Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:54 AM - Any Zodiac XL's in Las Vagas Area? (Chris sinfield)
2. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Rotx 912s Choke (Trevor Page)
3. 06:09 AM - Re: Return Parts (N5SL)
4. 07:07 AM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Michial Pedri)
5. 07:07 AM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Michial Pedri)
6. 07:07 AM - Re: quick build 601 XL (long) (Michial Pedri)
7. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Scotchbrite (Garrou, Douglas)
8. 09:03 AM - Top cover fastener receptacles (Brandon Tucker)
9. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Scotchbrite (Randy L. Thwing)
10. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Scotchbrite (crvsecretary@aol.com)
11. 10:05 AM - Re: Top cover fastener receptacles (Larry McFarland)
12. 10:22 AM - Re: Re: Scotchbrite (B Johnson)
13. 11:35 AM - Ailerons 601XL (CoJo331@aol.com)
14. 11:54 AM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (Clyde Barcus)
15. 12:18 PM - DEAD(?) HORSE !!! (Zed Smith)
16. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Rotx 912s Choke (george may)
17. 02:23 PM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (nhulin)
18. 02:55 PM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (Paul Mulwitz)
19. 03:31 PM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (Jeffrey J Paris)
20. 04:34 PM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (Clyde Barcus)
21. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: Rotx 912s Choke (Gary Gower)
22. 04:56 PM - Rivets - Quantity and Price: (J S)
23. 05:22 PM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (cgalley)
24. 05:25 PM - Re: slim or offset rivet tool (Dave and Pam Fisher)
25. 06:55 PM - Re: slim or offset rivet tool (Ron Lendon)
26. 07:34 PM - Re: Rivets : (This is how many) (N5SL)
27. 08:13 PM - Re: Rivets : (This is how many) (Zodie Rocket)
28. 08:13 PM - Rivets : (This is how many) (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
29. 08:22 PM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (Gary Gower)
30. 08:37 PM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (Zodie Rocket)
31. 08:39 PM - Crosswind - The First Step Toward the Next Flight (Dave Zilz)
32. 08:40 PM - Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? (William Murray)
33. 08:56 PM - Fw: CH701 Steering Rod Boots (Jim Fosse)
34. 09:51 PM - Re: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Any Zodiac XL's in Las Vagas Area? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Chris sinfield <chris_sinfield@yahoo.com>
Hi all
I am arriving in Las Vagas just for a day on Monday 20th Feb.. Are there any Zodiac
XL in the area flying/ Completed / under way for a look see??
Chris
Down Under??
Do Not Archive
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotx 912s Choke |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
George, on mine I have to hold the choke handle out with my hand for
a couple of minutes while it warms up. The springs are very strong.
But whatever you do, don't EVER change them for something less
strong, same thing (especially) for the throttle springs!!
I do have a choke "lever" in my spare parts kit that could be
installed as an alternative. The lever is like this one:
http://mikes.automated-shops.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?
p_prodid=290&p_catid
This choke activator stays put when you activate it, flip it off when
you're done.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Feb 14, 2006, at 9:12 PM, george may wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
>
>
> List--
> I just finished
> installing the choke cables ,for the second time, trying to get
> them to
> require a little
> less force when engaging the choke, without much success. The
> springs appear
> to be very strong.
> It seems to take a significant force to fully open the choke, and
> yet if I
> let go of the knob it
> closes fully.
>
> A question for those that have installed and/or are flying with the
> 912s.
>
> Does this sound correct? And if so, how do you hold the choke open
> with
> one hand, set the throttle and trun the key to start the engine all
> at the
> same time.
>
> Thanks
> George My
> 601XL 912s
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on
> how to
> get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Return Parts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Dave:
Shirley can give you the ZAC UPS number. Last year
ZAC sent me the wrong parts and sent my parts to
somebody else. We used the ZAC UPS number to swap
packages across the country.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
99.99% done wiring radio and intercom
--- Dave VanLanen <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
They asked in their response to please ship the
unusable parts back to them. Is that normal operating
procedure? Do we pay the shipping?
> Thanks,
> Dave Van Lanen
Message 4
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| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri <pedfly60@yahoo.com>
thank you for the reply. I hope things work out ok and if you don't mind i would
like to email you every now and then to check and your progress. Thank you
and good luck, Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV
Allen Ricks <allenricks@verizon.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by:
"Allen Ricks"
Hi Mike,
Unfortunately progress has been slower than I would like due to a
combination of holiday, family and weather issues. Granddad (95) broke a
leg
(He's doing better now, he just asked my dad to refill his Viagra Rx. You
go Granddad).
I also needed to create some more work space in my garage, as all of the
quick build kit takes up a LOT of space.
It rained for more than a month straight here in Oregon, and
I needed a couple of good days that I was not working to pull stuff
out and re-arrange. I did that last week, and have a few more things
to re-arrange this week. I am also realizing that the quick build is
done to a point that I need to figure out when to have things inspected
before closing, as that will occurr quickly. I can sit in my fusalage
on my leather seats and make airplane noises already.
The only flat pieces of metal I can find are the main wing skins, and
they're
supposed to be flat when you put them on. Many parts are at
least partially pre-riveted. The fuselage is pretty much done. Everything
seems to have holes in it, and if it does not have rivets already, there
are pre-aligned and drilled holes with zinc chromate on most of the mating
surfaces. On the rudder kit, everything went quickly for me but the hole
location, so the rest of the kit should go relatively quickly.
I will say that there are a lot of parts to the kit, and getting them all
sorted out and stored was a project in and of itself. For me the quick
build took the project from potentially overwhelming to something that
seems really doable, especially now that I see just how complete the kit
is.
Hopefully by the end of this week, I'll be clecoing the wing parts, and
ready for
visitors that are interested in looking at the kit.
P.S. Don't underestimate the time it takes to unpack/catalog/store
everything if
you get the complete kit all at once. It's a project in and of itself. I
had to
build some additional shelving, and I still don't have everything stored as
I would
like. I envy those with barns, even if the barns have mice in them.
Allen Ricks
Beaverton, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michial
Pedri
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri
Hi Allen,
Just wondering how much progress and the experiences (negative Or
positive) you have with the quick build kit? I hope to purchase the kit in
the next few months and am still a little nervous about trying to build my
own plane (zero experience with building anything not to mention an
airplane) especially wiring, engine installation etc. Thank you for any
advice or comments you have to offer.
Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV
Allen Ricks wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks"
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri <pedfly60@yahoo.com>
thank you for the reply. I hope things work out ok and if you don't mind i would
like to email you every now and then to check and your progress. Thank you
and good luck, Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV
Allen Ricks <allenricks@verizon.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by:
"Allen Ricks"
Hi Mike,
Unfortunately progress has been slower than I would like due to a
combination of holiday, family and weather issues. Granddad (95) broke a
leg
(He's doing better now, he just asked my dad to refill his Viagra Rx. You
go Granddad).
I also needed to create some more work space in my garage, as all of the
quick build kit takes up a LOT of space.
It rained for more than a month straight here in Oregon, and
I needed a couple of good days that I was not working to pull stuff
out and re-arrange. I did that last week, and have a few more things
to re-arrange this week. I am also realizing that the quick build is
done to a point that I need to figure out when to have things inspected
before closing, as that will occurr quickly. I can sit in my fusalage
on my leather seats and make airplane noises already.
The only flat pieces of metal I can find are the main wing skins, and
they're
supposed to be flat when you put them on. Many parts are at
least partially pre-riveted. The fuselage is pretty much done. Everything
seems to have holes in it, and if it does not have rivets already, there
are pre-aligned and drilled holes with zinc chromate on most of the mating
surfaces. On the rudder kit, everything went quickly for me but the hole
location, so the rest of the kit should go relatively quickly.
I will say that there are a lot of parts to the kit, and getting them all
sorted out and stored was a project in and of itself. For me the quick
build took the project from potentially overwhelming to something that
seems really doable, especially now that I see just how complete the kit
is.
Hopefully by the end of this week, I'll be clecoing the wing parts, and
ready for
visitors that are interested in looking at the kit.
P.S. Don't underestimate the time it takes to unpack/catalog/store
everything if
you get the complete kit all at once. It's a project in and of itself. I
had to
build some additional shelving, and I still don't have everything stored as
I would
like. I envy those with barns, even if the barns have mice in them.
Allen Ricks
Beaverton, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michial
Pedri
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri
Hi Allen,
Just wondering how much progress and the experiences (negative Or
positive) you have with the quick build kit? I hope to purchase the kit in
the next few months and am still a little nervous about trying to build my
own plane (zero experience with building anything not to mention an
airplane) especially wiring, engine installation etc. Thank you for any
advice or comments you have to offer.
Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV
Allen Ricks wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks"
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 6
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| Subject: | quick build 601 XL (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri <pedfly60@yahoo.com>
thank you for the reply. I hope things work out ok and if you don't mind i would
like to email you every now and then to check and your progress. Thank you
and good luck, Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV
Allen Ricks <allenricks@verizon.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by:
"Allen Ricks"
Hi Mike,
Unfortunately progress has been slower than I would like due to a
combination of holiday, family and weather issues. Granddad (95) broke a
leg
(He's doing better now, he just asked my dad to refill his Viagra Rx. You
go Granddad).
I also needed to create some more work space in my garage, as all of the
quick build kit takes up a LOT of space.
It rained for more than a month straight here in Oregon, and
I needed a couple of good days that I was not working to pull stuff
out and re-arrange. I did that last week, and have a few more things
to re-arrange this week. I am also realizing that the quick build is
done to a point that I need to figure out when to have things inspected
before closing, as that will occurr quickly. I can sit in my fusalage
on my leather seats and make airplane noises already.
The only flat pieces of metal I can find are the main wing skins, and
they're
supposed to be flat when you put them on. Many parts are at
least partially pre-riveted. The fuselage is pretty much done. Everything
seems to have holes in it, and if it does not have rivets already, there
are pre-aligned and drilled holes with zinc chromate on most of the mating
surfaces. On the rudder kit, everything went quickly for me but the hole
location, so the rest of the kit should go relatively quickly.
I will say that there are a lot of parts to the kit, and getting them all
sorted out and stored was a project in and of itself. For me the quick
build took the project from potentially overwhelming to something that
seems really doable, especially now that I see just how complete the kit
is.
Hopefully by the end of this week, I'll be clecoing the wing parts, and
ready for
visitors that are interested in looking at the kit.
P.S. Don't underestimate the time it takes to unpack/catalog/store
everything if
you get the complete kit all at once. It's a project in and of itself. I
had to
build some additional shelving, and I still don't have everything stored as
I would
like. I envy those with barns, even if the barns have mice in them.
Allen Ricks
Beaverton, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michial
Pedri
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri
Hi Allen,
Just wondering how much progress and the experiences (negative Or
positive) you have with the quick build kit? I hope to purchase the kit in
the next few months and am still a little nervous about trying to build my
own plane (zero experience with building anything not to mention an
airplane) especially wiring, engine installation etc. Thank you for any
advice or comments you have to offer.
Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV
Allen Ricks wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks"
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 7
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
To recap the bidding (a.k.a. "flail the dead horse to a pulp suitable for use as
McDonald's burgers"):
I think we've now established that "iron rich Scotchbrite" is a complete and total
figment of the web. This is actually a very useful finding, in my view!
Meanwhile, to my knowledge, no one has demonstrated that the use of any abrasive
of any kind has ever been the proximate cause of any corrosion in any aluminum
aircraft. Not saying it can't happen or hasn't happened -- I suspect it actually
can and does -- just saying I still haven't seen it.
Maybe if you rubbed alclad aluminum sheet with rusty steel wool impregnated with
road salt and bird guano....
Note that there was one claim of Scotchbrite-induced corrosion, with photos, but
it turned out to be filiform (sp?) corrosion traceable to other sources.
Doug Garrou
Project 801
www.garrou.com
do not archive, I beg you
-----Original Message-----
Time: 09:00:09 AM PST US
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Hello Listers:
If it is unacceptable to allow iron rich Scotchbrite (if there is such a
thing) near aluminum, why are we permitted to use drill bits, shears, snips
& files, most of which are iron based?
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas do not archive
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 09:31:47 AM PST US
From: crvsecretary@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: crvsecretary@aol.com
Hi Randy:
Abrasives are wonderful things. Think of a grinding wheel: the cutting action
is created not by the texture of the surface but by the 'cracking' of the crystals
that the wheel is made of, thus exposing new, sharp cutting edges. If the
wheel is too hard, the crystals will not crack and it will load up; if too
soft it will turn to dust as you grind.
OK, so now back to the Dreaded Silicon Carbide Schtchbrite...or any other silicon
carbide abrasive product (like wet & dry 'sandpaper'). Some of the abrasive
grit will fracture from the abrasive cloth (or pad) and will be left behind
on the work. This is the bad thing we try to avoid - dissimiliar metals and corrosion.
Cutting tools like drill bits, shears, files etc. leave no residue.
Great question !!!!!
