---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/18/06: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:13 AM - Re: Corvair engine failure (Paul Mulwitz) 2. 03:19 AM - Re: Murphy's law did not apply (Michel Therrien) 3. 03:19 AM - Re: Murphy's law did not apply (Michel Therrien) 4. 03:30 AM - Re: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? (Peter Franke) 5. 04:01 AM - Re: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? (Trevor Page) 6. 05:33 AM - Re: Murphy's law did not apply (William Dominguez) 7. 05:36 AM - 701 brake lines? (Zed Smith) 8. 05:57 AM - Re: Remove from list (Tommy Walker) 9. 07:02 AM - Re: Corvair engine failure (Gig Giacona) 10. 07:07 AM - Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? (Gig Giacona) 11. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: Remove from list (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 12. 07:14 AM - Re: (OT) Moving to Orlando? (Phil Maxson) 13. 07:16 AM - rivets vs bolts (Fritz Gurschick) 14. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: Remove from list (Carlos Sa) 15. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? (Trainnut01@aol.com) 16. 08:33 AM - Leo J. Corbalis Obituary (Craig Moore) 17. 08:48 AM - Re: Murphy's law did not apply (Michel Therrien) 18. 09:24 AM - 801 on Full Lotus Floats (Keystone Engineering LLC) 19. 09:32 AM - Re: 701 brake lines? (Chuck Deiterich) 20. 09:59 AM - Re: 701 brake lines? (Zed Smith) 21. 11:49 AM - full throttle ????? (Fritz Gurschick) 22. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? (Craig Payne) 23. 12:26 PM - Re: 701 brake lines? (Roger Roy) 24. 01:55 PM - Re: full throttle ????? (Leo Gates) 25. 02:45 PM - Re: 701 brake lines? (Geoff Heap) 26. 03:18 PM - Radiator Placement (sales@steelframe) 27. 04:22 PM - Re: Radiator Placement (LarryMcFarland) 28. 04:25 PM - Re: rivets vs bolts (Allen Ricks) 29. 06:51 PM - Re: full throttle ????? (Jean-Paul Roy) 30. 07:29 PM - Re: Radiator Placement (Michel Therrien) 31. 08:58 PM - Re: Re: Corvair engine failure (ROBERT SCEPPA) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:13 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair engine failure --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz One way to have this kind of problem is to have the wrong prop pitch. If the pitch number is too small, then all the torque in the world won't make the plane go fast enough to fly well. It is like trying to drive 60 miles per hour in first gear. There may have been perfect operation of the Corvair engine and still have a power plant unable to make the plane fly. Of course I don't know whether or not this happened to the unfortunate flyer who lost his plane on the first flight. If he had practiced take-off and landing with just a few feet of altitude he could have determined how much runway was needed and possibly avoided this horrible loss. After learning the plane wouldn't climb properly he could have gone back to the hangar and analyzed the problem with his plane still intact. On the brighter side -- it could have been worse. Paul XL wings Do not archive At 09:10 PM 4/17/2006, you wrote: >On take off the observer noticed > > that the plane had not climbed to its appropiate > > altitude and had run out of runway. The plane had > > only reached an altitude of 200 or 300 feet --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:16 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Murphy's law did not apply --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien The rivets were the A5 Avex rivets that we use to build the plane.... I know one of my friend has a similar setup, but with AD rivets (solid rivets) and he has not have that situation. (yet?) Seriously, I don't think our soft pull rivets measure up with AD solid rivets in term of resistance to fatigue and strenght. Michel do not archive --- JohnDRead@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JohnDRead@aol.com > > Hi Michel: > Were the rivets steel or aluminum? > > John (soon to start building a CH710) > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:16 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Murphy's law did not apply --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien The plate is made of 6061-t6, 0.063". It would sure be a better idea to weld a 4130 plate, but at that time, I had no steel and no talent for welding. I looked at my plate yesterday, no distorsion on it, no cracks and the hole for the pushrod is still very much round... I'll put it back in. do not archive. --- JohnDRead@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JohnDRead@aol.com > > Hi Michel: > I took look at your pictures. Why > did you not weld the > modified bracket as opposed to rivets? > > John > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:03 AM PST US From: "Peter Franke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Franke" Trev, With the Vans eyeball vents, how well do u find that they work? I've heard rumours that the plastic type supplied don't seal well when closed. Cheers, Peter Franke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Page" Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page > > Gig, I actually opted for the Vans kit which gives you the eyeball > vents, hoses and NACA ducts. Total was about $60 for both sides and > worked out really good. Glad I did, it gets very hot under that > canopy and the eyeball vents make it very easy to control > temperatures when flying. > > Trev Page > C-IDUS 601HD R912 > > > On Apr 17, 2006, at 5:03 PM, Gig Giacona wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" > > > > Since we're on the subject of the NACA vent does anybody have a > > template for the cutout for the one that Zenith supplies? > > > > -------- > > W.R. Gig Giacona > > 601XL Under Construction > > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28984#28984 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:12 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page Peter, they seem fine to me. I fly in warm weather most of the time so I tend to use them. If I recall they might leak a little bit but it's never bothered me. Michel Therien has them as well and he's done more flying then me so perhaps he can chime in on this. Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 On Apr 18, 2006, at 6:27 AM, Peter Franke wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Franke" > > Trev, > > With the Vans eyeball vents, how well do u find that they work? > I've heard > rumours that the plastic type supplied don't seal well when closed. > > Cheers, > Peter Franke > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Trevor Page" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page >> >> Gig, I actually opted for the Vans kit which gives you the eyeball >> vents, hoses and NACA ducts. Total was about $60 for both sides and >> worked out really good. Glad I did, it gets very hot under that >> canopy and the eyeball vents make it very easy to control >> temperatures when flying. >> >> Trev Page >> C-IDUS 601HD R912 >> >> >> On Apr 17, 2006, at 5:03 PM, Gig Giacona wrote: >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" >>> >>> >>> Since we're on the subject of the NACA vent does anybody have a >>> template for the cutout for the one that Zenith supplies? >>> >>> -------- >>> W.R. Gig Giacona >>> 601XL Under Construction >>> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28984#28984 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:32 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Murphy's law did not apply --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez I read or saw somewhere that throttle linkage need to be installed in such way that in case of failure, the spring should open the throttle to full position instead of closing it. Then you will use mixture control to reduce power and when in final for landing, you can turn off the engine and glide to the runnway. I thought this was common practice. Is there a reason why not to do this? William Dominguez Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL --- Michel Therrien wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > > Hello group! > > Well, this evening, I've been lucky with some bad > luck > (or more precisely, bad design). > > After dinner, I decided to go flying at sunset. I > departed CSB3 at 19h30EAT and went to Mascouche > (CSK3). Then, I took position to depart from runway > 11. Several seconds after applying full throttle, > the > engine came back to idle and the throttle lever was > non effective. The plane started to decelerate on > the > runway. > > I parked it at the end of the runway, removed the > cowling and quickly noticed that my throttle lever > was > disassembled. When I modified the carburetor, I cut > down the throttle lever and made a plate what would > accomodate the throttle push rod I'm using. This > plate is (or was) attached to the Carburetor > throttle > arm with two A5 Avex rivets. > > The plane flew more than 200 hours before the rivets > failed ant the plate detached from the throttle arm! > > Should Murphy have made this happen 10 seconds > later, > I,would have been in deep s..t (there are no good > options for emergency landings during a moment after > take off on that runway). But the law did not apply > and I simply had a good workout pulling the plane to > a > hangar I have access to (which was near the other > end > of the runway). > > Here are some pictures showing that plate: > > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/DCP02135.JPG > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/DCP02158.JPG > > This being said, I would suggest looking at any > situation where a couple of rivets hold a critical > part that is subject to constant stress and > vibration. > These two rivets will be replaced with two AN3 > bolts > and lock nuts in the next few days! > > Michel :-) > > > ---------------------------- > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:01 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: 701 brake lines? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith List, My pile of ZAC-supplied brake parts included two tees. Can anybody offer advice as to where these might go? I have MC-5/MC-4 master/slave setup for dual brakes. The Matco site has a nice PDF which addresses the issue of plumbing the lines, yet the "pick list" from ZAC included these tee-fittings. ZAC mistake, or am I missing something? This shouldn't be rocket science, but I'm still wondering what these parts might have been intended for. Also, the ZAC-supplied brake lines are the nearly clear nylon.....and I'm accustomed to metal. Is this stuff going to stay put in compression fittings? As always, thanks. Oh yes......101 degrees F yesterday in north Texas, more today; rolling blackouts scheduled for mid-afternoon. May have to run the engine as a fan! do not archive Zed/701/R912/90.003%/etc ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Remove from list From: "Tommy Walker" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal. wrote: > Please remove this account from your list. Recipient is deceased. > > Thank you Does anyone have information about Leo? Thanks, Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29101#29101 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:49 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair engine failure From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" You stated the plane on developed partial power. Was this a low RPM issue or did the plane just not accelerate to the speed necessary to allow a proper climb once out of ground effect? Since he didn't abort the take off roll I would hope it is the later and if so look at the prop pitch. -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29115#29115 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" I had always planned to duct the vent and add an eyeball to direct the air. Acctually my plan is to put a valved Y behind the eyeball so the same vent would be used for both cabin heat and "cold" air. I'll check this weekend and see if the cutout for the metal "HD" vent is the same as the plastic and report back. -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29122#29122 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:46 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Remove from list From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I wrote back to ask yesterday but did not receive a reply yet. Leo was a regular and valuable contributor to this list. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Walker Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 5:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Remove from list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal. wrote: > Please remove this account from your list. Recipient is deceased. > > Thank you Does anyone have information about Leo? Thanks, Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive -------- Tommy Walker Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29101#29101 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:01 AM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: (OT) Moving to Orlando? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" You should check out these guys: www.flycorvair.com William Wynne has the fastest 601XL built to date. They are located about 45 minutes away from Orlando. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair N601MX >From: "Richard T. Perry" >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: (OT) Moving to Orlando? >Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 02:16:15 +0000 > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard T. Perry" > >Folks - I've recently accepted a position working in Orlando, FL. I'd love >to talk to anyone who lives in the area about both the city in general and >the GA/homebuilding "scene" in particular. Particularly, I'd be interested >in finding a GA airport in the area with reasonable hangar space/costs (so >I >can finally start the aircraft project I've been planning now for some >years.) > >Please contact me off the list if you have any comments - I'd love to hear >them! > >Do not archive, please. > >Regards, > >Richard T. Perry perryrt@hotmail.com >"Fraser, there's a guy on my corner who asks me every >morning if I've seen God; do you really think he >expects me to point Him out?" >"Well, you know, Ray, if you did, perhaps he'd stop >asking." > >Ray Vecchio and Benton Fraser, "Hawk and a Handsaw", Due_South > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:33 AM PST US From: Fritz Gurschick Subject: Zenith-List: rivets vs bolts --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick List, I try to keep my posts to a minimum, but feel this issue is worth giving my two cents worth. First I am glad Michel or his airplane did not get hurt during his incident. I do not intend to try and outthink Chris Hientz as I have nothing but the most respect for the man. I built my 701 as per the plans (scratch built). After many flight hours and several condition inspections it was found that several rivets which were installed on a support bracket for the center elevator hinge had come loose. I immediately replaced two of these A-5 rivets with AN 3 bolts. Having gone thru this experience with the 701. Now, on the 601 XL which I am scratch building, I install several (depending on its design and how many rivets used) AN 3 bolts on any bracket which has external (push/ pull) forces applied to it. I.E. the support bracket for the Aileron bellcrank. Over-kill ? yes, maybe? But I know I will enjoy flying a lot more knowing that those parts which aren't seen on every preflight, are not going to come loose on me. ( I know that ZAC also sells stainless A-5 rivets as used on mounting the rudder pedal/ toe brake hinges) Here, I expect an outcry of: weight control !!! I am well aware of it, and thus would rather go without the Big Mac on days which I fly. Please take Michel's post seriously, and look for any similar situation on YOUR airplane.