---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/16/06: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:01 AM - Re: Rivets : (This is how many) (Brad Cohen) 2. 03:36 AM - Re: Fw: CH701 Steering Rod Boots (Rick R) 3. 05:25 AM - 701 quick build kit (Michial Pedri) 4. 05:38 AM - Re: 701 quick build kit (Elwood140@aol.com) 5. 06:14 AM - Re: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? (Aaron Gustafson) 6. 06:14 AM - Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL (John Hines) 7. 06:19 AM - Re: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) (N5SL) 8. 06:55 AM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (Jim Hoak) 9. 07:08 AM - Re: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) (Larry) 10. 07:08 AM - Re: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? (Trainnut01@aol.com) 11. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: Ailerons 601XL () 12. 08:13 AM - Re: Phoenix (James Sagerser) 13. 08:33 AM - Re: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Gift Horse and Bad Teeth) (N5SL) 14. 09:15 AM - Re: 701 quick build kit (Allen Ricks) 15. 09:30 AM - 0-200 Mount (Aaron Gustafson) 16. 09:58 AM - Re: (Gift Horse and Bad Teeth) (japhillipsga@aol.com) 17. 10:06 AM - Re: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) (japhillipsga@aol.com) 18. 11:04 AM - Aviation Thoughts (Beckman, Rick) 19. 11:05 AM - Re: Flap Actuator WEIGHT (N5SL) 20. 11:14 AM - Re: Phoenix (James Sagerser) 21. 11:39 AM - Re: Flap Actuator WEIGHT (Allen Ricks) 22. 12:06 PM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (Leo Gates) 23. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: Women Building Zeniths (Larry McFarland) 24. 01:05 PM - Re: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? (nyterminat@aol.com) 25. 01:29 PM - Re: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? (Craig Payne) 26. 01:29 PM - Re: Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL (Craig Payne) 27. 01:35 PM - Re: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) (Craig Payne) 28. 01:41 PM - Re: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) (Craig Payne) 29. 01:44 PM - Re: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? (Craig Payne) 30. 02:18 PM - Re: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? (Ron Butterfield) 31. 03:20 PM - Zenith float keel strips (jnbolding1) 32. 03:38 PM - Re: Aviation Thoughts (Bill+Rose) 33. 07:04 PM - 601 XL - 2 X 2 Steel Beams (Dave VanLanen) 34. 07:33 PM - Re: Mice and Storage (William Jeffries) 35. 08:00 PM - Re: 601 XL - 2 X 2 Steel Beams (cgalley) 36. 08:08 PM - Re: Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL (Brandon Tucker) 37. 08:47 PM - Re: 601 XL - 2 X 2 Steel Beams (Robert Schoenberger) 38. 09:43 PM - Re: Phoenix (Gary Gower) 39. 11:23 PM - Re: 601 XL - 2 X 2 Steel Beams (Paul Mulwitz) 40. 11:23 PM - Re: Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:46 AM PST US From: "Brad Cohen" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivets : (This is how many) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brad Cohen" I'm only counting the two that matter most; the first and the last! Brad Cohen >From: VideoFlyer@aol.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets : (This is how many) >Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:11:40 EST > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com > > <<takes >to build the 601XL? >>>> > > >The kit comes with about 5000 of each.....10,000 total. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:01 AM PST US From: Rick R Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: CH701 Steering Rod Boots --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R Thanks Jim...ordering mine now..... DO NOT ARICHIVE Jim Fosse wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" Listers. For what its worth, I have found what I think is a good boot for the steering rods. They are Rack and Pinion boots from J.C. Whitney, P/N CC473495 @ $12.99. The web site is www.jcwhitney.com. Rick Orlando, FL. USA http://www.n701rr.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:50 AM PST US From: Michial Pedri Subject: Zenith-List: 701 quick build kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michial Pedri Does anyone know if zenith plans to offer the 701 as a quick build kit? Thank you, Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:53 AM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 quick build kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com In a message dated 2/16/2006 7:27:07 AM Central Standard Time, pedfly60@yahoo.com writes: Does anyone know if zenith plans to offer the 701 as a quick build kit? Thank you, Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV Mike, go to _www.Zenithair.com_ (http://www.Zenithair.com) and ask Nick or Sebastien that question. Regards, Larry Wood (N701LW this year maybe) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:00 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" I used a power seat motor from a Lincoln. One problem w/ these types of motors is that they use the same motor winding for both directions which presents an issue when you try to put a limit on the travel. If you put a cut out switch in the circuit, that switch also prevents reversing the motor, so won't work. If you rely on a physical stop, it is likely that the motor will bind and not reverse. Things to think about! Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" Does anyone have the Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL. It looks like a pretty neat device and relatively inexpensive. I've done some searching on the net for current installs and all I can find are a couple of ulta-lights and 1 Sonex. Has anyone seen one in a 601? John Hines www.johnsplane.com John Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Tel: 479-878-2449 Mob: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:40 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL William: First and foremost, my project is not finished and has not flown. So take this for what it's worth. There's more to this discussion than money. I've not heard a lot of talk on the limit switch issue but I think it deserves a look. The ZAC supplied, costly actuator has external limit switches that you must adjust. These are fragile and have a lot of nuts and bolts, wires etc. exposed. I looked at doing the same thing with an automobile window or seat motor, but it brought me right back to the exposed limit switches since the thing needs to know to stop at end of travel. I ended up with a 75 lb. actuator that works very well and has internal limit switches so the trick is to set it up to use all of the travel in both directions. Very simple, really and it's a much cleaner installation. I read recently on this list where a factory-built 601XL had a problem with an external limit switch. Predictable. Here are a few photos of what I ended up with. There are more photos on my "fuselage" page: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_04_Flaps.JPG http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_17_04_Actuator.JPG The last one has the part number for the actuator if you look closely. I also looked into making a trim servo from an automobile side-view mirror motor. I got pretty far with this and it was looking promising until guess-what? The limit switches just became too complicated and bulky so I saved up some money and purchased a RAC (MAC) servo. The first thing I did was take it apart and void the warranty to see what was inside. And what do you know it had some baby limit switches tucked neatly inside. This little device was worth every penny. Here's a picture in case you are interested: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/RAC_Innards.JPG Here's my poor attempt at the same thing: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/TrimMotor3.JPG Have fun, Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ Houston, we have a working radio! --- William Murray wrote: > Being a penny pinching school teacher, I found the > price and weight for the spec'd flap actuator motor > to > be too much. My question is this..... have they flown > with > them yet? 25 lbs seems to be too small a force to > overcome the wind pressure on both flaps at Vfe or > below. How are other frugal builders actuating their > flaps? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:43 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" FWIW, I have 500 hrs on my 601HD with hingeless ailerons. I too asked Chris before building about it. He told me about the test they performed. I'm a A&P with 50 years in aircraft maintenance. From experience I know you will replace a worn out hinge before the 6061 will crack! Jim Hoak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clyde Barcus" Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" > > I was told by Gus at William Wynne's that the controls have a lighter > touch > at slow speed, which I prefer, they recently converted their plane to > hinge > type. Also, not everyone likes the idea of the unconventional hingeless > method, someday I will quit flying and I will need to sell my plane and I > want it to appeal to as many pilots as possible. It is really not a matter > of which is better, it is just preference, a lot like tri gear versus > conventional gear. There must be a fair amount of interest or ZAC would > not > have added it to the options after so many years. > > Clyde Barcus > 601X > > Do Not Archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Mulwitz" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:49 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >> >> >> OK guys. Now you have me curious. Why would you want piano hinge >> ailerons instead of the cool perfectly sealed ones in the standard >> design? I tried flying with the hingeless design on the factory >> demonstrator and found full aileron authority all the way down to >> stall speed. What more would you hope to gain with piano hinges? >> >> Paul >> XL wings >> >> >>>I converted mine from hingeless to hinge type after discussing it with >>>Chris >>>Heinz at Sun-N-Fun. I cut the over lap down from 40mm to 20mm, used 025 L >>>under the over lap. The hinge goes between the top skin and the L >>>channel, >>>it is quick and easy with very little additional weight. >>> >>>Clyde Barcus >>>601XL >> >> - >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:20 AM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" In my humble opinion, 75 lbs is massive overkill. Stop and think about it for a minute. The ZAC system is a leverage system. In other words the pressure needed at your hand, which is what the actuator load is duplicating, is far less than would be needed at the actual flap. I have no idea how much differential it is but would think some where around 5 to 1. In a 701 the flap control is located on the left side of the pilot near the floor. If anyone thinks they can extend their left hand straight down and excerpt over 25 lbs of pressure then they are pretty strong. Just for grins I put my left hand extended on a scale and tried to hold or push and was having a hard time and shaking at 21.5 lbs. If you put your actuator as a direct connect to the flaps, then more power will be needed, but that's not the way to do it. Twenty five lbs is more than sufficient for the 701. Speed, I've have people tell me that my actuator was too fast. My answer is to ask this question, "is it as fast as your hand moving the flap lever from 0 to 30 degrees in one swift move?" The answer is NO. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "N5SL" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > William: > > First and foremost, my project is not finished and has > not flown. So take this for what it's worth. > > There's more to this discussion than money. I've not > heard a lot of talk on the limit switch issue but I > think it deserves a look. > > The ZAC supplied, costly actuator has external limit > switches that you must adjust. These are fragile and > have a lot of nuts and bolts, wires etc. exposed. I > looked at doing the same thing with an automobile > window or seat motor, but it brought me right back to > the exposed limit switches since the thing needs to > know to stop at end of travel. > > I ended up with a 75 lb. actuator that works very well > and has internal limit switches so the trick is to set > it up to use all of the travel in both directions. > Very simple, really and it's a much cleaner > installation. I read recently on this list where a > factory-built 601XL had a problem with an external > limit switch. Predictable. > > Here are a few photos of what I ended up with. There > are more photos on my "fuselage" page: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_04_Flaps.JPG > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_17_04_Actuator.JPG > > The last one has the part number for the actuator if > you look closely. > > I also looked into making a trim servo from an > automobile side-view mirror motor. I got pretty far > with this and it was looking promising until > guess-what? The limit switches just became too > complicated and bulky so I saved up some money and > purchased a RAC (MAC) servo. The first thing I did > was take it apart and void the warranty to see what > was inside. And what do you know it had some baby > limit switches tucked neatly inside. This little > device was worth every penny. Here's a picture in > case you are interested: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/RAC_Innards.JPG > > Here's my poor attempt at the same thing: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/TrimMotor3.JPG > > Have fun, > > Scott Laughlin > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ > Houston, we have a working radio! > > > --- William Murray wrote: > >> Being a penny pinching school teacher, I found the >> price and weight for the spec'd flap actuator motor >> to >> be too much. My question is this..... have they > flown >> with >> them yet? 25 lbs seems to be too small a force to >> overcome the wind pressure on both flaps at Vfe or >> below. How are other frugal builders actuating their >> flaps? > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:20 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com Aaron Adding a couple of diodes to your limit switches will make that seat motor reversible. I used one to open a skylight in my shop that can not be easily reached. Carroll Jernigan XL ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:36 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: I second the motion. The demo plane had no lack of aileron response and neither did it have a stiff feel in the least. That plane has just short of 1,000 hours on it and the paint was not cracked nor was the "hinge" skin. I was dubious about that feature before but I see no problem with it now. I recommend building it hingeless.... just my opinion of course, Ed > OK guys. Now you have me curious. I tried flying with the hingeless design on the factory > demonstrator and found full aileron authority all the way down to > stall speed. What more would you hope to gain with piano hinges? > > Paul ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Phoenix From: James Sagerser --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Sagerser On 2/7/06 8:24 AM, "Charles Deiterich" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Deiterich" > > Hal had the flu around the first of the year and was in the hospital but > was supposed to go home. I have not heard anything since then. > Chuck D. > N701TX > > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" >> >> Listers, >> >> Has anyone had contact with Hal Rozema of Phoenix, AZ? His 701 web site >> is >> down and he hasn't posted anything on this list for some time now. >> >> Regards, >> >> Tommy Walker in Alabama >> Do Not Archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > I have some new information; I spoke with his wife Jackie last night. Hal has had some serious health challenges including two types of influenzas, Valley Fever, and other complications. He is still in the hospital but happy to report, he is recovering (just go out of another 3 weeks in the ICU). Under the circumstances, he asked Jackie to sell his project, which she recently did, to a local person who plans to have it flying in 3 months. He will take Hal flying when hes better. Hal said the most important thing about building the 701 was not the airplane itself but the friends he met along the way. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:19 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Gift Horse and Bad Teeth) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Larry: I thought about it for a minute then remembered "Never look a gift horse in the mouth." For what it's worth, my actuator was given to me and it would have been rude (and stupid) to refuse it or complain because it wasn't the 25lb model. My model number is S12-17A8-04. The 25lb model is S12-09A4-04. You can see the spec. sheet on this unit here: http://www.powerdrives.com/electrak/S12-09A4-04.htm If you aren't lucky like me, you can purchase one for under $200 brand new. No extra parts required to make it stop at the end of travel both ways. To make it work electrically, all you need is a reversing toggle switch from steinair.com, Part no. SA-806 ($14.50) which is momentary with the center off and it reverses polarity with an up or down flip of the switch. The actuator stops at the end of travel or if you let go of the switch. I can't see a reason why this is not better than the ZAC supplied material. But then again theirs has flown and mine just decorates my garage. Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ Where it's snowing sideways outside --- Larry wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" > > > In my humble opinion, 75 lbs is massive overkill. > Stop and think about it for a minute. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:39 AM PST US From: "Allen Ricks" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 quick build kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" Howdy again Mike, Last I heard they did not have plans for a 701 quick build. The plan for the 701 was to make an upgraded model with a higher gross, label it the 750, and sell it as a S-LSA. Chris stated that he did not plan to sell the 750 in any kit form. This was as of about a year ago. I'm not sure if much has been done towards building the 750 or not, as I have seen no updates since I saw the article mentioning the 750. Allen Ricks Beaverton, OR -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Elwood140@aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:36 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 quick build kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com In a message dated 2/16/2006 7:27:07 AM Central Standard Time, pedfly60@yahoo.com writes: Does anyone know if zenith plans to offer the 701 as a quick build kit? Thank you, Mike Pedri, Beckley, WV Mike, go to _www.Zenithair.com_ (http://www.Zenithair.com) and ask Nick or Sebastien that question. Regards, Larry Wood (N701LW this year maybe) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:00 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Zenith-List: 0-200 Mount --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" I'm planning on building a mount for an 0-200 (yes I'm giving up on the Subaru!) but if anyone happened to have a spare mount for a HD/HDS/0-200, That would save me time. Or if anyone has modified an existing mount and would have recommendations, please contact me directly. Thanks Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:08 AM PST US From: japhillipsga@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: (Gift Horse and Bad Teeth) --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com Scott, I flew 1.1 hrs this morning. I put it down as a "Mental Health morning" for pay purposes. I needed a bit of time above 5000 feet to clear my head and feed the spirit. Sorry to read it's snowing sideways there. Here in Georgia it was warm and smooth. Soon, you to can curse the weather (as if that helps). Regards, Bill 601XL-3300 (55.2 hours) -----Original Message----- From: N5SL Sent: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:31:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Gift Horse and Bad Teeth) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Larry: I thought about it for a minute then remembered "Never look a gift horse in the mouth." For what it's worth, my actuator was given to me and it would have been rude (and stupid) to refuse it or complain because it wasn't the 25lb model. My model number is S12-17A8-04. The 25lb model is S12-09A4-04. You can see the spec. sheet on this unit here: http://www.powerdrives.com/electrak/S12-09A4-04.htm If you aren't lucky like me, you can purchase one for under $200 brand new. No extra parts required to make it stop at the end of travel both ways. To make it work electrically, all you need is a reversing toggle switch from steinair.com, Part no. SA-806 ($14.50) which is momentary with the center off and it reverses polarity with an up or down flip of the switch. The actuator stops at the end of travel or if you let go of the switch. I can't see a reason why this is not better than the ZAC supplied material. But then again theirs has flown and mine just decorates my garage. Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ Where it's snowing sideways outside --- Larry wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" > > > In my humble opinion, 75 lbs is massive overkill. > Stop and think about it for a minute. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:27 AM PST US From: japhillipsga@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) --> Zenith-List message posted by: japhillipsga@aol.com Scott, I just read the post about a flap motor actuator that weighs 75 pounds. That's got to be a mis- print, isn't it ? -----Original Message----- From: N5SL Sent: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:18:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL William: First and foremost, my project is not finished and has not flown. So take this for what it's worth. There's more to this discussion than money. I've not heard a lot of talk on the limit switch issue but I think it deserves a look. The ZAC supplied, costly actuator has external limit switches that you must adjust. These are fragile and have a lot of nuts and bolts, wires etc. exposed. I looked at doing the same thing with an automobile window or seat motor, but it brought me right back to the exposed limit switches since the thing needs to know to stop at end of travel. I ended up with a 75 lb. actuator that works very well and has internal limit switches so the trick is to set it up to use all of the travel in both