Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:48 AM - Re: May 6th - Zenith Fly-In (CH701)
2. 05:13 AM - More 701 brakes (Zed Smith)
3. 08:49 AM - Sensenich ground adj prop (Tim Juhl)
4. 08:51 AM - Re: May 6th fly-in (fred sanford)
5. 09:16 AM - Re: More 701 brakes (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
6. 09:39 AM - Re: Corvair engine failure - 04/17/06 (Gpjann@aol.com)
7. 09:45 AM - Re: Sensenich ground adj prop (Paul Mulwitz)
8. 10:18 AM - Re: Sensenich ground adj prop (Dan Ribb)
9. 10:42 AM - Re: More 701 brakes (Jim Hoak)
10. 11:44 AM - Re: More 701 brakes (Chuck Deiterich)
11. 12:00 PM - 701 brakes (Zed Smith)
12. 12:11 PM - Re: More 701 brakes (Randy Bryant)
13. 12:57 PM - Re: More 701 brakes (doug kandle)
14. 01:24 PM - FloScan (Beckman, Rick)
15. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Corvair engine failure - 04/17/06 (Cy Galley)
16. 04:37 PM - Re: Sensenich ground adj prop (Tim Juhl)
17. 04:51 PM - Re: Sensenich ground adj prop (Tim Juhl)
18. 05:38 PM - Re: RE : Re: reamer size vs drill bit size (ROBERT SCEPPA)
19. 06:08 PM - Faa inspection passed (Jack Russell)
20. 09:32 PM - Re: Faa inspection passed (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
21. 10:33 PM - Re: full throttle ??? spin/no spin ? (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | May 6th - Zenith Fly-In |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com>
Dave & All,
Here's the Zenith (Quality Sport Planes LLC) link to info on the event:
http://www.qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_036.htm
Todd Henning
West Bend, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:13 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: May 6th - Zenith Fly-In
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
--> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Does anyone know anything about the Zenith Fly-In on May 6th in California.
I thought about driving down from Oregon. Might be a long way to go for a
one day deal.
Dave in Salem
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
List --
The 17 feet of quarter-inch OD Nylon tubing supplied by ZAC for the brake lines
was actually only 14 feet.
Either I move the gear forward, rudder pedals aft, or, get more tubing.
Question is: Which tubing in the Spruce catalog is the replacement, "Nylo-Seal"
or "Nylaflow"?
Tubing on hand is Nylon and was made in Canada. It is marked as .170 ID and fits
perfectly on the supplied brass "Poly-Flo" fittings.
Regards & Thanks,
Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Sensenich ground adj prop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Does anyone have any experience with the Sensenich Carbon Fiber ground adjustable
prop used on a Jabiru 3300 in a 601XL?
Sensenich has a 10% off sale thru the end of April if you order direct from the
factory so I'd like to take advantage of the list's collective wisdom to help
make a purchase decision.
Tim
--------
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - awaiting kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29647#29647
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: May 6th fly-in |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford <sonar1@cox.net>
Hi Dave in Salem:
Just talked to the guy in Cloverdale.
They are going to have two 701's there, and mine will be the third
(weather permitting - flying up from Santa Barbara).
Their 601.
Several LSA presentations.
Quick build displays for 601.
Rudder workshop going on.
Lunch BBQ.
Chris Heintz should be there.
Ultralights flying and parachuters jumping.
do not archive
Fred Sanford - N9701 - IZA - 52 hours
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: More 701 brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Zed, I have the plastic tube brake lines on my XL. If I was building again I
would not install it and here is why. When I vigorously apply bakes I am
getting hard pressure, but the plane does not slow as readily as I believe it
should. I think (without any real proof) that some of the pressure is dissipated
by
the general expansion of 14/17 feet of plastic lines and in effect reducing
that to the brake calibers. I fly and land my plane, but I have missed more
than a few turn offs because I simply rolled past them. And I am not happy about
short airports. If I was building or if I ever have to rebuild ( pray Lord I
never have to ) I would install steel lines. FWIW, Best regards, Bill of
Georgia
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair engine failure - 04/17/06 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gpjann@aol.com
I wonder if the pilot reached good static PRM while ground testing his
engine.
If he did, than maybe the prop/pitch was not correct.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich ground adj prop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I spoke with the guru at Sensenich last year about this new
product. I believe it has just been made available to customers
recently, so there is not much information floating around. You
might check with Pete at Jabiru since he was involved a little in the
product development.
My understanding is you can get it from 60 to 62 inches and there
might be an option to get a leading edge reinforcement installed at
the factory. My current plan is to order one in the 60 inch length
since this should allow full 3300 rpm use on the Jabiru
3300. According to the guy at Sensenich the 62 inch length is
designed for use to 3200 rpms. (I hope my memory is good on this
point, but I am sure you can confirm the facts with the authorities.)
