Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:38 AM - lycoming 235 ()
2. 03:26 AM - Re: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts (David Johnson)
3. 04:25 AM - Re: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts (Richard McLachlan)
4. 04:37 AM - Re: Which Swaging Tool? (Trainnut01@aol.com)
5. 05:52 AM - Re: Which Swaging Tool? (cgalley)
6. 05:52 AM - Re: lycoming 235 (Craig Moore)
7. 07:00 AM - Re: tragic accident (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 07:00 AM - Re: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts (n801bh@netzero.com)
9. 07:09 AM - Re: Which Swaging Tool? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
10. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 07:55 AM - Re: tragic accident (Todd Osborne)
12. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
13. 09:07 AM - More fuel for the nutz/boltz fire (Zed Smith)
14. 09:22 AM - Re: More fuel for the nutz/boltz fire (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
15. 09:49 AM - Re: tragic accident (Edward Moody II)
16. 09:53 AM - Bolts (Blueraven)
17. 10:15 AM - Re: tragic accident (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
18. 10:31 AM - Re: tragic accident (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
19. 10:55 AM - Re: tragic accident (Paul Mulwitz)
20. 11:23 AM - Degaus (Tommy Walker)
21. 12:18 PM - Tragic Accident (Doug Sire)
22. 12:47 PM - Re: Tragic Accident (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
23. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts (cgalley)
24. 02:22 PM - Two Magazine Articles Featuring the 601XL (jim)
25. 04:42 PM - Stabilizer Skin (BATAR@aol.com)
26. 05:03 PM - Re: Stabilizer Skin (Graham Kirby)
27. 05:50 PM - EGTs high on descent? (LarryMcFarland)
28. 07:09 PM - Re: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts. (Gary Gower)
29. 07:09 PM - Franklin Engines? (Don Mountain)
30. 07:35 PM - Subaru oil and avgas (Michel Therrien)
31. 08:32 PM - Re: Subaru oil and avgas (Mike Sinclair)
32. 09:02 PM - Re: tragic accident (Gary Gower)
33. 10:06 PM - Re: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts (long) (Gary Gower)
34. 10:40 PM - Re: Tragic Accident... (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <Craig.Spainhower@exeloncorp.com>
I looked into using an 0-290 vs 0-235 and they are virtually the same weight.
I don't think any of the 0-290's are dynafocal mount, so you would need to
fabricate a motor mount. They are rated 125 hp and designed to burn auto gas.
Craig S.
N601XS 601xl lyc 0-235 wiring and FWF in progress.
I've got a O-290 Ground power that's probably to heavey, but myabe not.
************************************************************************
This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation
proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject
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This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity
to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
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to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Johnson" <david_a_g_johnson@btinternet.com>
If you are in the U.K. Zenith simply don't want to know. Our kits are
supplied by CZAW and they provide tech. support which I have always found to
be very good.
I tried to buy the rivet puller with the formed heads from Zenith - ordered
it on-line, order accepted etc. Months later no sign of it, when I queried
it was told they wouldn't supply until I signed some form.
If you are a U.K. builder and need help, contact Milan at CZAW, E-mail is
qm@czaw.cz
Dave Johnson
do not archive
---- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
<p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I am really surprised by your problem with Zenith. They have always
> been very responsive to me.
>
> Perhaps you need to include your serial number with your inquiry?
>
> Paul
> Xl wings
>
>
> >And, as with previous experiences, with our other friend, Richard Mc in
> >the U.K., Zenith
> >will not answer technical questions put to them, even on a Zenith
> >aircraft. Not sure what the
> >problem is here..................
> >
> >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> >do not archive
>
> -----
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" <richard@rodsley.net>
Agreed
If you are in the UK you can forget Zenith completely. We had a serious
problem and they simply refused to answer or even acknowledge any
communications.
The UK distributor is equally useless but the Czech people are excellent.
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Johnson" <david_a_g_johnson@btinternet.com>
Sent: 07 March 2006 13:04
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Johnson"
> <david_a_g_johnson@btinternet.com>
>
> If you are in the U.K. Zenith simply don't want to know. Our kits are
> supplied by CZAW and they provide tech. support which I have always found
> to
> be very good.
>
> I tried to buy the rivet puller with the formed heads from Zenith -
> ordered
> it on-line, order accepted etc. Months later no sign of it, when I queried
> it was told they wouldn't supply until I signed some form.
>
> If you are a U.K. builder and need help, contact Milan at CZAW, E-mail is
> qm@czaw.cz
>
> Dave Johnson
>
> do not archive
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 12:20 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>>
>> I am really surprised by your problem with Zenith. They have always
>> been very responsive to me.
>>
>> Perhaps you need to include your serial number with your inquiry?
>>
>> Paul
>> Xl wings
>>
>>
>>
>> >And, as with previous experiences, with our other friend, Richard Mc in
>> >the U.K., Zenith
>> >will not answer technical questions put to them, even on a Zenith
>> >aircraft. Not sure what the
>> >problem is here..................
