Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:45 AM - Re: HDS Wing Locker problem (Peter Barthold)
2. 02:02 AM - Re: 701 Dual stick mod (Jari Kaija)
3. 02:56 AM - Re: Yet another wing locker question. (Peter Barthold)
4. 04:27 AM - Water based paint (Bob Gibfried)
5. 06:55 AM - Vortex Generators for CH601HDS - Again (Leo Gates)
6. 06:55 AM - Re: Scotch Brite Pads.. (Mike Fothergill)
7. 08:06 AM - Re:Scratch Building XL Wing Spars (Dave and Jan Clay)
8. 08:46 AM - Re: Re:Scratch Building XL Wing Spars (N5SL)
9. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: 701 Dual stick mod (george may)
10. 08:52 AM - Fw: Re: Scotchbrite (Chuck Deiterich)
11. 09:40 AM - 912 water temp probe? (Zed Smith)
12. 09:49 AM - Re: 701 Dual stick mod (N601RT)
13. 11:29 AM - Re: Re: 701 Dual stick mod (John Marzulli)
14. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: 701 Dual stick mod (Michael Valentine)
15. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: 701 Dual stick mod (John Marzulli)
16. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: 701 Dual stick mod (Craig Payne)
17. 02:13 PM - Re: 912 water temp probe? (cgalley)
18. 02:48 PM - Re: 912 water temp probe? (Thilo Kind)
19. 03:15 PM - Re: Re: Scotchbrite (Ron Culver)
20. 04:13 PM - Re: 912 water temp probe? Discussion welcome (Fritz Gurschick)
21. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Scotchbrite (Chuck Deiterich)
22. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: 701 Dual stick mod (JohnDRead@aol.com)
23. 05:19 PM - Re: Re: Yet another wing locker question. (Bill Naumuk)
24. 05:52 PM - Re: Re: 701 Dual stick mod (Bill Naumuk)
25. 07:10 PM - Re: Wing Tip Coordinates - 601 (Gary Briggs)
26. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: 701 Dual stick mod (Mike Sinclair)
27. 08:24 PM - Re: 912 water temp probe? Discussion welcome (Dave)
28. 08:48 PM - Re: Dual Ignition toggle, 912 shaking at shut down. (Gary Gower)
29. 09:14 PM - E-LSA Airworthiness Certificate in the USA. (Paul Mulwitz)
30. 09:25 PM - Re: Zenith History (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: HDS Wing Locker problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Barthold" <peter.barthold@t-online.de>
Hello Listers,
Thank you all for sharing your wisdom with me! It really helped me out. I think
I'll opt for the Corform plastic cardboard stuff to distribute loads and some
lid boxes for the smaller items.
It is amazing: you stand all alone in your remote little workshop, scratching
your head about a problem no one in the vincinity of 100 miles would even understand.
So you switch on your PC and soon a whole bunch of nice guys who've been-there-done-that
peek over your shoulder and give you some hints. As I said:
amazing!
I will try to give my 2Cents back in the future. And Thanks Mat for this forum,
the e-mail list was already brilliant but this here makes it even more fast and
easy.
Greetings from Germany
Peter Barthold
HDS TD VW conv.
Tailkit complete, wing kit in progress
www.petersprojekt42.de
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32933#32933
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi>
> it to the site. Jari's tone was a bit off from his usual postings but I
> will just add that to a frustrating day he had and he may have just
> vented in the wrong direction instead of suggesting to send the
Yep. Something like that. Had too much phone calls to
solve couple problem with plane. I apologize my behavior.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Yet another wing locker question. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Barthold" <peter.barthold@t-online.de>
Hello Allen,
as you see from the other thread I'm nowhere near finished. But not long ago I
had the same question as you. Yes it is more complicated to build, yes you may
have (solvable) problems like locker door bulging in flight. However, I asked
Viktor Strausak, a former military pilot and Swissair Captain. Located in Switzerland,
he built the most perfect 601 I've ever seen and flies it all around
the continent. He gave me a demo ride at a local fly in. The HDS was still packed
with their camping gear. All Lockers stuffed up and with almost full long
range tanks we were only few kilos below full gross. With its 80hp Rotax it was
certainly not a rocket any more but as agile as a plane can be. Viktor dropped
a wing and turned her "on a beer coaster" with no effort. He said, "You need
the wing lockers!" And indeed, I would cut down the plane in a strength where
it is hard to beat: its hauling capacity. See previous post for numbers. I
am not aware of a Rotax 2 seater (other than Heintz design) that has legally more
loading capacity.