Good luck,
Paul
XL wings
>Does anyone have any experience with the Sensenich Carbon Fiber
>ground adjustable prop used on a Jabiru 3300 in a 601XL?
>
>Sensenich has a 10% off sale thru the end of April if you order
>direct from the factory so I'd like to take advantage of the list's
>collective wisdom to help make a purchase decision.
>
>Tim
>
>
--
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich ground adj prop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
More info here.
http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/carbon_faq-2.pdf
- Dan
----- Original Message -----
> Does anyone have any experience with the Sensenich Carbon Fiber
> ground adjustable prop used on a Jabiru 3300 in a 601XL?
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: More 701 brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
Bill and List,
If your replace the "plastic" brake line use 5052 aluminun not steel. That's
what I put on my Midget Mustang I, 35 years ago, using Cleaveland brakes.
Those would put the Mustang on it's nose if you weren't carefull. I don't
think there is pressure loss at the brakes due to expansion or flexing of
the "plastic" line on our Zeniths. Rather I think it's just too small brake
pads on the Matco brakes, but I could be Wrong AGAIN! I'm replacing the pads
now on my 601HD after 500 hrs (over 700 landings). They sure are small. They
won't hold the plane still when checking ignition at 3850 RPM of my 80HP
Rotax eng. I agree with Bill that unless I really slow down on final and
make a nice very slow touchdown I roll past some turn-offs. All the more
reason to make nice slow controlled landings!
do not archive
Jim Hoak
----- Original Message -----
From: <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More 701 brakes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
> Zed, I have the plastic tube brake lines on my XL. If I was building again
> I
> would not install it and here is why. When I vigorously apply bakes I am
> getting hard pressure, but the plane does not slow as readily as I believe
> it
> should. I think (without any real proof) that some of the pressure is
> dissipated by
> the general expansion of 14/17 feet of plastic lines and in effect
> reducing
> that to the brake calibers. I fly and land my plane, but I have missed
> more
> than a few turn offs because I simply rolled past them. And I am not happy
> about
> short airports. If I was building or if I ever have to rebuild ( pray Lord
> I
> never have to ) I would install steel lines. FWIW, Best regards, Bill of
> Georgia
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: More 701 brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
The geometry of the ZAC brakes is such that you don't get good mechanical
advantage. A lot has been said about this in the past. If you are not
"bottoming out" the master cylinder you are not losing braking power due to
expansion of brake lines.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More 701 brakes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
>
> Bill and List,
>
> If your replace the "plastic" brake line use 5052 aluminun not steel.
That's
> what I put on my Midget Mustang I, 35 years ago, using Cleaveland brakes.
> Those would put the Mustang on it's nose if you weren't carefull. I don't
> think there is pressure loss at the brakes due to expansion or flexing of
> the "plastic" line on our Zeniths. Rather I think it's just too small
brake
> pads on the Matco brakes, but I could be Wrong AGAIN! I'm replacing the
pads
> now on my 601HD after 500 hrs (over 700 landings). They sure are small.
They
> won't hold the plane still when checking ignition at 3850 RPM of my 80HP
> Rotax eng. I agree with Bill that unless I really slow down on final and
> make a nice very slow touchdown I roll past some turn-offs. All the more
> reason to make nice slow controlled landings!
>
> do not archive
>
> Jim Hoak
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More 701 brakes
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
> >
> > Zed, I have the plastic tube brake lines on my XL. If I was building
again
> > I
> > would not install it and here is why. When I vigorously apply bakes I am
> > getting hard pressure, but the plane does not slow as readily as I
believe
> > it
> > should. I think (without any real proof) that some of the pressure is
> > dissipated by
> > the general expansion of 14/17 feet of plastic lines and in effect
> > reducing
> > that to the brake calibers. I fly and land my plane, but I have missed
> > more
> > than a few turn offs because I simply rolled past them. And I am not
happy
> > about
> > short airports. If I was building or if I ever have to rebuild ( pray
Lord
> > I
> > never have to ) I would install steel lines. FWIW, Best regards, Bill of
> > Georgia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
List,
Thanks to all, on list and off, for the advice.
Looks like some are experiencing stopping problems.......so one observation --
On a previous plane where I had single calipers per wheel there was no problem
locking the wheels with brake pressure. Granted the wheels would slide on grass,
and sometimes even on concrete that had a smooth finish. Never had the problem
on asphalt. This is with R912/3-blade prop.
I decided to install much larger tires, run lower tire pressure for bounce-free
taxiing......that was a real mistake.