-------Fritz --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:11 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Remove from list --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa The only things I know is that (1) his last post was in Nov/05, and (2) a similar note (remove from list) appeared on Aero-'lectric. Sadly, it looks like it is true. Carlos Montreal, Canada --- Tommy Walker wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" > > > leocorbalis(at)sbcglobal. wrote: > > Please remove this account from your list. Recipient is deceased. > > > > Thank you > > > Does anyone have information about Leo? > > Thanks, > > Tommy Walker in Alabama > Do Not Archive > > -------- > Tommy Walker ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:04 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com Peter, I had the problem you describe on my RV7A. The plastic eyeballs from Van's do not close well at all. I replaced them with aluminum eyeballs from Affordable Panels, these seal completely but are very expensive. Carroll Jernigan do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:30 AM PST US From: Craig Moore Subject: Zenith-List: Leo J. Corbalis Obituary --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore All, I found this online in the archives of the San Jose' Mercury News - Leo J. Corbalis CA, United States Major Leo J. Corbalis USAF, Ret. Entered into repose in Saratoga on Dec. 5, 2005. Beloved husband to Betty, and father to Leo, Charles, Hugh, Catherine, and Mary. Devoted grandfather of nineteen. A career Air Force pilot, he flew B-47 bombers and moved to Titan II missile command. Retired to California in 1970 and went into electronics and communications. An avid pilot, he built and flew his own experimental aircraft.. . A devoted Catholic, by word and example. Published on December 8, 2005, San Jose Mercury News (CA) His aircraft is also listed for sale here - http://www.airplanedreams.com/Aircraft/AircraftPages/N1229G.aspx Pray for his family. Best to all, Craig Moore ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:00 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Murphy's law did not apply --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien I had the same thought yesterday... I heard that Rotax engines are designed this way (full throttle in case of throttle failure). I'll be looking at how to implement something similar on my installation. Michel PS: But all of this is temporary :-) More on that very soon! --- William Dominguez wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez > > > I read or saw somewhere that throttle linkage need > to > be installed in such way that in case of failure, > the > spring should open the throttle to full position > instead of closing it. Then you will use mixture > control to reduce power and when in final for > landing, > you can turn off the engine and glide to the > runnway. > I thought this was common practice. Is there a > reason > why not to do this? > > > > William Dominguez > Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL > > ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:39 AM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: 801 on Full Lotus Floats --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC OH what a night. Last night weighted my 801 on Full Lotus floats. I just finished installing the floats. Well, I still need to figure out how to lift the water rudder (the devil is in the details!)... I took my 801 off floats and put it back on wheels. I then weighed it again. I weighed it from the lifting eyes I bolted to the main spar with a halibut scale I borrowed from the local fish cannery. My left wing is still 20 lbs heaver than my right. When lifting it from the main spar the force needed to balance the plane on the tail was downward. It turns out the empty CG is 2-3" forward of the main spar. On floats the empty the weight is 1379 lbs with the CG at 415 mm On wheels the empty the weight is 1208 lbs with the CG at 396.2 mm My 801 gained 33 lbs over the last 2 years. Most of that was probably from changing from 8.00x6 tires to 8.5x6 tires on the mains. I also had 7 quarts of oil in the engine. Who knows dirt and oil probably added a couple of pounds. When the lakes thaw up here I will put it back on floats. I am really looking forward to float flying this year! I need to send Nick a note and ask what the allowable gross weight is on floats. I have heard it is often several hundred pounds heaver on floats than on wheels. There is no way I will get to Vne on floats. I wanted to be on wheels for the Valdez May Day fly-in. I borrowed a climb prop so hopefully I will be sub 100' on my take off distance in the short field contest this year . Last year I was 139'. Bill Wilcox N801BW Valdez, AK 250 hrs I'm ready to go to the beach! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:42 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 brake lines? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Zed, I sent you some pictures of my 701 brakes but you computer would not accept them from me. Sorry. Chuck D. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zed Smith" Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:35 AM Subject: Zenith-List: 701 brake lines? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > List, > > My pile of ZAC-supplied brake parts included two tees. Can anybody offer advice as to where these might go? > > I have MC-5/MC-4 master/slave setup for dual brakes. The Matco site has a nice PDF which addresses the issue of plumbing the lines, yet the "pick list" from ZAC included these tee-fittings. ZAC mistake, or am I missing something? > > This shouldn't be rocket science, but I'm still wondering what these parts might have been intended for. > > Also, the ZAC-supplied brake lines are the nearly clear nylon.....and I'm accustomed to metal. Is this stuff going to stay put in compression fittings? > > As always, thanks. > > Oh yes......101 degrees F yesterday in north Texas, more today; rolling blackouts scheduled for mid-afternoon. > May have to run the engine as a fan! > > do not archive > > Zed/701/R912/90.003%/etc > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:02 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 brake lines? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Chuck, Added you to my "approved list" and got the photos. Thanks. Mine will be exactly as you show.....I had decided on that routing, but sure did wonder about the tees. I had also looked at the ZAC builders stuff. Not much mention of brakes, but the hose routing on the dual-caliper wheels was evident in the Gear Section. I have a vacuum pump from ER that they decided to dispose of.... small fractional-horse motor with rotary pump, pint jar, hoses, etc. If you reverse the hoses it makes a neat "pusher/pressure" pump.....just put the brake fluid in the jar and flip the switch. It puts air into the closed jar thru one tube forcing the fluid out the other tube and up the bleeder valve. It has about as much pressure a fellow could exert by blowing with his mouth. Works great. Used it on the previous plane and loaned it to others, too. Again, thanks! Zed ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:08 AM PST US From: Fritz Gurschick Subject: Zenith-List: full throttle ????? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick List, Full throttle in case of linkage failure ??? When building my 701, I had the very same thoughts about going "full throttle" with any linkage failure. It sounded like a great idea to me. I talked it over with a couple of friends, and they both said the same thing: "What if you have a throttle failure on engine start, at a fly-in, crowed ramp conditions, with all kinds of people and airplanes around". In a panic situation, the shut-down procedure might not get done as quickly as one might expect and a lot of folks and equipment could be severly damaged. I opted for a conventional set up, make the throttle system as "murphy proof" as possible and check it on every preflight. I feel the dangers of "full throttle, if linkage fails" outweigh the advantages. (Of course it all depends on when the failure occurs, In Michel's situation it would have paid off, but what if it had happened 15-20 minutes earlier ??-------my opimion only--- Fritz --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:37 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Location for the NACA cockpit vent? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Vans also sells the (expensive} all-metal eyeball vents: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1145387743-78-363&brow se=heatvent&product=sv-6 Or as a tiny URL: http://tinyurl.com/pqajz SteinAir is promising a cheaper all-metal solution: http://www.steinair.com/eyeballvents.htm -- Craig ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:38 PM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 brake lines? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Hi Chuck, I'd like to see your 701 brake installation if you care to send me those photo's thanks RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Deiterich" Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 brake lines? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" > > Zed, > I sent you some pictures of my 701 brakes but you computer would not > accept > them from me. Sorry. > Chuck D. > Do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zed Smith" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:35 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: 701 brake lines? > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > > > List, > > > > My pile of ZAC-supplied brake parts included two tees. Can anybody > > offer > advice as to where these might go? > > > > I have MC-5/MC-4 master/slave setup for dual brakes. The Matco site has > > a > nice PDF which addresses the issue of plumbing the lines, yet the "pick > list" from ZAC included these tee-fittings. ZAC mistake, or am I missing > something? > > > > This shouldn't be rocket science, but I'm still wondering what these > > parts > might have been intended for. > > > > Also, the ZAC-supplied brake lines are the nearly clear nylon.....and > > I'm > accustomed to metal. Is this stuff going to stay put in compression > fittings? > > > > As always, thanks. > > > > Oh yes......101 degrees F yesterday in north Texas, more today; rolling > blackouts scheduled for mid-afternoon. > > May have to run the engine as a fan! > > > > do not archive > > > > Zed/701/R912/90.003%/etc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:46 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: full throttle ????? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates List, I am very happy with my Rotax 912 throttle hook-up. I always start the engine with my feet on the breaks. My HDS will creep (tires skid) at full throttle. A runaway at start up is a simple "turn off the ignition". My hand is already 2" away on the throttle. I don't see a problem and I would MUCH more prefer full throttle failure than idle. My 2 cents. Do not archive. Leo Gates N601Z Fritz Gurschick wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick > >List, > "What if you have a throttle failure on engine start, at a fly-in, crowed ramp conditions, with all kinds of people and airplanes around". > In a panic situation, the shut-down procedure might not get done as quickly as one might expect and a lot of folks and equipment could be severly damaged. > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 brake lines? From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Hi Chuck. I too am just about to work on my main wheels and would appreciate the info on your 701 instalation. Thanks... Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29223#29223 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:21 PM PST US From: "sales@steelframe" Subject: Zenith-List: Radiator Placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: "sales@steelframe" G'Day List, I am seeking a bit of advice re radiator placement, I have just about finished my Scrap built 601 & to keep the airframe as clean as possible I have mounted the radiator between the firewall & the Subaru engine & am relying on turbulent ram air, I have cowled the radiator very tightly so the air has to go thru the radiator, I have also fitted a shutter at bottom aft end of the lower cowl to create a low pressure area to assist in scavenging, sad to say the cooling does not work as I had hoped, Is there anyone on the list that has had success with the fitting of radiators within the engine compartment? any help would be appreciated Ron Saarinen ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:30 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Radiator Placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Ron, This is a common problem with Subaru installations. The ones that are successful create a draw or negative draft at the bottom that exceeds the airflow going in the front. It may require you reduce the intake area and create a larger area shutter in the wind to get enough negative draft. If you get to a point that it confounds you, the Rabbit Diesel radiator provides adequate flow and cooling and there is a way to make it efficient externally without much drag. See link, http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/fairingintake.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/601frontqtrwpants.gif Good luck, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive sales@steelframe wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "sales@steelframe" > >G'Day List, > >I am seeking a bit of advice re radiator placement, I have just about finished >my Scrap built 601 & to keep the airframe as clean as possible I have mounted >the radiator between the firewall & the Subaru engine & am relying on turbulent >ram air, I have cowled the radiator very tightly so the air has to go thru the radiator, >I have also fitted a shutter at bottom aft end of the lower cowl to create a low >pressure area to assist in scavenging, sad to say the cooling does not work >as I had hoped, Is there anyone on the list that has had success with the >fitting of radiators within the engine compartment? any help would be appreciated > > Ron Saarinen > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:36 PM PST US From: "Allen Ricks" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: rivets vs bolts --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Allen Ricks" SACRILEGE!!! I had to laugh when I read your post. Most of us, myself included, would do much better in the near AND far term to loose 30 lb's of extra weight ourselves, and keep the extra's on the plane. It's part of my building plan. Loose your gross weight to increase your useful load. Do not archive Allen Beaverton, OR --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick List, I try to keep my posts to a minimum, but feel this issue is worth giving my two cents worth. (edit) Over-kill ? yes, maybe? But I know I will enjoy flying a lot more knowing that those parts which aren't seen on every preflight, are not going to come loose on me. ( I know that ZAC also sells stainless A-5 rivets as used on mounting the rudder pedal/ toe brake hinges) Here, I expect an outcry of: weight control !!! I am well aware of it, and thus would rather go without the Big Mac on days which I fly. Please take Michel's post seriously, and look for any similar situation on YOUR airplane.