That's why I will build wing lockers. Some day I'll be glad to have them. For what
it's worth (0.02$?)
Greetings from Germany
Peter Barthold
HDS TD VW conv.
Tailkit complete, wing kit in progress
www.petersprojekt42.de
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32937#32937
Message 4
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| Subject: | Water based paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Gibfried" <rfg842@cox.net>
Had an interesting conversation with Mike, a retired paint chemist who's =
now
working for Sherwin Williams. Retired after some thirty years with Cessn=
a.=0D
=0D
Said with the advancements in water based paint, only difference with
solvent paints is the gloss and if you put on a coat of clear coat, you w=
on
t be able to tell the difference. Said that Cessna is now using water ba=
sed
paint for the interior of Citations. Advantage is way less fog and over
spray. No big environmental suits for the painters in a confined area. =
=0D
=0D
Reported that most painters prefer the solvent based paints because they =
get
the gloss without the added work load of an extra coat or two of clear co=
at.
=0D
=0D
May be something to consider.=0D
=0D
Bob, Wichita
Message 5
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| Subject: | Vortex Generators for CH601HDS - Again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com>
List,
I read Michael Mossman's article, Stall Reduction in the 601 HDS, in
Zenair News, issue #153, March/April 2006, with interest. I noted he
had no before and after comparison figures, as he put on Vortex
Generators (VGs) prior to flying his plane. He also gave no TAS figures,
only IAS.
N601Z is unpainted so I figured she was an excellent candidate for some
experimentation. N601Z, without VGs, flies much as Michael described
the flight performance of his plane, with VGs.
I washed N601Z and re-test flew her to verify lift-off, climb, cruise,
low speed handling and stall. I made GS from .025, as per Michael's
article and glued them on.
Flight test report:
Lift-off - no change
Climb - no change
Cruise - no change
Low speed handling - no change
Stall speed - no change :-(
I sent the following to Zenith: "I need an informed suggestion. Do I
start moving the VGs back and forward to see if I get any positive
results or is this a waste of time?"
Nicolas Hines replied: "I have forwarded you e-mail to Chris..."
When I get a reply I will post it here.
Leo Gates
N601Z CH601HDS TDO
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Scotch Brite Pads.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi;
My painter used the grey ones on the advise of a pro.
Mike
UHS Spinners
CH-601HDS
Ron Culver wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>
> I want to buy some Scotch Brite pads. I have tracked it down to these.
>
>
> 3M 7447 (maroon)
> 3M 7448 (grey)
>
> They are silicon based one coarser the other finer.Based on your experience
> are these the best for aluminum? If not what do you recommend?
>
> Ron Culver
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re:Scratch Building XL Wing Spars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
I have the same problem. It seems like the wing spars just magically appear
on all the scratch builder websites. Sure would be nice to see some photos
of actual spar construction.
Dave
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re:Scratch Building XL Wing Spars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Mine magically appeared in October of 2003. They
appeared with a weird shade of green paint.
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_5_03_Wingspars.JPG
Scott Laughlin
601XL / Corvair
do not archive
--- Dave and Jan Clay <dclaytx2@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have the same problem. It seems like the wing
> spars just magically appear
> on all the scratch builder websites.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
Bill-
I have over 400 hours of flying dual stick arrangements, with both left and
right
hand throttle arrangements. On my 601xl I opted for the center stick due to
ease of entry and egress. I've watched a number of passengers really
struggle in
trying to position themselves around a stick.
From the pilot's perspective, you can get use to any arrangement with a
little
practice.
George May
601xl 912s
>From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Dual stick mod
>Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 19:02:28 -0400
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 4:30 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Dual stick mod
>All-
> How do strings get so far off topic, people?
> I'm right at the point where I have to decide whether to go with
>single
>or dual sticks myself, and none of the list entries have addressed what I
>consider to be the important questions. I've flown all my life with a yoke,
>and don't know s_it from shinola about the "Feel" of flying with a stick: I
>have both the factory supplied Y stick and plans for duals. The question
>is,
>which way to go based on experience?
> From a design standpoint, the factory Y stick seems to have been
>adopted
>for occupant comfort and economy of construction. On the other hand, dual
>sticks might have an operational advantage.
