Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:37 AM - 406 Mhz PLB (neitzel)
2. 12:49 PM - Re: 406 Mhz PLB (Dave)
3. 02:44 PM - Re: 406 Mhz PLB (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 03:18 PM - Minimum Edge Distance (Dave VanLanen)
5. 03:50 PM - Re: Minimum Edge Distance ()
6. 04:39 PM - Re: Minimum Edge Distance (Edward Moody II)
7. 05:15 PM - Re: Minimum Edge Distance (Dave Austin)
8. 05:51 PM - Re: Minimum Edge Distance (Edward Moody II)
9. 07:25 PM - Trimming messages (Richard A Hartwig)
10. 08:00 PM - Minimum edge distance (George Swinford)
11. 08:16 PM - Re: 406 Mhz PLB (Craig Payne)
12. 08:25 PM - Re: Trimming messages (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
13. 09:38 PM - Domed rivets-response to Christian Trembley (George Swinford)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "neitzel" <n963wb@frontiernet.net>
Greetings all,
Some time ago there was a discussion about the requirement for the new 406 Mhz
PLB. I went to an FAA site and after wading through countless pages knew less
than when I started. It appeared that it was going to be an ICAO requirement
only, which would mean the 121.5/243.0 would still be monitored in the US. I
was on the Aviation Digital Data Service site today and they were able to say
in one sentence what took the FAA hundreds of pages to say (and left me clueless).
Apparently the current ELT system will shut down on 2/1/09. There after
only the 406 Mhz PLB will be monitored. If anyone wants to get the understandable
explanation of this new system, go to ADDS and you will see on the opening
page the links to get the correct information. I'm glad I ran into this info
as I can now return the Ameri-King ELT, that I just bought, and get a full
refund towards the purchase price of the more expensive 406 Mhz unit.
I would put the ADDS address here but it is about a foot long. If you don't already
have ADDS in your favorite list, use any search engine and type in ADDS.
Aviation Digital Data Service will be one of the first to come up. There is
also an wealth of weather data available on this site.
Dick Neitzel
Sayner, WI
701 Jabiru 2200
About 70% Hope to be on the gear by end of week end.
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
not really, the ELT info is on the first page
http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/
-
Dave
...........I would put the ADDS address here but it is about a foot long.
If you don't already have ADDS in your favorite list, use any search engine
and type in ADDS. Aviation Digital Data Service will be one of the first to
come up. There is also an wealth of weather data available on this site.
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I found the new ELT information here:
http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/
do not archive
Paul
XL wings
At 12:41 PM 4/7/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
>
>not really, the ELT info is on the first page
>http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Minimum Edge Distance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Recently I e-mailed some questions to Nick regarding edge distances. In his
response, he included a pdf file labeled CS #101. Based on his e-mail, it
sounds like this may be an excerpt from a complete construction manual that
will be coming out later in the summer. Anyway, when I looked at this page
it showed the minimum edge distance formula as 1.5d. In the material we
received at our workshop, the minimum edge distance formula was represented
as 2d. I asked Nick in a follow-up e-mail which formula was correct, and he
responded that 1.5d is correct. Can anyone shed any additonal light on this
discrepancy for me?
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Madison, WI
601XL
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum Edge Distance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <paulrod36@msn.com>
According to my old copy of 43.13 Para 99d(1) calls for edge distance of not
less than 2D, and spacing of not less than 3D. They may have changed it
since 1972.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 5:14 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Minimum Edge Distance
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
<davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Recently I e-mailed some questions to Nick regarding edge distances. In
his
> response, he included a pdf file labeled CS #101. Based on his e-mail, it
> sounds like this may be an excerpt from a complete construction manual
that
> will be coming out later in the summer. Anyway, when I looked at this
page
> it showed the minimum edge distance formula as 1.5d. In the material we
> received at our workshop, the minimum edge distance formula was
represented
> as 2d. I asked Nick in a follow-up e-mail which formula was correct, and
he
> responded that 1.5d is correct. Can anyone shed any additonal light on
this
> discrepancy for me?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Van Lanen
> Madison, WI
> 601XL
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum Edge Distance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Hi Dave,
Not sure what's up with this but my information received with the rudder
and again with the complete kit (arrived here 15MAR06 so I think it was
current) is that the ideal edge distance is three times the hole diameter.
