---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/23/06: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:18 AM - 701 top mount fuel sender (Gordon) 2. 07:00 AM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701 (Jim Hoak) 3. 07:15 AM - Re: 701 top mount fuel sender (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 4. 07:24 AM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701 (Larry) 5. 07:26 AM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 6. 07:47 AM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 7. 08:51 AM - Do I need a primer system on my (Keystone Engineering LLC) 8. 10:43 AM - Re: 701 top mount fuel sender (ROBERT SCEPPA) 9. 12:33 PM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701 (Bryan Martin) 10. 04:20 PM - Aux fuel pump (neitzel) 11. 04:37 PM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701 (Tim & Diane Shankland) 12. 05:23 PM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701 (Craig Payne) 13. 06:12 PM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701 (William Jeffries) 14. 08:55 PM - Re: Another website up (Gary Gower) 15. 10:01 PM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701. (Gary Gower) 16. 10:27 PM - Re: Aux fuel pump (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:53 AM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 top mount fuel sender --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon" Tommy, I got the washers from a local diesel engine repair business. The washers are commonly used on fuel connections like banjo fittings, but I'm sure there are other sources. Gordon Do you know where I could order some of the copper washers you mentioned? Thanks, Tommy Walker ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:28 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" George, I have 601Hd fuel system plumbed as you described. I use auto gas exclusively. It has worked fine for 9 years (500.3 hours). I use the electric pump for T/O and landing (in case of a go around) in case the mechanical pump dies at the wrong time. The only question I have is the pressure you mentioned. My engine driven (Rotax 912UL) pump and the electric pump both put out around 5 Psi NOT 25 to 45 psi as you mentioned. My elec. pump is a Facet and I don't use a "check valve" in the system. I just checked my purchase records but the receipt doesn't mention the part number and the airplane is miles from home. I plumbed the electric pump in "parrallel" with the engine pump and it works fine. Good luck. Jim Hoak 601HD 500.3 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: george.mueller@aurora.org > > > I am thinking about the fuel system in my 701 and am considering putting > in > a facet fuel pump as a booster pump The pump I am considering is an > FP40105 which doesn't have a check valve and puts out 25 to 45 PSI (my > understanding is the Rotax 912 can handle a max pressure of 58psi) This > pump would be used to avoid vapor lock on take off and as an aux pump if > the mechanical pump on the Rotax fails I would install the pump after the > gascolator and after an in line fuel filter, basically next to the > gascolator Are there any problems that anyone can see with such an > installation? I am concerned with the greater likelihood of vapor lock > with auto gas > > > George > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:57 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 top mount fuel sender From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Check out you local autoparts store, or even some good hardware stores have the trays of little stuff. Never ceases to amaze me what I find in these places. My local Knects has copper washers. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 4:12 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 top mount fuel sender --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon" Tommy, I got the washers from a local diesel engine repair business. The washers are commonly used on fuel connections like banjo fittings, but I'm sure there are other sources. Gordon Do you know where I could order some of the copper washers you mentioned? Thanks, Tommy Walker ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:39 AM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" If you have a gravity feed system, a carbed engine, and no mechanical pump then you should have an aux electric pump, no more than 6 psi to use for T/O and other climbs. It is entirely possible that your carb bowl which is normally pretty small can get higher that your tank. Thus no more gas unless you pump it. I'm talking high wing. I intend to run a primary pump all the time with a second backup aux pump. It's just something else not to have to remember to turn on and off. And in the remote event the primary pump fails, the pressure gauge will fall off but it will still gravity feed thru the pump. I can switch on the aux pump if needed. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Hoak" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:52 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" > > George, > > I have 601Hd fuel system plumbed as you described. I use auto gas > exclusively. It has worked fine for 9 years (500.3 hours). I use the > electric pump for T/O and landing (in case of a go around) in case the > mechanical pump dies at the wrong time. The only question I have is the > pressure you mentioned. My engine driven (Rotax 912UL) pump and the > electric pump both put out around 5 Psi NOT 25 to 45 psi as you mentioned. > My elec. pump is a Facet and I don't use a "check valve" in the system. I > just checked my purchase records but the receipt doesn't mention the part > number and the airplane is miles from home. I plumbed the electric pump in > "parrallel" with the engine pump and it works fine. > > Good luck. > > Jim Hoak 601HD 500.3 hrs. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:56 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: george.mueller@aurora.org >> >> >> >> I am thinking about the fuel system in my 701 and am considering putting >> in >> a facet fuel pump as a booster pump The pump I am considering is an >> FP40105 which doesn't have a check valve and puts out 25 to 45 PSI (my >> understanding is the Rotax 912 can handle a max pressure of 58psi) This >> pump would be used to avoid vapor lock on take off and as an aux pump if >> the mechanical pump on the Rotax fails I would install the pump after >> the >> gascolator and after an in line fuel filter, basically next to the >> gascolator Are there any problems that anyone can see with such an >> installation? I am concerned with the greater likelihood of vapor lock >> with auto gas >> >> >> >> >> George >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:36 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I'm sure it does but what are the failure modes of this set up? Is there something that could happen to the mechanical pump that prevents the Facet from being a reliable backup?.... If the pump diaphram were to rupture would it allow the fuel to backflow (either back into the tank or inside the cowl)? I don't know the answer to these questions but you can't simply write off the issue as "works fine" until you understand how each component might fail and affect the system performance. Taking my scenario above for instance, a failed mechanical pump would not only allow the engine to quit, it could also be a very big fire hazard! For us to recommend this setup we need to know a little more I think Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hoak Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 6:52 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" George, I have 601Hd fuel system plumbed as you described. I use auto gas exclusively. It has worked fine for 9 years (500.3 hours). I use the electric pump for T/O and landing (in case of a go around) in case the mechanical pump dies at the wrong time. The only question I have is the pressure you mentioned. My engine driven (Rotax 912UL) pump and the electric pump both put out around 5 Psi NOT 25 to 45 psi as you mentioned. My elec. pump is a Facet and I don't use a "check valve" in the system. I just checked my purchase records but the receipt doesn't mention the part number and the airplane is miles from home. I plumbed the electric pump in "parrallel" with the engine pump and it works fine. Good luck. Jim Hoak 601HD 500.3 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: george.mueller@aurora.org > > > I am thinking about the fuel system in my 701 and am considering putting > in > a facet fuel pump as a booster pump The pump I am considering is an > FP40105 which doesn't have a check valve and puts out 25 to 45 PSI (my > understanding is the Rotax 912 can handle a max pressure of 58psi) This > pump would be used to avoid vapor lock on take off and as an aux pump if > the mechanical pump on the Rotax fails I would install the pump after the > gascolator and after an in line fuel filter, basically next to the > gascolator Are there any problems that anyone can see with such an > installation? I am concerned with the greater likelihood of vapor lock > with auto gas > > > George > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:24 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" That's a wild looking cowling on that 701...Looks cool! Not so sure I like the idea of your single pump...Do you know for sure that you will get full fuel flow through a dead Facet fuel pump? Why not simply run two of them in parallel. You can leave them running all the time or turn both of them on just for TO and landing. A pair of 40105 Facets in parallel will not jack the fuel pressure any higher than a single pump and I think there will be enough flow from each pump to overcome the backflow thru the dead pump...If not you could always put two check valves in or buy the pump with check valves...(model number escapes me at present) Nice plane! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:20 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" If you have a gravity feed system, a carbed engine, and no mechanical pump then you should have an aux electric pump, no more than 6 psi to use for T/O and other climbs. It is entirely possible that your carb bowl which is normally pretty small can get higher that your tank. Thus no more gas unless you pump it. I'm talking high wing. I intend to run a primary pump all the time with a second backup aux pump. It's just something else not to have to remember to turn on and off. And in the remote event the primary pump fails, the pressure gauge will fall off but it will still gravity feed thru the pump. I can switch on the aux pump if needed. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Hoak" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:52 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" > > George, > > I have 601Hd fuel system plumbed as you described. I use auto gas > exclusively. It has worked fine for 9 years (500.3 hours). I use the > electric pump for T/O and landing (in case of a go around) in case the > mechanical pump dies at the wrong time. The only question I have is the > pressure you mentioned. My engine driven (Rotax 912UL) pump and the > electric pump both put out around 5 Psi NOT 25 to 45 psi as you mentioned. > My elec. pump is a Facet and I don't use a "check valve" in the system. I > just checked my purchase records but the receipt doesn't mention the part > number and the airplane is miles from home. I plumbed the electric pump in > "parrallel" with the engine pump and it works fine. > > Good luck. > > Jim Hoak 601HD 500.3 hrs. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:56 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: george.mueller@aurora.org >> >> >> >> I am thinking about the fuel system in my 701 and am considering putting >> in >> a facet fuel pump as a booster pump The pump I am considering is an >> FP40105 which doesn't have a check valve and puts out 25 to 45 PSI (my >> understanding is the Rotax 912 can handle a max pressure of 58psi) This >> pump would be used to avoid vapor lock on take off and as an aux pump if >> the mechanical pump on the Rotax fails I would install the pump after >> the >> gascolator and after an in line fuel filter, basically next to the >> gascolator Are there any problems that anyone can see with such an >> installation? I am concerned with the greater likelihood of vapor lock >> with auto gas >> >> >> >> >> George >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:34 AM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: Do I need a primer system on my --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC Jay My advice is go install a system that is suggested by ZAC or has been use on a certified airplane. The primer system I installed on my O-360 in my 801 was modeled after the one in a Cherokee Turbo-Arrow. I came off the pressure side of the fuel block to a solenoid (from Spruce) to all 4 cylinders. I just turn on the fuel pump then push to open the solenoid for 3-7 seconds depending on the temp. It normally starts right off. I have 800+ hrs in a PA-22 that used vented fuel tank caps. They work just fine. I had more water in the gas from fueling during a rain than from the caps. I have 230 hrs on my vented caps in my 801 and have not had an issue with the caps. I'm really excited about my new bigger tail with VGs on 3" centers. I can shoot stabilized approaches at 40 MPH indicated which is 45 MPH GPS. Talk about short landings! Bill Wilcox N801BW Valdez, Alaska 230 hrs Just finished flying off my 5 hrs on the new tail. Starting to install full lotus floats. I am still working on FWF on my 801 with a Lycoming O-360. I do not have any experience with the Lycoming, so I am looking for input on the primer system. Do I need it? If I need it, what parts do I need? How is it plumbed in? The engine I have has the lines installed for the system to cylinders 1, 2, and 3. It has a fitting on cylinder #4. See pictures below. And while we are on the fuel system, I want to know a little more about the vented fuel caps. The fuel caps I recieved are vented and the construction manual mentions: " (Note: Vent tube for the wing tank is required on the bottom of the wing if the fuels caps are not vented). Therefore I did not put vent tubes in my wings. Now after reading the list yesterday, I wonder if I made a huge mistake by omitting them? I looked at Gary Limings website and see that he made a different cap for his tanks: http://www.liming.org/ch801/fuel.html Do I need to do the same thing or will my vented caps work ok??? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:35 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 top mount fuel sender --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA > I just ordered a JC Whitney fuel gauge and sender > unit for our Glastar project. I will probably use > two of the units in my 701..Let you all know how > it works out. Bob S --- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank > George (Corvallis)" > > Check out you local autoparts store, or even some > good hardware stores > have the trays of little stuff. Never ceases to > amaze me what I find in > these places. > > My local Knects has copper washers. > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Gordon > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 4:12 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: 701 top mount fuel sender > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon" > > > Tommy, > I got the washers from a local diesel engine repair > business. The > washers are commonly used on fuel connections like > banjo fittings, but > I'm sure there are other sources. > Gordon > > Do you know where I could order some of the copper > washers you > mentioned? > > Thanks, > Tommy Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I have two Facet FP40105 pumps in parallel in my Zodiac. I only run one at a time and have no check valves. I have never had a problem with back flow through the inoperative pump. These pumps are designed to allow some back flow in order to allow the line downstream of the pump to depressurize after shut down. This back flow is just a trickle which makes check valves unnecessary. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. on 2/23/06 10:43 AM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) at frank.hinde@hp.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > That's a wild looking cowling on that 701...Looks cool! > > Not so sure I like the idea of your single pump...Do you know for sure > that you will get full fuel flow through a dead Facet fuel pump? > > Why not simply run two of them in parallel. You can leave them running > all the time or turn both of them on just for TO and landing. A pair of > 40105 Facets in parallel will not jack the fuel pressure any higher than > a single pump and I think there will be enough flow from each pump to > overcome the backflow thru the dead pump...If not you could always put > two check valves in or buy the pump with check valves...