Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:05 AM - Re: 912 water temp probe? Is this correct ? (Thilo Kind)
2. 05:37 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Fritz Gurschick)
3. 06:05 AM - 912 water temp/ CHT port (Fritz Gurschick)
4. 06:26 AM - EFIS/EIS (Scott Thatcher)
5. 06:41 AM - EMAIL Inoperable (Jim Pellien)
6. 07:17 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
7. 07:17 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 07:57 AM - Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn (AZFlyer)
9. 07:57 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Daniel Vandenberg)
10. 08:04 AM - Re: Paint (LarryMcFarland)
11. 08:39 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
12. 08:44 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Paul Mulwitz)
13. 08:48 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
14. 08:48 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn (Bill Naumuk)
15. 08:56 AM - Re: Paint (Bill Naumuk)
16. 08:56 AM - Re: Paint (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 08:56 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Paul Mulwitz)
18. 09:07 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Bill Naumuk)
19. 09:37 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn (Paul Mulwitz)
20. 09:44 AM - Re: arm rest cover (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
21. 10:07 AM - Wynne web page. (Paul Mulwitz)
22. 10:14 AM - Re: Paint (Paul Mulwitz)
23. 10:39 AM - Re: 701 Dual stick mod (Bob Tezyk)
24. 11:28 AM - Engine choices (Darryl Legg)
25. 11:34 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn (Edward Moody II)
26. 11:41 AM - Re: Zenith- autopilot (EMAproducts@aol.com)
27. 11:47 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Craig Payne)
28. 11:48 AM - Re: Engine choices (Edward Moody II)
29. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: Zenith- autopilot (Edward Moody II)
30. 11:56 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Craig Payne)
31. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Zenith- autopilot (Craig Payne)
32. 12:17 PM - Re: Engine choices (Paul Mulwitz)
33. 12:17 PM - Paint Booth and AFS process (LarryMcFarland)
34. 12:19 PM - [ B. Abbott ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
35. 12:21 PM - Re: Paint (LarryMcFarland)
36. 12:21 PM - Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn (xl)
37. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: Zenith- autopilot (xl)
38. 12:27 PM - [ Rick Pitcher ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
39. 12:28 PM - Re: Engine choices (xl)
40. 12:35 PM - [ Herb Heaton ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
41. 12:43 PM - Re: Paint (Bill Naumuk)
42. 12:43 PM - Apologies (Bill Naumuk)
43. 12:50 PM - Re: Wynne web page. (LarryMcFarland)
44. 12:50 PM - Re: Partial (75+%) CH 701 Kit For Sale (Steve Hulland)
45. 12:55 PM - Re: Paint Booth and AFS process (Steve Hulland)
46. 01:27 PM - Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn (n801bh@netzero.com)
47. 01:43 PM - Re: Engine choices (ron dewees)
48. 02:17 PM - Fuel Line Choices (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
49. 02:24 PM - Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn (AZFlyer)
50. 02:32 PM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
51. 02:32 PM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
52. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Zenith- autopilot (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
53. 02:56 PM - Re: Fuel Line Choices (Craig Payne)
54. 02:56 PM - Re: Fuel Line Choices (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
55. 03:24 PM - Re: Fuel Line Choices (n801bh@netzero.com)
56. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn (Bill Naumuk)
57. 04:09 PM - Re: Fuel Line Choices (Craig Payne)
58. 04:57 PM - Re: Fuel Line Choices (george may)
59. 05:23 PM - Zenith Bending Brake (William Dominguez)
60. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: Zenith- autopilot (Edward Moody II)
61. 05:44 PM - Re: Fuel Line Choices (Craig Payne)
62. 05:49 PM - Re: Re: Zenith- autopilot (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
63. 05:58 PM - Re: Zenith Bending Brake (LarryMcFarland)
64. 05:59 PM - Re: Fuel Line Choices (Bill Howerton)
65. 06:56 PM - Saddle damaging the stab skin (Michel Therrien)
66. 07:52 PM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Paul Mulwitz)
67. 10:51 PM - Re: Saddle damaging the stab skin (xl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 912 water temp probe? Is this correct ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
H Fritz et Al,
Guess, I need to clarify: the Roty 912 comes with 2 CHT probes. However,
since the cyclinder heads on the Rotax are jacketed and water cooled, what
the CHT probe really read is the water temperature. For that reason, Rotax
states, that an additional water temeprature probe is not required. The FAA
seems to be fine with this logic as well - at least I'm not aware of a case,
where the FAA requested a separate water temperature probe.
If I remember correctly, the water rad provided by ZAC for mounting under
the belly has a port for a water temperature probe. The original Rotax water
rad comes without this feature.
Having said all this, I believe, a separate water temp probe is not
required - the CHT probes are sufficient. On the other hand, it would not
hurt to have a separate probe, if in can be installed in a way without
adding risk for the coolant system (i.e chance of leaks, etc.).
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fritz Gurschick" <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 11:41 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 912 water temp probe? Is this correct ?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
>
> After thinking about this all day and re-reading and re-reading the
messages, what threw me off was the CHT reference. I understand the head
ports do not extent into the water jacket. You use this port to pick up the
"WATER TEMP" even though the probe is not touching the water-----even though
Thilo referenced these as CHT probes the gauge will be marked, "water
temp"-------- is this correct-
> Fritz
>
> Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick
>
> I think the best thing to do, is ask Thilo exactly what he ment.
> Thilo, your comment below, Are you implying a water temp gauge isn't
needed if a CHT gauge is in the aircraft ?
> Fritz
>
> " However, it's not really needed, since the CHT probes are
> sufficient.
> Best regards
>
> Thilo Kind"
>
>
> Dave wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave"
>
> I think you misread his response, the water temp gage is needed, however
> Rotax uses an installation point on the cylinder head that does not
directly
> contact the water/coolant but reads the temperature of the water jacket.
> Only the cylinder heads are water cooled on a Rotax engine, not the
cylinder
> sleeves or block. I hope clarification this helps.
>
> Dave 601-HD 912ULS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Thilo says, " it's not really needed".
> I realize that "experimental" and "standard" category are not one and the
> same. However some "inspectors" seem to overlap the regulations when doing
> an airworthiness inspection. I know when they inspected my 701 (liqiud
> cooled) they wanted "certain" gauges.
> FAR 91.205 Standard Category, Instrument and Equipment Requirements
> states: Temperature gauge for each liquid cooled engine. Are you folks
> under the understanding that the CHT can replace a water temp gauge ? I,
> personally, would not have flown my liquid cooled engine without a "water
> temp" gauge even though I had both CHT and EGT gauges.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get amazing travel prices for air and hotel in one click on Yahoo!
FareChase
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2/min or less.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
JFK Jr. and the two girls would probably be alive today it John Jr. had done as
Frank suggests---- Fritz
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted
by: Paul Mulwitz
Hi Frank,
Your autopilot solution is great for someone willing to bet his life
and his passenger's life that some computer software can fly a plane
better than he can. For me, a good gyro or two sounds a lot more attractive.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>Yeah I know you could inadvertantly stray into bad weather but if
>you had an A/P you simply hit the engage knob and the A/P will
>immediately level the wings. You then punch in the nearest button on
>your handheld and the GPS will drive the A/P to take you anywhere you
>want to go....Or turn the knob to dial up a new heading and the thing
>will turn the airplane around for you with better control than you could
>probably manage.
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
Message 3
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| Subject: | 912 water temp/ CHT port |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
Dave, Thilo-------- thank you for your explanations---- I understand now what was
being said and can see the areas I misunderstood. -----Fritz
---------------------------------
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
<<Your autopilot solution is great for someone willing to bet his life
and his passenger's life that some computer software can fly a plane
better than he can.>>
Not trying to start an argument but fly-by-wire has been around for some =
time now without many problems. But in the end, it's up to the =
individual what they trust or don't trust.
