Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:15 AM - 701 top mounted fuel sender (Gordon)
2. 06:57 AM - Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming? (Jay Herron)
3. 07:17 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Prop Pitch (John M. Goodings)
4. 07:23 AM - Re: Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
5. 07:28 AM - Re: Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Crosswind - The First Step Toward the Next Flight (Johann G.)
7. 10:40 AM - Re: Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming ? Now vent (n801bh@netzero.com)
8. 10:43 AM - Re: Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming ? (n801bh@netzero.com)
9. 11:11 AM - Re: Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming ? Now vent (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 11:15 AM - Re: Re: Crosswind - The First Step Toward the Next Flight (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 06:53 PM - 801 fuel issues (Ben Haas)
12. 08:20 PM - New builder save money ()
13. 08:55 PM - Another website up (Brandon Tucker)
14. 09:13 PM - Re: Another website up (kevinbonds)
15. 09:22 PM - Another website up (Brandon Tucker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 701 top mounted fuel sender |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon" <cscsail@gmavt.net>
Paul,
If you have not checked your tanks for leaks you should --- I had leaks around
the screw heads of both senders. They were caused either because the paper
washer failed or where I attached the grounding lug. As you noted, the sender
can not be grounded if the grounding lug is isolated from the sender ( paper
washer between it and the sender housing). The screws are already grounded because
they are well bonded to the backing plate that makes contact with the inside
of the tank and hopefully the tank is grounded.
Not having much faith in the paper washers and ZAC grounding configuration,
I used soft copper washers under the heads of the screws. These sealed perfectly
and also have the benefit of grounding the sending unit to the tank. No additional
grounding wire is needed if your tank is grounded.
Gordon
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" <jay@agstore.net>
I am still working on FWF on my 801 with a Lycoming O-360. I do not have any experience
with the Lycoming, so I am looking for input on the primer system.
Do I need it? If I need it, what parts do I need? How is it plumbed in? The
engine I have has the lines installed for the system to cylinders 1, 2, and 3.
It has a fitting on cylinder #4. See pictures below.
And while we are on the fuel system, I want to know a little more about the vented fuel caps. The fuel caps I recieved are vented and the construction manual mentions: " (Note: Vent tube for the wing tank is required on the bottom of the wing if the fuels caps are not vented). Therefore I did not put vent tubes in my wings. Now after reading the list yesterday, I wonder if I made a huge mistake by omitting them? I looked at Gary Limings website and see that he made a different cap for his tanks: http://www.liming.org/ch801/fuel.html Do I need to do the same thing or will my vented caps work ok???
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14079#14079
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/primer4_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/primerlines_184.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: Prop Pitch |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca>
On my Zodiac 601HD (not XL), with GSC 68 inch 3-blade prop on a Rotax
912S, I have set blade pitch at 18.75 degrees at 75% from hub centre (i.e.
25.5 inches). This gives 5800 RPM at full power, and a climb rate on a
cool day greater than 1500 feet per minute. Cruise at 5200 RPM is 105 MPH
(because of that thick wing!). When the engine is hot at full power, it
will go slightly above 5800 RPM; this is not a problem, because one just
throttles back a hair so as not to exceed 5800 RPM. Thus, in your case, I
would start at 19 degrees. When I get around to it, I intend to change my
pitch to 19.5 degrees.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Waterloo and Toronto.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Vented caps on top of a wing is a bad idea...The low air pressure will
suck on the fuel, leading possibly to fuel starvation or( potentially
worse) vapour lock.
Lots of airplanes get away with this set up but it is not a good design.
Why Zac does not standardise on a vent tube thru the bottom of the wing
(into HIGH pressure air) is beyond me.
Pull your tanks and install the tubes, at the very least it will set
your mind at rest.
Frank
601HDS 400 hours 2* electric pumps in wing roots.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Herron
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my
Lycoming?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" <jay@agstore.net>
I am still working on FWF on my 801 with a Lycoming O-360. I do not
have any experience with the Lycoming, so I am looking for input on the
primer system. Do I need it? If I need it, what parts do I need? How
is it plumbed in? The engine I have has the lines installed for the
system to cylinders 1, 2, and 3. It has a fitting on cylinder #4. See
pictures below.
And while we are on the fuel system, I want to know a little more about
the vented fuel caps. The fuel caps I recieved are vented and the
construction manual mentions: " (Note: Vent tube for the wing tank is
required on the bottom of the wing if the fuels caps are not vented).