-------Fritz --------------------------------- S ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:39 PM PST US From: "Jean-Paul Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: full throttle ????? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" Has anyone heard of John Croke who also tought the full throttle failure set up wasn't up to par. On one approach, he decided to overshoot an applied full throttle without getting any engine response or partial response,,,,,,,,,,,, and crashed his 701 in some trees. He had removed the heavy spring Rotax or Bing install on the carbs and replaced it with a weaker spring. Just ask him what he thinks: feedback@HomebuiltHELP.com Jean-Paul do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leo Gates" Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: full throttle ????? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates > > List, > I am very happy with my Rotax 912 throttle hook-up. I always start the > engine with my feet on the breaks. My HDS will creep (tires skid) at > full throttle. A runaway at start up is a simple "turn off the > ignition". My hand is already 2" away on the throttle. I don't see a > problem and I would MUCH more prefer full throttle failure than idle. > > My 2 cents. > Do not archive. > > Leo Gates > N601Z > > Fritz Gurschick wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick > > > >List, > > "What if you have a throttle failure on engine start, at a fly-in, crowed ramp conditions, with all kinds of people and airplanes around". > > In a panic situation, the shut-down procedure might not get done as quickly as one might expect and a lot of folks and equipment could be severly damaged. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:44 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Radiator Placement --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien This is how mine is setup... it works well. I have several local friends with similar installation that get good results. See: http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/chengine.htm One thing to notice... my air inlets are fairly big (and this is true as well for my friends with in-cowl radiators). Michel --- "sales@steelframe" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > "sales@steelframe" > > G'Day List, > > I am seeking a bit of advice re radiator placement, > I have just about finished > my Scrap built 601 & to keep the airframe as clean > as possible I have mounted > the radiator between the firewall & the Subaru > engine & am relying on turbulent > ram air, I have cowled the radiator very tightly so > the air has to go thru the radiator, > I have also fitted a shutter at bottom aft end of > the lower cowl to create a low > pressure area to assist in scavenging, sad to say > the cooling does not work > as I had hoped, Is there anyone on the list that has > had success with the > fitting of radiators within the engine compartment? > any help would be appreciated > > Ron Saarinen > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:47 PM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair engine failure --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA > Gig, from what I have learned from the pilot that he > said he had full power from the time he rolled down > the runway and got airborne. At that point I don't > know if he had enough runway left to abort his take > off. All he said was that he tried to climb, but it > would start to buffet therefore going to stall. He > kept the plane flying in a gentle turn towards the > tree tops and then hit them. The wings sheared off > breaking his impact, then the plane came down into > the ground below. I saw the plane on Monday its > stored outside. I observed that the cockpit area from > the firewall forward is completely destroyed and from > turtle deck back is completely intact including the > tail section. Now I talked to another person who got > a different version form the observer who witnessed > the takeoff. He observed that the pilot struggled > to get airborne and used most of the runway to get > off. The runway is 5000 ft, which leads to ones > belief that maybe the engine never reached full power > at all, but that would have to be argued since the > observer wasn't in the cockpit. Gig, I saw the prop > and its a Warpdrive Prop, so I think it might be > ground adjustable. This of course is all speculation > and a full report by the pilot will address the > mambers at the next meeting. I am sure that there > will be questions pertaning to this accident. Bob S. > Do not archive --- Gig Giacona wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" > > > You stated the plane on developed partial power. Was > this a low RPM issue or did the plane just not > accelerate to the speed necessary to allow a proper > climb once out of ground effect? > > Since he didn't abort the take off roll I would hope > it is the later and if so look at the prop pitch. > > -------- > W.R. Gig Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29115#29115 > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > >