---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/15/06: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:34 AM - Re: Sun-N-Fun BBQ (Martin Pohl) 2. 06:03 AM - Bending Brake Welding Question (William Dominguez) 3. 06:03 AM - Re: Dremel cutting bits... (Bill Naumuk) 4. 06:25 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Sealer (n801bh@netzero.com) 5. 06:40 AM - Re: Bending Brake Welding Question (Jean-Paul Roy) 6. 06:46 AM - Re: Bending Brake Welding Question (Dave G.) 7. 07:16 AM - Re: Bending Brake Welding Question (William Dominguez) 8. 07:16 AM - Re: MASPL Demonstrator Aircraft For Sale - Save over $12,000 (Jim Pellien) 9. 07:21 AM - Re: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question (N5SL) 10. 08:02 AM - Re: Bending Brake Welding Question (LarryMcFarland) 11. 08:02 AM - Re: Bending Brake Welding Question (Bill Naumuk) 12. 08:08 AM - Re: Bending Brake Welding Question (CH701) 13. 08:08 AM - Re: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question (William Dominguez) 14. 08:30 AM - Re: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question (Bill Howerton) 15. 09:15 AM - Re: Dremel cutting bits... (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 09:27 AM - Re: Bending Brake Welding Question (Paul Mulwitz) 17. 09:36 AM - Re: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question (Aaron Gustafson) 18. 11:42 AM - Re: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question (LarryMcFarland) 19. 03:19 PM - Re: Bending Brake Welding Question (Zodie Rocket) 20. 03:22 PM - Re: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question (ron dewees) 21. 04:01 PM - Re: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question (Bill Cardell) 22. 04:35 PM - Re: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question (Bill Naumuk) 23. 05:09 PM - Re: Dremel cutting bits... (Leo Gates) 24. 05:51 PM - Rivet Protection (Bill Naumuk) 25. 06:27 PM - Re: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question (doug kandle) 26. 07:09 PM - Location for the NACA cockpit vent? (deglass1@aol.com) 27. 07:39 PM - Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? (N5SL) 28. 09:16 PM - Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? (Jeff Davidson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Sun-N-Fun BBQ From: "Martin Pohl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Martin Pohl" Thanks to everybody that helped organize the BBQ at Sun n Fun. The "swiss delegation" :D enjoyed the hamburgers, the strawberries and the sweet cake very very much!!! The talks with all of you were SUPER. Cheers and best regards Pascale & Martin -------- ________________________ Martin Pohl Zodiac XL QBK 8645 Jona, Switzerland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28513#28513 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:08 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez I bought Zenith bending brake plans and I have all the parts ready for welding. The end plates are 1/8 inch thick and need to be welded to the end of 4 x 4 angular that are 1/4 of an inch thick. Both material are steel. My questions are: - The manual recommends arc welding to avoid heat distortion. Is there any way that can be gas welded with no heat distortion? - If I gas weld, should I use a tip for 1/8 or a tip for 1/4 - What would be the most economical arc welder for this job? The cheapest ones welds up to 3/16 in a single pass, what does this mean? Will it weld thicker by multi passing? - Any other recommendation. I have no welding experience but I want to learn and I have enough scrap metal to practice. I also have Richard Finchs Welder Handbook. Thanks William Dominguez Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL Working on bending brake ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:08 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dremel cutting bits... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" For a full scale plane, a Dremel is like using a tack hammer to drive a railroad spike. I've never had any luck using one- always wound up having to go with a saber saw or snips in the past. The disks just don't hold up cutting .025, and the mills are slow as molasses. Can't wait for the next opportunity to try the Olfa knife. If your mind is made up to use a rotary tool, you're probably money ahead to invest in a die grinder. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dremel cutting bits... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist@cs.com > > Allen, While I find a Dremel useful, > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:49 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Tank Sealer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" I researched this very extensively before I used the Randolph 912 compound in my 801 tanks. The only failures I could find where the ones where there was a leak in an existing tank that already had fuel in them. That fuel leaves a residue that is next to impossible to remove for the compound to attach properly to the wall of the tank. There is not one instance where I found a failure in tanks that were treated while in a virgin { prefuel} state and properly prepped. I am sure there is additives out there somewhere they use in gas that might attack the compound though. YMMV.. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Graham Kirby" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" Stan, I've heard of people having problems with sloshing compounds breaking up in the tank when they are exposed to different fuel additives such as MTBE. Bits peel of the tank wall and hopefully get caught in the filter before reaching the carb. Perhaps if you stick to avgas you will be okay but I suggest you dig through the various archives before you make a final descision. It's easy enough to get the sloshing compound into the tank but a bugger to get it out if you change your mind :-). Graham Kirby 601HD =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D We previously built a 601 HDS and our EAA technical advisor strongly recommended we seal our tanks before installing them. We got Randolph Products #912 sloshing compound from Aircraft Spruce and sloshed all four tanks. While we never had any fuel leaks in the four + years we flew the aircraft I am now wondering if it is necessary with the Zenair tanks as they seem to be very professionally done. Stan Challgren 701/? I researched this very extensively before I used the Randolph 912 compound in my 801 tanks. The only failures I could find where the ones where there was a leak in an existing tank that already had fuel in them. That fuel leaves a residue that is next to impossible to remove for the compound to attach properly to the wall of the tank. There is not one instance where I found a failure in tanks that were treated while in a virgin { prefuel} state and properly prepped. I am sure there is additives out there somewhere they use in gas that might attack the compound though. YMMV.. BenHaas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com --"GrahamKirby"graham@601hd.comwrote: --Zenith-Listmessagepostedby:"GrahamKirby"graham@601hd.com Stan, I'veheardofpeoplehavingproblemswithsloshingcompoundsbreakingupin thetankwhentheyareexposedtodifferentfueladditivessuchasMTBE. Bitspeelofthetankwallandhopefullygetcaughtinthefilterbefore reachingthecarb. PerhapsifyousticktoavgasyouwillbeokaybutIsuggestyoudigthrough thevariousarchivesbeforeyoumakeafinaldescision.It'seasyenoughto getthesloshingcompoundintothetankbutabuggertogetitoutifyou changeyourmind:-). GrahamKirby 601HD =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Wepreviouslybuilta601HDSandourEAAtechnicaladvisorstrongly recommendedwesealourtanksbeforeinstallingthem.Wegot RandolphProducts#912sloshingcompoundfromAircraftSpruceand sloshedallfourtanks.Whileweneverhadanyfuelleaksinthe four+yearsweflewtheaircraftIamnowwonderingifitis necessarywiththeZenairtanksastheyseemtobevery professionallydone. StanChallgren 701/? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:32 AM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" Hi William. Would you have a link to direct me for buying these plans. Thanks Jean-Paul do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Dominguez" Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:54 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez > > I bought Zenith bending brake plans and I have all the > parts ready for welding. The end plates are 1/8 inch > thick and need to be welded to the end of 4 x 4 > angular that are 1/4 of an inch thick. Both material > are steel. My questions are: > > - The manual recommends arc welding to avoid heat > distortion. Is there any way that can be gas welded > with no heat distortion? > > - If I gas weld, should I use a tip for 1/8 or a tip > for 1/4 > > - What would be the most economical arc welder for > this job? The cheapest ones welds up to 3/16 in a > single pass, what does this mean? Will it weld thicker > by multi passing? > > - Any other recommendation. > > I have no welding experience but I want to learn and I > have enough scrap metal to practice. I also have > Richard Finchs Welder Handbook. > > Thanks > > William Dominguez > Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL > Working on bending brake > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:08 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave G." ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Dominguez" Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question The answer to most of your questions is "maybe". An experienced welder can gas weld and avoid heat distortion. An experienced welder can also get the best out of a low amp welder. Yes a low amp/inexpensive welder can weld thicker metal if you grind out the weld and make multiple passes. In truth when they claim 3/16th thay are pushing the envelope for many of the cheaper welders. You would likely be better served by cutting the pieces and getting it welded professionally. Perhaps you could tack it together and save a little that way. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:47 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez I ordered them by phone however, it is the same design as this one: http://www.ch601.org/tools/sm_brake_1.pdf http://www.ch601.org/tools/sm_brake_2.pdf Zenith plans are more detailed and for 20 bucks it is worth it. William Dominguez Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL Working on bending brake --- Jean-Paul Roy wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" > > > Hi William. Would you have a link to direct me for > buying these plans. > > Thanks > > Jean-Paul > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Dominguez" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:54 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William > Dominguez > > > > I bought Zenith bending brake plans and I have all > the > > parts ready for welding. The end plates are 1/8 > inch > > thick and need to be welded to the end of 4 x 4 > > angular that are 1/4 of an inch thick. Both > material > > are steel. My questions are: > > > > - The manual recommends arc welding to avoid heat > > distortion. Is there any way that can be gas > welded > > with no heat distortion? > > > > - If I gas weld, should I use a tip for 1/8 or a > tip > > for 1/4 > > > > - What would be the most economical arc welder for > > this job? The cheapest ones welds up to 3/16 in a > > single pass, what does this mean? Will it weld > thicker > > by multi passing? > > > > - Any