Regards,
Tracy Smith
N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy L. Thwing <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:56:22 -0800
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Hello Listers:
If it is unacceptable to allow iron rich Scotchbrite (if there is such a
thing) near aluminum, why are we permitted to use drill bits, shears, snips
& files, most of which are iron based?
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas do not archive
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 12:11:31 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Decal Paper
From: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
'Afternoon All,
Recently, someone had some decal paper to turn loose of. Please contact me off
list and we'll see if we can work something out. rick.beckman@atk.com
Thanks.
Do not archive
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 12:26:02 PM PST US
From: alex trent <atrent7@cogeco.ca>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 02/13/06
--> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent <atrent7@cogeco.ca>
>
>Time: 06:50:07 AM PST US
>From: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>The rivnuts have always been "keyed" but most people don't have the tool
>that cuts the little notch in the edge of the hole thaar the key fits into.
>As Cy says the rivnuts are soft aluninum and screws are steel. Thats a
>
>
Rivnuts *are* available in "steel". However they do tend to come
loose at the most awkward times no matter what the material. They are
also available unkeyed
alex
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 01:38:59 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL - CZA quickbuild kit - flap switch
From: "AndrewC" <andrewgcampbell@tiscali.co.uk>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AndrewC" <andrewgcampbell@tiscali.co.uk>
G-DROO is a quickbuild 601 XL from the CZAW factory from around July 2004. Last
weekend the plane took its first test flight and for the first time the flaps
decided to fail. The test pilot made a routine flapless landing but the result
is that after investigation it appears that the circuit breaker tripped and
would not reset. An examination of the flap motor and actuator rod assembly
showed that the CZAW kit has a metal flap on the actuator rod - presumably for
a RAC flap indicator servo mechanism to attach - and that the metal flap had
been impacting on the lower limit flap microswitch body when the flap was fully
retracted. Over time this impacting appears basically to have damaged the
microswitch body, resulting in a short circuit and the ensuing circuit breaker
trip (the switch fell apart when removed from the plane). A new switch has been
obtained and I intend to cut off the metal flap (since I don't have a flap
indicator) so that fouling cannot occur. It may be that a readjustment of the
microswitches on their mounting rod would remedy it too, but I'm happy to lose
the weight of that metal flap...
All I'd suggest is that if you have a CZAW quick build XL from around then you
might want to check the state of the flap lower limit microswitch to see whether,
at full up flap, there is any impacting on the microswitch body. It's probably
just mine that this has happened with, but thought it better to share it.
Andrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12171#12171
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 04:28:39 PM PST US
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Return Parts
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
We found a couple of incorrect parts when we inventoried our kit. ZAC is
sending us the correct parts. They asked in their response to please ship
the unusable parts back to them. Is that normal operating procedure? Do we
pay the shipping?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601 XL - stabilizer
Do not archive
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 05:15:01 PM PST US
From: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" <allenricks@verizon.net>
Hi Mike,
Unfortunately progress has been slower than I would like due to a
combination of holiday, family and weather issues. Granddad (95) broke a
leg
(He's doing better now, he just asked my dad to refill his Viagra Rx. You
go Granddad).
I also needed to create some more work space in my garage, as all of the
quick build kit takes up a LOT of space.
It rained for more than a month straight here in Oregon, and
I needed a couple of good days that I was not working to pull stuff
out and re-arrange. I did that last week, and have a few more things
to re-arrange this week. I am also realizing that the quick build is
done to a point that I need to figure out when to have things inspected
before closing, as that will occurr quickly. I can sit in my fusalage
on my leather seats and make airplane noises already.
The only flat pieces of metal I can find are the main wing skins, and
they're
supposed to be flat when you put them on. Many parts are at
least partially pre-riveted. The fuselage is pretty much done. Everything
seems to have holes in it, and if it does not have rivets already, there
are pre-aligned and drilled holes with zinc chromate on most of the mating
surfaces. On the rudder kit, everything went quickly for me but the hole
location, so the rest of the kit should go relatively quickly.
I will say that there are a lot of parts to the kit, and getting them all
sorted out and stored was a project in and of itself. For me the quick
build took the project from potentially overwhelming to something that
seems really doable, especially now that I see just how complete the kit
is.
Hopefully by the end of this week, I'll be clecoing the wing parts, and
ready for
visitors that are interested in looking at the kit.
P.S. Don't underestimate the time it takes to unpack/catalog/store
everything if
you get the complete kit all at once. It's a project in and of itself. I
had to
build some additional shelving, and I still don't have everything stored as
I would
like. I envy those with barns, even if the barns have mice in them.
Allen Ricks
Beaverton, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michial
Pedri
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: quick build 601 XL (long)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri <pedfly60@yahoo.com>
Hi Allen,
Just wondering how much progress and the experiences (negative Or
positive) you have with the quick build kit? I hope to purchase the kit in
the next few months and am still a little nervous about trying to build my
own plane (zero experience with building anything not to mention an
airplane) especially wiring, engine installation etc. Thank you for any
advice or comments you have to offer.
Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV
Allen Ricks <allenricks@verizon.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks"
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 05:22:17 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 XL - CZA quickbuild kit - flap switch
From: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" <dxj@comcast.net>
Andrew, thank you very much for the details. It's something I'll look for on my
own aircraft.
--------
Zodiac XL - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12231#12231
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
Time: 05:35:02 PM PST US
From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Return Parts
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
I'd say eat the shipping charge. The service from ZAC in such situations is
very good, and it's not a big deal. Possibly later you will make a mistake
shaping or drilling a small part and ZAC will probably send you one no
charge. So don't throw any corners into the smooth round equation of what
goes around comes around, just skew the circle in your favor and don't
quibble over the shipping.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Return Parts
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
> <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> We found a couple of incorrect parts when we inventoried our kit. ZAC is
> sending us the correct parts. They asked in their response to please ship
> the unusable parts back to them. Is that normal operating procedure? Do
> we
> pay the shipping?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Van Lanen
> Madison, WI
> 601 XL - stabilizer
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
Time: 06:15:24 PM PST US
From: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rotx 912s Choke
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
List--
I just finished
installing the choke cables ,for the second time, trying to get them to
require a little
less force when engaging the choke, without much success. The springs appear
to be very strong.
It seems to take a significant force to fully open the choke, and yet if I
let go of the knob it
closes fully.
A question for those that have installed and/or are flying with the 912s.
Does this sound correct? And if so, how do you hold the choke open with
one hand, set the throttle and trun the key to start the engine all at the
same time.
