Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:16 AM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (Jean-Paul Roy)
2. 04:04 AM - Re: Cortec 373 and airframe ground continuity (george may)
3. 06:26 AM - Re: [aviation] Re: Ready to start project (William Dominguez)
4. 06:58 AM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (Jim Hoak)
5. 06:58 AM - Re: Rivet gun Pressure (Leo Gates)
6. 07:31 AM - Re: Cortec 373 and airframe ground continuity (Dave Ruddiman)
7. 08:38 AM - Re: 801 - Subaru engine (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 08:39 AM - Re: [aviation] Re: Ready to start project (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 09:08 AM - Notes from Rudder Workshop (Stanley Challgren)
10. 09:31 AM - Re: [aviation] Re: Ready to start project (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
11. 09:40 AM - Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 10:20 AM - wing tank fuel line connection (Edward Moody II)
13. 11:27 AM - Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop (Al Young)
14. 11:27 AM - Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop (Bill Naumuk)
15. 01:07 PM - Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop (Paul Mulwitz)
16. 01:16 PM - 801 (Keystone Engineering LLC)
17. 01:56 PM - Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop (Rory Davis)
18. 02:55 PM - Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop (Tim Juhl)
19. 02:55 PM - Re: 801 (Dave Ruddiman)
20. 03:34 PM - Re: [aviation] wing tank fuel line connection (Bruce Bockius)
21. 03:37 PM - Re: 801 (n801bh@netzero.com)
22. 03:43 PM - Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop (Craig Payne)
23. 04:36 PM - Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop (Paul Mulwitz)
24. 05:15 PM - Re: 801 (N5SL)
25. 07:04 PM - Re: [aviation] Re: Ready to start project (William Dominguez)
26. 07:42 PM - Flying Regulations Updated (john H)
27. 10:31 PM - New N601LG pictures (Lance Gingell)
28. 11:07 PM - Re: New N601LG pictures (Paul Mulwitz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 801 - Subaru engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Larry, was just wondering if it was at all possible to divert the coolant on
a 912 for heating purpase?
Jean-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Dave,
> I've got a 1.8 liter Stratus Subaru on my 601HDS and I'm really pleased
> with it. An 801 would probably take a larger 150-160 hp
> Subaru from the 2.2 liter group. Stratus, NSI, Eggenfelder and Ram
> Performance were the most prolific models around til recently.
> Eggenfelder is very pricey, NSI is hard to do business with directly or
> indirectly, Stratus has a great product as does Ram Performance.
>
> Subarus are good product top to bottom and reflect considerably lower
> prices for repair and economy of operation. Lots of heavy
> gyro-planes (1000 lb +) use them because they take the abuse of hard
> running indefinitely without complaint. Learning how a water-
> cooled engine is best set up used to be a problem, but there's enough
> info available to get past that nowdays. One of the nicest things
> about the Subaru is the cabin heat available if you divert coolant to
> that purpose. You can have a 65-degree cabin at sub freezing temps.
>
> We've got a 701 in our area with an EA-81 Subaru and Stratus Redrive on
> it and it climbs out really well.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
> Dave Ruddiman wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
<pacificpainting@comcast.net>
> >
> >Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating
one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone and
looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty much
into RV's.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Dave in Oregon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Cortec 373 and airframe ground continuity |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
Rory
No problems on my plane with use or cortex. I insure at all termiinations
that
the cortex is removed to insure good electrical contact and have run all
grounds where practical to a common point.
George May
601XL 912s
Message 3
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| Subject: | Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
--- Bruce Bockius <bruce@whiteantelopesoftware.com>
wrote:
>
> - Header tank make for easy wing removal and
> reattachment but wing tank are safer. Im uneasy to
> the idea of a gasoline tank over my feet.
>
> You can get wing tanks and do away with the header
> tank on any of the 601
> models.
>
Yes but, having an HD with wing tanks make more
difficult the removal and re-attachment of the wing.
So this advantage the HD has over the XL (rigging
without connecting fuel lines) gets defeated.
William Dominguez
Plansbuilt 601XL
Working on bending brake
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 801 - Subaru engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
Jean-Paul,
I remember talking to a Kitfox builder (at oshkosh) from Minnasota who ran
some hot water hoses to a small radiator forward of his instrument panel.
