---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/21/06: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:14 AM - First Flight, 601 XL, N140BB (Bill Bartlett) 2. 05:39 AM - Re: First Flight, 601 XL, N140BB (Beckman, Rick) 3. 06:05 AM - Re: Aileron stiffness (Aaron Gustafson) 4. 06:32 AM - Re: First Flight, 601 XL, N140BB (n801bh@netzero.com) 5. 06:59 AM - Re: Re: Aileron stiffness (Jim Hoak) 6. 09:03 AM - Re: Cable ties to anchor wires to ribs? (steveadams) 7. 12:51 PM - Rivets (LHusky@aol.com) 8. 01:13 PM - Re: Rivets (kevinbonds) 9. 01:48 PM - Re: Rivets (Bob Unternaehrer) 10. 02:23 PM - Re: Rivets (Robin Bellach) 11. 02:24 PM - XL Center armrest (Tim Juhl) 12. 02:46 PM - Re: Rivets (kevinbonds) 13. 02:48 PM - Re: Rivets (LHusky@aol.com) 14. 03:04 PM - Re: Rivets (Bob Unternaehrer) 15. 03:08 PM - Re: XL Center armrest (Bill Howerton) 16. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: XL Center armrest () 17. 05:17 PM - Re: Rivets (kevinbonds) 18. 05:40 PM - Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Tim Juhl) 19. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL (Phil Maxson) 20. 09:02 PM - Re: First Flight, 601 XL, N140BB (Ron Lendon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:10 AM PST US From: "Bill Bartlett" Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight, 601 XL, N140BB --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett" It is not a coincidence that Spring is known as the birth of new things. I took my XL on its first flight today. It flew true and steady with my Jabiru 3300A engine (I love that engine). More to come as I continue Phase I testing. Bill Bartlett, Hanger: Boerne Stage Airfield, approx. 8 miles northwest of San Antonio, Texas N140BB, Zenith Zodiac 601 XL: Tri-Gear; Jabiru 3300A; Sensench 51x64; Dual Sticks; Wing Lockers; Aux. Fuel Tanks; All Electric: Blue Mountain Lite (PFD); Audio Panel; Garmin SL-30 and Icom A200 Radios; Reddish Stall Warning System. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:31 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight, 601 XL, N140BB From: "Beckman, Rick" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" It is not a coincidence that Spring is known as the birth of new things. I took my XL on its first flight today. It flew true and steady with my Jabiru 3300A engine (I love that engine). More to come as I continue Phase I testing. CONGRATULATIONS, Bill!!!!!!! Must feel GOOOOOOD!!! Do let us know more later!! Rick Beckman ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:36 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" I'm at the point of building my right wing (HD) and had planned to put some kind of aileron trim in the left, but from the recent posts I might just put in on the right side. There's nothing in my plans about aileron trim, so my question is, What type (internal or external) and how large seams to be proven good by those already flying? Aaron do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:47 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight, 601 XL, N140BB --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" It is not a coincidence that Spring is known as the birth of new things. I took my XL on its first flight today. It flew true and steady with my Jabiru 3300A engine (I love that engine). More to come as I continue Phase I testing. Bill Bartlett, ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Congrats to you................................ do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com It is not a coincidence that Spring is known as the birth of new things. I took my XL on its first flight today. It flew true and steady with my Jabiru 3300A engine (I love that engine). More to come as I continue Phase I testing. Bill Bartlett, ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Congrats to you................................ do not archive BenHaas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:36 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" Aaron, I have a nine year old 601HD with 505 hrs on it. I put a MAC trim tab on my right aileron while building. I use it all the time. I don't have wing fuel tanks so it's just a matter of having someone in the passenger seat or not. As for size, I don't have the dimensions here and the airplne is fifty miles away so I'll guestimate the size. ( I got the dimensions by measuring the tab Chris Heintz had on his personal airplane about 11 years ago) I estimate the tab (added onto the trailing edge - not built into the aileron trailing edge) to be about 350mm long and about 55 to 60mm wide. I used a closed loop type hinge with a steel hinge pin. It is patterened after the one on the elevator as supplied by ZAC. The trim actuater is mounted inside the aileron itself. I asked Chris about aileron balance doing it this way. He said it would be no problem and it hasn't been a problem. Works great. Jim Hoak do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Gustafson" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:03 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" > > > I'm at the point of building my right wing (HD) and had planned to put > some > kind of aileron trim in the left, but from the recent posts I might just > put > in on the right side. There's nothing in my plans about aileron trim, so > my > question is, What type (internal or external) and how large seams to be > proven good by those already flying? > Aaron do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:19 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cable ties to anchor wires to ribs? From: "steveadams" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" Another simple method that is a little difficult to describe, but works well and is very quick. Drill a small hole as Frank suggested. Put a large cable tie through the hole. Cut about 10 mm of plastic tubing (don't slit it) and slide both ends of the cable tieth. Then put the cable tie around the wires and cinch it down. This effectively holds the wires in place, with about an 8mm standoff created by the piece of plastic tubing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23162#23162 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:51:21 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: LHusky@aol.com I ordered my first 1,000 rivets from Zenith. I see that Aircraft Spruce also has the same rivet, with the same Avdel part number for half the cost of Zenith. Has anyone ordered these rivets to see if they are the same. Every detail of them seems to be the same. Thank you for the information Larry Husky Completing tail section this week ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:01 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Larry Check the archives for the complex history of this topic. Basically you need to be certain that your batch has been tested. Do this yourself or let Zenith do it. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LHusky@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 2:45 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: LHusky@aol.com I ordered my first 1,000 rivets from Zenith. I see that Aircraft Spruce also has the same rivet, with the same Avdel part number for half the cost of Zenith. Has anyone ordered these rivets to see if they are the same. Every detail of them seems to be the same. Thank you for the information Larry Husky Completing tail section this week ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:46 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" Tested for WHAT? Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevinbonds" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivets > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > > Larry > > Check the archives for the complex history of this topic. Basically you need > to be certain that your batch has been tested. Do this yourself or let > Zenith do it. > > Kevin Bonds > > Nashville TN > > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > > Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LHusky@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 2:45 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LHusky@aol.com > > I ordered my first 1,000 rivets from Zenith. I see that Aircraft Spruce > also has the same rivet, with the same Avdel part number for half the cost > of > Zenith. Has anyone ordered these rivets to see if they are the same. > Every > detail of them seems to be the same. > > Thank you for the information > > Larry Husky > Completing tail section this week > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:36 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> bird flu do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" > > > Tested for WHAT? Bob U. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kevinbonds" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:11 PM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivets > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" >> >> Larry >> >> Check the archives for the complex history of this topic. Basically you > need >> to be certain that your batch has been tested. Do this yourself or let >> Zenith do it. >> >> Kevin Bonds >> >> Nashville TN >> >> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. >> >> Empennage done; working on wings and engine. >> >> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds >> >> >> >> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > LHusky@aol.com >> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 2:45 PM >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LHusky@aol.com >> >> I ordered my first 1,000 rivets from Zenith. I see that Aircraft Spruce >> also has the same rivet, with the same Avdel part number for half the > cost >> of >> Zenith. Has anyone ordered these rivets to see if they are the same. >> Every >> detail of them seems to be the same. >> >> Thank you for the information >> >> Larry Husky >> Completing tail section this week >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:07 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: XL Center armrest From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" A newbie question - I'm still waiting for my kit. Has anyone ever built an XL with the center console made a little narrower (like 3 inches instead of 5)? Is there enough clearance on the elevator cables to allow this? Zenith's website lists the seat width at 21 inches but with sidepanels installed it appears to be not much more than 18.5. Comments? -------- CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - awaiting kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23233#23233 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:32 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" ZAC tests them to a certain strength. CH wrote about in a newsletter. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Unternaehrer Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" Tested for WHAT? Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kevinbonds" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivets > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > > Larry > > Check the archives for the complex history of this topic. Basically you need > to be certain that your batch has been tested. Do this yourself or let > Zenith do it. > > Kevin Bonds > > Nashville TN > > 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > > Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > > http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > > > do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LHusky@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 2:45 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LHusky@aol.com > > I ordered my first 1,000 rivets from Zenith. I see that Aircraft Spruce > also has the same rivet, with the same Avdel part number for half the cost > of > Zenith. Has anyone ordered these rivets to see if they are the same. > Every > detail of them seems to be the same. > > Thank you for the information > > Larry Husky > Completing tail section this week > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:21 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: LHusky@aol.com I could read all day in the archives. Yes, this is probably the way to do it, but I did not belong to the group then and there may be some more insight on the subject now. I would like a little more information on the testing of the rivets. Wouldn't all the rivets that come from Avdel be same and would they not have thier own quality control department? I will search the archive as directed, but would still like some information from anyone willing to share it. Thanks, Larry ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:14 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" PASSED. bOB u. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> > > bird flu > > > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Unternaehrer" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:46 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" > > > > > > Tested for WHAT? Bob U. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "kevinbonds" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:11 PM > > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivets > > > > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" > >> > >> Larry > >> > >> Check the archives for the complex history of this topic. Basically you > > need > >> to be certain that your batch has been tested. Do this yourself or let > >> Zenith do it. > >> > >> Kevin Bonds > >> > >> Nashville TN > >> > >> 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. > >> > >> Empennage done; working on wings and engine. > >> > >> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds > >> > >> > >> > >> do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > LHusky@aol.com > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 2:45 PM > >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >> Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets > >> > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LHusky@aol.com > >> > >> I ordered my first 1,000 rivets from Zenith. I see that Aircraft Spruce > >> also has the same rivet, with the same Avdel part number for half the > > cost > >> of > >> Zenith. Has anyone ordered these rivets to see if they are the same. > >> Every > >> detail of them seems to be the same. > >> > >> Thank you for the information > >> > >> Larry Husky > >> Completing tail section this week > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:31 PM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Center armrest --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" The only problem I see would be that the aileron control horn (if you use dual sticks) or the control stick itself (if you use center-stick) might not be able to travel laterally the full distance that they are supposed to travel if you narrow the center console. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Juhl" To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: XL Center armrest Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:23:48 -0800 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" A newbie question - I'm still waiting for my kit. Has anyone ever built an XL with the center console made a little narrower (like 3 inches instead of 5)? Is there enough clearance on the elevator cables to allow this? Zenith's website lists the seat width at 21 inches but with sidepanels installed it appears to be not much more than 18.5. Comments? -------- CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - awaiting kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D23233#23233 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:44 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: XL Center armrest --> Zenith-List message posted by: I believe the rudder cables would have the interference problem first since they go thru the console in the horizontal in the horizontal plane. Jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Juhl" > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: XL Center armrest > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:23:48 -0800 > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > > A newbie question - I'm still waiting for my kit. > Has anyone ever built an XL with the center console made a little > narrower > (like 3 inches instead of 5)? Is there enough clearance on the > elevator > cables to allow this? > > Zenith's website lists the seat width at 21 inches but with > sidepanels > installed it appears to be not much more than 18.5. > > Comments? > > -------- > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - awaiting kit > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:21 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Larry, Sorry if I came off as annoyed, just can't find time to give a complete answer at the moment. Just do a search for "avex made in China" or something you'll get the info. Basically Textron has begun making our rivets in China (as opposed to UK) as of late. Jury is still out on reliability of Quality. I'm still using UK rivets that CH recommends. When it comes time I'll test as per Newsletter--can't remember which # (maybe someone else will chime in on that) diagram. The newsletter # may be in the archives as well. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LHusky@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: LHusky@aol.com I could read all day in the archives. Yes, this is probably the way to do it, but I did not belong to the group then and there may be some more insight on the subject now. I would like a little more information on the testing of the rivets. Wouldn't all the rivets that come from Avdel be same and would they not have thier own quality control department? I will search the archive as directed, but would still like some information from anyone willing to share it. Thanks, Larry ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:18 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" I plan to use primer between mating surfaces and probably treat the wings and airframe with a mist of ACF 50 or similar when completed. For what it's worth, I've owned a 1968 C172 and 1975 Cessna 182 which were not zinc chromated on any interior surfaces. I don't know what grade aluminum Cessna used. The 182 was a Florida bird until I bought it in 1997. Both were reasonably clean inside, particularly between the ribs and bulkheads. I never saw any areas of serious corrosion, just minor surface oxidation. I used ACF 50 in both aircraft and was happy with the results. I hangar my aircraft which offers a great deal of protection. If I had to tiedown outside all the time I would probably zinc chromate any areas likely to collect moisture....just to be safe. -------- CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - awaiting kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23306#23306 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:45 PM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" My landing light is in the right wing for exactly that same reason. Phil N601MX XL/Corvair > The person who owned the first Zenith I'd ever seen up close- a >gorgeous >HDS, commented on the same left turn tendency. He said that if he had to do >it all over again, he'd put as much accessory weight as he could in the >right side. Consequently, I put my landing light and aileron trim in the >right wing. > Before cutting metal, I contacted EAA to find out if there was any reg >against putting a landing light in the right wing. According to the EAA >Technical Counselor, you can put the landing light anywhere, but he said >the >problem was probably aerodynamic and not weight related. > As light as the Zenith is, there's a possibility that weight really is >a >factor, but three people noticing the same tendency is not conclusive. > Anyone else want to "Weigh in"? > > Bill ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:48 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight, 601 XL, N140BB From: "Ron Lendon" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" That's gotta feel just great. Keep us posted -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23348#23348