Thanks
George My
601XL 912s
>
>
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
Time: 06:34:02 PM PST US
From: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Rotx 912s Choke
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
BEFORE you consider changing the spring on a Rotax Motor read this !!!
http://www.ch601.org/stories/croke_crash.htm
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
List--
I just finished
installing the choke cables ,for the second time, trying to get them to
require a little
less force when engaging the choke, without much success. The springs
appear
to be very strong.
It seems to take a significant force to fully open the choke, and yet if
I
let go of the knob it
closes fully.
A question for those that have installed and/or are flying with the
912s.
Does this sound correct? And if so, how do you hold the choke open with
one hand, set the throttle and trun the key to start the engine all at
the
same time.
Thanks
George My
601XL 912s
>
>
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how
to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
--
2/13/2006
--
2/13/2006
________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________
Time: 07:07:47 PM PST US
From: "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
That's why I use tools only from China. They have a minimum amount of iron!
Gary Boothe, Cool, Ca
<gboothe@calply.com>
601HDSTD, WW Corvair Conv. - complete
Tail Group - complete. Working on Wings...
DEFINITELY DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing"
> <n4546v@mindspring.com>
>
> Hello Listers:
> If it is unacceptable to allow iron rich Scotchbrite (if there is such
> a
> thing) near aluminum, why are we permitted to use drill bits, shears,
> snips
> & files, most of which are iron based?
>
> Regards,
>
> Randy, Las Vegas do not archive
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________
Time: 07:19:38 PM PST US
From: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rotx 912s Choke
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
George
Sounds like you've got your choke set pretty smooth if it closes on it's own. I
have to push mine in, though with not much pressure. As for the throttle, it
needs to be closed (choke is ineffective at any other position) and if you have
the friction block set-up properly adjusted (providing that is how your throttle
is rigged), it's pretty much hands off. As the engine starts to run smoothly the
choke needs to go in anyway. Two hands are plenty sufficient to the task. On
mine I have found that after the first cold start of the day, the choke has been
unnecessary for subsequent starts, even after a few hours.
Mike Sinclair N701TD
george may wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
>
> List--
> I just finished
> installing the choke cables ,for the second time, trying to get them to
> require a little
> less force when engaging the choke, without much success. The springs appear
> to be very strong.
> It seems to take a significant force to fully open the choke, and yet if I
> let go of the knob it
> closes fully.
>
> A question for those that have installed and/or are flying with the 912s.
>
> Does this sound correct? And if so, how do you hold the choke open with
> one hand, set the throttle and trun the key to start the engine all at the
> same time.
>
> Thanks
> George My
> 601XL 912s
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
> get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
>
>
________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________
Time: 08:07:33 PM PST US
From: Dave and Pam Fisher <dpfisher@scottsbluff.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: slim rivet tool
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dave and Pam Fisher <dpfisher@scottsbluff.net>
Hi Phill& list,
I don't recall where I picked up the idea for riveting in tight spots, but
I made a small attachment for my rivet tool that works slick for tight corners.
It's just a cylindrical piece of metal 3/8 inch in diameter about 3/8 of an
inch long with one end beveled at 30 degrees. Dimple the square cut end
like the nose piece of your riveter and drill a hole for rivet stems
through the center of it. Slip the thing over the rivet stem before you
pull it and you will be able to position your puller at an angle and still
get a straight pull on the rivet.
Have fun!!
Dave, 701 with A80-8 Continental
________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________
Time: 09:59:15 PM PST US
From: NYTerminat@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Crosswind - The Last Flight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
Dave
Were you able to figure out what went wrong?
Bob Spudis
Do not archive
In a message dated 1/18/2006 11:36:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
NYTerminat@aol.com writes:
Dave'
I am so sorry for your engine out. Praise the Lord that you are safe. Thank
you for your testimony as I too am a Christian. Lord willing I will be
making
my 1st flight in N701ZX a 701 with a Rotax 912S tomorrow. What was the
engine
out glide like? Did you have much range? Could it have been icing?
God Bless
Bob Spudis
________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________
Time: 10:14:04 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: slim rivet tool
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
I don't quite understand what you mean. Got any pictures?
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12278#12278
Message 8
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| Subject: | Top cover fastener receptacles |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Larry Mac,
I remember that you used clip on receptacles for attaching your top cover
over the header tank and instrument panel. What part number did you use? Did
you use 10/32? Also, how did you attach the 3 or 4 screws to the upper longeron?
R/
Brandon Tucker
Airframe complete
Wiring complete
Engine installed (but have to swap out the crank next week! )
Painting fuselage
Do not archive
---------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Scotchbrite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
"Cutting tools like drill bits, shears, files etc. leave no residue."
Hello Tracy:
While I agree with most of your post, if the above were absolutely true,
cutting edges on drills etc. would never wear and would stay sharp forever.
Cutting edges wear, leaving that amount of metal somewhere. Granted, tools
are very long lasting cutting Aluminum, and leave nowhere near the debris
that abrasives do, but they do leave some. Carpenter Steel points out in
their Stainless Steel guides that when a complaint comes in from the field
that a machined stainless steel part is rusting, the first thing to ask is
if the rust is occuring in a area that has been machined. That is usually
the case and the cause is microspopic residue from the STEEL cutting tool,
i.e. end mill, that was used to machine the stainless part is present and it
is that material that is rusting on the surface, not the stainless steel
itself. I manufacture certain parts from 303 stainless, and I have
experienced the above.
Thanks to Doug for confirming that "iron rich Scotchbrite" is now part of
the lexicon.
Best Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
do not archive
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Scotchbrite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Randy:
You are absolutely right and I should not speak in absolutes, as in "leave NO residue"
(emphesis mine).
However, I was speaking about residues that would make a material difference in
the work. In machining stainless, microscopic residue from the HSS tool WILL
make a difference; but in our little aluminum airplanes the residue from a HSS
drill is absolutely insignificant. The experts caution us the volume of residue
from a silicone carbide abrasive is truely a potential corrosion hazard.
Thanks for the correction, Randy.
Tracy Smith
N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy L. Thwing <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Sent: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:18:01 -0800
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
"Cutting tools like drill bits, shears, files etc. leave no residue."
Hello Tracy:
While I agree with most of your post, if the above were absolutely true,
cutting edges on drills etc. would never wear and would stay sharp forever.
Cutting edges wear, leaving that amount of metal somewhere. Granted, tools
are very long lasting cutting Aluminum, and leave nowhere near the debris
that abrasives do, but they do leave some. Carpenter Steel points out in
their Stainless Steel guides that when a complaint comes in from the field
that a machined stainless steel part is rusting, the first thing to ask is
if the rust is occuring in a area that has been machined. That is usually
the case and the cause is microspopic residue from the STEEL cutting tool,
i.e. end mill, that was used to machine the stainless part is present and it
is that material that is rusting on the surface, not the stainless steel
itself. I manufacture certain parts from 303 stainless, and I have
experienced the above.
