Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:43 AM - Email address for builder N447WB (Clive Richards)
2. 02:43 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Dave G.)
3. 03:12 AM - Rivet sources (Jean-Paul Roy)
4. 04:17 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Bob Unternaehrer)
5. 06:03 AM - Re: Ready to start project (William Dominguez)
6. 06:19 AM - Re: Ready to start project (B Johnson)
7. 07:00 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Jeff Davidson)
8. 07:38 AM - Re: Ailerons and roll bars (Kelly Meiste)
9. 07:38 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Ron Butterfield)
10. 07:38 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
11. 07:39 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Kevin Kinney)
12. 07:48 AM - Re: Ailerons and roll bars (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 08:30 AM - Re: Ready to start project (LarryMcFarland)
14. 08:46 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
15. 08:46 AM - Re: Rivets (Testing) (Jon Croke)
16. 08:47 AM - Re: Rivets (Testing) (Jon Croke)
17. 09:59 AM - Roll bar (Ricchardd@aol.com)
18. 01:46 PM - Re: Ready to start project (kevinbonds)
19. 01:58 PM - Re: Ready to start project (Craig Payne)
20. 02:01 PM - Re: 601-HDS For Sale Amazing Opportunity (kevin-jones)
21. 03:26 PM - Re: Ailerons and roll bars (Bill+Rose)
22. 03:59 PM - 801 (Dave Ruddiman)
23. 04:49 PM - Re: 801 (LarryMcFarland)
24. 05:07 PM - Re: Ailerons and roll bars (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
25. 05:22 PM - XL with Jabiru Gascolater Question (Chuck & Lana Maggart)
26. 07:42 PM - Re: Ailerons and roll bars (Tim Juhl)
27. 07:57 PM - Forming Nose Splice 7A2-3 (doug kandle)
28. 08:12 PM - CH-701 wing bottom trailing edge skin trimming at wingtip (Rory Davis)
29. 10:11 PM - Re: Forming Nose Splice 7A2-3 (Mike Sinclair)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Email address for builder N447WB |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" <stephen@crichards.flyer.co.uk>
Hi List
Has any one on the list a new email address for Ed Welander builder of N447WB FAA
Web site
says it was exported to New Zealand
Ray has used Eds canopy latch design & woud like to contact him to confirm he has
had no problems
as we are trying to get our PFA to clear Rays aircraft for flight.
Clive Richards for Ray Lasnier G CBDG wating Permit to test from PFA.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
What are the differences between the new XL and the HD or even the 601 UL
for that matter? I've looked at the site but there is not a direct
comparison on construction.
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
If I may add to the infos provided by cdgoose yesterday about Avdel rivets, I found
a post on another list with more details:
Avdel Division of Textron Canada Limited
87 Disco Road
Rexdale, Ontario M9W 1M3
Telephone: 1-800-268-9947 or (416) 679-0622
Facsimile: 1-800-594-7661 or (416) 679-0678
sales@avdeltextron.ca
You will need the part numbers:
A4 (1/8") 01604-00412
A5 (5/32") 01604-00514
prices for 1000:
A4 CDN$46.32
A5 CDN$56.10
Hope this helps
Jean-Paul
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
I think it's about looks you prefer and speed. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimbo" <jimandmandy@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Ready to start project
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> Ive been lurking here a while and notice alomost all
> the current projects are 601XLs. I got a demo flight
> in the factory one at Camarillo last year. I was also
> given a demo flight in a Jabiru 3300 powered Sonex
> taildragger by one of the members of my EAA chapter,
> 96 at CPM. I am a 200hr private pilot, most time in
> 152's and some in the Katana. From that experience and
> for other reasons, I will not own a Rotax engine.
>
> The bottom line is that after much study I am ready to
> buy plans for the tri-gear 601HD and my current engine
> choice is Corvair. Is anyone else here building or
> flying this same combination?
>
> Sonex - best performance for the buck, but not as
> comfortable or stable for long flights or insurable
> (per Avemco).
>
> 601XL - More complex, heavier and more costly.