Has anyone looked over the comparison between Blue Mountain's G4 Lite =
with virtual terrain in both top down and forward looking views? I'm =
impressed with the ads but have not seen or heard of anyone using these =
yet.
Message 5
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| Subject: | EMAIL Inoperable |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" <jim@pellien.com>
I just wanted to let you know that I have been unable to receive EMAIL since
Saturday Morning (May 6th). My ISP is working the problem.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
Message 6
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Ya...His gyros didn't do him much good did they?..
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fritz
Gurschick
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:34 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Fritz Gurschick <taffy8706@yahoo.com>
JFK Jr. and the two girls would probably be alive today it John Jr. had
done as Frank suggests---- Fritz
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List
message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
Hi Frank,
Your autopilot solution is great for someone willing to bet his life and
his passenger's life that some computer software can fly a plane better
than he can. For me, a good gyro or two sounds a lot more attractive.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>Yeah I know you could inadvertantly stray into bad weather but if you
>had an A/P you simply hit the engage knob and the A/P will immediately
>level the wings. You then punch in the nearest button on your handheld
>and the GPS will drive the A/P to take you anywhere you want to
>go....Or turn the knob to dial up a new heading and the thing will turn
>the airplane around for you with better control than you could probably
>manage.
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
Message 7
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
But that's exactly what the EFIS is... A box of computuer software that
gives you a visual representation of the horizon...there is no
difference between than and an A/P.
Well OK there is in that the software is driving a servo to keep the
plane upright...In either case if the software fails you got the same
problem.
Remember the Pictoral Pilot has a visual output just like the EFIS...If
the servo quit then you can hand fly it from the turn coordinator
head...One that actually works in the case of the A/P.
If you think you want a real Gyro then you had better forget the EFIS
too and go buy a vacuum pump!
Remember also we are talking about a BACKUP situation...I.e under VFR
you should never been in bad weather in any case. Your just looking for
the one in a thousand solution to get you out of trouble.
Like I said you'll never use the EFIS anyway (that's real life 400 hours
of experience) so why not buy something that's both cheaper and that you
will most definatly use on cross country flying?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Frank,
Your autopilot solution is great for someone willing to bet his life and
his passenger's life that some computer software can fly a plane better
than he can. For me, a good gyro or two sounds a lot more attractive.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>Yeah I know you could inadvertantly stray into bad weather but if you
>had an A/P you simply hit the engage knob and the A/P will immediately
>level the wings. You then punch in the nearest button on your handheld
>and the GPS will drive the A/P to take you anywhere you want to
>go....Or turn the knob to dial up a new heading and the thing will turn
>the airplane around for you with better control than you could probably
>manage.
---------------------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
Has anybody had this problem... I am ready to finish up the electric aileron trim
tab on my XL, but in testing I can not get the full + & - 25 degrees (as per
engr. drawing). Down isn't a problem, Up is the problem.
I have "flush riveted" the first control horn, for clearance (which helps the down),
but the 17mm travel on the Ray Allen servo doesn't give me more than about
10-15 degrees Up.
Removed the first horn and made new horn (moving the push-rod hole down a couple
mm's) for better leverage. Not much gain in travel. I have also played with
the position of attachment of the horn, but no real change there.
Am beginning to think Engr. drawing is incorrect, as to orientation of horn at
connection (maybe it's upside-down). Drawing leaves much to desire.
Any advice or suggestions much appreciated...pictures would be nice.
Thanks,
Mike
Do Not Archive
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL, 3300
Remember: "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33231#33231
Message 9
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
Mr Mulwitz...
Have you read William Wynne's Thursday night update at http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html ? Please read "The Fan Club" near the bottom of the page.
Dan
Do not archive
Hi Frank,
Your autopilot solution is great for someone willing to bet his life and
his passenger's life that some computer software can fly a plane better
than he can. For me, a good gyro or two sounds a lot more attractive.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Frank,
If you're still contemplating doing your paint job, I have to recommend
you contact Stewart's Hangar 21.
AFS was purchased by Stewart's Hangar 21 and they're making changes to
the website that has
all the information, but they still can be reached at 1-509-679-3021.
Ask for the AFS color chart
pricing and application guide as that's the most easily understood item
that was offered by AFS.
Nice people.
Also there are some good articles worth reading on the web about RVs
being painted with the AFS.
I had to print a few and keep referring to them for detail questions etc.
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/reference/Primer%20Wars.htm
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/Paint/AFS-Painting/afs-paint.htm
Have a good one,
Larry McFarland
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>Are you thinking of painting the airplane yourself larry?....I'm getting
>close on the RV and am debating whether the learning process is a good
>investment vs the screw up potential.
>
>Frank
>
>I'm in the process of disassembling the plane and bringing parts home,
>so insulation, and the like will be added after the paint process is
>finished.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Mike:
I, too, saw this and after confirming I made my parts to spec I 'split the
difference' and had equal travel from both sides of the servo neutral (center)
position.
One flying I cannot imagine it will be a severe problem.
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 5/7/2006 10:59:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
millrML@AOL.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
Has anybody had this problem... I am ready to finish up the electric
aileron trim tab on my XL, but in testing I can not get the full + & - 25 degrees
(as per engr. drawing). Down isn't a problem, Up is the problem.
I have "flush riveted" the first control horn, for clearance (which helps
the down), but the 17mm travel on the Ray Allen servo doesn't give me more than
about 10-15 degrees Up.
Removed the first horn and made new horn (moving the push-rod hole down a
couple mm's) for better leverage. Not much gain in travel. I have also played
with the position of attachment of the horn, but no real change there.
Am beginning to think Engr. drawing is incorrect, as to orientation of horn
at connection (maybe it's upside-down). Drawing leaves much to desire.
Any advice or suggestions much appreciated...pictures would be nice.
Thanks,
Mike
Message 12
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Perhaps you are right. Certainly they would have survived the night
if John Jr. had not started the flight for which he was certainly
unqualified. Even an autopilot can't fix fatal judgement errors.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>JFK Jr. and the two girls would probably be alive today it John Jr.
>had done as Frank suggests---- Fritz
>
>Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List
>message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>
-
Message 13
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Wow...great website...But I didn't see any eference to an EFIS...did I
miss something?
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel
Vandenberg
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 7:57 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
Mr Mulwitz...
Have you read William Wynne's Thursday night update at
http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html ? Please read "The Fan Club" near
the bottom of the page.
Dan
Do not archive
Hi Frank,
Your autopilot solution is great for someone willing to bet his life and
his passenger's life that some computer software can fly a plane better
than he can. For me, a good gyro or two sounds a lot more attractive.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and
save big.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Mike-
When I was installing the servo in my HDS, Zenith said the setup was the
same as the XL- use the XL instructions.
Don't know if they've fixed them yet, but the pictures were flipped.
Follow the pictures and you're guaranteed to screw up the installation.
Can't say for sure if this is the problem in your case, but you might
want to check it out.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "AZFlyer" <millrML@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 10:53 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
>
> Has anybody had this problem... I am ready to finish up the electric
> aileron trim tab on my XL, but in testing I can not get the full + & - 25
> degrees (as per engr. drawing). Down isn't a problem, Up is the problem.
>
> I have "flush riveted" the first control horn, for clearance (which helps
> the down), but the 17mm travel on the Ray Allen servo doesn't give me more
> than about 10-15 degrees Up.
>
> Removed the first horn and made new horn (moving the push-rod hole down a
> couple mm's) for better leverage. Not much gain in travel. I have also
> played with the position of attachment of the horn, but no real change
> there.
