---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/25/06: 54 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:20 AM - Re: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts (n801bh@netzero.com) 2. 12:30 AM - Re: HDS Wings (Peter Barthold) 3. 05:06 AM - Re: Re: HDS Wings (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?=) 4. 05:20 AM - Re: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts (Geoff Heap) 5. 05:43 AM - Salad Oil Engines FKA: HDS Wings (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 6. 05:43 AM - Re: Re: HDS Wings (Richard McLachlan) 7. 06:15 AM - Re: Re: HDS Wings (Aaron Gustafson) 8. 06:42 AM - More Gas..... (Zed Smith) 9. 06:59 AM - Re: More Gas..... (Dave Ruddiman) 10. 07:34 AM - 701 CG calculations (Chris Harding) 11. 07:51 AM - Re: More Gas..... (Paul Mulwitz) 12. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: HDS Wings (Dave Johnson) 13. 08:35 AM - Re: 701 CG calculations (Monty Graves) 14. 08:42 AM - Re: 701 CG calculations (Gig Giacona) 15. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: HDS Wings (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 08:49 AM - Re: More Gas..... (CH701) 17. 09:03 AM - Re: HDS Wings (Peter Barthold) 18. 09:08 AM - Re: More Gas..... (KOBO) 19. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: 701 CG calculations (Chuck Deiterich) 20. 09:19 AM - Firewall (Ron Culver) 21. 09:41 AM - Re: Firewall (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 22. 09:43 AM - Re: More Gas..... (John) 23. 10:28 AM - Re: More Gas..... (Paul Mulwitz) 24. 10:28 AM - wing spar insert to center wing section (tinerj2005@tinerj.com) 25. 10:29 AM - Re: Firewall (Paul Mulwitz) 26. 10:37 AM - Re: More Gas..... (Robert Schoenberger) 27. 11:39 AM - Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (AZFlyer) 28. 12:06 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 29. 12:49 PM - Re: Firewall (Gig Giacona) 30. 12:50 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (Aaron Gustafson) 31. 12:52 PM - Re: More Gas..... (LarryMcFarland) 32. 12:56 PM - Re: Firewall (LarryMcFarland) 33. 01:07 PM - edge former (George Swinford) 34. 01:13 PM - Re: Firewall (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 35. 01:25 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (LarryMcFarland) 36. 01:37 PM - Re: More Gas..... (Bryan Martin) 37. 01:37 PM - Re: edge former (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 38. 02:11 PM - Re: A5 Rivets (Terry Turnquist) 39. 02:23 PM - Re: Firewall (Gig Giacona) 40. 02:31 PM - Re: More Gas..... (Gig Giacona) 41. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: Firewall () 42. 02:44 PM - Re: Firewall (Ron Culver) 43. 02:47 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (Tim Juhl) 44. 03:02 PM - Re: More Gas..... (Flydog1966@aol.com) 45. 03:36 PM - Re: Firewall (Monty Graves) 46. 04:15 PM - Gas?? (Bill Naumuk) 47. 04:34 PM - New to the list (Robert L. Stone) 48. 05:38 PM - RE : Re: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts (Carlos Sa) 49. 06:30 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (Robert Schoenberger) 50. 06:32 PM - Re: New to the list (kevinbonds) 51. 06:39 PM - Re: A5 Rivets (Randy Bryant) 52. 07:03 PM - Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? (Jack Russell) 53. 07:11 PM - Re: 701 CG calculations (Chris Harding) 54. 08:20 PM - Re: Gas?? (Mike Sinclair) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:34 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" The easiest way to is mic the bolts, get an avaerage size of the shank , then order a reamer that size. MSC, Mc Master and other tool houses sell all sizes of reamers in .001 increments at very reasonable prices. For instance, you have bolts that measure .373, round up the amount that size needed for the job and order a .372 reamer for 8 bucks or so. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Dan Ribb" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Ribb" Check out this article. It really helped me out - especially the last 3 paragraphs. http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html I found this helpful too. http://exp-aircraft.com/library/alexande/hardware.html - Dan > ----- Original Message ----- > Once again, I have managed to create problems .... > Carlos > CH601-HD, plans The easiest way to is mic the bolts, get an avaerage size of the shank , then order a reamer that size. MSC, Mc Master and other tool houses sell all sizes of reamers in .001 increments at very reasonable prices.For instance, you have bolts that measure .373, round up the amount that size needed for the job and order a .372 reamer for 8 bucks or so. do not archive BenHaas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com --"DanRibb"dan@danribb.comwrote: --Zenith-Listmessagepostedby:"DanRibb"dan@danribb.com Checkoutthisarticle.Itreallyhelpedmeout-especiallythelast3 paragraphs. http://www3.sympatico.ca/fhofmann/art_round_hole.html Ifoundthishelpfultoo. http://exp-aircraft.com/library/alexande/hardware.html -Dan -----OriginalMessage----- Onceagain,Ihavemanagedtocreateproblems.... Carlos CH601-HD,plans ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:40 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings From: "Peter Barthold" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Barthold" Hello Gary, sorry for the inconvenience! I use the "Firefox" Browser and my Website works perfect with it. I just tried Windows "Explorer" and JIKES!! most pictures are scrapped!! [Embarassed] Looks like a major overhaulj :? I can send you some pics if you like. BTW, the downside of my cradle is its height. I now have to use a step to reach the middle of the wing. ...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices??? just for the laughs [Wink] Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil) DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30494#30494 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:50 AM PST US From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= Not directly Zenith related but effects the hours spent in flying one, but the price of gasoline here in Iceland has never been higher. $6.15/gallon. Can you beat that. It is not a laughing matter. Really pisses me off how taxes can mess up a hobby, but someone has to pay them. I would buy that engine if you could find one. (runs on salad oil) Regards, Johann G. do not archive > >...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices??? just for the laughs [Wink] > > >Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil) > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:33 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Hi Carlos Depending on the setup and the tool, you may sometimes get a hole bigger than the drill. However, that does not matter as long as the hole is still smaller than the reamer that you are about to put in it. Check the hole size after the drill is done. If it is O.K. put the reamer through. Always run your reamers a lot slower than your drill (rpm). If the reamer cuts, the hole WILL be the same diameter as the reamer. Your chuck may not be running true. You should have a clamp on the part for safety. I suggest you do not cut the reamer down. The extra length allows the reamer to flex and follow the drilled hole. A shorter reamer is stronger and if there is runout it will tend to cut oversize like it was a boring bar. Hope this helps..........Geoff. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30518#30518 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:36 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Salad Oil Engines FKA: HDS Wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Hello Johann & Peter: The engine of YOUR dreams exists !!.......well, maybe it won't run on salad oil, or won't run very well, but there have been a number of French Fry Cooking Oil cooking oil conversions done on VW compression-ignition engines....take a look at _http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/vegetable_oil_fuel.php_ (http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel/vegetable_oil_fuel.php) I'm not sure I want to show off my Homebuilt and have it smell like a Wendy's...... Anyway, I may be crazy, but I think this engine has some commercial potential _http://www.dair.co.uk/_ (http://www.dair.co.uk/) and say good-bye to vapor lock and carb icing !!!! Sorry to go off-topic.... Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) In a message dated 4/25/2006 8:07:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, joeing701@internet.is writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= Not directly Zenith related but effects the hours spent in flying one, but the price of gasoline here in Iceland has never been higher. $6.15/gallon. Can you beat that. It is not a laughing matter. Really pisses me off how taxes can mess up a hobby, but someone has to pay them. I would buy that engine if you could find one. (runs on salad oil) Regards, Johann G. do not archive > >...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices??? just for the laughs [Wink] > > >Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil) > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:36 AM PST US From: "Richard McLachlan" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" You are lucky - I wish ours was as cheap as that. Avgas is $8.05 and unleaded mogas $6.75 per US gal here in the UK. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jhann Gestur" Sent: 25 April 2006 13:00 Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings > --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= > > > Not directly Zenith related but effects the hours spent in flying one, > but the price of gasoline here in Iceland has never been higher. > $6.15/gallon. Can you beat that. It is not a laughing matter. Really > pisses me off how taxes can mess up a hobby, but someone has to pay > them. I would buy that engine if you could find one. (runs on salad oil) > > Regards, > Johann G. > do not archive > >> >>...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices??? >>just for the laughs [Wink] >> >> >>Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil) >> >>DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:11 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" Just for laughs (or frowns), what is the price of gas in Germany? do not archive > ...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices??? > just for the laughs [Wink] ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:33 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith List, Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next month.....however, Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"? Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good old American slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed when two or more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each other) got into a spitting contest (cleaned-up description) about the retail price of fuel. Those were the good old days!! Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s. do not archive Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:04 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" I pumped gas when I was a kid in High School for 23.9 a gallon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zed Smith" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:39 AM Subject: Zenith-List: More Gas..... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > List, > > Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next > month.....however, > > Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"? > > Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good old > American slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed > when two or more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each > other) got into a spitting contest (cleaned-up description) about the > retail price of fuel. > > Those were the good old days!! Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s. > > do not archive > > Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:54 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 CG calculations From: "Chris Harding" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Harding" When calculating your operating CG, what values do you use for the moment arms for the pilot/pax, fuel and baggage positions? I cant find anything in the builders manuals that came with my 701. Over the phone, ZAC quoted 0.6m (23.6 inches) aft of the slat l.e. for both the pilot/pax and fuel positions (I forgot to ask about the baggage shelf) this seems a bit high to me. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30549#30549 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:36 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz A gas war would solve our problems if the retailers were the primary cause for high fuel prices. Unfortunately, I don't think those poor guys are making any more today than they have in the past. The big winners are the crude oil producers, refiners, and particularly in Europe - the government that taxes fuel until it squeaks. With the Indians and Chinese sucking up enough crude that there is a potential shortage there and a shortage of refining capacity we can expect no help in the near future. At least we are looking for 5 or 6 gallons per hour for our aircraft. Think of the folks who fly older and larger planes that really suck down the fuel. I remember an article describing one of the new baby jet planes that uses 90 gph at idle and 300 at max power. Paul XL wings do not archive At 06:39 AM 4/25/2006, you wrote: >Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"? --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:57 AM PST US From: "Dave Johnson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Johnson" O.K. I'll bite! Avgas here is now 1.30 (pounds) per litre - I make that about $8.3 per US gallon. Any advance on that? Dave Johnson do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jhann Gestur" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings > --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= > > > Not directly Zenith related but effects the hours spent in flying one, > but the price of gasoline here in Iceland has never been higher. > $6.15/gallon. Can you beat that. It is not a laughing matter. Really > pisses me off how taxes can mess up a hobby, but someone has to pay > them. I would buy that engine if you could find one. (runs on salad oil) > > Regards, > Johann G. > do not archive > >> >>...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices??? >>just for the laughs [Wink] >> >> >>Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil) > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:50 AM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 CG calculations --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves At the bottom of this web link is a Weight and Balance calculations in PDF format http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7dwg-updates.html At 07:32 AM 4/25/2006 -0700, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Harding" > >When calculating your operating CG, what values do you use for the moment >arms for the pilot/pax, fuel and baggage positions? > >I cant find anything in the builders manuals that came with my 701. > >Over the phone, ZAC quoted 0.6m (23.6 inches) aft of the slat l.e. for >both the pilot/pax and fuel positions (I forgot to ask about the baggage >shelf) this seems a bit high to me. > >Chris > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30549#30549 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:28 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 CG calculations From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" This ought to help and was available in the builders area of the Zenith web site. Chris Harding wrote: > When calculating your operating CG, what values do you use for the moment arms for the pilot/pax, fuel and baggage positions? > > I cant find anything in the builders manuals that came with my 701. > > Over the phone, ZAC quoted 0.6m (23.6 inches) aft of the slat l.e. for both the pilot/pax and fuel positions (I forgot to ask about the baggage shelf) this seems a bit high to me. > > Chris -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30574#30574 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I knew there was a reason I emigrated! I would put mogas in it if I were you!...Actually I do already come to think of it.. Frank 395 hours HDS, Ex pat brit. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Johnson Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Johnson" --> O.K. I'll bite! Avgas here is now 1.30 (pounds) per litre - I make that about $8.3 per US gallon. Any advance on that? Dave Johnson do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jhann Gestur" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings > --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= > > > Not directly Zenith related but effects the hours spent in flying one, > but the price of gasoline here in Iceland has never been higher. > $6.15/gallon. Can you beat that. It is not a laughing matter. Really > pisses me off how taxes can mess up a hobby, but someone has to pay > them. I would buy that engine if you could find one. (runs on salad oil) > > Regards, > Johann G. > do not archive > >> >>...and ahh, somebody here who wants ME to post any GERMAN gas prices??? >>just for the laughs [Wink] >> >> >>Peter (considering engines that run on salad oil) > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:17 AM PST US From: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com> Yes this subject is off topic, but I don't believe it's going to go away fast, so here's my 2 cents worth: Paul, I agree with you in part. The retailers (with the exception of company stores) are not to blame. You mentioned the producers. Here is where I begin to take exception. It is my understanding that there is an abundance of crude currently available to the global market, and that the real problem influencing the market is refinery capacity. George Bush, Dick Chaney and company recognize the situation, but in reality, does anyone really believe they will do anything postive with it? Should they do anything? I feel your mention of the refiners hits the nail on the head. They are controlling the situation. In spite of all the smoke (all the bogus reasons for the current pricing), they continue in spite of our screams to charge what the market will bear. Why build more refineries to increase production when they are making record profits now? What can the masses do besides complain? There are five major US companies in this game, all saying that prices are market driven. Well, we are the market. There should be a boycott against the largest company. What do you think would happen if everyone stopped buying all Mobil/Exxon products? I bet we'd see some real changes - real fast... Best Regards, Todd Henning West Bend, WI 701stol@gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz --> A gas war would solve our problems if the retailers were the primary cause for high fuel prices. Unfortunately, I don't think those poor guys are making any more today than they have in the past. The big winners are the crude oil producers, refiners, and particularly in Europe - the government that taxes fuel until it squeaks. With the Indians and Chinese sucking up enough crude that there is a potential shortage there and a shortage of refining capacity we can expect no help in the near future. At least we are looking for 5 or 6 gallons per hour for our aircraft. Think of the folks who fly older and larger planes that really suck down the fuel. I remember an article describing one of the new baby jet planes that uses 90 gph at idle and 300 at max power. Paul XL wings do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:54 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: HDS Wings From: "Peter Barthold" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Barthold" Geez, hope I didn't start something here :? Last post about fuel from my side: Germany Auto fuel: 6.00 to 6.50 US$ per USgallon Avgas: 8.90 US$ per USgallon (same as EGKH in UK, according to www.thehangar.co.uk) BTW: The "salad oil" aviation engine is REALITY!! Hirth Motoren in Germany is experimenting with a 2 stroke 2-cylinder heavy fuel engine, based on 3503 model (www.hirth-engines.de) Regards Peter DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30581#30581 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:50 AM PST US From: "KOBO" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "KOBO" Does anyone have an idea what the US gov't pays for all the fuel it uses? Even the airlines get such a better rate because of the volumn they use. do not archive Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Ruddiman" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > > > I pumped gas when I was a kid in High School for 23.9 a gallon. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zed Smith" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:39 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: More Gas..... > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith >> >> List, >> >> Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next >> month.....however, >> >> Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"? >> >> Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good >> old >> American slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed >> when two or more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each >> other) got into a spitting contest (cleaned-up description) about the >> retail price of fuel. >> >> Those were the good old days!! Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s. >> >> do not archive >> >> Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:58 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 CG calculations --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Chris I actually weighed my 701 with me in the pilot seat and with the seat empty. >From this I derived the cg of the pilot (which will be the same for the passenger). I measured the shape and location of the wing fuel tanks to determine the cg of the fuel. The tanks themselves were included when weighing the airplane itself. The datum point is the leading edge of the slat. Pilot cg is .637 meters aft of the datum (ZAC says .6 meters) My 10 gal wing fuel tanks (actually 10.8 gal) are .656 meters aft (ZAC shows .5 meters aft but that may be for the smaller wing tanks) I used ZAC's luggage number of 1.05 meters aft. Chuck D. N701TX > Chris Harding wrote: > > When calculating your operating CG, what values do you use for the moment arms for the pilot/pax, fuel and baggage positions? > > > > I cant find anything in the builders manuals that came with my 701. > > > > Over the phone, ZAC quoted 0.6m (23.6 inches) aft of the slat l.e. for both the pilot/pax and fuel positions (I forgot to ask about the baggage shelf) this seems a bit high to me. > > > > Chris > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:59 AM PST US From: "Ron Culver" Subject: Zenith-List: Firewall --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" I am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After viewing the Firewall construction photo section on the Zenith CD, reading the materials lists,and the aluminum cutting layouts, I still can't figure out what material is used for the Firewall. I notice the main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached directly to the main Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or some form of steel? If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to contact with aluminum? Sorry to ask such a basic question but I am trying to plan ahead.. Thanks, Ron Culver CH-701 ..scratch from plans ..cutting aluminum at present.. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:09 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Ron, I think it is galvanized steel. I will put a magnet on mine this p.m. to confirm. Bill ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:25 AM PST US From: "John" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" You must be a lot older than me. : ) When I pumped gas in high school it was 35.9 cents a gallon in 1971. $3.06 today in San Diego for regular. John N701HW - reserved. One hotel whiskey....please ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Ruddiman" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:55 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > > > I pumped gas when I was a kid in High School for 23.9 a gallon. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zed Smith" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:39 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: More Gas..... > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith >> >> List, >> >> Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next >> month.....however, >> >> Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"? >> >> Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good >> old >> American slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed >> when two or more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each >> other) got into a spitting contest (cleaned-up description) about the >> retail price of fuel. >> >> Those were the good old days!! Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s. >> >> do not archive >> >> Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:15 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Todd, I'll try to address your comments and issues, then attempt to stop posting on this subject. I don't think this is really off topic, but it is so rife with political overtones I think it is best avoided. Off list communications are always welcome. . . There are so many issues adding up to high crude oil and distillate prices that there is not one simple answer to the problem. I think the biggest long term issue is the global shortage of crude oil production capacity vs. the global demand. This is not currently obvious because of the current inventories you mentioned. Still, the demand tends to suck up all the supply over long periods of time and has done so for several years. There are many short term issues making this situation worse. One is the political problems in several oil producing countries including Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, and Venezuela. Any time one of these places makes oil related news (meaning nearly every day) the people who buy crude oil for refining into gasoline and other marketable stuff hurry up and buy up their needs in the futures markets causing the prices to go up. One new factor in the oil price equation is new interest in financial markets. Particularly, there are new funds and other trading media that allow people to invest( gamble?) money on the idea that oil and gas prices will continue to go up. There are so many investors piling so much money into these new funds that the price of oil is pushed up. Another big contributor to this problem is the US balance of trade. We buy so much more goods than we sell to foreigners that the only possible reaction is for the US dollar to become weaker. Combine this with the fact that crude oil is priced everywhere in US dollars and you discover that the price must go up. Something like 1/3 of all US imports each year is crude oil. So we wind up trading ever weakening dollars for the crude. I expect this to get even worse since some of our fine politicians object to foreigners buying US assets with the dollars they got for the oil. The net result could be a reluctance for foreigners to accept those unusable dollars in the future - leading to even higher oil prices. Add to this the fact that our government spends trillions of dollars more than it receives in taxes and you get even more pressure to weaken the dollar and increase oil prices. I agree with you that refining capacity is an issue in the USA. This was highlighted when storms took out a significant portion of our refining capacity last year. On top of that, we can't just build more refineries. That takes many years and must overcome the NIMBY problem (Not In My Back Yard) which causes any proposal for a new refinery to face many years of political objections from the local population where it is proposed. I wish there were something Bush, Chaney, or any other government leaders could do about all this. I am afraid anything they do just makes things worse. Bush is currently pushing alternative fuels with great gusto. Alas, while this might relieve some of the pressure on oil consumption it will also increase the prices we all pay for fuel rather than reducing the average prices. I suppose we could drill in ANWAR but the Greenies go ballistic anytime that is proposed. It seems they are more worried about a few wild animals than prices at the gas pumps. The bottom line for those of us who want to fly around in planes is to keep our planes small and fuel consumption limited. I am afraid we will not see significantly lower fuel prices in our lifetimes. I have heard proposals for boycotts of the big oil companies before. I don't support such activities as I feel they just won't work. So long as people are willing to pay for fuel the companies will provide it. If we really want to take action to reduce fuel prices we must actually reduce fuel consumption. Tell that to the mothers whose kids want after school activities or the people who commute to work. Paul XL wings do not archive >Paul, I agree with you in part. The retailers (with the exception of company >stores) are not to blame. You mentioned the producers. Here is where I begin >to take exception. It is my understanding that there is an abundance of >crude currently available to the global market, and that the real problem >influencing the market is refinery capacity. George Bush, Dick Chaney and >company recognize the situation, but in reality, does anyone really believe >they will do anything postive with it? Should they do anything? ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:16 AM PST US From: "tinerj2005@tinerj.com" Subject: Zenith-List: wing spar insert to center wing section --> Zenith-List message posted by: "tinerj2005@tinerj.com" Building 601xl. I'm about the drill the holes to fit the wing spar center section to the cabin floor. The photo guide says to insert and bolt the wing spar inserts in the center section. I'm to drill a hole in the insert to match the middle hole in the center section. I've reviewed the plans, the photo guide, and the archives but cannot figure out how far the bolt hole goes in the spar insert. Later, the spar insert will be used to make a jig to locate the distance and angle of the rear frame channel relative to the wing spar so that the attach plates will line up with the wing's rear channel. However, I'm not that far along. My current goal is to get the spar insert at the right distance in the center spar section. Does anyone have the dimension for those holes? My wing spar inserts, 6B13, are perfectly rectangular, 200mm horizontal and 212 vertical. John Hudson Tiner ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:37 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz The firewall included in my kit is made of galvanized steel. Paul XL wings (still . . .) At 09:17 AM 4/25/2006, you wrote: >am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After >viewing the Firewall construction photo section on the Zenith CD, >reading the materials lists,and the aluminum cutting layouts, I >still can't figure out what material is used for the Firewall. I >notice the main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached directly >to the main Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or some >form of steel? If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to >contact with aluminum? --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:01 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" List . . . this is kind of a fun, off-beat topic. Do not archive. I maintain the real cost of gas today is cheaper than in the "good old days". When I was in high school in '52 and had my first Chevy, I paid about $ .30 a gallon. Prices have gone up 6 x since '52 which would make gas $1.80 per gallon today. However, that Chevy only got 12 mpg, and it's not unusual for a car today to get 24 mpg. The current price