>> >
>> >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>> >do not archive
>>
>> -----
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Which Swaging Tool? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com
I have a tool that appears to be identical to the Aircraft Spruce economy
tool, I got it at Home Depot.
Carroll
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Which Swaging Tool? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Make sure you check the squeezes for the correct diameter. American Champion
just had an AD for that on their factory built Nico-Press control cables.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Trainnut01@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Which Swaging Tool?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com
>
> I have a tool that appears to be identical to the Aircraft Spruce economy
> tool, I got it at Home Depot.
> Carroll
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: lycoming 235 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
Hello,
I don't know the latest details about the company, but
Franklin has new 4A-235-B31 (125 hp) engines listed on
their site for $6900. Fits on an O-200 mount.
http://franklinengines.com/index.cfm
Craig Moore A&P
701 Builder wannabe
--- Craig.Spainhower@exeloncorp.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> <Craig.Spainhower@exeloncorp.com>
>
> I looked into using an 0-290 vs 0-235 and they are
> virtually the same weight.
> I don't think any of the 0-290's are dynafocal
> mount, so you would need to
> fabricate a motor mount. They are rated 125 hp and
> designed to burn auto gas.
>
> Craig S.
> N601XS 601xl lyc 0-235 wiring and FWF in progress.
>
> I've got a O-290 Ground power that's probably to
> heavey, but myabe not.
>
>
>
************************************************************************
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> confidential, or subject
> to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation
> family of Companies.
> This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the
> individual or entity
> to which it is addressed. If you are not the
> intended recipient of this
> e-mail, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination, distribution,
> copying, or action taken in relation to the contents
> of and attachments
> to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be
> unlawful. If you have
> received this e-mail in error, please notify the
> sender immediately and
> permanently delete the original and any copy of this
> e-mail and any
> printout. Thank You.
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Admin.
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Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
No but isn't this the second example of this happening recently??
I do hope they identify the cause quickly so the entire fleet can be
inspected. Us HD(s) owners had a bunch of wing spar slice plates with
holes too close to the edge...Did'nt hear of any failures due to this
though.
I hope ZAC is all over this one??
Frank
HDS 392 hours...For sale very soon
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fritz
Gurschick
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: tragic accident
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
Has anyone heard as to what went wrong to cause this tragic
accident?-------- Fritz
NTSB Identification: LAX06LA105
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Wednesday, February 08, 2006 in Oakdale, CA
Aircraft: Zenith Aircraft Company Zodiac 601XL,
registration: N105RH
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
report has been completed.
On February 8, 2006, at 1518 Pacific standard time, an experimental
Zenith Aircraft Company Zodiac 601XL, broke up in flight and impacted
flat open terrain in a nose down attitude near Oakdale Airport (O27),
Oakdale, California. The pilot/owner operated the airplane under the
provisions of 14 CFR Part 91. The airplane was destroyed. The private
pilot/owner and the certified flight instructor (CFI) were fatally
injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the local area
flight that departed Modesto City-County Airport-Harry Sham Field (MOD),
Modesto, California, about 1500. No flight plan had been filed.
Witnesses, who saw them boarding at Modesto, indicated that the CFI was
seated in the left seat, and the pilot/owner was seated in the right
seat.
According to witnesses in the area, the airplane entered the pattern for
landing at Oakdale about 1515.
The left wing bent up (perpendicular to the fuselage) and folded back
and the airplane started to spin to the right. Other witnesses reported
that the airplane completed one full revolution before the right wing
bent up (perpendicular to the fuselage) and folded back. The airplane's
nose pitched down between 60-70 degrees, and impacted the ground. No
unusual noises were heard coming from the engine.
According to a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) airworthiness
inspector, the airplane was purchased in Hemet, California. The airplane
was delivered to Modesto on December 15, 2005, where it sat in its
hangar until the day of the accident.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
There is another under laying cause for the "breaking" of the grade 8
bolts.
It's not the fact that they are grade 8 alone. Probably not the right size,
not torqued properly, over torqued, no locking nuts, pins, etc, or a
combination of the aforementioned. Somebody forgot to do something. Six
properly install 3/8" grade 8 bolts would not be the problem.
Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This problem all came up several years ago for one big reason. There were some
bogus companies fromaround the globe manufacturing poor quality bolts and marking
them as grade8 to increase their profit margin. This first surfaced in the
racing comunity because of the nature of the business. We strived to hold the
car/boat or whatever racing craft together with the best stuff for safety and
durability. We assumed the wholesaler was honest and we quickly found out that
was not the case. This started the whole debate on grade8 being inferior. Aircraft
stuff had a far better way to deal with quality control, that was to hold
the manufacturer, wholesaler to a paper trail of traceability. Even that didn't
stop all the fraud to happen but it was a lot less in that market. Some
companies were charged and found guilty. There was even one that was based in
the far east where the owner did fall on the sword. It turned out all the people
who bought for the major manufacturers like Dorman, ARP,Fastenal, and others
didn't experience the same level of poor quality stuff. As cy pointed out the
incident in question was found to have one AN bolt that didn't fail and five
other ones that were marked as grade8 but turned out to be of far less quality.