Therefore I did not put vent tubes in my wings. Now after reading the
list yesterday, I wonder if I made a huge mistake by omitting them? I
looked at Gary Limings website and see that he made a different cap for
his tanks: http://www.liming.org/ch801/fuel.html Do I need to do the
same thing or will my vented caps work ok???
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14079#14079
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/primer4_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/primerlines_184.jpg
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Very probably, although I would hope there is a better solution than the
awful manual plunger...For my Stratus I have a primer solenoid and take
the head pressure from the electric pumps to do my priming for me.
There is a Lycoming group on Matronics that has some incredibly
knowledgable people. I would post your question there.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Herron
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my
Lycoming?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" <jay@agstore.net>
I am still working on FWF on my 801 with a Lycoming O-360. I do not
have any experience with the Lycoming, so I am looking for input on the
primer system. Do I need it? If I need it, what parts do I need? How
is it plumbed in? The engine I have has the lines installed for the
system to cylinders 1, 2, and 3. It has a fitting on cylinder #4. See
pictures below.
And while we are on the fuel system, I want to know a little more about
the vented fuel caps. The fuel caps I recieved are vented and the
construction manual mentions: " (Note: Vent tube for the wing tank is
required on the bottom of the wing if the fuels caps are not vented).
Therefore I did not put vent tubes in my wings. Now after reading the
list yesterday, I wonder if I made a huge mistake by omitting them? I
looked at Gary Limings website and see that he made a different cap for
his tanks: http://www.liming.org/ch801/fuel.html Do I need to do the
same thing or will my vented caps work ok???
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14079#14079
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/primer4_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/primerlines_184.jpg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Crosswind - The First Step Toward the Next Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@rafpostur.is>
Hello Frank.
Thank you for the advice. If I would have known what I know today, when
I closed up the wings, I would have done things differently, a correct
venting and bigger wing tanks, no header tank. Fuel pump in each wing root.
This setup seems to work OK so I will just keep it this way for now. I
may get a different fuel tank caps later if the fuel transfere method
will cause a problem, but that is a project for later.
The header tank is only filled through the wing tanks.I do have a fuel
sensor in the header tank and when the wing tanks are empty, I have
approx 1,5 hours of endurance in the header tank. Also have the fuel
flow sensor to give me the estimated endurance based on RPM. I really
like the Stratomaster E2 EMS.
Regards,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Joeing 701
do not archive
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>This is not ideal but probably workable because the wing tanks are
>feeding the header.
>
>What is happening here is the vacuum in the tank (vented to a low
>pressure area above the wing) is preventing the fuel from flowing
>downhill.
>
>You then turn on the pump and suck on the bottom of the fuel to get it
>moving.
>
>"Vacuum" and "suck" are not good terms for a fuel system....If this was
>a high altitude plane I can guarantee you would be boiling fuel in the
>tank and potentially vapour locking a pump.
>
>Not an ideal setup but workable because 701 won't normally go that high
>and you are not feeding the engine directly from the wing tanks.
>
>If this was a direct feed I would want a better venting system.
>
>Farnk
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Johann G.
>Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:00 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Crosswind - The First Step Toward the Next
>Flight
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@rafpostur.is>
>
>Hello All.
>
>I am using one old fuel tank and one newer fuel tank in the wings. Both
>have the vented caps, but the caps are different.
>I do not have the fowrard facing tube in the caps. To prevent the
>possibility of gravity not doing its work in my wing tanks, I installed
>one facet 105 fuel pump behind the seats which feeds the header tank.
>When I turn the pump on and it has been running for a few sec. fuel
>seems to flow freely without the pump.
>So the conclusion in my setup is, you need to get the flow started and
>then it will flow on its own with gravity.
>
>Regards,
>Johann G.
>Iceland.
>Z 701
>
>
>JERICKSON03E@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
>>
>>In a message dated 2/19/2006 12:59:52 PM Central Standard Time,
>>squiggles@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>>- The ZAC fuel caps require supplemental vents. On a ground test of
>>20gph on a tank the tank sucked itself inwards. Subsequent tests of
>>the remaining 3 fuel caps in my kit revealed the same behaviors
>>
>>
>>
>>What configurations of fuel caps are being used on completed 701 & 801
>>aircraft?
>>The ZAC kit caps I have are vented, four places at the edges.
>>Cap's seen at the factory have ram air tubes attached. Several older
>>designs also have used ram tubes on the caps.
>>
>>Question is one of having at least free gravity flow while in flight,
>>so the cap's need to at least be freely vented. Which leads to, what is
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the air pressure on the wing upper surface, where the caps live? Has
>>anyone ever checked to understand what the effect is of venting the
>>caps close to the wing upper surface?
