---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/22/06: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:18 AM - Re: Rivets (Jari Kaija) 2. 04:59 AM - Zenith Builders BBQ-The BIG EVENT (Zodie Rocket) 3. 05:19 AM - Re: Rivets (Testing) (N5SL) 4. 05:52 AM - Re: Zenith Builders BBQ-The BIG EVENT (Jim Hoak) 5. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 6. 08:01 AM - Re: Rivets (Testing) (Jonathan Starke) 7. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL (Jaybannist@cs.com) 8. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Rick Lindstrom) 9. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Randy) 10. 11:14 AM - Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Tim Juhl) 11. 12:05 PM - Actual serious question (Zed Smith) 12. 12:40 PM - Re: Actual serious question (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 13. 01:08 PM - left turn (alex trent) 14. 01:13 PM - Re: Actual serious question (N5SL) 15. 01:14 PM - Re: Actual serious question (Craig Moore) 16. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? (Rick Lindstrom) 17. 02:03 PM - Actual serious question (Randy L. Thwing) 18. 02:15 PM - Re: Actual serious question (Mike Sinclair) 19. 03:19 PM - Re: Actual serious question (Hewett Properties) 20. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL (Bill+Rose) 21. 04:41 PM - Re: Actual serious question (n801bh@netzero.com) 22. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 23. 07:59 PM - Re: Actual serious question (Dave) 24. 09:50 PM - Re: Actual serious question (Shaun Smith) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:29 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > I'll test as per Newsletter--can't remember which # (maybe someone else will If someone has this Newsletter and scanner, I really want to get that article by email for educational purposes. No, I haven't anykind problem with my rivets, which are NOT avdel avex (I use much stronger POP rivets from Emhart, even I have to use many different lenghts of them), but I'm curious, how THEY do all tests. jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:58 AM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Builders BBQ-The BIG EVENT --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" FREE FOOD, GATHERING OF ZENITH BUILDERS AND CHRIS HEINTZ COULD THIS BE ANY BETTER? This TRULY is a FREE LUNCH!! OK Dinner!! If you're a Zenith Owner or builder Just click on the link at www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com and send me an E-Mail so I know how many to buy for. Reminder, For all of you attending Sun-N-Fun Please come out to the 2nd Annual Webmasters BBQ for owners and Builders of Zenith Aircraft. This year's event is being held on Thursday April 6th once again in the campgrounds. Last years event saw 125 people, hit reply and add a "do not archive" This way I can purchase dogs and burgers accordingly. Last year we had donations of food and somebody brought a great flat of Strawberries, we could still use more desserts. I'm glad to report that Jabiru USA has once again generously donated to our event We have also had donations from Homebuilthelp.com and Sensornetics. Rick Roberts has donated his crew to handle the Grills. The BBQ starts at 5 pm just after the show and runs till 8pm when the trolleys stop running. The location will be posted in the Zenith booth or just ask any member of the Zenith team. Builders, Owners or dreaming of a Zenith are all welcome. The whole Zenith Family including Chris Heintz himself will be present just for you. There are no speeches just a great time sharing stories!!! There will also be a representative from Jabiru USA, homebuilthelp.com and Sensornetics, they are going to be present just for you to have time to ask the questions you always wanted answered. This is your personal time to spend with them. Please send us an E-Mail we really don't want to run out of food or have to run out Thursday afternoon for more supplies just before the event. I look forward to meeting everyone. I could use a few desserts and salads if you care to bring something. Mark, David, Jon and Rick -- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:20 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets (Testing) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL I tested my rivets. Several had bird flu and one had mad cow. It turned out OK because the green Scotch-Brite killed all the germs and I was able to save the whole batch. Just to be safe I dipped them in alodine, sprayed them with Zinc Chromate and had them Degaussed. Scott (Do Not Archive) Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Working on FWF again > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" > <601zv@ritternet.com> > > bird flu > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Unternaehrer" > > > > > Tested for WHAT? Bob U. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "kevinbonds" Basically you needto be certain that your batch has been tested. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:45 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Builders BBQ-The BIG EVENT --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" Mark, Since this event will be at my camper area, I'll try to round up some cakes and cookies which I can stow in the camper until we need them. With my fridge I may be able to provide some salads too. The fridge just isn't real big! Jim Hoak do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zodie Rocket" Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:53 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Builders BBQ-The BIG EVENT > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" > > FREE FOOD, GATHERING OF ZENITH BUILDERS AND CHRIS HEINTZ > > COULD THIS BE ANY BETTER? > > This TRULY is a FREE LUNCH!! OK Dinner!! If you're a Zenith Owner or > builder Just click on the link at www.ch601.org or www.ch701.com and > send me an E-Mail so I know how many to buy for. > > Reminder, For all of you attending Sun-N-Fun Please come out to the 2nd > Annual Webmasters BBQ for owners and Builders of Zenith Aircraft. This > year's event is being held on Thursday April 6th once again in the > campgrounds. Last years event saw 125 people, hit reply and add a "do > not archive" This way I can purchase dogs and burgers accordingly. Last > year we had donations of food and somebody brought a great flat of > Strawberries, we could still use more desserts. I'm glad to report that > Jabiru USA has once again generously donated to our event We have also > had donations from Homebuilthelp.com and Sensornetics. Rick Roberts has > donated his crew to handle the Grills. The BBQ starts at 5 pm just after > the show and runs till 8pm when the trolleys stop running. The location > will be posted in the Zenith booth or just ask any member of the Zenith > team. Builders, Owners or dreaming of a Zenith are all welcome. > > The whole Zenith Family including Chris Heintz himself will be present > just for you. There are no speeches just a great time sharing stories!!! > There will also be a representative from Jabiru USA, homebuilthelp.com > and Sensornetics, they are going to be present just for you to have time > to ask the questions you always wanted answered. This is your personal > time to spend with them. Please send us an E-Mail we really don't want > to run out of food or have to run out Thursday afternoon for more > supplies just before the event. I look forward to meeting everyone. I > could use a few desserts and salads if you care to bring something. > > Mark, David, Jon and Rick > > > -- > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:43 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Bill, my XL flies with a little heavy left wing when I fly alone, but when I carry someone the tendency disappears and depending on weight of passenger I may not even need to input any aileron trim. I suppose that the ZAC folks designed these factors into the plane. Before I would weigh the right side to balance for one I would consider what that will do when the two people weight is factored in. Might then have a heavy right wing. FWIW, Bill of Georgia don not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:46 AM PST US From: "Jonathan Starke" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivets (Testing) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" Very Very Good, you made my day! >I tested my rivets. >Several had bird flu and one had mad cow. It turned >out OK because the green Scotch-Brite killed all the >germs and I was able to save the whole batch. Just to >be safe I dipped them in alodine, sprayed them with >Zinc Chromate and had them Degaussed. >Scott (Do Not Archive) Laughlin >www.cooknwithgas.com >Working on FWF again > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" > <601zv@ritternet.com> > > bird flu > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Unternaehrer" > > > > > Tested for WHAT? Bob U. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "kevinbonds" Basically you needto be certain that your batch has been tested. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:04 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist@cs.com My EAA tech advisor has suggested a "bungee trim" for ailerons in lieu of a wing-mounted trim tab. It would be connected to the aileron cables inside the fuselage with a mechanical control (ala Piper elevator trim). ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:59 AM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Lindstrom I concur, Tim. I also plan to use ACF-50 annually as an ongoing corrosion protection program for my 601XL, for several reasons. It's much easier to apply than any kind of internal primer or paint, it will work its way into joints to provide protection when the original chromate has flaked or cracked from airframe flexing or simply worn away, and the weight penalty will be minimized. Toss in its lubricating qualities and its pleasant vanilla smell, and I'm there! Rick Lindstrom N42KP Tim Juhl wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > >I plan to use primer between mating surfaces and probably treat the wings and airframe with a mist of ACF 50 or similar when completed. > >For what it's worth, I've owned a 1968 C172 and 1975 Cessna 182 which were not zinc chromated on any interior surfaces. I don't know what grade aluminum Cessna used. The 182 was a Florida bird until I bought it in 1997. Both were reasonably clean inside, particularly between the ribs and bulkheads. I never saw any areas of serious corrosion, just minor surface oxidation. I used ACF 50 in both aircraft and was happy with the results. > >I hangar my aircraft which offers a great deal of protection. If I had to tiedown outside all the time I would probably zinc chromate any areas likely to collect moisture....just to be safe. > >-------- >CFII >Champ L16A flying >Zodiac XL - awaiting kit > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23306#23306 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:58 AM PST US From: "Randy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy" Hi Rick, I was planning on doing