(Like your car). He used one or two small 12 volt DC motors to blow air
across the radiator to put the heat in the cabin. He said it worked good. My
concerns with this installation would be hot water leaks in the cabin and
the complications in preventing flow through the radiator in hot weather (
don't need the heat then). Can use the shut-off valve from you car.
I use the standard ZAC heat muff shroud on my left exhaust for cabin heat.
It's more than adequate here in Goergia in winter. We primarily need
cooling! Of course, with the heat muff shroud you always have the
possibility of exhaust leaks and carbon monoxcide. Can't win!
do not archive
Jim Hoak 601HD - 80 HP Rotax 506 Hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
> <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>
> Larry, was just wondering if it was at all possible to divert the coolant
> on
> a 912 for heating purpase?
>
> Jean-Paul
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 3:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>>
>> Dave,
>> I've got a 1.8 liter Stratus Subaru on my 601HDS and I'm really pleased
>> with it. An 801 would probably take a larger 150-160 hp
>> Subaru from the 2.2 liter group. Stratus, NSI, Eggenfelder and Ram
>> Performance were the most prolific models around til recently.
>> Eggenfelder is very pricey, NSI is hard to do business with directly or
>> indirectly, Stratus has a great product as does Ram Performance.
>>
>> Subarus are good product top to bottom and reflect considerably lower
>> prices for repair and economy of operation. Lots of heavy
>> gyro-planes (1000 lb +) use them because they take the abuse of hard
>> running indefinitely without complaint. Learning how a water-
>> cooled engine is best set up used to be a problem, but there's enough
>> info available to get past that nowdays. One of the nicest things
>> about the Subaru is the cabin heat available if you divert coolant to
>> that purpose. You can have a 65-degree cabin at sub freezing temps.
>>
>> We've got a 701 in our area with an EA-81 Subaru and Stratus Redrive on
>> it and it climbs out really well.
>>
>> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>
>>
>> Dave Ruddiman wrote:
>>
>> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>> >
>> >Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or contemplating
> one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone and
> looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty much
> into RV's.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >Dave in Oregon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet gun Pressure |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com>
Levonowich, Michael wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Levonowich, Michael" <mjl244@kenoshapolice.com>
>
>Been following the list for awhile and just picked up my 601 Kit from
>the factory. I have the Harbor Freight Rivet Gun and was wondering what
>pressure you initial use. Anyone else's experience with this type of
>gun and there recommendations.
>Mike
>
> N244ML
>
I used 90 psi with no bounce issue. Very pleased with the gun.
Leo Gates
N601Z
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cortec 373 and airframe ground continuity |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
What exactly is Cortec 373? Is it primer? I just use self etching primer
for aluminum.
----- Original Message -----
From: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:01 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cortec 373 and airframe ground continuity
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
>
> Rory
> No problems on my plane with use or cortex. I insure at all
> termiinations
> that
> the cortex is removed to insure good electrical contact and have run all
> grounds where practical to a common point.
>
> George May
> 601XL 912s
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | 801 - Subaru engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
In my 601 hot water flows thru thr heater core all the time...Never
noticed any heat from the coil like this in 400 hours of flying. I would
not put a heater valve in and save the complexity. I use 4 computer
muffin fans and run 2 of them for low heat...All four for high.
Works great...as for coolant leaks put the heater core above the
passengers feet...:)
If your worried about the heater core leaking then you should be equally
concerned for the radiator.
Frank
601 HDS 394 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hoak
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
Jean-Paul,
I remember talking to a Kitfox builder (at oshkosh) from Minnasota who
ran some hot water hoses to a small radiator forward of his instrument
panel.
(Like your car). He used one or two small 12 volt DC motors to blow air
across the radiator to put the heat in the cabin. He said it worked
good. My concerns with this installation would be hot water leaks in the
cabin and the complications in preventing flow through the radiator in
hot weather ( don't need the heat then). Can use the shut-off valve from
you car.
I use the standard ZAC heat muff shroud on my left exhaust for cabin
heat.
It's more than adequate here in Goergia in winter. We primarily need
cooling! Of course, with the heat muff shroud you always have the
possibility of exhaust leaks and carbon monoxcide. Can't win!
do not archive
Jim Hoak 601HD - 80 HP Rotax 506 Hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean-Paul Roy" <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
> <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>
> Larry, was just wondering if it was at all possible to divert the
coolant
> on
> a 912 for heating purpase?
