---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/19/06: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:55 AM - Re: Queer Electrons In N329F (Paul Mulwitz) 2. 05:35 AM - Re: Re: Fueling high wing aircraft. (Bob Unternaehrer) 3. 07:56 AM - 601 XL wing attachments (Terry Turnquist) 4. 08:57 AM - Re: Re: Fueling high wing aircraft. (Ed Jeffko) 5. 10:56 AM - Re: 601 XL wing attachments (N5SL) 6. 10:59 AM - Re: Crosswind - The First Step Toward the Next Flight (Scott) 7. 11:20 AM - Application for Airworthiness Certificate (Mike Sinclair) 8. 11:46 AM - Main Gear Bungees (601 HDS) (Roy Engelke) 9. 12:32 PM - Re: Main Gear Bungees (601 HDS) (Jim Hoak) 10. 01:44 PM - Re: Main Gear Bungees (601 HDS) (Don Walker) 11. 03:14 PM - Re: Queer Electrons In N329F (george may) 12. 07:43 PM - Re: Queer Electrons In N329F (Brandon Tucker) 13. 08:09 PM - Wing walk tape (Brandon Tucker) 14. 08:16 PM - Intercom Recommendation (Brandon Tucker) 15. 08:16 PM - Re: Application for Airworthiness Certificate (Randy Stout) 16. 11:33 PM - Re: Wing walk tape (xl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:41 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Queer Electrons In N329F --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Keying a transmitter without an antenna attached is likely to destroy the transmitter. The correct way to do this test is to attach the transmitter to a dummy load - a high power resistor usually cooled by a gallon of oil. Perhaps a simpler way to test this theory is to use a portable comm transmitter either attached to the same antenna or transmit near the same antenna and see if this has an impact on the LED indicator. If you want to try the ceramic capacitor trick, install the caps at the same end of the servo wires as the indicator. Good luck, Paul WARNING - I used to be an electrical engineer - now I am just a bum. >What happens if the antenna lead isn't plugged to the back of the radio? - ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:08 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fueling high wing aircraft. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" Sounds like heck of a good Idea. Wonder why you didn't just use the copper wires in the light real for the ground. Cu is better just won't take the abuse at the airport. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: "BobTezyk" Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fueling high wing aircraft. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk" > > This may be overkill for what you want to accomplish but about 12 years ago, I built a re-fueling trailer for a Cessna 150 (and later my E35 Bonanza) I owned and ran on autogas. It worked out much better than I anticipated and more than paid for itself over buying AVGas that fouled my plugs. > > It consisted of one of those cheap trailer kits (4'x8' but a 4'X6' would work), a 100 gallon rectangular fuel tank, a marine deep cycle battery with box, a battery float charger, a large alligator clip, a cheap work light on a retractable reel, 25' of steel cloths line coated in vinyl, a 12 v 13 gpm pump purchased from a farm store and a fuel totalizer. > > The hose that came with the pump was 12' long with a ground wire built in. I bought a second 12' hose and a coupler to make a 24' hose. I gutted the retractable work light and replaced the electrical cord with the cloths line and mounted the alligator clip to the end of the cable to make a retractable ground line. The tank, battery box, battery, grounding reel were mounted on a sheet of 1/2 inch plywood decking and the pump was mounted on the tank. The whole thing was grounded together using 1 inch ground strap. > > I would fill it up on the way out to the airport and leave it in the hangar until it required re-filling. Never had a problem with it. The motors on the gasoline refueling pumps are sealed to avoid any sparking from the motor. I just followed the same procedure the refueling trucks used when they refuel any other airplane - ground the airplane to the refueler, turn on the pump, fuel, turn off the pump, remove the ground strap from the plane. > > I am currently loaning it to a neighbor as I am between airplanes right now but I will take some pictures of it in the next week or so and post them to this thread. > > Regards, > Bob Tezyk > > -------- > Regards, > > Bob Tezyk > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13254#13254 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:45 AM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL wing attachments --> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Turnquist Hello All, I'm a scratch builder working on the wings and am wondering how others handled the drilling and fitting of the wings to center spar. Sequence of events etc. Terry Turnquist St. Peters, MO --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:47 AM PST US From: "Ed Jeffko" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fueling high wing aircraft. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Jeffko" Ck your local codes. Here in eastern Wa. we are only allowed about 50 gal. without a building permit. Anything over that kicks in a whole bunch of draconian regs, permits , etc. Our airport is in the city limits and owned by the city, so maybe the county would be more flexable? I had a 300 gal. gravity flow tank that worked great for my PA 140, even had an inline filter. Had to dismantle it. Ed Jeffko Tonasket Wa ----- Original Message ----- From: "BobTezyk" Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 7:59 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fueling high wing aircraft. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk" > > > It consisted of one of those cheap trailer kits (4'x8' but a 4'X6' would work), a 100 gallon rectangular fuel tank, a marine deep cycle battery with box, a battery float charger, a large alligator clip, a cheap work light on a retractable reel, 25' of steel cloths line coated in vinyl, a 12 v 13 gpm pump purchased from a farm store and a fuel totalizer. > > > > > > Regards, > Bob Tezyk > > -------- > Regards, > > Bob Tezyk > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=13254#13254 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:56:27 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 XL wing attachments --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Hi Terry: I created a full-sized drawing in Visio and plotted it 100% size. I then inserted the first wing spar into the center spar and taped the drawing to the assembled spars. I then clamped it all together and made everything match up to the drawing. Then I used a punch to mark the holes through the paper. I then drilled the holes and reamed them according to the drawings. Here's a photo just before drilling: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_19_03_SparAttachAngle.JPG (The wing spar is on the left and center spar on the right) Here's what it looked like bolted together: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_24_03_Dihedral.JPG I turned a few "bullets" out of aluminum to insert in each hole for a tight fit after it was reamed so nothing would move when drilling the second hole. I can't remember why I didn't use bolts but there was a reason (maybe I didn't have any at the time.) This was of course before starting on the wings or fuselage. I can't see how you would do it after the center spar is installed on the fuselage. You can see the center spar slot in this photo taken a little over a year after drilling the spars: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/12_28_04_Maingear.JPG and the wing spar insert here on the bottom wing: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_12_05_Wingsdone.JPG I remember this took WAY longer than it had to because I checked and triple-checked that I had the spars facing the right way and that the holes would drill through the center of the wingspars. I even remember checking it weeks later to make sure I had done it properly because I started having doubts. I've installed the right wing and it seems to fit well. I haven't installed both wings yet to check everything so take this advice for what it's worth. Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Turnquist > > > Hello All, > > I'm a scratch builder working on the wings and am > wondering how others handled the drilling and > fitting of the wings to center spar. Sequence of > events etc. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:00 AM PST US From: Scott Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Crosswind - The First Step Toward the Next Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott Good Afternoon Dave... It's good to hear you are in positive spirits after the accident and armed with a game plan to get back in the air. I have been building my 801 powered by a Mazda Rx7 engine since the spring of 2002( who knew it would take as long as putting the kit together to get the fwf together ). That background aside I would like to agree with you on several points: - The ZAC fuel caps require supplemental vents. On a ground test of 20gph on a tank the tank sucked itself inwards. Subsequent tests of the remaining 3 fuel caps in my kit revealed the same behaviors. Brazing in a bung at the neck was a simple affair. Have a look at the hts2000 brazing rods( http://www.aluminumrepair.com/aluminum_repair.htm ) if you wish to do it yourself. - Radiant heat in a engine compartment is not fuels friend. Simply creating a barrier between the source and the destination is sufficient. It can be as simple as a piece of .025 aluminum with a piece of Fiberfrax. Or similar boiler or kiln insulation. Of course wrapping the exhaust tubes will be more than sufficient and by keeping the exhaust gas temps up you could increase the velocity in the tubes and possibly gain some benefits there as well. - With our gravity feed systems there is always head pressure. As such for vapor lock to have occurred in the environmental conditions you describe with a stock ZAC 801 o360 FWF layout would seem possible, but not necessarily at the top of the list. Though, Sherlock Holmes said on many an occasion, "When you have eliminated all which is possible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." You mention you only traveled 1 mile, did you by chance notice you vertical speed descent rate? Was the propeller windmilling? Good Luck on your return to flight program :-) -Scott ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:46 AM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Zenith-List: Application for Airworthiness Certificate --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Hi Guys Maybe some of you have been in this situation before, and if so I could use a little guidance. As a part of the latest rebuild I have changed engines from a 912UL to a 912ULS. Per the operating limitations sec. 19, and per the letter of concurence I got yesterday from our local Aviation Safety Inspector (Airworthiness) I have to fill out a revised Form 8130-6 (application for airworthiness certificate). I have a couple of questions. 1. Section IV of form 8130-6 (Inspection Agency Verification) says to complete only if 14 CFR part 21.183(d) applies. As best I can figure part 21.183(d) would not apply to this aircraft, but there is some doubt. ???? 