Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:42 AM - Preflight tests (was: Corvair engine failure) (Michel Therrien)
2. 06:08 AM - Re: Radiator Placement (KOBO)
3. 06:15 AM - Re: full throttle ??? spin/no spin ? (Fritz Gurschick)
4. 06:25 AM - Re: Corvair engine failure (Gig Giacona)
5. 07:02 AM - Re: full throttle ????? (steveadams)
6. 08:20 AM - Re: Radiator Placement (Michel Therrien)
7. 09:29 AM - Subject: 801 on Full Lotus Floats HOORAY! (Jim Frisby)
8. 09:29 AM - Subject: 801 on Full Lotus Floats HOORAY! (Jim Frisby)
9. 02:50 PM - Re: full throttle (back on topic) (Dave)
10. 05:21 PM - Air Filter K&N & canopy gue (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
11. 06:41 PM - I changed my opinion (Fritz Gurschick)
12. 07:11 PM - Re: I changed my opinion (Keith Ashcraft)
13. 07:26 PM - reamer size vs drill bit size (Carlos Sa)
14. 08:11 PM - Re: reamer size vs drill bit size (ROBERT SCEPPA)
15. 08:44 PM - RE : Re: reamer size vs drill bit size (Carlos Sa)
16. 08:47 PM - Re: I changed my opinion (Zodie Rocket)
17. 08:50 PM - Re: reamer size vs drill bit size (Dave)
18. 09:00 PM - Re: reamer size vs drill bit size (Dan Ribb)
19. 10:19 PM - May 6th - Zenith Fly-In (Dave Ruddiman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Preflight tests (was: Corvair engine failure) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Before we did the first flight with my Soob powered
601-HD, I'm glad we did a lot of testing on the
ground. Actually, the engine ran for approximatively
15 hours before flying. During the first few hours,
we discovered that my ignition setup was bogus. I
tried using Mitsubishi pickups with IC107 coils. We
burned both coils within a few hours. With the
Mitsubishi pickups we need the IC12 coils with
appropriate resistors.
Then, later, after final inspection, but before 1st
flight, I discovered my engine mount was not good (it
flexed - inappropriate design). I got somebody to
modify its design in the field.
We also did a traction test on the ground with the
plane attached to a scale.
On the day of the 1st flight, my test pilot did
several acceleration runs on the runway with no
intention to fly. When he got comfortable that he
reached 50mph in a short enough distance (and that the
engine ran well), then he lifted off.
After 1st flight, we modified the prop pitch.
I don't know if we can run an air cooled engine on the
ground at full rpm for a long period (that was not an
isssue with the soob). I know that if we did not do
that, my aircraft would not have served me for long.
Michel
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator Placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "KOBO" <kobo1@cyberbeach.net>
Michel, your rad placement looks a little high. It seems to be above the
carburetor, is that right?
Michael K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Radiator Placement
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
>
> This is how mine is setup... it works well. I have
> several local friends with similar installation that
> get good results.
>
> See:
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/chengine.htm
>
> One thing to notice... my air inlets are fairly big
> (and this is true as well for my friends with in-cowl
> radiators).
>
> Michel
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: full throttle ??? spin/no spin ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
All--- this is why I keep my post to a minimum--- will do my best not to make any
more, but I have a hard time keeping quiet when it is a saftey issue.
Let's not "spin" this around---- the orginal question was about-- "Full throlle
at linkage breakeage." Not everyone is flying with a Rotax 912, which I
believe uses the Bing Carbs, with their use of assistance springs. What Jon
C. did by his own admission was to modify these springs which lead to the fact
he couldn't acquire full rpm for a successful go around. I will not "paste
and drag" his account to this page as I don't believe it is fair to Jon to do
that. (Jon took the time to post a very informative narration and pictures in
the hopes that others wouldn't make the same mistake he did------ thank you,
Jon)
Also, as far as appling brakes at engine start, I realize that is the proper
thing to do. But, after following this site for some time, it is very apparent
that there are some Zenith/ Zenair aircraft out there with less than appropriate
braking power.---Fritz
Jean-Paul Roy <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
Has anyone heard of John Croke who also tought the full throttle failure set
up wasn't up to par.
On one approach, he decided to overshoot an applied full throttle without
getting any engine response or partial response,,,,,,,,,,,, and crashed his
701 in some trees.
He had removed the heavy spring Rotax or Bing install on the carbs and
replaced it with a weaker spring.
Just ask him what he thinks:
feedback@HomebuiltHELP.com
Jean-Paul
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo Gates"
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: full throttle ?????
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates
>
> List,
> I am very happy with my Rotax 912 throttle hook-up. I always start the
> engine with my feet on the breaks. My HDS will creep (tires skid) at
> full throttle. A runaway at start up is a simple "turn off the
> ignition". My hand is already 2" away on the throttle. I don't see a
> problem and I would MUCH more prefer full throttle failure than idle.
