Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:40 AM - Rivets (Murray Randall)
2. 06:56 AM - Zenith Builders & Owners BBQ (Zodie Rocket)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: Rivets (Zodie Rocket)
4. 09:50 AM - Re: Olfa Knife (William Dominguez)
5. 09:53 AM - Re: Rivets (Dave Ruddiman)
6. 11:45 AM - Re: EA-81 RPM (Kelly Meiste)
7. 01:13 PM - Re: Rivets (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 04:07 PM - Re: Rivets (n801bh@netzero.com)
9. 05:18 PM - Deburring Blind Holes (Dave VanLanen)
10. 05:18 PM - Re: Rivets (John Maselli)
11. 06:50 PM - Re: Deburring Blind Holes (Aaron Gustafson)
12. 06:54 PM - Re: Deburring Blind Holes (Dave Ruddiman)
13. 07:04 PM - Re: Deburring Blind Holes (John Maselli)
14. 07:40 PM - Re: Zenith Builders & Owners BBQ (N5SL)
15. 08:34 PM - Re: Olfa Knife (JohnDRead@aol.com)
16. 09:09 PM - Re: Deburring Blind Holes (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
17. 09:09 PM - Re: Deburring Blind Holes (Doug Eatman)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Murray Randall" <aeroads@comcast.net>
Potential new builder of an 801 with a rivet question.....I've searched the archives
for reference to using solid driven rivets rather than pulled and not found
any discussion Has anyone used driven rivets or those along in the
project see any compelling reason not to use driven rivets Murray Myricks
Airport MA
Message 2
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| Subject: | Zenith Builders & Owners BBQ |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi Group, this is it, sign up is closed and I=92m heading out the door for
Sun-N-Fun! The Zenith Builders cook out is on Thursday April 6. I have
just counted everyone who sent me an E-Mail and we are presently at 146
people planning to attend. Add to that all the builders who are not
online that will show up at the show and we are poised to not only be
the largest event for Zenith builders and owners but possibly the
largest event of any group of aviation enthusiasts. If you have not yet
sent me an E-Mail then let me know at the Zenith booth, but only if you
have not sent me an E-Mail previously or I will get confused. I will be
buying all the food on Wed. We could use some deserts, pop and salads if
you wish to bring something we will be throwing on the burgers and dogs
plus this year were going to add wings to the menu, whoever brought the
strawberries last year, I hope your able to do it again! They were
really good. I would like to thank Jabiru USA, Homebuilthelp.com and
Sensornetics for there donations towards this event. David, Jon, Rick
and Myself will be donating the rest to ensure that you all have a great
time.
Guys & Gals this event is for you! It is not a Zenith sponsored event
but is one started by builders for builders. There are no formal name
tags this year either. Have fun, come out to the show and spend an
Evening with Chris Heintz and Gang!
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
--
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Murray, this question has popped up before, using solid rivets will only
strengthen the area in which you use and will not strengthen the design.
The speed gain in an 801 will be less then 0.2mph but you will add
another 1000hrs to your build time and need a partner for most of the
process. The choice is ultimately yours but I really can't fathom any
reason or desire to solid rivet a STOL aircraft. In fact it makes little
sense to solid rivet any design that fly's at less then 200mph.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Murray
Randall
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 1:32 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Murray Randall"
<aeroads@comcast.net>
Potential new builder of an 801 with a rivet question.....I've searched
the archives for reference to using solid driven rivets rather than
pulled and not found any discussion Has anyone used driven rivets
or those along in the project see any compelling reason not to use
driven rivets Murray Myricks Airport MA
--
--
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
I bought mine in a local art supply store, none of my
local Home Depot carries any of the Olfa products.
William Dominguez
601XL
working on bending brake
--- Zodie Rocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
> <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
> Bill I checked with Home Depot, the Olfa P-800 is a
> standard stock item,
> usually found in the tools section.
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
> www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 6:21 PM
> To: zenith list
> Subject: Zenith-List: Olfa Knife
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
> <naumuk@alltel.net>
>
> All-
> After watching the new Homebuilder Help video on
> Zenith
> construction, I was sold on something called the
> "Olfa Knife". Makes
> nice, straight cuts on sheet stock.