>>
>>Searching for a good solution for fuel flow in flight.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming |
? Now vent
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
Pull your tanks and install the tubes, at the very least it will set
your mind at rest.
Frank
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
That's alot easier said then done.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Pull your tanks and install the tubes, at the very least it will set
your mind at rest.
Frank
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
That's alot easier said then done.
BenHaas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming |
?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
Very probably, although I would hope there is a better solution than the
awful manual plunger...For my Stratus I have a primer solenoid and take
the head pressure from the electric pumps to do my priming for me.
There is a Lycoming group on Matronics that has some incredibly
knowledgable people. I would post your question there.
Frank
Do not archive
\//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This is a great idea. You should be able to hook this setup right into your existing
primer lines, and as a bonus it keeps two primer lines with fuel in them
out of the cockpit...
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Very probably, although I would hope there is a better solution than the
awful manual plunger...For my Stratus I have a primer solenoid and take
the head pressure from the electric pumps to do my priming for me.
There is a Lycoming group on Matronics that has some incredibly
knowledgable people. I would post your question there.
Frank
Do not archive
\//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This is a great idea. You should be able to hook this setup right into your existing
primer lines, and as a bonus it keeps two primer lines with fuel in them
out of the cockpit...
BenHaas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my Lycoming |
? Now vent
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
On the 601 at least its simply a matter of drilling out a bunch of
rivets to get the wing tanks out. I have had to do it to fix a leak once
and while it sounded bad it realy was not as much work as I expected
once I got into it.
The trick is to pilot drill the rivet heads (#40 drill for small rivets
and #30 for large) this will center the final su=ize drill bit perfectly
and you can take the heads off without marking the skin underneath by
using a battery drill on slow!
Tank mods "should" be fairly simple, I would use proseal to glue a
flange on the bottom of the tank rather than welding but that's just my
preference.
Good luck
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
n801bh@netzero.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel system: Do I need a primer system on my
Lycoming ? Now vent
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
--> <n801bh@netzero.com>
Pull your tanks and install the tubes, at the very least it will set
your mind at rest.
Frank
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
That's alot easier said then done.
That's alot easier said then done.
BenHaas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Crosswind - The First Step Toward the Next Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Your welcome.
I too have a JPI fuelscan (or is that floscan) and can tell you it is
prbably the most useful cross country instrument I have. Deadly
accurate.
Of course this is for a wing tank plane only. If you have a header tank
an even more reliable and accurate fuel burn meter is the simple sight
tube.
Cheers
Frank
Do not aarchive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Johann G.
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Crosswind - The First Step Toward the Next
Flight
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann G." <johann@rafpostur.is>
Hello Frank.
Thank you for the advice. If I would have known what I know today, when
I closed up the wings, I would have done things differently, a correct
venting and bigger wing tanks, no header tank. Fuel pump in each wing
root.
This setup seems to work OK so I will just keep it this way for now. I
may get a different fuel tank caps later if the fuel transfere method
will cause a problem, but that is a project for later.
The header tank is only filled through the wing tanks.I do have a fuel
sensor in the header tank and when the wing tanks are empty, I have
approx 1,5 hours of endurance in the header tank. Also have the fuel
flow sensor to give me the estimated endurance based on RPM. I really
like the Stratomaster E2 EMS.
Regards,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Joeing 701
do not archive
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ben Haas" <n801bh@netzero.com>
Does this look familier to the recent downing of Dave Zilts's 801.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=3D20011116X02257&ntsbno=3DFTW02LA035&akey=3D1
Message 12
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| Subject: | New builder save money |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <xanthx@netscape.com>
Having decided to go with an S-LSA I now have a nice set of Zenith 601XL plans
for sale. I'll throw in a like new HomebuiltHELP.com Metalworking101 w/Rudder
Workshop DVD and the Zenith Aircraft Information Kit for $325.00.
Netscape. just the net you need
Message 13
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| Subject: | Another website up |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Gents,
I finally got a website up and running if anyone
is interested. Just click on the Zodiac button.
R/
Brandon Tucker
Oceanside, Ca.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Another website up |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Brandon
Where is this button you speak of?
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Tucker
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:51 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Another website up
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Gents,
I finally got a website up and running if anyone
is interested. Just click on the Zodiac button.
R/
Brandon Tucker
Oceanside, Ca.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Another website up |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
I guess I'll include the link:
http://home.sandiego.edu/~btucker-03/
R/
Brandon
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