of gas would have to go up to $3.60 per gallon for the cost per mile driven to be the same as in '52 dollars. Almost everything is about 6x higher including starting salaries out of college. ($5,000 / yr. for me vs. $40,000 now (engineer) so it shouldn't cost a young couple any more to live now than it did then except for one thing, and that is housing. We have "trained" our kids to expect too much. We used to be satisfied with a 1,000 sf. starter ranch with 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, and no family room costing $20,000. Such a home can still be bought for $120,000 (6x) in ordinary areas. (San Francisco and the other big metropolatin areas are not ordinary.) Now our kids wouldn't be caught dead in such a starter house. They expect and buy at least 2 1/2 baths, a big family room, etc.. Hence their house payments are out of sight, and the two of them have to work. And none of them remember how the highest tax bracket in the Eisenhauer years was 90%. End of the trivia for today. As I say, do not archive. Robert Schoenberger 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John" > > You must be a lot older than me. : ) When I pumped gas in high school it > was > 35.9 cents a gallon in 1971. $3.06 today in San Diego for regular. > > John > N701HW - reserved. One hotel whiskey....please > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Ruddiman" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:55 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" >> >> >> I pumped gas when I was a kid in High School for 23.9 a gallon. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Zed Smith" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:39 AM >> Subject: Zenith-List: More Gas..... >> >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith >>> >>> List, >>> >>> Not intending to start a thread which will run into the middle of next >>> month.....however, >>> >>> Does anybody remember the term "Gas War"? >>> >>> Obviously this is a world-wide forum, so for those not attuned to good >>> old >>> American slang, this phrase was applied to the situation which existed >>> when two or more gasoline stations (usually across the road from each >>> other) got into a spitting contest (cleaned-up description) about the >>> retail price of fuel. >>> >>> Those were the good old days!! Lead was in the fuel, not AK-47s. >>> >>> do not archive >>> >>> Zed / about $2.90 per gallon in north Texas today >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:39 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? From: "AZFlyer" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" I have tried numerous methods to flatten and smooth edges on aluminum sheet I've cut. Nothing yet has made them look professional. I take my time cutting to produce minimum ridges and distortion but even after filing and sanding I can not get that pro-look. Somebody out there must know a secret. Please share. What is the trick? Thanks, Mike -------- Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com 601 XL, 3300 Remember: the second mouse gets the cheese! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30627#30627 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:47 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yes...but nobody knows what the trick is....:) 1) First thing to remember is that tin snips will stretch the edge of the sheet if you try to cut too much off at once...So if you imagine a freshly cut edge where the edge is longer than the rest of the sheet then you will have a wavy edge. To stop this, do not cut up to the edge on the first cut, rather stay 1/4 to 3/8ths away from where the finished edge will be on our first cut. Tha second cut you go up to the line and it will not be wavy. 2) Do not cut off the end of the snips....I.e do not close the snips all the way otherwise you get a notch where the tips of the blades come together. 3)Use a fine (ish) file to remove the snip marks 4) Use a red scotchbrite pad to remove the file marks 5) To automate steps 3 and 4 use a medium Scotchbrite wheel mounted in a DECENT (not one that slows down with any pressure) bench grinder...Mine is a 3/4HP arbor Freight PROFESSIONAL model...Bloody marvelous machine. You get the wheel from Van's aircraft for $45 (ya spendy I know)...but now I have one of those I don't know how I built the Zodiac without it! 6) the edge can be rounded (deburred really) slightly with either the wheel or pad. 7) For sheets try bending the edge down slightly with seaming pliers, wheel thingy or happing the edge with a hammer overhangine the edge of your bench by 1/2"...This will hold the edge down tight with the rivets Good luck Frank HDS 295 hours RV7A almost finished -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AZFlyer Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:35 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" I have tried numerous methods to flatten and smooth edges on aluminum sheet I've cut. Nothing yet has made them look professional. I take my time cutting to produce minimum ridges and distortion but even after filing and sanding I can not get that pro-look. Somebody out there must know a secret. Please share. What is the trick? Thanks, Mike -------- Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com 601 XL, 3300 Remember: the second mouse gets the cheese! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30627#30627 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:22 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Firewall From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" Yep, it's galvanized steel. I put some Zinc Chromate between them. lo2u wrote: > I am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After viewing the Firewall construction photo section on the Zenith CD, reading the materials lists,and the aluminum cutting layouts, I still can't figure out what material is used for the Firewall. I notice the main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached directly to the main Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or some form of steel? If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to contact with aluminum? > > Sorry to ask such a basic question but I am trying to plan ahead.. > > Thanks, > > Ron Culver > CH-701 ..scratch from plans ..cutting aluminum at present.. -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30636#30636 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:34 PM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron Gustafson" File then Scotchbrite! >> Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:32 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Hi guys, This subject is not off topic for us builder/fliers if you use the "do not archive" insert. There is much you can do if you decide it's worth the effort. Put an engine in that burns less than 4 gallons per hour, car gas. During the next round of "low gas prices" fill 5 or 6 5-gallon cans of car gas and use a motorcycle to get to and from the airport. I'm still riding my motorcycle on $2.25/gal gas. The much maligned Stratus Subaru gives me a 3.2 gal/hr run at anything near 100 mph and 90% of the time there's no hurry. Further downstream, look carefully at the "plug hybrid cars" that are only a conversion in this country. The Prius is a plug hybrid in Japan, but not here. Good idea if you only drive 30-40 miles each day. You only have to plug in each night at a cost of $2.00. At the prices we're seeing the oil lines are now filling up quickly. I expect prices to stall in a month or two and they'll be coming back down to the next "bottom" of $2.25 to $2.50. Don't think people just keep running till it's gone. The slow down has begun and the product has to flow while other forms of fuel and energy make their presence known. I expect E85 to go up in price within a few cents of gasoline. Remember Diesel? The pipeline isn't large enough for the number of vehicles being sold to use it. Everyone will conserve at anything above $3.00. Those of us who will continue to fly use car-gas at low-fuel flows. We've seen Lycombings in my area down waiting for better prices. The worst is that our local FBO, rental, instruction and training company has folded his tent. I doubt he will be replaced by anyone. Don't expect government to bail you out. If they get involved, we'll have non-stop gas lines here for sure. The five companies are a pool with common representation and transportation for product. Doubt that any boycott would do any good. You'd have to boycott the entire product line. Good luck, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com> > >Yes this subject is off topic, but I don't believe it's going to go away >fast, so here's my 2 cents worth: > > >What can the masses do besides complain? There are five major US companies >in this game, all saying that prices are market driven. Well, we are the >market. There should be a boycott against the largest company. What do you >think would happen if everyone stopped buying all Mobil/Exxon products? I >bet we'd see some real changes - real fast... > >Best Regards, >Todd Henning >West Bend, WI >701stol@gmail.