Thanks to Doug for confirming that "iron rich Scotchbrite" is now part of
the lexicon.
Best Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Top cover fastener receptacles |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com>
Brandon,
I used J-nut clip on styles 1 & 2, principally the style 2, which is a
little longer on firewall and
instrument panel flange. Style 1 on the sides. Part numbers supporting
6-32 and the appropriate
hole to edge distance. Go to http://www.mcmaster.com to search window
and see j-nuts, for machine
screws, shapes 1 and 2, then select 6-32 and the edge distance.
On my canopy page you can see that I made and used a separate piece to
go from the longeron to the edge
to minimize the forward top sides to a straight edge. The forward top
skin fits over the piece each side, the
j-nuts slip onto the edge which goes beneath the side pieces. The short
pieces are riveted with A5s to the
longeron, while two rivets secure each piece to the firewall flange.
The entire pattern of the forward top skin
is 6-32 screws which are 3/8-inch long. 6-32 screws are more than
adequate and hard to visually differentiate from
rivets at nearly any distance. See links below to understand side pieces,
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/flash&rubber.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/uclips.gif
Removal begins with the canopy down, and the first 5 screws each side
are removed, a patch of .025 aluminum
4 by 6-inches is slipped each side between the rubber and the top skin.
The canopy is raised, arms covering the
space where the screws were. The remaining screws are removed, the gas
cap if you have one is removed and the
forward top skin is lifted off. The gas cap is reattached. The canopy
can be left up or down at this point. The
aluminum patches are there to prevent the rubber on the arms from
snagging the forward top skin after the screws
are removed. Reattachment is the same in reverse. About 20 minutes
each way.
Definitely worth the effort!
Hope this helps, but if you have more questions please just ask.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS with installed XL forward tilt canopy per Zenith.
Brandon Tucker wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>
>Larry Mac,
>
> I remember that you used clip on receptacles for attaching your top cover
over the header tank and instrument panel. What part number did you use? Did
you use 10/32? Also, how did you attach the 3 or 4 screws to the upper longeron?
>
> R/
>
> Brandon Tucker
>
> Airframe complete
> Wiring complete
> Engine installed (but have to swap out the crank next week! )
> Painting fuselage
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
Which DOES mean, the type "S" scotchbrite should be avoided right???
-Bruce Johnson (who polished parts of his 6061T-6 Sonex spar with silicon
carbide laced "TYPE S" scotchbrite :-( )
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of crvsecretary@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:36 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: crvsecretary@aol.com
>
> Hello Randy:
>
> You are absolutely right and I should not speak in absolutes, as in "leave
> NO residue" (emphesis mine).
>
> However, I was speaking about residues that would make a material
> difference in the work. In machining stainless, microscopic residue from
> the HSS tool WILL make a difference; but in our little aluminum airplanes
> the residue from a HSS drill is absolutely insignificant. The experts
> caution us the volume of residue from a silicone carbide abrasive is
> truely a potential corrosion hazard.
>
> Thanks for the correction, Randy.
>
> Tracy Smith
> N458XL (reserved)
> do not archive
>
--
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: CoJo331@aol.com
A question for the list, the writer is about to began work on the ailerons
my hang up is this; I want to build the piano hinged version since I did not
convey this to ZAC when the 601XL kit was ordered it defaulted to the
hingless version.
My options are I can return aileron skin p/n 6W2-3 to ZAC in exchange for
the piano
hinged option p/n 6PH1-1 or I can proceed with the aileron skin that came
with the
kit and modify it with an added weight penalty that being an an added 60
inch
length piece of .040 x 3/4 angle and 2 additional rows of rivets times two.
Help me out I can't see the forest for the trees. Thanks in advance!
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
I converted mine from hingeless to hinge type after discussing it with Chris
Heinz at Sun-N-Fun. I cut the over lap down from 40mm to 20mm, used 025 L
under the over lap. The hinge goes between the top skin and the L channel,
it is quick and easy with very little additional weight.
Clyde Barcus
601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: <CoJo331@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: CoJo331@aol.com
>
> A question for the list, the writer is about to began work on the ailerons
> my hang up is this; I want to build the piano hinged version since I did
> not
> convey this to ZAC when the 601XL kit was ordered it defaulted to the
> hingless version.
> My options are I can return aileron skin p/n 6W2-3 to ZAC in exchange for
> the piano
> hinged option p/n 6PH1-1 or I can proceed with the aileron skin that
> came
> with the
> kit and modify it with an added weight penalty that being an an added 60
> inch
> length piece of .040 x 3/4 angle and 2 additional rows of rivets times
> two.
> Help me out I can't see the forest for the trees. Thanks in advance!
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | DEAD(?) HORSE !!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Well.......
Having finished off the ScotchBrite horse, was wondering if he/she/it will "lie
in repose" somewhere.
At 3M corporate offices? Mexico, MO? South Texas bird ranch?
What, actually, did him in? Was it the muzzle blast...or maybe the shot came
from the other end?
Maybe it was the elbow grease dripping on the Alclad as a result of over-indulgent
use of the pads? Poor grounding? Dis-similar horseshoes? One talking head
said "buck shot", another said the shot were five (5) mm in diameter.
Who will serve as pallbearers? Monument? A bouquet of SB pads?
Subject for next week (early warning so you can gather MSDS's and slide rules)
will be:
"Pros & Cons of Static Wicks as related to use on Sub-Mach Aerial Transit Mechanisms
of Lightweight Metallic Construction".
As an alternate: "Proper Placement and Length-adjustment Algorithm for Static
Wicks on Flying Machines That Don't Go Nowhere In A Hurry".
Earn an on-line PhD with these, get a downloadable Certificate of Authenticity,
suitable for framing.
Blessed are the words Do Not Archive, for they be saving disk space.
Zed/701/R912/90+%/is there a haz-mat fee for disposing of used ScotchBrite pads?
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rotx 912s Choke |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
Mark,Mike and Trevor,
Thanks for the reply info on the choke cables. I guess
things are ok as is. Even though I had no intention of messing with the
springs, I appreciate your warnings.
George
601XL 912s
do not archive
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
On Wed Feb 15 at 11:35 AM, CoJo331@aol.com wrote:
<snip> My options are I can return aileron skin p/n 6W2-3 to
ZAC in exchange for the piano hinged option p/n 6PH1-1 or
I can proceed with the aileron skin that came with the kit and
modify it with an added weight penalty that being an added
60 inch length piece of .040 x 3/4 angle and 2 additional rows
of rivets times two. <snip>
I know this is a touchy subject but one option you overlooked is to install
as provided. Lots of builders already have.
