---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/26/06: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:14 AM - rudder spar question (Dave and Jan Clay) 2. 02:36 AM - Re: rudder spar question (Paul Mulwitz) 3. 06:01 AM - Re: O-200 engine bolts hardware (cgalley) 4. 06:54 AM - Re: O-200 engine bolts hardware (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 5. 07:27 AM - Re: O-200 engine bolts hardware (ron dewees) 6. 09:22 AM - Re: rudder spar question (kevinbonds) 7. 10:14 AM - N701TD Flies Again! (Mike Sinclair) 8. 11:05 AM - Re: Aux fuel pump in 701. (Leo Gates) 9. 12:33 PM - Re: N701TD Flies Again! (n801bh@netzero.com) 10. 03:15 PM - Re: Ailerons 601XL (lgingell) 11. 03:58 PM - Re: N701TD Flies Again! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 12. 04:20 PM - Re: Re: Ailerons 601XL (Clyde Barcus) 13. 04:39 PM - Re: N701TD Flies Again! (N5SL) 14. 08:34 PM - Re: 701 fuel system (Dave and Pam Fisher) 15. 10:48 PM - Re: Questions About Bending Brake (Tebenkof@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:37 AM PST US From: "Dave and Jan Clay" Subject: Zenith-List: rudder spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" I finished my rudder last month but have recently been worried about a potential problem. On one side of the spar starting about 200mm from the top I drilled 4 or 5 holes way too close to the flange edge. My fix was to make a short .040 spar doubler for this area and drill new holes in the spar and doubler at the appropriate edge distance between the old holes. Should this be Ok or will my rudder fly apart in midair! I'm a plans builder and have also finished my elevator and am well underway on my horizontal stab. Thanks, Dave ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:24 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rudder spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I did a similar thing on my wing spar. After several sets of pictures sent to the engineer at ZAC I was told the spar cap was damaged beyond repair and needed to be replaced. Perhaps you should ask ZAC about the ruder spar? Paul XL wings At 01:06 AM 2/26/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" > >I finished my rudder last month but have recently been worried about a >potential problem. On one side of the spar starting about 200mm from the top >I drilled 4 or 5 holes way too close to the flange edge. My fix was to make >a short .040 spar doubler for this area and drill new holes in the spar and >doubler at the appropriate edge distance between the old holes. Should this >be Ok or will my rudder fly apart in midair! I'm a plans builder and have >also finished my elevator and am well underway on my horizontal stab. > >Thanks, >Dave > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:12 AM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: O-200 engine bolts hardware --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" You need to buy a Service Parts manual. 4 - AN 884-8-6 Hose 1/2" ID x l-1/2" long 4 - 530627 Spacer 8 - 530626 Seat 8 - rubber bushings 8 - Washer caps (cup washers) I am surprised that your FBO doesn't has a list. Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Briggerman" Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 8:58 PM Subject: Zenith-List: O-200 engine bolts hardware > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brian Briggerman" > > I am putting an O-200 in my 601-XL and am having a problem finding the > hardware to attach the engine to the engine mount. I have the rubber > bushings, bolts, nuts and cotter pins shown on the lower center diagram on > the drawing 6-CE-1. I can't identify the cup washers, spacer, hose and > seat. I have been to my local FBO to try to get a setup for a Cessna 150. > They could not identify the parts I need. I won't get the engine till > later this week and don't know if there is a way to install it without > those parts or not. If anyone know please let me know. > > Brian Briggerman > Fountain Hills, AZ > 601XL builder > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:37 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: O-200 engine bolts hardware --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Brian, seems like I read somewhere that AMD in Eastman,Ga. was installing the 200 in their ready made XLs. Maybe you could contact them on what they use and where to get whatever. AMD is somehow part of ZAC (Son, cousin, ? ) but they have been real nice to me. Best of luck, Bill ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:48 AM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: O-200 engine bolts hardware --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Bill, How is it going? Posted to the 601_HD-HDS group a report on Pete's cowl installation. Got my CHT's down to 247 now and oil temps are better but not as low as I would like. Probably need to do more work funneling air into the radiator. I also found I have a couple of low compression numbers on the rear cylinders. Probably because of earlier hot temperatures. I will pull the cylinders before too long and lap them. Hopefully will get everything up to snuff soon. It's flying great tho. Hope the weather gets decent before long. One good day a week is ok, but a weekend now and again would be nice, too. Take care. Ron JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > >Brian, seems like I read somewhere that AMD in Eastman,Ga. was installing the >200 in their ready made XLs. Maybe you could contact them on what they use >and where to get whatever. AMD is somehow part of ZAC (Son, cousin, ? ) but they >have been real nice to me. Best of luck, Bill > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:15 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: rudder spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" If you don't already have one, get a copy of AC43.13 and read it. You may find an appropriate fix there. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:31 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rudder spar question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I did a similar thing on my wing spar. After several sets of pictures sent to the engineer at ZAC I was told the spar cap was damaged beyond repair and needed to be replaced. Perhaps you should ask ZAC about the ruder spar? Paul XL wings At 01:06 AM 2/26/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" > >I finished my rudder last month but have recently been worried about a >potential problem. On one side of the spar starting about 200mm from the top >I drilled 4 or 5 holes way too close to the flange edge. My fix was to make >a short .040 spar doubler for this area and drill new holes in the spar and >doubler at the appropriate edge distance between the old holes. Should this >be Ok or will my rudder fly apart in midair! I'm a plans builder and have >also finished my elevator and am well underway on my horizontal stab. > >Thanks, >Dave > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:43 AM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Zenith-List: N701TD Flies Again! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Just to let those of you that have somewhat followed the trials and tribulations on N701TD over the last year and a half, I put in the first hour of airtime this morning and the difference in performance from the 80 hp. to 100 hp. is amazing. I took off on a short 600' east west with no wind and with the old engine the plane would be about tree top height going thru the gap. This time I was easily 50-75 feet above the tree tops. And I don't believe I was anywhere near the best climb, since I was being a little cautious on first takeoff. On climb out I was showing 1300 fpm at about 70 and was at pattern altitude within about a half mile. Temps on the engine (oil and CHT) stayed right at 180 degrees throughout the flight. OAT was probably 30-35 when I took off. Level cruise at 4200 rpm was giving me 85 mph indicated. Probably pretty accurate as checked and averaged against the GPS going both directions. Made 3 landings & takeoffs at a friends grass strip, but when I called after I got back home, they never heard me. And he said they were at the dining table reading the paper. Guess I should have flown past the window. Still pretty quiet. Takeoffs couldn't have been much more than 100' ground roll (if that). Pulled the top cowl after I got back home and checked again for leaks (none), checked torque on the prop (none loose), tightened one bolt on the friction block 1/4 turn (throttle wanted to creep slightly), and topped off the header tank. Only used between 3-4 gallons for the hour. All in all I am very pleased with the performance and the new engine. Should have went with 100 hp the first time around, but then I might not have appreciated the difference. I think I'm going to be ready to commit some serious aviation this year. Still have to determine Vx & Vy (they have definitely changed), and finish the last 4 hours of testing after putting the plane back into Phase I. But suspect if the weather is good I may make it down to Ponca City, Oklahoma for the monthly fly-in breakfast next weekend. YeeHaaaa! Mike Sinclair ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:37 AM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel pump in 701. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates All, I ordered my HDS LE tanks right after ZAC offered them (5-6) years ago. I asked them to weld in a 1/4" overflow/vent line in each tank terminating about 1/8" from the top and just outboard of the fuel cap. They did so at no charge. Leo Gates N601Z nyterminat@aol.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: nyterminat@aol.com > >Tim > >I suppose that is possible. We were not offered any way of venting the tanks on the 701 other thann the fuel caps. > >Bob Spudis >N701ZX do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:25 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N701TD Flies Again! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" Welcome back in the air again............... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com Welcome back in the air again............... do not archive BenHaas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Ailerons 601XL From: "lgingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" Clyde (or anyone else that went from hingeless to piano hinges), You said "I converted mine from hingeless to hinge type ..." Can you give us any more info on the feel of things? I've thought about this, since it might make the control harmony between pitch and roll a little better - Have you noticed this? I also heard that it allows for quicker aileron input in rough air. I guess this could be good and bad. Noticed any change between hinged and hingeless in this condition? I think the ailerons are a little heavy with the hingeless design, but I've never flow hinged ones in a Zodiac, so it may be nothing to do with this. I'd certainly like to hear opinions though, since mine's not painted yet. Cheers, ..lance http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15195#15195 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:09 