Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - Re: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts (n801bh@netzero.com)
2. 12:30 AM - Re: HDS Wings (Peter Barthold)
3. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: HDS Wings (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?=)
4. 05:20 AM - Re: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts (Geoff Heap)
5. 05:43 AM - Salad Oil Engines FKA: HDS Wings (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
6. 05:43 AM - Re: Re: HDS Wings (Richard McLachlan)
7. 06:15 AM - Re: Re: HDS Wings (Aaron Gustafson)
8. 06:42 AM - More Gas..... (Zed Smith)
9. 06:59 AM - Re: More Gas..... (Dave Ruddiman)
10. 07:34 AM - 701 CG calculations (Chris Harding)
11. 07:51 AM - Re: More Gas..... (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: HDS Wings (Dave Johnson)
13. 08:35 AM - Re: 701 CG calculations (Monty Graves)
14. 08:42 AM - Re: 701 CG calculations (Gig Giacona)
15. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: HDS Wings (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
16. 08:49 AM - Re: More Gas..... (CH701)
17. 09:03 AM - Re: HDS Wings (Peter Barthold)
18. 09:08 AM - Re: More Gas..... (KOBO)
19. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: 701 CG calculations (Chuck Deiterich)
20. 09:19 AM - Firewall (Ron Culver)
21. 09:41 AM - Re: Firewall (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
22. 09:43 AM - Re: More Gas..... (John)
23. 10:28 AM - Re: More Gas..... (Paul Mulwitz)
24. 10:28 AM - wing spar insert to center wing section (tinerj2005@tinerj.com)
25. 10:29 AM - Re: Firewall (Paul Mulwitz)
26. 10:37 AM - Re: More Gas..... (Robert Schoenberger)
27. 11:39 AM - Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (AZFlyer)
28. 12:06 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
29. 12:49 PM - Re: Firewall (Gig Giacona)
30. 12:50 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (Aaron Gustafson)
31. 12:52 PM - Re: More Gas..... (LarryMcFarland)
32. 12:56 PM - Re: Firewall (LarryMcFarland)
33. 01:07 PM - edge former (George Swinford)
34. 01:13 PM - Re: Firewall (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
35. 01:25 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (LarryMcFarland)
36. 01:37 PM - Re: More Gas..... (Bryan Martin)
37. 01:37 PM - Re: edge former (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
38. 02:11 PM - Re: A5 Rivets (Terry Turnquist)
39. 02:23 PM - Re: Firewall (Gig Giacona)
40. 02:31 PM - Re: More Gas..... (Gig Giacona)
41. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: Firewall ()
42. 02:44 PM - Re: Firewall (Ron Culver)
43. 02:47 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (Tim Juhl)
44. 03:02 PM - Re: More Gas..... (Flydog1966@aol.com)
45. 03:36 PM - Re: Firewall (Monty Graves)
46. 04:15 PM - Gas?? (Bill Naumuk)
47. 04:34 PM - New to the list (Robert L. Stone)
48. 05:38 PM - RE : Re: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts (Carlos Sa)
49. 06:30 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (Robert Schoenberger)
50. 06:32 PM - Re: New to the list (kevinbonds)
51. 06:39 PM - Re: A5 Rivets (Randy Bryant)
52. 07:03 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (Jack Russell)
53. 07:11 PM - Re: 701 CG calculations (Chris Harding)
54. 08:20 PM - Re: Gas?? (Mike Sinclair)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
The easiest way to is mic the bolts, get an avaerage size of the shank , then order
a reamer that size. MSC, Mc Master and other tool houses sell all sizes of
reamers in .001 increments at very reasonable prices. For instance, you have
bolts that measure .373, round up the amount that size needed for the job and
order a .372 reamer for 8 bucks or so.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" <dan@danribb.com>
Check out this article. It really helped me out - especially the last 3
paragraphs.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
I found this helpful too.
http://exp-aircraft.com/library/alexande/hardware.html
- Dan
> ----- Original Message -----
> Once again, I have managed to create problems ....
> Carlos
> CH601-HD, plans
The easiest way to is mic the bolts, get an avaerage size of the shank , then order
a reamer that size. MSC, Mc Master and other tool houses sell all sizes of
reamers in .001 increments at very reasonable prices.For instance, you have
bolts that measure .373, round up the amount that size needed for the job and
order a .372 reamer for 8 bucks or so.
do not archive
BenHaas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
--"DanRibb"dan@danribb.comwrote:
--Zenith-Listmessagepostedby:"DanRibb"dan@danribb.com
Checkoutthisarticle.Itreallyhelpedmeout-especiallythelast3
paragraphs.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html
Ifoundthishelpfultoo.
http://exp-aircraft.com/library/alexande/hardware.html
-Dan
-----OriginalMessage-----
Onceagain,Ihavemanagedtocreateproblems....
Carlos
CH601-HD,plans
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Barthold" <peter.barthold@t-online.de>
Hello Gary,
sorry for the inconvenience! I use the "Firefox" Browser and my Website works perfect
with it. I just tried Windows "Explorer" and JIKES!! most pictures are
scrapped!! [Embarassed]
Looks like a major overhaulj :?
I can send you some pics if you like. BTW, the downside of my cradle is its height.
I now have to use a step to reach the middle of the wing.
...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices??? just for
the laughs [Wink]
Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30494#30494
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= <joeing701@internet.is>
Not directly Zenith related but effects the hours spent in flying one,
but the price of gasoline here in Iceland has never been higher.
$6.15/gallon. Can you beat that. It is not a laughing matter. Really
pisses me off how taxes can mess up a hobby, but someone has to pay
them. I would buy that engine if you could find one. (runs on salad oil)
Regards,
Johann G.
do not archive
>
>...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices??? just for
the laughs [Wink]
>
>
>Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil)
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
Hi Carlos
Depending on the setup and the tool, you may sometimes get a hole bigger than the
drill. However, that does not matter as long as the hole is still smaller than
the reamer that you are about to put in it. Check the hole size after the
drill is done. If it is O.K. put the reamer through. Always run your reamers a
lot slower than your drill (rpm). If the reamer cuts, the hole WILL be the same
diameter as the reamer.