> How about input from the high time flyers out there? What are your
>comments as far as ergonomics versus the cost of fabricating other than
>factory supplied parts and specially designed seats to provide clearance
>for
>the sticks?
> Appreciate your input.
>
> Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
Do not use silicon carbide based Scotchbrite on aluminum.
Below is a note I sent a while back.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
> To really get the story straight, I asked 3M about ScotchBrite, their
> answer:
>
> The green Scotchbrite (#74)contains approximately aluminum oxide mineral
> (220x to 320x) that is resin bonded to the nylon fibers. It will cut most
> surfaces including aluminum.
>
> Other Scotchbrite
>
> S ULF, S VLF and S MED use silicon carbide, the others use aluminum oxide.
>
> Light Duty Cleansing Pad 7445 048011-16976-7 - white -
> Ultra-Fine Hand Pad 7448 048011-04028-8 - gray S ULF
> General Purpose Hand Pad 7447 048011-04029-5 - maroon A VFN
> Production Hand Pad 8447 048011-24037-4 - maroon A VFN
> Blending Hand Pad 7446 048011-04051-6 - gray S MED
> Heavy Duty Hand Pad 7440 048011-04050-9 - tan A MED
> Multi-Flex Abrasive Sheet 051131-07521-4 - dark maroon A VFN
> 051131-07522-1 - gray S ULF
> 051131-07523-8 - gold A ULF
> Wood Finishing Roll 7745 051131-07745-4 - gold -
> Clean & Finish Roll 048011-00264-4 - maroon A MED
> 048011-00265-1 - maroon A FIN
> 048011-00266-8 - maroon A VFN
> 048011-00270-5 - gray S VFN
> 048011-00274-3 - maroon A MED
> 048011-00275-0 - maroon A FIN
> 048011-00276-7 - maroon A VFN
> Scrubbing Sponge 74 048011-20688-7 - green - -
>
> Chuck D.
> N701TX
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | 912 water temp probe? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
List,
Anyone installed an actual 'water temperature' sender on a 912 in the water circuit?
The two holes provided by Rotax for the CHT on cylinders 2 & 3 don't actually touch
water.
Any advice from experienced 912 jocks?
Thanks!
Regards to all,
Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc/do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "N601RT" <N601RT@comcast.net>
I'm very happy with the Y stick in N601RT. I find it very natural to fly with.
It is easy to fly with "cross handed" if needed. I believe it would be safer in
a crash than having something extra between your legs. I also agree that it
makes getting in and out of the plane easier.
Note that I am no longer using royt.or at netzero dot com My new email is N601RT
at comcast dot net
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
510hrs, 622 landings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33015#33015
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli@gmail.com>
Having flown yokes and a stick ( tandem ) I have to say I prefer the stick
during flight. Entry/egress is just a little trickier, but you gain so much
room from a stick.
On 5/5/06, george may <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
>
> Bill-
> I have over 400 hours of flying dual stick arrangements, with both left
> and
> right
> hand throttle arrangements. On my 601xl I opted for the center stick due
> to
> ease of entry and egress. I've watched a number of passengers really
> struggle in
> trying to position themselves around a stick.
> From the pilot's perspective, you can get use to any arrangement with =
a
> little
> practice.
>
> George May
> 601xl 912s
>
>
> >From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
> >To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Dual stick mod
> >Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 19:02:28 -0400
> >
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Geoff Heap" <stol10@comcast.net>
> >To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 4:30 PM
> >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Dual stick mod
> >All-
> > How do strings get so far off topic, people?
> > I'm right at the point where I have to decide whether to go with
> >single
> >or dual sticks myself, and none of the list entries have addressed what =
I
> >consider to be the important questions. I've flown all my life with a
> yoke,
> >and don't know s_it from shinola about the "Feel" of flying with a stick=
:
> I
> >have both the factory supplied Y stick and plans for duals. The question
> >is,
> >which way to go based on experience?
> > From a design standpoint, the factory Y stick seems to have been
> >adopted
> >for occupant comfort and economy of construction. On the other hand, dua=
l
> >sticks might have an operational advantage.
> > How about input from the high time flyers out there? What are your
> >comments as far as ergonomics versus the cost of fabricating other than
> >factory supplied parts and specially designed seats to provide clearance
> >for
> >the sticks?
> > Appreciate your input.
> >
> > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE=
!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
I have been wondering the same thing as many other posters. While I
appreciate all the responses, the seem to come from the pilot's perspective=
.