the same thing either with ACF-50 or Corrision X, but I'm wondering how you're going to spay it. Will you use just the aerosol cans or do you have some spay equipment with a wand that will allow you to reach up inside the wings? Randy Ferri N789RF (reserved) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lindstrom" Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Lindstrom > > > I concur, Tim. > > I also plan to use ACF-50 annually as an ongoing corrosion protection > program for my 601XL, for several reasons. > > It's much easier to apply than any kind of internal primer or paint, it > will work its way into joints to provide protection when the original > chromate has flaked or cracked from airframe flexing or simply worn > away, and the weight penalty will be minimized. Toss in its lubricating > qualities and its pleasant vanilla smell, and I'm there! > > Rick Lindstrom > N42KP > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" Ref ACF 50 - Basically they use a pump-up garden sprayer with an extended tube. You could probably make an extension up from aluminum tubing. Caution, you want the ACF 50 to come out the end as a mist, not a stream. On my Cessnas they pulled off the wing tips and inserted the wand through the lightening holes in the ribs. While holding the trigger the wand is pulled out leaving the mist behind. Do that at the front and rear of the wing. The fuselage is much easier. You could use the spray can to do trim tabs and other tight areas. A word of caution...you may see a little seepage along seams for awhile but it is minor (and proof that the stuff is working as advertised.) -------- CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - awaiting kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23484#23484 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:43 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith List, A friend asked as to the maximum number of washers on an AN bolt. Since I'm at the office, no printed references at hand, here goes..... My rememberance of the requirements: two maximum He thinks it is three washers maximum. So here is the real question: It that ON EACH END? (This would end up being FOUR in the one case, two under the head, two under the nut) or (SIX in the other case......three under the head, three under the nut). As I understand his needs, he desires a washer under the head. He also needs to put two under the nut so that the Castle nut is in the correct place for the Cotter pin. Grip length, he says, is correct. Anybody want to rivet this one to the wall? Thanks, Zed/701/R912/90+%/Thanks, Guys/do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:03 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Actual serious question From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" In theory its zero washers under the head and two on the other end. Having said that, if it is a super critical structural point like a wing spar then I would adhere to this rule...If a few of the others required an additional washer under the head it is unlikely the inspector would have a problem and I certainly wouldn't. Frank...People keep calling me about my HDS for sale...I feeel very sad!.. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zed Smith Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith List, A friend asked as to the maximum number of washers on an AN bolt. Since I'm at the office, no printed references at hand, here goes..... My rememberance of the requirements: two maximum He thinks it is three washers maximum. So here is the real question: It that ON EACH END? (This would end up being FOUR in the one case, two under the head, two under the nut) or (SIX in the other case......three under the head, three under the nut). As I understand his needs, he desires a washer under the head. He also needs to put two under the nut so that the Castle nut is in the correct place for the Cotter pin. Grip length, he says, is correct. Anybody want to rivet this one to the wall? Thanks, ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:58 PM PST US From: alex trent Subject: Zenith-List: left turn --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent > >Time: 05:24:54 PM PST US >From: "George Swinford" >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" > >I notice a left turn tendency when flying solo in any of several flying club >Cessna 150s. These are well maintained airplanes, usually used for dual >instruction. I never noticed the left turn tendency with an instructor or >passenger. I wish the 150 had aileron trim. > >George Swinford > >Do not archive > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bill+Rose" >Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:20 PM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL > > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "David X" >>To: >>Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:27 PM >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL >>David- >> The person who owned the first Zenith I'd ever seen up close- a >> >> >gorgeous > > >>HDS, commented on the same left turn tendency. He said that if he had to >> >> > > > Used to own a 65 hp Chief, if you leaned left it would turn left lean right turn right lean back climb etc. Very sensitive in trim. alex ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:10 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL A serious answer from EAA sport Aviation, March, 1998: Basics of Bolt Installation Certain accepted practices prevail concerning the installation of hardware. A few of these