Your chuck may not be running true. You should have a clamp on the part for safety.
I suggest you do not cut the reamer down. The extra length allows the reamer
to flex and follow the drilled hole. A shorter reamer is stronger and if there
is runout it will tend to cut oversize like it was a boring bar. Hope this
helps..........Geoff.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30518#30518
Message 5
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| Subject: | Salad Oil Engines FKA: HDS Wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Johann & Peter:
The engine of YOUR dreams exists !!.......well, maybe it won't run on salad
oil, or won't run very well, but there have been a number of French Fry
Cooking Oil cooking oil conversions done on VW compression-ignition
engines....take a look at
_http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/vegetable_oil_fuel.php_
(http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/vegetable_oil_fuel.php)
I'm not sure I want to show off my Homebuilt and have it smell like a
Wendy's......
Anyway, I may be crazy, but I think this engine has some commercial potential
_http://www.dair.co.uk/_ (http://www.dair.co.uk/)
and say good-bye to vapor lock and carb icing !!!!
Sorry to go off-topic....
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
In a message dated 4/25/2006 8:07:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
joeing701@internet.is writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?=
<joeing701@internet.is>
Not directly Zenith related but effects the hours spent in flying one,
but the price of gasoline here in Iceland has never been higher.
$6.15/gallon. Can you beat that. It is not a laughing matter. Really
pisses me off how taxes can mess up a hobby, but someone has to pay
them. I would buy that engine if you could find one. (runs on salad oil)
Regards,
Johann G.
do not archive
>
>...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices???
just for the laughs [Wink]
>
>
>Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil)
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" <richard@rodsley.net>
You are lucky - I wish ours was as cheap as that. Avgas is $8.05 and
unleaded mogas $6.75 per US gal here in the UK.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jhann Gestur" <joeing701@internet.is>
Sent: 25 April 2006 13:00
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?=
> <joeing701@internet.is>
>
> Not directly Zenith related but effects the hours spent in flying one,
> but the price of gasoline here in Iceland has never been higher.
> $6.15/gallon. Can you beat that. It is not a laughing matter. Really
> pisses me off how taxes can mess up a hobby, but someone has to pay
> them. I would buy that engine if you could find one. (runs on salad oil)
>
> Regards,
> Johann G.
> do not archive
>
>>
>>...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices???
>>just for the laughs [Wink]
>>
>>
>>Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil)
>>
>>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" <agustafson@chartermi.net>
Just for laughs (or frowns), what is the price of gas in Germany?
do not archive
> ...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices???
> just for the laughs [Wink]
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
List,
Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next month.....however,
Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"?
Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good old American
slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed when two or
more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each other) got into a spitting
contest (cleaned-up description) about the retail price of fuel.
Those were the good old days!! Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s.
do not archive
Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: More Gas..... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
I pumped gas when I was a kid in High School for 23.9 a gallon.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:39 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: More Gas.....
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
> List,
>
> Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next
> month.....however,
>
> Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"?
>
> Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good old
> American slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed
> when two or more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each
> other) got into a spitting contest (cleaned-up description) about the
> retail price of fuel.
>
> Those were the good old days!! Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s.
>
> do not archive
>
> Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | 701 CG calculations |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Harding" <charding@houston.rr.com>
When calculating your operating CG, what values do you use for the moment arms
for the pilot/pax, fuel and baggage positions?
I cant find anything in the builders manuals that came with my 701.
Over the phone, ZAC quoted 0.6m (23.6 inches) aft of the slat l.e. for both the
pilot/pax and fuel positions (I forgot to ask about the baggage shelf) this
seems a bit high to me.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30549#30549
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: More Gas..... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
A gas war would solve our problems if the retailers were the primary
cause for high fuel prices.
Unfortunately, I don't think those poor guys are making any more
today than they have in the past. The big winners are the crude oil
producers, refiners, and particularly in Europe - the government that
taxes fuel until it squeaks.
With the Indians and Chinese sucking up enough crude that there is a
potential shortage there and a shortage of refining capacity we can
expect no help in the near future.
At least we are looking for 5 or 6 gallons per hour for our
aircraft. Think of the folks who fly older and larger planes that
really suck down the fuel. I remember an article describing one of
the new baby jet planes that uses 90 gph at idle and 300 at max power.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 06:39 AM 4/25/2006, you wrote:
>Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"?
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Johnson" <david_a_g_johnson@btinternet.com>
O.K. I'll bite!
Avgas here is now 1.30 (pounds) per litre - I make that about $8.3 per US
gallon.
Any advance on that?
Dave Johnson
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jhann Gestur" <joeing701@internet.is>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?=
> <joeing701@internet.is>
>
> Not directly Zenith related but effects the hours spent in flying one,
> but the price of gasoline here in Iceland has never been higher.
> $6.15/gallon. Can you beat that. It is not a laughing matter. Really
> pisses me off how taxes can mess up a hobby, but someone has to pay
> them. I would buy that engine if you could find one. (runs on salad oil)
>
> Regards,
> Johann G.
> do not archive
>
>>
>>...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices???
>>just for the laughs [Wink]
>>
>>
>>Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil)
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 701 CG calculations |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
At the bottom of this web link is a Weight and Balance calculations in
PDF format
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7dwg-updates.html
At 07:32 AM 4/25/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Harding" <charding@houston.rr.com>
>
>When calculating your operating CG, what values do you use for the moment
>arms for the pilot/pax, fuel and baggage positions?
>
>I cant find anything in the builders manuals that came with my 701.