Funny how that part of the story never lives on like the rest of it does.
do not archive
There is another under laying cause for the "breaking" of the grade 8
bolts.
It's not the fact that they are grade 8 alone. Probably not the right size,
not torqued properly, over torqued, no locking nuts, pins, etc, or a
combination of the aforementioned. Somebody forgot to do something. Six
properly install 3/8" grade 8 bolts would not be the problem.
Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This problem all came up several years ago for one big reason. There were some
bogus companies fromaround the globe manufacturing poor quality bolts and marking
them as grade8 to increase their profit margin. This first surfaced in the
racing comunity because of the nature of the business. We strived to hold the
car/boat or whatever racing craft together with the best stuff for safety and
durability. We assumed the wholesaler was honest and we quickly found out that
was not the case. This started the whole debate on grade8 being inferior. Aircraft
stuff had a far better way to deal with quality control, that was to hold
the manufacturer, wholesaler to a paper trail of traceability. Even that didn't
stop all the fraud to happen but it was a lot less in that market. Some companies
were charged and found guilty. There was even one that was based in the
far east where the owner did fall on the sword. It turned out all the people
who bought for the major manufacturers like Dorman, ARP,Fastenal, and others
didn't experience the same level of poor quality stuff. As cy pointed out the
incident in question was found to have one AN bolt that didn't fail and five
other ones that were marked as grade8 but turned out to be of far less quality.
Funny how that part of the story never lives on like the rest of it does.
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Which Swaging Tool? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Have a chat to your local boat yard if one is nearby....Those little nut
and bolt swagers are a pain in the rear! My local boat yard let me
borrow theirs but I bet if you offered them a hefty deposit they would
let you borrow one for say $10....The big professional units are like
night and day...Sooo much easier to use!
Just a thought
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Which Swaging Tool?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
I am using the big professional one, also from Spruce, is like a chain
cutter pliers but with the swages calibrated.
part number: 12-12400 SWAGING TOOL 1-SC WITH CUTTER
Also got the Go- noGo tool inexpensive but necesary:
13-03814 GA-1P GO NO-GO SLEEVE GAUGE
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Just a note that it is very difficult to break a bolt in service due to
over torquing...USUALLY IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE UNDER TORQUED. The
torques listed for AN hardware is extremly low IMO. OK in shear
applications (most of the airframe) but not in cyclic tension
applications like a prop hub or something.
It goes like this...For a cyclicly tesioned bolt the torque should be
high enough such that the tension in the fastener is higher than is seen
in service. I.e when a cylinder head is torqued down the tension in the
studs (bolts) is always the same because the pre tension in the bolt is
higher than is caused by the combustion process. If the tension is less
than the cyclic load the bolt will eventually fail due to the repetive
cyclic forces the fastener sees.
Lesson...Always make sure your bolts (in cyclic load applications) are
torqued properly and er on the side of over torquing rather than under
torquing if your unsure or have no choice such as when using a castle
nut and cotter pin
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
n801bh@netzero.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
--> <n801bh@netzero.com>
There is another under laying cause for the "breaking" of the grade 8
bolts.
It's not the fact that they are grade 8 alone. Probably not the right
size, not torqued properly, over torqued, no locking nuts, pins, etc, or
a combination of the aforementioned. Somebody forgot to do something.
Six properly install 3/8" grade 8 bolts would not be the problem.
Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
//////////
This problem all came up several years ago for one big reason. There
were some bogus companies fromaround the globe manufacturing poor
quality bolts and marking them as grade8 to increase their profit
margin. This first surfaced in the racing comunity because of the nature
of the business. We strived to hold the car/boat or
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Todd Osborne" <todd@toddtown.com>
Isn't this the same accident we heard about right after it happened?
Todd Osborne
Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com
Web Site: www.toddtown.com
MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com
AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 3/6/2006 9:37:44 PM Central Standard Time,
ggower_99@yahoo.com writes:
No, not at all. What problem do you had?
Saludos
Gary Gower
Gary, No problem as they are not yet installed.
My question was sent to add the metric bolts to the subject, rather than to
ignore them.
Prop bolts are the ones we need to know about, and maintain often.
Do you happen to know how the metric bolts fit into the grade 8/ AN/MS
strength question?
Regards, Jerry
Message 13
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| Subject: | More fuel for the nutz/boltz fire |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
List,
I'm told by a heavy equipment mechanic, who is employed by a Caterpillar distributor,
that Cat manufactures its own fasteners. Bolts, nuts, flat washers and
lock washers, etc.
This astute gent says that given the strength requirement for their needs, Cat
long ago quit the open market and produces these items internally.
Most newer or later model Cat equipment is built metric for the global market,
he says, but adds that Cat still produces non-metric for the repair of older pre-metric
machines.
For whatever its worth, and as pricey as they may be, this fellow says that a Cat
"Grade 8" does meet all the requirements, published somewhere, for that Grade.
Those amongst the heavy equipment crowd can jump in here at will.....the usual
disclaimer applies.