>
> Am beginning to think Engr. drawing is incorrect, as to orientation of
> horn at connection (maybe it's upside-down). Drawing leaves much to
> desire.
>
> Any advice or suggestions much appreciated...pictures would be nice.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> --------
> Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
> 601 XL, 3300
>
> Remember: "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33231#33231
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Larry-
What did you wind up doing re: paint booth (Or aren't you to that stage
yet)? Being familiar with your work, I picture a filtered, temperature and
humidity controlled environment that doubles as a "Safe Room" in hayfever
season.
I think you know me well enough to accept that as a compliment rather
than criticism!!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Frank,
> If you're still contemplating doing your paint job, I have to recommend
> you contact Stewart's Hangar 21.
> AFS was purchased by Stewart's Hangar 21 and they're making changes to
> the website that has
> all the information, but they still can be reached at 1-509-679-3021.
> Ask for the AFS color chart
> pricing and application guide as that's the most easily understood item
> that was offered by AFS.
> Nice people.
> Also there are some good articles worth reading on the web about RVs
> being painted with the AFS.
> I had to print a few and keep referring to them for detail questions etc.
>
> http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/reference/Primer%20Wars.htm
> http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/Paint/AFS-Painting/afs-paint.htm
>
> Have a good one,
>
> Larry McFarland
>
>
> Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>>
>>Are you thinking of painting the airplane yourself larry?....I'm getting
>>close on the RV and am debating whether the learning process is a good
>>investment vs the screw up potential.
>>
>>Frank
>>
>>I'm in the process of disassembling the plane and bringing parts home,
>>so insulation, and the like will be added after the paint process is
>>finished.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hello Larry,
Yes I am still deabating that as I spend hours and hours sanding
fiberglass...:)
The only question I have with the AFS (that's the water based stuff
correct?) is the durability and cost. I think I have the componentry to
make a fresh air breathing system (or I can buy a Hobby air for $400),
so the cost delta is one issue.
The durability is particularly relevant on the RV with a tip up
canopy...The roll bar I painted with refinsihing paint (non cyanide) and
where the flexiglass rubs against the roll bar it rubbed it right
off...So it has to be a tough paint, which I know the Eurethanes are,
but not sure about the AFS.
I'll have a look at it though, it could be a good solution.
I'm still debating spraying the non cyanide primer and having my expert
friend come over to spray the finish coats as that should be a pretty
small investment...But I'd also love to be able to spray paint too...:)
Choices, choices...:)
Thanks for yur thoughts Larry
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryMcFarland
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
--> <larry@macsmachine.com>
Frank,
If you're still contemplating doing your paint job, I have to recommend
you contact Stewart's Hangar 21.
AFS was purchased by Stewart's Hangar 21 and they're making changes to
the website that has all the information, but they still can be reached
at 1-509-679-3021.
Ask for the AFS color chart
pricing and application guide as that's the most easily understood item
that was offered by AFS.
Nice people.
Also there are some good articles worth reading on the web about RVs
being painted with the AFS.
I had to print a few and keep referring to them for detail questions
etc.
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/reference/Primer%20Wars.htm
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/Paint/AFS-Painting/afs-paint.htm
Have a good one,
Larry McFarland
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>--> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>Are you thinking of painting the airplane yourself larry?....I'm
>getting close on the RV and am debating whether the learning process is
>a good investment vs the screw up potential.
>
>Frank
>
>I'm in the process of disassembling the plane and bringing parts home,
>so insulation, and the like will be added after the paint process is
>finished.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Now I am really confused. I thought you were suggesting using the
autopilot for EFIS backup. Now it seems you recommend the autopilot
instead of the EFIS.
I am lost on the cost issue too. I thought the autopilot cost about
twice the price of the EFIS and perhaps 10 times the cost of a single gyro.
What actual set of hardware are you suggesting for VFR use? Also,
why are you suggesting the need for an autopilot for cross country
flight in a docile plane like an XL? It is not twitchy like your
HDS, and should stay put with proper trim settings.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
P.S A vacuum pump and turn and bank indicator would be a
satisfactory set of equipment for inadvertent IFR survival and would
cost less than $1000 total. You need some sort of altimeter and
airspeed indicator anyway.
At 07:12 AM 5/7/2006, you wrote:
>If you think you want a real Gyro then you had better forget the EFIS
>too and go buy a vacuum pump!
>
>Remember also we are talking about a BACKUP situation...I.e under VFR
>you should never been in bad weather in any case. Your just looking for
>the one in a thousand solution to get you out of trouble.
--
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 9:59 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
I want a cross country VFR capability, =
> not an IFR ready panel.
FWIW, so do I. I'm not crazy about the prospect of tearing my outboard
wings back down to retrofit AP servos. On the other hand, I have to admit
that when we got a GPS and slaved it to the one-axis autopilot on the C-172
Superhawk I sold my share of to buy my HDS kit and nailed an airport out in
the middle of nowhere, Ohio, I was impressed.
In my opinion, either way you go you're going to save big time on
installation hassles and weight.
Bill
>
> Ed Moody II
> Rayne, LA
> 601XL / wings
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Mike,
I went out to my shop to measure the aileron trim movement and check
the drawing and date.
My aileron trim is done according to drawing 6-ATO-1 dated 01-05. I
measured 32 degrees up and 30 degrees down movement.
Pictures are attached.
I hope this helps you
Paul
XL wings
>Has anybody had this problem... I am ready to finish up the
>electric aileron trim tab on my XL, but in testing I can not get the
>full + & - 25 degrees (as per engr. drawing). Down isn't a problem,
>Up is the problem.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: arm rest cover |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
John, remember you have to get in there to inspect, install safety wires,
adjust tension, annuals, etc. If it's riveted up how you going to do that without
drilling? I installed a couple short L angle pieces cross ways to strengthen
the console (I have duel control sticks) and hinged the top at the rear. Used
nut plates and screws to attach the lid top down. Works well and at 210 pds is
more than strong enough to stand on. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Dan,
Thanks for the link. I read the section you mentioned and decided he
is probably not talking about me. There must be other detractors who
fit the profile he describes as "Only built a rudder" or some such
thing. I am on my second airplane.
I was glad to see his comment:
"For many builders, the mere fact that I've relentlessly pursued
providing them with an affordable powerplant option in a marketplace
dominated by expensive products earns their solid gratitude" This
addresses the only problem I really have with Mr. Wynne - the notion
that there is some value to his engines beyond their low cost. He
apparently doesn't make that claim, but his followers seem to think
it provides highly reliable power and has other high value
qualities. This is in direct conflict with published studies that
show uncertified engines have 2 or 3 times the failures as certified ones.
Mr. Wynne wrote to me twice in the last year to argue over my
comments on his engine and followers. In the first one, I felt he
was quite rude. The second one was more polite but did make some
personal attacks on me based on the fact that I am still working on
my wings. I don't know why he feels a need to write to people who
question his work, but he seems to think it is a good idea. I find
this even more odd since he is not a list member but responds to list
posts anyway.
My other big complaint is the fact that I have received many personal
attacks because of my questioning the value of the Corvair conversion
engine. I guess this is a case of "If you can't attack the message
then attack the messenger." Likewise, I have received many
rebuttals that cite what a great guy William Wynne is but don't
address the technical issues raised. I am sure Mr. Wynne is a very
nice guy - at least to those who are impressed with his work.
I feel the Corvair conversion engine (like other auto conversions)
has a place in experimental aircraft. They allow a builder to get
airborne at a very low price compared to certified aircraft engines
and probably at a somewhat lower cost than using purpose built
aircraft engines like the Jabiru and Rotax ones. If the builders
realize they are trading performance and reliability for price then I
have no objection at all. It is only when I hear that these engines
are superior in performance or reliability as well as lower in cost
that I feel a need to object.