> Tried Home Depot, etc. and got no hits. Is
> anyone familiar with a
> similar tool, and what's it called in the States?
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
protection around
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Murray,
I am building an 801. I might use countersunk rivets on my fuselage sides
just for looks. Although when I get to them, I really will probably use
"pop" rivets. I have used both kinds on other projects and the only reason I
can see to use them on an 801 is for looks. If you use the domed head driven
rivets, you end up with the same appearance. So, since there is no
advantage, strengthwise, do what ever you want. My opinion is, it's your
plane, do what you want.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: "Murray Randall" <aeroads@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 10:32 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Murray Randall" <aeroads@comcast.net>
>
> Potential new builder of an 801 with a rivet question.....I've searched
> the archives for reference to using solid driven rivets rather than pulled
> and not found any discussion Has anyone used driven rivets or
> those along in the project see any compelling reason not to use driven
> rivets Murray Myricks Airport MA
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kelly Meiste" <kellymeiste@jcwifi.com>
> Normally, I take off with 4500-4600 rpm (65 to 70
> mph). Then, I cruise at 4300-4500 rpm. At level
> flight, I get 4950 max rpm.
>
> How is it for those of you guys using Soob engines on
> CH601s?
> Michel CH601-HD; 177 hours since Oct 5, 2004
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Michel,
I normally fly my Stratus EA-81 as follows:
Take off = 4,500 RPM
Cruise = 4,000 RPM (approx 95 MPH)
Kelly Meiste
601 HD (135 hrs)
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
On a slow plane like the 801 (and I doubt it would make hardly any
difference on a 601XL either) I can't see any reason other than
aesthetics for going for solid rivets.
They take a LOT! more time to set (and some skill...larger scew up
factor), needs lots of expensive tools (buy an ex RV builder dinner for
him and his Wife!) and need access to both sides of the rivet.
Its up to you if this is worth it to you...For me it would not.
I assume you can drop down one size if using solid rivets...I.e an AN4
pop rivet would be replaced with an AN3 C/s rivet...after you have
dimpled both parts of course. This would make it a lot easier.
Frank
601 HDS 394 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Ruddiman
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
--> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Murray,
I am building an 801. I might use countersunk rivets on my fuselage
sides just for looks. Although when I get to them, I really will
probably use "pop" rivets. I have used both kinds on other projects and
the only reason I can see to use them on an 801 is for looks. If you use
the domed head driven rivets, you end up with the same appearance. So,
since there is no advantage, strengthwise, do what ever you want. My
opinion is, it's your plane, do what you want.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: "Murray Randall" <aeroads@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 10:32 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Murray Randall"
<aeroads@comcast.net>
>
> Potential new builder of an 801 with a rivet question.....I've
searched
> the archives for reference to using solid driven rivets rather than
pulled
> and not found any discussion Has anyone used driven rivets
or
> those along in the project see any compelling reason not to use driven
> rivets Murray Myricks Airport MA
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
Potential new builder of an 801 with a rivet question.....I've searched the
archives for reference to using solid driven rivets rather than pulled and not
found any discussion Has anyone used driven rivets or those along in
the project see any compelling reason not to use driven rivets Murray
Myricks Airport MA
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Brad Maynard down in Texas is building an 801 and he is using bucked rivets in
most of his plane. Look for his email address on the "builders on the web" site
in the ZAC 801 section. He and his wife were out here in Jackson Hole last fall
and I gave them both a ride in my 801 thrill show...... They are good poeple..
On a off topic note....
For all you computer experts out there I have a dilemma. I had AOL for years and
answering topics was easy, I just pasted the stuff I wanted to and it automatically
added the > thing and I replied to the question. Now I have Netzero and
it not only doesn't do the > thing, it doubles everything I type and that is
really ticking me off. Please help me for I am NOT computer friendly..... Thanks
in advance.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Potential new builder of an 801 with a rivet question.....I've searched the
archives for reference to using solid driven rivets rather than pulled and not
found any discussion Has anyone used driven rivets or those along in
the project see any compelling reason not to use driven rivets Murray
Myricks Airport MA
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Brad Maynard down in Texas is building an 801 and he is using bucked rivets in
most of his plane. Lookfor his emailaddresson the "builders on the web" site in
the ZAC 801 section. He and his wife were out here in Jackson Hole last fall
and I gave them both a ride in my 801 thrill show...... They are good poeple..