For whatever its worth,
Regards,
Zed
701/R912/90%/etc
do not archive do not over-torque
Message 14
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| Subject: | More fuel for the nutz/boltz fire |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
More importantly do not UNDER torque!
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zed Smith
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:04 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: More fuel for the nutz/boltz fire
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
List,
I'm told by a heavy equipment mechanic, who is employed by a Caterpillar
distributor, that Cat manufactures its own fasteners. Bolts, nuts, flat
washers and lock washers, etc.
This astute gent says that given the strength requirement for their
needs, Cat long ago quit the open market and produces these items
internally.
Most newer or later model Cat equipment is built metric for the global
market, he says, but adds that Cat still produces non-metric for the
repair of older pre-metric machines.
For whatever its worth, and as pricey as they may be, this fellow says
that a Cat "Grade 8" does meet all the requirements, published
somewhere, for that Grade.
Those amongst the heavy equipment crowd can jump in here at will.....the
usual disclaimer applies.
For whatever its worth,
Regards,
Zed
701/R912/90%/etc
do not archive do not over-torque
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: tragic accident |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
This accident is the same one that was brought up on the list about 5 - 6
weeks ago. Still it would be good to hear what the cause was.
Ed Moody II
Rayne LA
601XL waiting on kit
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: tragic accident
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> No but isn't this the second example of this happening recently??
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fritz
> Gurschick
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 6:11 PM
> To: Zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: tragic accident
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
>
> Has anyone heard as to what went wrong to cause this tragic
> accident?-------- Fritz
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Blueraven <bluedog@ak.net>
Hey,
I'm new to the forum and wanted to say something abt the bolts question.
:-)
I have designed some hyd systems for an auger and usually there is a
weak link that you can allow to fail so the rest of the sytem
doesn't fail.
I'd never 2nd guess a designers materials usage.. Well i wld since im so
damn curious and an Engineer. But for the most part i wouldnt change
things for no reason.
I'd have to have a 'design' reason, not a money reason. =-O
An axle for a wheel needs to be strong and not break. On the other hand,
the grade 8's are pretty brittle and the spec'd bolts will flex w/o
breaking long after the 8's will break. =-O
I wldnt do it.. >:o
Best Regards..
BR
=============
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: tragic accident |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
This to all 601XL drivers, based on the description from the eye witness of
the accident, that the wing folded back, we have been brain storming what would
have to occur to set that in motion and the hypothesis on first blush is if
the ONE bolt that attaches the rear wing spar to the bracket on the side of the
fuselage was to fail or fall out with air pushing and twisting rearward
against the wing it could fold back perpendicular to the fuselage. Something like
a
Grumman Hellcat parked on a deck. Without any more information I am removing
my bolts this weekend before I fly again and inspect those bolts and the
bracket.
Best regards, Bill N505WP
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Out of interest has anyone asked ZAC about what they know about this
accident?
Frank 601HDS
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: tragic accident
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
This to all 601XL drivers, based on the description from the eye witness
of the accident, that the wing folded back, we have been brain storming
what would have to occur to set that in motion and the hypothesis on
first blush is if the ONE bolt that attaches the rear wing spar to the
bracket on the side of the fuselage was to fail or fall out with air
pushing and twisting rearward against the wing it could fold back
perpendicular to the fuselage. Something like a Grumman Hellcat parked
on a deck. Without any more information I am removing my bolts this
weekend before I fly again and inspect those bolts and the bracket.
Best regards, Bill N505WP
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: tragic accident |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Thanks for this analysis, Bill.
I wonder if anyone has asked Chris about this issue. It would seem
easy enough to add additional bolts to the rear spar if this is even
a remote possibility.
I am not at all qualified to have a significant opinion on anything
like this, but it seems to me that failure of the main spar or
perhaps failure of a line of rivets in the skin could also cause the
wing to fold.
I would really like to know what the NTSB concludes about this
accident. I would also like to hear anything Chris Heintz has to say
on this issue. I hope someone who has his ear brings this to his
attention and urges him to speak on this kind of major structural failure.
This is really spooky!
Paul
XL wings
> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
>This to all 601XL drivers, based on the description from the eye witness of
>the accident, that the wing folded back, we have been brain storming
>what would
>have to occur to set that in motion and the hypothesis on first blush is if
>the ONE bolt that attaches the rear wing spar to the bracket on the
>side of the
>fuselage was to fail or fall out with air pushing and twisting rearward
>against the wing it could fold back perpendicular to the fuselage.
>Something like a
>Grumman Hellcat parked on a deck. Without any more information I am removing
>my bolts this weekend before I fly again and inspect those bolts and the
>bracket.
>Best regards, Bill N505WP
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Listers,
Is there a homemade way to demagnetize the 4130 steel tubing in my 701 cabin frame
before I rivet it in place? The cabin tubing and the Yoke appear to be pulling
the compass to the west by about 8 degrees. I can actually change heading
sitting here in my 10x20 garage by moving the yoke.
If there's not a homemade way to do this, does anyone have a commercial solution.
I live in a small town with few resources.