I guess I better put on my steel cup to protect me from the personal
attacks this post will bring.
In any event, I appreciate your reference to the web page.
Best regards,
Paul
XL wings
>Mr Mulwitz...
>
>Have you read William Wynne's Thursday night update at
>http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html ? Please read "The Fan Club"
>near the bottom of the page.
>
>Dan
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>Hi Frank,
>
>Your autopilot solution is great for someone willing to bet his life and
>his passenger's life that some computer software can fly a plane better
>than he can. For me, a good gyro or two sounds a lot more attractive.
>
>Paul
>XL wings
>do not archive
>
>
>---------------------------------
>New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC
>and save big.
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Frank,
One way to toughen up any paint is to apply a clear urethane
overcoat. You need to check compatibility, but this sort of approach
may be possible.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>So it has to be a tough paint, which I know the Eurethanes are,
>but not sure about the AFS.
---------------------------------------
Message 23
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Cc: "Zenith List" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Re: 701 Dual stick mod |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Tezyk" <bob@eaglesnestestates.org>
Hi Bill,
I am a 25 year veteran of yoke flying had the same concerns as you about
flying with a stick. I just got my glider rating where you cannot find an
airplane without a stick. To my surprise, It did not take me but a few
minutes to feel natural flying a stick with my right hand.
The differences are primarily in the amount of hand travel you will
experience. A stick will require a little less hand travel than a yoke. I
found that it was actually more intuitive to fly stick over yoke.
I would like to suggest that you find a local glider operation with an
instructor and take a few glider lessons. This will be a cheap way of
determining if the stick will present a problem for you. It will probably
cost under $200 and probably under $100 if you find a club with a temporary
membership and/or demo ride policy (most do) in their bylaws.
I have found that when you are on tow (that is hooked up to the tow plane)
for the first time, a yoke pilot will have an tendency to over-control.
This is compounded by the fact that you have to fly within a very narrow
window behind the tow plane to maintain proper formation. Do not get
discouraged if it takes a few tows to get the hang of it.
Once off tow, you are traveling slower and you no longer are constrained by
the tow plane. The flying becomes a joy as you rest your right hand on your
right leg and just make small movements to get the glider to go where you
want it. On landing, you will get a good feel for how it would be like in a
power plane because you will be using your left hand to control the spoiler
handle. Think of the spoilers as the glider "throttle handle". You use it
the same way as a throttle in a power plane to control your glide path for
touchdown.
If after trying a glider, you can feel comfortable flying off tow and
landing, you will have no problem with a stick. If you get the hang of
flying on tow with a stick in a few flights, your an ace already and you are
more than ready to handle a stick equipped power plane.
One more thing - It only takes 10 hours to get a glider add on rating with
only a verbal and practical test needed. Getting a new rating also renews
your BFR so you can resolve several issues at once, get more confidence in
your abilities and do it for around $1500 or less. Once you complete a
glider rating, you will be more than just stick qualified. You will have
the skill required to do perfect engine out landing every time.
Regards,
Bob Tezyk
mailto:bob@eaglesnestestates.org
http://www.eaglesnestestates.org
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Darryl Legg <dlegg@tpg.com.au>
Hello all,
With the exorbitant price of fuel at the moment, and not likely to go
any cheaper, has anyone been researching low fuel consumption engines?
BMW now has a R1250 engine, around 110hp and only burns 8-9 litres per
hour. Smart car turbo-diesel is another option, but with only 82hp (is
this really enough for the XL?). Seems to me that new builders are in a
perfect position to beat the oil companies and upgrade to latest
technology before 100LL becomes redundant.
Thanking you all for your valuable input on this subject.
Darryl.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Just did mine and it deflects about 29mm measured at the trailing edge both
up and down. The only snag was that the clevis initially would bind against
the control horn at full deflection so I had to bevel inside the slot of the
clevis with a small bastard file. Now all is fine. The drawings are okay
IMHO, but a photo assemble guide section would be nice for future builders.
Ed Moody II
Rayne,LA
601XL / wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
> Has anybody had this problem... I am ready to finish up the electric
> aileron trim tab on my XL, but in testing I can not get the full + & - 25
> degrees (as per engr. drawing). Down isn't a problem, Up is the problem.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- autopilot |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Gentlemen:
There is a reason that so many die in weather related accidents, they cannot
hand fly the aircraft on instruments, they think they can but when the real
test occurs guess what, unless trained and current or just lucky the result
is NOT favorable! Autopilots have saved lives, but why were they needed??? It
is proven that autopilots can and will fly more accurately than a human for
much longer time, and they don't get vertigo!
Elbie Mendenhall
CFI, ASMEL, Instrument ATP CE-500, B-737, DC-9
over 10,000 hours instructing in light aircraft, still instructing
****
Your autopilot solution is great for someone willing to bet his life
and his passenger's life that some computer software can fly a plane
better than he can. For me, a good gyro or two sounds a lot more
attractive.
>Yeah I know you could inadvertantly stray into bad weather but if
>you had an A/P you simply hit the engage knob and the A/P will
>immediately level the wings. You then punch in the nearest button on
>your handheld and the GPS will drive the A/P to take you anywhere you
>want to go....Or turn the knob to dial up a new heading and the thing
>will turn the airplane around for you with better control than you could
>probably manage.
Message 27
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
The Trio Avionics AP takes this a little farther. If you hold down a button
for 3 seconds the AP will execute a 180 degree turn. As a low-time VFR pilot
with almost zero time under the hood I *do* have more confidence in the AP
not getting disoriented in a cloud than me. The Trio AP also will display a
turn coordinator.
www.trioavionics.com
-- Craig
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
The guys who are flying the 601XL with the Jabiru 3300 engine with the
economy carb tuning mod and Sensenich wood 2 blade prop are burning about 5
gph at 125 mph indicated. I'm guessing this holds true even if you use 95
RON auto fuel.... not sure about that. Hard to beat 25 mpg at 125 mph in a
straight line.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- autopilot |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
All I really wanted was first-hand experience-based information on glass
panel units. So far nobody has replied on subject who has actually flown
behind one of these units. Lots of untested opinions and a lively discussion
about autopilots, but not much useful so far. Anybody willing to help with
the EFIS / EIS topic?
Ed Moody II
Message 30
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>> I'm not crazy about the prospect of tearing my outboard wings back down
to retrofit AP servos.
If you are building an XL then you don't have to. Generally they sit behind
the seats. See:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/craig@craigandjean.com.02.11.2006/
Or as a tiny URL:
http://tinyurl.com/n9aze
-- Craig
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- autopilot |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
No, no, no, no. You don't understand. This is the Internet. The guys with
finished planes are out flying, not typing.
-- Craig
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Darryl,
What a great question!
I don't have any great answers, but I do have comments on the whole subject.
I think of airplanes as conversion engines that turn fuel into
flight. One characteristic of this is the amount of fuel you use
controls the amount of flight you get. More fuel means more climb or
cruise speed or some other quality used to measure performance.
That means we must consider the performance achieved in our planes
along with fuel consumption. The engines used in Zodiacs seem to
range from around 80 to 130 horsepower. I assume you can get similar
performance from a 130 horsepower engine running at 65% as you get
from a 100 horsepower engine running at 85% power. If these engines
weigh the same then it seems a fair comparison.
I think the diesel technology may indeed be more efficient than
gasoline engine technology. The diesel engines are heavier but they
like the constant rpm use in airplanes better than the variable rpm
use they get in cars. Alas, I am not aware of a diesel engine the
proper size and design to be used in our airplanes. Also, many small
airports sell avgas, but you need to go to the big ones to get diesel
fuel AKA jet fuel.