So, do the passenger's prefer single or dual? On entry it seems more
difficult to have dual. What about in flight - is it awkward for the
passenger to avoid bumping the stick? What about when they twist and turn
to stay comfortable on a longer flight!?
Thanks all, Michael
On 5/5/06, John Marzulli <john.marzulli@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Marzulli" <
> john.marzulli@gmail.com>
>
> Having flown yokes and a stick ( tandem ) I have to say I prefer the stic=
k
> during flight. Entry/egress is just a little trickier, but you gain so
> much
> room from a stick.
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Marzulli" <john.marzulli@gmail.com>
The first time I ever flew in the right seat as a passenger I was amazed at
how hard it was to avoid the yoke when the pilot pulled back.
On 5/5/06, Michael Valentine <mgvalentine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" <
> mgvalentine@gmail.com>
>
> I have been wondering the same thing as many other posters. While I
> appreciate all the responses, the seem to come from the pilot's
> perspective=3D
> .
>
> So, do the passenger's prefer single or dual? On entry it seems more
> difficult to have dual. What about in flight - is it awkward for the
> passenger to avoid bumping the stick? What about when they twist and tur=
n
> to stay comfortable on a longer flight!?
>
> Thanks all, Michael
>
> On 5/5/06, John Marzulli <john.marzulli@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Marzulli" <
> > john.marzulli@gmail.com>
> >
> > Having flown yokes and a stick ( tandem ) I have to say I prefer the
> stic=3D
> k
> > during flight. Entry/egress is just a little trickier, but you gain so
> > much
> > room from a stick.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Some have modified the right-side stick to make the handle removable.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Marzulli
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Dual stick mod
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Marzulli"
--> <john.marzulli@gmail.com>
The first time I ever flew in the right seat as a passenger I was amazed at
how hard it was to avoid the yoke when the pilot pulled back.
On 5/5/06, Michael Valentine <mgvalentine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" <
> mgvalentine@gmail.com>
>
> I have been wondering the same thing as many other posters. While I
> appreciate all the responses, the seem to come from the pilot's
> perspective=3D .
>
> So, do the passenger's prefer single or dual? On entry it seems more
> difficult to have dual. What about in flight - is it awkward for the
> passenger to avoid bumping the stick? What about when they twist and
> tur=
n
> to stay comfortable on a longer flight!?
>
> Thanks all, Michael
>
> On 5/5/06, John Marzulli <john.marzulli@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Marzulli" <
> > john.marzulli@gmail.com>
> >
> > Having flown yokes and a stick ( tandem ) I have to say I prefer the
> stic=3D
> k
> > during flight. Entry/egress is just a little trickier, but you gain
> > so much room from a stick.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 912 water temp probe? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
The fact that there are not thru holes will not influence the temperature by
much if any. The big thing is that they won't leak when the probe fails.
Nor will the coolant corrode the probe.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: 912 water temp probe?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
> List,
>
> Anyone installed an actual 'water temperature' sender on a 912 in the
> water circuit?
> The two holes provided by Rotax for the CHT on cylinders 2 & 3 don't
> actually touch water.
>
> Any advice from experienced 912 jocks?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc/do not archive
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912 water temp probe? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Zed,
I have installed a water temp probe. In my CH601 HDS, I'm using an original
Rotax rad inside the cowling. Most of the plumbing is made from rubber
hoses, but one section is 2'' AL piping. On this section I had a small tube
welded on, at which end the probe is installed. Working okay so far (since 4
years). However, it's not really needed, since the CHT probes are
sufficient.
Best regards
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zed Smith" <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 6:31 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 912 water temp probe?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
>
> List,
>
> Anyone installed an actual 'water temperature' sender on a 912 in the
water circuit?
> The two holes provided by Rotax for the CHT on cylinders 2 & 3 don't
actually touch water.
>
> Any advice from experienced 912 jocks?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc/do not archive
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Scotchbrite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>From your post it appears only the maroon 7447 is safe but why then are most
recommending the greay 7448 for finish? It is rated ultrafine but your post
says it is silcon carbide...very confusing ..also several people have been
advised that the grey is the only one to use.I am really confused now
arrgh.. I guess I will have to contact 3M directly... Thanks for the
information I would have possibly made a bad mistake..
Ron Culver 701 still cutting metal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Fw: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
>
> Do not use silicon carbide based Scotchbrite on aluminum.