Thanks,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Sire" <dsire@imt.net>
I'm thinking some of the circumstances surrounding the flight seem a bit odd.
-The NTSB report states that the aircraft was delivered on 12/15/05 and
sat in a hanger until the day of the flight/accident. So, this was
apparently the first flight by the new owner, and he had an instructor as
PIC (how much did these two weigh?). He may not have had any familiarity
with the aircraft.
-It appeared to be a nice day; winds were only three knots with good
visibility.
-The flight only lasted 15 minutes.
-Since they were approaching to land, their airspped was slow.
So, it doesn't look like an accident that could have been caused by any
severe aerodynamics stress on the airframe. I'm wondering how the owner
took delivery. Were the wings removed and then the aircraft was shipped
to the buyer? Maybe the wing spar bolts were not all replaced. Maybe
they were removed for inspection and not replaced. Why didn't the
airplane fly for about two months after delivery?
If this was a first flight, you would think it would have lasted more than
15 minutes. Possibly the pilot felt that something didn't feel right
(loose wings) after takeoff and was returning to check it out.
It is also entirely possible that the eyewitness accounts got it wrong and
it was just an approach to landing stall that was the result of a first
flight unfamiliarity with the aircraft. Eyewitnesses can often be very
unreliable.
I doubt it will prove to be a reflection on the quality of the design.
Doug Sire
601XL
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I assume the wing attach uses the tired and trusted spar slice plates
and single bolt at the rear spar. I do know some examples of the HD(S)
had problems with the rear attach cracking but I never heard of one
failing catastrophically.
Definatly a weired one but I agree with you Doug I doubt it's a design
flaw but I do hope the results are made VERY public.
Makes you think though, I am working on the RV7 and thought I had
tightened all the oil lines to the invert system....Nope they are still
finger tight as are the prop bolts. I could see how a critical fastener
could be missed.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sire
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 12:15 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Tragic Accident
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Sire" <dsire@imt.net>
I'm thinking some of the circumstances surrounding the flight seem a bit
odd.
-The NTSB report states that the aircraft was delivered on 12/15/05 and
sat in a hanger until the day of the flight/accident. So, this was
apparently the first flight by the new owner, and he had an instructor
as
PIC (how much did these two weigh?). He may not have had any
familiarity
with the aircraft.
-It appeared to be a nice day; winds were only three knots with good
visibility.
-The flight only lasted 15 minutes.
-Since they were approaching to land, their airspped was slow.
So, it doesn't look like an accident that could have been caused by any
severe aerodynamics stress on the airframe. I'm wondering how the
owner
took delivery. Were the wings removed and then the aircraft was
shipped
to the buyer? Maybe the wing spar bolts were not all replaced. Maybe
they were removed for inspection and not replaced. Why didn't the
airplane fly for about two months after delivery?
If this was a first flight, you would think it would have lasted more
than
15 minutes. Possibly the pilot felt that something didn't feel right
(loose wings) after takeoff and was returning to check it out.
It is also entirely possible that the eyewitness accounts got it wrong
and it was just an approach to landing stall that was the result of a
first
flight unfamiliarity with the aircraft. Eyewitnesses can often be very
unreliable.
I doubt it will prove to be a reflection on the quality of the design.
Doug Sire
601XL
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
You are correct but since things don't always get the proper treatment, it
was interesting to find the bolt that lasted the longest was the less
brittle, tougher AN bolt which is legal for a prop. Class 8s are not legal
for certified.
Cy Galley - Chair,
Air Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: <n801bh@netzero.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
> <n801bh@netzero.com>
>
>
> There is another under laying cause for the "breaking" of the grade 8
> bolts.
> It's not the fact that they are grade 8 alone. Probably not the right
> size,
> not torqued properly, over torqued, no locking nuts, pins, etc, or a
> combination of the aforementioned. Somebody forgot to do something. Six
> properly install 3/8" grade 8 bolts would not be the problem.
>
> Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
>
> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> This problem all came up several years ago for one big reason. There were
> some bogus companies fromaround the globe manufacturing poor quality bolts
> and marking them as grade8 to increase their profit margin. This first
> surfaced in the racing comunity because of the nature of the business. We
> strived to hold the car/boat or whatever racing craft together with the
> best stuff for safety and durability. We assumed the wholesaler was
> honest and we quickly found out that was not the case. This started the
> whole debate on grade8 being inferior. Aircraft stuff had a far better way
> to deal with quality control, that was to hold the manufacturer,
> wholesaler to a paper trail of traceability. Even that didn't stop all the
> fraud to happen but it was a lot less in that market. Some companies were
> charged and found guilty. There was even one that was based in the far
> east where the owner did fall on the sword. It turned out all the people
> who bought for the major manufacturers like Dorm!
> an, ARP,Fastenal, and others didn't experience the same level of poor
> quality stuff. As cy pointed out the incident in question was found to
> have one AN bolt that didn't fail and five other ones that were marked as
> grade8 but turned out to be of far less quality. Funny how that part of
> the story never lives on like the rest of it does.