I hope I am shown to be wrong in these issues. I still have time to
change my engine choice if someone can show there is a real
efficiency advantage to be had. For now I prefer to buy the most
power I can put in my plane (Jabiru 3300) and get my efficiency from
reduced throttle settings.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>Hello all,
>With the exorbitant price of fuel at the moment, and not likely to go
>any cheaper, has anyone been researching low fuel consumption engines?
>BMW now has a R1250 engine, around 110hp and only burns 8-9 litres per
>hour. Smart car turbo-diesel is another option, but with only 82hp (is
>this really enough for the XL?). Seems to me that new builders are in a
>perfect position to beat the oil companies and upgrade to latest
>technology before 100LL becomes redundant.
>Thanking you all for your valuable input on this subject.
>Darryl.
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Paint Booth and AFS process |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi guys,
I just finished making a paint booth inside my garage and it satisfied
my sense for functional
economy. So with pictures and a linked descriptive, I've added a page
to show how I did
it and how minimal one of these can be done inside an attached plastered
and paneled garage
without ruining anything. It's 10-ft x 19-ft x 7-1/2-ft high and cost
less than $150. It is also
knock-down re-usable and re-sizable, owing to using PVC. Check it out
at "Paint" and the
link to a printable page on its construction. (one of the pics below)
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/paint/full/paint-booth-garage.gif
I'm using the waterborne primer/sealer and the 2-part polyurethane and
catalyst thinned with
water to neutralize the isocyanate. This is as durable a polyurethane
as the VOC thinned stuff
but a lot safer. This paint was developed to satisfy the EPA especially
for painting jets and you
know how fussy they are with their finishes.
I'll try to report my experience with this process when I get a finished
product. Stewart's Hangar
21 purchased the AFS paint system and now are responsible for
manufacture, distribution etc.
Their phone number is 1-509-679-3021 if you need more information.
Have a good day
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
Message 34
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| Subject: | [ B. Abbott ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: B. Abbott <barold@nexicom.net>
Lists: Zenith-List
Subject: Zenith's For Sale
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/barold@nexicom.net.05.07.2006/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
----------------------------------------------------------
Message 35
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Bill,
See my Paint page on the website menu for a detailed description of a
paint booth with pictures.
Right, filtered and enclosed as to fit my home garage with plane inside.
One solution anyway,
Larry
Bill Naumuk wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>
>Larry-
> What did you wind up doing re: paint booth (Or aren't you to that stage
>yet)? Being familiar with your work, I picture a filtered, temperature and
>humidity controlled environment that doubles as a "Safe Room" in hayfever
>season.
> I think you know me well enough to accept that as a compliment rather
>than criticism!!
> Bill
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Regarding, 'Any advice or suggestions'....
Use bolts to attach the horn, not rivets.
The fasteners are loaded in tension.
Mine became loose in fewer than 100 hours.
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
332 hours
CH601XL, Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49
On Sun, 7 May 2006, AZFlyer wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
> ......snip
> I have "flush riveted" the first control horn
> .........snip
> Any advice or suggestions much appreciated..
> Thanks, Mike
>
> Do Not Archive
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- autopilot |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Search the rv-list.
There are a number of EFIS flight reports.
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
332 hours
CH601XL, Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49
On Sun, 7 May 2006, Edward Moody II wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
> All I really wanted was first-hand experience-based information on glass
> panel units. .....snip
> Ed Moody II
>
> do not archive
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | [ Rick Pitcher ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Rick Pitcher <pitcher035@adelphia.net>
Lists: Zenith-List
Subject: Dual Brakes with Parking Valve
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/pitcher035@adelphia.net.05.07.2006/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
----------------------------------------------------------
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
OPERATOR'S HANDBOOK FOR TAKEOFF DRIVE UNIT FITTED TO BMW R1100 ...
The drive unit is designed to fit the BMW R1100 / R1200 / R1250 engine
providing a reduction gear ...
www.microlightsport.co.uk/images/BMWMANUALV6.pdf
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
332 hours
CH601XL, Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49
On Mon, 8 May 2006, Darryl Legg wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Darryl Legg <dlegg@tpg.com.au>
> ....snip
> any cheaper, has anyone been researching low fuel consumption engines?
> BMW now has a R1250 engine, around 110hp and only burns 8-9 litres per
> ...snip
> Darryl.
>
> do not archive
>
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | [ Herb Heaton ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Herb Heaton <HeatonHE@aol.com>
Lists: Zenith-List
Subject: Scratch Building XL Wing Spars
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/HeatonHE@aol.com.05.07.2006/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
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----------------------------------------------------------
Message 41
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Larry-
Wilco. Stored your link in my "Keepers" folder.
Almost ready to fit the strut tubes to the wing (Yuk-not looking forward
to it). Contractor is going to start the rough framing on the garanger
tomorrow- looks like I'll be moving soon. Think I'll just frame a 1'
extension on my existing "Floating" 4x8 table w/3/4" ply top, put casters on
it, then slap your coated fiberboard on top.Gonna put casters on one of my
other workbenches and take it upstairs, leaving the other for Ma to use as a
laundry table.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Bill,
> See my Paint page on the website menu for a detailed description of a
> paint booth with pictures.
> Right, filtered and enclosed as to fit my home garage with plane inside.
> One solution anyway,
> Larry
>
> Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>>
>>Larry-
>> What did you wind up doing re: paint booth (Or aren't you to that
>> stage
>>yet)? Being familiar with your work, I picture a filtered, temperature and
>>humidity controlled environment that doubles as a "Safe Room" in hayfever
>>season.
>> I think you know me well enough to accept that as a compliment rather
>>than criticism!!
>> Bill
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 42
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
All-
Once again, I thought I was e-mailing off-list.
Bill
do not archive
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wynne web page. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Paul,
I have to agree, the studies and data do bear out a more difficult set
of numbers for the uncertified
engines, but they offer as much more in economy and performance as they
require of the builder that
installs one. The person that selects the automotive engine needs to
have a pre-defined sense of what
is required to make the engine work satisfactorily in an airplane. It's
not as much the engine as the
builder that is responsible for the statistics we see. Those that
succeed gain much more from the effort
as well. Being a non-engine guy, I fully appreciate the complexity of
the novice builders decision for
or against the certified engine. It isn't just which one anymore, but
how it's best done.
I believe there is no trade off in performance or reliability if the
Corvair or Subaru installation follows the
path taken by successful history provided by Mr Wynn and others. The
poor statistics only serve to remind
us of the people who made shortcuts, didn't appreciate the problem, or
didn't follow the obviously available
good advise from those who have done it so well.
Mr Wynn is perhaps terse at times, but he's got hold of a great engine,
made it worthy, yet has to contest each
and every other ego out there that says they're going to change
something against his advise.
This is not an attack of course, but perhaps a better perspective is
that it's not the engines, it's a people problem.
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>that there is some value to his engines beyond their low cost. He
>apparently doesn't make that claim, but his followers seem to think
>it provides highly reliable power and has other high value
>qualities. This is in direct conflict with published studies that
>show uncertified engines have 2 or 3 times the failures as certified ones.
>
> If the builders
>realize they are trading performance and reliability for price then I
>have no objection at all. It is only when I hear that these engines
>are superior in performance or reliability as well as lower in cost
>that I feel a need to object.
>
>I guess I better put on my steel cup to protect me from the personal
>attacks this post will bring.