>
> Jean-Paul
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 3:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 - Subaru engine
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
<larry@macsmachine.com>
>>
>> Dave,
>> I've got a 1.8 liter Stratus Subaru on my 601HDS and I'm really
pleased
>> with it. An 801 would probably take a larger 150-160 hp
>> Subaru from the 2.2 liter group. Stratus, NSI, Eggenfelder and Ram
>> Performance were the most prolific models around til recently.
>> Eggenfelder is very pricey, NSI is hard to do business with directly
or
>> indirectly, Stratus has a great product as does Ram Performance.
>>
>> Subarus are good product top to bottom and reflect considerably lower
>> prices for repair and economy of operation. Lots of heavy
>> gyro-planes (1000 lb +) use them because they take the abuse of hard
>> running indefinitely without complaint. Learning how a water-
>> cooled engine is best set up used to be a problem, but there's enough
>> info available to get past that nowdays. One of the nicest things
>> about the Subaru is the cabin heat available if you divert coolant to
>> that purpose. You can have a 65-degree cabin at sub freezing temps.
>>
>> We've got a 701 in our area with an EA-81 Subaru and Stratus Redrive
on
>> it and it climbs out really well.
>>
>> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>>
>>
>> Dave Ruddiman wrote:
>>
>> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>> >
>> >Anyone on the list have a Subaru engine in their plane or
contemplating
> one? I'm looking for information. Talked to Eggenfeller on the phone
and
> looked on their website but I didn't get much. They seem to be pretty
much
> into RV's.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >Dave in Oregon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
For me pesonally I could not put the header tank in
One other consideration...A header tank makes the fuel system less prone
to vapour lock due to the gravity head of the tank up high.
If you have wing tanks only you need to give this careful consideration
when building your fuel system.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Dominguez
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:18 AM
Subject: RE: [aviation] RE: Zenith-List: Ready to start project
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez
--> <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
--- Bruce Bockius <bruce@whiteantelopesoftware.com>
wrote:
>
> - Header tank make for easy wing removal and
> reattachment but wing tank are safer. Im uneasy to the idea of a
> gasoline tank over my feet.
>
> You can get wing tanks and do away with the header tank on any of the
> 601 models.
>
Yes but, having an HD with wing tanks make more
difficult the removal and re-attachment of the wing.
So this advantage the HD has over the XL (rigging
without connecting fuel lines) gets defeated.
William Dominguez
Plansbuilt 601XL
Working on bending brake
Message 9
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|
Cc: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
| Subject: | Notes from Rudder Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Fellow Builders:
I attended the rudder workshop at Zenith in February and found it to
be a most worthwhile trip. I picked up my 701 kit and it fit easily
in the back of my Suburban. I had been concerned about the 12 foot
sheets of aluminum listed in the materials list fitting in the
Suburban but they are rolled up so take very little room.
I asked Nicholas what their annual kit production was at the present
time. He indicated they sold about ninety five 701 kits per year
and slightly more 601 XL kits than that. He said they have about 50
employees now which is about the same level as in the past. Their
new CNC machine is allowing greater production with the same number
of employees.
Several of you have wondered if a quick build 701 kit was in the
offing. From my experience building a 601 kit starting back in 1997
I can say that the current 701 kit appears to be a quick build in
comparison. A significantly greater number of parts are cut to
specifications and I will spend much less time fabricating parts for
the 701 than I did on the 601.
After building the 601 HDS without benefit of the rudder workshop I
wonder now how that was possible. Must have had a guardian angel
over my shoulder who had an A & P.
Question: We had a wonderful experience with our Jabiru 3300 but I
plan to use my 701 for Sport Pilot Training. This will entail much
more time practicing landings and I am contemplating a Rotax because
of its water cooling allowing better temperature stability. The
Rotax community seems to have no human beings who can respond to your
problems. Pete and Andy and all of the people in the Jabiru
community are almost like family and give great backup to a superior
product. Are there humans backing up the Rotax or is it just an
aloof Austrian company with a Caribbean company providing support and
whose last web site update was some time in 2003?
Stan
601 HDS/Jab 3300 built/sold
701 building in progress
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
William, I attached and removed my wings a half dozen times each before final
and the XL wing for fuel is only one hose clamp. the whole wing is but seven
bolts, whatever wire connector for lights, fuel sender, trim, hose for pitot,
cables for aileron and the clamp for the fuel line. Never took off an HDS or
HD wing, but doesn't it also have a wind fairing of sort that covers the
intersection that has to be removed ? FWIW, Bill of Georgia
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Stan,
First let me apologize for answering a question with a question.