In other words, for a 1/8" rivet: 1/8" equals 0.125" which multiplied times
3 equals 0.375" . Multiply that by 25.4 mm per inch to get an ideal edge
distance of 9.525 mm . That's why we were instructed to use 10.0 mm for
the rivet line where it was feasible. In a tight area, we were told that 7.5
mm was adequate: in other words, about 2.5 x the diameter is the minimum
edge distance. I have no idea why they would suddenly switch to a guideline
of 1.5 x d . You might want to review this with and ask why it has changed
because this does indeed represent a significant recent change in technique.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL working on tail
Rudder workshop (8-9DEC05 still fresh in memory)
Subject: Zenith-List: Minimum Edge Distance
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen"
> <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Recently I e-mailed some questions to Nick regarding edge distances. In
> his
> response, he included a pdf file labeled CS #101. Based on his e-mail, it
> sounds like this may be an excerpt from a complete construction manual
> that
> will be coming out later in the summer. Anyway, when I looked at this
> page
> it showed the minimum edge distance formula as 1.5d. In the material we
> received at our workshop, the minimum edge distance formula was
> represented
> as 2d. I asked Nick in a follow-up e-mail which formula was correct, and
> he
> responded that 1.5d is correct. Can anyone shed any additonal light on
> this
> discrepancy for me?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Van Lanen
> Madison, WI
> 601XL
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum Edge Distance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
Is think that the 1.5 times diameter is from the edge of the hole, the 2 x
diameter is from the centre of the hole. That's been my understanding for
both my a/c.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum Edge Distance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Measuring from the edge of the hole is not very useful in the construction
process unless you want to draw the line, then guess where to spot the drill
bit tip to have the edge touch the line. Distance from the edge of the hole
sounds like the stuff a DAR might use to evaluate the quality of the
construction. While building, it is more appropriate to work on the line
which translates to distance from the center of the hole to the edge. That's
how my instructions were written and it makes sense from the builder's
prospective.
Ed Moody II
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
>
> Is think that the 1.5 times diameter is from the edge of the hole, the 2 x
> diameter is from the centre of the hole. That's been my understanding for
> both my a/c.
> Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 9
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| Subject: | Trimming messages |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard A Hartwig <rhartwig11@juno.com>
PLEASE...please think before you hit the "Reply" when responding to
something on the Zenith List. Yesterday a couple of people resent the
whole digest from the day before. This makes the Digest very difficult
to read and also fills up the archives with useless repeats. Matronics
etiquette says to trim down the message you are replying to...leave only
what is necessary for understanding.
Dick H
rhartwig11@juno.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Minimum edge distance |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Way back in the cold war days, when I was designing sheet metal structure at McDonnell
Aircraft, the standard edge distance was 2D plus .06 inch (.31 inch for
a 1/8 rivet, just under 8mm). If we didn't put a dimension on the rivet pattern,
that edge distance was assumed and gave the mechanics some leeway in locating
the hole. 2D was adequate distance, but we had to show that dimension on
the drawing. In many cases, the stress analysts would approve 1.5D. These were
the standards used on the F4 and F101 fighters.
These edge distances were for solid (bucked) rivets, not pulled rivets such as
the Avex rivets we are using. Usually the designer tries to balance the shear
strength of the fastener with the shear tearout strength of the sheet, but other
factors sometimes enter in. Avex rivets have a lower shear strength than
solid AN rivets, and 6061-T6 is not as strong as the 2024-T3 used for those military
airplanes. For my own 601, I am assuming that 2D is adequate.
George Swinford
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
The cheapest 406 MHz unit I know of is the Artex ME406
(http://www.artex.net/me406.html), under $1000.
If you find yourself faced with posting a very long web address (URL) use
http://tinyurl.com to create a short equivalent. The tinyURL for the link
above is http://tinyurl.com/nwjoa. Not a very impressive demo but it will
create an equally short address for ones hundreds or thousands of characters
long.
BTW "PLB" is a misnomer for an ELT. A Personal Locator Beacon is typically a
portable, hand-held device (also on 406 MHz) and generally cheaper than a
406 MHz aircraft ELT. You can get one including an internal GPS for around
$800 (I'm ignoring the units intended for marine use). The down-side is that
they have to be manually activated.
-- Craig
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming messages |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
<<<< Matronics etiquette says to trim down the message you are replying
to...leave only what is necessary for understanding.>>>>
Amen!!!!!!
Dave
Message 13
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| Subject: | Domed rivets-response to Christian Trembley |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Christian:
I believe Chris H. answered this question some time ago, but I can't remember where
I saw the answer. Perhaps someone else on the list remembers. I have no
knowlege on this subject, except that Chris has tested the strength of Avex rivets
formed this way, and recommends it.
George
Do not archive
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