..neil
601XL/Corvair
Fuselage and stuff
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
OK guys. Now you have me curious. Why would you want piano hinge
ailerons instead of the cool perfectly sealed ones in the standard
design? I tried flying with the hingeless design on the factory
demonstrator and found full aileron authority all the way down to
stall speed. What more would you hope to gain with piano hinges?
Paul
XL wings
>I converted mine from hingeless to hinge type after discussing it with Chris
>Heinz at Sun-N-Fun. I cut the over lap down from 40mm to 20mm, used 025 L
>under the over lap. The hinge goes between the top skin and the L channel,
>it is quick and easy with very little additional weight.
>
>Clyde Barcus
>601XL
-
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Mr. CoJo,
Chris Heintz's hingeless/aileron gap seal design for the ailerons is ingenious
to say the least. The simplicity of design and very thorough testing, ie. 300,000
plus 180 degree deflections of the aluminium "hinge" with a 2 inch cut into
the material yielded no fatigue in the cut. I was told this by my building
mentor who scratch built his 601 and has built 3 other planes before this last
one. He is a retired machinist and sheet metal expert at Xerox during his working
years and he has had this very talk with Chris Heintz.
I have been flying my CH601XL for 50 hours and the design as it stands makes for
a simple, affordable, easily maintained and sound aircraft. Remember the KISS
acronym "keep it simple stu..." and Chris does, Hingeless is where it is at!
For what it is worth... just adding my 2 cents worth.
Jeff Paris
N196ZP Jabiru 3300 CH601XL
--- On Wed 02/15, < CoJo331@aol.com > wrote:
From: [mailto: CoJo331@aol.com]
Subject: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: CoJo331@aol.com
A question for the list, the writer is about to began work on the ailerons
my hang up is this; I want to build the piano hinged version since I did not
convey this to ZAC when the 601XL kit was ordered it defaulted to the
hingless version.
My options are I can return aileron skin p/n 6W2-3 to ZAC in exchange for
the piano
hinged option p/n 6PH1-1 or I can proceed with the aileron skin that came
with the
kit and modify it with an added weight penalty that being an an added 60
inch
length piece of .040 x 3/4 angle and 2 additional rows of rivets times two.
Help me out I can't see the forest for the trees. Thanks in advance!
page,
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
I was told by Gus at William Wynne's that the controls have a lighter touch
at slow speed, which I prefer, they recently converted their plane to hinge
type. Also, not everyone likes the idea of the unconventional hingeless
method, someday I will quit flying and I will need to sell my plane and I
want it to appeal to as many pilots as possible. It is really not a matter
of which is better, it is just preference, a lot like tri gear versus
conventional gear. There must be a fair amount of interest or ZAC would not
have added it to the options after so many years.
Clyde Barcus
601X
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> OK guys. Now you have me curious. Why would you want piano hinge
> ailerons instead of the cool perfectly sealed ones in the standard
> design? I tried flying with the hingeless design on the factory
> demonstrator and found full aileron authority all the way down to
> stall speed. What more would you hope to gain with piano hinges?
>
> Paul
> XL wings
>
>
>>I converted mine from hingeless to hinge type after discussing it with
>>Chris
>>Heinz at Sun-N-Fun. I cut the over lap down from 40mm to 20mm, used 025 L
>>under the over lap. The hinge goes between the top skin and the L channel,
>>it is quick and easy with very little additional weight.
>>
>>Clyde Barcus
>>601XL
>
> -
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Rotx 912s Choke |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello George,
This is how Succesfully I start my engine cold everytime with no problem. Yes,
I used to flood it, discharge the batery, or just get mad... Until this way
the engine starts 99 times out of 100, (Perfection is not human :-)
1.- I have my idle (warm) set at 1,900 rpms full throttle pull (off). Yes,
the best idle is 2,000 but this gives me less "pull" of the engine at last final
approach.
2.- To start the engine you dont need any throttle movement, If you push the
throttle more than 10 mm (in my 701) the chokes will not work and the engine
will not start.
3.- I adjust the trottle only about 3 to 5mm push. NO more or it will not start.
4.- Step hard in both brakes, just in case you aply accidentally to much trottle
when the engine starts. Dont laugh, it happens very often....
4.- With one hand pull full the choke (this is hold ONLY for 2 or 3 seconds of
engine running) , Shout CLEAR! and look around for kids and dogs. With the
other hand turn start the key. it will start very easy and at about 2,100 to
2300 rpms, in 2 or 3 seconds release the choke completly, look at the oil pressure
(60 lbs) and then adjust gently the trottle to 2,500 for about 2 or 3 minutes,
then thottle back to 2,000 until the oil temp reaches 50 C (or 120 F
if I am correct). This will take about 5 to 7 minutes.
IMPORTANT: Never idle the engine under 2,000 rpms, is harmfull (shaking) for
plane and engine.
The good thing about needing to warm the Rotax engine for about 10 minutes is
that the engine will stop before take off, if we forgot to open the gasoline
valve :-)
Hope this helps, if no one has a better experience... Here we dont have very
cold mornings, even on winter, for real cold climates could be a diferent procedure
(?)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
george may <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may"
List--
I just finished
installing the choke cables ,for the second time, trying to get them to
require a little
less force when engaging the choke, without much success. The springs appear
to be very strong.
It seems to take a significant force to fully open the choke, and yet if I
let go of the knob it
closes fully.
A question for those that have installed and/or are flying with the 912s.
Does this sound correct? And if so, how do you hold the choke open with
one hand, set the throttle and trun the key to start the engine all at the
same time.
Thanks
George My
601XL 912s
---------------------------------
Message 22
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| Subject: | Rivets - Quantity and Price: |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "J S" <jgshore@hotmail.com>
Has anyone determined the approximate number of A4 and A5 rivets it takes to
build the 601XL? Also, are there any recommendations re a good source and
pricing for Textron Avdel rivets in Southern Ontario?
Thanks,
John Shore
Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft
SmartScreen Technology.
first two months FREE*.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
It has always been an option for those non-believers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
>
> I was told by Gus at William Wynne's that the controls have a lighter
> touch
> at slow speed, which I prefer, they recently converted their plane to
> hinge
> type. Also, not everyone likes the idea of the unconventional hingeless
> method, someday I will quit flying and I will need to sell my plane and I
> want it to appeal to as many pilots as possible. It is really not a matter
> of which is better, it is just preference, a lot like tri gear versus
> conventional gear. There must be a fair amount of interest or ZAC would
> not
> have added it to the options after so many years.
