---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/25/06: 46 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:35 AM - Re: 801 (Jay Herron) 2. 06:47 AM - Re: Ailerons and roll bars (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 3. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: 801 (Dave Ruddiman) 4. 07:31 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Jimbo) 5. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Ailerons and roll bars (Bill+Rose) 6. 08:15 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Jimbo) 7. 09:02 AM - Re: 801 (Jay Herron) 8. 09:10 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Darrell Haas) 9. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: 801 (Dave Ruddiman) 10. 10:16 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 11. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: 801 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 12. 10:50 AM - Re: Ready to start project (Paul Mulwitz) 13. 11:33 AM - Rivet gun Pressure (Levonowich, Michael) 14. 11:33 AM - Rudder hinge bracket XL (Ken Lilja) 15. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: 801 (Dave Ruddiman) 16. 12:06 PM - 801 - Subaru engine (Dave Ruddiman) 17. 12:07 PM - Re: Rivet gun Pressure (Graham Kirby) 18. 12:50 PM - Re: Rivet gun Pressure (Paul Mulwitz) 19. 01:01 PM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 20. 01:01 PM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (LarryMcFarland) 21. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: 801 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 22. 01:12 PM - Re: Ready to start project (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 23. 01:15 PM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 24. 01:33 PM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 25. 01:57 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: Re: 801 (Bruce Bockius) 26. 01:57 PM - Re: Rivet gun Pressure (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 27. 02:04 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: Ready to start project (Bruce Bockius) 28. 02:18 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: Re: 801 (Dave Ruddiman) 29. 02:29 PM - Re: Rudder hinge bracket XL (Al Young) 30. 02:35 PM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (Dave Ruddiman) 31. 02:47 PM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (LarryMcFarland) 32. 02:55 PM - Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine (Cory Emberson) 33. 03:05 PM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 34. 03:07 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: Ready to start project (Paul Mulwitz) 35. 03:10 PM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 36. 03:11 PM - Re: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 37. 03:19 PM - Re: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine (Cory Emberson) 38. 04:34 PM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (LarryMcFarland) 39. 05:30 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: Ready to start project (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 40. 05:37 PM - Re: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 41. 05:37 PM - Cortec 373 and airframe ground continuity (Rory Davis) 42. 05:37 PM - Re: How is the Rebuild (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 43. 05:46 PM - Re: Rivet gun Pressure (Edward Moody II) 44. 06:12 PM - Re: Cortec 373 and airframe ground continuity (Tim Juhl) 45. 06:25 PM - Re: Rivet gun Pressure (Matt & Jo) 46. 07:41 PM - Atlanta Area Live with your Airplane (Mark Sorenson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:45 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 From: "Jay Herron" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" Dave, You are in the right place. I am also building a 801 and have occasionally had to ask a question or two of this forum. I've always recieved replys on and off the list. So welcome aboard! Where are you located? I am from Salem Ohio which is in the northeast part of the state. Make sure you add yourself to the map so we can find each other: http://www.frappr.com/zenith801 Jay Herron 93.5% complete (wiring now) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24093#24093 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:50 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons and roll bars --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Bill, what you say about a roll bar and inverted landings is a real concern. I did consider such a modification and discounted it because of the weight and the location that weight would have to be. If I had an 0-200 or 235 instead of the lighter 3300 Jab the balance would not be an issue, but an additional 15-20 pounds of steel might. I read over a couple hundred NTSB reports to learn how many fatalities occurred because of inverted trapped landings and just could not justify the extra effort and performance on a tricycle plane. On the other hand, if I was flying a tail dragger I would have a roll bar. Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:53 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Hi Jay, I am in the West Coast Salem (Oregon). I'm not to concerned with the assembly of the kit, but even though I have just started, I am looking at engines. What are you using? I think I am pretty good at the construction part, but I don't want to go hunting down parts or have to fabricate pieces and everything associated with that end. As of right now, I will probably use a Lycoming, but it is pretty early in the process to a definite decision. Dave in Salem, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Herron" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:29 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" > > Dave, > You are in the right place. I am also building a 801 and have > occasionally had to ask a question or two of this forum. I've always > recieved replys on and off the list. So welcome aboard! > > Where are you located? I am from Salem Ohio which is in the northeast > part of the state. Make sure you add yourself to the map so we can find > each other: http://www.frappr.com/zenith801 > > Jay Herron > 93.5% complete (wiring now) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24093#24093 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:40 AM PST US From: Jimbo Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo Quite the opposite. This discussion is exactly what I wanted. This is really helping me a lot. Keep it coming. My decision is not final and have not ruled out the XL. Jim --- Craig Payne wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > I bet poor Jim wishes he never went public with his > choice: he is either > getting annoyed with all the second-guessing or > wondering if he made the > right choice. ;-) > > -- Craig > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:37 AM PST US From: "Bill+Rose" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Ailerons and roll bars --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill+Rose" Tim- This is the exact situation I was talking about. If you've done a good job, you'll be making an emergency landing nose-high at minimum airspeed, but if the nose wheel catches a furrow or chuck hole when it comes down either the nose fork will either collapse or you'll turn turtle. Impact in an inverted spin and nothing will save you but dumb luck. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Juhl" Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:37 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Ailerons and roll bars > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > > FL - Minor injuries when engine quit and aircraft flipped after landing in > a muddy field. > -------- > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - awaiting kit > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24072#24072 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:04 AM PST US From: Jimbo Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo --- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank > George (Corvallis)" > > Hello Jim, > > First off check out the insurance costs...I did'nt > and got a nasty > surprise when I found that for a while the Subaru > conversions were > almost uninsurable!...Now we have found ram > Performance who can stop the > valve guides falling out of the heads these > insurance issues have gone > away. Not saying the Corvair is a bad choice just > make sure you know > what you are getting into. I only talked to Avemco so far. They carry my renters insurance and are a direct writer, not broker. They do not yet insure the Sonex, but do insure the 601. Alternative engines raise the rate, but they will insure them. I need to talk to a broker as well. > > Your engine comment is interesting about not owning > a Rotax...Why not? The FBO who rented me the Katana was sold on the lower costs compared to a tradtional aircooled direct-drive setup. Except for lower fuel burn, it was more expensive because it never went to TBO and cost a lot more to overhaul than was promised. Diamond Aircraft gave up on Rotax and went with Continental. I also cannot tolerate the five minute limitation on full power due to gearbox overheating issues. Rotax has had slipper clutch problems, valve keeper problems, severe internal corrosion problems, several rocker arm redesigns, and the list goes on. I get to see all the SB's because I know a Rotax owner. Getting 80-100hp reliably out of 80 cubic inches just isnt possible. With the latest crankshaft fiasco, even Lycoming cannot be trusted. The owner always pays for the vendors mistakes. William Wynne seems to be able to take care of his customers better than these big companies can. There are two Corvair engines currently under construction at my EAA chapter, so I will have some practical knowlege available by the time I have to commit to a powerplant choice. Jim ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:11 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 From: "Jay Herron" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" Dave, I have mounted up a Lycoming O-360. I chose it because it is a proven system with support from Zenith and I am new to building with little time to experiment with alternative choices. After I get it flying, I may work at building a Chevy or Ford powered engine similar to Ben Haas's: http://www.haaspowerair.com/ But right now I want to fly more than I want to build!!!! I would highly recommend reading through Gary Liming's website. It was very helpful to me in the building process: http://www.liming.org/ch801/index.html Jay Herron Salem, Ohio Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24154#24154 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:01 AM PST US From: "Darrell Haas" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ready to start project --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Darrell Haas" Jim, I haven't made up my mind on what to make. I am enjoying all this information. Thanks, Darrell Troutdale, Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimbo" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:29 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo > > Quite the opposite. This discussion is exactly what I > wanted. This is really helping me a lot. Keep it > coming. My decision is not final and have not ruled > out the XL. > > Jim > > --- Craig Payne wrote: > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" >> >> >> I bet poor Jim wishes he never went public with his >> choice: he is either >> getting annoyed with all the second-guessing or >> wondering if he made the >> right choice. ;-) >> >> -- Craig >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:59 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Jay, I did read through Liming's website. He has some good ideas. Looks like he spent as much time on his computer documenting as he did building. I am probably going to go the Lycoming route for exactly the same reasons you are. Having a V8 is really intriguing, but I, like you, just want to build the plane and fly it and not experiment. I haven't ridden in an 801 yet. Have you? I'm sure 180 HP is plenty. And if I want to spend more money, a constant speed prop would really make it perform. So, when I buy an engine, I will get the correct model so I could ad a CS prop when and if I want one. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Herron" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" > > Dave, > I have mounted up a Lycoming O-360. I chose it because it is a proven > system with support from Zenith and I am new to building with little time > to experiment with alternative choices. After I get it flying, I may work > at building a Chevy or Ford powered engine similar to Ben Haas's: > http://www.haaspowerair.com/ But right now I want to fly more than I want > to build!!!! > > I would highly recommend reading through Gary Liming's website. It was > very helpful to me in the building process: > http://www.liming.org/ch801/index.html > > Jay Herron > Salem, Ohio > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24154#24154 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:01 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yes but there have been great experiences with the Lycomming clones, from Superior, Mattituck and Aerosport. Mattituck at least is now dealing with smaller Continental motors. Might be worth a look. These are new engines too, remember that old engines have gone some way through their fatigues lives. In other words if you vibrate something hard enough and long enough it will break. Fourtunatly components are designed to break well after they have worn out...Usually! So the old Subaru is not that bad of a choice after all then....:) Frank HDS (I have a buyer!) 393 hours Stratus soob Frank > Hello Jim, > > First off check out the insurance costs...I did'nt and got a nasty > surprise when I found that for a while the Subaru conversions were > almost uninsurable!...Now we have found ram Performance who can stop > the valve guides falling out of the heads these insurance issues have > gone away. Not saying the Corvair is a bad choice just make sure you > know what you are getting into. I only talked to Avemco so far. They carry my renters insurance and are a direct writer, not broker. They do not yet insure the Sonex, but do insure the 601. Alternative engines raise the rate, but they will insure them. I need to talk to a broker as well. > > Your engine comment is interesting about not owning a Rotax...Why not? The FBO who rented me the Katana was sold on the lower costs compared to a tradtional aircooled direct-drive setup. Except for lower fuel burn, it was more expensive because it never went to TBO and cost a lot more to overhaul than was promised. Diamond Aircraft gave up on Rotax and went with Continental. I also cannot tolerate the five minute limitation on full power due to gearbox overheating issues. Rotax has had slipper clutch problems, valve keeper problems, severe internal corrosion problems, several rocker arm redesigns, and the list goes on. I get to see all the SB's because I know a Rotax owner. Getting 80-100hp reliably out of 80 cubic inches just isnt possible. With the latest crankshaft fiasco, even Lycoming cannot be trusted. The owner always pays for the vendors mistakes. William Wynne seems to be able to take care of his customers better than these big companies can. There are two Corvair engines currently under construction at my EAA chapter, so I will have some practical knowlege available by the time I have to commit to a powerplant choice. Jim ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 801 From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hello Dave, I am in Corvallis! I built a 601 and am finishing up an RV7a. I was considering a Soob for the RV but the cooling drag put me off...But in a slow airplane like the 801 the Eggenfelner soob might be just the ticket. I would not bother with C/S prop but put a Warp drive ground ajustable on it. I think it will turn out to a relatively economical package (very cheap rebuild and parts costs) and a very modern engine pacage...Its also brand new or slightly used. I know there is one 801 with an egg on the front Just a thought Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" --> Hi Jay, I am in the West Coast Salem (Oregon). I'm not to concerned with the assembly of the kit, but even though I have just started, I am looking at engines. What are you using? I think I am pretty good at the construction part, but I don't want to go hunting down parts or have to fabricate pieces and everything associated with that end. As of right now, I will probably use a