>
> My 2 cents.
> Do not archive.
>
> Leo Gates
> N601Z
>
> Fritz Gurschick wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick
> >
> >List,
> > "What if you have a throttle failure on engine start, at a fly-in,
crowed ramp conditions, with all kinds of people and airplanes around".
> > In a panic situation, the shut-down procedure might not get done as
quickly as one might expect and a lot of folks and equipment could be
severly damaged.
> >
> >
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair engine failure |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
Sounds very much like a take off that should have been aborted. If he was using
the Warp Drive prop that William Wynne recomends then it is indeed ground adjustable.
I look forword to hearing more info.
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29388#29388
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: full throttle ????? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
I guess you all are talking primarily about the Rotax, but most carburated Lycomings
also have a "safety spring" intregal to the carb throttle linkage which
goes full throttle in the case of a broken cable. I don't know about FI engines.
I think this just makes sense. I have never started an aircraft with anyone
standing anywhere close to the front of my plane and always have brakes on when
starting. Even with a little creep or sliding forward when mashing on the brakes
and full throttle, you should still have plenty of time to figure out what
is happening and shut down before doing any damage or hurting someone. Now,
if you start up without your feet on the brakes or with someone standing 10 feet
in front of your prop, there might be a problem even if there's nothing wrong
with your throttle cable. I'll take an unexpected full throttle on the ground
any day over the throttle going to idle in flight. Just my 2 cents worth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29399#29399
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator Placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
A little high... I don't know. Center of the rad is
approx aligned with the carburetor. I positionned the
rad so it avoided conflicts with the engine mount.
What is important is that the custom pressure cap is
at the highest point (some people use a pressure
bottle such as the VW bottle).
Michel
do not archive
--- KOBO <kobo1@cyberbeach.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "KOBO"
> <kobo1@cyberbeach.net>
>
> Michel, your rad placement looks a little high. It
> seems to be above the
> carburetor, is that right?
>
>
> Michael K
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 7
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| Subject: | 801 on Full Lotus Floats HOORAY! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: 801 on Full Lotus Floats
Congratulation Bill, To my knowledge, yours will be the first 801 ever to
actually be flown on floats. I hope to follow you one of the days.
Jim Frisby
N801ZA
Message 8
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| Subject: | 801 on Full Lotus Floats HOORAY! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: 801 on Full Lotus Floats
Congratulation Bill, To my knowledge, yours will be the first 801 ever to
actually be flown on floats. I hope to follow you one of the days.
Jim Frisby
N801AK
Message 9
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| Subject: | full throttle (back on topic) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
Bing carbs are designed to be able to change the spring from normally open
to normally closed so it's completely application dependant. You can do the
same with any carb if you change the linkage to pull to close and place the
throttle spring (normally return) on so that it pulls the throttle open.
I'll bet you didn't know that on the old 60's and 70's cars that if that
return spring broke the throttle went to wide open from the vacuum of the
engine sucking across the throttle plates.
On a side note, if you fly "standard" aircraft you already know that it's
push to accelerate. So no matter what you decide to do at least configure
your aircraft that way, because when you need it most your mind will react
that way and you may not get a chance to recover from a mistake.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fritz
Gurschick
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: full throttle ??? spin/no spin ?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
All--- this is why I keep my post to a minimum--- will do my best not to
make any more, but I have a hard time keeping quiet when it is a saftey
issue.
Let's not "spin" this around---- the orginal question was about-- "Full
throlle at linkage breakeage." Not everyone is
Message 10
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| Subject: | Air Filter K&N & canopy gue |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Dear Thread Friends, a couple days/ weeks ago these topics came up and I did
not get to post answers because I needed to get the info from the hanger. On
the K&N air filter the manufacture part number I use is 33-2008-1. Got it at
Auto Zone for about $35.00. It fit right into the FWF kit airbox setup without
modification. The second issue was on what kind of goo I used to attach the
rubber seals to the canopy glass. I used 3M Black Super Weather Adhesive. Comes
in a smallish black tube and when dry is black rubber. Sticks like the devil,
but is malleable for a few minutes until it dries. Clean up with lacquer
thinner so you do not dare put the stuff where you have to clean the plastic. Hope
this helps some one, best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 11
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| Subject: | I changed my opinion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
List----after the discussion on "full throttle at linkage breakage", I have evaluated
the comments made and have changed my mind. I feel with the "slower
rev-ing" 4 cycle engines ( and good brakes) the "full throttle at linkage breakage"
is the best way to go.