You mention concern about cooling on the Jabiru engine while doing
landings. Do you have any information that this is a problem? Or,
is this just a theory that it might be a problem?
The reason I ask is that for 30 years I never heard anything about
problems with overcooling engines, but now this seems to get a lot of
attention. I am wondering if this is a real problem that went
unnoticed for so many years or if it is just some sort of current
theory about what might happen.
Thanks,
Paul
XL wings
> We had a wonderful experience with our Jabiru 3300 but I
>plan to use my 701 for Sport Pilot Training. This will entail much
>more time practicing landings and I am contemplating a Rotax because
>of its water cooling allowing better temperature stability. The
>Rotax community seems to have no human beings who can respond to your
>problems. Pete and Andy and all of the people in the Jabiru
>community are almost like family and give great backup to a superior
>product. Are there humans backing up the Rotax or is it just an
>aloof Austrian company with a Caribbean company providing support and
>whose last web site update was some time in 2003?
>
>Stan
>601 HDS/Jab 3300 built/sold
>701 building in progress
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | wing tank fuel line connection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Bruce Bockius <bruce@whiteantelopesoftware.com wrote: Header tank make for
easy wing removal and reattachment but wing tank are safer. Im uneasy to the
idea of a gasoline tank over my feet. You can get wing tanks and do away
with the header tank on any of the 601 models.
William Dominguez wrote: Yes but, having an HD with wing tanks make more
difficult the removal and re-attachment of the wing.
Some of you probably can answer this,
What do FAA types and DARs think about the idea of connecting wing tank fuel
lines to the fuselage lines/valve using quick disconnect couplings? They
have the handy feature of shutting off fuel flow/dripping from both sides of
the coupling when they are disconnected. At $26.00 per set they are pricey
but it's worth it to not have fuel running all over the place during
disassembly or service. I use them on my UL but have never asked if they are
considered safe enough for the more complex experimental aircraft.
Ed Moody II
Rayne LA
601XL working on tail
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@mchsi.com>
Stanley- You are not a CFI with more than 25 hrs in a 601 are you? (Re
using the 701 for training.) I need such a person. My insurance co wants
me to get 5 addl hours in a XL with a CFI that has more than 25 hrs in type.
Jim Pallien in VA is the only one that qualifies and that too far away for
me.
Al Young
601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Challgren" <challgren@mac.com>
Cc: "Stanley Challgren" <challgren@mac.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Notes from Rudder Workshop
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
>
> Fellow Builders:
>
> I attended the rudder workshop at Zenith in February and found it to
> be a most worthwhile trip. I picked up my 701 kit and it fit easily
> in the back of my Suburban. I had been concerned about the 12 foot
> sheets of aluminum listed in the materials list fitting in the
> Suburban but they are rolled up so take very little room.
>
> I asked Nicholas what their annual kit production was at the present
> time. He indicated they sold about ninety five 701 kits per year
> and slightly more 601 XL kits than that. He said they have about 50
> employees now which is about the same level as in the past. Their
> new CNC machine is allowing greater production with the same number
> of employees.
>
> Several of you have wondered if a quick build 701 kit was in the
> offing. From my experience building a 601 kit starting back in 1997
> I can say that the current 701 kit appears to be a quick build in
> comparison. A significantly greater number of parts are cut to
> specifications and I will spend much less time fabricating parts for
> the 701 than I did on the 601.
>
> After building the 601 HDS without benefit of the rudder workshop I
> wonder now how that was possible. Must have had a guardian angel
> over my shoulder who had an A & P.
>
> Question: We had a wonderful experience with our Jabiru 3300 but I
> plan to use my 701 for Sport Pilot Training. This will entail much
> more time practicing landings and I am contemplating a Rotax because
> of its water cooling allowing better temperature stability. The
> Rotax community seems to have no human beings who can respond to your
> problems. Pete and Andy and all of the people in the Jabiru
> community are almost like family and give great backup to a superior
> product. Are there humans backing up the Rotax or is it just an
> aloof Austrian company with a Caribbean company providing support and
> whose last web site update was some time in 2003?