other recommendation. > > > > I have no welding experience but I want to learn > and I > > have enough scrap metal to practice. I also have > > Richard Finchs Welder Handbook. > > > > Thanks > > > > William Dominguez > > Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL > > Working on bending brake > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > protection around ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:47 AM PST US From: "Jim Pellien" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MASPL Demonstrator Aircraft For Sale - Save over $12,000 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" Rotax 912ULS 100 hp Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of OK2AV8@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: MASPL Demonstrator Aircraft For Sale - Save over $12,000 --> Zenith-List message posted by: OK2AV8@aol.com Jim, Great description except one thing - which engine does N601VA have? Tim Garrett Zodiac XL with Jabiru 3300 (very similar to N601VA otherwise) N360TM - Getting ready for first flight... ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:32 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL William: You can gas weld it. Or, if you don't already have a wire-feed welder and have an extra $300, get one from Lowes or Home depot. With a little practice you can wire-feed weld like a pro. Just use the flux-core wire and don't worry about using gas (argon). Don't buy a stick welder for what we do on airplanes. If you want to gas-weld it, just keep the heat concentrated on the thicker part and make sure you get penetration on both parts. Cool the puddle with the filler rod as you go and don't work in one place too long. Do a short tack on one side, then the other, then 90 deg. from there and spread the welds around. Yesterday I was welding one of two tricky parts of my throttle linkage (gas welding) and I finished one weld perfectly. The second one I got impatient and kept going in one spot and melted the part off. It's a good thing my little helper wasn't around when the red hot part fell to the floor or she would have learned a new word. Good luck, Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/4_14_06_Throttle.JPG --- William Dominguez wrote: Is there any way that can be gas welded > with no heat distortion? > - What would be the most economical arc welder for > this job? The cheapest ones welds up to 3/16 in a > single pass, what does this mean? Will it weld thicker by multi passing? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:21 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland William, The larger tip would be the better tool for the material as it will spread the heat better and allow you to focus on the weld more easily if you decide to gas weld. Trying to weld with a lesser tip would require you slow down and spend too much time getting the metal to a puddle for welding. Arc welding is so fast that an arc of short segments can be made with very little or no distortion. Study the shrinkage that causes distortion and you'll be able to compensate for it. Welders are best described by their amperage, duty cycle and capacity for AC or DC. A 125 amp welder capable of AC or DC and able to switch select straight or reverse polarity should be a minimum requirement. You should find these at Harbor Freight for less than $250. Even a used welder can be a good buy. Ask for a Miller plastic slide guide that describes amp settings, polarity and rod size for most welding jobs. It will get you on centerline faster than a book. Do study Richards book though, because it is an excellent reference for aircraft and regular welding. Good luck, Larry McFarland do not archive William Dominguez wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez > >I bought Zenith bending brake plans and I have all the >parts ready for welding. The end plates are 1/8 inch >thick and need to be welded to the end of 4 x 4 >angular that are 1/4 of an inch thick. Both material >are steel. My questions are: > >- The manual recommends arc welding to avoid heat >distortion. Is there any way that can be gas welded >with no heat distortion? > >- If I gas weld, should I use a tip for 1/8 or a tip >for 1/4 > >- What would be the most economical arc welder for >this job? The cheapest ones welds up to 3/16 in a >single pass, what does this mean? Will it weld thicker >by multi passing? > >- Any other recommendation. > >I have no welding experience but I want to learn and I >have enough scrap metal to practice. I also have >Richard Finchs Welder Handbook. > >Thanks > >William Dominguez >Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL >Working on bending brake > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:21 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Bill- I've used a Lincoln stick welder of one model or another for over 35 years. Just what I'm familiar with, I suppose. Best if you have access to 240V. You can get a dual steel/aluminum model for around $300 US if you watch for the sales. Problem is, gold is cheaper than the aluminum rods. When I was a teenager, I welded the roll cage for a stock car where the driver caught a T bone right at him. The well case bent as much as 6", but the welds never broke. I had maybe 75 hours experience with the welder at that point. Suppose you could say you don't have to worry whether the welder was capable. Not me, the machine! Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Dominguez" Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:54 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez > > I bought Zenith bending brake plans and I have all the > parts ready for welding. > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:48 AM PST US From: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com> Attn: Mark Townsend I'm sure many posts to the list, from those that have viewed the Homebuilt Help Video, are looking for plans to the bender you have constructed (as shown in the video). Are yours plans available to us scratch-builders? Thanks, Todd Henning -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Dominguez Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:17 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez --> I ordered them by phone however, it is the same design as this one: http://www.ch601.org/tools/sm_brake_1.pdf http://www.ch601.org/tools/sm_brake_2.pdf Zenith plans are more detailed and for 20 bucks it is worth it. William Dominguez Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL Working on bending brake --- Jean-Paul Roy wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" > > > Hi William. Would you have a link to direct me for buying these plans. > > Thanks > > Jean-Paul > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Dominguez" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:54 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William > Dominguez > > > > I bought Zenith bending brake plans and I have all > the > > parts ready for welding. The end plates are 1/8 > inch > > thick and need to be welded to the end of 4 x 4 angular that are 1/4 > > of an inch thick. Both > material > > are steel. My questions are: > > > > - The manual recommends arc welding to avoid heat distortion. Is > > there any way that can be gas > welded > > with no heat distortion? > > > > - If I gas weld, should I use a tip for 1/8 or a > tip > > for 1/4 > > > > - What would be the most economical arc welder for this job? The > > cheapest ones welds up to 3/16 in a single pass, what does this > > mean? Will it weld > thicker > > by multi passing? > > > > - Any other recommendation. > > > > I have no welding experience but I want to learn > and I > > have enough scrap metal to practice. I also have Richard Finchs > > Welder Handbook. > > > > Thanks > > > > William Dominguez > > Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL > > Working on bending brake > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > protection around ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:50 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez Thanks Scott, I've been fighting the temptation to buy the Lincoln Electric Weldpack 100 HD for $350, it seem that it will do the job. My problem is that this might be the only arc welding Ill be doing in this project, after this it will be sitting in my shop collecting dust. So far Ive contacted one professional welder and he is asking $120 if I go to his shop and $180 if he do it in my home. I have a friend who can stick weld it but he has been unavailable lately. William Dominguez Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL Working on bending brake --- N5SL wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > > William: > > You can gas weld it. Or, if you don't already have > a > wire-feed welder and have an extra $300, get one > from > Lowes or Home depot. With a little practice you can > wire-feed weld like a pro. Just use the flux-core > wire and don't worry about using gas (argon). Don't > buy a stick welder for what we do on airplanes. > > If you want to gas-weld it, just keep the heat > concentrated on the thicker part and make sure you > get > penetration on both parts. Cool the puddle with the > filler rod as you go and don't work in one place too > long. Do a short tack on one side, then the other, > then 90 deg. from there and spread the welds around. > > Yesterday I was welding one of two tricky parts of > my > throttle linkage (gas welding) and I finished one > weld > perfectly. The second one I got impatient and kept > going in one spot and melted the part off. It's a > good thing my little helper wasn't around when the > red > hot part fell to the floor or she would have learned > a > new word. > > Good luck, > > Scott Laughlin > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/4_14_06_Throttle.JPG > > --- William Dominguez wrote: > > Is there any way that can be gas welded > > with no heat distortion? > > > - What would be the most economical arc welder for > > this job? The cheapest ones welds up to 3/16 in a > > single pass, what does this mean? Will it weld > thicker by multi passing? > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:03 AM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" I've got the same dilemma. I've got an oxy-acetylene welder that I've had for years, but even trying to use it on 6061 has resulted in nothing more aluminum slag. Now I have reason to do some welding on my plane - specifically the overflow tube on my right wing broke off while I was transporting it to the hangar, and I am more inclined to buy a TIG welder that I can use for other things than to pay $100 (or more) to have a welder come out to my shop for a one-time fix. Does anybody have a good suggestion for a small TIG welder that runs on 120V and doesn't cost an arm and a leg? ----- Original Message ----- From: William Dominguez To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez Thanks Scott, I've been fighting the temptation to buy the Lincoln Electric Weldpack 100 HD for $350, it seem that it will do the job. My problem is that this might be the only arc welding Ill be doing in this project, after this it will be sitting in my shop collecting dust. So far Ive contacted one professional welder and he is asking $120 if I go to his shop and $180 if he do it in my home. I have a friend who can stick weld it but he has been unavailable lately. William Dominguez Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL Working on bending brake --- N5SL wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL > > > William: > > You can gas weld it. Or, if you don't already have > a > wire-feed welder and have an extra $300, get one > from > Lowes or Home depot. With a little practice you can > wire-feed weld like a pro. Just use the flux-core > wire and don't worry about using gas (argon). Don't > buy a stick welder for what we do on airplanes. > > If you want to gas-weld it, just keep the heat > concentrated on the thicker part and make sure you > get > penetration on both parts. Cool the puddle with the > filler rod as you go and don't work in one place too > long. Do a short tack on one side, then the other, > then 90 deg. from there and spread the welds around. > > Yesterday I was welding one of two tricky parts of > my > throttle linkage (gas welding) and I finished one > weld > perfectly. The second one I got impatient and kept > going in one spot and melted the part off. It's a > good thing my little helper wasn't around when the > red > hot part fell to the floor or she would have learned > a > new word. > > Good luck, > > Scott Laughlin > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/4_14_06_Throttle.JPG > > --- William Dominguez wrote: > > Is there any way that can be gas welded > > with no heat distortion? > > > - What would be the most economical arc welder for > > this job? The cheapest ones welds up to 3/16 in a > > single pass, what does this mean? Will it weld > thicker by multi passing? > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Dremel cutting bits... From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yup die grinders are dirt cheap and fast at cuttig metal or plastics...Used with rotary burrs are great bang for the buck...Using 3" cutting disks are great. I would still use a jig saw to get the rough opening for the baggage lockers...finish with snips= no edge distortion. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 5:53 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dremel cutting bits... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" For a full scale plane, a Dremel is like using a tack hammer to drive a railroad spike. I've never had any luck using one- always wound up having to go with a saber saw or snips in the past. The disks just don't hold up cutting .025, and the mills are slow as molasses. Can't wait for the next opportunity to try the Olfa knife. If your mind is made up to use a rotary tool, you're probably money ahead to invest in a die grinder. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dremel cutting bits... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist@cs.com > > Allen, While I find a Dremel useful, > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:25 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I think arc welding in all forms is potentially much more dangerous than gas welding. The energy developed in the arc can produce all sorts of damage to humans from sunburn to radiation poisoning to blindness. Gas welding has none of these risks associated with it - but you certainly can get your fingers burned. I learned gas welding from a book many years ago and have used it from time to time. I don't think there are any size limits to the process - just limits brought on by the size of the acetylene tank you have. There are also no real limits in the processes you can do including welding, brazing, cutting, and other useful things. To prevent warping in heavy steel like you described, all you really need to do is tack weld the corners and perhaps a couple of places in the middle of the joint and then fill in the bead for the length of the joint. The tack welds will hold the pieces in place and prevent bending. Good luck, Paul XL wings >- The manual recommends arc welding to avoid heat >distortion. Is there any way that can be gas welded >with no heat distortion? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:26 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" I don't know if there is such a thing as a small inexpensive TIG welder. Last time I was tempted, a Lincoln 175 was about $1300. Aaron do not archive > Does anybody have a good suggestion for a small TIG welder that runs on > 120V and doesn't cost an arm and a leg? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:26 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Bill, I welded my first aircraft fuel tanks with oxyacetylene and it was much like riding a unicycle in a dark room. Joint design and material selection are the critical issues with gas, but it can be done. You need to work in 3000 or 5052 series aluminum to get good results with gas. Do lap joints to get better at it. Edge welds are easy but notoriously weak in gas welding. The cheapest thing I've seen is a TIG and ARC welding solid state inverter technology unit from Harbor Freight for $250. Not sure how durable or repairable it would be, but it might work for you. See link. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91811 I use a Miller Syncrowave that does TIG nicely but it was expensive at $1500 or so. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Bill Howerton wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" > >I've got the same dilemma. I've got an oxy-acetylene welder that I've had for years, but even trying to use it on 6061 has resulted in nothing more aluminum slag. Now I have reason to do some welding on my plane - specifically the overflow tube on my right wing broke off while I was transporting it to the hangar, and I am more inclined to buy a TIG welder that I can use for other things than to pay $100 (or more) to have a welder come out to my shop for a one-time fix. > >Does anybody have a good suggestion for a small TIG welder that runs on 120V and doesn't cost an arm and a leg? > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:50 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Hi Todd and others, I designed my brake from the ground up for the sole use of building the Zodiac and Sky Jeep in mind, using simple materials and a cheap cost. In that, the brake works like a charm, but my hand scribbling to work out the math necessary to get the brake to work well is a mess, I did not even use a ruler. I do not own AutoCAD software nor do I know how to use such software, I am just a plane builder. So several months ago a fellow visiting my shop asked to take measured drawings of the brake and has offered to send me the finished drawings that were mentioned in the DVD from Homebuilthelp.com. To date I still have not seen those drawings, he is still promising them to me and he is a trustworthy type of person, after all he is building a Zenith! Therefore, as soon as I have them (and he will also get this post) I will add them to the website. I hope that it will be sooner then later! Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CH701 Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 11:08 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com> Attn: Mark Townsend I'm sure many posts to the list, from those that have viewed the Homebuilt Help Video, are looking for plans to the bender you have constructed (as shown in the video). Are yours plans available to us scratch-builders? Thanks, Todd Henning -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Dominguez Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:17 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez --> I ordered them by phone however, it is the same design as this one: http://www.ch601.org/tools/sm_brake_1.pdf http://www.ch601.org/tools/sm_brake_2.pdf Zenith plans are more detailed and for 20 bucks it is worth it. William Dominguez Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL Working on bending brake --- Jean-Paul Roy wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" > > > Hi William. Would you have a link to direct me for buying these plans. > > Thanks > > Jean-Paul > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Dominguez" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:54 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brake Welding Question > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William > Dominguez > > > > I bought Zenith bending brake plans and I have all > the > > parts ready for welding. The end plates are 1/8 > inch > > thick and need to be welded to the end of 4 x 4 angular that are 1/4 > > of an inch thick. Both > material > > are steel. My questions are: > > > > - The manual recommends arc welding to avoid heat distortion. Is > > there any way that can be gas > welded > > with no heat distortion? > > > > - If I gas weld, should I use a tip for 1/8 or a > tip > > for 1/4 > > > > - What would be the most economical arc welder for this job? The > > cheapest ones welds up to 3/16 in a single pass, what does this > > mean? Will it weld > thicker > > by multi passing? > > > > - Any other recommendation. > > > > I have no welding experience but I want to learn > and I > > have enough scrap metal to practice. I also have Richard Finchs > > Welder Handbook. > > > > Thanks > > > > William Dominguez > > Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL > > Working on bending brake > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > protection around -- -- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:07 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees I second the Lincoln 175. I got one at SnF several years ago and took the ACS welding course. It's expensive compared to a cheap stick welder but wonderfully versatile and effective. I had tried gas welding aluminum, using a Henrob torch, and cheap aluminum solder with no success but the Lincoln made every welding job possible. It still takes a lot of practive but you will be amazed at the times you use it that you wouldn't have thought about welding before you got it. Bite the bullet! Ron do not arachive Aaron Gustafson wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" > >I don't know if there is such a thing as a small inexpensive TIG welder. >Last time I was tempted, a Lincoln 175 was about $1300. > >Aaron do not archive > > > > >>Does anybody have a good suggestion for a small TIG welder that runs on >>120V and doesn't cost an arm and a leg? >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:13 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question From: "Bill Cardell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Cardell" These guys: http://www.htpweld.com/ have some really nice machines and I see they've introduced a new small tig. I've got their 201 Invertig and like it a lot. No affiliation, blah, blah. Do not archive TurboDog's Dad Bill Cardell www.flyinmiata.com 1-800-FLY-MX5S 970-242-3800 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron dewees Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees I second the Lincoln 175. I got one at SnF several years ago and took the ACS welding course. It's expensive compared to a cheap stick welder but wonderfully versatile and effective. I had tried gas welding aluminum, using a Henrob torch, and cheap aluminum solder with no success but the Lincoln made every welding job possible. It still takes a lot of practive but you will be amazed at the times you use it that you wouldn't have thought about welding before you got it. Bite the bullet! Ron do not arachive Aaron Gustafson wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" >--> > >I don't know if there is such a thing as a small inexpensive TIG welder. >Last time I was tempted, a Lincoln 175 was about $1300. > >Aaron do not archive > > > > >>Does anybody have a good suggestion for a small TIG welder that runs >>on 120V and doesn't cost an arm and a leg? >> >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:52 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" All- Did I happen to mention that, last I knew, even the "Cheap Stick Welder" from Lincoln was MADE IN THE STATES? If they've outsourced since the last time I checked- don't tell me. It's nice to be able to point to at least one superior product that was competitively priced with a sticker that said "Made in the USA". Don't get me wrong- if it weren't for Harbor Freight, we'd all have more money in our tools than in our projects. Lincoln was the notable exception. Talk about irony.I was once talking computers with a member of a heavy equipment trade delegation from Belarus (Old "White" Russia). We got on the subject of how cheap RAM had become, and I noted that most of it was now made in Taiwan. He snorted and said "That's the good stuff- now everything comes from Indonesia". What can you say. MiG outsourced to China years ago........... Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron dewees" Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:21 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees > > I second the Lincoln 175. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:28 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dremel cutting bits... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates Allen, Use #309 Cutoff Disks in a Dremel tool - not router. These are very thin and somewhat fragil. Use "Superglue" to glue two together. Much stronger and will last until worn down. Leo Gates N601Z Do not archive Allen Ricks wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" > >Fellow listers, > >In follow-up to my previous post about cutting out panels for access and >wing lockers... > >Those of you that have used a dremel tool for "routing" out panels, etc. >What >bit (please be specific if you know) did you use for the task. I have been >practicing on scraps. This method works pretty well, but the cutting bits I >have are "grabbier" than I would like. > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:50 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet Protection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" All- Been checking out the list during breaks from the neverending task of pulling A5s on the center wing. Found out a piece of cardboard with a hole big enough to clear the head of your riveter in the middle works as a shield to keep from garfing up the skin when the riveter "Jumps". I know, if I would have bought a pneumatic riveter I wouldn't be typing with my elbows. Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:02 PM PST US From: doug kandle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas-Welding or Arc-Welding Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle I have found the people in my EAA chapter to be a real help on things like this. If you have a chapter nearby, then you will likely find a good welder among the members who be very happy to help you with a welding task. So, if you are not already a member of your local EAA chapter then join it. You will find lots of resources there. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:01 PM PST US From: deglass1@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? --> Zenith-List message posted by: deglass1@aol.com As sort of a survey for the list of XL kit builders: I'm preparing to install the NACA cockpit air vent (6B20-4) just behind the firewall, between the second and third stiffeners per the plans. In that location, the vent appears to be close interference for the outside foot on the pedals on each side, even with my size-10 shoe as a trial fit. I noticed on XLs at Sun'n Fun that some were placed per plans, but the commercially finished XLs (AMD) had the vents higher and farther aft, as do about half the XLs in the Zenith albums. Do any of you have the higher location, and anyone who built per plans wish you had placed the vents higher and more aft? Or is the plans location not in the way after all? Thanks, and I enjoyed meeting some of you at the BBQ! David G Forest (near Lynchburg) VA ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:46 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL I put mine here and so far it hasn't run into anything and allows for installation of my BRS harness: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/4_1_06_Kitplanes.JPG --- deglass1@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: deglass1@aol.com > > As sort of a survey for the list of XL kit builders: > I'm preparing to install the NACA cockpit air vent > (6B20-4) just behind > the firewall, ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:03 PM PST US From: "Jeff Davidson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Davidson" David Wrote " I'm preparing to install the NACA cockpit air vent (6B20-4) just behind the firewall, between the second and third stiffeners per the plans. In that location, the vent appears to be close interference for the outside foot on the pedals on each side, ..." I installed mine in the location between the 2nd and 3rd L stiffener. It now is a sharp turn to put in the tubing to the eyeball vent in the panel, or even to in a triangle shaped addition below the panel. Higher would be better if you will use tubing to move the air to a "remote" eyeball vent. N601VA has the eyeball part directly on the vent. You have to reach down and move it. Of course, that is always after you have tightened the seatbelt! Where you put the vent is partially determined by where you want the air to come out in the cockpit, as much as by the aerodynamics of the vent itself. Jeff Davidson