(model number > escapes me at present) > > Nice plane! > > Frank > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:59 PM PST US From: "neitzel" Subject: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump --> Zenith-List message posted by: "neitzel" Greetings I installed a low pressure facet 40105 in series with the vacuum operated diaphragm pump on a Rotax 582. The boost pump was operated on take off and landing only. This set up has just over 100 hours on it and has not interfered with fuel flow when not in operation. I plan to use the same set up on my 701 with Jabiru power plant. Someone did bring up a valid point about first understanding the operation of the mechanical pump on the engine. I am slated for engine delivery this month so will inspect the pump and, if necessary, even disassemble it to determine fuel flow and possible ramifications in the event of a failure. Dick Neitzel Sayner, WI N962WB reserved ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:27 PM PST US From: Tim & Diane Shankland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland I don't think anyone has adequately explained the difference between the mechanical engine pumps and the electric. The electric pumps typically have an oscillating plunger that pumps the fuel though a pair of check valves giving a rated pressure. If it is for example 5 psi then two electric pumps in series is 10 psi. The engine pump operates differently when the lever that is driven by an engine cam is moved it pulls the diaphragm such as to enlarge the pumping chamber. This action is against a spring. This is the intake stroke for the pump that pulls fuel into the pump chamber. The fuel is forced out of the chamber by the spring pressure and not the return of the pump lever which is connected by a mechanism that does not allow it to pump on the return stroke. In that way the spring determines the pressure of the pump not the engine speed. In like manner if the fuel is being fed to the pump under pressure the mechanical pump is not additive. The is the output pressure will be which ever is higher the electric pump or the mechanical pump. This is why for years certified low wing aircraft have had a mechanical engine pump and a boost pump with no over pressure problem. For my installation since I only have electric pumps I connected them in serial with a pressure regulator to keep the pressure at 5 psi. Tim Shankland Jim Hoak wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" > >George, > >I have 601Hd fuel system plumbed as you described. I use auto gas >exclusively. It has worked fine for 9 years (500.3 hours). I use the >electric pump for T/O and landing (in case of a go around) in case the >mechanical pump dies at the wrong time. The only question I have is the >pressure you mentioned. My engine driven (Rotax 912UL) pump and the >electric pump both put out around 5 Psi NOT 25 to 45 psi as you mentioned. >My elec. pump is a Facet and I don't use a "check valve" in the system. I >just checked my purchase records but the receipt doesn't mention the part >number and the airplane is miles from home. I plumbed the electric pump in >"parrallel" with the engine pump and it works fine. > >Good luck. > >Jim Hoak 601HD 500.3 hrs. >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:56 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 > > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: george.mueller@aurora.org >> >> >> >>I am thinking about the fuel system in my 701 and am considering putting >>in >>a facet fuel pump as a booster pump The pump I am considering is an >>FP40105 which doesn't have a check valve and puts out 25 to 45 PSI (my >>understanding is the Rotax 912 can handle a max pressure of 58psi) This >>pump would be used to avoid vapor lock on take off and as an aux pump if >>the mechanical pump on the Rotax fails I would install the pump after the >>gascolator and after an in line fuel filter, basically next to the >>gascolator Are there any problems that anyone can see with such an >>installation? I am concerned with the greater likelihood of vapor lock >>with auto gas >> >> >> >> >>George >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:00 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Another oft-forgotten point is that there are many models of the Facet pumps. Some have check-valves, some have anti-siphon valves, some have neither, some have both. There is a fairly wide variation in the range of lift, GPH and min/max PSI. In all there are 36 different configurations in the 12 volt models. The link below is to a PDF (Adobe Acrobat) document on Facet's web site. http://www.facet-purolator.com/mcl/media/technology/hd_pdfs/Cubed_Solid.pdf Or as a tiny URL: http://tinyurl.com/nakhq -- Craig ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:24 PM PST US From: William Jeffries Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Jeffries Frank, If the diaphram were to develop a hole it may exit out the weep hole however it would probably drain into the crankcase as it might still be pumping. Having a check valve seperating the two pumps, yet a good idea, but not required to have the system function. After all there is a check valve built into the mechanical pump to begin with or it couldn't pump. Just my two cents worth. Bill Jeffries --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:17 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another website up --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Yes, I think will