directions. Very simple, really and it's a much cleaner installation. I read recently on this list where a factory-built 601XL had a problem with an external limit switch. Predictable. Here are a few photos of what I ended up with. There are more photos on my "fuselage" page: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_04_Flaps.JPG http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_17_04_Actuator.JPG The last one has the part number for the actuator if you look closely. I also looked into making a trim servo from an automobile side-view mirror motor. I got pretty far with this and it was looking promising until guess-what? The limit switches just became too complicated and bulky so I saved up some money and purchased a RAC (MAC) servo. The first thing I did was take it apart and void the warranty to see what was inside. And what do you know it had some baby limit switches tucked neatly inside. This little device was worth every penny. Here's a picture in case you are interested: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/RAC_Innards.JPG Here's my poor attempt at the same thing: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/TrimMotor3.JPG Have fun, Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ Houston, we have a working radio! --- William Murray wrote: > Being a penny pinching school teacher, I found the > price and weight for the spec'd flap actuator motor > to > be too much. My question is this..... have they flown > with > them yet? 25 lbs seems to be too small a force to > overcome the wind pressure on both flaps at Vfe or > below. How are other frugal builders actuating their > flaps? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:04 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Aviation Thoughts From: "Beckman, Rick" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" Just thought some humor might be in order....... DO NOT ARCHIVE Aviation Thoughts 1. No matter what else happens, fly the airplane. Forget all that stuff about thrust and drag, lift and gravity; an airplane flies because of money. 2.It's better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here. 3. If you're ever faced with a forced landing at night, turn on the landing lights to see the landing area. If you don't like what you see, turn' em back off. 4. A check ride ought to be like a skirt, short enough to be interesting but still be long enough to cover everything. 5. Speed is life, altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky! 6. Always remember you fly an airplane with your head, not your hands. 7. Never let an airplane take you somewhere your brain didn't get to Five minutes earlier. 8. "Unskilled" pilots are always found in the wreckage with their hand around the microphone. 9. If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger; if you pull the stick back, they get smaller. (Unless you keep pulling the stick back-then they get bigger again.) 10. Hovering is for pilots who love to fly but have no place to go. 11. The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. 12. Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man. Landing is the first! 13.Everyone already knows the definition of a 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. But very few know the definition of a 'great' landing. It's one after which you can use the airplane another time. 14. The probability of survival is equal to the angle of arrival. 15. IFR: I Follow Roads. 16. Those who hoot with the owls by night should not fly with the eagles by day. 17.A helicopter is a collection of rotating parts going round and round and reciprocating parts going up and down - all of them trying to become random in motion. 18. Helicopters can't really fly - they're just so ugly that the earth immediately repels them. 19. Pilots believe in clean living. They never drink whiskey from a dirty glass. 20.Things which do you no good in aviation: Altitude above you. Runway behind you. Fuel in the truck. Half a second ago. Approach plates in the car. The airspeed you don't have. 21. If God meant man to fly, He'd have given him more money. 22. Flying is not dangerous; crashing is dangerous. 23. A good simulator check ride is like successful surgery on a corpse. 24. Asking what a pilot thinks about the FAA is like asking a tree what it thinks about dogs. 25. Trust your captain but keep your seat belt securely fastened. 26. An airplane may disappoint a good pilot, but it won't surprise him. 27.Any pilot who relies on a terminal forecast can be sold the Brooklyn Bridge. If he relies on winds-aloft reports he can be sold Niagara Falls. 28. The friendliest flight attendants are those on the trip home. 29. Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment. 30. Being an airline pilot would be great if you didn't have to go on all those trips. 31. Aviation is not so much a profession as it is a disease. 32. The nicer an airplane looks, the better it flies. 33. There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are. 34. It's a good landing if you can still get the doors open. 35. Passengers prefer old captains and young flight attendants. 36.The only thing worse than a captain who never flew as copilot is a copilot who once was a captain. 37. It's best to keep the pointed end going forward as much as possible. 38. If an earthquake suddenly opened a fissure in a runway that caused an accident, the FAA would find a way to blame it on pilot error. 39. Any attempt to stretch fuel is guaranteed to increase headwind. 40. A thunderstorm is never as bad on the inside as it appears on the outside. It's worse. 41.It's easy to make a small fortune in aviation. You start with a large fortune. 42.A male pilot is a confused soul who talks about women when he's flying, and about flying when he's with a woman. 43. A fool and his money are soon flying more airplane than he can handle. 44. Try to keep the number of your landings equal to the number of your takeoffs. 45. Takeoffs are optional. Landings are mandatory. 46. You cannot propel yourself forward by patting yourself on the back. 47.The difference between a fighter pilot & a pig? A pig doesn't sit at a bar until 0300 waiting to pick up on a fighter pilot. AUTHOR UNKNOWN DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:35 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator WEIGHT --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Bill: I guess I wasn't very clear on that. I should have stated the load capacity is 75 lbs. It weighs the same as the 25 lb unit at 1.35 lbs. I don't know the weight of the ZAC unit. Enjoy that warm Georgia weather. I'll enjoy blasting through the snow on my way home from work. Scott Laughlin Still snowing sideways outside. --- japhillipsga@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > japhillipsga@aol.com > > Scott, I just read the post about a flap motor > actuator that weighs 75 pounds. That's got to be a > mis- print, isn't it ? DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Phoenix From: James Sagerser --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Sagerser On 2/7/06 8:24 AM, "Charles Deiterich" wrote: I have some new information; I spoke with his wife Jackie last night. Hal has had some serious health challenges including two types of influenzas, Valley Fever, and other complications. He is still in the hospital but happy to report, he is recovering (just go out of another 3 weeks in the ICU). Under the circumstances, he asked Jackie to sell his project, which she recently did, to a local person who plans to have it flying in 3 months. He will take Hal flying when he's better. Hal said the most