Lycoming, but it is pretty early in the process to a definite decision. Dave in Salem, Oregon ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:00 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >(I have a buyer!) Hi Frank, That was a quick sale. I am just curious -- is you buyer interested in LSA or is that a non-issue? Paul XL wings ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:41 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet gun Pressure From: "Levonowich, Michael" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Levonowich, Michael" Been following the list for awhile and just picked up my 601 Kit from the factory. I have the Harbor Freight Rivet Gun and was wondering what pressure you initial use. Anyone else's experience with this type of gun and there recommendations. Mike N244ML ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:41 AM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder hinge bracket XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Lilja Hi, When do you attach the rudder hinge bracket (6T4-3) to the rudder? What drawing / photo guide showes this? Thanks! Ken Lilja ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:41 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Hi Frank, I know a guy that built a 601 that lived in Independence and seemed like he had a lot of trouble with the company that he bought his Subaru conversion engine from. I don't remember which one though and don't want to start any rumors. I have seen the Subarus and they look good but that's all I really know about them. I really would like a firewall forward kit. I don't want to spend all my time looking for or making parts. I keep my plane (Chief) in Independence in one of the South hangars. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:16 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Hello Dave, I am in Corvallis! > > I built a 601 and am finishing up an RV7a. I was considering a Soob for > the RV but the cooling drag put me off...But in a slow airplane like the > 801 the Eggenfelner soob might be just the ticket. > > I would not bother with C/S prop but put a Warp drive ground ajustable > on it. I think it will turn out to a relatively economical package (very > cheap rebuild and parts costs) and a very modern engine pacage...Its > also brand new or slightly used. > > I know there is one 801 with an egg on the front > > Just a thought > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave > Ruddiman > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:19 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > --> > > Hi Jay, > > I am in the West Coast Salem (Oregon). I'm not to concerned with the > assembly of the kit, but even though I have just started, I am looking > at engines. What are you using? I think I am pretty good at the > construction part, but I don't want to go hunting down parts or have to > fabricate pieces and everything associated with that end. As of right > now, I will probably use a Lycoming, but it is pretty early in the > process to a definite decision. > > Dave in Salem, Oregon > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:50 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone and looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty much into RV's. Thanks, Dave in Oregon ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:59 PM PST US From: "Graham Kirby" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivet gun Pressure --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" Mike, I use about 40psi measured at the compressor. Nice and low to avoid the risk of the riveter jumping when the rivet stem breaks. Graham 601HD -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Levonowich, Michael Been following the list for awhile and just picked up my 601 Kit from the factory. I have the Harbor Freight Rivet Gun and was wondering what pressure you initial use. Anyone else's experience with this type of gun and there recommendations. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:04 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet gun Pressure --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Mike, I also use the smaller Harbor Freight rivet gun. I keep my compressor set around 80 psi. Have fun, Paul XL wings >Been following the list for awhile and just picked up my 601 Kit from >the factory. I have the Harbor Freight Rivet Gun and was wondering what >pressure you initial use. Anyone else's experience with this type of >gun and there recommendations. > > >Mike > > N244ML > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:13 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yup (I have a Stratus on my 601 HDS) and I considered a Eggenfener for my RV7a. Personally I could not recommend a Stratus...Well I could but I would buy it without the cylinder heads. Then I would have Ram Ferformance build me the cylinder heads, but then you might as well have Ram build the whole thing. They have some very nice packages now. You did not mention which plane you are building. The 601 (and 701 just)701 will work with the EA 81 engines available from Stratus and Ram Performance. The 801 and possibly a 640 will work with the Eggenfelner packages as these are based on the larger soob motors. The Eggs have a very good reputation, the reason I did not go that way on the RV was because I could not get a good read on how much cooling drag they caused and how much they reduced cruise speed...On an 801 I think this effect would be minimal. On the 601 the Stratus package (after MUCH heartache and re-engineering) is now superb. Give me a call sometime. Frank in Corvallis 541-745-6386 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 12:05 PM Subject: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" --> Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone and looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty much into RV's. Thanks, Dave in Oregon ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:13 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Dave, I've got a 1.8 liter Stratus Subaru on my 601HDS and I'm really pleased with it. An 801 would probably take a larger 150-160 hp Subaru from the 2.2 liter group. Stratus, NSI, Eggenfelder and Ram Performance were the most prolific models around til recently. Eggenfelder is very pricey, NSI is hard to do business with directly or indirectly, Stratus has a great product as does Ram Performance. Subarus are good product top to bottom and reflect considerably lower prices for repair and economy of operation. Lots of heavy gyro-planes (1000 lb +) use them because they take the abuse of hard running indefinitely without complaint. Learning how a water- cooled engine is best set up used to be a problem, but there's enough info available to get past that nowdays. One of the nicest things about the Subaru is the cabin heat available if you divert coolant to that purpose. You can have a 65-degree cabin at sub freezing temps. We've got a 701 in our area with an EA-81 Subaru and Stratus Redrive on it and it climbs out really well. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Dave Ruddiman wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > >Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone and looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty much into RV's. > >Thanks, >Dave in Oregon > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:36 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 801 From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" There are many different soob packages. The companies that get my recommendation are Ram Performance and Eggenfelner, based on extensive research and much pain! There is an 801 with an Egg...I saw it on the Egg website. Jan is a busy guy and his communication style tends to put some folk off, but from whay I have heard the packages are superb. Call Egg gain and ask them for a contact email for the 801 package that one of their builders is doing (or maybe even flying). Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" --> Hi Frank, I know a guy that built a 601 that lived in Independence and seemed like he had a lot of trouble with the company that he bought his Subaru conversion engine from. I don't remember which one though and don't want to start any rumors. I have seen the Subarus and they look good but that's all I really know about them. I really would like a firewall forward kit. I don't want to spend all my time looking for or making parts. I keep my plane (Chief) in Independence in one of the South hangars. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:16 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Hello Dave, I am in Corvallis! > > I built a 601 and am finishing up an RV7a. I was considering a Soob for > the RV but the cooling drag put me off...But in a slow airplane like the > 801 the Eggenfelner soob might be just the ticket. > > I would not bother with C/S prop but put a Warp drive ground ajustable > on it. I think it will turn out to a relatively economical package (very > cheap rebuild and parts costs) and a very modern engine pacage...Its > also brand new or slightly used. > > I know there is one 801 with an egg on the front > > Just a thought > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave > Ruddiman > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:19 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > --> > > Hi Jay, > > I am in the West Coast Salem (Oregon). I'm not to concerned with the > assembly of the kit, but even though I have just started, I am looking > at engines. What are you using? I think I am pretty good at the > construction part, but I don't want to go hunting down parts or have to > fabricate pieces and everything associated with that end. As of right > now, I will probably use a Lycoming, but it is pretty early in the > process to a definite decision. > > Dave in Salem, Oregon > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:55 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" It was (is being) sold as a Sport Pilot compliant airplane...Not an LSA...But as an experimental that does comply. Yes the SP thing is a BIG factor in selling the airplane, which is why I went out and carefully measured gross weight stall again. Needless to say I was delighted with the results. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:47 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz --> >(I have a buyer!) Hi Frank, That was a quick sale. I am just curious -- is you buyer interested in LSA or is that a non-issue? Paul XL wings ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:41 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Wait a minute Larry...You upgraded your cylinder heads before you flew your Stratus conversion if I remember?...With that proviso yes I would argue it's a wonderful engine/redrive package...But not without that mod...Oh, and the ignition system really needs to be upgraded, but that is a fairly small job. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland --> Dave, I've got a 1.8 liter Stratus Subaru on my 601HDS and I'm really pleased with it. An 801 would probably take a larger 150-160 hp Subaru from the 2.2 liter group. Stratus, NSI, Eggenfelder and Ram Performance were the most prolific models around til recently. Eggenfelder is very pricey, NSI is hard to do business with directly or indirectly, Stratus has a great product as does Ram Performance. Subarus are good product top to bottom and reflect considerably lower prices for repair and economy of operation. Lots of heavy gyro-planes (1000 lb +) use them because they take the abuse of hard running indefinitely without complaint. Learning how a water- cooled engine is best set up used to be a problem, but there's enough info available to get past that nowdays. One of the nicest things about the Subaru is the cabin heat available if you divert coolant to that purpose. You can have a 65-degree cabin at sub freezing temps. We've got a 701 in our area with an EA-81 Subaru and Stratus Redrive on it and it climbs out really well. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Dave Ruddiman wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >--> > >Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone and looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty much into RV's. > >Thanks, >Dave in Oregon > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:46 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Oh yeah....well now I'm replying to my own emails...how sad is that?...:) The Eggs are based on the 2.5l to 3.0l H6 engine...some with superchargers. These are in the 220HP range and they are capable of MUCH more reliable power than that in Dune buggies etc...But not in airplanes! I think it would be a superb motor for an 801 Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:18 PM PST US From: "Bruce Bockius" Subject: RE: [aviation] Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius" That was an NSI Subaru. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 12:32 PM Subject: [aviation] Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Hi Frank, I know a guy that built a 601 that lived in Independence and seemed like he had a lot of trouble with the company that he bought his Subaru conversion engine from. I don't remember which one though and don't want to start any rumors. I have seen the Subarus and they look good but that's all I really know about them. I really would like a firewall forward kit. I don't want to spend all my time looking for or making parts. I keep my plane (Chief) in Independence in one of the South hangars. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:16 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Hello Dave, I am in Corvallis! > > I built a 601 and am finishing up an RV7a. I was considering a Soob for > the RV but the cooling drag put me off...But in a slow airplane like the > 801 the Eggenfelner soob might be just the ticket. > > I would not bother with C/S prop but put a Warp drive ground ajustable > on it. I think it will turn out to a relatively economical package (very > cheap rebuild and parts costs) and a very modern engine pacage...Its > also brand new or slightly used. > > I know there is one 801 with an egg on the front > > Just a thought > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave > Ruddiman > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:19 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > --> > > Hi Jay, > > I am in the West Coast Salem (Oregon). I'm not to concerned with the > assembly of the kit, but even though I have just started, I am looking > at engines. What are you using? I think I am pretty good at the > construction part, but I don't want to go hunting down parts or have to > fabricate pieces and everything associated with that end. As of right > now, I will probably use a Lycoming, but it is pretty early in the > process to a definite decision. > > Dave in Salem, Oregon > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:18 PM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet gun Pressure --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Hello Mike: Regardless of what pneumatic gun you have use a properly modified nosepiece that Zenith has designed and use the minimum air pressure that pulls the rivet cleanly and with as little 'bounceback' as possible. On my Zenith gun I start around 45 psi or so and work up if necessary. If you are not using lubricated air don't forget a few drops of air tool oil every now & then - especially with your air drill(s). Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) do not archive In a message dated 3/25/2006 2:34:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, mjl244@kenoshapolice.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Levonowich, Michael" Been following the list for awhile and just picked up my 601 Kit from the factory. I have the Harbor Freight Rivet Gun and was wondering what pressure you initial use. Anyone else's experience with this type of gun and there recommendations. Mike N244ML ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:37 PM PST US From: "Bruce Bockius" Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius" Just a couple comments... --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez - The XL have better performance. If by performance you mean cruise speed, then true. An HD will likely have better short field t/o and landing performance, a higher service ceiling and better climb rate. All planes are compromises ;) - Header tank make for easy wing removal and reattachment but wing tank are safer. Im uneasy to the idea of a gasoline tank over my feet. You can get wing tanks and do away with the header tank on any of the 601 models. - Im 6 with disproportional long legs, the XL have better leg room. There is an option to build the 601HD/HDS 2" longer. I believe this is standard on the XL. -Bruce/601HD/TDO/Stratus/487.2 hrs ***************************** Bruce Bockius Black Forest, CO, USA bruce@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com http://www.WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:12 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: [aviation] Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" You are right. Now I remember. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Bockius" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:54 PM Subject: RE: [aviation] Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius" > > > That was an NSI Subaru. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 12:32 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: [aviation] Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > > > Hi Frank, > > I know a guy that built a 601 that lived in Independence and seemed like > he > had a lot of trouble with the company that he bought his Subaru conversion > engine from. I don't remember which one though and don't want to start any > rumors. I have seen the Subarus and they look good but that's all I really > know about them. I really would like a firewall forward kit. I don't want > to > > spend all my time looking for or making parts. I keep my plane (Chief) in > Independence in one of the South hangars. > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:16 AM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 801 > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" >> >> >> Hello Dave, I am in Corvallis! >> >> I built a 601 and am finishing up an RV7a. I was considering a Soob for >> the RV but the cooling drag put me off...But in a slow airplane like the >> 801 the Eggenfelner soob might be just the ticket. >> >> I would not bother with C/S prop but put a Warp drive ground ajustable >> on it. I think it will turn out to a relatively economical package (very >> cheap rebuild and parts costs) and a very modern engine pacage...Its >> also brand new or slightly used. >> >> I know there is one 801 with an egg on the front >> >> Just a thought >> >> Frank >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave >> Ruddiman >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:19 AM >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801 >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >> --> >> >> Hi Jay, >> >> I am in the West Coast Salem (Oregon). I'm not to concerned with the >> assembly of the kit, but even though I have just started, I am looking >> at engines. What are you using? I think I am pretty good at the >> construction part, but I don't want to go hunting down parts or have to >> fabricate pieces and everything associated with that end. As of right >> now, I will probably use a Lycoming, but it is pretty early in the >> process to a definite decision. >> >> Dave in Salem, Oregon >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:11 PM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder hinge bracket XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" Ken- My drawings are old, but wait til you are ready to attach the rudder to the fuselage. before drilling the holes for the upper hinge assembly (6T4-3 and 6F4-3).You can be very accurate by waiting. My drawing dated 09/01 shows the attachment on page 6-S-5. Regards- Al Young -N601AY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Lilja" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:29 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder hinge bracket XL > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Lilja > > Hi, > When do you attach the rudder hinge bracket (6T4-3) to the rudder? > What drawing / photo guide showes this? > Thanks! > Ken Lilja > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:57 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" I looked on the Ram website and it looks like they only have a 140 HP engine, so I sent them an email. Does anyone know if they have a 180 HP engine? Dave in Salem ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Wait a minute Larry...You upgraded your cylinder heads before you flew > your Stratus conversion if I remember?...With that proviso yes I would > argue it's a wonderful engine/redrive package...But not without that > mod...Oh, and the ignition system really needs to be upgraded, but that > is a fairly small job. > > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > LarryMcFarland > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:00 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > --> > > Dave, > I've got a 1.8 liter Stratus Subaru on my 601HDS and I'm really pleased > with it. An 801 would probably take a larger 150-160 hp Subaru from the > 2.2 liter group. Stratus, NSI, Eggenfelder and Ram Performance were the > most prolific models around til recently. > Eggenfelder is very pricey, NSI is hard to do business with directly or > indirectly, Stratus has a great product as does Ram Performance. > > Subarus are good product top to bottom and reflect considerably lower > prices for repair and economy of operation. Lots of heavy gyro-planes > (1000 lb +) use them because they take the abuse of hard running > indefinitely without complaint. Learning how a water- cooled engine is > best set up used to be a problem, but there's enough info available to > get past that nowdays. One of the nicest things about the Subaru is the > cabin heat available if you divert coolant to that purpose. You can > have a 65-degree cabin at sub freezing temps. > > We've got a 701 in our area with an EA-81 Subaru and Stratus Redrive on > it and it climbs out really well. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > Dave Ruddiman wrote: > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >>--> >> >>Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating > one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone and > looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty > much into RV's. >> >>Thanks, >>Dave in Oregon >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:27 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland You're right Frank, I did upgrade my heads per Ram Performance after only 10-minutes of running it and before flying it. The cost was not a problem considering the benefit. I also improved cooling with an air intake and louvers that helped airflow. The other thing was making an interlink that connected the carburetter throttle shafts to get one solid cable to operate the throttles same as a Cessna to eliminate springs and adjusting of dual cables to the carbs. I also put in dual ignition within the distributor in addition to the flywheel pickup electronic ignition. Then combine that with the Aeroelectric wiring diagram for dual batteries, dual pumps, main, essential and hot buses, etc. The Stratus is finally outfitted right for a 601. Some of these areas like carb cables and springs and the Rabbit radiator were Zenith origin, but the Stratus Subaru was still worth the extra effort. Larry Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >Wait a minute Larry...You upgraded your cylinder heads before you flew >your Stratus conversion if I remember?...With that proviso yes I would >argue it's a wonderful engine/redrive package...But not without that >mod...Oh, and the ignition system really needs to be upgraded, but that >is a fairly small job. > > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >LarryMcFarland >Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:00 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland >--> > >Dave, >I've got a 1.8 liter Stratus Subaru on my 601HDS and I'm really pleased >with it. An 801 would probably take a larger 150-160 hp Subaru from the >2.2 liter group. Stratus, NSI, Eggenfelder and Ram Performance were the >most prolific models around til recently. >Eggenfelder is very pricey, NSI is hard to do business with directly or >indirectly, Stratus has a great product as does Ram Performance. > >Subarus are good product top to bottom and reflect considerably lower >prices for repair and economy of operation. Lots of heavy gyro-planes >(1000 lb +) use them because they take the abuse of hard running >indefinitely without