>
> do not archive
>
>
> There is another under laying cause for the "breaking" of the grade 8
> bolts.
> It's not the fact that they are grade 8 alone. Probably not the right
> size,
> not torqued properly, over torqued, no locking nuts, pins, etc, or a
> combination of the aforementioned. Somebody forgot to do something. Six
> properly install 3/8" grade 8 bolts would not be the problem.
>
> Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
>
> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
>
> This problem all came up several years ago for one big reason. There were
> some bogus companies fromaround the globe manufacturing poor quality bolts
> and marking them as grade8 to increase their profit margin. This first
> surfaced in the racing comunity because of the nature of the business. We
> strived to hold the car/boat or whatever racing craft together with the
> best stuff for safety and durability. We assumed the wholesaler was honest
> and we quickly found out that was not the case. This started the whole
> debate on grade8 being inferior. Aircraft stuff had a far better way to
> deal with quality control, that was to hold the manufacturer, wholesaler
> to a paper trail of traceability. Even that didn't stop all the fraud to
> happen but it was a lot less in that market. Some companies were charged
> and found guilty. There was even one that was based in the far east where
> the owner did fall on the sword. It turned out all the people who bought
> for the major manufacturers like Dorman!
> , ARP,Fastenal, and others didn't experience the same level of poor
> quality stuff. As cy pointed out the incident in question was found to
> have one AN bolt that didn't fail and five other ones that were marked as
> grade8 but turned out to be of far less quality. Funny how that part of
> the story never lives on like the rest of it does.
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Two Magazine Articles Featuring the 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" <jim@pellien.com>
All,
There will be feature articles on my 1-Week Sport Pilot School and our
Zenair 601XL SLSA in the April 2006 issues of "Plane and Pilot"
and "Popular Mechanics". Both magazines will be on the shelves within
the next week.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Center of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
Jim@Pellien.com
Sent via the WebMail system at mail.pellien.com
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: BATAR@aol.com
Help! I finished the stabilizer frame, and placed the skin on it, and found
it too short on the bottom side.
The end ribs, 6T1-1, measure just about 450 mm from the front tip to the
rear on both the top and bottom. The skin measures 450 on the top, and 425 on
the bottom. If I put the skin flush against the rear edge of the bottom of
the frame, it doesn't fit around the front of the rib. If I put the curve of
the skin even with the nose of the rib, it doesn't reach the rear edge of the
frame.
Any guesses what I have done wrong.
Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Al Massey
Readfield, Maine
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" <graham@601hd.com>
Al,
Assuming this is a 601 and that the 601s all have the same stab: From your
descriptions it sounds like you may have the front and rear spars the wrong
way round. The rear spar has a flange facing rearwards on the top and
forwards on the bottom. This is why the top skin is longer.
The drawing on 6-T-2 labeled "Stabilizer Skin Riveting" should explain.
Graham Kirby
601HD
--> Zenith-List message posted by: BATAR@aol.com
Help! I finished the stabilizer frame, and placed the skin on it, and
found
it too short on the bottom side.
Message 27
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| Subject: | EGTs high on descent? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
*Hi guys,*
*It was suggested that the following should be put into Zenith pages because a
912 Rotax with
Bings might just provide a similar experience to one I recently had with my Stratus.*
*I was flying yesterday and noticed something interesting for those of us with
Bing carbs.
EGTs had climbed to their normal 1420 at high climb 4800 rpm and the higher I got
(4500 ft),
the more the EGTs drifted lower. It eventually permitted a high rpm without going
above the 1400 deg f.
Nice for a good cross-country cruise, but as I descended to land, EGTs climbed
back up to set-limits on
my EIS and rpms had to be reduced to keep EGTs at or below limits. Not something
I worried about, but
it seemed strange to see EGTs going the wrong way while descending. On final everything
was well below
limits, but I was wondering about the altitude compensating carbs and if they ever
get out of whack or
is this normal. I posted an inquiry for others experiences.*
*Don Walker wrote:*
*I dunno, just brainstorming with you. Looks like increased speed would increase
cowl pressure to affect
the mixture...and vice versa. Rate of descent may have something to do with it,
too. I assume you are
letting down at three to five hundred fpm? I am glad you are noting these things,
Larry, Helps us all. Don*
*Don,
I spoke with technical support person at Bing and he said that on
descent, sometimes cowl pressure under lowering throttle settings
are still enough to lean out the mixture a bit and temps will go up.
You were right. He also said that the enrichment (choke) cable could
be pulled during the descent while rpms are reduced from 4500 rpm to 3500 rpm
and the EGTs should return to normal. I'd have to try that on the next flight out.*
*Hi guys,*
*I called the Bing folks and was advised that rising EGTs during descent could
be countered
by using a little choke enrichment. Yesterdays flight proved that as we descended
from 4000 feet at
500 fpm to 2500 ft. EGTs hit the set-point of 1450-degrees, and the warning light
flashed, so I pulled
just a little (choke) enrichment and the EGTs dropped to 1390-degrees F rather
quickly and stayed under
1400-degrees the rest of the way. We had a 42-degree ambient temp and the rest
of the temps were in the green.