>
>Over the phone, ZAC quoted 0.6m (23.6 inches) aft of the slat l.e. for
>both the pilot/pax and fuel positions (I forgot to ask about the baggage
>shelf) this seems a bit high to me.
>
>Chris
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30549#30549
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 701 CG calculations |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
This ought to help and was available in the builders area of the Zenith web site.
Chris Harding wrote:
> When calculating your operating CG, what values do you use for the moment arms
for the pilot/pax, fuel and baggage positions?
>
> I cant find anything in the builders manuals that came with my 701.
>
> Over the phone, ZAC quoted 0.6m (23.6 inches) aft of the slat l.e. for both the
pilot/pax and fuel positions (I forgot to ask about the baggage shelf) this
seems a bit high to me.
>
> Chris
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30574#30574
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I knew there was a reason I emigrated!
I would put mogas in it if I were you!...Actually I do already come to
think of it..
Frank
395 hours HDS, Ex pat brit.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Johnson"
--> <david_a_g_johnson@btinternet.com>
O.K. I'll bite!
Avgas here is now 1.30 (pounds) per litre - I make that about $8.3 per
US gallon.
Any advance on that?
Dave Johnson
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jhann Gestur" <joeing701@internet.is>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?=
> <joeing701@internet.is>
>
> Not directly Zenith related but effects the hours spent in flying one,
> but the price of gasoline here in Iceland has never been higher.
> $6.15/gallon. Can you beat that. It is not a laughing matter. Really
> pisses me off how taxes can mess up a hobby, but someone has to pay
> them. I would buy that engine if you could find one. (runs on salad
oil)
>
> Regards,
> Johann G.
> do not archive
>
>>
>>...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas
prices???
>>just for the laughs [Wink]
>>
>>
>>Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil)
>
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com>
Yes this subject is off topic, but I don't believe it's going to go away
fast, so here's my 2 cents worth:
Paul, I agree with you in part. The retailers (with the exception of company
stores) are not to blame. You mentioned the producers. Here is where I begin
to take exception. It is my understanding that there is an abundance of
crude currently available to the global market, and that the real problem
influencing the market is refinery capacity. George Bush, Dick Chaney and
company recognize the situation, but in reality, does anyone really believe
they will do anything postive with it? Should they do anything?
I feel your mention of the refiners hits the nail on the head. They are
controlling the situation. In spite of all the smoke (all the bogus reasons
for the current pricing), they continue in spite of our screams to charge
what the market will bear. Why build more refineries to increase production
when they are making record profits now?
What can the masses do besides complain? There are five major US companies
in this game, all saying that prices are market driven. Well, we are the
market. There should be a boycott against the largest company. What do you
think would happen if everyone stopped buying all Mobil/Exxon products? I
bet we'd see some real changes - real fast...
Best Regards,
Todd Henning
West Bend, WI
701stol@gmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas.....
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
A gas war would solve our problems if the retailers were the primary cause
for high fuel prices.
Unfortunately, I don't think those poor guys are making any more today than
they have in the past. The big winners are the crude oil producers,
refiners, and particularly in Europe - the government that taxes fuel until
it squeaks.
With the Indians and Chinese sucking up enough crude that there is a
potential shortage there and a shortage of refining capacity we can expect
no help in the near future.
At least we are looking for 5 or 6 gallons per hour for our aircraft. Think
of the folks who fly older and larger planes that really suck down the fuel.
I remember an article describing one of the new baby jet planes that uses 90
gph at idle and 300 at max power.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Barthold" <peter.barthold@t-online.de>
Geez, hope I didn't start something here :?
Last post about fuel from my side:
Germany
Auto fuel: 6.00 to 6.50 US$ per USgallon
Avgas: 8.90 US$ per USgallon (same as EGKH in UK, according to www.thehangar.co.uk)
BTW: The "salad oil" aviation engine is REALITY!!
Hirth Motoren in Germany is experimenting with a 2 stroke 2-cylinder heavy fuel engine, based on 3503 model (www.hirth-engines.de)
Regards
Peter
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30581#30581
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: More Gas..... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "KOBO" <kobo1@cyberbeach.net>
Does anyone have an idea what the US gov't pays for all the fuel it uses?
Even the airlines get such a better rate because of the volumn they use.
do not archive
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas.....
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
> I pumped gas when I was a kid in High School for 23.9 a gallon.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:39 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: More Gas.....
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>>
>> List,
>>
>> Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next
>> month.....however,
>>
>> Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"?
>>
>> Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good
>> old
>> American slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed
>> when two or more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each
>> other) got into a spitting contest (cleaned-up description) about the
>> retail price of fuel.
>>
>> Those were the good old days!! Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 701 CG calculations |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
Chris
I actually weighed my 701 with me in the pilot seat and with the seat empty.
>From this I derived the cg of the pilot (which will be the same for the
passenger).
I measured the shape and location of the wing fuel tanks to determine the cg
of the fuel. The tanks themselves were included when weighing the airplane
itself.
The datum point is the leading edge of the slat.
Pilot cg is .637 meters aft of the datum (ZAC says .6 meters)
My 10 gal wing fuel tanks (actually 10.8 gal) are .656 meters aft (ZAC shows
.5 meters aft but that may be for the smaller wing tanks)
I used ZAC's luggage number of 1.05 meters aft.
Chuck D.
N701TX
> Chris Harding wrote:
> > When calculating your operating CG, what values do you use for the
moment arms for the pilot/pax, fuel and baggage positions?
> >
> > I cant find anything in the builders manuals that came with my 701.
> >
> > Over the phone, ZAC quoted 0.6m (23.6 inches) aft of the slat l.e. for
both the pilot/pax and fuel positions (I forgot to ask about the baggage
shelf) this seems a bit high to me.