>
> Stan
> 601 HDS/Jab 3300 built/sold
> 701 building in progress
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Stan-
I agree with your assessment of HDS building in spades! If it weren't
for certain internet "Angels", you could have picked up an HDS kit at my
local scrapyard a couple of years ago for peanuts. With my condolences!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Challgren" <challgren@mac.com>
Cc: "Stanley Challgren" <challgren@mac.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:06 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Notes from Rudder Workshop
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
>
> Fellow Builders:
> After building the 601 HDS without benefit of the rudder workshop I
> wonder now how that was possible. Must have had a guardian angel
> over my shoulder who had an A & P.
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Wow.
That sounds like a pretty hard requirement to meet. I think there is
another operation in Arizona or New Mexico that has XL dual offered,
but there sure aren't many places to get such dual instruction.
I only have two questions for you:
1. How much flight experience do you have?
2. Have you considered changing insurance companies?
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>Stanley- You are not a CFI with more than 25 hrs in a 601 are you? (Re
>using the 701 for training.) I need such a person. My insurance co wants
>me to get 5 addl hours in a XL with a CFI that has more than 25 hrs in type.
>Jim Pallien in VA is the only one that qualifies and that too far away for
>me.
>Al Young
>601X
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone@gci.net>
Dave
I think ZAC sells 10+ 601 for every 801 so there are a lot more 601 comments.
A 601 fits the needs of a lot more people than an 801.
Jim F (N801ZA) has a Lycoming O-320 in his and it does very well. I have a Lycoming
O-360 in mine and there is lots of power. At last year's Valdez May Day
fly-in I got off the ground in 139' and I have a cruse prop on the plane. Jim
go off in 151'. I had a little less fuel and I pumped up my tires a little
bit more. Jim has a climb prop on his.
I wanted to spend my time flying not trying to figure it out so I went with the
tried and true Lycoming. Lycomings have always brought me home. Any mechanic
at an airport has worked on them and probably has a few spare parts.
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
235 hrs
Valdez, AK
Installing floats as we speak.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Jay,
I did read through Liming's website. He has some good ideas. Looks like he
spent as much time on his computer documenting as he did building. I am
probably going to go the Lycoming route for exactly the same reasons you
are. Having a V8 is really intriguing, but I, like you, just want to build
the plane and fly it and not experiment. I haven't ridden in an 801 yet.
Have you? I'm sure 180 HP is plenty. And if I want to spend more money, a
constant speed prop would really make it perform. So, when I buy an engine,
I will get the correct model so I could ad a CS prop when and if I want one.
Dave
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rory Davis <n7cr@bellsouth.net>
Stanley Challgren said the following on 3/26/2006 11:06 AM:
> Question: We had a wonderful experience with our Jabiru 3300 but I
> plan to use my 701 for Sport Pilot Training. This will entail much
> more time practicing landings and I am contemplating a Rotax because
> of its water cooling allowing better temperature stability. The
> Rotax community seems to have no human beings who can respond to your
> problems. Pete and Andy and all of the people in the Jabiru
> community are almost like family and give great backup to a superior
> product. Are there humans backing up the Rotax or is it just an
> aloof Austrian company with a Caribbean company providing support and
> whose last web site update was some time in 2003?
I think you need to know who to talk to in the Rotax distributor network to get
answers. One of the reasons I am going with the 912S in my 701 because we have
a
Rotax Service Center less than 2 hours away: Ronnie Smith at South Mississippi
Light Aircraft (SMLA) in Lucedale, MS. I'm acquainted with Ronnie and have been
to his annual fly-in several times. Every question I've asked of him he's given
good answers, and knows his stuff with Rotax engines. (I guess I'm sort of
biased, since Ronnie gave me my introductory lesson in an MSquared Sprint in
2000...) He's one of those kind of guys who isn't constantly trying to sell you
anything, but he'll get you whatever you need if you ask.
Remember that Rotax has been serving the Ultralight community for a long time,
so in that small community, it works on personal relationships rather than mass
marketing or a web presence. To get good service you'll need to get familiar
with your local distributor/authorized repair center and at least go meet them
at the fly-ins or at Sun & Fun/Osh/Copperstate/Arlington, etc.
One other thing - what other engine manufacturer puts their entire service
manual online for download?
Just my opinion.... fwiw.
Rory
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Notes from Rudder Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Re: Engine cooling -
Just my opinion, but I wouldn't discount the jabiru simply because you plan to
do sport pilot training. The aircraft used for most flight training are air cooled
and have been flown hard with no real problems. The main thing would make
sure that the engine is properly broken in before you start using it for excessive
takeoff and landing practice. As long as you keep it within normal operating
limits and don't subject it to frequent "shock" cooling (long descents
at low power) you should be OK. My experience with Lycomings and Continentals
is that it doesn't hurt them to push them hard. The seldom flown, "babied"
engines are the ones that don't make it to TBO.