>
> Clyde Barcus
> 601X
>
> Do Not Archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>>
>> OK guys. Now you have me curious. Why would you want piano hinge
>> ailerons instead of the cool perfectly sealed ones in the standard
>> design? I tried flying with the hingeless design on the factory
>> demonstrator and found full aileron authority all the way down to
>> stall speed. What more would you hope to gain with piano hinges?
>>
>> Paul
>> XL wings
>>
>>
>>>I converted mine from hingeless to hinge type after discussing it with
>>>Chris
>>>Heinz at Sun-N-Fun. I cut the over lap down from 40mm to 20mm, used 025 L
>>>under the over lap. The hinge goes between the top skin and the L
>>>channel,
>>>it is quick and easy with very little additional weight.
>>>
>>>Clyde Barcus
>>>601XL
>>
>> -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: slim or offset rivet tool |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dave and Pam Fisher <dpfisher@scottsbluff.net>
At 12:59 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote:
>3/8 inch in diameter about 3/8 of an
>inch long with one end beveled at 30 degrees. Dimple the square cut end
>like the nose piece of your riveter and drill a hole for rivet stems
>through the center of it. Slip the thing over the rivet stem before you
>pull it and you will be able to position your puller at an angle and still
>get a straight pull on the rivet.
Hi Ron and list,
Sorry, no pictures, but I'll try again: I think you could do what my tool
does by grinding the nose piece of your riveter at an angle and then dimple
the new beveled nose . You can then angle the riveter into a corner while
keeping the new beveled nose square with the rivet. You'll bend the rivet
stem in the process but you'll get a good set on the rivet. My little
attachment works the same way but doesn't alter the nose piece of the riveter.
Better?
Dave, 701 with A80-8 Continental
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: slim or offset rivet tool |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
Much better. I couldn't see how that would work without bending the stem.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12529#12529
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets : (This is how many) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi John:
I have your answer! Well almost. I have filled four
- yes four - Gatorade bottles with rivet stems.
Here's a picture taken just over a year ago when I had
filled three bottles.
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_01_05_Stems.JPG
I'll make you a deal. After I pull the last rivet,
I'll send you the bottles and you can dump them out
and count them, then let us all know how many of each
size there are!
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
Radio making noises!
--- J S <jgshore@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone determined the approximate number of A4
> and A5 rivets it takes to
> build the 601XL?
Message 27
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| Subject: | Rivets : (This is how many) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Scott youre a nicer man then I. I have also saved all stems and told
the kids that they will be counting them when I'm done. Wait till I tell
them that they have to separate the stems into A4 and A5 piles before
counting.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Hi John:
I have your answer! Well almost. I have filled four
- yes four - Gatorade bottles with rivet stems.
Here's a picture taken just over a year ago when I had
filled three bottles.
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_01_05_Stems.JPG
I'll make you a deal. After I pull the last rivet,
I'll send you the bottles and you can dump them out
and count them, then let us all know how many of each
size there are!
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
Radio making noises!
--- J S <jgshore@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone determined the approximate number of A4
> and A5 rivets it takes to
> build the 601XL?
--
2/15/2006
--
2/15/2006
Message 28
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| Subject: | Rivets : (This is how many) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
<<<Has anyone determined the approximate number of A4 and A5 rivets it takes
to build the 601XL? >>>>
The kit comes with about 5000 of each.....10,000 total.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Yes, same as the double joke option... Is very easy and lots of space in the
cabin with the central Yoke... But some just dont believe before trying it.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
cgalley <cgalley@qcbc.org> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley"
It has always been an option for those non-believers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clyde Barcus"
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus"
>
> I was told by Gus at William Wynne's that the controls have a lighter
> touch
> at slow speed, which I prefer, they recently converted their plane to
> hinge
> type. Also, not everyone likes the idea of the unconventional hingeless
> method, someday I will quit flying and I will need to sell my plane and I
> want it to appeal to as many pilots as possible. It is really not a matter
> of which is better, it is just preference, a lot like tri gear versus
> conventional gear. There must be a fair amount of interest or ZAC would
> not
> have added it to the options after so many years.
>
> Clyde Barcus
> 601X
>
> Do Not Archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Mulwitz"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>>
>>
>> OK guys. Now you have me curious. Why would you want piano hinge
>> ailerons instead of the cool perfectly sealed ones in the standard
>> design? I tried flying with the hingeless design on the factory
>> demonstrator and found full aileron authority all the way down to
>> stall speed. What more would you hope to gain with piano hinges?
>>
>> Paul
>> XL wings
>>
>>
>>>I converted mine from hingeless to hinge type after discussing it with
>>>Chris
>>>Heinz at Sun-N-Fun. I cut the over lap down from 40mm to 20mm, used 025 L
>>>under the over lap. The hinge goes between the top skin and the L
>>>channel,
>>>it is quick and easy with very little additional weight.
>>>
>>>Clyde Barcus
>>>601XL
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Message 30
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Gary, I was convinced of the center "Y" stick the very first time I got
into a 601HD with dual sticks wearing shorts and the floor carpet
slipped out from under my feet ramming the stick up my shorts and FIRMLY
into crotch region. Then falling into seat and stick not going back that
far. IT was almost a week before I could walk normally again. That is
why I'm adamant on the Y stick.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Yes, same as the double joke option... Is very easy and lots of space
in the cabin with the central Yoke... But some just dont believe before
trying it.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
cgalley <cgalley@qcbc.org> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley"
It has always been an option for those non-believers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clyde Barcus"
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus"
>
> I was told by Gus at William Wynne's that the controls have a lighter
> touch
> at slow speed, which I prefer, they recently converted their plane to
> hinge
> type. Also, not everyone likes the idea of the unconventional
hingeless
> method, someday I will quit flying and I will need to sell my plane
and I
> want it to appeal to as many pilots as possible. It is really not a
matter
> of which is better, it is just preference, a lot like tri gear versus
> conventional gear. There must be a fair amount of interest or ZAC
would
> not
> have added it to the options after so many years.
>
> Clyde Barcus
> 601X
>
> Do Not Archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Mulwitz"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>>
>>
>> OK guys. Now you have me curious. Why would you want piano hinge
>> ailerons instead of the cool perfectly sealed ones in the standard
>> design? I tried flying with the hingeless design on the factory
>> demonstrator and found full aileron authority all the way down to
>> stall speed. What more would you hope to gain with piano hinges?
>>
>> Paul
>> XL wings
>>
>>
>>>I converted mine from hingeless to hinge type after discussing it
with
>>>Chris
>>>Heinz at Sun-N-Fun. I cut the over lap down from 40mm to 20mm, used
025 L
>>>under the over lap. The hinge goes between the top skin and the L
>>>channel,
>>>it is quick and easy with very little additional weight.