> >
> > Chris
>
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
I am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After viewing the Firewall
construction photo section on the Zenith CD, reading the materials lists,and
the aluminum cutting layouts, I still can't figure out what material is
used for the Firewall. I notice the main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached
directly to the main Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or some
form of steel? If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to contact
with aluminum?
Sorry to ask such a basic question but I am trying to plan ahead..
Thanks,
Ron Culver
CH-701 ..scratch from plans ..cutting aluminum at present..
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Ron, I think it is galvanized steel. I will put a magnet on mine this p.m. to
confirm. Bill
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: More Gas..... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <bakpakr2@cox.net>
You must be a lot older than me. : ) When I pumped gas in high school it was
35.9 cents a gallon in 1971. $3.06 today in San Diego for regular.
John
N701HW - reserved. One hotel whiskey....please
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas.....
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
> I pumped gas when I was a kid in High School for 23.9 a gallon.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:39 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: More Gas.....
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>>
>> List,
>>
>> Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next
>> month.....however,
>>
>> Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"?
>>
>> Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good
>> old
>> American slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed
>> when two or more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each
>> other) got into a spitting contest (cleaned-up description) about the
>> retail price of fuel.
>>
>> Those were the good old days!! Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s.
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>> Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Todd,
I'll try to address your comments and issues, then attempt to stop
posting on this subject. I don't think this is really off topic, but
it is so rife with political overtones I think it is best
avoided. Off list communications are always welcome. . .
There are so many issues adding up to high crude oil and distillate
prices that there is not one simple answer to the problem.
I think the biggest long term issue is the global shortage of crude
oil production capacity vs. the global demand. This is not currently
obvious because of the current inventories you mentioned. Still, the
demand tends to suck up all the supply over long periods of time and
has done so for several years.
There are many short term issues making this situation worse. One is
the political problems in several oil producing countries including
Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, and Venezuela. Any time one of these places
makes oil related news (meaning nearly every day) the people who buy
crude oil for refining into gasoline and other marketable stuff hurry
up and buy up their needs in the futures markets causing the prices to go up.
One new factor in the oil price equation is new interest in financial
markets. Particularly, there are new funds and other trading media
that allow people to invest( gamble?) money on the idea that oil and
gas prices will continue to go up. There are so many investors
piling so much money into these new funds that the price of oil is pushed up.
Another big contributor to this problem is the US balance of
trade. We buy so much more goods than we sell to foreigners that the
only possible reaction is for the US dollar to become
weaker. Combine this with the fact that crude oil is priced
everywhere in US dollars and you discover that the price must go
up. Something like 1/3 of all US imports each year is crude oil. So
we wind up trading ever weakening dollars for the crude. I expect
this to get even worse since some of our fine politicians object to
foreigners buying US assets with the dollars they got for the
oil. The net result could be a reluctance for foreigners to accept
those unusable dollars in the future - leading to even higher oil
prices. Add to this the fact that our government spends trillions of
dollars more than it receives in taxes and you get even more pressure
to weaken the dollar and increase oil prices.
I agree with you that refining capacity is an issue in the USA. This
was highlighted when storms took out a significant portion of our
refining capacity last year. On top of that, we can't just build
more refineries. That takes many years and must overcome the NIMBY
problem (Not In My Back Yard) which causes any proposal for a new
refinery to face many years of political objections from the local
population where it is proposed.
I wish there were something Bush, Chaney, or any other government
leaders could do about all this. I am afraid anything they do just
makes things worse. Bush is currently pushing alternative fuels with
great gusto. Alas, while this might relieve some of the pressure on
oil consumption it will also increase the prices we all pay for fuel
rather than reducing the average prices. I suppose we could drill in
ANWAR but the Greenies go ballistic anytime that is proposed. It
seems they are more worried about a few wild animals than prices at
the gas pumps.
The bottom line for those of us who want to fly around in planes is
to keep our planes small and fuel consumption limited. I am afraid
we will not see significantly lower fuel prices in our lifetimes.
I have heard proposals for boycotts of the big oil companies
before. I don't support such activities as I feel they just won't
work. So long as people are willing to pay for fuel the companies
will provide it. If we really want to take action to reduce fuel
prices we must actually reduce fuel consumption. Tell that to the
mothers whose kids want after school activities or the people who
commute to work.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>Paul, I agree with you in part. The retailers (with the exception of company
>stores) are not to blame. You mentioned the producers. Here is where I begin
>to take exception. It is my understanding that there is an abundance of
>crude currently available to the global market, and that the real problem
>influencing the market is refinery capacity. George Bush, Dick Chaney and
>company recognize the situation, but in reality, does anyone really believe
>they will do anything postive with it? Should they do anything?
Message 24
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| Subject: | wing spar insert to center wing section |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "tinerj2005@tinerj.com" <tinerj2005@tinerj.com>
Building 601xl. I'm about the drill the holes to fit the wing spar center
section to the cabin floor. The photo guide says to insert and bolt the
wing spar inserts in the center section. I'm to drill a hole in the insert
to match the middle hole in the center section.
I've reviewed the plans, the photo guide, and the archives but cannot
figure out how far the bolt hole goes in the spar insert.
Later, the spar insert will be used to make a jig to locate the distance
and angle of the rear frame channel relative to the wing spar so that the
attach plates will line up with the wing's rear channel.
However, I'm not that far along. My current goal is to get the spar insert
at the right distance in the center spar section. Does anyone have the
dimension for those holes?
My wing spar inserts, 6B13, are perfectly rectangular, 200mm horizontal and
212 vertical.
John Hudson Tiner
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
The firewall included in my kit is made of galvanized steel.
Paul
XL wings (still . . .)
At 09:17 AM 4/25/2006, you wrote:
>am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After
>viewing the Firewall construction photo section on the Zenith CD,
>reading the materials lists,and the aluminum cutting layouts, I
>still can't figure out what material is used for the Firewall. I
>notice the main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached directly
>to the main Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or some
>form of steel? If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to
>contact with aluminum?
