---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/13/06: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:21 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 03/12/06 (Mike Hoffman) 2. 02:49 AM - Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Larry Portouw) 3. 05:39 AM - Re: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Robert N. Eli) 4. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate (Bill Steer) 5. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate (Trainnut01@aol.com) 6. 07:02 AM - Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Garrou, Douglas) 7. 07:31 AM - Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 8. 07:43 AM - Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Kelly Meiste) 9. 08:25 AM - brake fluid color change? (Bill Mileski) 10. 09:31 AM - Re: brake fluid color change? (Mike Sinclair) 11. 10:52 AM - Re: brake fluid color change? (Aaron Gustafson) 12. 11:17 AM - Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Jim Hoak) 13. 11:21 AM - Re: brake fluid color change? (Bill Mileski) 14. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate (Jim Hoak) 15. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate () 16. 01:35 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate (messydeer) 17. 04:03 PM - Re: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. (Bill+Rose) 18. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Bill+Rose) 19. 04:32 PM - Tornado Damage at Bentonville Airport - 3/12/2006 (John Hines) 20. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (George Swinford) 21. 05:12 PM - N601MX Flies! (Phil Maxson) 22. 05:55 PM - Re: N601MX Flies! (Rick Lindstrom) 23. 06:00 PM - Re: N601MX Flies! (Mike) 24. 06:20 PM - Re: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Bill+Rose) 25. 06:20 PM - Re: N601MX Flies! (Bill+Rose) 26. 06:26 PM - 701 Elevator twist? (Charles Kyle) 27. 07:34 PM - Re: 701 Elevator twist? (Paul Mulwitz) 28. 07:51 PM - Re: Tornado Damage at Bentonville Airport - 3/12/2006 (Steve Hulland) 29. 08:17 PM - Zenith Builder Free Lunch (Zodie Rocket) 30. 09:17 PM - Re: 701 Elevator twist? (Graham Kirby) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:42 AM PST US From: "Mike Hoffman" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Zenith-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 03/12/06 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike Hoffman" Do not archive Hi Mark, Please add 2 more to attend the barbeque. Mike & Sue 701 Kit working on fus ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:30 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? From: "Larry Portouw" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Portouw" FWIW, I'm not using any. Although currently in Georgia, I will soon be back in Arizona with the intent of staying there. Airplane will be hangared, 6061-T6 is corrosioin resistant clear through, and I don't want my heirs inheriting the liability by selling the thing when I'm gone. Don't want to grow a third eye-ball from the chromate, either. Just my 2 cents, but I see no reason why a Zenith wouldn't hold up well for 20 years or so if away from coastal or NE acid rain climates. Corrosion proofing seems to qualify as the immortal thread. I suspect there are lots of non-corrosion proofing lurkers out there... -------- Larry Portouw 601XL Kit (H. Stab) Atlanta, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21425#21425 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:03 AM PST US From: "Robert N. Eli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert N. Eli" Larry, I am building a 701 without any corrosion protection during the building process. The only thing I plan to do is to perhaps spray some ACF-50 anti corrosion formula (www.acf-50.com) along the metal to metal contact surfaces through inspection plate openings (that I am installing) after assembly. And I may not end up doing that much. I talked personally with Chris Heintz, and also the sons, about this on several occasions, and all agree the 6061-T6 does not need any protection if you aren't exposing it to salt air on a regular basis. They were fully aware that I am building without any corrosion proofing, and saw no problem in doing so. Bob Eli N701K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Portouw" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 5:47 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Portouw" > > FWIW, I'm not using any. Although currently in Georgia, I will soon be > back in Arizona with the intent of staying there. Airplane will be > hangared, 6061-T6 is corrosioin resistant clear through, and I don't want > my heirs inheriting the liability by selling the thing when I'm gone. > Don't want to grow a third eye-ball from the chromate, either. Just my 2 > cents, but I see no reason why a Zenith wouldn't hold up well for 20 years > or so if away from coastal or NE acid rain climates. Corrosion proofing > seems to qualify as the immortal thread. I suspect there are lots of > non-corrosion proofing lurkers out there... > > -------- > Larry Portouw > 601XL Kit (H. Stab) > Atlanta, GA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21425#21425 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:16 AM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" You may find that the spray cans have a tendency to clog. Various fixes for clogging can be found in the archives. You may also want to consider buying chromate in quart cans. It can then be thinned with lacquer thinner and applied with a brush or rag. There's no spray mist to worry about if you do it that way, but you should still protect yourself with gloves since lacquer thinner attacks the kidneys. Bill > I'm pretty much sold on zinc chromate. I am aware of and prepared for its hazards. It comes in $5 spray cans and has been proven over time. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:27 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com My XL is my second kit. Previously I built one of Van's RV's. Van's recommended preparing the metal with Martin-Senour Twin Etch and then spraying with zinc chromate. I used that method on the RV and I am now using it on my Zodiac. I am using the Tempo rattle cans and I found the best price at SkyGeek.com. Carroll Jernigan XL wings do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:40 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? From: "Garrou, Douglas" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" AZ: As luck would have it, last week I was doing some work for a client and got a chance to chat at length with the head metallurgist at a major aluminum smelter (!). This guy lives, thinks, and breathes aluminum. His office was like a shrine to the stuff. Of course we got to chatting about airplane building. He said that unless you were constantly around the ocean or have some sort of a setup for dissimilar metal corrosion, 6061 just flat out doesn't need any additional corrosion protection. You will get a lot of other opinions on the web, but this guy was, after all.... the head metallurgist at an aluminum smelter. With your airplane in the desert, I suspect we'll all be long dead and gone before it corrodes. Our project will be flying somewhat near the ocean, and occasionally over the ocean. We're putting zinc chromate (that's it, just sprayed on zinc chromate) on mating surfaces. Given the properties of 6061, I suspect even that's overkill. Cheers Doug Garrou Project 801 www.garrou.com -----Original Message----- Time: 10:09:39 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? From: "AZFlyer" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" Builders, Seems to me that using 6061-T6 would not require Zinc-Chromate, or ? with it's built in corrosion resistance. Any opinions...? I live in the desert, not near salt-water... maybe visit the ocean occasionally, but plane won't sit there... and no floats planned... Mike ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:58 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I would prime between sufaces too...Get some "self etching primer" from NAPA in rattle cans (I find it is more durable and easier to live than ZC) Its really very little inconvenience compared to the overall. Frank HDS 400 hours...For sale...There I've said it...Boo hoo...:( Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:56 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland --> AZFlyer wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" > >Builders, > >Seems to me that using 6061-T6 would not require Zinc-Chromate, or ? with it's built in corrosion resistance. Any opinions...? I live in the desert, not near salt-water... maybe visit the ocean occasionally, but plane won't sit there... and no floats planned... > >Mike > >-------- >Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com >601 XL, 3300 > > > Mike, It's still a good idea to put a light coat of Zinc-Chromate between surfaces that are riveted together and on bottom surfaces that might collect moisture. The air, moisture or rain that would collect in these areas might just be contaminated enough to cause you some corrosion. It doesn't require much effort and so long as you use a 3M-6001 respirator or equal, you'll do no harm to yourself or anyone else. The person you sell your plane to might just live where corrosion is a factor in his environment. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:03 AM PST US From: "Kelly Meiste" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kelly Meiste" He said that unless you were constantly around the ocean or have some sort of a setup for dissimilar metal corrosion, 6061 just flat out doesn't need any additional corrosion protection. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I'd suggest asking him about industrial pollutants from cities and factories, acid rain , and chemicals blowing in the wind from farm pesticides and fertilizers. Also if you live in the northern US the DOT spreads tons of salt on roads every winter, then we walk in it getting it on our feet, climb into our pride & joy & go for a flight. Kelly Meiste 601 HD (zinc chromated and hanger 1,000 miles from the ocean) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:53 AM PST US From: Bill Mileski Subject: Zenith-List: brake fluid color change? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Mileski Hi folks, I noticed something weird with my brake fluid -- in the lower foot or so of nylon tubing, all the way into the calipers, the fluid color has changed to pretty much clear (maybe very slightly pink), whereas the fluid in the rest of the visible tubing remains the usual red (5606 fluid). Aircraft has been indoors. The transition is a sharp line. Has anyone else ever had this happen? I'll flush and bleed with new fluid unless someone thinks this is not a sign that I need new fluid. Plane hasn't been in service yet, but fluid is at least two years old. Bill Mileski 701 rec'd airworthiness last week, now working on MY airworthiness ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:22 AM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: brake fluid color change? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Bill I'm using the Automatic Transmission Fluid in mine. It's a red color, but in the portion of the line that is exposed to light it has went clear. I suspect the coloring is added to the fluid partially for identification purposes as petroleum products are not naturally red. I also believe that the coloring is affected by light and will dissipate, and did so in mine fairly quickly. I've put over 70 hours on my airplane and the brakes work just fine even with the liquid being clear. .. Mike Sinclair Bill Mileski wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Mileski > > Hi folks, > > I noticed something weird with my brake fluid -- in the lower foot or > so of nylon tubing, all the way into the calipers, the fluid color > has changed to pretty much clear (maybe very slightly pink), whereas > the fluid in the rest of the visible tubing remains the usual red > (5606 fluid). Aircraft has been indoors. The transition is a sharp > line. Has anyone else ever had this happen? I'll flush and bleed with > new fluid unless someone thinks this is not a sign that I need new > fluid. Plane hasn't been in service yet, but fluid is at least two years old. > > Bill Mileski > 701 rec'd airworthiness last week, now working on MY airworthiness > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:55 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: brake fluid color change? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" I'd leave it alone. The dye that they use is probably not color fast in the presence of light. It just faded. My Kolb is the same way. Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:18 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" Mike, As long as the airplane always lives in the desert climate it would be no problem leaving out the Z-C. The problem comes when and if the airplane ever gets based in a different climate (if you were to sell it) and stays out in the weather. Water in skin lap joints can even corrode 6061-T6 over time. Jim Hoak 601HD 503 hrs do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "AZFlyer" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" > > Builders, > > Seems to me that using 6061-T6 would not require Zinc-Chromate, or ? with > it's built in corrosion resistance. Any opinions...? I live in the > desert, not near salt-water... maybe visit the ocean occasionally, but > plane won't sit there... and no floats planned... > > Mike > > -------- > Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com > 601 XL, 3300 > > Remember: the second mouse gets the cheese! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21260#21260 > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:10 AM PST US From: Bill Mileski Subject: Zenith-List: Re: brake fluid color change? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Mileski Mike and Aaron, thanks for the advice, I will leave it alone. Always a relief to take something off of the "to do" list. Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:04 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" RVs use 2024 Alclad aluminum don't they. Different metal than 6061-T6 (silicone throughout not clad). Jim Hoak do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com > > My XL is my second kit. Previously I built one of Van's RV's. Van's > recommended preparing the metal with Martin-Senour Twin Etch and then > spraying with > zinc chromate. > I used that method on the RV and I am now using it on my Zodiac. I am > using > the Tempo rattle cans and I found the best price at SkyGeek.com. > Carroll Jernigan > XL wings > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:22 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate --> Zenith-List message posted by: Some questions come to mind regarding the current anti-corrosion thread: First, how much trouble, expense and weight would be invoved in spraying all the inner surfaces of the plane with Zinc Oxide self-etching primer from rattle cans as the construction progresses? We're talking about a light coat, not a thick coat like spraying the color coat on the outside surface. Zinc Oxide is much friendlier to the user even if it is not the gold standard like Zinc Chromate. Second, even if you live and fly only in the desert and never park the plane near farm property where corrosive fertilizers abound, or near salt water, or industrial areas that experince acid rain, wouldn't it be nice to know that if and when you sell the plane or move it to another location that you had the problem taken care of in advance? Even if 6061-T6 is corrosion resistant, I recall somebody on the list recently having fits with corrosion on 6061-T6 and 2024-T3 or T4 Alclad materials that had been stored damp for a few months or so. Even in the desert dew can form. If moisture can condense on exposed surfaces with the right temperature changes, why isn't there enough moisture to condense inside the plane? If you are going to use carb heat to avoid ice in the carb, why isn't that atmospheric moisture a concern regarding corrosion inside the plane? IMHO, if you don't want to do any anti-corrosion treatment or want to do only limited treatment, that's fine. Still it doesn't seem like too much expense, weight, or bother to prime the inside surfaces with Zinc Oxide rattle cans. Ed Moody II Rayne LA 601XL waiting on kit Do Not Archive Do Not Bite My Head Off Either ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate From: "messydeer" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" Thanks again, folks :-) That person who had corrosion problem recently with sheets stored outside was me. That's partly why I'm going down the alodine/chromate route. Here's what I've learned about 2 different brands of spray zinc chromate: Tempo Marine or Aviation Zinc Chromate Talked with Tempo this morning, who forwarded me to Valspar 800-431-5928, makers of the product. Aviation and marine labels are the same product, just different labels. Shelf life is 2 years. I don't know much about spraying, so asked about coverage and application. 