>>>
>>>Clyde Barcus
>>>601XL
---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
--
2/15/2006
--
2/15/2006
Message 31
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| Subject: | Crosswind - The First Step Toward the Next Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Zilz" <z4t143@hotmail.com>
Thanks to all of you listers who have offered public and private support and much
needed words of encouragement following Crosswind's forced landing and substantial
damage on 18 January.
Today marks the first day in a long "pre-flight" period as my family and I begin
our "return to flight" program. Specifically, today we completed the settlement
process with our insurance company and are now cleared to begin repairing/rebuilding
Crosswind!
First, let me say that the experience we had with Falcon AIG Aviation insurance
was wonderful. From the time I contacted them for a quote until we received
our settlement check, the customer service and considerations given to our special
circumstances were outstanding. I highly recommend the following agent:
Jim Stewart, Falcon Insurance Agency- Kerrville, TX, EAA Division, 866-647-4322,
jstewart@falconinsurance.com
Next, let me address some of the questions some of you have raised and some lessons
learned.
1) The 801 does NOT glide well at engine out. Although I was at 4000 MSL (~3500
AGL) when I lost power, I covered only 1 mile in distance before I met the tree
line. My lesson learned is that if I ever again need to execute an engine
out forced landing, I will begin my search for an acceptable field BELOW me and
not out in front of me.
2) The cabin structure seems to be very "crash worthy". Although I still consider
it divine intervention and a modern miracle that I walked away without a scratch,
the engineer in me has to look at the wreckage and assess what failed
and what held. The cabin structure did well despite the fact that both wings
absorbed much of the energy and crushed the airframe behind the front seats.
3) Stay over the field when flight testing new conditions. I became a bit overconfident
during this flight test and strayed too far from the field when I inititated
a new flight condition. I had been up for just over an hour and all
was well. Although I was flying ovals over the field, I had drifted a bit farther
East of the field during this pass and was just enjoying the scenery. However,
it was when I was at this farthest point from the field (about 2 miles
off the end of the runway) that I set up a new, first time ever, flight condition.
I'll explain the new flight condition below, but the lesson learned here
is to be over the field when you try a new combination of aero configuration
and power setting.
4) The flight condition and analysis: As stated earlier, I had been up for over
an hour doing engine performance checks. The aircraft had 22 gal of 100LL fuel
at take-off and an estimated 10-12 gal still on board when the flight was terminated.
This flight test mission was to assess engine performance. Specifically,
I was flying ovals around the field at different altitudes and power settings
and recording all the available performance parameters. I had been making
radio calls to my ground crew who recorded all the readings, which included
pressures and temperatures, even carburetor air tempurature. The flight condition
at which I lost fuel pressure and subsequently the engine, was low speed,
high drag, and moderate to high power. Specifically, I had dropped the flaps
to 30 degs and increased power to hold altitude. In this condition, I was
slow (58MPH), with moderatly high power (2100 RPM), and probably reduced cooling
through the cowl. The outside air temperature was around 48 deg F and the
Carb Air temp was 45 deg F. Shortly after entering this flight condition, the
fuel pressure dropped to below 2psi and the engine quit very shortly thereafter.
There was no indication of rough running such as would be the case with
carb ice. With the electric fuel pump on and following all the normal procedures,
I was able to start the engine briefly, but it never did accelerate. Finally,
it stopped and would not start again. The current working theory is that
at this flight condition, the gacolator overheated, vaporized the fuel, and
created a vapor lock in the system. The fact that both the electric and mechanical
fuel pumps are downstream of the gascolator created a condition wherein,
the system could not expell the vapor and deliver fresh fuel to the engine.
Fuel System Changes for Crosswind II: During this re-build I plan to do the following
to minimize the chances of this happening again.
Move electric fuel pump upstream of gascolator
Move gascolator farther away from exhaust pipes
Wrap exhaust pipes with insulation wrap to minimize radiant heating
Add cooling air blast tube from engine baffles to blow on gascolator
Add air vent lines to filler necks of 801 fuel tanks and route open vent line to
wing lower surface
Hope this summary can help some of you as you begin your testing.
Check out our website for updates. http://crosswind.myairplane.com/
Dave
Message 32
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| Subject: | Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Murray <tall_tech_teach@yahoo.com>
Being a penny pinching school teacher, I found the
price and weight for the spec'd flap actuator motor to
be too much. I scanned the archives and saw that a #25
linear actuator motor was being proposed by a few
members. My question is this..... have they flown with
them yet? 25 lbs seems to be too small a force to
overcome the wind pressure on both flaps at Vfe or
below. How are other frugal builders actuating their
flaps? I have thought about using a "manual actuator"
(a lever with detents for 0-30 degrees), but I'm
building a dual stick version so it won't look like
the prototype that Zenith Air built in which the lever
was between the pilot's legs. I would love it to be
near the center arm rest, but I also need a console
and doubt that there will be space for both.
HELP!!!
Warmest Wishes in Olalla, WA
William Murray
tall_tech_teach@yahoo.com
Message 33
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| Subject: | Fw: CH701 Steering Rod Boots |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" <jfosse1@shawneelink.net>
Listers. For what its worth, I have found what I think is a good boot for the steering rods. They are Rack and Pinion boots from J.C. Whitney, P/N CC473495 @ $12.99. The web site is www.jcwhitney.com.
Question for anyone flying the 701. What is the max lateral movement (aileron
control) at the top of the stick. Give me the answer off line, if you will.
Thanks.
Jim Fosse
Message 34
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| Subject: | Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Some have used electric windows motors. But I can't point to any specifics.
Certainly these day when many cars come equipped with electric windows you
stand a good chance of finding a bargain at a wrecking yard.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Murray
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Murray
--> <tall_tech_teach@yahoo.com>
Being a penny pinching school teacher, I found the price and weight for the
spec'd flap actuator motor to be too much. I scanned the archives and saw
that a #25 linear actuator motor was being proposed by a few members. My
question is this..... have they flown with them yet? 25 lbs seems to be too
small a force to overcome the wind pressure on both flaps at Vfe or below.
How are other frugal builders actuating their flaps? I have thought about
using a "manual actuator"
(a lever with detents for 0-30 degrees), but I'm building a dual stick
version so it won't look like the prototype that Zenith Air built in which
the lever was between the pilot's legs. I would love it to be near the
center arm rest, but I also need a console and doubt that there will be
space for both.
HELP!!!
Warmest Wishes in Olalla, WA
William Murray
tall_tech_teach@yahoo.com
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