be a good idea... :-) :-) Thanks for the link, And congratulations, for the page. Saludos Gary Gower. Brandon Tucker wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker I guess I'll include the link: http://home.sandiego.edu/~btucker-03/ R/ Brandon --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:33 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Jim and all... We have a 701 kit we built,.. It has the fuel system as the plans, the stock vented gas caps and the stock aluminum gascolator. The only thing we added were a shut off valve in each hose, from each tank, inside the lugage area where the flaperon conectors covers are, easy reach by the pilot if need, they are always opened. What we note in this first 35 hours of flying the 701, is that the right wing uses the gasoline first, the left tank is about 3/4 full when the right wing is near empty (1/4). in flights of more than 2 or 3 an hours (depending of the real flight time, off course). We tested in the hangar the flow of each tank independent and also both tanks at the same time, closing one valve and disconecting the hose just pass the main shut off valve... Dont have the numbers now, but the diference was minimal. we havent flew the plane that much time to see what happens when (if) the right tank gets empty, I once shut the right tank valve for about 40 minutes over the dry lake (not chicken, just thinking safe :-) to use the left tank first and then both tanks, when I landed both tanks where almost level. (used the calibrated level tube).. Now, given this, a friend that is building another (701) kit here, got a 1 galon header tank from Kitfox, It is installed the same way the KF instructuins, in the back side of his seat , is plumbed betwen the tanks and the ZAC gascolator, He also uses the shut off valves from the main tanks as we did. This particular header tank is vented with a T, and at the same level of the main tanks, so no overflow is spected... I think this will help keep both tanks level. This 701 will ready to fly is a few weeks, is almost finished. So not field tested yet. As is impossible now to get the Kitfox header tank (bankrupt), we are planning to make one similar made of aluminum for our plane... One extra from this header tank is that has an internal level switch that turns on a LED in the instrument panel if the level of the HT is about 90% low... If this happens the pilots has about 1 gallon left (10 minutes) to look for a good place to glide... I dont know where we can look for a similar sender switch for our tank, because will be a good safety gadget. If we can find the switch we will make our tank 2 galons to have 20 minutes to land... if needed. hope never needed. What do you think? Saludos Gary Gower. Jim Hoak wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" George, I have 601Hd fuel system plumbed as you described. I use auto gas exclusively. It has worked fine for 9 years (500.3 hours). I use the electric pump for T/O and landing (in case of a go around) in case the mechanical pump dies at the wrong time. The only question I have is the pressure you mentioned. My engine driven (Rotax 912UL) pump and the electric pump both put out around 5 Psi NOT 25 to 45 psi as you mentioned. My elec. pump is a Facet and I don't use a "check valve" in the system. I just checked my purchase records but the receipt doesn't mention the part number and the airplane is miles from home. I plumbed the electric pump in "parrallel" with the engine pump and it works fine. Good luck. Jim Hoak 601HD 500.3 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: george.mueller@aurora.org > > > I am thinking about the fuel system in my 701 and am considering putting > in > a facet fuel pump as a booster pump The pump I am considering is an > FP40105 which doesn't have a check valve and puts out 25 to 45 PSI (my > understanding is the Rotax 912 can handle a max pressure of 58psi) This > pump would be used to avoid vapor lock on take off and as an aux pump if > the mechanical pump on the Rotax fails I would install the pump after the > gascolator and after an in line fuel filter, basically next to the > gascolator Are there any problems that anyone can see with such an > installation? I am concerned with the greater likelihood of vapor lock > with auto gas > > George --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:05 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower I dont know the Jabiru gasoline pump (yet) but the 912 Is a sealed pump... similar to VW and Audi, no way to open it... About a not probable failure (broken) of the mechanical pump diaphgram... Could the gasoline be pumped inside the oil carter by the electric pump? In this case the engine will blow because of lack of oil?... ("washed" out by gasoline in a few minutes?) Just Murphy thinking... Hope not possible. Saludos Gary Gower. neitzel wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "neitzel" Greetings I installed a low pressure facet 40105 in series with the vacuum operated diaphragm pump on a Rotax 582. The boost pump was operated on take off and landing only. This set up has just over 100 hours on it and has not interfered with fuel flow when not in operation. I plan to use the same set up on my 701 with Jabiru power plant. Someone did bring up a valid point about first understanding the operation of the mechanical pump on the engine. I am slated for engine delivery this month so will inspect the pump and, if necessary, even disassemble it to determine fuel flow and possible ramifications in the event of a failure. Dick Neitzel Sayner, WI N962WB reserved --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.