2 coats are recommended. Each coat consists of a vertical series and a horizontal series of strokes. 12-14 square feet coverage per can, I think with 2 coats. Your 'hand shadow' should be visible after each coat and with no silver color showing through. I'm not sure exactly what a 'hand shadow' means, but evidently you won't see one if it's too thin? MSDS reports 10-15% zinc chromate. Orr-lac zinc chromate Made by Spray Products Corporation, 800-543-7710. MSDS shows 10.1% zinc chromate. My Take Orr-lac is a dollar or so cheaper per can than Tempo. They both meet some government spec of TT-P-1757A Type II. When I talked with Orr-lac, they transferred me to a chemist, who didn't know coverage rates or what percent zinc chromate there product was. He was to fax that info but it hasn't arrive yet. I think he is an example of what happens if you never use a respirator mask around toxic chemicals. On the contrary, the Tempo lady had all this info at the tip of her tongue. And more people use Tempo. So I think I'll go with them. Best price online for either of them is Skygeek.com, ~$5 for Tempo. They were the ones that ended up sending me the msds for Orr-lac. They also seem to have a fixed shipping cost of $5 per order, so I may order 10 cans later, after I experiment with the 2 brands. Cheers! -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21571#21571 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:59 PM PST US From: "Bill+Rose" Cc: "zenith list" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" Caleb- There has been a lot of controversy on the Matronics list re: a fatal accident in an XL where the wings folded recently. The NTSB still hasn't made a determination; hopefully it will be something as simple (And deadly) as a loose or missing spar bolt. In the meantime, speculation runs rampant. From my personal viewpoint, I'm not so much worried about the integrety of CH's design, but the little deviations from perfection all builders have made. The way I figure it, if my wings fail on the ground, I'm out 6-9 months work. If they fail in the air, I'm out eternity. Many listers wonder why Zenith hasn't addressed the problem, but I know from experience dealing with EAA tech counseling they simply can't keep up with builder's lists for time considerations. I think it would greatly increase Zenith's stock in good will to respond to the list as a whole. I've taken the liberty to cc the Matronics Zenith Builders website. Out of curiosity, what procedure do some Europeans use to perform their (From what I gather) manditory static tests? Thank you for this response, and any response to the list. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caleb Gebhardt" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: RE: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. > Hi Bill, > We don't recommend that you statically test your wings. It's a very > difficult task, and would require a very large amount of weight. By trying > to test your wings, you are very likely to damage the skin, because you > won't be able to distribute the load properly as the air will when you are > flying. This is due to the load not being evenly distributed in either the > chord wise, or span wise directions. Load testing is very difficult to do > properly and isn't advised. Just out of curiosity, why do you want to > statically test your wings? > > Caleb Gebhardt > Zenith Aircraft Co. > (573) 581-9000 > caleb@zenithair.com > > Technical Support Disclaimer: While we strive to ensure that the > advice/information provided through our support is correct, Zenith > Aircraft > Company does not accept any responsibility for errors or omissions. Any > advise or information that Zenith Aircraft Company gives you via any form > of > communication is not a guarantee that it will correct your problem. It is > only offered as assistance to you. Zenith Aircraft Company will not be > held > responsible for any loss or damage as a result of our advise or > information > supplied. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: bill naumuk [mailto:naumuk@alltel.net] > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:36 AM > To: info@zenithair.com > Subject: TECH SUPPORT - Zenith Aircraft Co. > > Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by bill > naumuk > (naumuk@alltel.net) on Saturday, March 11, 2006 at 06:35:48 > > realname: bill naumuk > > email: naumuk@alltel.net > > Message: Request Additional Info, Nick- > Are there any Zenith parameters for conducting a static wing test? Thanks. > > Model: ZODIAC CH 601, 4915 > > > REMOTE_ADDR: 67.140.21.24 > HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1) > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:17 PM PST US From: "Bill+Rose" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" All- Now, to throw a 4' monkey wrench in. I've had to do some scratch building, and some of my T-6 sheet is "Clad" (It came from Wick's), and some is "Bare" (It came from ACS). Wick's sheet comes with a plastic sheet on one side, ACS with nothing. Is this the "Bare" they're refering to, or does it refer to some corrosion treatment applied during manufacture? I'm using zinc oxide on all mating components, but is there an undue danger of corrosion on the free spans? Anyone been there, done that? I don't live in a high corrosion risk area. Bill > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21425#21425 > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Tornado Damage at Bentonville Airport - 3/12/2006 