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:00 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Ron, If you're scratch building, I'd recommend you look at .015 stainless as it's more durable and easier to mount structure to than the typical galvanized metal recommended in the plans. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Ron Culver wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" > >I am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After viewing the Firewall construction photo section on the Zenith CD, reading the materials lists,and the aluminum cutting layouts, I still can't figure out what material is used for the Firewall. I notice the main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached directly to the main Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or some form of steel? If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to contact with aluminum? > >Sorry to ask such a basic question but I am trying to plan ahead.. > >Thanks, > >Ron Culver >CH-701 ..scratch from plans ..cutting aluminum at present.. > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:22 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: edge former --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" In response to Mike Miller's question on sheet metal edge treatment and Frank Hinde's response, the "wheel thingy" Frank referred to is an "edge former", available for $39 from Cleaveland Tool (cat. no.EF60). It does a great job and the riveted joints look very professional. You can get a similar result on a straight edged part by letting the part hang over the edge of a worktable by about 1/4 inch and gently tapping the overhanging edge along it's length with a rubber mallet. This takes practice to get a really good looking result and it doesn't work so well on curved parts. I've tried both ways and I recommend the $39 tool. George ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:58 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Firewall From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I would agree...but I think stainless is harder to work, drill etc...than galvnised. Reason I would use SS is that its what Van's uses and everyone knows how superior a Van's aircraft is...:). But seriously, the one problem I found with the galvanised is that if you use the cheesy overflow bottle provided you will eventually get radiator fluid on the firewall....almost ubelievably the glycol strips the galvanising straight off the firewall..then of course it rusts! There is a much better overflow bottle by the way that does not have a hole that glycol can leak out of, usually available at your local autparts store. Frank 601HDS RV7a..almost finished. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:55 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland --> Ron, If you're scratch building, I'd recommend you look at .015 stainless as it's more durable and easier to mount structure to than the typical galvanized metal recommended in the plans. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Ron Culver wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" > >I am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After viewing the Firewall construction photo section on the Zenith CD, reading the materials lists,and the aluminum cutting layouts, I still can't figure out what material is used for the Firewall. I notice the main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached directly to the main Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or some form of steel? If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to contact with aluminum? > >Sorry to ask such a basic question but I am trying to plan ahead.. > >Thanks, > >Ron Culver >CH-701 ..scratch from plans ..cutting aluminum at present.. > > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:30 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Mike, Cut your aluminum half an inch away from the cut line. Then cut to within 1/16 inch of the cut line. Make your cut line with a good ink marker and a good straight edge or piece of new 2" aluminum angle. Make the final trim at the near edge of your ink mark with Weiss hand shears taking short easy bites that don't stretch the metal. Then move the final cut edge on your table so the edge is only a quarter overhanging. Sight down the edge and file the edge lightly to straighten and debur. Take your time, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com AZFlyer wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" > >I have tried numerous methods to flatten and smooth edges on aluminum sheet I've cut. Nothing yet has made them look professional. I take my time cutting to produce minimum ridges and distortion but even after filing and sanding I can not get that pro-look. > >Somebody out there must know a secret. Please share. What is the trick? > >Thanks, >Mike > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 4/25/06 11:48 AM, CH701 at 701stol@gmail.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com> > > Yes this subject is off topic, but I don't believe it's going to go away > fast, so here's my 2 cents worth: > >... > > What can the masses do besides complain? There are five major US companies > in this game, all saying that prices are market driven. Well, we are the > market. There should be a boycott against the largest company. What do you > think would happen if everyone stopped buying all Mobil/Exxon products? I > bet we'd see some real changes - real fast... > > Best Regards, > Todd Henning > West Bend, WI > 701stol@gmail.com > Exxon-Mobil would then just sell their product to other distributors and their local retailers would suffer. It wouldn't do any harm to the parent corporation at all since you'd end up buying their oil from other companies anyway. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:45 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: edge former From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" That's what I said...the wheel thingy...:) Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Swinford Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:50 PM Subject: Zenith-List: edge former --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" --> In response to Mike Miller's question on sheet metal edge treatment and Frank Hinde's response, the "wheel thingy" Frank referred to is an "edge former", available for $39 from Cleaveland Tool (cat. no.EF60). It does a great job and the riveted joints look very professional. You can get a similar result on a straight edged part by letting the part hang over the edge of a worktable by about 1/4 inch and gently tapping the overhanging edge along it's length with a rubber mallet. This takes practice to get a really good looking result and it doesn't work so well on curved parts. I've tried both ways and I recommend the $39 tool. George ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:19 PM PST US From: Terry Turnquist Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A5 Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Turnquist I'll take a thou. if you order them.. Terry Turnquist Randy Bryant wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Thanks Robert, I checked Wick's, their price is $0.11 each for the 5/16" Avex (A5) rivets... When Crawford had them, they were selling them $46.00 per thousand and $22.00 per thousand for the A4's... I ordered 4000 of the A4's from them today... After doing the math, I think I'd be better off buying the minimum order of 8000 of the A5's from Crawford, at $368.00 and maybe trying to resale what I have left over... The A5's is where I'm really struggling right now, as I'm fresh out of em'! and I need them before I can proceed with my wings... Thanks! Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT SCEPPA" Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A5 Rivets > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA > >> Hi Randy, have you tried Wicks Aircraft? I am in a >> Glastar project and we did order some from there. >> Bob S. > > --- Randy Bryant wrote: > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" >> >> >> I contacted Crawford Products today to order some A5 >> rivets (1604-0514) and found out the don't stock >> these anymore... They offered to special order some >> for me but the minimum order was 8000. >> >> Does anyone have another "cheap" contact for rivets >> for the 601XL? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Randy Bryant >> N344RB >> >> >> >> >> >> browse >> Subscriptions page, >> FAQ, >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List >> >> >> Admin. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:46 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Firewall From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" Thank God the Corvair engine I'm installing doesn't need an overflow bottle. :P frank.hinde(at)hp.com wrote: > > But seriously, the one problem I found with the galvanised is that if > you use the cheesy overflow bottle provided you will eventually get > radiator fluid on the firewall > -- DO NOT ARCHIVE -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30666#30666 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: More Gas..... From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" The gasoline supply chain is WAY to complex for that to work. Let's look and El Dorado Arkansas. Population 22,000. We have a refinery here. Lion Oil. We have gas stations sporting pretty much all the major oil company names. With only one exception that I know of. Every drop of gasoline in each one of those stations comes from the same rack at the Lion Oil Refinery. Each "Brand" has some additives that are specific to them but it is the same gas. -------- W.R. Gig Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30672#30672 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:56 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Firewall Cc: Gig Giacona --> Zenith-List message posted by: Nor the Jabiru 3300 I'm going to install, Ed Do Not Archive ---- Gig Giacona wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" > > Thank God the Corvair engine I'm installing doesn't need an overflow bottle. :P > > > > frank.hinde(at)hp.com wrote: > > > > But seriously, the one problem I found with the galvanised is that if > > you use the cheesy overflow bottle provided you will eventually get > > radiator fluid on the firewall > > -- > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > -------- > W.R. Gig Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30666#30666 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:56 PM PST US From: "Ron Culver" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" Thanks guys.Very helpful as usual. Where would be the best source of Stainless or of Galvanized and is 0.015 standard for either or both.. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:12 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Firewall > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > I would agree...but I think stainless is harder to work, drill > etc...than galvnised. > > Reason I would use SS is that its what Van's uses and everyone knows how > superior a Van's aircraft is...:). > > But seriously, the one problem I found with the galvanised is that if > you use the cheesy overflow bottle provided you will eventually get > radiator fluid on the firewall....almost ubelievably the glycol strips > the galvanising straight off the firewall..then of course it rusts! > > There is a much better overflow bottle by the way that does not have a > hole that glycol can leak out of, usually available at your local > autparts store. > > Frank > 601HDS > RV7a..almost finished. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > LarryMcFarland > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:55 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > --> > > Ron, > If you're scratch building, I'd recommend you look at .015 stainless > as it's more durable and easier to mount structure to than the typical > galvanized metal recommended in the plans. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive > > Ron Culver wrote: > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" >> >>I am doing a scratch build and have been cutting aluminum. After > viewing the Firewall construction photo section on the Zenith CD, > reading the materials lists,and the aluminum cutting layouts, I still > can't figure out what material is used for the Firewall. I notice the > main "spar" is aluminum and see it is attached directly to the main > Firewall.. but is the Firewall made of aluminum or some form of steel? > If steel how is it protected from corrosion due to contact with > aluminum? >> >>Sorry to ask such a basic question but I am trying to plan ahead.. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Ron Culver >>CH-701 ..scratch from plans ..cutting aluminum at present.. >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:13 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" I try to avoid using snips when possible, preferring the method taught to me by David Barth of CanZac aviation. It gives you a straight edge that looks like it has been cut with a shear. Read about it at http://www.ch601.org/tools/olfa.htm -------- CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - awaiting kit Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30677#30677 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:45 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More Gas..... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com Trying to decide if I should build a still,grow some corn ,and run my 701 on ethanol? Or go with a bio-diesel engine. any suggestions? please do not archive. I'm not serious. :) ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:19 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves The stainless will be lighter.. But If you decide to go with galvanized sheet. 29 guage thickness is what you should ask for. I got mine from a local coragated metal supply house. $4.00 for a 40in x 40in square... They take huge coils of sheet and form them into corrigated roofing..... and snipped me off an end..... Metal roofing supply house in the yellow pages... A heating and cooling duct work shop may also have some of the thinner 29 guage sheet, Although its likely thinner than they use for standard duct work. BTW if you find a local Metal roofing supply house that makes their corrigated roofing in the shop. They will also most likely have a HUGE sheet brake with the proper radius for bending the .040 longerons as well. They charged $5.00 to bend my 701 longerons the same day I picked up my firewall sheet. Monty At 05:43 PM 4/25/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" > >Thanks guys.Very helpful as usual. Where would be the best source of >Stainless or of Galvanized and is 0.015 standard for either or both.. >Ron ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:05 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Gas?