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: More Gas..... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
List . . . this is kind of a fun, off-beat topic. Do not archive. I
maintain the real cost of gas today is cheaper than in the "good old days".
When I was in high school in '52 and had my first Chevy, I paid about $ .30
a gallon. Prices have gone up 6 x since '52 which would make gas $1.80 per
gallon today. However, that Chevy only got 12 mpg, and it's not unusual for
a car today to get 24 mpg. The current price of gas would have to go up to
$3.60 per gallon for the cost per mile driven to be the same as in '52
dollars.
Almost everything is about 6x higher including starting salaries out of
college. ($5,000 / yr. for me vs. $40,000 now (engineer) so it shouldn't
cost a young couple any more to live now than it did then except for one
thing, and that is housing. We have "trained" our kids to expect too much.
We used to be satisfied with a 1,000 sf. starter ranch with 3 bedrooms, 1
bath, and no family room costing $20,000. Such a home can still be bought
for $120,000 (6x) in ordinary areas. (San Francisco and the other big
metropolatin areas are not ordinary.) Now our kids wouldn't be caught dead
in such a starter house. They expect and buy at least 2 1/2 baths, a big
family room, etc.. Hence their house payments are out of sight, and the two
of them have to work. And none of them remember how the highest tax bracket
in the Eisenhauer years was 90%. End of the trivia for today. As I say, do
not archive. Robert Schoenberger 701
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <bakpakr2@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas.....
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" <bakpakr2@cox.net>
>
> You must be a lot older than me. : ) When I pumped gas in high school it
> was
> 35.9 cents a gallon in 1971. $3.06 today in San Diego for regular.
>
> John
> N701HW - reserved. One hotel whiskey....please
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas.....
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
>> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>>
>> I pumped gas when I was a kid in High School for 23.9 a gallon.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:39 AM
>> Subject: Zenith-List: More Gas.....
>>
>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> List,
>>>
>>> Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next
>>> month.....however,
>>>
>>> Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"?
>>>
>>> Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good
>>> old
>>> American slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed
>>> when two or more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each
>>> other) got into a spitting contest (cleaned-up description) about the
>>> retail price of fuel.
>>>
>>> Those were the good old days!! Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s.
>>>
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>> Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
I have tried numerous methods to flatten and smooth edges on aluminum sheet I've
cut. Nothing yet has made them look professional. I take my time cutting to
produce minimum ridges and distortion but even after filing and sanding I can
not get that pro-look.
Somebody out there must know a secret. Please share. What is the trick?
Thanks,
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL, 3300
Remember: the second mouse gets the cheese!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30627#30627
Message 28
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| Subject: | Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes...but nobody knows what the trick is....:)
1) First thing to remember is that tin snips will stretch the edge of
the sheet if you try to cut too much off at once...So if you imagine a
freshly cut edge where the edge is longer than the rest of the sheet
then you will have a wavy edge.
To stop this, do not cut up to the edge on the first cut, rather stay
1/4 to 3/8ths away from where the finished edge will be on our first
cut.
Tha second cut you go up to the line and it will not be wavy.
2) Do not cut off the end of the snips....I.e do not close the snips all
the way otherwise you get a notch where the tips of the blades come
together.
3)Use a fine (ish) file to remove the snip marks
4) Use a red scotchbrite pad to remove the file marks
5) To automate steps 3 and 4 use a medium Scotchbrite wheel mounted in a
DECENT (not one that slows down with any pressure) bench grinder...Mine
is a 3/4HP arbor Freight PROFESSIONAL model...Bloody marvelous machine.
You get the wheel from Van's aircraft for $45 (ya spendy I know)...but
now I have one of those I don't know how I built the Zodiac without it!
6) the edge can be rounded (deburred really) slightly with either the
wheel or pad.
7) For sheets try bending the edge down slightly with seaming pliers,
wheel thingy or happing the edge with a hammer overhangine the edge of
your bench by 1/2"...This will hold the edge down tight with the rivets
Good luck
Frank
HDS 295 hours
RV7A almost finished
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AZFlyer
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:35 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum
edge?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
I have tried numerous methods to flatten and smooth edges on aluminum
sheet I've cut. Nothing yet has made them look professional. I take my
time cutting to produce minimum ridges and distortion but even after
filing and sanding I can not get that pro-look.
Somebody out there must know a secret. Please share. What is the
trick?
Thanks,
Mike
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL, 3300
Remember: the second mouse gets the cheese!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30627#30627
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
Yep, it's galvanized steel. I put some Zinc Chromate between them.
lo2u wrote:
> I am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After viewing the
Firewall construction photo section on the Zenith CD, reading the materials lists,and
the aluminum cutting layouts, I still can't figure out what material is
used for the Firewall. I notice the main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached
directly to the main Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or
some form of steel? If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to contact
with aluminum?
>
> Sorry to ask such a basic question but I am trying to plan ahead..
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Culver
> CH-701 ..scratch from plans ..cutting aluminum at present..
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30636#30636
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" <agustafson@chartermi.net>
File then Scotchbrite!
>> Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge?
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: More Gas..... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi guys,
This subject is not off topic for us builder/fliers if you use the
"do not archive" insert.
There is much you can do if you decide it's worth the effort. Put an
engine in that burns
less than 4 gallons per hour, car gas. During the next round of "low
gas prices" fill 5 or 6
5-gallon cans of car gas and use a motorcycle to get to and from the
airport. I'm
still riding my motorcycle on $2.25/gal gas. The much maligned
Stratus Subaru gives me
a 3.2 gal/hr run at anything near 100 mph and 90% of the time there's
no hurry. Further
downstream, look carefully at the "plug hybrid cars" that are only a
conversion in this country.