> Below is a note I sent a while back.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
>
>
>> To really get the story straight, I asked 3M about ScotchBrite, their
>> answer:
>>
>> The green Scotchbrite (#74)contains approximately aluminum oxide mineral
>> (220x to 320x) that is resin bonded to the nylon fibers. It will cut
>> most
>> surfaces including aluminum.
>>
>> Other Scotchbrite
>>
>> S ULF, S VLF and S MED use silicon carbide, the others use aluminum
>> oxide.
>>
>> Light Duty Cleansing Pad 7445 048011-16976-7 - white -
>> Ultra-Fine Hand Pad 7448 048011-04028-8 - gray S ULF
>> General Purpose Hand Pad 7447 048011-04029-5 - maroon A VFN
>> Production Hand Pad 8447 048011-24037-4 - maroon A VFN
>> Blending Hand Pad 7446 048011-04051-6 - gray S MED
>> Heavy Duty Hand Pad 7440 048011-04050-9 - tan A MED
>> Multi-Flex Abrasive Sheet 051131-07521-4 - dark maroon A VFN
>> 051131-07522-1 - gray S ULF
>> 051131-07523-8 - gold A ULF
>> Wood Finishing Roll 7745 051131-07745-4 - gold -
>> Clean & Finish Roll 048011-00264-4 - maroon A MED
>> 048011-00265-1 - maroon A FIN
>> 048011-00266-8 - maroon A VFN
>> 048011-00270-5 - gray S VFN
>> 048011-00274-3 - maroon A MED
>> 048011-00275-0 - maroon A FIN
>> 048011-00276-7 - maroon A VFN
>> Scrubbing Sponge 74 048011-20688-7 - green - -
>>
>> Chuck D.
>> N701TX
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 912 water temp probe? Discussion welcome |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
List---- just a thought, and welcome the feedback (I'll be using a Corvair engine
on my XL, so just wondering)
Thilo says, " it's not really needed".
I realize that "experimental" and "standard" category are not one and the same.
However some "inspectors" seem to overlap the regulations when doing an airworthiness
inspection. I know when they inspected my 701 (liqiud cooled) they
wanted "certain" gauges.
FAR 91.205 Standard Category, Instrument and Equipment Requirements states:
Temperature gauge for each liquid cooled engine. Are you folks under the understanding
that the CHT can replace a water temp gauge ? I, personally, would
not have flown my liquid cooled engine without a "water temp" gauge even though
I had both CHT and EGT gauges. (please note: seat belt requirements are
listed here also)
Fritz
Thilo Kind <thilo.kind@gmx.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind"
Hi Zed,
I have installed a water temp probe. In my CH601 HDS, I'm using an original
Rotax rad inside the cowling. Most of the plumbing is made from rubber
hoses, but one section is 2'' AL piping. On this section I had a small tube
welded on, at which end the probe is installed. Working okay so far (since 4
years). However, it's not really needed, since the CHT probes are
sufficient.
Best regards
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zed Smith"
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 6:31 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 912 water temp probe?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith
>
> List,
>
> Anyone installed an actual 'water temperature' sender on a 912 in the
water circuit?
> The two holes provided by Rotax for the CHT on cylinders 2 & 3 don't
actually touch water.
>
> Any advice from experienced 912 jocks?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc/do not archive
>
>
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Scotchbrite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
Silicon carbide can cause corrosion of the aluminum.
Chuck D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" <rculver@nycap.rr.com>
>
> >From your post it appears only the maroon 7447 is safe but why then are
most
> recommending the greay 7448 for finish? It is rated ultrafine but your
post
> says it is silcon carbide...very confusing ..also several people have been
> advised that the grey is the only one to use.I am really confused now
> arrgh.. I guess I will have to contact 3M directly... Thanks for the
> information I would have possibly made a bad mistake..
>
> Ron Culver 701 still cutting metal
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JohnDRead@aol.com
Hello All:
I fly gliders which generally have a joy stick which is a natural
feel (i.e. lean and the glider turns). I flew the factory 701 recently. I
was skeptical about the center yoke but when flying the plane it feels like a
side stick ala Cirrus. The 701 is very responsive, it to is a lean and turn
plane.
Regards, John Read. Rudder complete kit coming in July
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Yet another wing locker question. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Barthold" <peter.barthold@t-online.de>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 5:49 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Yet another wing locker question.