The longer radius of the tire/wheel combination was more than the single puck would
hold. Pads slipped on the disks at run-up every time. Still would slide
on grass, but the point is the singles weren't enough to lock the wheels.
My still-under-construction 701 with R912 has dual calipers per wheel and I assume
(bad choice of word) that all the more recent 701 production has this setup.....can't
speak for the 601 series.
Anyway, thanks for the replys.
Regards,
Zed
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: More 701 brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
Seems logical to me... Since a liquid cannot be compressed, at some point
the lines would quit expanding and would either burst or apply more force to
the brake pads... As long as you have not "bottomed out" the master
cylinder yet...
Randy B.
N344RB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More 701 brakes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
>
> The geometry of the ZAC brakes is such that you don't get good mechanical
> advantage. A lot has been said about this in the past. If you are not
> "bottoming out" the master cylinder you are not losing braking power due
> to
> expansion of brake lines.
> Chuck D.
> N701TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More 701 brakes
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" <planejim@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Bill and List,
>>
>> If your replace the "plastic" brake line use 5052 aluminun not steel.
> That's
>> what I put on my Midget Mustang I, 35 years ago, using Cleaveland brakes.
>> Those would put the Mustang on it's nose if you weren't carefull. I don't
>> think there is pressure loss at the brakes due to expansion or flexing of
>> the "plastic" line on our Zeniths. Rather I think it's just too small
> brake
>> pads on the Matco brakes, but I could be Wrong AGAIN! I'm replacing the
> pads
>> now on my 601HD after 500 hrs (over 700 landings). They sure are small.
> They
>> won't hold the plane still when checking ignition at 3850 RPM of my 80HP
>> Rotax eng. I agree with Bill that unless I really slow down on final and
>> make a nice very slow touchdown I roll past some turn-offs. All the more
>> reason to make nice slow controlled landings!
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Jim Hoak
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More 701 brakes
>>
>>
>> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>> >
>> > Zed, I have the plastic tube brake lines on my XL. If I was building
> again
>> > I
>> > would not install it and here is why. When I vigorously apply bakes I
>> > am
>> > getting hard pressure, but the plane does not slow as readily as I
> believe
>> > it
>> > should. I think (without any real proof) that some of the pressure is
>> > dissipated by
>> > the general expansion of 14/17 feet of plastic lines and in effect
>> > reducing
>> > that to the brake calibers. I fly and land my plane, but I have missed
>> > more
>> > than a few turn offs because I simply rolled past them. And I am not
> happy
>> > about
>> > short airports. If I was building or if I ever have to rebuild ( pray
> Lord
>> > I
>> > never have to ) I would install steel lines. FWIW, Best regards, Bill
>> > of
>> > Georgia
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: More 701 brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle <d_kandle@velocitus.net>
I found out that if you don't break in the pads as the instructions
state, they don't work very well. When I break in a new set of
linings I taxi 2 or 3 thousand feet with the brakes on. They get hot
and I see sparks coming off of the disks. But after they cool, they
work much better.
---
When I vigorously apply bakes I
> >> > am
> >> > getting hard pressure, but the plane does not slow as readily as I
> > believe
> >> > it
> >> > should. I think (without any real proof) that some of the pressure is
> >> > dissipated by
> >> > the general expansion of 14/17 feet of plastic lines and in effect
> >> > reducing
> >> > that to the brake calibers.
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
Hi, Y'all
If any of you are using the GRT EIS with the
FloScan sensor, would you e-mail me off list, please? I have some
technical questions I need answered. Thanks,
Rick
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair engine failure - 04/17/06 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
He might have reached a really good static. So high that the prop goes sonic
and the engine can't make it turn any faster and the "bite" to too small to
reach flying speed. It happens. Too flat a pitch is just as bad as too
much pitch.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Gpjann@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 3:27 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Corvair engine failure - 04/17/06
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gpjann@aol.com
>
> I wonder if the pilot reached good static PRM while ground testing his
> engine.
> If he did, than maybe the prop/pitch was not correct.
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich ground adj prop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Thanks. I talked to Pete earlier today and he said that there were at least a
couple of Zenith owners flying behind the new prop. He had generally favorable
comments about the prop when used with Jabiru aircraft and said that about
half the Zenith folks buying Jab 3300's were opting for the new prop.
I was hoping there might be someone on the list who could share their first hand
experiences.
Tim
--------
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - awaiting kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29736#29736
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich ground adj prop |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
Oops! I forgot to mention some other info I got while talking with Sensenich -
You might find their comments useful
"We have a 64" two blade propeller for the jabiru 3300 engine.
Propeller is rated at the same rating as the engine: 3300 intermittant,
2850 continuous.