2. Section V (FAA Representative Certification). Does this engine change require a complete new DAR or FAA inspection? Still have to do engine run ups, sync the carbs, set the idle, possible tweak prop pitch. And get the final paperwork out of the way, then I can get this bird back in the air. But as usual the most confusing part seems to be the paperwork. I will try to get ahold of our FAA guy tomorrow, but was hoping that I could get things a little clearer in my mind before I do. Thanks Mike Sinclair N701TD ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:50 AM PST US From: "Roy Engelke" Subject: Zenith-List: Main Gear Bungees (601 HDS) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roy Engelke" After over 550 landings my main gear bungees are starting to stretch. The nose gear bungee has already been replaced. Is there "any way" to replace the main gear bungies without removing the lower bearing support and the dreaded seven bolts per side that are virtually impossible to remove and reinstall? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:22 PM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Main Gear Bungees (601 HDS) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" Roy, I'm curious, how much does your airplane weigh and how old is it. My 601 HD (EW 641 lbs) is nine years old and has 699 landings (500.3 hrs) and the main gear bungees have the outer covering frayed but are not stretching at all yet. I replaced the nose gear bungee because it was frayed when it had 304.8 hrs and 432 landings. Had to use a razor blade to cut it to get it off. I should have left it on there some longer because it had not begun to stretch at all and still had full bungee effect; just looked bad. The one on there now actually looks worse than the one I took off. I am using the 1080HD bungees supplied by ZAC. The new one on the nose gear actually let the top gear plate set slightly higher than the one I removed. I.E. don't change them before you need to. As for the problem of removing and reinstalling those dreaded bolts, now everyone knows why I took the time and effort to install nutplates on strips that will make this job easy when I have to do it. Back when I wrote an article for the Zenith Newsletter years ago describing how I did it, even Chris H. questioned why I went to the expense and effort. I'm a retired A I know airplanes require maintenance! It seems to me you are probably going to have to use one of the processes such as grease, tape and bent wrenches that most folks talk about. Those who are still building A/C with bungee gear take heed! If you keep it long enough you will have to work on it! Jim Hoak do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Engelke" Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 2:44 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Main Gear Bungees (601 HDS) > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roy Engelke" > > After over 550 landings my main gear bungees are starting to stretch. The > nose gear bungee has already been replaced. > Is there "any way" to replace the main gear bungies without removing the > lower bearing support and the dreaded seven bolts per side that are > virtually impossible to remove and reinstall? > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:25 PM PST US From: "Don Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Main Gear Bungees (601 HDS) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Don Walker" the nutplate strips is a great idea. Wish I has done that. However, the most difficult thing to deal with in the process of working with the dreaded bolts is one's impatience. If you get past that, then it is not a tough job. don walker ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Hoak To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Main Gear Bungees (601 HDS) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" > Roy, I'm curious, how much does your airplane weigh and how old is it. My 601 HD (EW 641 lbs) is nine years old and has 699 landings (500.3 hrs) and the main gear bungees have the outer covering frayed but are not stretching at all yet. I replaced the nose gear bungee because it was frayed when it had 304.8 hrs and 432 landings. Had to use a razor blade to cut it to get it off. I should have left it on there some longer because it had not begun to stretch at all and still had full bungee effect; just looked bad. The one on there now actually looks worse than the one I took off. I am using the 1080HD bungees supplied by ZAC. The new one on the nose gear actually let the top gear plate set slightly higher than the one I removed. I.E. don't change them before you need to. As for the problem of removing and reinstalling those dreaded bolts, now everyone knows why I took the time and effort to install nutplates on strips that will make this job easy when I have to do it. Back when I wrote an article for the Zenith Newsletter years ago describing how I did it, even Chris H. questioned why I went to the expense and effort. I'm a retired A I know airplanes require maintenance! It seems to me you are probably going to have to use one of the processes such as grease, tape and bent wrenches that most folks talk about. Those who are still building A/C with bungee gear take heed! If you keep it long enough you will have to work on it! Jim Hoak do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Engelke" > To: "Zenith list" > Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 2:44 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Main Gear Bungees (601 HDS) > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roy Engelke" > > > After over 550 landings my main gear bungees are starting to stretch. The > nose gear bungee has already been replaced. > Is there "any way" to replace the main gear bungies without removing the > lower bearing support and the dreaded seven bolts per side that are > virtually impossible to remove and reinstall? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:40 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Queer Electrons In N329F --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" Jim-- You may be aware of this but just in case-----the led indicator position will be at the bottom without any input from the servo. The only leds are the orange,green and blue wires. These deliver the centering, up and down indications. If your servo is losing power, threrfore no output, the led will indicate at the bottom. I'd check the white wires that supply power to the servo. You possibly have a short or mechanical interference between the PTT and servo switches. My best guess George May 601XL 912s >From: "Jim Fosse" >To: "Zenith List" >Subject: Zenith-List: Queer Electrons In N329F >Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 22:16:09 -0600 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" > >Listers. I have a weird problem. I have the LED indicator for the >elevator trim on my 701. Everything works perfectly until I key the >comm radio mic. When I key the mic, with intercom on or off, the LED >drops from the neutral position to the bottom of the indicator. I >have checked grounds, antenna isolation and everything else I can >think of, with no success. I am using the ICOM A200 and a Flight Tech >intercom. Any ideas out there? > >Jim Fosse > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:17 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Queer Electrons In N329F --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Jim, I have the same problem in my 601. My trim cable is routed together with my antenna cable for a couple of feet, and I am most likely getting interference. I plan to re-route my antenna cable. I'll report back if this is a fix. R/ Brandon ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:03 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Wing walk tape --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Any recommendations from flying 601's on wing walk tape / compound? Has anyone used clear? I like clear, but suspect it is impossible to keep clean. R/ Brandon Tucker ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:17 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Intercom Recommendation --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Gents, I have never posted an "info-mercial," but I have to recommend the Sigtronics sport 200. The documentation included is complete and easy to follow. They even include an adhesive drill guide. The S model has stereo inputs for $80 more. I was pretty impressed... http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/sigtronicssport200s.php R/ Brandon ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:17 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Application for Airworthiness Certificate --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" When I replaced my engine, I made the necessary changes to the 8130-6, and wrote a letter explaining what I was doing. Since I was still in my testing period and had more than 5 hours remaining, I told them that I didn't intend to extend the flight testing beyond 40 hours unless they informed me of a need to do so. I think I still had 20 hours or so to go. I don't remember what I put on the 8130-6 exactly, but you can be sure that if it's not right, they will send it back for corrections. I would suggest calling your local FSDO or MIDO if you need guidance. One thing I wish I would have done that I didn't do was to send the letter "return receipt". For along time, I kept wondering if they got it. They probably won't require a new inspection. I would recommend getting a tech counselor to check things out before flying. Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 > [Original Message] > From: Mike Sinclair > To: > Date: 2/19/2006 1:24:56 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Application for Airworthiness Certificate > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair > > Hi Guys > > Maybe some of you have been in this situation before, and if so I could use a little guidance. As a part of the latest rebuild I have changed engines from a 912UL to a 912ULS. Per the operating limitations sec. 19, and per the letter of concurence I got yesterday from our local Aviation Safety Inspector (Airworthiness) I have to fill out a revised Form 8130-6 (application for airworthiness certificate). I have a couple of questions. > > 1. Section IV of form 8130-6 (Inspection Agency Verification) says to complete only if 14 CFR part 21.183(d) applies. As best I can figure part 21.183(d) would not apply to this aircraft, but there is some doubt. ???? > > 2. Section V (FAA Representative Certification). Does this engine change require a complete new DAR or FAA inspection? > > Still have to do engine run ups, sync the carbs, set the idle, possible tweak prop pitch. And get the final paperwork out of the way, then I can get this bird back in the air. But as usual the most confusing part seems to be the paperwork. I will try to get ahold of our FAA guy tomorrow, but was hoping that I could get things a little clearer in my mind before I do. Thanks > > Mike Sinclair N701TD > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:16 PM PST US From: xl Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing walk tape --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl I used skateboard grip. Just the just right size. And it has held up very well - still looks new, a few rivet heads show but not much. I used black, at ~$4/grip from the local skateboard shop. Clear may have been a better choice - didn't think of it. On second thought, the black gives the passenger a good target - keeps her off the tender part of the wing. I say, 'step on the black and no where else', that has worked, so far. I did a quick google search and came up with: http://www.outlookskates.com/GripTape.htm Clear grip so images on top of deck can be seen. $8.99 (one sheet of 9" X 33" clear grip tape) Joe E N633Z @ BFI 300 hours 601XL, Jabiru 3300, Sensenich wood 64x48 On Sun, 19 Feb 2006, Brandon Tucker wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker > Any recommendations from flying 601's on wing walk > tape / compound? Has anyone used clear? I like > clear, but suspect it is impossible to keep clean. > R/ > Brandon Tucker