regarding bolt installation follow: a. In determining proper bolt lengthno more than 1 thread should be hidden inside the bolt hole. b. Whenever possible, bolts should be installed pointing aft and to the center of an airplane. c. Use a torque wrench whenever possible & determine torque values based on the size of bolt. d. Be sure bolt and nut threads are clean and dry. e. Use smooth, even pulls when tightening. f. Tighten the nut firstwhenever possible. g. A typical installation includes a bolt, 1 washer, and a nut. h. If the bolt is too long, a maximum of 3 washers may be used. i. If more than 3 threads are protruding from the nut, the bolt may be too long and could be bottoming out on the shank. j. Use undrilled bolts with fiber lock nuts. If you use a drilled bolt and fiber nut combination, be sure no burrs exist on the drilled hole that will cut the fiber. k. If the bolt does not fit snug, consider the use of a close tolerance bolt. l. Dont make a practice of cutting off a bolt that is too long to fit a hole. That can often weaken the bolt and allow corrosion in the area that is cut. --- Zed Smith wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > > List, > > A friend asked as to the maximum number of washers > on an AN bolt. > Since I'm at the office, no printed references at > hand, here goes..... ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:56 PM PST US From: Craig Moore Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore Zed, >From the 43-13, 7-37. GRIP LENGTH. In general, bolt grip lengths of a fastener is the thickness of the material the fastener is designed to hold when two or more parts are being assembled. Bolts of slightly greater grip length may be used, provided washers are placed under the nut or bolthead. The maximum combined height of washers that should be used is 1/8 inch. This limits the use of washers necessary to compensate for grip, up to the next standard grip size. Over the years, some fasteners specifications have been changed. For this reason, it is recommended when making repairs to an aircraft, whose original hardware is being replaced, that you must first measure the bolt before ordering, rather than relying on the parts manual for identification. In the case of plate nuts, if proper bolt grip length is not available, add shims under the plate. All bolt installations which involve self-locking or plain nuts should have at least one thread of the bolt protruding through the nut. Craig Moore A&P 701 builder wannabe --- Zed Smith wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > > List, > > A friend asked as to the maximum number of washers > on an AN bolt. > Since I'm at the office, no printed references at > hand, here goes..... > > My rememberance of the requirements: two maximum > He thinks it is three washers maximum. > > So here is the real question: It that ON EACH END? > (This would end up being FOUR in the one case, two > under the head, two under the nut) or (SIX in the > other case......three under the head, three under > the nut). > > As I understand his needs, he desires a washer under > the head. He also needs to put two under the nut so > that the Castle nut is in the correct place for the > Cotter pin. Grip length, he says, is correct. > > Anybody want to rivet this one to the wall? > > Thanks, > > Zed/701/R912/90+%/Thanks, Guys/ do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:22 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Lindstrom Hi, Randy! The handheld spray system from Lear Chemical (ACF-50) is pretty inexpensive and comes with a variety of wands, overkill for a Zodiac but certainly the easiest way to mist the internals. I've got some other certified aircraft needing treatment as well, so I consider it to be a worthwhile investment. And I've already got a good compressor. Perhaps we should have a "mist in" during the next Zenith gathering? I'll bet you could completely treat a 601, once the wing tips are removed, in under 15 minutes with Lear's spray system - much easier than your typical Cessna or Piper. Best, Rick Randy wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy" > >Hi Rick, > >I was planning on doing the same thing either with ACF-50 or Corrision X, >but I'm wondering how you're going to spay it. Will you use just the >aerosol cans or do you have some spay equipment with a wand that will allow >you to reach up inside the wings? > >Randy Ferri >N789RF (reserved) >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rick Lindstrom" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:34 AM >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion >primer? > > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Lindstrom >> >> >>I concur, Tim. >> >>I also plan to use ACF-50 annually as an ongoing corrosion protection >>program for my 601XL, for several reasons. >> >>It's much easier to apply than any kind of internal primer or paint, it >>will work its way into joints to provide protection when the original >>chromate has flaked or cracked from airframe flexing or simply worn >>away, and the weight penalty will be minimized. Toss in its lubricating >>qualities and its pleasant vanilla smell, and I'm there! >> >>Rick Lindstrom >>N42KP >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:43 PM PST US From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" Hello Listers: I am glad frivolity and fun has been shut down on this list and we are getting back to strictly serious questions. Now: I am using a pneumatic rivet gun for setting the A4 rivets, what color socks should I be wearing for this