The Prius is a plug hybrid in Japan, but not here. Good idea if you
only drive 30-40 miles
each day. You only have to plug in each night at a cost of $2.00. At
the prices we're seeing
the oil lines are now filling up quickly. I expect prices to stall in
a month or two and they'll
be coming back down to the next "bottom" of $2.25 to $2.50. Don't
think people just keep
running till it's gone. The slow down has begun and the product has
to flow while other forms
of fuel and energy make their presence known. I expect E85 to go up
in price within a few
cents of gasoline. Remember Diesel? The pipeline isn't large enough
for the number of vehicles being sold
to use it. Everyone will conserve at anything above $3.00. Those of us
who will continue to fly
use car-gas at low-fuel flows. We've seen Lycombings in my area down
waiting for better prices.
The worst is that our local FBO, rental, instruction and training
company has folded his tent.
I doubt he will be replaced by anyone. Don't expect government to
bail you out. If they get
involved, we'll have non-stop gas lines here for sure.
The five companies are a pool with common representation and
transportation for product.
Doubt that any boycott would do any good. You'd have to boycott the
entire product line.
Good luck,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com>
>
>Yes this subject is off topic, but I don't believe it's going to go away
>fast, so here's my 2 cents worth:
>
>
>What can the masses do besides complain? There are five major US companies
>in this game, all saying that prices are market driven. Well, we are the
>market. There should be a boycott against the largest company. What do you
>think would happen if everyone stopped buying all Mobil/Exxon products? I
>bet we'd see some real changes - real fast...
>
>Best Regards,
>Todd Henning
>West Bend, WI
>701stol@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Ron,
If you're scratch building, I'd recommend you look at .015 stainless
as it's more durable and easier to mount structure to
than the typical galvanized metal recommended in the plans.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Ron Culver wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>
>I am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After viewing the Firewall
construction photo section on the Zenith CD, reading the materials lists,and
the aluminum cutting layouts, I still can't figure out what material is
used for the Firewall. I notice the main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached
directly to the main Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or
some form of steel? If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to contact
with aluminum?
>
>Sorry to ask such a basic question but I am trying to plan ahead..
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ron Culver
>CH-701 ..scratch from plans ..cutting aluminum at present..
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
In response to Mike Miller's question on sheet metal edge treatment and Frank Hinde's
response, the "wheel thingy" Frank referred to is an "edge former", available
for $39 from Cleaveland Tool (cat. no.EF60). It does a great job and the
riveted joints look very professional. You can get a similar result on a straight
edged part by letting the part hang over the edge of a worktable by about
1/4 inch and gently tapping the overhanging edge along it's length with a
rubber mallet. This takes practice to get a really good looking result and it
doesn't work so well on curved parts. I've tried both ways and I recommend the
$39 tool.
George
Message 34
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I would agree...but I think stainless is harder to work, drill
etc...than galvnised.
Reason I would use SS is that its what Van's uses and everyone knows how
superior a Van's aircraft is...:).
But seriously, the one problem I found with the galvanised is that if
you use the cheesy overflow bottle provided you will eventually get
radiator fluid on the firewall....almost ubelievably the glycol strips
the galvanising straight off the firewall..then of course it rusts!
There is a much better overflow bottle by the way that does not have a
hole that glycol can leak out of, usually available at your local
autparts store.
Frank
601HDS
RV7a..almost finished.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryMcFarland
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
--> <larry@macsmachine.com>
Ron,
If you're scratch building, I'd recommend you look at .015 stainless
as it's more durable and easier to mount structure to than the typical
galvanized metal recommended in the plans.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive
Ron Culver wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>
>I am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After
viewing the Firewall construction photo section on the Zenith CD,
reading the materials lists,and the aluminum cutting layouts, I still
can't figure out what material is used for the Firewall. I notice the
main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached directly to the main
Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or some form of steel?
If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to contact with
aluminum?
>
>Sorry to ask such a basic question but I am trying to plan ahead..
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ron Culver
>CH-701 ..scratch from plans ..cutting aluminum at present..
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Mike,
Cut your aluminum half an inch away from the cut line. Then cut to
within 1/16 inch of the cut line. Make your cut line
with a good ink marker and a good straight edge or piece of new 2"
aluminum angle. Make the final trim at the near edge
of your ink mark with Weiss hand shears taking short easy bites that
don't stretch the metal. Then move the final cut edge
on your table so the edge is only a quarter overhanging. Sight down the
edge and file the edge lightly to straighten and debur.
Take your time,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
AZFlyer wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
>
>I have tried numerous methods to flatten and smooth edges on aluminum sheet I've
cut. Nothing yet has made them look professional. I take my time cutting
to produce minimum ridges and distortion but even after filing and sanding I can
not get that pro-look.
>
>Somebody out there must know a secret. Please share. What is the trick?
>
>Thanks,
>Mike
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: More Gas..... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 4/25/06 11:48 AM, CH701 at 701stol@gmail.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com>
>
> Yes this subject is off topic, but I don't believe it's going to go away
> fast, so here's my 2 cents worth:
>
>...
>
> What can the masses do besides complain? There are five major US companies
> in this game, all saying that prices are market driven. Well, we are the
> market. There should be a boycott against the largest company. What do you
> think would happen if everyone stopped buying all Mobil/Exxon products? I
> bet we'd see some real changes - real fast...
>
> Best Regards,
> Todd Henning
> West Bend, WI
> 701stol@gmail.com
>
Exxon-Mobil would then just sell their product to other distributors and
their local retailers would suffer. It wouldn't do any harm to the parent
corporation at all since you'd end up buying their oil from other companies
anyway.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 37
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
That's what I said...the wheel thingy...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
Swinford
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: edge former
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford"
--> <grs-pms@comcast.net>
In response to Mike Miller's question on sheet metal edge treatment and
Frank Hinde's response, the "wheel thingy" Frank referred to is an "edge
former", available for $39 from Cleaveland Tool (cat. no.EF60). It does
a great job and the riveted joints look very professional. You can get
a similar result on a straight edged part by letting the part hang over
the edge of a worktable by about 1/4 inch and gently tapping the
overhanging edge along it's length with a rubber mallet. This takes
practice to get a really good looking result and it doesn't work so well
on curved parts. I've tried both ways and I recommend the $39 tool.
