---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/15/06: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:31 AM - Re: fuel filters and such (Bryan Martin) 2. 03:32 AM - Re: hanger for rent, Houston, Tx (Rick R) 3. 07:41 AM - size matters in airplane construction (LarryMcFarland) 4. 07:41 AM - Re: fuel filters and such (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 5. 08:49 AM - Re: SIZE matters! (Zed Smith) 6. 08:51 AM - Re: size matters in airplane construction (Bill Howerton) 7. 09:42 AM - Re: size matters in airplane construction (Keith Ashcraft) 8. 11:18 AM - Re: fuel filters and such (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 9. 11:45 AM - Re: Re: SIZE matters! (Mike Sinclair) 10. 06:02 PM - Whitney Punch (Bill+Rose) 11. 10:17 PM - Re: fuel filters and such (Experienced members in the list) (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel filters and such From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I wouldn't put any filters ahead of the fuel pump. The fuel strainers in the tanks should keep out any particles large enough to interfere with the pump. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" > > For my fuel system on my XL I am looking at using the flexable fuel lines > from the wings to the fues. Then going with 1/4" Al 3003 tube to a filter > on each side. Then to the fuel selector, which is lowered close to the > floor by an extension rod from the selector. Then forward to the gasolator. > Then to the Facet pump. Then to the firewall. > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:11 AM PST US From: Rick R Subject: Re: Zenith-List: hanger for rent, Houston, Tx --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick R Also looking to rent a hanger in the Newnan or Peachtree City, GA area. (I'm on Mr laughlin's waiting list) to assemble my 701/B-52..... Do not archive Brett Hanley wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley Looking for another experimental aircraft to share my hanger with. Northwest Houston, just off FM1960 on 1/2 mile grass strip. Brett Rick Sharpsburg, GA. USA http://www.n701rr.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:45 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Zenith-List: size matters in airplane construction --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Hi guys, This very neat! [c-a] How to build an airplane Now if only you had a garage this big...... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3046542226114078023 > Didn't want any of you to miss this, but it might help your thoughts with handling and assembly. Larry McFarland - 601HDS Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:45 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: fuel filters and such From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I think more importantly you need to understand the principles of vapour lock, then decide how much risk you want to take. As vapour lock can stop your engine dead on take off on a hot day, my system is designed so that VL is an almost impossibility. Note that mogas will boil more easily than 100LL. The problem with this system is that it means your fuel pumps will be as close to the tanks as possible (assuming you have wing tanks only). This is the reason all cars these days have the pump back there. This system however means that each pump will suck from each tank which means the reserve really has to be held in each tank. The upside is that it is a delightfully simple system in that to switch tanks you simple turn the other pump on and this one off...if you see what I mean. You don't mention whether you have a mechanical pump or not...Personally I hate mechanical pumps (or electric pumps on the engine side of the firewall) because they both suck on the fuel and are in the hottest place on the airplane. Both prime reasons to cause VL. This is why "Proper" FI airplanes have the electric boost pump in the cabin down low to pressurise the inlet to the mech pump. So now you know that a pump that sucks on warm fuel is the big danger now you have to decide what you want to do knowing that "suck" and "hot" are bad. Now you do have some dihedral...You can put both electric pumps (assuming no mechanical pump) in the middle of the cabin and have a selector valve feeding the inlet from each tank. I strongly recommend you keep the lines feeding from the tanks to the inlet to the pump at 3/8's and preferably aluminium. (less pressure drop)...No other restrictions on the inlet side to the pumps if you can possibly avoid them. Tank strainers are OK but no other filters, not that they will cause you problems but they certainly could. I would personally avoid having the gascolator upstream of the pumps...if it devlops a leak it will likely such air into the pump and air lock it...which is almost as bad as VL. Gascolators work just fine on the discharge side of the facet fuel pumps. Do an archive search on this issue, thee is MUCH discussion on this one -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt & Jo Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: fuel filters and such --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" Hi folks, Want to poll the crowd. For my fuel system on my XL I am looking at using the flexable fuel lines from the wings to the fues. Then going with 1/4" Al 3003 tube to a filter on each side. Then to the fuel selector, which is lowered close to the floor by an extension rod from the selector. Then forward to the gasolator. Then to the Facet pump. Then to the firewall. What do you all think? Does anyone have opinions on fittings. Aluminum, Steel, or Brass? Any recommendations on filters? I may also put a fuel flow transmitter. Thinking of placing this between the gasolator and the pump? I appriciate your inputs Cheers Matt www.zodiacxl.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:16 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Re: SIZE matters! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Larry-- Made my morning! The "How to build an airplane" video is really good. Ran it twice, still didn't see the tail hook being installed. Looks like flying this dude might be a case where you DON'T just kick the tires and light the fires. Now if we can get rid of the Wright Amendment" Southwest Airlines can buy a bunch of these. Wonder if this movie is taboo at Boeing? Thanks again, Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:46 AM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: size matters in airplane construction --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" Now THAT was cool! [c-a] How to build an airplane Now if only you had a garage this big...... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3D-3046542226114078023 > Didn't want any of you to miss this, but it might help your thoughts with handling and assembly. Larry McFarland - 601HDS Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:21 AM PST US From: Keith Ashcraft Subject: Re: Zenith-List: size matters in airplane construction --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft All, I had also heard that since the hanger was so big, that they used CH701s to fly from one end to the other :-) Do Not Archive Keith ********************************************* LarryMcFarland wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > >Hi guys, > >This very neat! > > > > [c-a] How to build an airplane > > > >Now if only you had a garage this big...... > > >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3046542226114078023 >> > >Didn't want any of you to miss this, but it might help your >thoughts with handling and assembly. > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS >Do Not Archive > > > > > > > > > -- ************************************* *Keith Ashcraft* ITT Industries Advanced Engineering & Sciences 5009 Centennial Blvd. Colorado Springs, CO 80919 (719) 599-1787 -- work (719) 332-4364 -- cell keith.ashcraft@itt.com ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:07 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel filters and such --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Matt, I did much the same thing you are talking about on my XL. If you want to see them they were posted on 601.org under Bill's photos. Be happy to help in any way, Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:13 AM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: SIZE matters! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair FYI As a matter of fact, I did see this video (or one almost exactly like it) at Boeing last year before I retired. They do like to keep up on what the competition is doing. My guess is that the higher ups get to see even more definitive videos (and data) than the peons do. It's called industrial espionage and you don't want to let the other guys get too far ahead. Airbus people also probably see stuff that Boeing don't really want to let out. This video though wasn't really any more than was shown on a couple of the Discovery Channel shows. Mike Sinclair Do Not Archive > Wonder if this movie is taboo at Boeing? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:39 PM PST US From: "Bill+Rose" Subject: Zenith-List: Whitney Punch --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" All- Couldn't find a right angle drill with a head small enough to drill the nose rib L angles in the center wing, so I took a chance and bought a Harbor Freight Whitney punch for $18.95. Comes with 7 dies, including the all important 1/8, 5/32, and 3/16. Worked like a charm. If the Chinese ever get into homebuilding, there won't be any airspace left. They have all the tools! Bill ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:08 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: fuel filters and such (Experienced members in the list) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hello Matt and all the new member/builders of the list. I will try to make this mail short but with good advise. The list archives is a Trassure for all of us that build a ZAC (or any other) airplane. I have been in this list for a while, and have learn a lot, also have shared some of my experience over my aviation and homebuilt life. Here we can find advice from some real Experienced members (Some dont like to be named Experts:) this can make our building experience more easy and in some times could save our life. In the area of fuel pumps, Frank really knows what he is talking about, Pay atention of what he says. Thanks a lot to all the Experienced builders in this list(s). and enjoy this great (flame free :-) list and brotherhood. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S Flying from Chapala, Mexico Building a 601 XL. "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I think more importantly you need to understand the principles of vapour lock, then decide how much risk you want to take. As vapour lock can stop your engine dead on take off on a hot day, my system is designed so that VL is an almost impossibility. Note that mogas will boil more easily than 100LL. The problem with this system is that it means your fuel pumps will be as close to the tanks as possible (assuming you have wing tanks only). This is the reason all cars these days have the pump back there. This system however means that each pump will suck from each tank which means the reserve really has to be held in each tank. The upside is that it is a delightfully simple system in that to switch tanks you simple turn the other pump on and this one off...if you see what I mean. You don't mention whether you have a mechanical pump or not...Personally I hate mechanical pumps (or electric pumps on the engine side of the firewall) because they both suck on the fuel and are in the hottest place on the airplane. Both prime reasons to cause VL. This is why "Proper" FI airplanes have the electric boost pump in the cabin down low to pressurise the inlet to the mech pump. So now you know that a pump that sucks on warm fuel is the big danger now you have to decide what you want to do knowing that "suck" and "hot" are bad. Now you do have some dihedral...You can put both electric pumps (assuming no mechanical pump) in the middle of the cabin and have a selector valve feeding the inlet from each tank. I strongly recommend you keep the lines feeding from the tanks to the inlet to the pump at 3/8's and preferably aluminium. (less pressure drop)...No other restrictions on the inlet side to the pumps if you can possibly avoid them. Tank strainers are OK but no other filters, not that they will cause you problems but they certainly could. I would personally avoid having the gascolator upstream of the pumps...if it devlops a leak it will likely such air into the pump and air lock it...which is almost as bad as VL. Gascolators work just fine on the discharge side of the facet fuel pumps. Do an archive search on this issue, thee is MUCH discussion on this one -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt & Jo Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: fuel filters and such --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" Hi folks, Want to poll the crowd. For my fuel system on my XL I am looking at using the flexable fuel lines from the wings to the fues. Then going with 1/4" Al 3003 tube to a filter on each side. Then to the fuel selector, which is lowered close to the floor by an extension rod from the selector. Then forward to the gasolator. Then to the Facet pump. Then to the firewall. What do you all think? Does anyone have opinions on fittings. Aluminum, Steel, or Brass? Any recommendations on filters? I may also put a fuel flow transmitter. Thinking of placing this between the gasolator and the pump? I appriciate your inputs Cheers Matt www.zodiacxl.com --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.