I understand the new Jab has redesigned cylinder fins giving 25% more cooling area
in addition to hydraulic lifters. Good gets better and better.
Tim Juhl
20+ years CFII
--------
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - awaiting kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24434#24434
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Hi Bill,
I have been looking some other options, again, and still keep coming back to
Lycoming. I agree with everything you said. I want to get this thing flying
and not be tinkering around with other engine options. Did you use a new
engine? I'm not sure about that yet.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keystone Engineering LLC" <keystone@gci.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 1:15 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 801
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC
> <keystone@gci.net>
>
> Dave
>
> I think ZAC sells 10+ 601 for every 801 so there are a lot more 601
> comments. A 601 fits the needs of a lot more people than an 801.
>
> Jim F (N801ZA) has a Lycoming O-320 in his and it does very well. I have
> a Lycoming O-360 in mine and there is lots of power. At last year's
> Valdez May Day fly-in I got off the ground in 139' and I have a cruse prop
> on the plane. Jim go off in 151'. I had a little less fuel and I pumped
> up my tires a little bit more. Jim has a climb prop on his.
>
> I wanted to spend my time flying not trying to figure it out so I went
> with the tried and true Lycoming. Lycomings have always brought me home.
> Any mechanic at an airport has worked on them and probably has a few spare
> parts.
>
> Bill Wilcox
> N801BW
> 235 hrs
> Valdez, AK
> Installing floats as we speak.
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
> Jay,
>
> I did read through Liming's website. He has some good ideas. Looks like he
> spent as much time on his computer documenting as he did building. I am
> probably going to go the Lycoming route for exactly the same reasons you
> are. Having a V8 is really intriguing, but I, like you, just want to build
> the plane and fly it and not experiment. I haven't ridden in an 801 yet.
> Have you? I'm sure 180 HP is plenty. And if I want to spend more money, a
> constant speed prop would really make it perform. So, when I buy an
> engine,
> I will get the correct model so I could ad a CS prop when and if I want
> one.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | wing tank fuel line connection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Bockius" <bruce@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com>
I have a fuel locker in one wing and use the quick-disconnect you mentioned.
Takes about 1/2 second to connect or disconnect. However I can't really
answer your question about what an inspector would think; I added the fuel
tank after the first flight so it wasn't reviewed by the FAA.
-Bruce/601HD/TDO/Stratus/486 hrs
***********************
Bruce Bockius
Black Forest, CO, USA
http://www.WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com/zodiac
bruce@WhiteAntelopeSoftware.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Moody II
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: [aviation] Zenith-List: wing tank fuel line connection
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Bruce Bockius <bruce@whiteantelopesoftware.com wrote: Header tank make for
easy wing removal and reattachment but wing tank are safer. Im uneasy to the
idea of a gasoline tank over my feet. You can get wing tanks and do away
with the header tank on any of the 601 models.
William Dominguez wrote: Yes but, having an HD with wing tanks make more
difficult the removal and re-attachment of the wing.
Some of you probably can answer this,
What do FAA types and DARs think about the idea of connecting wing tank fuel
lines to the fuselage lines/valve using quick disconnect couplings? They
have the handy feature of shutting off fuel flow/dripping from both sides of
the coupling when they are disconnected. At $26.00 per set they are pricey
but it's worth it to not have fuel running all over the place during
disassembly or service. I use them on my UL but have never asked if they are
considered safe enough for the more complex experimental aircraft.
Ed Moody II
Rayne LA
601XL working on tail
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
Ya know this might just be a oversight on my part but,,,,, I went to the Eggenfellner
site and looked at the 801 pics with the H-6 Subaru in it. In fact there
are two 801's on their site. On the 801 series there are 5 attach points for
the motor mount to bolt to. Four are just like any other Zenith plane has and
there is an upper one that ties the front cabin frame to the top of the firewall.
To me that pickup point is a major load bearing mount that transfers alot
of the motor weight to the cabin frame and spreads out the load to other areas
of the fuselage. All the other engine combos I have seen utilize this pickup
point. I swear the pics on the Egg site show their engine mount not connected
there. Is this just me or what ??????