George
Message 38
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Turnquist <ter_turn@yahoo.com>
I'll take a thou. if you order them..
Terry Turnquist
Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant"
Thanks Robert,
I checked Wick's, their price is $0.11 each for the 5/16" Avex (A5)
rivets...
When Crawford had them, they were selling them $46.00 per thousand and
$22.00 per thousand for the A4's... I ordered 4000 of the A4's from them
today... After doing the math, I think I'd be better off buying the minimum
order of 8000 of the A5's from Crawford, at $368.00 and maybe trying to
resale what I have left over... The A5's is where I'm really struggling
right now, as I'm fresh out of em'! and I need them before I can proceed
with my wings...
Thanks!
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "ROBERT SCEPPA"
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A5 Rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA
>
>> Hi Randy, have you tried Wicks Aircraft? I am in a
>> Glastar project and we did order some from there.
>> Bob S.
>
> --- Randy Bryant wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant"
>>
>>
>> I contacted Crawford Products today to order some A5
>> rivets (1604-0514) and found out the don't stock
>> these anymore... They offered to special order some
>> for me but the minimum order was 8000.
>>
>> Does anyone have another "cheap" contact for rivets
>> for the 601XL?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Randy Bryant
>> N344RB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> FAQ,
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>>
>>
>> Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 39
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
Thank God the Corvair engine I'm installing doesn't need an overflow bottle. :P
frank.hinde(at)hp.com wrote:
>
> But seriously, the one problem I found with the galvanised is that if
> you use the cheesy overflow bottle provided you will eventually get
> radiator fluid on the firewall
> --
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30666#30666
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: More Gas..... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
The gasoline supply chain is WAY to complex for that to work. Let's look and El
Dorado Arkansas. Population 22,000.
We have a refinery here. Lion Oil. We have gas stations sporting pretty much all
the major oil company names.
With only one exception that I know of. Every drop of gasoline in each one of those
stations comes from the same rack at the Lion Oil Refinery. Each "Brand"
has some additives that are specific to them but it is the same gas.
--------
W.R. Gig Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30672#30672
Message 41
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|
Cc: Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@cox.net>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Nor the Jabiru 3300 I'm going to install,
Ed
Do Not Archive
---- Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
>
> Thank God the Corvair engine I'm installing doesn't need an overflow bottle.
:P
>
>
>
> frank.hinde(at)hp.com wrote:
> >
> > But seriously, the one problem I found with the galvanised is that if
> > you use the cheesy overflow bottle provided you will eventually get
> > radiator fluid on the firewall
> > --
>
>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> --------
> W.R. Gig Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30666#30666
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 42
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
Thanks guys.Very helpful as usual. Where would be the best source of
Stainless or of Galvanized and is 0.015 standard for either or both..
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:12 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Firewall
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I would agree...but I think stainless is harder to work, drill
> etc...than galvnised.
>
> Reason I would use SS is that its what Van's uses and everyone knows how
> superior a Van's aircraft is...:).
>
> But seriously, the one problem I found with the galvanised is that if
> you use the cheesy overflow bottle provided you will eventually get
> radiator fluid on the firewall....almost ubelievably the glycol strips
> the galvanising straight off the firewall..then of course it rusts!
>
> There is a much better overflow bottle by the way that does not have a
> hole that glycol can leak out of, usually available at your local
> autparts store.
>
> Frank
> 601HDS
> RV7a..almost finished.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> LarryMcFarland
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:55 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
> --> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Ron,
> If you're scratch building, I'd recommend you look at .015 stainless
> as it's more durable and easier to mount structure to than the typical
> galvanized metal recommended in the plans.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive
>
> Ron Culver wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>>
>>I am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After
> viewing the Firewall construction photo section on the Zenith CD,
> reading the materials lists,and the aluminum cutting layouts, I still
> can't figure out what material is used for the Firewall. I notice the
> main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached directly to the main
> Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or some form of steel?
> If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to contact with
> aluminum?
>>
>>Sorry to ask such a basic question but I am trying to plan ahead..
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Ron Culver
>>CH-701 ..scratch from plans ..cutting aluminum at present..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
I try to avoid using snips when possible, preferring the method taught to me by
David Barth of CanZac aviation. It gives you a straight edge that looks like
it has been cut with a shear. Read about it at
http://www.ch601.org/tools/olfa.htm
--------
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - awaiting kit
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30677#30677
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: More Gas..... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
Trying to decide if I should build a still,grow some corn ,and run my 701 on
ethanol?
Or go with a bio-diesel engine.
any suggestions?
please do not archive. I'm not serious. :)
Message 45
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
The stainless will be lighter..
But
If you decide to go with galvanized sheet. 29 guage thickness is what you
should ask for. I got mine from a local coragated metal supply house.
$4.00 for a 40in x 40in square... They take huge coils of sheet and form
them into corrigated roofing..... and snipped me off an end..... Metal
roofing supply house in the yellow pages... A heating and cooling duct
work shop may also have some of the thinner 29 guage sheet, Although its
likely thinner than they use for standard duct work.
BTW if you find a local Metal roofing supply house that makes their
corrigated roofing in the shop. They will also most likely have a HUGE
sheet brake with the proper radius for bending the .040 longerons as
well. They charged $5.00 to bend my 701 longerons the same day I picked
up my firewall sheet.
Monty
At 05:43 PM 4/25/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>
>Thanks guys.Very helpful as usual. Where would be the best source of
>Stainless or of Galvanized and is 0.015 standard for either or both..