All-
This is what I love most about the list. Not only do our overseas
brothers have to struggle with prints and instructions that sometimes seem
to be written by aliens, but they do their best to try and communicate with
the English used on-line in a difficult language not their own. I have
nothing but the greatest respect for you.
About all I can manage to do is swear in 14 languages. Comes in handy
when your mother-in-law shows up while you're working on your project!
Good building to all!
Bill
>
> Peter Barthold
>
> HDS TD VW conv.
> Tailkit complete, wing kit in progress
> www.petersprojekt42.de
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32937#32937
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Dual stick mod
All-
I may regret it later, but it the responses seem to favor the center
stick for access reasons. I've decided to go with the original design
arrangement. I guess it will be a while before I can provide a builder's
report.
Bill
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Coordinates - 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Briggs <idyll1@verizon.net>
Lynn,
I just finished my wings and I found the measurements on the
drawings weren't accurate for my wing tips. You need to have your
aileron in place and shape the wing tip to the aileron. I just
adjusted all the measurements based on the amount I needed to merge
with the aileron. So (as an example) if you need to move in 5 mm at
the rear spar, you would adjust the other measurements accordingly.
Then use these new measurements for the other wing. Hope this helps.
Gary Briggs
Kennewick, WA
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
For what it's worth
My 701 has the stock center stick. A friend that is building a Rans S-6, and
that has their standard dual stick told me to try his on for size today. Trying
to get my leg around that stick (and not being quite as limber as I was when I
was a tad younger), while not impossible, definitely makes me appreciate not
having to maneuver around that stick every time I want to get in or out. Also my
daughter that flies with me regularly has some physical handicaps that would
likely make it a real chore for her to enter or exit the airplane trying to get
past the dual stick setup. Something to keep in mind if there should ever be the
need to make a fast exit from the aircraft in an emergency situation. I wouldn't
trade the center stick for duals in mine for anything. Besides, it is quite
comfortable to operate.
Mike Sinclair N701TD
>
> From: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 Dual stick mod
> All-
> I may regret it later, but it the responses seem to favor the center
> stick for access reasons. I've decided to go with the original design
> arrangement. I guess it will be a while before I can provide a builder's
> report.
> Bill
Message 27
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| Subject: | 912 water temp probe? Discussion welcome |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
I think you misread his response, the water temp gage is needed, however
Rotax uses an installation point on the cylinder head that does not directly
contact the water/coolant but reads the temperature of the water jacket.
Only the cylinder heads are water cooled on a Rotax engine, not the cylinder
sleeves or block. I hope clarification this helps.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
-----Original Message-----
Thilo says, " it's not really needed".
I realize that "experimental" and "standard" category are not one and the
same. However some "inspectors" seem to overlap the regulations when doing
an airworthiness inspection. I know when they inspected my 701 (liqiud
cooled) they wanted "certain" gauges.
FAR 91.205 Standard Category, Instrument and Equipment Requirements
states: Temperature gauge for each liquid cooled engine. Are you folks
under the understanding that the CHT can replace a water temp gauge ? I,
personally, would not have flown my liquid cooled engine without a "water
temp" gauge even though I had both CHT and EGT gauges.
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Dual Ignition toggle, 912 shaking at shut down. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
This is not Corvair, sorry, but is about the 912 in the 701, now that you mention
smooth engine shut down.
Another way I have found to shut down "smoothly" our Rotax 912S is reving the
engine to 2,500 or 2,600 (aprox), then at the same time shut the ignition with
one hand and pull close the throttle with the other hand. Once mastered the
syncro, is a very smooth shut down for this engine. Almost no shaking.
Just need to find out a way to start it cold with low initial shaking... Sometimes
I get it but most of the times, no.
Probably there is no problem at all, everyone says is something normal in the
912 engines, but I personaly dont like that shaking and will like to avoid it
if possible.
Yes, the engine has the slip clutch.
Once more, sorry for changeing the subject.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Flying from Chapala, Mexico
701 912S.
Dave <daberti@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave"
The bore on my Rotax is 84mm (3.3"). I'm not sure what size the corvair has
but I'll bet it's larger. The Rotax has a dual plug system with dual
ignitions that are checked just like the Lycomings and other similar
aircraft engines. I get a rpm drop when switching one off just like they
do. And just like the others my ignition switch grounds out the ignition
circuit so a switch failure is more apt to keep the engine running than kill
it...but that's for Murphy to figure out. One check I do is when shutting
down the engine I let turn off one set 5 seconds before the other. Shut
down is smoother and I get a "Mag" check on shutdown too.