On a off topic note....
For all you computer experts out there I have a dilemma. I had AOL for years and
answering topics was easy, I just pasted the stuffI wanted to and it automatically
added the thing andI replied to the question. Now I have Netzero and it
not only doesn't do the thing, it doubleseverythingI typeand that is really
ticking me off. Please help me for I am NOT computer friendly..... Thanks in
advance.
do not archive
BenHaas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Deburring Blind Holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Can anyone tell me how to debur a "blind" hole? For example, on the 601XL
rudder, we do not install the upper bearing mount brackets (6T4-3) until we
are ready to install the rudder on the fuselage. This involves drilling
through the spar ((6T4-4) from the front to mount these brackets. Since the
rudder is already closed, there is no way to debur the back side of these
holes in the spar.
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Maselli <jfmasell@optonline.net>
I have to agree. I actually found riveting to be an enjoyable job with my
pneumatic riveter. Even the hand riveter is satisfying to use. Also using
the standard blind rivets is much quicker and there are quite a few on the
801!
John Maselli
A Computer Consulting
516-524-0420
_____
I've stopped 1,014 spam messages. You can too!
One month FREE spam protection at www.cloudmark.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rivets
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
--> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
On a slow plane like the 801 (and I doubt it would make hardly any
difference on a 601XL either) I can't see any reason other than aesthetics
for going for solid rivets.
They take a LOT! more time to set (and some skill...larger scew up factor),
needs lots of expensive tools (buy an ex RV builder dinner for him and his
Wife!) and need access to both sides of the rivet.
Its up to you if this is worth it to you...For me it would not.
I assume you can drop down one size if using solid rivets...I.e an AN4 pop
rivet would be replaced with an AN3 C/s rivet...after you have dimpled both
parts of course. This would make it a lot easier.
Frank
601 HDS 394 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
--> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Murray,
I am building an 801. I might use countersunk rivets on my fuselage sides
just for looks. Although when I get to them, I really will probably use
"pop" rivets. I have used both kinds on other projects and the only reason I
can see to use them on an 801 is for looks. If you use the domed head driven
rivets, you end up with the same appearance. So, since there is no
advantage, strengthwise, do what ever you want. My opinion is, it's your
plane, do what you want.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: "Murray Randall" <aeroads@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 10:32 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Murray Randall"
<aeroads@comcast.net>
>
> Potential new builder of an 801 with a rivet question.....I've
searched
> the archives for reference to using solid driven rivets rather than
pulled
> and not found any discussion Has anyone used driven rivets
or
> those along in the project see any compelling reason not to use driven
> rivets Murray Myricks Airport MA
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Deburring Blind Holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" <agustafson@chartermi.net>
Dave
There are any number of deburing tools on the market, but as I often find,
the tool I make does a better job for my specific purpose. That being said,
I think some get carried away inventing or reinventing tools and spend lots
of time doing it. I make many tools, some for my 601 project and many for my
job, but I make prototypes (meaning I don't spend too much time on them till
I prove they work good. Most often I make several before I am satisfied but
none of them are time consuming till proven. Then MAYBE I will make a good
looking one. In my book "form follows function). All this to say, see what
you can come up with for a solution yourself.
Have fun!
Aaron
Iron Mountain MI
do not archive
> Can anyone tell me how to debur a "blind" hole?
> Dave Van Lanen
> Madison, WI
> 601XL
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Deburring Blind Holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Dave,
There is supposed to be a tool that you can stick through the hole and
deburr the back side. I haven't used one and don't even know if they really
exist. If you look on page 15 of the new Cleveland Tool catalog there is a
hooked blade for the deburring tool they have that looks like it might work.
If you don't have a catalog look on www.CleavelandTool.com .