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N701TD Flies Again! --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Mike, wev're all been there and know how thrilled you are. We've all with you, Bill ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:42 PM PST US From: "Clyde Barcus" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Ailerons 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" Lance: I don't know personally because my plane isn't finished yet, however, Gus converted William Wynne's plane and he told me it was noticeable at low speed and at cruise he couldn't tell the difference. My reason for changing was personal preference and nothing to do with concern over failure with the hingeless aileron. Also, I believe that when it is time for me to quit flying and sell my plane the hinge type aileron will appeal to a lot more potential buyers. Regards: Clyde Barcus 601 XL Corvair Powered ----- Original Message ----- From: "lgingell" Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Ailerons 601XL > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" > > Clyde (or anyone else that went from hingeless to piano hinges), > > You said "I converted mine from hingeless to hinge type ..." Can you give > us any more info on the feel of things? > > > Cheers, > ..lance > http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15195#15195 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:57 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N701TD Flies Again! --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Congratulations Mike! You have an amazing ability to get things done. For those who have not seen Mike's beautiful airplane - here's what it looked like a while back: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/MikeSinclair/MikeSinclairRedo.jpg If I remember correctly we are now at iteration number 3. It gets better every time I'm sure. Good work Mike. Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ --- Mike Sinclair wrote: > Just to let those of you that have somewhat followed > the trials and > tribulations on N701TD over the last year and a > half, I put in the first ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:13 PM PST US From: Dave and Pam Fisher Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 fuel system --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dave and Pam Fisher At 12:58 AM 2/26/2006, you wrote: >Will the engine be sucking air from one tank before the other tank is empty? >The bottom of the gas tank on the 701 is about three and a half feet above >the floor of the cabin. You may empty one tank before the other but both >tanks will be empty before you start sucking air. There may be 8 inches more >fuel on one side than the other when you start sucking air but all of that >fuel will be in the fuel line. How much fuel does 8 inches of fuel line >hold? This is why most high wing Cessnas can operate with the fuel selector >in the both position with no danger of draining one tank before the other. Hi list, Thanks for a great analysis, Bryan. The only thing I would add is that a gravity fed,Cessna style, fuel system should work fine if we fly our planes like Cessnas. If we expect to do high speed passes followed by zoom climbs, or takeoffs where we stand the plane on its tail, then it might be wise to have fuel in both tanks and one or two boost pumps. I'm now working on the fuel system for my 701 with 80 HP Continental, gravity fed, no electric, wing tanks only. I'm using 3/8 in. lines plumbed straight out of the tanks toward the cabin, through the trim channel above the doors, turn 90 degrees forward and down 30 degrees through a hand hold /corner brace made of one inch lawn chair tubing then curve down to a tee on the top center of the glare shield over the instrument panel. From the tee it will go down 30 degrees and forward through a ball type on-off valve and on down and a bit to the left to a fitting that goes through the bottom of the firewall to the gascolater and then level or up a bit to the carb. My tanks will each be vented to a tee just inside the lower wing skin. one leg of each tee will continue through the lower wing skin to an elbow turned 90 degrees forward into the wind. the other leg points toward the other wing and is connected to a cross vent tube along the inside top of the windshield so the vent pressure between the tanks can equalize. I'll try to avoid anything greater than a 30 degree nose high attitude, and I'll test the fuel flow on the ground at all expected flight conditions. My air cooled engine needs air speed to cool so I think it's a good idea to keep the climb angles down in any case. I talked to a guy with an 0200 powered 701 who had a somewhat similar fuel setup. He also had a boost pump but said it wasn't needed. I've not yet cleared this with Chris. I'd sure like to hear from anyone who has experience with a similar setup. Comments anyone?? Thanks, Dave, 701 with A80-8 Continental ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:38 PM PST US From: Tebenkof@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Questions About Bending Brake --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com William, FWIW I have used my wood cutting band saw with 18 tpi blade for cutting most thicknesses of aluminum sheet and extrusion. The cuts definitely needs smoothing with a file, and for long cuts it is hard to avoid some wandering. Still, in the absence of a good shear I have often found it to be most convenient. It does not distort the material at all. Jim Greenough