Anyway, it worked.*
*Fly safe,*
*Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Stratus at 85 hours - at www.macsmachine.com*
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hope I get the idea right, But what realy holds the propeller in place is the
even and correct pressure of the propeller to the hub, not the bolts directly.
if torqued correctly they will not fail. If they are loose the vibration
from the engine (moving the propeller over the hub) will cut them, sooner or
later, as a cold shisel (sp?) will not matter if they are 1" diameter AN bolts.
or 1/4" diameter Grade 8.
Some countries, and here some 20 years ago, where importing was a real problem:
Time, money and paperwork and most time the parts were lost in Customs, but
the bush pilots kept flying, Common sence and bench destroy testing, gave
good and no good options to all of us.
Yes, now with NAFTA we can get easy all AN parts we need realy soon , just pay
shipping (courrier) and some "mild" paperwork most of the times...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
"n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
There is another under laying cause for the "breaking" of the grade 8
bolts.
It's not the fact that they are grade 8 alone. Probably not the right size,
not torqued properly, over torqued, no locking nuts, pins, etc, or a
combination of the aforementioned. Somebody forgot to do something. Six
properly install 3/8" grade 8 bolts would not be the problem.
Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This problem all came up several years ago for one big reason. There were some
bogus companies fromaround the globe manufacturing poor quality bolts and marking
them as grade8 to increase their profit margin. This first surfaced in the
racing comunity because of the nature of the business. We strived to hold the
car/boat or whatever racing craft together with the best stuff for safety and
durability. We assumed the wholesaler was honest and we quickly found out that
was not the case. This started the whole debate on grade8 being inferior. Aircraft
stuff had a far better way to deal with quality control, that was to hold
the manufacturer, wholesaler to a paper trail of traceability. Even that didn't
stop all the fraud to happen but it was a lot less in that market. Some companies
were charged and found guilty. There was even one that was based in the
far east where the owner did fall on the sword. It turned out all the people
who bought for the major manufacturers like Dorm!
an, ARP,Fastenal, and others didn't experience the same level of poor quality stuff.
As cy pointed out the incident in question was found to have one AN bolt
that didn't fail and five other ones that were marked as grade8 but turned out
to be of far less quality. Funny how that part of the story never lives on like
the rest of it does.
do not archive
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Franklin Engines? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
Whats the scoop on these Franklin engines? Who makes them? How long have they
been around? Where are they made? Are they any good? Does anybody have one
flying? Are they any relation to the old Franklin radial engines made many years
ago?
Don Mountain
---------------------------------
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Subaru oil and avgas |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I'm presently using Castrol Syntech 5-50 oil on my
Subaru powered CH601-HD. Now, I'd like to make longer
flights and use avgas, but I learned that synthetic
oil is no good with leaded gas.
I'm wondering if anyone here flying a Subaru uses
aviation oil on their automotive conversions. I'm
thinking about the Shell 15w-40 semi-synthetic oil.
Are there any other good alternatives for oil
compatible with avgas?
Michel
do not archive
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Subaru oil and avgas |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
Michel
I don't remember whether it was someone from LEAF or from Lockwood that
told me, but I'm using Valvoline Durablend 10w-40 in my 912. It's a semi
synthetic and from my limited understanding, it suspends the lead
particles that would accumulate on the internal surfaces of the engine. I
was told that it will work with mogas and avgas, bit if using avgas
during any period the oil changes are then supposed to be on a more
frequent basis. I would suspect that the Subaru is affected much the same
as the Rotax. It has got my curiosity up and now I'm going to have to
look back into the pro's and con's of the different types of oil. I do
know that my original engine documentation listed several brands of oil,
but when I tried to locate them (such as this one Shell designation that
seemed to be the one for an occasional avgas usage), I was told that
these types listed in the Rotax documentation were European blends only
and not available in the US. That was when I started the phone calls to
the experts. I believe I still have the answer somewhere, but am unable
to locate it right now, so will now need to begin the questioning again.
I did a search of the archives and didn't find a suitable answer there.
It is also possible that a current answer may be in the Rotax service
bulletins but haven't had a chance to peruse them again yet (but it is on
my to do right away list). If anyone out there can point us in the right
direction for this information, or have a definitive answer on oil types,
it would be much appreciated.
Mike Sinclair N701TD Back out of Phase I, and most certainly impressed
with the performance of the 912uls as compared to the 80hp engine. It's
like a whole new airplane! At gross it outperforms what it used to do
with just me and minimum fuel. Though being a 701 it still don't go fast,
just gets up there quicker.
Michel Therrien wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> I'm presently using Castrol Syntech 5-50 oil on my
> Subaru powered CH601-HD. Now, I'd like to make longer
> flights and use avgas, but I learned that synthetic
> oil is no good with leaded gas.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone here flying a Subaru uses
> aviation oil on their automotive conversions. I'm
> thinking about the Shell 15w-40 semi-synthetic oil.
> Are there any other good alternatives for oil
> compatible with avgas?