>
> 601HD - Just right.
>
> Before I order plans, opinions from this group,
> please.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
Jimbo,
First off all welcome. Im in the first stages of
plans building. I had the same dilemmas that you have
before I decided to order the 601XL plans. I favored
the XL over the HD because of the following reasons.
- The XL have better performance.
- While the HD might be easier to attach and remove
wings, both of them are laborious enough to make it
impractical trailering every time you are going to
fly. Ive decided to bring the plane home only once a
year during hurricane season for protection,
maintenance and check up. None of them are difficult
enough for Occasional trailering. The flaps are not
difficult to connect, check some of the builder web
sites and you will see that no tool is required to
connect the flaps.
- Header tank make for easy wing removal and
reattachment but wing tank are safer. Im uneasy to
the idea of a gasoline tank over my feet.
- There is not much difference in complexity during
building, the only difference will come when making
your wing rear ribs, in the HD you will use one set of
bending blocks while in the XL you will need 9.
- Im 6 with disproportional long legs, the XL have
better leg room.
- Not a strong reason but the XL looks better.
For a while I though that I was going to go with the
HD, I dont regret changing my mind to the XL.
William Dominguez
Plansbuilt 601XL
--- Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo
> <jimandmandy@yahoo.com>
>
>
> --- Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
> > <craig@craigandjean.com>
> >
>
> >
> > BTW - I thought the HDS was an "improved" HD. What
> > made you choose one over
> > the other?
> >
> > -- Craig
>
>
> The HDS model is not LSA due to the higher speeds,
> top
> and stall. I think the XL has flaps because of the
> slight taper and different airfoil. Wing tanks and
> flaps I want to avoid to make trailering the
> aircraft
> more practical due to fewer things to connect and
> disconnect. I am concerned a little about fuel CG
> with
> the header tank, but a Corvair is supposed to be no
> heavier than a Rotax or Subaru.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
Randy Stout in San Antonio has an HD with a Corvair:
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/
His numbers are (with pilot only) "Top Speed 122mph (that's just over 100
knots) Cruise speed 107mph (that's a dismal 93knots, my buddie's Taylorcraft
cruises at that)
Check out Randy's web page and see if you can contact him directly. He also
participates in the matronics Corvair list if you can't get him any other
way.
The Sonex is considerably faster, but you're quite right about the cross
country comfort level (IMHO). As far as the Sonex being insurable, there
are over 110 flying and yea you can get insurance at a reasonable price,
(but NOT if you put a Corvair in it..)
The XL is the "updated" design of the Zodiac family, you will get "real" LSA
performance out of the XL (not Taylorcraft performance). Yes it is a bit
more complicated to build with the flaps and wing tanks, but it's quite
worth it.. Your resale value will be higher. (Between being the more
"updated" design, and the fact that you will get some interest from people
looking at buying factory new xls for $85-100K). On those long cross
countries you were concerned about, you will arrive 25% faster (at least).
And the extra complexity of the wingtanks/flaps will be offset by all the
work that William Wynne has been, and continues to do on the Corvair/XL
combo to make it a complete FWF "drop in" package, where a lot of the
engineering for the HD you will have to do yourself (OK, it's not THAT
different, but still).
Also I assume, since you are looking at the Corvair you've read all of WW's
web page? www.flycorvair.com
Short answer: build the XL you'll be MUCH happier in the end....
-Bruce Johnson
Scratch building a Sonex near San Antonio,TX but the XL was VERY close on
my short list.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimbo
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:12 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Ready to start project
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> Ive been lurking here a while and notice alomost all
> the current projects are 601XLs. I got a demo flight
> in the factory one at Camarillo last year. I was also
> given a demo flight in a Jabiru 3300 powered Sonex
> taildragger by one of the members of my EAA chapter,
> 96 at CPM. I am a 200hr private pilot, most time in
> 152's and some in the Katana. From that experience and
> for other reasons, I will not own a Rotax engine.
>
> The bottom line is that after much study I am ready to
> buy plans for the tri-gear 601HD and my current engine
> choice is Corvair. Is anyone else here building or
> flying this same combination?
>
> Sonex - best performance for the buck, but not as
> comfortable or stable for long flights or insurable
> (per Avemco).
>
> 601XL - More complex, heavier and more costly.
>
> 601HD - Just right.
>
> Before I order plans, opinions from this group,
> please.
>
> Jim
>
--
Message 7
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| Subject: | Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Davidson" <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
William Dominguez wrote:
First off all welcome. Im in the first stages of
plans building. I had the same dilemmas that you have
before I decided to order the 601XL plans. I favored
the XL over the HD because of the following reasons.
<snip>
- Header tank make for easy wing removal and
reattachment but wing tank are safer. Im uneasy to
the idea of a gasoline tank over my feet.
- There is not much difference in complexity during
building, the only difference will come when making
your wing rear ribs, in the HD you will use one set of
bending blocks while in the XL you will need 9.
<snip>
On the header tank question, leading edge wing tanks to fit the HD wings are
an available option. I have that option and my fuel system is close to the
newer XL fuel system available on the ZAC site.
On the complexity item, the HD gear boxes have been considered a difficult
part of the HD to build over the years. I built my boxes some time ago and
have recently installed the gear legs and the bungee cords. Despite all the
discussion, I found it to be less of a problem that I expected. Getting the
bolts into the confined space was frustrating, but only for a couple hours.
In fact, I took it apart and put it back together without a real problem. I
did benefit from all the suggestions available on the list for it.
And as far as the canopy is concerned, I simply ordered the front hinged XL
canopy as opposed to the side opening canopy.
I preferred the HD over the HDS because the stall speed is lower and meets
the LSA requirements. Neither the HD or the HDS are fast aircraft.
Jeff Davidson
601 HD Jab 3300A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons and roll bars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kelly Meiste" <kellymeiste@jcwifi.com>
My FAA airworthiness inspector told me as he was inspecting my plane (in
2002) that he was recently asked to investigate a fatal accident involving a
601. I believe he said it was in FL were a 601 nosed over after landing
(think it went off the runway), killing the pilot. He was asking me if
Zenith has since added any type of roll over protection. Sadly I had to tell
him no.
Kelly Meiste
601 HD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons and roll bars
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> "The only Zenith I've seen inverted was one that was tied down outside in
> really bad weather."
>
> http://www.ch601.org/stories.htm
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Ready to start project |
Cc: d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield <rbutterfield@mebtel.net>
At 05:38 AM 3/24/06, dgoddard wrote:
>What are the differences between the new XL and the HD or even the 601 UL
>for that matter? I've looked at the site but there is not a direct
>comparison on construction.
Here is a comparison:
www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-compare.html
The HD is the original design. Straight stub wings, and the
relatively thick wing chord is constant all the way out.
www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hd.html
The HDS has as it's only difference shorter, tapered outer wings.
This increases both the stall and the top speed.
www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-hds.html
The UL was designed to meet the European and Canadian restriction for
Advanced Ultralight (gross under 480 kg etc). It has slightly lighter
construction than the HD, but is otherwise identical.
www.zenithair.com/zodiac/601-ul.html
The XL was designed within the limitations of the Sport Pilot
category, to be as much plane as possible and still fit the
requirements. Among the changes are a different (thinner) slightly
tapered wing section, full-length wing panels (no stub wings), some
heavier construction for the higher gross, and spring main gear
instead of bungee.
www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/index.html
(all below figures with 100hp)
HD- gross-1200 stall@1050-44 cruise-120
HDS- gross-1200 stall@1050-54 cruise-135
UL- gross-1058 stall@1050-44 cruise-120
XL- gross-1300 stall@1300-44 cruise-134
Bottom line, if you want to go somewhere and take something with you,
the XL is probably the best choice. Otherwise, whatever best fits
your specific requirements.
Regards,
RonB
Message 10
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| Subject: | Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hello Jim,
First off check out the insurance costs...I did'nt and got a nasty
surprise when I found that for a while the Subaru conversions were
almost uninsurable!...Now we have found ram Performance who can stop the
valve guides falling out of the heads these insurance issues have gone
away. Not saying the Corvair is a bad choice just make sure you know
what you are getting into.
Your engine comment is interesting about not owning a Rotax...Why not?
It has prven itself to be the most relaible engine out there, not that
others are bad...Jabaru I don't think has the same track record, Subarus
were a disaster to be quite honest until the builders finally engineered
the package properly...(It's a great and cheapish engine now..Ram
Performance is the only one I would purchase) and the Corvair conversion
does not have the track record either.
Really if your trying to stick to what you know I would build an
airplane with an o235, 320 or 360 Lycoming....A Corvair may kinda look
like these engines but its not the same...Once again not saying its
bad...Just not the same.
While we are on the subject, have you flown the RV-9(a)? Quite a bit
faster and about the same cost (Ok I'm guessing here a little) as long
as you compare apples to apples..i.e with an o235 in both airplanes. And
the insurance cost would be an interesting comparison.
The RV-9 is not a SP airplane of course.
Frank
601 HDS 393 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimbo
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:12 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Ready to start project
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com>
Hello,
Ive been lurking here a while and notice alomost all the current
projects are 601XLs. I got a demo flight in the factory one at Camarillo
last year. I was also given a demo flight in a Jabiru 3300 powered Sonex
taildragger by one of the members of my EAA chapter,
96 at CPM. I am a 200hr private pilot, most time in 152's and some in
the Katana. From that experience and for other reasons, I will not own a
Rotax engine.
The bottom line is that after much study I am ready to buy plans for the
tri-gear 601HD and my current engine choice is Corvair. Is anyone else
here building or flying this same combination?
Sonex - best performance for the buck, but not as comfortable or stable
for long flights or insurable (per Avemco).
601XL - More complex, heavier and more costly.
601HD - Just right.
Before I order plans, opinions from this group, please.
Jim
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Kinney <kkinney@fuse.net>
Jim, like you, I decided to build an HD. The reason at that time was the XL was
just too new.
Or so I thought. That changed once I went to the factory rudder workshop.
In speaking with Sebastian, I was told the XL was just an HD with all the HD optional
equipment designed in. In other words, if you were to take an HD, add
2 axis trim (I recommend this in any 601xx), leading edge gas tanks, top opening
canopy, flaps & the spring gear, you'd end up with an XL.
(That made it an incremental improvement rather than a new design. That solve
my concern about it being too new.)
I was skeptical, so I looked at that statement with a critical eye. It was essentially
true. I went with the XL.
(OK, the 601xx wing is drag-ish, so the flaps *may* be overkill, but it's nice
to have them, just in case...)
But don't take my word for it. Look at all the HD options and compare for yourself.
In addition, instead of a 16 gallon header tank, you can now get a 15 gallon tank
in each wing.
And as Paul has pointed out, you are the only one who knows your requirements.
That should really be your overriding concern.
Regards,
Kevin Kinney
P.S. Eventually you will be concerned about the "heavy left wing." There's a
simple & effective solution to this. Simply move the pilots seat slightly to
the righ so you straddle the aileron torque tube.
You *will* lose one seat out of your airplane, but you'll have a VERY roomy cockpit.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Ailerons and roll bars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Mine has been inverted several times...But never on the ground....:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons and roll bars
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
"The only Zenith I've seen inverted was one that was tied down outside
in really bad weather."
http://www.ch601.org/stories.htm
-- Craig
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Jim,
LSA performance guidelines can be met by the HDS if it is built correctly.
The first HDS to be evaluated in this context was determined not to meet
stall requirements.
Since then, several HDS builders have found that they do meet the stall
requirements and have
documented it. Zenith also agrees that it is a plane by plane assesment
during testing.
The FAA inspector of my aircraft concluded that my 601HDS was compliant,
does in
fact meet this standard and it's recorded in my POH. It's only because
it's very close margin
that this is question naturally comes up.
It will never be a LSA in the manufacturer's context, but a sport pilot
can fly it.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>The HDS model is not LSA due to the higher speeds, top
>and stall. I think the XL has flaps because of the
>slight taper and different airfoil. Wing tanks and
>flaps I want to avoid to make trailering the aircraft
>more practical due to fewer things to connect and
>disconnect. I am concerned a little about fuel CG with
>the header tank, but a Corvair is supposed to be no
>heavier than a Rotax or Subaru.
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Completed my HDS stall testing at gross weight two nights ago and indeed
it fits within SP requirements...its close but its in!
Frank
601HDS stall @ 50.6mph CAS
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryMcFarland
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ready to start project
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
--> <larry@macsmachine.com>
Jim,
LSA performance guidelines can be met by the HDS if it is built
correctly.
The first HDS to be evaluated in this context was determined not to meet
stall requirements.
Since then, several HDS builders have found that they do meet the stall
requirements and have documented it. Zenith also agrees that it is a
plane by plane assesment during testing.
The FAA inspector of my aircraft concluded that my 601HDS was compliant,
does in fact meet this standard and it's recorded in my POH. It's only
because it's very close margin that this is question naturally comes up.
It will never be a LSA in the manufacturer's context, but a sport pilot
can fly it.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>The HDS model is not LSA due to the higher speeds, top and stall. I
>think the XL has flaps because of the slight taper and different
>airfoil. Wing tanks and flaps I want to avoid to make trailering the
>aircraft more practical due to fewer things to connect and disconnect.
>I am concerned a little about fuel CG with the header tank, but a
>Corvair is supposed to be no heavier than a Rotax or Subaru.
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets (Testing) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Scott,
I want to send you a copy of the Scratch Building Basics starring David and
Mark.. I need your mail address!
SUPER that you are going to make it to Sun n Fun... am looking forward to
meeting you.
I still want to get YOU into 'movies' someday... we can talk about this,
too!
Thanks
Jon
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets (Testing) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Sorry everyone, hit the send key too soon!
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets (Testing)
> Scott,
>
>
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ricchardd@aol.com
I really think too much is being worried about upsets. In a past life I had
the unfortunate experience of parking a PT22 (open cockpit WW2 monoplane
trainer) upside down in a cow pasture. The only thing between my head and the grass
was my hat. The only damage was caused by the glare shield, none from ground.
I don't think a roll bar would be worth the effort.
just my $0.02
Richard
Message 18
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| Subject: | Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Some of Zenith's literature, as I remember, remarked that the XL is the
easiest of them all to build. People assume the tapered wing is a big a deal
but it's really not. I don't know much about the HD but, a guy I did the
workshop with was planning on going with the HD because of more useful load
(he's a big guy) seems I remember Nick or Sebastian reiterating that the XL
is easier to build (not sure the difference between kit and plans on this).
Also The Corvair tends to be a little heavier than the Rotax, Jab etc. and
the XL can have installed weight up to 300 pounds. The HD has max 265lbs FWF
(including header tank) Also doesn't the XL have larger fuel capacity (30
gal--all in the wing) with or without the header tank. Don't discount the XL
just because of a perceived degree of complexity. I would ask the factory
about this to clarify. I think the XL being a newer design accounts for the
ease of its construction--especially now that we have gone to .025 on the
fuse skins (we no longer need all those gussets). Just stuff to think
about--It is a hard decision.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimbo
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Ready to start project
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com>
Hello,
Ive been lurking here a while and notice alomost all
the current projects are 601XLs. I got a demo flight
in the factory one at Camarillo last year. I was also
given a demo flight in a Jabiru 3300 powered Sonex
taildragger by one of the members of my EAA chapter,
96 at CPM. I am a 200hr private pilot, most time in
152's and some in the Katana. From that experience and
for other reasons, I will not own a Rotax engine.
The bottom line is that after much study I am ready to
buy plans for the tri-gear 601HD and my current engine
choice is Corvair. Is anyone else here building or
flying this same combination?
Sonex - best performance for the buck, but not as
comfortable or stable for long flights or insurable
(per Avemco).
601XL - More complex, heavier and more costly.
601HD - Just right.
Before I order plans, opinions from this group,
please.
Jim
Message 19
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| Subject: | Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I bet poor Jim wishes he never went public with his choice: he is either
getting annoyed with all the second-guessing or wondering if he made the
right choice. ;-)
-- Craig
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601-HDS For Sale Amazing Opportunity |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevin-jones" <kevin-jones@snet.net>
Steve,
How did the sale come out?
kevin jones
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Freeman" <stefree601@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601-HDS For Sale Amazing Opportunity
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Freeman <stefree601@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Michel,
>
> Thank you for your kind words. This is not an easy decision on the
> emotional or financial side of the balance sheet. But life changes and we
> have to roll with it. I didn't think anyone remembered the web site!
>
> Blue skys and wind at your tail!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
> Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
>
> There are days when we have good news such as a new
> "first flight" and there are days we get messages like
> this one. I just saw this this morning.
>
> Steve, when I started my project, your involvement,
> through your web site was a source of inspiration and
> profound help for me. I was consulting your web
> site every day and your construction log was
> invaluable.
>
> I am sorry that you have to abandon this project.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michel
> do not archive
>
> --- Steve Freeman wrote:
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Freeman"
>> To:
>> Subject: Zenith-List: 601-HDS For Sale Amazing
>> Opportunity
>>
>>
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Freeman
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi List,
>> >
>> > I have been quiet for quite some time as life has
>> just gotten too crazy,
>> with a return to school (MBA) kids and work. To top
>> it off I have just
>> received a job offer that will be forcing me to
>> relocate from Phoenix,
>> Arizona to San Diego, California.
>> >
>> > Because of this, and the speed with which all of
>> this is going to happen,
>> I am offering up my 90% completed 601-hds, WITH
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons and roll bars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Frank-
I can appreciate that. Mine's upside down right now!
Maybe it's a phobia I have because in my flying life, (Many moons) I've
never flown a low wing. Need the rafters in the ceiling, you know.
Consider that fair warning. If I ever get this thing in the air, stay
away from Pennsylvania for about 40 hrs!!!!!!!!!!
Bill
P.S. At the rate I'm going, you'd better warn your great-great
grandkids.
Do
Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons and roll bars
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Mine has been inverted several times...But never on the ground....:)
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:16 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons and roll bars
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
> --> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> "The only Zenith I've seen inverted was one that was tied down outside
> in really bad weather."
>
> http://www.ch601.org/stories.htm
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
I just signed up for this list since I am beginning to build a CH801. Am I in the
right place? Seems like most of the info is about 601's. Hmmmmmmmmm, maybe
801 builders don't need any help.
Dave in Salem
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Dave,
Welcome aboard. We don't hear nearly enough from the 801 builders or
questions they might ask. Perhaps it's because
the drawings are better or the people building them are better at it.
Don't know! There have been some superb
801s built and a very few got bent. The problems are much the same
though with Zenith aircraft. You're in the right place
Just comment or ask a question and see what happens.
Best regards,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Dave Ruddiman wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
>I just signed up for this list since I am beginning to build a CH801. Am I in
the right place? Seems like most of the info is about 601's. Hmmmmmmmmm, maybe
801 builders don't need any help.
>
>Dave in Salem
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Ailerons and roll bars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Just keep pulling those rivets Bill it will get there!...Of course on
the RV list that translates into POUNDING rivets....:)
Oh yeas and the 601 will roll quite well...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill+Rose
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons and roll bars
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Frank-
I can appreciate that. Mine's upside down right now!
Maybe it's a phobia I have because in my flying life, (Many moons)
I've never flown a low wing. Need the rafters in the ceiling, you know.
Consider that fair warning. If I ever get this thing in the air,
stay away from Pennsylvania for about 40 hrs!!!!!!!!!!
Bill
P.S. At the rate I'm going, you'd better warn your great-great
grandkids.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons and roll bars
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Mine has been inverted several times...But never on the ground....:)
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
> Payne
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:16 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons and roll bars
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
> --> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> "The only Zenith I've seen inverted was one that was tied down outside
> in really bad weather."
>
> http://www.ch601.org/stories.htm
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | XL with Jabiru Gascolater Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck & Lana Maggart" <cmaggart@sprintmail.com>
I would like to locate the gascolater on my Jabiru powered XL forward of the
firewall. I don't have the engine installed yet and am not sure what space
is available. I have photos of the battery and airbox installations, but
they don't really show that portion of the lower firewall very clearly.
Another concern is the muffler and exhaust pipes.
Where have you all been installing the gascolater?
Chuck Maggart, XL/Jabiru
installing instruments and fuel system
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons and roll bars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
The discussion of the crash-worthiness of the 601 series got me thinking so I checked the AOPA accident database. I only listed accidents involving death or injury - there are others listed on the site where there was damage only. Visit: http://www.aopa.org/asf/ntsb/search_ntsb.cfm
---------------
The recent fatal crash in CA when a wing folded
A fatal midair in NY
MA - Fatal crash when pilot lost control on first flight
IN - Fatal crash when AC flew into a radio tower
OH - Fatal stall / spin in the traffic pattern. CG slightly aft of rear limit.
TX - Fatal stall / spin complicated by loss of engine power
IL -Minor injuries when the canopy of an HD opened on takeoff and the pilot nosed
it over in a pond adjacent the runway.
WA - Serious injuries when engine failed after water takeoff and AC crashed into
trees.
NC - Serious injury when a radiator burst on takeoff filling the cockpit with
smoke and blinding the pilot causing him to crash into trees.
WA - Minor injuries when wake turbulence caused the aircraft to roll on takeoff
with the result that a wing struck the runway.
FL - Minor injuries when engine quit and aircraft flipped after landing in a muddy
field.
UT - Minor injuries following engine failure.
The reports make interesting reading.
Tim Juhl
--------
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - awaiting kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24072#24072
Message 27
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| Subject: | Forming Nose Splice 7A2-3 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
Did anyone have an easy way to form the flaperon nose splice
(7A2-3). In the kit the part is just a plate that needs to be shaped
to match the leading edge of the flaperons.
Doug Kandle
CH701
Boise ID
Rudder & Horiz. Stab. Wings Done
Working on Slats & Flaperons
Jabiru 2200
From complete kit
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | CH-701 wing bottom trailing edge skin trimming at wingtip |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rory Davis <n7cr@bellsouth.net>
Question regarding trimming -
The 7V7-4 drawing shows the TE skin outboard edge trimmed back 35mm at the rear
channel at an angle, while the 7V9 rear skins wing tip trimming table has the
aft edge of the bottom skin 370mm from the centerline of rib #6.
7V7-4 has the distance of the edge from the centerline of rib #6 as:
1620 (length of TE skin)
- 1200 (distance to inboard side of rib #6
-10 (centerline of rib #6)
-35
------
= 375 mm.
That's a 5mm difference, which is what I'm measuring.
The question is, do I continue the straight line on 757-3 detailed on the table
on page 7V9 all the way to the trailing edge, or do I maintain the total TE skin
aft measurement (1620mm) and trim back the fwd edge of the TE skin by 40mm?
Rory
CH-701SP kit
Lacombe, LA
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Forming Nose Splice 7A2-3 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
Clamp a small diameter piece of pipe (or something similar) in a vise. Then
just take the plate with one hand on either side and force it down. If I
remember right, it's only .025 thick and forms real easy. Then minor
bending to fit contour of the flaperon. Drill holes, rivet in place, and
don't forget to scuff with "Green" scotchbrite.
Mike Sinclair N701TD
doug kandle wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
>
> Did anyone have an easy way to form the flaperon nose splice
> (7A2-3). In the kit the part is just a plate that needs to be shaped
> to match the leading edge of the flaperons.
>
> Doug Kandle
> CH701
> Boise ID
> Rudder & Horiz. Stab. Wings Done
> Working on Slats & Flaperons
> Jabiru 2200
> From complete kit
>
>
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