>
>In any event, I appreciate your reference to the web page.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Paul
>XL wings
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Partial (75+%) CH 701 Kit For Sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Hulland" <marinegunner@gmail.com>
All,
I have a CH 701 Kit with completed wings, slats, elevator, rudder and
fuselage. Includes Rotax engine, engine mount, basic instruments, cowling
(upper and lower), spinner and propeller, plans (several sets), several
years worth of Newsletters. The wings have been wired and lights are
attached. Wing tanks installed. Center yoke stick. I would say the kit is
about 75%+ complete with very nice workmanship. Have been working on the
cockpit and basic engine installation. My guess is that it will take about
125 hours to make the airplane airworthy with a basic interior, no paint,
etc. Am about to start working on the addition of some inspection ports. I
do not have to sell this kit and can finish it during the next year or so i=
f
it is not sold.
I have found a CH601 with a tail wheel that is complete and flying. It has =
a
modified canopy that was approved by CH with an upgraded Continental A65.
Needs paint and several other items (radio, transponder, wing lockers,
etc.). My intent is to purchase the airplane because I will be flying soone=
r
and I believe it will meet my needs very well.
I have flown the airplane and it does well with two 210 +/- 5'10" pilots
aboard - even on a 92 degree day with a DA of 4,300 +/- at our 2,600' deser=
t
airport. Not the same short-field capability as the 701, but it will meet m=
y
needs very well. More importantly, I think my wife likes it better, or at
least seems too. I am sure that many can understand my desire to fly is
stronger than my desire to build - even though I enjoy both.
I do not have to sell the 701 anytime soon, but would like to do so in orde=
r
to make purchasing the 601 easier on my wife and my life. I paid $14,000 fo=
r
the kit, engine, etc. and would like to sell it somewhere within that
ball-park. I will consider reasonable offers. The airplane is fairly close
to Tucson, Arizona. Please contact me at Marinegunner@gmail.com if you migh=
t
be interested and/or would like to learn more. I would appreciate calls fro=
m
anyone who is really interested in purchasing a CH 701, rather than from
someone who is simply curious. You can feel free to pass this information
along to any of your friends who are not on the list, but might be
interested.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 701, Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
free email and attachments.
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Paint Booth and AFS process |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Hulland" <marinegunner@gmail.com>
Larry,
Nice paint booth picture. I will be needing a paint booth in the near
future. Your design might work well in my pole barn - with the added
advantage that I do not have to really a great deal about hurting anything
inside the barn.
*DO NOT ARCHIVE*
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 701, Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
free email and attachments.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
>Has anybody had this problem... I am ready to finish up the =
>electric aileron trim tab on my XL, but in testing I can not get the =
>full + & - 25 degrees (as per engr. drawing). Down isn't a problem, =
>Up is the problem.
>Mike.
This is the aileron trim, I can't imagine you needing more then 15 degre=
es either direction, if that. Even the elevator trim on my 801 never mov=
es more then a few degrees in each direction. I bet 10 degrees max of ai=
leron trim would fix a trim imbalance. My two cents worth...
=
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
=
=
=
=
=
<html><P>>Has anybody had this problem... I am ready to finish =
up the <BR>>electric aileron trim tab on my XL, but in testing I can =
not get the <BR>>full + & - 25 degrees (as per engr. drawing).&nb=
sp; Down isn't a problem, <BR>>Up is the problem.<BR><BR>>Mike.</P=
>
<P>This is the aileron trim, I can't imagine you needing more then 15 de=
grees either direction, if that. Even the elevator trim on my 801 never =
moves more then a few degrees in each direction. I bet 10 degrees max of=
aileron trim would fix a trim imbalance. My two cents worth...</P>=
<P> </P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; &=
=
=
- List Contribution&=
p; &nbs=
p; &nbs=
=
=
<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><BR><BR><BR=
></P></html>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Ed, I can't verify the XL fuel burn but my 601 HDS TD with Jab 3300
and Bing with econo tune kit consistently gets 4.2 to 4.4 gph at 125/128
mph GPS IAS (calibrated). I've verified it three times on 1 hour
flights in both directions and different conditions. Plane is light
compared to XL at 605 pounds empty and that may make the difference.
EGT readings are 1300 -1360 F. Temps were lower and fuel burn was
higher before using the econo carb mod but it took a bit of time to get
the CHT temps down because they also went up when I put the kit in.
Everything is fine now and highest CHT is less than 250F at cruse.
There are a lot of tinker factors to deal with but they are worth
sorting out and this list has a lot of helpful folks who have been thru
whatever your problem is and have suggestions.
Ron DeWees N601TD 130 hours
Edward Moody II wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
>
>The guys who are flying the 601XL with the Jabiru 3300 engine with the
>economy carb tuning mod and Sensenich wood 2 blade prop are burning about 5
>gph at 125 mph indicated. I'm guessing this holds true even if you use 95
>RON auto fuel.... not sure about that. Hard to beat 25 mpg at 125 mph in a
>straight line.
>
>Ed Moody II
>Rayne, LA
>601XL / wings
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Fuel Line Choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Listers:
I do not come to the list often with questions, but I am at a crossroads and
would appreciate some constructive criticism please. I am assembling the
wing skeleton of my 601XL and I need to start drilling holes to run fuel lines.
Since I purchased the wing kit, I have barbed fittings and rubber fuel line
from Zenith - but everything I read on this list says there are much better
and safer alternatives than fuel line I might find on a Briggs & Stratton
lawnmower.......
I went to my local speed shop to ask about rigid fuel line and flare
fittings and he kept talking about automotive brake lines and Aeroquip flexible
braid lines. A quick look through Aircraft Spruce shows nylon & Aeroquip as
well. I am at a loss.
What are most of you using? Isn't rigid line brittle....that is, isn't some
flexability a good thing? If rigid line IS superior, where do I get it and
what special tools are needed? Is rubber hose with a metal braid with a 1000
PSI bursting pressure really necessary for our little Facet pumps?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "AZFlyer" <millrML@AOL.com>
OK boys and girls, you came through again. Problem solved. Clevis was binding
on control horn, not allowing for full travel in correct position. A file, as
suggested, solved the problem.
I thank you all, and now I can start growing the hair back...
Thanks again,
--------
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL, 3300
Remember: "the second mouse gets the cheese"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33304#33304
Message 50
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes INSTEAD of..
A Pictoral Pilot costs about $1800 (that's $100 off retail that the
dealers often have it on sale for).
This model has a turn coordinator output that has a solid state gyro
(just like the EFIS) that always agrees with the real horizon.
I'm not suggesting it's a NEED at all, just that it would be a very
useful upgrade and do the same job as the EFIS (also not a need),
especially as you intend to back it up with an ASI and altimeter steam
guage.
As I said for VFR you loking out the window...But IF you got into cloud
both the EFIS or the A?P would work for you, except on a X country
instead of following the little airplane on your handheld, the A/P will
be following it for you.
In my case I have flown 400 hours with just an ASI and altimeter and a
TC that would probably kill me the first time I tried to use to get out
of the clouds.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Now I am really confused. I thought you were suggesting using the
autopilot for EFIS backup. Now it seems you recommend the autopilot
instead of the EFIS.
I am lost on the cost issue too. I thought the autopilot cost about
twice the price of the EFIS and perhaps 10 times the cost of a single
gyro.
What actual set of hardware are you suggesting for VFR use? Also, why
are you suggesting the need for an autopilot for cross country flight in
a docile plane like an XL? It is not twitchy like your HDS, and should
stay put with proper trim settings.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
P.S A vacuum pump and turn and bank indicator would be a
satisfactory set of equipment for inadvertent IFR survival and would
cost less than $1000 total. You need some sort of altimeter and
airspeed indicator anyway.