important thing about building the 701 was not the airplane itself but the friends he met along the way. Do Not Archive > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Deiterich" > > Hal had the flu around the first of the year and was in the hospital but > was supposed to go home. I have not heard anything since then. > Chuck D. > N701TX > > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" >> >> Listers, >> >> Has anyone had contact with Hal Rozema of Phoenix, AZ? His 701 web site >> is >> down and he hasn't posted anything on this list for some time now. >> >> Regards, >> >> Tommy Walker in Alabama >> Do Not Archive > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:12 AM PST US From: "Allen Ricks" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator WEIGHT --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" The Zenith unit weighs 4.45 lbs. Just went out to the garage and weighed it. Heavy bugger. Allen Ricks Beaverton, OR -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of N5SL Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator WEIGHT --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Bill: I guess I wasn't very clear on that. I should have stated the load capacity is 75 lbs. It weighs the same as the 25 lb unit at 1.35 lbs. I don't know the weight of the ZAC unit. Enjoy that warm Georgia weather. I'll enjoy blasting through the snow on my way home from work. Scott Laughlin Still snowing sideways outside. --- japhillipsga@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > japhillipsga@aol.com > > Scott, I just read the post about a flap motor > actuator that weighs 75 pounds. That's got to be a > mis- print, isn't it ? DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:22 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates I have the "hingless ailerons" and see no reason anyone would want piano hinges. Just in the interest of accuracy - From Chris Hines' article: "...and the deflection of the aileron a maximum of +/- 15 degrees...in a relatively short period, the cycles from the statistics could be applied to the deflection of the aileron for an aircraft utilization of 10,000 flying hours. No crack (not even chipped paint) was noticed....After that, and just to know if by any bad luck it did crack, do I have to repair it in the field, or can I fly safely home and fix it in the shop? I cut a 1/8" notch at both inboard and outboard ends of the flex area with snips and restarted running the tests. After the equivalent of another 3 hours, the notch had developed into a crack reaching on one end the first rivet, and on the other end the second rivet through the wing skin and rear channel. The test was then continued for the equivalent of another 10,000 flying hours with no further deterioration." Leo Gates N601Z Jeffrey J Paris wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeffrey J Paris" > > >Mr. CoJo, > >Chris Heintz's hingeless/aileron gap seal design for the ailerons is ingenious to say the least. The simplicity of design and very thorough testing, ie. 300,000 plus 180 degree deflections of the aluminium "hinge" with a 2 inch cut into the material yielded no fatigue in the cut. I was told this by my building mentor who scratch built his 601 and has built 3 other planes before this last one. He is a retired machinist and sheet metal expert at Xerox during his working years and he has had this very talk with Chris Heintz. > >I have been flying my CH601XL for 50 hours and the design as it stands makes for a simple, affordable, easily maintained and sound aircraft. Remember the KISS acronym "keep it simple stu..." and Chris does, Hingeless is where it is at! For what it is worth... just adding my 2 cents worth. > >Jeff Paris >N196ZP Jabiru 3300 CH601XL > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:51 PM PST US From: Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Women Building Zeniths --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry McFarland Jennifer, Pleased to have you among the builders here. There's lots of knowledge within the archives and responses here are unusually civil for this medium. I'd mention that it is also really useful to join an EAA chapter if you have one locally. Our Chapter 75 has one young lady building a 4-place Cozy (similar to a wide Rutan VariEazy). The 601XL is a nice design that lends itself to a really good build experience and it's a great aircraft to fly. Zenith will sell you just the pieces you find too tooling-intensive if you ask. The rest are generally easily made per print from scratch if your budget's tight. I'm a scratch builder and thoroughly enjoyed the 5-1/2-year process of building per plans. Zenith was very responsive despite the fact that I only purchased a few items like canopy-bubble, wheels, brakes and a radiator kit for a Subaru. Good people! My advise is that the project is only one piece at a time, go slowly and enjoy the process. Good luck and if you goof up a part, consider remaking that part from the drawings. If you have difficulty with a process or method here, visit my site and consider the images or journal presented there that might help you get the job done. Good luck and do ask questions as they occur, we're going to be hoping to hear more of your progress. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Jennifer Moorhouse wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jennifer Moorhouse > >In reply to Robert Sceppa's question of women building Zeniths, I don't know how many of us there are, but I'm another woman who just started building a 601 XL. > I've been kind of lurking the list for a little while since finding out about it from a fellow builder and list member. I built my rudder in my living room a couple of years ago and was postponed building more until moving to a new area of the state, getting married, buying a house, and having a baby. I started trying to scratch build more of the empennage while I was pregnant, but, even with help, couldn't get long pieces of metal, spars and doublers, bent on my home-made brake without them coming out bowed. I decided to save a bit of money up and just placed an order for the tail kit. It's a relief really, knowing the parts will be made correctly and having the skins pre-drilled. I wish I had enough cash to buy the whole kit or even someone else's partially built kit, but I don't. > My husband is a pilot as well, so I'm not totally alone building our plane, but I work fewer hours and have more time for the project. I hope to have it completed and flying before our daughter is old enough for her license. Until then, we'll stay current in a rented 152, 172, or Diamond Katana. > > Jennifer Moorhouse > do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:41 PM PST US From: nyterminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? --> Zenith-List message posted by: nyterminat@aol.com Surplus supply has seat moters with acme screw actuators, some have suggested an automotive one from an outfit in California. It starts with an Fand ends in an I, I,m sorry I just traveled to Ghana so I don,t have my records with me. Check the archives. I used them, it was on sale for $99.00, used a 3 inch stroke but only need about 2 inch. I moved the limit switches to what stroke I needed. I have used it in my 701 and am quite pleased with it. They have 175 lb force and only takes a few seconds for full travel. Bob Spudis N701ZX 912S -----Original Message----- From: Craig Payne Sent: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:48:10 -0700 Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Some have used electric windows motors. But I can't point to any specifics. Certainly these day when many cars come equipped with electric windows you stand a good chance of finding a bargain at a wrecking yard. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Murray Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:40 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Murray --> Being a penny pinching school teacher, I found the price and weight for the spec'd flap actuator motor to be too much. I scanned the archives and saw that a #25 linear actuator motor was being proposed by a few members. My question is this..... have they flown with them yet? 25 lbs seems to be too small a force to overcome the wind pressure on both flaps at Vfe or below. How are other frugal builders actuating their flaps? I have thought about using a "manual actuator" (a lever with detents for 0-30 degrees), but I'm building a dual stick version so it won't look like the prototype that Zenith Air built in which the lever was between the pilot's legs. I would love it to be near the center arm rest, but I also need a console and doubt that there will be space for both. HELP!!! Warmest Wishes in Olalla, WA William Murray tall_tech_teach@yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:12 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" The Zenith factory motor would have the same problem. See page 6-B-20 of the plans ("Air Scoop Cabin FRESH AIR VENT FLAP CIRCUIT") for the wiring that solves this problem. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Gustafson Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:11 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" --> I used a power seat motor from a Lincoln. One problem w/ these types of motors is that they use the same motor winding for both directions which presents an issue when you try to put a limit on the travel. If you put a cut out switch in the circuit, that switch also prevents reversing the motor, so won't work. If you rely on a physical stop, it is likely that the motor will bind and not reverse. Things to think about! Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:12 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I have its immediate predecessor but have only bench-flown it yet. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:18 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" --> Does anyone have the Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL. It looks like a pretty neat device and relatively inexpensive. I've done some searching on the net for current installs and all I can find are a couple of ulta-lights and 1 Sonex. Has anyone seen one in a 601? John Hines www.johnsplane.com John Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Tel: 479-878-2449 Mob: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:28 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Another alternative is to use a "Super" radio controlled aircraft servo. Some of these put out many pounds of thrust as they (like the MAC servos) take a small high speed motor and gear it way down. They are rated in many pounds of pounds of thrust. Control then it with this "Extremely General Purpose Non-MAC SERVO CONTROLLER" from Perihelion Design: http://periheliondesign.com/moreproductsfiles/ServoController.pdf This general approach can be used to move "things" from the control panel in many other situations. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL William: First and foremost, my project is not finished and has not flown. So take this for what it's worth. There's more to this discussion than money. I've not heard a lot of talk on the limit switch issue but I think it deserves a look. The ZAC supplied, costly actuator has external limit switches that you must adjust. These are fragile and have a lot of nuts and bolts, wires etc. exposed. I looked at doing the same thing with an automobile window or seat motor, but it brought me right back to the exposed limit switches since the thing needs to know to stop at end of travel. I ended up with a 75 lb. actuator that works very well and has internal limit switches so the trick is to set it up to use all of the travel in both directions. Very simple, really and it's a much cleaner installation. I read recently on this list where a factory-built 601XL had a problem with an external limit switch. Predictable. Here are a few photos of what I ended up with. There are more photos on my "fuselage" page: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_04_Flaps.JPG http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_17_04_Actuator.JPG The last one has the part number for the actuator if you look closely. I also looked into making a trim servo from an automobile side-view mirror motor. I got pretty far with this and it was looking promising until guess-what? The limit switches just became too complicated and bulky so I saved up some money and purchased a RAC (MAC) servo. The first thing I did was take it apart and void the warranty to see what was inside. And what do you know it had some baby limit switches tucked neatly inside. This little device was worth every penny. Here's a picture in case you are interested: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/RAC_Innards.JPG Here's my poor attempt at the same thing: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/TrimMotor3.JPG Have fun, Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ Houston, we have a working radio! --- William Murray wrote: > Being a penny pinching school teacher, I found the price and weight > for the spec'd flap actuator motor to be too much. My question is > this..... have they flown > with > them yet? 25 lbs seems to be too small a force to overcome the wind > pressure on both flaps at Vfe or below. How are other frugal builders > actuating their flaps? ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:28 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Actuation speed is not a problem unless the motor coasts in which case the motor over-shoots. There is a way to wire diodes into the switch circuit such that they "short" the windings which acts as a break. "All" I have to do is find the schematic for this. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" In my humble opinion, 75 lbs is massive overkill. Stop and think about it for a minute. The ZAC system is a leverage system. In other words the pressure needed at your hand, which is what the actuator load is duplicating, is far less than would be needed at the actual flap. I have no idea how much differential it is but would think some where around 5 to 1. In a 701 the flap control is located on the left side of the pilot near the floor. If anyone thinks they can extend their left hand straight down and excerpt over 25 lbs of pressure then they are pretty strong. Just for grins I put my left hand extended on a scale and tried to hold or push and was having a hard time and shaking at 21.5 lbs. If you put your actuator as a direct connect to the flaps, then more power will be needed, but that's not the way to do it. Twenty five lbs is more than sufficient for the 701. Speed, I've have people tell me that my actuator was too fast. My answer is to ask this question, "is it as fast as your hand moving the flap lever from 0 to 30 degrees in one swift move?" The answer is NO. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "N5SL" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Alternatives? (Limit Switches) > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > William: > > First and foremost, my project is not finished and has > not flown. So take this for what it's worth. > > There's more to this discussion than money. I've not > heard a lot of talk on the limit switch issue but I > think it deserves a look. > > The ZAC supplied, costly actuator has external limit > switches that you must adjust. These are fragile and > have a lot of nuts and bolts, wires etc. exposed. I > looked at doing the same thing with an automobile > window or seat motor, but it brought me right back to > the exposed limit switches since the thing needs to > know to stop at end of travel. > > I ended up with a 75 lb. actuator that works very well > and has internal limit switches so the trick is to set > it up to use all of the travel in both directions. > Very simple, really and it's a much cleaner > installation. I read recently on this list where a > factory-built 601XL had a problem with an external > limit switch. Predictable. > > Here are a few photos of what I ended up with. There > are more photos on my "fuselage" page: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_21_04_Flaps.JPG > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_17_04_Actuator.JPG > > The last one has the part number for the actuator if > you look closely. > > I also looked into making a trim servo from an > automobile side-view mirror motor. I got pretty far > with this and it was looking promising until > guess-what? The limit switches just became too > complicated and bulky so I saved up some money and > purchased a RAC (MAC) servo. The first thing I did > was take it apart and void the warranty to see what > was inside. And what do you know it had some baby > limit switches tucked neatly inside. This little > device was worth every penny. Here's a picture in > case you are interested: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/RAC_Innards.JPG > > Here's my poor attempt at the same thing: > > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/TrimMotor3.JPG > > Have fun, > > Scott Laughlin > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ > Houston, we have a working radio! > > > --- William Murray wrote: > >> Being a penny pinching school teacher, I found the >> price and weight for the spec'd flap actuator motor >> to >> be too much. My question is this..... have they > flown >> with >> them yet? 25 lbs seems to be too small a force to >> overcome the wind pressure on both flaps at Vfe or >> below. How are other frugal builders actuating their >> flaps? > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:01 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Actually the circuit in the 601XL plans (6-B-20) does this with no diodes. But it is not something I can describe in an e-mail. All that is needed is the two SPST limit switches and a DPDT, (momentary-off-momentary) toggle switch and some wire. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Trainnut01@aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com Aaron Adding a couple of diodes to your limit switches will make that seat motor reversible. I used one to open a skylight in my shop that can not be easily reached. Carroll Jernigan XL ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:51 PM PST US From: Ron Butterfield Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flap Actuator Motor Alternatives? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield At 04:43 PM 2/16/06, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > >Actually the circuit in the 601XL plans (6-B-20) does this with no diodes. >But it is not something I can describe in an e-mail. All that is needed is >the two SPST limit switches and a DPDT, (momentary-off-momentary) toggle >switch and some wire. Let me try to describe it (without looking at the drawings ;-) ) The DPDT switch will connect separate wires for travel in either direction. The limit switch for that end of travel is put in the wire that is switched for travel in that direction. So, when it reaches the end of it's travel in one way, the wires for driving the motor that direction are disconnected, but it can still be driven the other way. > Regards, RonB ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:47 PM PST US From: "jnbolding1" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith float keel strips --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" Group, There are several of you that are either building or planning to build Zenith alum floats for your 601/701. The ONLY part that is hard to acquire is the extruded keel and it is a special extrusion that Zenith had made and now Czech Aircraft/Skyshops has it. Danny , the gentleman that he is, has agreed to provide a shipment of keel strip material for us scratch builders if we can get together a large enough order to make it worthwhile. He hasn't given me a price yet as I assume that is contigent on quantity so let's just get a count of how many would be interested if the price/shipping were right so we can give him a rough number to work on, I'm gonna get enough for 2 sets in case repair is needed down the road er river. I'll keep score and report to Danny and we'll go from there. LOW&SLOW John Bolding ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:22 PM PST US From: "Bill+Rose" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aviation Thoughts --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beckman, Rick" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Aviation Thoughts > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" > > Just thought some humor might be in order....... DO NOT > ARCHIVE Rick- Better proofread your jokes better- someone snuck in a profound statement! Bill > 29. Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad > judgment. > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:33 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL - 2 X 2 Steel Beams --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" I have a question regarding the steel support beams for building the 601 XL. I purchased two 4' X 2" X 2" steel beams like we used in the workshop for the rudder, thinking that was all I would need. But when I looked ahead in the photo assembly guide, I noticed that they specify six 5' X 2" X 2" beams for building the wings. I can get these at a sheet metal shop, but it would cost me at least $70. For those of you who are building or have completed a 601 XL - should I just suck it up and spend the money to get them? Are they necessary for properly jigging the components? Or are there other cheaper options I can use? I have not been able to find anything at the local hardware or lumber outlets. I thought about using wood, but it is not dimensionally stable. Thanks in advance, Dave Van Lanen 601 XL - stabilizer ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:36 PM PST US From: William Jeffries Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Mice and Storage --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries Roland, Cats would sound like a good idea however I'd recommend hanging the wings by straps from the rafters. Still cover any openings with metal or even aluminum foil tape. Good luck. Bill Jeffries --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:01 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL - 2 X 2 Steel Beams --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" Many airplanes have been built on wood beams and tables. Wood is fairly stable if you don't take several heating and cooling seasons to build. But even then I don't think it will make much difference. Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave VanLanen" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:58 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL - 2 X 2 Steel Beams > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > > I have a question regarding the steel support beams for building the 601 > XL. > I purchased two 4' X 2" X 2" steel beams like we used in the workshop for > the rudder, thinking that was all I would need. But when I looked ahead > in > the photo assembly guide, I noticed that they specify six 5' X 2" X 2" > beams > for building the wings. I can get these at a sheet metal shop, but it > would > cost me at least $70. For those of you who are building or have completed > a > 601 XL - should I just suck it up and spend the money to get them? Are > they > necessary for properly jigging the components? Or are there other cheaper > options I can use? I have not been able to find anything at the local > hardware or lumber outlets. I thought about using wood, but it is not > dimensionally stable. > > Thanks in advance, > Dave Van Lanen > 601 XL - stabilizer > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:52 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker John, I have a Stratomaster Ultra XL installed. I am not flying yet, but getting close. The unit is easy to install, using the RDAC unit for all wiring fwd of the firewall. I will send some pictures of my installation to your personal address. I am currently building a website, and will post there in the next couple of weeks for everyone to see. You may hold out for the color unit they have been working on for a while. It will have moving map GPS. Check out sportflyingshop.com. Matt is good at answering e-mail questions. I flew up to El Monte, Ca. to inspect the unit before buying, and he is quite helpful. R/ Brandon Fuselage painted Working on flames! Waiting on nitrited crank Do not archive ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:28 PM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL - 2 X 2 Steel Beams --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" I got 3" x 3" square steel tubes from a metal surplus warehouse (local). The cost was nominal, and they were cut from longer lengths. However, they are extremely heavy and not pleasant to move around. Check the archives on this - I think that some have used PVC pipe. Robert Schoenberger 701 55% ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave VanLanen" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:58 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL - 2 X 2 Steel Beams > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > > I have a question regarding the steel support beams for building the 601 > XL. > I purchased two 4' X 2" X 2" steel beams like we used in the workshop for > the rudder, thinking that was all I would need. But when I looked ahead > in > the photo assembly guide, I noticed that they specify six 5' X 2" X 2" > beams > for building the wings. I can get these at a sheet metal shop, but it > would > cost me at least $70. For those of you who are building or have completed > a > 601 XL - should I just suck it up and spend the money to get them? Are > they > necessary for properly jigging the components? Or are there other cheaper > options I can use? I have not been able to find anything at the local > hardware or lumber outlets. I thought about using wood, but it is not > dimensionally stable. > > Thanks in advance, > Dave Van Lanen > 601 XL - stabilizer > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:36 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Phoenix --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Is good news to hear Hal is recovering, hope we can see a post of him once in a while, once he has the strenth to seat in front the computer... I bet Hal smiled when he knew we miss him. Also, How about inviting the new owner to the list? Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S Flying from Chapala, Mexico. James Sagerser wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Sagerser On 2/7/06 8:24 AM, "Charles Deiterich" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Deiterich" > > Hal had the flu around the first of the year and was in the hospital but > was supposed to go home. I have not heard anything since then. > Chuck D. > N701TX > > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" >> >> Listers, >> >> Has anyone had contact with Hal Rozema of Phoenix, AZ? His 701 web site >> is >> down and he hasn't posted anything on this list for some time now. >> >> Regards, >> >> Tommy Walker in Alabama >> Do Not Archive > I have some new information; I spoke with his wife Jackie last night. Hal has had some serious health challenges including two types of influenzas, Valley Fever, and other complications. He is still in the hospital but happy to report, he is recovering (just go out of another 3 weeks in the ICU). Under the circumstances, he asked Jackie to sell his project, which she recently did, to a local person who plans to have it flying in 3 months. He will take Hal flying when hes better. Hal said the most important thing about building the 701 was not the airplane itself but the friends he met along the way. Do Not Archive --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:45 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL - 2 X 2 Steel Beams --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Dave, I use ordinary 2x4 lumber instead of the steel beams. I think they are a vast improvement since it is easy to drive screws into them to attach them to the wood bench or to attach blocks for keeping your work in place instead of depending on a balancing act. My bench has a wood top, and I mounted around 5 2x4s across it. They are leveled and shimmed to form a nice flat top surface. I often lay 1x2s or 2x2s across these 2x4's to support things like wings and keep them from rolling around. Good luck, Paul XL wings >I have a question regarding the steel support beams for building the 601 XL. >I purchased two 4' X 2" X 2" steel beams like we used in the workshop for >the rudder, thinking that was all I would need. But when I looked ahead in >the photo assembly guide, I noticed that they specify six 5' X 2" X 2" beams >for building the wings. I can get these at a sheet metal shop, but it would >cost me at least $70. For those of you who are building or have completed a >601 XL - should I just suck it up and spend the money to get them? Are they >necessary for properly jigging the components? Or are there other cheaper >options I can use? I have not been able to find anything at the local >hardware or lumber outlets. I thought about using wood, but it is not >dimensionally stable. > >Thanks in advance, >Dave Van Lanen >601 XL - stabilizer > > - ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:45 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I should mention that I am considering upgrading to the Ultra Horizon XL from my Stratomaster Ultra H for one reason: the H model only has one fuel level sender input while the XL has two. Very useful in a plane like the XL with wing tanks. So if anyone needs a unit for a single tank plane I can offer you a great deal }O) -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:18 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" --> Does anyone have the Stratomaster Ultra Horizon XL. It looks like a pretty neat device and relatively inexpensive. I've done some searching on the net for current installs and all I can find are a couple of ulta-lights and 1 Sonex. Has anyone seen one in a 601? John Hines www.johnsplane.com John Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Tel: 479-878-2449 Mob: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. 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