>
> Michel
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
Message 32
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Yes, is the same one, I think we all have to wait for the FAA (NTBS?) final
report to posible know what happened, every other possiblity will only be wild
thinking now.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Todd Osborne"
Isn't this the same accident we heard about right after it happened?
Todd Osborne
Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com
Web Site: www.toddtown.com
MSN (Windows) Messenger: todd@toddtown.com
AOL Instant Messenger: toddosborn@aol.com
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Grades of Nuts & Bolts (long) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Got it, sorry Jerry... Just got a little lost :-)
My personal experience of almost 15 years flying 80% of the weekends here using
almost all the Rotax engines (447, 503, 618, 532, 582 and now 912S) also with
the experience of all the ultralight pilots in our Club, and half of the
country (as a Builder Adviser), never had or got refered a problem with the
metric bolts that come with the engine or their replacements (Grade 8 or a AN
European equivalent?) when used as propellers attachment.
We also used almost all type and brand of propellers known, USA and Europe,
Composite (adjustable) with alum center part, all wood, wood blades (adjustable)
with alum center part., etc...
We always torque and retorque as specified (Factory and Mantainance manuals).
As I told early, torque is 99.99999 % of good service, all adjustables every
25 or 50 hours (at least once a year). Wooden every change of season (at last
at the beguining of dry and also rain season).
Normally Rotax bolts are installed in treaded hubs (tight and torqued) and they
also use an extra nylon safety nut as "double tight" (sp?), instead of the
safety wire.
To retorque, we remove first the safety nylon nut, then retorque and reinstall
a NEW safety nut. Safety wire ones, as normal procedure...
I remember... Once did happened here a lost prop in flight, not because of
the bolts, but was a funny (and safe) event:
This pilot was the first and only Trike (weight shift) Pioneer and Instructor
here at that time. We all (trike flyers) learned to fly with him...
His old trike, well mantained, with already several new wings, but the same old
Robin engine with a cog belt reduction, they had all the hours in the world
(no hourmeter, no logs, good old times), that engine never missed a beat, always
started at the 3rd hand pull (no starter or cord pull), primed in cold or
with engine hot, always just 3 pulls and started... was amasing.
One Saturday, we were all in the Clubs terrace, he landed with the engine stoped
(he used to do it normally to practice engine out landings with his students).
He walked to the group and with his characteristic calm voice asked:
"Have you seen a propeller?" " I just lost it in flight".
Imagine the face of all of us!!! "WHAT?" We all looked around and found
it half our later...
What happened was that the reduction and the hub were a single machined piece,
fortunally had a safety shaft inside the reduction. The red/hub failed exactly
in the middle and the prop just flew away backwards, when lost speed (and
pressure to the engine over the shaft) he was flying over the club when happened
so while gliding he had the chance to see the prop for several minutes
until lost its sight...
The reduction was rebuilt in my factory's lathe and two years later was "forced
donated" to our Clubs Museum, where is waiting "restoration" :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower.
JERICKSON03E@aol.com wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 3/6/2006 9:37:44 PM Central Standard Time,
ggower_99@yahoo.com writes:
No, not at all. What problem do you had?
Saludos
Gary Gower
Gary, No problem as they are not yet installed.
My question was sent to add the metric bolts to the subject, rather than to
ignore them.
Prop bolts are the ones we need to know about, and maintain often.
Do you happen to know how the metric bolts fit into the grade 8/ AN/MS
strength question?
Regards, Jerry
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Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Tragic Accident... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
We can think million of possibilities, but we have no facts in hand. Lets wait
for the experts results, hope dont take too long.
The ZAC airplanes are simple built and strong, not much chance for structural
failure. Also always there is the chance of something missing in last assemble...
(human factor), .
But also will be unfair to blame the final assembler.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive
Doug Sire <dsire@imt.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Sire"
I'm thinking some of the circumstances surrounding the flight seem a bit odd.
-The NTSB report states that the aircraft was delivered on 12/15/05 and
sat in a hanger until the day of the flight/accident. So, this was
apparently the first flight by the new owner, and he had an instructor as
PIC (how much did these two weigh?). He may not have had any familiarity
with the aircraft.
-It appeared to be a nice day; winds were only three knots with good
visibility.
-The flight only lasted 15 minutes.
-Since they were approaching to land, their airspped was slow.
So, it doesn't look like an accident that could have been caused by any
severe aerodynamics stress on the airframe. I'm wondering how the owner
took delivery. Were the wings removed and then the aircraft was shipped
to the buyer? Maybe the wing spar bolts were not all replaced. Maybe
they were removed for inspection and not replaced. Why didn't the
airplane fly for about two months after delivery?
If this was a first flight, you would think it would have lasted more than
15 minutes. Possibly the pilot felt that something didn't feel right
(loose wings) after takeoff and was returning to check it out.
It is also entirely possible that the eyewitness accounts got it wrong and
it was just an approach to landing stall that was the result of a first
flight unfamiliarity with the aircraft. Eyewitnesses can often be very
unreliable.
I doubt it will prove to be a reflection on the quality of the design.
Doug Sire
601XL
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