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brandon
The piston area of the lycos is so large that
running both spark plugs will produce a much more
complete fuel burn, as proven by the RPM drop on mag
checks. The same results would likely not be realized
in the corvair with such a small diameter piston, even
with two spark plugs, so running both ignitions does
not help there.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries)
for 2/min or less.
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | E-LSA Airworthiness Certificate in the USA. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I had a nice chat with the local FAA inspector who issues
airworthiness certificates yesterday. One of the things I discussed
with him was the choice of E-LSA or E-AB airworthiness certificate
for my CH601XL. This came up for several reasons, but the main one
was the fact that one of my local EAA club members just got an E-LSA
certificate for his new Kit-Fox.
The only down side to the E-LSA choice seems to be the need for a 16
hour class to get the repairman's certificate needed to sign off on
annual inspections. I don't mind this very much since I think the
training would probably be valuable anyway.
One down side cited by the EAA when I asked them about this was the
notion that you can't fly a plane with E-LSA certificate at night or
under IFR. It turns out this is just plain wrong. E-LSA planes can
be flown under the same conditions (except over densely populated
areas until the rule is changed) as E-AB or part 23 certified
planes. Of course the special equipment requirements apply for
flight under these conditions like nav/strobe lights and instrument checks.
The bright side of the E-LSA choice is a shorter phase I flight test
period. The guy with the Kit-Fox got only 5 hours. The inspector
told me my choice of Jabiru with the new Sensenich prop would
probably get me 10 or 15 hours of phase I requirement. Just about
any engine/prop we put in a Zodiac would get a 40 hour requirement if
certified as E-AB.
I completely misunderstood the regs about E-LSA. I thought only a
kit from an S-LSA manufacturer that was built to exactly match the
S-LSA could get this certificate. It turns out the reg written for
the "Ultralight Trainers" is worded so that anything that doesn't
meet part 103 can get this certificate and be used for flight
training for hire for several years. (Of course, there is no
guarantee you can get insurance for that training on a home-built airplane.)
Anyone facing the same choice (which should be nearly everyone
building a 601 or 701) should talk to their inspector or DAR to get
the latest information before finalizing the paper work.
Paul
XL wings
-
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith History |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
In this matter, I think (my point of view only) that this is just a "I supose"
thing...
I am sure that if one owner of any of the older models needs some advise (about
repair and or mantainance) on his airplane. He needs only to ask them (letter,
email or phone call to ZAC) and he will recieve an answer or advise.
Same with the newer models. Now that we are building the XL, now that the 701
is finished, the construccion tecnic is very similar with the 701.
I think that Mr Heintz is a very consistent designer, so the newer models (never
seen any "oldies", so I only supose) have their share of legacy from the
older ones...
Hope I got understood a little, given my english.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
Perhaps the most important part of the Zodiac/Zenith history is the
Heintz family structure and the way the different members of this
family get involved with the aircraft.
There are 5 different men involved in this business - all of them
members of the Heintz family. Chris is the one who actually designs
airplanes. He is now retired or nearly so. His only relationship to
the Zenith Aircraft Company in Mexico, MO (as far as I can tell) is
that he is the father of the two principals there - Sebastian Heintz
the president, and Nicholas Heintz the technical wizard and factory manager.
I think the two Heintz boys do a reasonably good job supporting ZAC
and its products - especially Nick. I don't know what their
involvement might have been in earlier models, but it is unreasonable
to expect them to do anything with the models unrelated to ZAC.
There are two other brothers of Sebastian and Nick involved in the
airplane business in the USA. Michael Heintz is working to set up
some sort of operation on the West coast, and there is another (whose
name I don't know) involved in AMD in Georgia.
Perhaps the doubt expressed by the original lister in this thread is
related to misunderstanding that there is a single Heintz and single
company that is responsible for all the Heintz designs. There is not.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>One of the things I've noticed over the couple years I've been reading this
>group and reading the Zenith site is that Zenith is proud of their history,
>but refuses to talk about or support it.
>
>This strikes me as very odd. I'd like to know how the various models
>evolved, and know that they'll be supported. The 200 300 are ancestors of
>the 601 640 but are ignored by the company. The worrying aspect of this is
>the XL is the current baby, whats to stop the company from just walking away
>from all those 601's.
>
>Any idea why they won't support their progeny?
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