In all fairness to my earlier thinking ( full throttle being unsafe). I made
that decision when I was using the Rotax 582, which is a quick rev-ing, high
torque engine which will go to full rpm VERY quickly compared to a 4 cycle engine.----
Fritz
---------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: I changed my opinion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Fritz,
I don't know why Jon hasn't spoken up (www.ch701.com is registered to Jon)
Read his story about carb. springs!!!
http://www.ch701.com/webmaster/Jon/deer%20hunting/jon_crash.htm
(hope you don't mind Jon, your experience is a learning lesson for all
of us!!)
Keith
***********************************************************************************
Fritz Gurschick wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
>
>List----after the discussion on "full throttle at linkage breakage", I have evaluated
the comments made and have changed my mind. I feel with the "slower
rev-ing" 4 cycle engines ( and good brakes) the "full throttle at linkage breakage"
is the best way to go.
> In all fairness to my earlier thinking ( full throttle being unsafe). I made
that decision when I was using the Rotax 582, which is a quick rev-ing, high
torque engine which will go to full rpm VERY quickly compared to a 4 cycle engine.----
Fritz
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
*************************************
*Keith Ashcraft*
ITT Industries
Advanced Engineering & Sciences
5009 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO
80919
(719) 599-1787 -- work
(719) 332-4364 -- cell
keith.ashcraft@itt.com
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Message 13
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| Subject: | reamer size vs drill bit size |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, all
Could someone tell me what is the correct drill bit size (alphabetic) for 5/16"
(N?) and 3/8"
(U?).
I failed to order the bits when I ordered the reamers, and want to make sure I
order the right
bits first time.
Thanks in advance
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
*** do not archive ***
Lche-vitrine ou lche-cran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: reamer size vs drill bit size |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> Go to LittleMachine,com Carlos
--- Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
> <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello, all
>
>
> Could someone tell me what is the correct drill bit
> size (alphabetic) for 5/16" (N?) and 3/8"
> (U?).
> I failed to order the bits when I ordered the
> reamers, and want to make sure I order the right
> bits first time.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD, plans
> Montreal, Canada
>
> *** do not archive ***
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lche-vitrine ou lche-cran ?
> magasinage.yahoo.ca
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: reamer size vs drill bit size |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Robert, there must be a typo in the URL you provided;
http://www.littlemachine.com/
is a web development co. ...
Carlos
do not archive
--- ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com> a crit :
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
>
> > Go to LittleMachine,com Carlos
Lche-vitrine ou lche-cran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
Message 16
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| Subject: | I changed my opinion |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi Keith and all, I put Jon's story on CH701.com and ch601.org with
Jon's permission. He is willing to share his mistake with everyone in
the hopes that it is never repeated. IF it were not for the spring
change on Jon's 912 he never would have had the accident! Please make
sure that every engine is set to full open if a throttle gets broken, it
is far cheaper to re-build a motor then to replace the plane/Motor/ and
pilot! As for the address on Jon's story, Jon is not a hunter and
wouldn't partake in such a practice, but his plane spiraling through the
tree's making the sound of a 1001 beer cans being crushed all at once
had the effect of clearing that part of the forest of many resident
deer, even to this day!
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft
<keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Fritz,
I don't know why Jon hasn't spoken up (www.ch701.com is registered to
Jon)
Read his story about carb. springs!!!
http://www.ch701.com/webmaster/Jon/deer%20hunting/jon_crash.htm
(hope you don't mind Jon, your experience is a learning lesson for all
of us!!)
Keith
--
Message 17
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| Subject: | reamer size vs drill bit size |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
The N and U drill is correct IF they are sharp and cutting correctly. They
will normally cut slightly oversize from the decimal size listed .302 may
cut to .305 and .368 may cut .371, but the reamer will cut much more
accurate. Make sure you stay perpendicular to your work piece or you will
bell mouth your part. This is more critical on the thin aluminum and steel
that we use for aircraft.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:25 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: reamer size vs drill bit size
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, all
Could someone tell me what is the correct drill bit size (alphabetic) for
5/16" (N?) and 3/8"
(U?).
I failed to order the bits when I ordered the reamers, and want to make sure
I order the right
bits first time.
Thanks in advance
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Montreal, Canada
*** do not archive ***
Lche-vitrine ou lche-cran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: reamer size vs drill bit size |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
Carlos, this chart seems to verify the sizes you mention.
http://www.engineersedge.com/drill_sizes.htm
- Dan
----- Original Message -----
> message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
> Hello, all
> Could someone tell me what is the correct drill bit size (alphabetic) for
> 5/16" (N?) and 3/8"
> (U?).
> I failed to order the bits when I ordered the reamers, and want to make
> sure I order the right
> bits first time.
> Thanks in advance
> Carlos
> CH601-HD, plans
> Montreal, Canada
Message 19
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| Subject: | May 6th - Zenith Fly-In |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Does anyone know anything about the Zenith Fly-In on May 6th in California. I thought
about driving down from Oregon. Might be a long way to go for a one day
deal.
Dave in Salem
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