complaint. Learning how a water- cooled engine is >best set up used to be a problem, but there's enough info available to >get past that nowdays. One of the nicest things about the Subaru is the >cabin heat available if you divert coolant to that purpose. You can >have a 65-degree cabin at sub freezing temps. > >We've got a 701 in our area with an EA-81 Subaru and Stratus Redrive on >it and it climbs out really well. > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > >Dave Ruddiman wrote: > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >>--> >> >>Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating >> >> >one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone and >looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty >much into RV's. > > >>Thanks, >>Dave in Oregon >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:15 PM PST US From: Cory Emberson Subject: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cory Emberson Hello all, I would like to hear from you if you're a builder who has successfully installed and flown an alternative engine in your plane. I'm compiling a builder's roundup for Kitplanes magazine, and am looking for an installation that's flown for a minimum of 300 hours, and is currently flying. For the builders that we profile, the magazine will also be able to pay you $100 for the write-up. I'll be at Sun 'n Fun until late morning on Friday (April 7), so if you fly in, I'd be happy to take the photos there. If not, we would also need at least 2-3 good photos, including a close-up of the engine and an overall shot of the aircraft. Additional photos would be great, and all photos will be returned. If you have digital photos, it is very important that they be high-resolution, at least 300 dpi. I have a list of specific areas to address if you'd like to participate, but we can handle that off-line. Please feel free to contact me off-line at: bootless (at) earthlink (dot) net (my despammed email address). Thank you so much! best, Cory Emberson Contributing Editor Kitplanes Magazine > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:47 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Thought so, The tone of your message sort of minimised the valve guide problem of the stratus motor in my mind...And of course with three in flight valve guide failures (two resulting in Mayday calls) I am a little more "Aware" of how big of an issue this can be...:) Appologise if I came on a bit strong.. Incidently Larry, Do you still have your mold for the Rabbit radiator intake? It looks like I am selling the plane to a gentlemen in Alabama and I have recommended a future upgrade that copies your installation...Wondered if you might be willing to "rent" it out so to speak?...:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:46 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland --> You're right Frank, I did upgrade my heads per Ram Performance after only 10-minutes of running it and before flying it. The cost was not a problem considering the benefit. I also improved cooling with an air intake and louvers that helped airflow. The other thing was making an interlink that connected the carburetter throttle shafts to get one solid cable to operate the throttles same as a Cessna to eliminate springs and adjusting of dual cables to the carbs. I also put in dual ignition within the distributor in addition to the flywheel pickup electronic ignition. Then combine that with the Aeroelectric wiring diagram for dual batteries, dual pumps, main, essential and hot buses, etc. The Stratus is finally outfitted right for a 601. Some of these areas like carb cables and springs and the Rabbit radiator were Zenith origin, but the Stratus Subaru was still worth the extra effort. Larry Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >Wait a minute Larry...You upgraded your cylinder heads before you flew >your Stratus conversion if I remember?...With that proviso yes I would >argue it's a wonderful engine/redrive package...But not without that >mod...Oh, and the ignition system really needs to be upgraded, but that >is a fairly small job. > > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >LarryMcFarland >Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:00 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland >--> > >Dave, >I've got a 1.8 liter Stratus Subaru on my 601HDS and I'm really pleased >with it. An 801 would probably take a larger 150-160 hp Subaru from the >2.2 liter group. Stratus, NSI, Eggenfelder and Ram Performance were the >most prolific models around til recently. >Eggenfelder is very pricey, NSI is hard to do business with directly or >indirectly, Stratus has a great product as does Ram Performance. > >Subarus are good product top to bottom and reflect considerably lower >prices for repair and economy of operation. Lots of heavy gyro-planes >(1000 lb +) use them because they take the abuse of hard running >indefinitely without complaint. Learning how a water- cooled engine is >best set up used to be a problem, but there's enough info available to >get past that nowdays. One of the nicest things about the Subaru is the >cabin heat available if you divert coolant to that purpose. You can >have a 65-degree cabin at sub freezing temps. > >We've got a 701 in our area with an EA-81 Subaru and Stratus Redrive on >it and it climbs out really well. > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > >Dave Ruddiman wrote: > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >>--> >> >>Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating >> >> >one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone and >looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty >much into RV's. > > >>Thanks, >>Dave in Oregon >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:34 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >There is an option to build the 601HD/HDS 2" longer. I believe this is >standard on the XL. Actually, according to ZAC's web pages, the XL is a full 12 inches longer than the HD/HDS. Paul XL wings -------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:17 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I don't believe so. Ron Carr specialises in the EA 81 motor (1.8L) you really want the 2.2, 2.5 or 3.0 (six cylinder) motor. As I said from the desk research (weeks of it) I would go with an Egg assuming you can get an engine mount...I even sent him a deposit for the RV but went with the Lycoming based on potential cruise speed loss. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:35 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" --> I looked on the Ram website and it looks like they only have a 140 HP engine, so I sent them an email. Does anyone know if they have a 180 HP engine? Dave in Salem ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Wait a minute Larry...You upgraded your cylinder heads before you flew > your Stratus conversion if I remember?...With that proviso yes I would > argue it's a wonderful engine/redrive package...But not without that > mod...Oh, and the ignition system really needs to be upgraded, but that > is a fairly small job. > > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > LarryMcFarland > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:00 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > --> > > Dave, > I've got a 1.8 liter Stratus Subaru on my 601HDS and I'm really pleased > with it. An 801 would probably take a larger 150-160 hp Subaru from the > 2.2 liter group. Stratus, NSI, Eggenfelder and Ram Performance were the > most prolific models around til recently. > Eggenfelder is very pricey, NSI is hard to do business with directly or > indirectly, Stratus has a great product as does Ram Performance. > > Subarus are good product top to bottom and reflect considerably lower > prices for repair and economy of operation. Lots of heavy gyro-planes > (1000 lb +) use them because they take the abuse of hard running > indefinitely without complaint. Learning how a water- cooled engine is > best set up used to be a problem, but there's enough info available to > get past that nowdays. One of the nicest things about the Subaru is the > cabin heat available if you divert coolant to that purpose. You can > have a 65-degree cabin at sub freezing temps. > > We've got a 701 in our area with an EA-81 Subaru and Stratus Redrive on > it and it climbs out really well. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > Dave Ruddiman wrote: > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >>--> >> >>Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating > one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone and > looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty > much into RV's. >> >>Thanks, >>Dave in Oregon >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:50 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hmmm...How about ones that have not been so sucessful but been eventually sorted?...:) Do not archive Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory Emberson Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:53 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cory Emberson --> Hello all, I would like to hear from you if you're a builder who has successfully installed and flown an alternative engine in your plane. I'm compiling a builder's roundup for Kitplanes magazine, and am looking for an installation that's flown for a minimum of 300 hours, and is currently flying. For the builders that we profile, the magazine will also be able to pay you $100 for the write-up. I'll be at Sun 'n Fun until late morning on Friday (April 7), so if you fly in, I'd be happy to take the photos there. If not, we would also need at least 2-3 good photos, including a close-up of the engine and an overall shot of the aircraft. Additional photos would be great, and all photos will be returned. If you have digital photos, it is very important that they be high-resolution, at least 300 dpi. I have a list of specific areas to address if you'd like to participate, but we can handle that off-line. Please feel free to contact me off-line at: bootless (at) earthlink (dot) net (my despammed email address). Thank you so much! best, Cory Emberson Contributing Editor Kitplanes Magazine > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:51 PM PST US From: Cory Emberson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cory Emberson Hi Frank, Made me smile! Perhaps that can be part of an interpretive sculpture...? :-) Cory Do not archive Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >Hmmm...How about ones that have not been so sucessful but been >eventually sorted?...:) > >Do not archive > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory >Emberson >Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:53 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes >Magazine > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Cory Emberson >--> > >Hello all, > >I would like to hear from you if you're a builder who has successfully >installed and flown an alternative engine in your plane. I'm compiling a >builder's roundup for Kitplanes magazine, and am looking for an >installation that's flown for a minimum of 300 hours, and is currently >flying. > >For the builders that we profile, the magazine will also be able to pay >you $100 for the write-up. I'll be at Sun 'n Fun until late morning on >Friday (April 7), so if you fly in, I'd be happy to take the photos >there. If not, we would also need at least 2-3 good photos, including a >close-up of the engine and an overall shot of the aircraft. Additional >photos would be great, and all photos will be returned. If you have >digital photos, it is very important that they be high-resolution, at >least 300 dpi. I have a list of specific areas to address if you'd like >to participate, but we can handle that off-line. Please feel free to >contact me off-line at: bootless (at) earthlink (dot) net (my despammed >email address). > >Thank you so much! > >best, >Cory Emberson >Contributing Editor >Kitplanes Magazine > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:04 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Frank, I thoroughly appreciate your sensitivity to the valve guide problem. I believe Mykal doesn't appreciate the fact that a conventional automotive-rebuild at the valve guides wasn't a good idea for customers or business. He seems unable to contractually make product corrections to fix this. I like the package, especially the redrive and just jumped past these problems thanks to your advice. It's no big deal only when you haven't had to make unexpected landings for valve guide failures. Yes, I've still got the intake mold and the form and will be making a few of these later this summer to catch up with requests after my 601 gets paint. He's welcome to order one from me at $200. It takes about 10 hours over two days to make one intake. I'd be flattered by anyone that decided to copy what I've done. I wish there were an easier process for this one. The louver drawing is available for the asking and they're easy to make. Larry McFarland do not archive Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >Thought so, > >The tone of your message sort of minimised the valve guide problem of >the stratus motor in my mind...And of course with three in flight valve >guide failures (two resulting in Mayday calls) I am a little more >"Aware" of how big of an issue this can be...:) > >Appologise if I came on a bit strong.. > >Incidently Larry, Do you still have your mold for the Rabbit radiator >intake? It looks like I am selling the plane to a gentlemen in Alabama >and I have recommended a future upgrade that copies your >installation...Wondered if you might be willing to "rent" it out so to >speak?...:) > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >LarryMcFarland >Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:46 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland >--> > > >You're right Frank, >I did upgrade my heads per Ram Performance after only 10-minutes of >running it and before flying it. The cost was not a problem considering >the benefit. I also improved cooling with an air intake and louvers >that helped airflow. The other thing was making an interlink that >connected the carburetter throttle shafts to get one solid cable to >operate the throttles same as a Cessna to eliminate springs and >adjusting of dual cables to the carbs. I also put in dual ignition >within the distributor in addition to the flywheel pickup electronic >ignition. >Then combine that with the Aeroelectric wiring diagram for dual >batteries, dual pumps, main, essential and hot buses, etc. The Stratus >is finally outfitted right for a 601. Some of these areas like carb >cables and springs and the Rabbit radiator were Zenith origin, but the >Stratus Subaru was still worth the extra effort. > >Larry > > >Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" >> >> > > > >>Wait a minute Larry...You upgraded your cylinder heads before you flew >>your Stratus conversion if I remember?...With that proviso yes I would >>argue it's a wonderful engine/redrive package...But not without that >>mod...Oh, and the ignition system really needs to be upgraded, but that >>is a fairly small job. >> >> >>Frank >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >>LarryMcFarland >>Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:00 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine >> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland >>--> >> >>Dave, >>I've got a 1.8 liter Stratus Subaru on my 601HDS and I'm really pleased >>with it. An 801 would probably take a larger 150-160 hp Subaru from >> >> >the > > >>2.2 liter group. Stratus, NSI, Eggenfelder and Ram Performance were >> >> >the > > >>most prolific models around til recently. >>Eggenfelder is very pricey, NSI is hard to do business with directly or >>indirectly, Stratus has a great product as does Ram Performance. >> >>Subarus are good product top to bottom and reflect considerably lower >>prices for repair and economy of operation. Lots of heavy gyro-planes >>(1000 lb +) use them because they take the abuse of hard running >>indefinitely without complaint. Learning how a water- cooled engine is >>best set up used to be a problem, but there's enough info available to >>get past that nowdays. One of the nicest things about the Subaru is >> >> >the > > >>cabin heat available if you divert coolant to that purpose. You can >>have a 65-degree cabin at sub freezing temps. >> >>We've got a 701 in our area with an EA-81 Subaru and Stratus Redrive on >>it and it climbs out really well. >> >>Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com >> >> >>Dave Ruddiman wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >>>--> >>> >>>Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating >>> >> I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone >> >> >and > > >>looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty >>much into RV's. >> >> >> >> >>>Thanks, >>>Dave in Oregon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > >x > > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:03 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Another point of concern I have heard from several fellows with the header tank is it makes it real crowded for the rear of instruments and cables and such that have to butt up to the tank. On my XL without a header tank it's pretty full with only VFR. I can't imagine the extra effort if I had a header tank in the way. FWIW, Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:07 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yes I was thinkin of how to write this. Our (I'm not the only one) story is one of much pain but we eventually won thru with the help of Ron Carr. I would not like to see an article wriiten that oes not point out the "struggles" that can occur when deviating from a "proper" airplane engine, even with a "fully engineered" conversion. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory Emberson Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cory Emberson --> Hi Frank, Made me smile! Perhaps that can be part of an interpretive sculpture...? :-) Cory Do not archive Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" >--> > >Hmmm...How about ones that have not been so sucessful but been >eventually sorted?...:) > >Do not archive > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory >Emberson >Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:53 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested (Alternative Engines) >Kitplanes Magazine > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Cory Emberson >--> > >Hello all, > >I would like to hear from you if you're a builder who has successfully >installed and flown an alternative engine in your plane. I'm compiling >a builder's roundup for Kitplanes magazine, and am looking for an >installation that's flown for a minimum of 300 hours, and is currently >flying. > >For the builders that we profile, the magazine will also be able to pay >you $100 for the write-up. I'll be at Sun 'n Fun until late morning on >Friday (April 7), so if you fly in, I'd be happy to take the photos >there. If not, we would also need at least 2-3 good photos, including a >close-up of the engine and an overall shot of the aircraft. Additional >photos would be great, and all photos will be returned. If you have >digital photos, it is very important that they be high-resolution, at >least 300 dpi. I have a list of specific areas to address if you'd like >to participate, but we can handle that off-line. Please feel free to >contact me off-line at: bootless (at) earthlink (dot) net (my despammed >email address). > >Thank you so much! > >best, >Cory Emberson >Contributing Editor >Kitplanes Magazine > > > > >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:07 PM PST US From: Rory Davis Subject: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 and airframe ground continuity --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rory Davis Has anyone using Cortec 373 primer had any problems with high airframe ground resistance or intermittent grounding? Cortec being a plastic (insulator), doesn't it electrically isolate each side of the metal joint if applied between the two halves, with ground continuity relying on the rivets and scratches/imperfections in the primer? I'm getting ready to close up the first wing on my 701 kit and in the process of installing the strobe box and fuel tank grounding got to thinking about this. I scraped away the layer of primer at the grounding points but then realized all the ribs and channels may be electrically isolated from each other. This could make for noisy radio comms or odd electrical faults in the future. Any comments? Rory Lacombe, LA CH701 Working on wings ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:10 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: How is the Rebuild --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Al, good to hear from you, how's the rebuild coming along ? Can I help in anyway ? You have got to get her out with the spring. Seems I just live for the weekends so I can go flying. If you want to come south and spend a few days flying my plane to get re-blued before going up again just say the word. I got a note from David couple weeks ago. He and Linda were out skiing in Colorado for his birthday. What kind of fun is that compared to flying your own hand built airplane ? Some folks sure have strange ideas, Ha. Best to you, Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:38 PM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet gun Pressure --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" Hi Mike, You asked, "I have the Harbor Freight Rivet Gun and was wondering what pressure you initial use. Anyone else's experience with this type of gun and there recommendations." A friend and I used the Harbor Freight gun to build two Excalibur ultralights plus many after-completion mods. It is about four years old and still works well. I used it again today riveting stiffeners to a rear cockpit windshield. I have always operated it on 90 - 95 psi. Remember to give it 3 or 4 drops of 3 in 1 oil in the air inlet before each work session. Ed Moody II Rayne LA 601XL working on tail Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cortec 373 and airframe ground continuity From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" Just my opinion, but since all the metal pieces in a Zenith are held together by numerous rivets, I would think they are very well grounded. If you are concerned, you can always run a separate ground wire to a central grounding point but I think it would be unnecessary. If possible, I would use shielded wire to carry the +12 volts to the strobe units (making sure the shielding is grounded.) I have had problems with strobes generating radio noise. Also, keep the antenna coax away from power wires when possible. Tim -------- CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - awaiting kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24281#24281 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:15 PM PST US From: "Matt & Jo" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet gun Pressure --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matt & Jo" I have been real happy with the same gun. I run it at 60 psi and it seems to work fine. I plumbed a small regulator on the gun to step down the pressure. Good Luck Matt www.zodiacxl.com Been following the list for awhile and just picked up my 601 Kit from > the factory. I have the Harbor Freight Rivet Gun and was wondering what > pressure you initial use. Anyone else's experience with this type of > gun and there recommendations. ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:49 PM PST US From: Mark Sorenson Subject: Zenith-List: Atlanta Area Live with your Airplane --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sorenson For those of you interested in LIVING with YOUR AIRPLANE. There are two properties for sale at Big T airport (64GA) just 6 miles from Tarra Field's aerobatic box. Both properties have residnetial accomodations attached to hangars with over 3000 sq ft of hangar space and over 2400 sq ft of living area in the homes. One property has a joint 1000 gal fuel tank. Both properties are located ON THE RUNWAY. One property is asking $399,900 and the other is asking $385,000. These are not currently listed with MLS so save big now on commission with dealing directly with the owners. Currently 4 other IAC members here on the field and we all fly as often as possible critiquing each other. Also we are only a 11 minute drive from Aircraft Spruce and Specialties in Peachtree City, GA. For more information and owner contact info, please contact me at 678-463-5944 or at marksorenson@sprintpcs.com Look up the airport at www.airnav.com or at http://skyvector.com/airport/64GA/Big-T--Air port ------------------ Best Regards, Mark- 678-GO-FLY-HI -------------------- This message was sent from a Sprint PCS Phone.