>Ron
Message 46
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
All-
Seems that gas prices are on everyone's mind Remember, this all started with
Gary and me talking offline, or so we thought.
The intention of my last post was to back up Gary's contention that, hey, I
thought I clicked on a direct link rather than the list link.
Matt, any posibility that there might be a gremlin at work?
GREMLIN- a fictional being created in WWII by maintenance crewman for the purpose
of justifying inexplicable mechanical malfunctions.
Bill
Message 47
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Builders/Inteneters
I just yesterday found out about this list so joined. I am building a ZodiacCH601XL,
my first all metal airplane. I have in the past built the KR-1 and
the KR-2 both are composite. I was a member of the KRNet which is the same
as this one, that is a medium where builders of the same aircraft can exchange
ideas, solve problems, receive advice from seasoned metal aircraft builders,
etc. This airplane will have a training wheel up front, (I am not qualified in
tail draggers) I will use the Jabiru 3300 engine and since it will be built
to be a sport aircraft I will not have any IFR instruments. I would like to know
if there are any builders or owners of completed Zodiac XL aircraft in my
area. I am in central Texas.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
rstone4@hot.rr.com
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Re: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Just a clarification: I am not quite sure I have a problem.
I was just surprised that both, the reamer hole and the regular (not reamed) hole
are both 0.375"
(give or take 0.001" due to measurement error).
I was expecting the non-reamed hole to be larger...
Thanks much for all the replies
Carlos
Lche-vitrine ou lche-cran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Mike . . try a Jillson snipper. No rough edges. Robert Schoenberger 701
----- Original Message -----
From: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:35 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum
edge?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
>
> I have tried numerous methods to flatten and smooth edges on aluminum
> sheet I've cut. Nothing yet has made them look professional. I take my
> time cutting to produce minimum ridges and distortion but even after
> filing and sanding I can not get that pro-look.
>
> Somebody out there must know a secret. Please share. What is the trick?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> --------
> Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
> 601 XL, 3300
>
> Remember: the second mouse gets the cheese!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30627#30627
>
>
>
Message 50
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Take a look at this map. http://www.frappr.com/zenith601
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stone
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:32 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: New to the list
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" <rstone4@hot.rr.com>
Builders/Inteneters
I just yesterday found out about this list so joined. I am building a
ZodiacCH601XL, my first all metal airplane. I have in the past built the
KR-1 and the KR-2 both are composite. I was a member of the KRNet which is
the same as this one, that is a medium where builders of the same aircraft
can exchange ideas, solve problems, receive advice from seasoned metal
aircraft builders, etc. This airplane will have a training wheel up front,
(I am not qualified in tail draggers) I will use the Jabiru 3300 engine and
since it will be built to be a sport aircraft I will not have any IFR
instruments. I would like to know if there are any builders or owners of
completed Zodiac XL aircraft in my area. I am in central Texas.
Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx
rstone4@hot.rr.com
Message 51
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
I'll keep you in mind if I decide to order the 8000... Today I ordered 1000
from Aircraft Spruce at $56.00/thousand, just to get me started on my wings
in a few days...
Thanks,
Randy
N344RB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Turnquist" <ter_turn@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A5 Rivets
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Turnquist <ter_turn@yahoo.com>
>
> I'll take a thou. if you order them..
>
> Terry Turnquist
>
>
> Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant"
>
> Thanks Robert,
>
> I checked Wick's, their price is $0.11 each for the 5/16" Avex (A5)
> rivets...
>
> When Crawford had them, they were selling them $46.00 per thousand and
> $22.00 per thousand for the A4's... I ordered 4000 of the A4's from them
> today... After doing the math, I think I'd be better off buying the
> minimum
> order of 8000 of the A5's from Crawford, at $368.00 and maybe trying to
> resale what I have left over... The A5's is where I'm really struggling
> right now, as I'm fresh out of em'! and I need them before I can proceed
> with my wings...
>
> Thanks!
>
> Randy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ROBERT SCEPPA"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A5 Rivets
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA
>>
>>> Hi Randy, have you tried Wicks Aircraft? I am in a
>>> Glastar project and we did order some from there.
>>> Bob S.
>>
>> --- Randy Bryant wrote:
>>
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant"
>>>
>>>
>>> I contacted Crawford Products today to order some A5
>>> rivets (1604-0514) and found out the don't stock
>>> these anymore... They offered to special order some
>>> for me but the minimum order was 8000.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have another "cheap" contact for rivets
>>> for the 601XL?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Randy Bryant
>>> N344RB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> browse
>>> Subscriptions page,
>>> FAQ,
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>>>
>>>
>>> Admin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
I used a knife sharpner. The plastic kind with the v-notch. About 3 passes and
the edge is smooth and beveled. Jack in los osos ca. Hope to fly friday.
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: 701 CG calculations |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Harding" <charding@houston.rr.com>
Many thanks to everyone for their assistance. I think I may well go with Chuck's
(more conservative) figures for fuel and pilot/pax until I can do the same
as him and weigh the airplane with and without me and fuel in it.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30732#30732
Message 54
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
> Matt, any posibility that there might be a gremlin at work?
> GREMLIN- a fictional being created in WWII by maintenance crewman for the
purpose of justifying inexplicable mechanical malfunctions.
> Bill
GREMLIN- also a car built by AMC that served me very well on not a whole lot of
gas with no problems for quite a few years. No matter what some
may have thought of the looks. But probably a big part of the miserliness that
allowed me to afford my play toys.
Mike Sinclair w/ a 701 & 912uls that really is working great on the small amount
of fuel it consumes. Small being relative, just thinking of how
much gas the Lycoming in that Cessna was sucking down! And that amount is small
compared to a lot of aircraft out there. So it takes me a little
longer to get there, I enjoy the scenery!
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