Do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Ya know this might just be a oversight on my part but,,,,, I went to the Eggenfellner
site and looked at the 801 picswith the H-6 Subaru in it. In fact there
are two 801's on their site. On the 801 series there are 5 attach points for
the motor mount to bolt to. Four are just like any other Zenith plane has and
there is an upper one that ties the front cabin frame to the top of the firewall.
To me thatpickup point is a major load bearing mount that transfers alot of
the motor weight to the cabin frame and spreads out the load toother areas of
the fuselage. All the other engine combos I have seen utilize this pickup point.
I swear the pics on the Egg site showtheir engine mount not connected there.
Is this just me or what ??????
Do not archive
BenHaas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Notes from Rudder Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I'm not sure where you are but here are two possibilities:
http://www.southwestsportsplanes.com/ in Arizona
http://dragonflyaviation.com/contact.html in Northern California.
Both are saying they *will* offer instruction in 601XL'x. Dragonfly said
they would have their plane in March. They are associated with Zenith West
(http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/index.html)
If your insurance company will accept time in a fairly similar LSA consider
where I finished my sport pilot training: St. Charles Flying Service out
side of St. Louis: http://www.stcharlesflyingsvs.com/lightsport.php. They
have two Evektor Sport Stars (http://www.sportaircraftinternational.com/)
Good luck and let us know what you find out. I have a similar problem here
in Utah.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Al Young
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Notes from Rudder Workshop
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@mchsi.com>
Stanley- You are not a CFI with more than 25 hrs in a 601 are you? (Re
using the 701 for training.) I need such a person. My insurance co wants
me to get 5 addl hours in a XL with a CFI that has more than 25 hrs in type.
Jim Pallien in VA is the only one that qualifies and that too far away for
me.
Al Young
601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Challgren" <challgren@mac.com>
Cc: "Stanley Challgren" <challgren@mac.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Notes from Rudder Workshop
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
>
> Fellow Builders:
>
> I attended the rudder workshop at Zenith in February and found it to
> be a most worthwhile trip. I picked up my 701 kit and it fit easily
> in the back of my Suburban. I had been concerned about the 12 foot
> sheets of aluminum listed in the materials list fitting in the
> Suburban but they are rolled up so take very little room.
>
> I asked Nicholas what their annual kit production was at the present
> time. He indicated they sold about ninety five 701 kits per year
> and slightly more 601 XL kits than that. He said they have about 50
> employees now which is about the same level as in the past. Their
> new CNC machine is allowing greater production with the same number
> of employees.
>
> Several of you have wondered if a quick build 701 kit was in the
> offing. From my experience building a 601 kit starting back in 1997
> I can say that the current 701 kit appears to be a quick build in
> comparison. A significantly greater number of parts are cut to
> specifications and I will spend much less time fabricating parts for
> the 701 than I did on the 601.
>
> After building the 601 HDS without benefit of the rudder workshop I
> wonder now how that was possible. Must have had a guardian angel
> over my shoulder who had an A & P.
>
> Question: We had a wonderful experience with our Jabiru 3300 but I
> plan to use my 701 for Sport Pilot Training. This will entail much
> more time practicing landings and I am contemplating a Rotax because
> of its water cooling allowing better temperature stability. The
> Rotax community seems to have no human beings who can respond to your
> problems. Pete and Andy and all of the people in the Jabiru
> community are almost like family and give great backup to a superior
> product. Are there humans backing up the Rotax or is it just an
> aloof Austrian company with a Caribbean company providing support and
> whose last web site update was some time in 2003?
>
> Stan
> 601 HDS/Jab 3300 built/sold
> 701 building in progress
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Notes from Rudder Workshop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I hope you are right about more XL airplanes being available for dual
instruction. I am afraid the guys in California are barking up a
strange tree thinking they can have professionals build an ELSA
airplane and then use it for flight instruction. Perhaps it will
all work just fine, but I will believe it when I see it.
I hope anyone who can offer dual instruction in an XL will make lots
of noise on this list so those of us who have been desperately
looking for it find out. My understanding is the only way this can
happen is if the instructor owns the aircraft or it is a true
S-LSA. I know Jim has one such plane available in Virginia, but that
is a very long way for me to travel.
I asked the experts at EAA about training opportunities in this type
aircraft, and their only response was that if I found such an
opportunity to please tell them about it.