In my opinion, the propeller is fine for 3000 continuous.
Now with the new economy tuning kit, most people with 3300 engines will stay below
2900 because fuel consumption rises by 2 gph at 3000 and above. For the month
of april, our composite aircraft propellers are available direct from the
factory at 10% off.
$1525 retail - $1375 april special cost includes all mounting hardware for propeller.
Normal finish is all white, red tips and flat back face. Alternate solid
colors are: grey and black with white or red tips. Includes nickel leading edge.
Delivery usually runs 2-3 weeks."
Tim
--------
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - awaiting kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29739#29739
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: reamer size vs drill bit size |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> I agree. I tried opening the site here, didn't work.
> The way I did it is to put the info your looking for
> in the Yahoo search window. You will see several
> sites, that was one of them. Try again..Bob
Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
> <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Robert, there must be a typo in the URL you
> provided;
>
> http://www.littlemachine.com/
>
> is a web development co. ...
>
> Carlos
> do not archive
>
> --- ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com> a crit :
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA
> <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> >
> > > Go to LittleMachine,com Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lche-vitrine ou lche-cran ?
> magasinage.yahoo.ca
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Faa inspection passed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Our experience with the FAA inspector was a good one. The inspection took a couple
of hours and the only problem he had was one prop bolt safety wire was loose.
Should be in the air soon!
Of course, We had to wait about 3 months for this all to occur so learn from
our mistakes.
We went to the local fsdo and was told to bring all paperwork to their office
which we did the next day. A couple of weeks later the inspector called to set
up an appointment and asked if we had registered it with OK. Told him that he
had the paper work. Long story short, The registration must be sent direct to
OK and not the local office before the inspection can be set up. We sent it
off to OK and finally we got the regs back. All the run around took about 2 months
longer than it should have. Just a word of advice, get it registered long
before you think you might be getting to the end. Jack in Los Osos Ca.
Ps. The Inspector was a great guy to work with. Very helpful.
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Faa inspection passed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
So Jack, how did she fly ????
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: full throttle ??? spin/no spin ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Fritz,
The spring to full power is very important.
In fact here, our Instructor and most Experienced Bush Pilot (no AF-1 of course
:-)
Flys a C 180 to the mountains to do mission flights, He has "the spring" in
his carburator. and sure is not a Rotax powered Cessna.
By the way he is my Instructor and was the test pilot for our 701. He loved
the plane,
Saludos
Gary Gower
Just back from some GREAT vacations! Later some comments.
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Do not archive.
Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick
All--- this is why I keep my post to a minimum--- will do my best not to make any
more, but I have a hard time keeping quiet when it is a saftey issue.
Let's not "spin" this around---- the orginal question was about-- "Full throlle
at linkage breakeage." Not everyone is flying with a Rotax 912, which I believe
uses the Bing Carbs, with their use of assistance springs. What Jon C. did
by his own admission was to modify these springs which lead to the fact he couldn't
acquire full rpm for a successful go around. I will not "paste and drag"
his account to this page as I don't believe it is fair to Jon to do that. (Jon
took the time to post a very informative narration and pictures in the hopes
that others wouldn't make the same mistake he did------ thank you, Jon)
Also, as far as appling brakes at engine start, I realize that is the proper thing
to do. But, after following this site for some time, it is very apparent that
there are some Zenith/ Zenair aircraft out there with less than appropriate
braking power.---Fritz
Jean-Paul Roy wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy"
Has anyone heard of John Croke who also tought the full throttle failure set
up wasn't up to par.
On one approach, he decided to overshoot an applied full throttle without
getting any engine response or partial response,,,,,,,,,,,, and crashed his
701 in some trees.
He had removed the heavy spring Rotax or Bing install on the carbs and
replaced it with a weaker spring.
Just ask him what he thinks:
feedback@HomebuiltHELP.com
Jean-Paul
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo Gates"
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: full throttle ?????
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates
>
> List,
> I am very happy with my Rotax 912 throttle hook-up. I always start the
> engine with my feet on the breaks. My HDS will creep (tires skid) at
> full throttle. A runaway at start up is a simple "turn off the
> ignition". My hand is already 2" away on the throttle. I don't see a
> problem and I would MUCH more prefer full throttle failure than idle.
>
> My 2 cents.
> Do not archive.
>
> Leo Gates
> N601Z
>
> Fritz Gurschick wrote:
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick
> >
> >List,
> > "What if you have a throttle failure on engine start, at a fly-in,
crowed ramp conditions, with all kinds of people and airplanes around".
> > In a panic situation, the shut-down procedure might not get done as
quickly as one might expect and a lot of folks and equipment could be
severly damaged.
> >
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