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" All- Seems that gas prices are on everyone's mind Remember, this all started with Gary and me talking offline, or so we thought. The intention of my last post was to back up Gary's contention that, hey, I thought I clicked on a direct link rather than the list link. Matt, any posibility that there might be a gremlin at work? GREMLIN- a fictional being created in WWII by maintenance crewman for the purpose of justifying inexplicable mechanical malfunctions. Bill ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:00 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Zenith-List: New to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" Builders/Inteneters I just yesterday found out about this list so joined. I am building a ZodiacCH601XL, my first all metal airplane. I have in the past built the KR-1 and the KR-2 both are composite. I was a member of the KRNet which is the same as this one, that is a medium where builders of the same aircraft can exchange ideas, solve problems, receive advice from seasoned metal aircraft builders, etc. This airplane will have a training wheel up front, (I am not qualified in tail draggers) I will use the Jabiru 3300 engine and since it will be built to be a sport aircraft I will not have any IFR instruments. I would like to know if there are any builders or owners of completed Zodiac XL aircraft in my area. I am in central Texas. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:01 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Re: Zenith-List: holes, drill bits, reamers and bolts --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Just a clarification: I am not quite sure I have a problem. I was just surprised that both, the reamer hole and the regular (not reamed) hole are both 0.375" (give or take 0.001" due to measurement error). I was expecting the non-reamed hole to be larger... Thanks much for all the replies Carlos Lche-vitrine ou lche-cran ? magasinage.yahoo.ca ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:47 PM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" Mike . . try a Jillson snipper. No rough edges. Robert Schoenberger 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "AZFlyer" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:35 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" > > I have tried numerous methods to flatten and smooth edges on aluminum > sheet I've cut. Nothing yet has made them look professional. I take my > time cutting to produce minimum ridges and distortion but even after > filing and sanding I can not get that pro-look. > > Somebody out there must know a secret. Please share. What is the trick? > > Thanks, > Mike > > -------- > Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com > 601 XL, 3300 > > Remember: the second mouse gets the cheese! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30627#30627 > > > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:48 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: New to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" Take a look at this map. http://www.frappr.com/zenith601 Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stone Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:32 PM Subject: Zenith-List: New to the list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert L. Stone" Builders/Inteneters I just yesterday found out about this list so joined. I am building a ZodiacCH601XL, my first all metal airplane. I have in the past built the KR-1 and the KR-2 both are composite. I was a member of the KRNet which is the same as this one, that is a medium where builders of the same aircraft can exchange ideas, solve problems, receive advice from seasoned metal aircraft builders, etc. This airplane will have a training wheel up front, (I am not qualified in tail draggers) I will use the Jabiru 3300 engine and since it will be built to be a sport aircraft I will not have any IFR instruments. I would like to know if there are any builders or owners of completed Zodiac XL aircraft in my area. I am in central Texas. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:43 PM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A5 Rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" I'll keep you in mind if I decide to order the 8000... Today I ordered 1000 from Aircraft Spruce at $56.00/thousand, just to get me started on my wings in a few days... Thanks, Randy N344RB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Turnquist" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:09 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A5 Rivets > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Turnquist > > I'll take a thou. if you order them.. > > Terry Turnquist > > > Randy Bryant wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" > > Thanks Robert, > > I checked Wick's, their price is $0.11 each for the 5/16" Avex (A5) > rivets... > > When Crawford had them, they were selling them $46.00 per thousand and > $22.00 per thousand for the A4's... I ordered 4000 of the A4's from them > today... After doing the math, I think I'd be better off buying the > minimum > order of 8000 of the A5's from Crawford, at $368.00 and maybe trying to > resale what I have left over... The A5's is where I'm really struggling > right now, as I'm fresh out of em'! and I need them before I can proceed > with my wings... > > Thanks! > > Randy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ROBERT SCEPPA" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:25 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A5 Rivets > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA >> >>> Hi Randy, have you tried Wicks Aircraft? I am in a >>> Glastar project and we did order some from there. >>> Bob S. >> >> --- Randy Bryant wrote: >> >>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" >>> >>> >>> I contacted Crawford Products today to order some A5 >>> rivets (1604-0514) and found out the don't stock >>> these anymore... They offered to special order some >>> for me but the minimum order was 8000. >>> >>> Does anyone have another "cheap" contact for rivets >>> for the 601XL? >>> >>> Thanks in advance, >>> >>> Randy Bryant >>> N344RB >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> browse >>> Subscriptions page, >>> FAQ, >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List >>> >>> >>> Admin. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > --------------------------------- > > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:28 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Is there a trick to cleaning up a new cut aluminum edge? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell I used a knife sharpner. The plastic kind with the v-notch. About 3 passes and the edge is smooth and beveled. Jack in los osos ca. Hope to fly friday. Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:55 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 CG calculations From: "Chris Harding" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Harding" Many thanks to everyone for their assistance. I think I may well go with Chuck's (more conservative) figures for fuel and pilot/pax until I can do the same as him and weigh the airplane with and without me and fuel in it. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30732#30732 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:35 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair > Matt, any posibility that there might be a gremlin at work? > GREMLIN- a fictional being created in WWII by maintenance crewman for the purpose of justifying inexplicable mechanical malfunctions. > Bill GREMLIN- also a car built by AMC that served me very well on not a whole lot of gas with no problems for quite a few years. No matter what some may have thought of the looks. But probably a big part of the miserliness that allowed me to afford my play toys. Mike Sinclair w/ a 701 & 912uls that really is working great on the small amount of fuel it consumes. Small being relative, just thinking of how much gas the Lycoming in that Cessna was sucking down! And that amount is small compared to a lot of aircraft out there. So it takes me a little longer to get there, I enjoy the scenery! Do Not Archive