I sent specific email inquiries to the two listed places. I will
publish any responses I get - if they indicate a real opportunity for
dual instruction.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>I'm not sure where you are but here are two possibilities:
>
>http://www.southwestsportsplanes.com/ in Arizona
>
>http://dragonflyaviation.com/contact.html in Northern California.
>
>Both are saying they *will* offer instruction in 601XL'x. Dragonfly said
>they would have their plane in March. They are associated with Zenith West
>(http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/index.html)
>
>
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Ben:
That's a very interesting observation. I'm no
airplane designer, but it seems to me that the engine
mounts attach in the front of the Egg engine. This
would tend to reverse the moment from a standard,
rear-attaching mount and cause a large force pushing
downward in the rear of the engine.
If there were a center mount attached to the rear (if
it went to the front it might not fit inside the cowl)
it would put a strange, pushing down twisting force on
the center, top mounting location. This may cause
problems with the airframe or just be useless. Just a
guess.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Plumbing intake piping
601XL / Corvair
Do Not Archive
--- "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
>
> Ya know this might just be a oversight on my part
> but,,,,, I went to the Eggenfellner site and looked
> at the 801 pics with the H-6 Subaru in it. In fact
> there are two 801's on their site. On the 801 series
> there are 5 attach points for the motor mount to
> bolt to.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Ready to start project |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
Bill, thanks for that info, how long does it take to
rig and de-rig the wings? including
attaching/detaching the aileron cables and not
including emptying the fuel tanks.
William Dominguez
Plansbuilt 601XL
Working on bending brake
--- JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
> William, I attached and removed my wings a half
> dozen times each before final
> and the XL wing for fuel is only one hose clamp. the
> whole wing is but seven
> bolts, whatever wire connector for lights, fuel
> sender, trim, hose for pitot,
> cables for aileron and the clamp for the fuel line.
> Never took off an HDS or
> HD wing, but doesn't it also have a wind fairing of
> sort that covers the
> intersection that has to be removed ? FWIW, Bill of
> Georgia
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Flying Regulations Updated |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com>
Just passing this along for fun....John
Dept. of the Army
Regulations For Operation Of Aircraft
Commencing January 1920
1. Don't take the machine into the air unless you are satisfied it will fly.
2. Never leave the ground with the motor leaking.
3. Don't turn sharply when taxiing. Instead of turning sharp, have someone
lift
the tail around.
4. In taking off, look at the ground and the air.
5. Never get out of the machine with the motor running until the pilot
relieving
you can reach the motor controls.
6. Pilots should carry hankies in a handy place to wipe off goggles.
7. Riding on the steps, wings, or rail of the machine is prohibited.
8. In case the engine fails on takeoff, land straight ahead regardless of
obstacles.
9. No machine must taxi faster than a man can walk.
10. Never run motor so that blast will blow on other machines.
11. Learn to gauge altitude, especially on landing.
12. If you see another machine near you, get out of the way.
13. No two cadets should ever ride together in the same machine.
14. Do not trust altitude instruments.
15. Before you begin a landing glide, see that no machines are under you.
16. Hedge-hopping will not be tolerated.
17. No spins on back or tail sides will be indulged in as they unnecessarily
strain the machines.
18. If flying against the wind and you wish to fly with the wind, don't make
a
sharp turn near the ground. You may crash.
19. Motors have been known to stop during a long glide. If pilot wishes to
use
motor for landing, he should open the throttle.
20. Don't attempt to force the machine onto the ground with more than flying
speed. The result is bounding and ricocheting.
21. Pilots will not wear spurs while flying.
22. Do not use aeronautical gasoline in cars or motorcycles.
23. You must not take off or land closer than 50 feet to the hanger.
24. Never take a machine into the air until you are familiar with it's
controls
and instruments.
25. If an emergency occurs while flying, land as soon as possible.
Do Not Archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | New N601LG pictures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Since the first flight of Zodiac XL N601LG last September, we've flown
some 65 hours. This month was the date things really looked complete.
N601LG was painted!
I've posted some new air to air pictures, taken today, on my website:
http://lancegingell.com/zodiacflying.asp
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Zodiac 601 XL/Jabiru 3300
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: New N601LG pictures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Very nice pictures and paint job.
Keep up the good work.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>Since the first flight of Zodiac XL N601LG last September, we've flown
>some 65 hours. This month was the date things really looked complete.
>N601LG was painted!
>
>I've posted some new air to air pictures, taken today, on my website:
>http://lancegingell.com/zodiacflying.asp
>
>..la
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