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 5:15 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Deburring Blind Holes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
> <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Can anyone tell me how to debur a "blind" hole? For example, on the 601XL
> rudder, we do not install the upper bearing mount brackets (6T4-3) until
> we
> are ready to install the rudder on the fuselage. This involves drilling
> through the spar ((6T4-4) from the front to mount these brackets. Since
> the
> rudder is already closed, there is no way to debur the back side of these
> holes in the spar.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Van Lanen
> Madison, WI
> 601XL
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Deburring Blind Holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Maselli <jfmasell@optonline.net>
You can make a little tool that will go in the hole and scrap it clean. You
can use small debarring tools, consider a hook like instrument, take a wire
and bend it you can even use emery cloth wrapped around a thin piece of
wire. Not perfect but once you get a feel for it you will be able to clean
the back side. In addition if you use a sharp drill with very light pressure
their will be as cleaner hole that may not even need to be debarred!
John Maselli
A Computer Consulting
516-524-0420
_____
I've stopped 1,014 spam messages. You can too!
One month FREE spam protection at www.cloudmark.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave VanLanen
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Deburring Blind Holes
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
--> <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Can anyone tell me how to debur a "blind" hole? For example, on the 601XL
rudder, we do not install the upper bearing mount brackets (6T4-3) until we
are ready to install the rudder on the fuselage. This involves drilling
through the spar ((6T4-4) from the front to mount these brackets. Since the
rudder is already closed, there is no way to debur the back side of these
holes in the spar.
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Builders & Owners BBQ |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Hi Mark:
Can I bring two guests? If not I'll just eat 1/3rd of
a burger and share.
Looking forward to seeing you and David.
Scott Laughlin
--- Zodie Rocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket"
> <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
>
> Hi Group, this is it, sign up is closed and I=92m
> heading out the door for
> Sun-N-Fun! The Zenith Builders cook out is on
> Thursday April 6. I have
> just counted everyone who sent me an E-Mail and we
> are presently at 146
> people planning to attend. Add to that all the
> builders who are not
> online that will show up at the show and we are
> poised to not only be
> the largest event for Zenith builders and owners but
> possibly the
> largest event of any group of aviation enthusiasts.
> If you have not yet
> sent me an E-Mail then let me know at the Zenith
> booth, but only if you
> have not sent me an E-Mail previously or I will get
> confused. I will be
> buying all the food on Wed. We could use some
> deserts, pop and salads if
> you wish to bring something we will be throwing on
> the burgers and dogs
> plus this year were going to add wings to the menu,
> whoever brought the
> strawberries last year, I hope your able to do it
> again! They were
> really good. I would like to thank Jabiru USA,
> Homebuilthelp.com and
> Sensornetics for there donations towards this event.
> David, Jon, Rick
> and Myself will be donating the rest to ensure that
> you all have a great
> time.
> Guys & Gals this event is for you! It is not a
> Zenith sponsored event
> but is one started by builders for builders. There
> are no formal name
> tags this year either. Have fun, come out to the
> show and spend an
> Evening with Chris Heintz and Gang!
>
>
> Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
> Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
> HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org /
> HYPERLINK
> "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
> "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
protection around
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: JohnDRead@aol.com
Try Office Max or Office Depot.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Deburring Blind Holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 4/2/2006 7:19:44 PM Central Daylight Time,
davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
<davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Can anyone tell me how to debur a "blind" hole? For example, on the 601XL
rudder, we do not install the upper bearing mount brackets (6T4-3) until we
are ready to install the rudder on the fuselage. This involves drilling
through the spar ((6T4-4) from the front to mount these brackets. Since the
rudder is already closed, there is no way to debur the back side of these
holes in the spar.
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL
Dave, Take a look at www.mcmaster.com page2592. It has reversible
deburring tools at about 16 bucks. The one I have sleeps most of the time, works
well when it is needed.
Jerry
Message 17
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| Subject: | RE: Deburring Blind Holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Eatman" <pilotdna@hotmail.com>
The tool you are looking for is generally called an "In-Out Deburrer." It
consists of an 1/8" shaft with a tiny spring loaded blade that sticks out of
one side. You chuck it in a drill motor, spin it up and push it through
then pull it back out of the hole. I got mine out of a dumpster behind a
Grumman plant (when I saw boxes of tools being dumped, I couldn't help it!).
Wicks Aircraft stocks it, search their site for "burraway" or just click the
option of "sheet metal" under the "tools" menu.
6061 is soft enough that you must be quick with the tool so that it doesn't
start to countersink or enlarge the hole.
Douglas Eatman
601XL/Corvair
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