---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/19/06: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:14 AM - Re: 701 Structural differences (Jari Kaija) 2. 05:41 AM - Re: Zenith pre-drilled hole problem. (Aaron Gustafson) 3. 07:09 AM - Re: Fly-in (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 4. 07:34 AM - MicroAir antenna (Bob Miller) 5. 08:19 AM - Re: There is Mixture Control on the Rotax 912ULS (Leo Gates) 6. 08:34 AM - Re: Zenith pre-drilled hole problem. (Bill+Rose) 7. 10:07 AM - Re: Corvair Engine (was Cable Ties) (Edward Moody II) 8. 10:33 AM - Offline (zodierocket@hsfx.ca) 9. 01:08 PM - Priming Metal Parts for my CH701 (Jeffrey A Beachy) 10. 01:21 PM - Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL (AndrewC) 11. 01:57 PM - Re: New Jabiru 3300 EnginesNew Jabiru 3300 Engines (Chuck & Lana Maggart) 12. 02:39 PM - Re: New Jabiru 3300 EnginesNew Jabiru 3300 Engines (Pete Krotje) 13. 04:35 PM - Re: Corvair Engine (was Cable Ties) (Gary Gower) 14. 06:01 PM - Re: MicroAir antenna (Bryan Martin) 15. 07:32 PM - Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL (David X) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:26 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Structural differences --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > Guess I'm missing something here. You didn't. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:07 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith pre-drilled hole problem. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" Yea!! for the continuing education of kit builders! Scratch builders avoid all this but lack one important thing. SOMEONE TO PASS THE BUCK TO! Just a little humor for a Sunday morning. Aaron do not archive Original message > I recently had to scrap an entire wing on my XL. > My realization after a while is that the holes are > drilled using perfect assumptions about how the ribs will be located > on the spar, but as a human being I didn't locate the ribs perfectly > so the "Perfect" predrilled holes in the skin didn't match my wing > skeleton. > I am sure I can drill the holes in a blank skin where they should be to > match my > wing skeleton. > One other think I learned in this whole fiasco is that ZAC doesn't > make the spars that go in the XL kit - Zenair does. I don't know how > far this practice goes, but I suspect Zenair (a Canadian company) > makes all the spars for all the Zenith kits. > > but I am having fun building more wings without any reference to the > instructions. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:19 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fly-in --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Gregg, sorry you were not there. We had hundreds of planes and everyone was looking for you !!! Just kidding. No, we all agreed that Winder is a nice strip and the Spitfire Cafe does produce an excellent $ 100. hamburger. Hope your eye gets better soon. You can probably fly better than most of us even with only one, Best regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:07 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: MicroAir antenna --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" My quarter-wave antenna has delrin bushings to insulate the antenna from the airframe, and Aeroelectric Connection states the antenna should be insulated from the airframe. Yet, the manual for my MicroAir 760 radio says "For metal skin aircraft....ensure that the antenna base and the coax shield are firmly grounded to the skin of the aircraft. Ensure that any anti-corrosion product, which may be used to seal the exterior surface, does not isolate the antenna base from the airframe." Wouldn't this be the same as grounding the shield wire to the antenna? How have y'all done it? See you at Sun'nFun. -- Bob Miller 601HD N722Z Charlottesville, Virginia ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:06 AM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: There is Mixture Control on the Rotax 912ULS --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates My 912UL (Uncertified) bought in 1997 has altitude compensating Bing carbs. Leo Gates N601Z Brett Hanley wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley > >There is mixture control on the Rotax 912 series >engines. This being the second century of flight they >use automatic altitude compensating carbs. Wow, what >a novel idea. Only the certified engines are protected >from technological advancement. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:53 AM PST US From: "Bill+Rose" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith pre-drilled hole problem. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Gustafson" Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:39 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith pre-drilled hole problem. All- True to Murphy's law, the problem didn't show up until the LAST TWO HOLES I had to drill in the spar. 3 out of the 4 sets of A6 pilot holes were located well enough to be usable, but the last two were just out in the ozones. Considering the correct relationship of all the ribs to one another and the spar, there is absolutely no way I made a mistake. Luckily, having two extra holes to fill with A6s isn't a show stopper. Zenith would probably replace the spar, but look at all the work I'd have to redo. What grates on me most is if you spend over $1000.00 on anything, you expect it to be usable without having to rework it. If a person bought a $100 wheel for his car and he had to redrill the hole pattern so it would fit over the studs, he'd scream bloody murder. Having bought one of the last HDS kits, I just can't shake the feeling that Zenith was concentrating on the XL and someone buying an older model was just an annoyance. As far as Can-Zac manufacturing the spars, so what? This looks like a production fixturing problem to me. Perhaps the wrong fixture for the aircraft variation was used, or the fixture moved (Most likely the latter). You can speculate forever, or you can move on. Bought the new Homebuilt Help DVD someone recommended on building a Zenith from scratch. Kind of interesting to find out how to do something after you've already done it. Would have saved me some time I spent experimenting to come up with a work procedure. Worth $39. My Zenith rivet gun is on it's last legs, so I bought 5/32 and 7/32 carbide ball mills and the cheapest Harbor Freight rivet gun and had at it. You only need the 7/32 (About $11 US) and a drill press. The Harbor Freight gun is better than the Zenith for pulling A5s, but not A4 or A6. Almost bought a top of the line Master Mechanic puller ($20 US) but didn't know how milling the anvils would turn out and didn't want to trash a perfectly good tool. Will get one after the Zenith puller finally dies. (Holes between the handles are worn elliptical). Bill > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:01 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair Engine (was Cable Ties) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" Man, am I ever sorry that I opened a can of worms about the Corvair engine. In the future, I will pass on making any remark that might set off a storm of defense of choice. Sincere apologies, Ed Moody II Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Offline From: zodierocket@hsfx.ca --> Zenith-List message posted by: zodierocket@hsfx.ca Hi Guys, for those who sent mail to me, they have been recieved on my server but as of yet due to server problems I have not been able to read anything. Keep the BBQ registrations comming if you plan to attend. For those of you waiting for a reply from me, I hope to be back online by Wed. Thanks Mark Townsend do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Priming Metal Parts for my CH701 From: Jeffrey A Beachy --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey A Beachy For aluminum parts, I have been using Metal Prep No. 79 followed by Zinc Chromate from aerosol cans. Now I have started building my fuselage and just completed the firewall, which is my first exposure to steel. Do I treat the firewall and the 4130 steel tubes the same way as the aluminum? I had someone advise me to powdercoat the metal parts, but the archives seem to suggest otherwise. Also, with the 4130 steel tubes, I presume I need to rust proof both the inside and the outside? What about around the drilled holes? Prime only after drilling is completed? I am certainly learning a lot from building my first airplane and have greatly appreciated the information from this list. Thanks in advance! Jeff Beachy ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:01 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL From: "AndrewC" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AndrewC" Thanks again for all the postings on this topic. They were all very helpful and I've now finished the test schedule and the problem is now almost gone (or at least within acceptable limits). It looks as though the source of the problem is that my right wing is generating slightly more lift than the left one. There are two possible cuplrits: one flap appears to be a couple of millimetres lower than the other (no guesses for which side) and there may be a slight twist in the wing but I'll be checking that shortly with my digital protractor at each rib and comparing the same points on each wing. Wing incidence seems to be okay otherwise. Lubrication merely helped the ailerons find their balance; right aileron naturally falls, presumably the weight of the trim servo etc on that aileron. In flight the forces were still the same though so at least it was aerodynamic and we've solved it by adjusting the turnbuckles so both ailerons are equal to the level of the flaps. The plans show the flaps should protrude above the airflow by around 3mm, so that's where the ailerons are now with stick centred and the forces are much reduced. Also the aileron trim is now back towards the middle in level flight too. The rudder pedal rods will also be adjusted a couple of turns to give a little bit left rudder when pedals are equal - the ball wasn't quite centred in straight and level flight. Performance figures are a little on the disappointing side for me though. I had hoped to be within 10 knots of the oft quoted cruise speed of 120 knots. No such luck. 75% cruise at 5000rpm on the Rotax 912ULS gives around 95 knots around 1000feet. TAS at 5000 feet with more power came out at around 110 knots. I've no intention of flying at max continuous, as I like my engine, so looks like I'll have to settle for 100 knot 80% cruise. At least she flies... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=22675#22675 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:51 PM PST US From: "Chuck & Lana Maggart" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Jabiru 3300 EnginesNew Jabiru 3300 Engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck & Lana Maggart" Pete, can the new hydraulic lifters be retrofitted to the earlier engines with manual lifters? Chuck Maggart, XL nearly ready to install Jabiru engine ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:20 PM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New Jabiru 3300 EnginesNew Jabiru 3300 Engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" Sorry Chuck, It is not possible to retrofit the hydraulic lifters to older engines. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck & Lana Maggart Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Jabiru 3300 EnginesNew Jabiru 3300 Engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck & Lana Maggart" Pete, can the new hydraulic lifters be retrofitted to the earlier engines with manual lifters? Chuck Maggart, XL nearly ready to install Jabiru engine ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:21 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair Engine (was Cable Ties) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Sorry Paul, have to say this, no offense intended. Not looking at the "idiot" light of the generator in time, dose not makes a "bad" engine. Scanning the instruments (and knowing what is wrong) is important to save an engine, in any car or airplane. Hope you scan your instruments when you fly, without that, even a Rolls Royce Merlin Engine will blow :-) What brand of car do you advise that will allow driving without the fan belt? :-) :-) (now water pump belt, with the use of electric fans) Saludos Gary Gower Paul Mulwitz wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Perhaps I am a little bit confused by this whole issue. I thought the Corvair engines were all manufactured over 40 years ago. I also know the only one I ever drove in a car burned up when the fan belt broke at an Interstate Toll Booth. Lately, it seems like the crank shafts on these engines have been developing cracks. So, how is it that these engines are chosen for reliability/longevity? What engine are they superior to in this quality? Paul XL wings >I think many builders have chosen the Corvair for reliability/longevity, >with the econony part just being a nice bonus reward for rolling their own. > >Do not archive. --------------------------------- Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MicroAir antenna From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin A quarter wave whip antenna needs a good ground plane to operate effectively. The shield conductor on a quarter wave whip antenna must be grounded at both ends, on the antenna end it must be grounded to a good ground plane. Most manufactured antennas have a metal base that the outer shell of the antenna connector is attatched to. In order to ensure that the shield is grounded, this metal base must be grounded. The actual radiating element inside the antenna assembly is connected to the center conductor of the antenna cable and isolated from the shell. The radiating element must not be grounded. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" > > My quarter-wave antenna has delrin bushings to insulate the antenna > from the airframe, and Aeroelectric Connection states the antenna > should be insulated from the airframe. > > Yet, the manual for my MicroAir 760 radio says "For metal skin > aircraft....ensure that the antenna base and the coax shield are > firmly grounded to the skin of the aircraft. Ensure that any > anti-corrosion product, which may be used to seal the exterior > surface, does not isolate the antenna base from the airframe." > > Wouldn't this be the same as grounding the shield wire to the antenna? > > How have y'all done it? > > See you at Sun'nFun. > > -- > Bob Miller > 601HD N722Z > Charlottesville, Virginia > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:11 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL From: "David X" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David X" I have a woodcomp 3-blade on my 912USL, I set the pitch to 17 degrees to top out at about 130 MPH. 15 degrees yields 115 MPG. 13 degrees yields best climb, less p-factor tendancy, but maxes out at about 100 MPH. I also noticed a tendency for the aircraft to turn left excessively. I thought it was my ailerons or a heavy wing, but turns out that it's my fat ass. Try flying with left tank near empty, right tank near full. Maybe it won't help, but it's easy enough to try. -------- Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=22764#22764