At 07:12 AM 5/7/2006, you wrote:
>If you think you want a real Gyro then you had better forget the EFIS
>too and go buy a vacuum pump!
>
>Remember also we are talking about a BACKUP situation...I.e under VFR
>you should never been in bad weather in any case. Your just looking for
>the one in a thousand solution to get you out of trouble.
--
Message 51
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
The servo on the HDS servo goes behind the seats...No tearing apart of
wing panels ...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 9:59 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
I want a cross country VFR capability, =
> not an IFR ready panel.
FWIW, so do I. I'm not crazy about the prospect of tearing my
outboard
wings back down to retrofit AP servos. On the other hand, I have to
admit
that when we got a GPS and slaved it to the one-axis autopilot on the
C-172
Superhawk I sold my share of to buy my HDS kit and nailed an airport out
in
the middle of nowhere, Ohio, I was impressed.
In my opinion, either way you go you're going to save big time on
installation hassles and weight.
Bill
>
> Ed Moody II
> Rayne, LA
> 601XL / wings
>
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- autopilot |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Amen to that!
Frank
Do not archive
PPL, (instrument rating if I'm good enough) 500 hours and still in
diapers...:)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
EMAproducts@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 11:38 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith- autopilot
--> Zenith-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Gentlemen:
There is a reason that so many die in weather related accidents, they
cannot hand fly the aircraft on instruments, they think they can but
when the real test occurs guess what, unless trained and current or
just lucky the result is NOT favorable! Autopilots have saved lives,
but why were they needed??? It is proven that autopilots can and will
fly more accurately than a human for much longer time, and they don't
get vertigo!
Elbie Mendenhall
CFI, ASMEL, Instrument ATP CE-500, B-737, DC-9 over 10,000 hours
instructing in light aircraft, still instructing
****
Your autopilot solution is great for someone willing to bet his life
and his passenger's life that some computer software can fly a plane
better than he can. For me, a good gyro or two sounds a lot more
attractive.
>Yeah I know you could inadvertantly stray into bad weather but if you
>had an A/P you simply hit the engage knob and the A/P will immediately
>level the wings. You then punch in the nearest button on your handheld
>and the GPS will drive the A/P to take you anywhere you want to
>go....Or turn the knob to dial up a new heading and the thing will
>turn the airplane around for you with better control than you could
>probably manage.
Message 53
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| Subject: | Fuel Line Choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I'm using Aeroquip braided line and AN-6 swivel fittings but from Summit
Racing instead of AS&S. This is fore and aft of the firewall. True the
pressure rating is way overkill but I like the protection from abrasion,
etc.
http://www.summitracing.com/
-- Craig
Message 54
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| Subject: | Fuel Line Choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Huge numbers of opinions all with pros and cons.
Basic rule, yes you can use rigid fuel line from Aircraft Spruce
provided it is not going across a flexible joint, I,e firewall to
engine....If you do that the line will break from fatigue.
The proper fittings are very expensive but light weight. They use a
special 37 deg flare tool which is a bit pricey in itself
Yu will want some flexible hoses and if you use the proper fittings you
can get a very acceptable copy of Aeroquip hoses by going to your local
Hydraulics shop that will sell you the same thing with steel fittings
(same braded hose) for MUCH less money. The only downside is that the
hydraulics shop probably won't have the swept fittings like
aeroquip...Summit Racing have their own Aeroquip knock offs if you want
to go this way.
There is another way which is what I did....
Use 1/4" brass compression fittings to crush a ring on the ends of the
alu tube. You can then use a 1/4" hardware store plumbing fitting (dab
of locktite to secure the thread)or use the brass ring to act like a
hose barb...you slip the rubber hose over the brass ring and use a hose
clamp to secure the hose.
Now I know everyone will be waving their arms in horror at this but this
setup has been running this way for 400 hours without a hint of
corrosion between the brass rings and alu tube or any problem with
leaking fittings.
Think carefully about how to avoid vapour lock is my only other
recommendation.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Crvsecretary@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Line Choices
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
Hello Listers:
I do not come to the list often with questions, but I am at a
crossroads and would appreciate some constructive criticism please. I
am assembling the wing skeleton of my 601XL and I need to start
drilling holes to run fuel lines.
Since I purchased the wing kit, I have barbed fittings and rubber fuel
line from Zenith - but everything I read on this list says there are
much better and safer alternatives than fuel line I might find on a
Briggs & Stratton lawnmower.......
I went to my local speed shop to ask about rigid fuel line and flare
fittings and he kept talking about automotive brake lines and Aeroquip
flexible braid lines. A quick look through Aircraft Spruce shows nylon
& Aeroquip as well. I am at a loss.
What are most of you using? Isn't rigid line brittle....that is, isn't
some flexability a good thing? If rigid line IS superior, where do I
get it and what special tools are needed? Is rubber hose with a metal
braid with a 1000 PSI bursting pressure really necessary for our little
Facet pumps?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Regards,
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
Message 55
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| Subject: | Fuel Line Choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
PS. If they ask the application tell them it is an "OFFROAD" vehicle. Do=
n't ask how I know. <G>
do not archive =
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com=
>
I'm using Aeroquip braided line and AN-6 swivel fittings but from Summit=
Racing instead of AS&S. This is fore and aft of the firewall. True the
pressure rating is way overkill but I like the protection from abrasion,=
etc.
http://www.summitracing.com/
-- Craig
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
<html><P>PS. If they ask the application tell them it is an "OFFROAD" ve=
hicle. Don't ask how I know. <G></P>
<P>do not archive <BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspo=
werair.com<BR><BR>-- "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean=
.com> wrote:<BR>--> Zenith-List message posted=
by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com><BR=
><BR>I'm using Aeroquip braided line and A=
N-6 swivel fittings but from Summit<BR>Racing&n=
bsp;instead of AS&S. This is fore and&=
nbsp;aft of the firewall. True the<BR>pressure&=
nbsp;rating is way overkill but I like&nbs=
p;the protection from abrasion,<BR>etc.<BR><BR>http://www=
=
=
sp; - The Zenith-List Email Forum&n=
utilities such as the Subscriptions page,=
=
=
=
=
&nb=
sp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -<BR>_=
- Check out the All New Matronics =
nbsp; &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; &=
=
- List&=
p; &nbs=
p; &nbs=
p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.=
=
=
<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <BR>&nb=
sp;<BR><BR><BR><BR></P></html>
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "AZFlyer" <millrML@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Trim Tab Control Horn
Cripes! I forgot there was an aileron trim option for the XL. I was
talking about the elevator trim! Just shoot me and leave me for the
buzzards.
Bill
do not
archive
>
>
>
Message 57
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| Subject: | Fuel Line Choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
No problem, mine are for a Corvair ;-)
-- Craig
Message 58
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| Subject: | Fuel Line Choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
Tracy-
I'm using fuel injection fuel line (rubber) from my wing tanks to the
fuse wall.
Internal to the fuse I've run 3003 aluminum 3/8 lines with flared fittings
to the firewall.
In the engine compartment I'm back to rubber fuel lines. I've run this
combination
for many hours in another plane and am comfortable with its reliability and
maintainability.
George May
601XL 912s finally at the airport for fianl assembly
>From: Crvsecretary@aol.com
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Line Choices
>Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 17:12:36 EDT
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com
>
>Hello Listers:
>
>I do not come to the list often with questions, but I am at a crossroads
>and
>would appreciate some constructive criticism please. I am assembling the
>wing skeleton of my 601XL and I need to start drilling holes to run fuel
>lines.
> Since I purchased the wing kit, I have barbed fittings and rubber fuel
>line
>from Zenith - but everything I read on this list says there are much
>better
>and safer alternatives than fuel line I might find on a Briggs & Stratton
>lawnmower.......