From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" Bad news here in Bentonville, AR. A tornado came through last night about 10pm and hit the airport hard. I live about 10 miles north and got a good blanket of hail but that's it. The neighborhood around the airport got quite a bit of damage. Click on the link below to see pictures of the damage. A lot of hard work was destroyed last night. http://www.eaa732.org/eaa_display_gallery.asp?token=55&f=t&n=Tornado%20D amage%20at%20Bentonville%20Airport%20-%203/12/2006 John Hines www.johnsplane.com John Hines Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Direct: 479-878-2449 Mobile: 479-366-4783 Phone: 479-636-4838 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:59 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" Clad aluminum has a thin layer of pure aluminum applied to the alloy sheet during the rolling process. Bare means that there is no such protection. Aluminum sheet stock may be clad on one side or both. If it is clad one side, that side should be on the outer surface of the airplane. George Swinford Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill+Rose" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" > > > All- > Now, to throw a 4' monkey wrench in. > I've had to do some scratch building, and some of my T-6 sheet is "Clad" > (It came from Wick's), and some is "Bare" (It came from ACS). Wick's sheet > comes with a plastic sheet on one side, ACS with nothing. Is this the "Bare" > they're refering to, or does it refer to some corrosion treatment applied > during manufacture? > I'm using zinc oxide on all mating components, but is there an undue > danger of corrosion on the free spans? Anyone been there, done that? > I don't live in a high corrosion risk area. > > > Bill > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21425#21425 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:59 PM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: Zenith-List: N601MX Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" Today, my 601XL/Corvair flew for the first time! As many of you know, I took my completed airframe and engine down to William Wynne's hangar in November (see details on Flycorvair.com, look for Corvair College #9) in the back of a rented truck. After that, I went down to their hangar several times to work on it. William and Gus were excellent tutors on what to do (and not to do). My last trip down started on Wednesday night, and the DAR came on Friday and signed it off. What a great feeling! We finished up a few last things and did the taxi testing on Saturday. Tonight, Gus took it up for a few laps around the pattern and brought the plane in for a perfect landing just before dark. It flew hands-off. The elevator trim leaves a lot to be desired, since it is the early version that doesn't have very much surface area. Many thanks to William Wynne for developing a great engine package. Many thanks go Gus Warren for a lot of hard work and for doing the first flight. Many thanks to Kevin Fahy for showing me how to build a perfect Corvair engine. Many thanks to Grace Ellen for making it all come together. Phil Maxson N601MX - 0.5 hours See it at Sun-n-Fun at the Zenith booth. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:15 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N601MX Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Lindstrom Congratulations, Phil! I can't wait to see Mike Xray in completed form at Sun 'n' Fun, and I'll bet you can't, either. Anything you wish to pass along for 42KP, next in line at William's place? I guess I better jump and apply for registration, now that the decks have been cleared! Congrats again - pictures! We want pictures!! Rick Lindstrom Phil Maxson wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" > >Today, my 601XL/Corvair flew for the first time! > >As many of you know, I took my completed airframe and engine down to William >Wynne's hangar in November (see details on Flycorvair.com, look for Corvair >College #9) in the back of a rented truck. After that, I went down to their >hangar several times to work on it. William and Gus were excellent tutors >on what to do (and not to do). My last trip down started on Wednesday >night, and the DAR came on Friday and signed it off. What a great feeling! >We finished up a few last things and did the taxi testing on Saturday. > >Tonight, Gus took it up for a few laps around the pattern and brought the >plane in for a perfect landing just before dark. It flew hands-off. The >elevator trim leaves a lot to be desired, since it is the early version that >doesn't have very much surface area. > >Many thanks to William Wynne for developing a great engine package. >Many thanks go Gus Warren for a lot of hard work and for doing the first >flight. >Many thanks to Kevin Fahy for showing me how to build a perfect Corvair >engine. >Many thanks to Grace Ellen for making it all come together. > >Phil Maxson >N601MX - 0.5 hours >See it at Sun-n-Fun at the Zenith booth. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:18 PM PST US From: Mike Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N601MX Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike > Today, my 601XL/Corvair flew for the first time! Phil --- MEGA-congrats! Now I'm really jealous. :) Look forward to hearing future flight reports. Mike Fortunato 601XL do not archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:32 PM PST US From: "Bill+Rose" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" George- Thanks. My apologies for not adding.. Do Not Achive. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill+Rose" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" > > > All- > Now, to throw a 4' monkey wrench in. > I've had to do some scratch building, and some of my T-6 sheet is > "Clad" > (It came from Wick's), and some is "Bare" (It came from ACS). Wick's sheet > comes with a plastic sheet on one side, ACS with nothing. Is this the > "Bare" > they're refering to, or does it refer to some corrosion treatment applied > during manufacture? > I'm using zinc oxide on all mating components, but is there an undue > danger of corrosion on the free spans? Anyone been there, done that? > I don't live in a high corrosion risk area. > > > Bill >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21425#21425 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:38 PM PST US From: "Bill+Rose" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N601MX Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" Phil- Good job! Let us all know when you have some numbers. Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:48 PM PST US From: "Charles Kyle" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Elevator twist? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Kyle" Hello, Despite my best efforts, I seem to have built some twist into the horizontal stabilizer of my 701. When getting ready to attach the elevator hinge plates, I checked the level of the stab and it appears to be off. Over the 2220 mm length, there is about 7 mm of twist. That is, with the left end level and the right end trailing edge at the same height, the right hand front is raised about 7 mm. I calculated a 0.34 percent twist and think this is probably acceptable, but really don't know. I assume that with all rivet holes drilled and most riveted, it's pretty much locked into this configuration. Any insights? Thanks. Chuck Kyle ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:29 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Elevator twist? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Charles, I can only speak from my Radio Control experience. In that arena Anything Will Fly. I suspect your small amount of twist will be completely unnoticeable in flight. Perhaps a small amount of roll trim will be needed for complete hands-off level flight. If that is the worst problem you have with your new plane than all I can say is "Congratulations on a job well done." Paul XL wings Over the 2220 mm length, there is about 7 mm of twist. >Chuck Kyle > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:49 PM PST US From: "Steve Hulland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tornado Damage at Bentonville Airport - 3/12/2006 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Hulland" John, I really feel for all of you guys and gals. What a blow to aviation. I only hope that everyone can find a way to pick up the pieces and rebuild. Do No Archive -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 701, Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:09 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Builder Free Lunch --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" This TRULY is a FREE LUNCH!! OK Dinner!! If youre a Zenith Owner or builder Just click on the link at www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com and send me an E-Mail so I know how many to buy for. Reminder, For all of you attending Sun-N-Fun Please come out to the 2nd Annual Webmasters BBQ for owners and Builders of Zenith Aircraft. This years event is being held on Thursday April 6th once again in the campgrounds. Last years event saw a total of 125 people, hopefully this year we will have as good or better showing. There is no sign up sheet this year or name tags but to get an Idea I would like everyone planning to attend to send me an E-Mail. At moderator@ch601.org or moderator@ch701.com or hit reply and add a "do not archive" This way I can purchase dogs and burgers accordingly Presently I have 40 people signed up, but we about 2/3rds short from last years event. There is no cost as it is coming out of my pocket and from Donations. Last year we had donations of food and somebody brought a great flat of Strawberries, I'm glad to report that Jabiru USA has once again generously donated to our event. Rick Roberts has once again signed up his guys to handle the Grills. The BBQ starts at 5 pm just after the show and runs till 8pm when the trolleys stop running. The location will be posted in the Zenith booth or just ask any member of the Zenith team. Builders, Owners or dreaming of a Zenith are all welcome. Remember this is your time to spend with others doing the same thing you are, also The whole Zenith Crew will be present just for you. There are no speeches just a great time sharing stories!!! Please send us an E-Mail we really don't want to run out of food or have to run out Thursday afternoon for more supplies just before the event. I look forward to meeting everyone. I could use a few desserts and salads if you care to bring something. Mark, David, Jon and Rick -- ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:52 PM PST US From: "Graham Kirby" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 Elevator twist? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" Chuck, You can probably fix it by drilling out the skin rivets, mounting it dead flat on the table - perhaps even with a hint of reverse twist, and re-riveting. It fixed a similar problem that I had on my rudder though I didn't really expect it to. I guess there is some play in the rivet holes. Alternatively you could redrill it to the next rivet size or just accept that you subconciously but deliberatly built in a cunning and clever torque compensation feature - assuming the prop spins the right way. Graham Kirby 601HD -