on the work. This is the bad thing we try to avoid - dissimiliar metals and corrosion. Cutting tools like drill bits, shears, files etc. leave no residue. Great question !!!!! Regards, Tracy Smith N458XL (reserved) do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Randy L. Thwing Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:56:22 -0800 Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" Hello Listers: If it is unacceptable to allow iron rich Scotchbrite (if there is such a thing) near aluminum, why are we permitted to use drill bits, shears, snips & files, most of which are iron based? Regards, Randy, Las Vegas do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:31 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Decal Paper From: "Beckman, Rick" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" 'Afternoon All, Recently, someone had some decal paper to turn loose of. Please contact me off list and we'll see if we can work something out. rick.beckman@atk.com Thanks. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:02 PM PST US From: alex trent Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 02/13/06 --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent > >Time: 06:50:07 AM PST US >From: "Jim Hoak" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts? > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" > >Bob, > >The rivnuts have always been "keyed" but most people don't have the tool >that cuts the little notch in the edge of the hole thaar the key fits into. >As Cy says the rivnuts are soft aluninum and screws are steel. Thats a > > Rivnuts *are* available in "steel". However they do tend to come loose at the most awkward times no matter what the material. They are also available unkeyed alex ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:59 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL - CZA quickbuild kit - flap switch From: "AndrewC" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AndrewC" G-DROO is a quickbuild 601 XL from the CZAW factory from around July 2004. Last weekend the plane took its first test flight and for the first time the flaps decided to fail. The test pilot made a routine flapless landing but the result is that after investigation it appears that the circuit breaker tripped and would not reset. An examination of the flap motor and actuator rod assembly showed that the CZAW kit has a metal flap on the actuator rod - presumably for a RAC flap indicator servo mechanism to attach - and that the metal flap had been impacting on the lower limit flap microswitch body when the flap was fully retracted. Over time this impacting appears basically to have damaged the microswitch body, resulting in a short circuit and the ensuing circuit breaker trip (the switch fell apart when removed from the plane). A new switch has been obtained and I intend to cut off the metal flap (since I don't have a flap indicator) so that fouling cannot occur. It may be that a readjustment of the microswitches on their mounting rod would remedy it too, but I'm happy to lose the weight of that metal flap... All I'd suggest is that if you have a CZAW quick build XL from around then you might want to check the state of the flap lower limit microswitch to see whether, at full up flap, there is any impacting on the microswitch body. It's probably just mine that this has happened with, but thought it better to share it. Andrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12171#12171 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:39 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Return Parts --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" We found a couple of incorrect parts when we inventoried our kit. ZAC is sending us the correct parts. They asked in their response to please ship the unusable parts back to them. Is that normal operating procedure? Do we pay the shipping? Thanks, Dave Van Lanen Madison, WI 601 XL - stabilizer Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:01 PM PST US From: "Allen Ricks" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" Hi Mike, Unfortunately progress has been slower than I would like due to a combination of holiday, family and weather issues. Granddad (95) broke a leg (He's doing better now, he just asked my dad to refill his Viagra Rx. You go Granddad). I also needed to create some more work space in my garage, as all of the quick build kit takes up a LOT of space. It rained for more than a month straight here in Oregon, and I needed a couple of good days that I was not working to pull stuff out and re-arrange. I did that last week, and have a few more things to re-arrange this week. I am also realizing that the quick build is done to a point that I need to figure out when to have things inspected before closing, as that will occurr quickly. I can sit in my fusalage on my leather seats and make airplane noises already. The only flat pieces of metal I can find are the main wing skins, and they're supposed to be flat when you put them on. Many parts are at least partially pre-riveted. The fuselage is pretty much done. Everything seems to have holes in it, and if it does not have rivets already, there are pre-aligned and drilled holes with zinc chromate on most of the mating surfaces. On the rudder kit, everything went quickly for me but the hole location, so the rest of the kit should go relatively quickly. I will say that there are a lot of parts to the kit, and getting them all sorted out and stored was a project in and of itself. For me the quick build took the project from potentially overwhelming to something that seems really doable, especially now that I see just how complete the kit is. Hopefully by the end of this week, I'll be clecoing the wing parts, and ready for visitors that are interested in looking at the kit. P.S. Don't underestimate the time it takes to unpack/catalog/store everything if you get the complete kit all at once. It's a project in and of itself. I had to build some additional shelving, and I still don't have everything stored as I would like. I envy those with barns, even if the barns have mice in them. Allen Ricks Beaverton, OR -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michial Pedri Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 1:38 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri Hi Allen, Just wondering how much progress and the experiences (negative Or positive) you have with the quick build kit? I hope to purchase the kit in the next few months and am still a little nervous about trying to build my own plane (zero experience with building anything not to mention an airplane) especially wiring, engine installation etc. Thank you for any advice or comments you have to offer. Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV Allen Ricks wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL - CZA quickbuild kit - flap switch From: "David X" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" Andrew, thank you very much for the details. It's something I'll look for on my own aircraft. -------- Zodiac XL - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12231#12231 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:02 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Return Parts --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> I'd say eat the shipping charge. The service from ZAC in such situations is very good, and it's not a big deal. Possibly later you will make a mistake shaping or drilling a small part and ZAC will probably send you one no charge. So don't throw any corners into the smooth round equation of what goes around comes around, just skew the circle in your favor and don't quibble over the shipping. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave VanLanen" Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Return Parts > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > > We found a couple of incorrect parts when we inventoried our kit. ZAC is > sending us the correct parts. They asked in their response to please ship > the unusable parts back to them. Is that normal operating procedure? Do > we > pay the shipping? > > Thanks, > Dave Van Lanen > Madison, WI > 601 XL - stabilizer ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:24 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rotx 912s Choke --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" List-- I just finished installing the choke cables ,for the second time, trying to get them to require a little less force when engaging the choke, without much success. The springs appear to be very strong. It seems to take a significant force to fully open the choke, and yet if I let go of the knob it closes fully. A question for those that have installed and/or are flying with the 912s. Does this sound correct? And if so, how do you hold the choke open with one hand, set the throttle and trun the key to start the engine all at the same time. Thanks George My 601XL 912s > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:02 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Rotx 912s Choke --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" BEFORE you consider changing the spring on a Rotax Motor read this !!! http://www.ch601.org/stories/croke_crash.htm Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" List-- I just finished installing the choke cables ,for the second time, trying to get them to require a little less force when engaging the choke, without much success. The springs appear to be very strong. It seems to take a significant force to fully open the choke, and yet if I let go of the knob it closes fully. A question for those that have installed and/or are flying with the 912s. Does this sound correct? And if so, how do you hold the choke open with one hand, set the throttle and trun the key to start the engine all at the same time. Thanks George My 601XL 912s > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement -- 2/13/2006 -- 2/13/2006 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:47 PM PST US From: "Gary A. Boothe" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe" That's why I use tools only from China. They have a minimum amount of iron! Gary Boothe, Cool, Ca 601HDSTD, WW Corvair Conv. - complete Tail Group - complete. Working on Wings... DEFINITELY DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy L. Thwing" Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > > Hello Listers: > If it is unacceptable to allow iron rich Scotchbrite (if there is such > a > thing) near aluminum, why are we permitted to use drill bits, shears, > snips > & files, most of which are iron based? > > Regards, > > Randy, Las Vegas do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:38 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rotx 912s Choke --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair George Sounds like you've got your choke set pretty smooth if it closes on it's own. I have to push mine in, though with not much pressure. As for the throttle, it needs to be closed (choke is ineffective at any other position) and if you have the friction block set-up properly adjusted (providing that is how your throttle is rigged), it's pretty much hands off. As the engine starts to run smoothly the choke needs to go in anyway. Two hands are plenty sufficient to the task. On mine I have found that after the first cold start of the day, the choke has been unnecessary for subsequent starts, even after a few hours. Mike Sinclair N701TD george may wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" > > List-- > I just finished > installing the choke cables ,for the second time, trying to get them to > require a little > less force when engaging the choke, without much success. The springs appear > to be very strong. > It seems to take a significant force to fully open the choke, and yet if I > let go of the knob it > closes fully. > > A question for those that have installed and/or are flying with the 912s. > > Does this sound correct? And if so, how do you hold the choke open with > one hand, set the throttle and trun the key to start the engine all at the > same time. > > Thanks > George My > 601XL 912s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:33 PM PST US From: Dave and Pam Fisher Subject: Zenith-List: Re: slim rivet tool --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dave and Pam Fisher Hi Phill& list, I don't recall where I picked up the idea for riveting in tight spots, but I made a small attachment for my rivet tool that works slick for tight corners. It's just a cylindrical piece of metal 3/8 inch in diameter about 3/8 of an inch long with one end beveled at 30 degrees. Dimple the square cut end like the nose piece of your riveter and drill a hole for rivet stems through the center of it. Slip the thing over the rivet stem before you pull it and you will be able to position your puller at an angle and still get a straight pull on the rivet. Have fun!! Dave, 701 with A80-8 Continental ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:15 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Crosswind - The Last Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com Dave Were you able to figure out what went wrong? Bob Spudis Do not archive In a message dated 1/18/2006 11:36:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, NYTerminat@aol.com writes: Dave' I am so sorry for your engine out. Praise the Lord that you are safe. Thank you for your testimony as I too am a Christian. Lord willing I will be making my 1st flight in N701ZX a 701 with a Rotax 912S tomorrow. What was the engine out glide like? Did you have much range? Could it have been icing? God Bless Bob Spudis ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:04 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: slim rivet tool From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" I don't quite understand what you mean. Got any pictures? -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12278#12278