operation? Apoligeticly yours, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:49 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Green? "Randy L. Thwing" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" > > Hello Listers: > I am glad frivolity and fun has been shut down on this list and we are > getting back to strictly serious questions. > Now: I am using a pneumatic rivet gun for setting the A4 rivets, what color > socks should I be wearing for this operation? > > Apoligeticly yours, > > Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:21 PM PST US From: "Hewett Properties" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hewett Properties" Just don't wear white or they'll clash with your "wing tips". Only the over 40 crowd will have a clue. Love the website. >From the sidelines Tim Hewett, Council Bluffs IA -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy L. Thwing Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:01 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" --> Hello Listers: I am glad frivolity and fun has been shut down on this list and we are getting back to strictly serious questions. Now: I am using a pneumatic rivet gun for setting the A4 rivets, what color socks should I be wearing for this operation? Apoligeticly yours, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:11 PM PST US From: "Bill+Rose" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" Bill- The owner of the HDS had a pretty good response to the passenger angle. 90% of the time, he flew solo. 9.999% of the remaining time, he flew with his wife. My wife has to weigh 60 lbs less than I do, so there will still be more weight in the left seat and I should still come out ahead. The less trim you have to use, the less wind resistance. The less wind resistance, yada yada yada. It all depends on your projected usage, and it's not like I put both tanks on one side or anything outrageous. Of course, this "Fix" wouldn't work for Jack Spratt. Bill Hey, at least it's not Darryl and Darryl! Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:28 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > Bill, my XL flies with a little heavy left wing when I fly alone, but when > I > carry someone the tendency disappears and depending on weight of passenger > I > may not even need to input any aileron trim. I suppose that the ZAC folks > designed these factors into the plane. Before I would weigh the right side > to > balance for one I would consider what that will do when the two people > weight is > factored in. Might then have a heavy right wing. FWIW, Bill of Georgia > don not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:37 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" Hello Listers: I am glad frivolity and fun has been shut down on this list and we are getting back to strictly serious questions. Now: I am using a pneumatic rivet gun for setting the A4 rivets, what color socks should I be wearing for this operation? Apoligeticly yours, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Don't wear socks while riveting. Duct tape GREEN scotchbrite to your ankles and wrap them around your toes. That way you get a pedicure at the same time you are setting those un-tested A-4 rivets. Definately do not archive...... Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com Hello Listers: I am glad frivolity and fun has been shut down on this list and we are getting back to strictly serious questions. Now: I am using a pneumatic rivet gun for setting the A4 rivets, what color socks should I be wearing for this operation? Apoligeticly yours, Randy L. Thwing, Las Vegas do not archive /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Don't wear socks while riveting. Duct tape GREEN scotchbrite to your ankles and wrap them around your toes. That way you get a pedicure at the same time you aresetting those un-tested A-4 rivets. G Definately do not archive...... BenHaas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:44 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron stiffness and force - XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Bill, to tell you the truth I can't tell any difference in speed alone with aileron trim up. Never have pushed it to see max speed (beyond 3K rpm) so the difference must be very slight. Have noticed a slight decrease with elevator trim though, but to balance the plane hands off for ease of flying the minor speed loss is negligible. I usually worry more about fighting head winds. Flew the other day, doing 140 plus, looked at the GPS, said ground speed was 67 ! Yugos going up hill were passing me. Best regards, Bill of Georgia do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:18 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" Preferably contrasting to the scotch-brite pads. See Martha Stewarts website for further color coordination ideas to your interior upholstery and paint scheme. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Green? "Randy L. Thwing" wrote: do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:29 PM PST US From: Shaun Smith Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Shaun Smith take me off your list Dave wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" Preferably contrasting to the scotch-brite pads. See Martha Stewarts website for further color coordination ideas to your interior upholstery and paint scheme. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Actual serious question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Green? "Randy L. Thwing" wrote: do not archive