>
>I went to my local speed shop to ask about rigid fuel line and flare
>fittings and he kept talking about automotive brake lines and Aeroquip
>flexible
>braid lines. A quick look through Aircraft Spruce shows nylon & Aeroquip
>as
>well. I am at a loss.
>
>What are most of you using? Isn't rigid line brittle....that is, isn't
>some
>flexability a good thing? If rigid line IS superior, where do I get it
>and
>what special tools are needed? Is rubber hose with a metal braid with a
>1000
>PSI bursting pressure really necessary for our little Facet pumps?
>
>Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
>
>Regards,
>
>Tracy Smith
>Naugatuck, CT
>601xl N458XL (reserved)
>do not archive
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
Message 59
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| Subject: | Zenith Bending Brake |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
Ive built the 48 bending brake from the plans
provided by Zenith. The brake came out pretty well
aligned up to a
millimeter precision. The hinges where welded using a
jig that ensured accurate alignment and there is no
play in it. However, bend like the spar cap doublers
(48 .040) comes out slightly bowed. When placed over
a flat surface the center raise around 3 millimeters.
I takes almost no pressure to align it into place but
when release it spring back to its bowed form. Is
there anyone out there who have this brake and have
been able to get better bends?. Can I still use the
part?.
William Dominguez
Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL
__________________________________________________
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- autopilot |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
Oh... okay, now I feel much better.
Ed
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith- autopilot
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> No, no, no, no. You don't understand. This is the Internet. The guys with
> finished planes are out flying, not typing.
>
> -- Craig
Message 61
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| Subject: | Fuel Line Choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I asked William Wynne (of Corvair fame) what his team has been putting in
XLs. He wrote:
"Our plane has 100% braided an6 to the tanks, Phil (Maxson)'s is only
braided to the fuel selector, it is stock ZAC from tanks to selector. I
don't like to encourage the use of hard AL lines in 601's because most
builders don't know how to make them right and in a bad accident they are
prone to leak a lot more than a braided line.
Braided lines are also hard to suck flat when a vent is restricted, easier
to disassemble to work, and not likely to be pinched flat especially when
they are hot compared to rubber hose."
William has more reason than most to worry about fuel systems. Go to the
very bottom of this page (under "What It's All About"):
http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar1005.html
If you would like the full story go to:
http://www.flycorvair.com/carbice.html
-- Craig
Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- autopilot |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Craig, yes that's true, but it's raining today in Georgia.
do not archive
Message 63
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Bending Brake |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
William,
The bow you describe for the doublers is rather common, but not a problem
once you've interconnected it with ribs, spar and skins. You should be
able
to use the part without reservation if all other dimensions are met.
Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
William Dominguez wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
>
>Ive built the 48 bending brake from the plans
>provided by Zenith. The brake came out pretty well
>aligned up to a
>millimeter precision. The hinges where welded using a
>jig that ensured accurate alignment and there is no
>play in it. However, bend like the spar cap doublers
>(48 .040) comes out slightly bowed. When placed over
>a flat surface the center raise around 3 millimeters.
>I takes almost no pressure to align it into place but
>when release it spring back to its bowed form. Is
>there anyone out there who have this brake and have
>been able to get better bends?. Can I still use the
>part?.
>
>William Dominguez
>Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
Message 64
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Line Choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
I've seen William's skin grafts in person... They ain't pretty.
When he and I had this same conversation, he said "if you just hit a fence,
or put it down in a field, the last thing you want to be thinking about is
"I smell fuel!". That was enough for me -- I've also put in braided lines
with AN-6 fittings all the way from the tanks to the carb.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Line Choices
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> I asked William Wynne (of Corvair fame) what his team has been putting in
> XLs. He wrote:
>
> "Our plane has 100% braided an6 to the tanks, Phil (Maxson)'s is only
> braided to the fuel selector, it is stock ZAC from tanks to selector. I
> don't like to encourage the use of hard AL lines in 601's because most
> builders don't know how to make them right and in a bad accident they are
> prone to leak a lot more than a braided line.
>
> Braided lines are also hard to suck flat when a vent is restricted, easier
> to disassemble to work, and not likely to be pinched flat especially when
> they are hot compared to rubber hose."
>
> William has more reason than most to worry about fuel systems. Go to the
> very bottom of this page (under "What It's All About"):
>
> http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar1005.html
>
> If you would like the full story go to:
>
> http://www.flycorvair.com/carbice.html
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
Message 65
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| Subject: | Saddle damaging the stab skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Hello Group!
I am slowly working on my annual inspection and when I
removed the fuselage saddle on top of the stabilizer,
I got a bad surprise. The saddle made a faily deep
groove in the stab skin. I remember setting it up
with a clearance so this would not happen, but I
suppose that things move with time and in flight.
Anyway, I think I'll double up the skin between the
two center ribs with a 0.025 or 0.020 piece of
aluminum.
So flying friends, when you have time, check
underneath the saddle to see if you have the same
problem.
Michel
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
Message 66
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Frank,
Your autopilot solution seems to only solve desires rather than
needs. The EFIS solution provides required functions like altimeter
and airspeed, and the combined unit also provides the required tachometer.
The EFIS units provide all sorts of gyro functionality on top of the
required panel functions. I think the low end ones may do this for
less cost than the required functions alone when implemented with
steam guages. That makes the gyro capability free from my warped
point of view.
I don't see any need for steam gauge backup for VFR flight. If the
EFIS unit craps out then you just have to fly by looking out the big
picture window in front of you. If you can't fly without an airspeed
indicator or altimeter then I suggest you bring your battery powered
GPS along or get some instruction in seat-of-the-pants airplane flying.
In the case of IFR flight I would insist on vacuum backup gauge
capability along with old fashioned altimeter and possibly
tachometer. Perhaps your autopilot would fill this need, but only if
you have not experienced a complete power failure that wiped out all
your electric gizmos.
Paul
XL wings
At 02:28 PM 5/7/2006, you wrote:
>I'm not suggesting it's a NEED at all, just that it would be a very
>useful upgrade and do the same job as the EFIS (also not a need),
>especially as you intend to back it up with an ASI and altimeter steam
>guage.
-
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: Saddle damaging the stab skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
I wasn't comfortable using the saddle as the rudder stop.
Neither was my EAA tech counselor. We were concerned that
it could move around too much - not positive enough.
So I riveted a metal stop to keep the elevator from using
the saddle as the stop. Sounds like the elevator would have
pushed the saddle into my skin too.
I also didn't like using the edges of the skins/longerons
as the bottom stops. So, I used a couple of angles as the
bottom stops. This was a good thing to do. Because, the front
of the elevator contacted the edge of the rear stabilizer mounting
bracket (don't remember the technical name) in one small spot.
(Yes, things do tend to move around after your flying.)
And it made a slight dent where it touched. The same thing,
but worse, may have happened to the bottom of the elevator
if it was allowed to rest on the edge of the skins. On the
ground, if you let go of the stick the elevator falls and hits
the stops - or the edge of the skins.
(This is my 4th post today. A record for me.
The clouds were too low for me yesterday and today the
wind was 15kt, gusts 20kt at 90 degrees across the runway.
I was tempted but I stayed on the ground.....)
Thanks for the report, Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
332 hours
CH601XL
On Sun, 7 May 2006, Michel Therrien wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> Hello Group!
> I am slowly working on my annual inspection and when I
> removed the fuselage saddle on top of the stabilizer,
> I got a bad surprise. The saddle made a faily deep
> groove in the stab skin. I remember setting it up
> with a clearance so this would not happen, but I
> suppose that things move with time and in flight.
> .......snip
> Michel
> do not archive
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