Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:06 AM - She Flies! (Jonathan Starke)
2. 12:56 AM - Re: 912 water temp probe? Thilo please clarify (norman)
3. 03:31 AM - Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 (martyn@flight.co.za)
4. 04:15 AM - Re: She Flies! (Michel Therrien)
5. 04:15 AM - Re: Saddle damaging the stab skin (Michel Therrien)
6. 04:19 AM - Re: Water based paint (steveadams)
7. 04:39 AM - Re: Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 ()
8. 05:42 AM - RE : Zenith Bending Brake (Carlos Sa)
9. 05:59 AM - Re: Re: Water based paint (ROBERT SCEPPA)
10. 06:01 AM - Re: She Flies! (n801bh@netzero.com)
11. 06:25 AM - Re: Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
12. 07:23 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
13. 07:30 AM - Re: She Flies! (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
14. 08:20 AM - Re: She Flies! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
15. 08:45 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Paul Mulwitz)
16. 08:48 AM - Pagastol Wing (Roger Roy)
17. 08:57 AM - Re: Pagastol Wing (Chris Lewis)
18. 09:04 AM - Re: Pagastol Wing (James Sagerser)
19. 09:22 AM - Quality Sportsplanes Fly-in, Cloverdale, CA (Chris Lewis)
20. 09:22 AM - Re: She Flies! (Jack Russell)
21. 09:22 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
22. 09:29 AM - Re: Quality Sportsplanes Fly-in, Cloverdale, CA (LHusky@aol.com)
23. 10:12 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Paul Mulwitz)
24. 10:37 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
25. 10:38 AM - Re: Engine choices (Thilo Kind)
26. 10:53 AM - Re: Fw: Re: Scotchbrite (Garrou, Douglas)
27. 11:05 AM - Re: Engine Fuels (Steve Hulland)
28. 11:16 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Craig Payne)
29. 11:24 AM - Re: Engine Fuels (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
30. 12:21 PM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Paul Mulwitz)
31. 12:23 PM - Re: Fw: Re: Scotchbrite (Chuck Deiterich)
32. 01:03 PM - Re: Engine choices (mcr01steiner@mac.com)
33. 01:03 PM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
34. 05:59 PM - Make your front skin removable!! (Trevor Page)
35. 08:01 PM - Thanks (Ray Murphhy)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za>
Hi All,
I am over the moon, 24 months after starting, My Zodiac XL Flies.
Take a look at some pics if you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/index.htm
I have still to do the painting, and some neatening up, but she FLIES!
Did not have a chance to check all the numbers, as the sun was starting to go
down, but seems to cruise at 108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S)
Prop need a bit more pitch, currently at 18degrees, getting 5800 on the ground
(Static), this I am told is a bit too high.
Anyway, will post more data when I have had a chance to let my nerves settle!
Jonathan Starke
Cape Town
South Africa
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 912 water temp probe? Thilo please clarify |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "norman" <normskiroo@ukonline.co.uk>
Dear List,
Regarding the water temperature topic I have modified my XL Rotax 912S =
to include a water temperature sender. This is located in the return =
line to the radiator on the starboard side of the engine..
I have fitted a change over switch to the CHT temperature gauge so at a =
flick of a switch I can see what either are reading.
I have also used Evans waterless coolant and my temperatures are well =
within limits and stable. I have not had to top up the coolant system =
since I first filled with Evans - some 20 hours now.
The water temperature runs about 15 degrees C less than the CHT (No. 4 =
cylinder) in the cruise.
I am using just the one gauge to save space (and weight) on the =
intrument panel, the other reason for fitting the water temp. sender was =
the original set up gave me the temperature of just No. 4 cly head only, =
I was concerned that if I had a problem with overheating of one of the =
other three cylinders having the water temperature would give me a =
better and more rapid indication.
601 XL G-DONT, PFA UK 40 hours so far!.
Norman
Message 3
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| Subject: | Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: martyn@flight.co.za
Hello All,
We're waiting for our plans to arrive, and so as yet we have not started
building our plane. However, here in Johannesburg, South Africa, we are
about 6000 ft ASL. And the STOL performance figures quoted on the Zenith
site for the 701 will be very different up here.
I have heard from a 701 bulder here in South Africa, that the STOL
capabilities are a bit of an Overkill for South African flying conditions.
And that with the inverted elevator design, in a power off situation, the
nose tends to dip quite a lot.
So my question is this, Is it possible to Invert the inverted elevator?
What I mean to say, can we take the original elevator and invert it so
that the camber is on top! Thus making it a more traditional elevator?
Second question,
The leading edge slats are fixed, now, if i was to say, place the slats
flush with the wing, will that then give me the original NACA wing profile
that Chris Heintz used for this wing or is the NACA wing profile made up
of the Wing, the Slat and the Gap between the two?
Any comments and help will be greatly appreciated. I'm so looking forward
to starting on this plane. I've just gotta learn to be patient!
Kind Regards
Martyn Ward
www.Flight.co.za
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Congragulations! This is a great moment!
Michel
do not archive
--- Jonathan Starke <jonathan@entry.co.za> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke"
> <jonathan@entry.co.za>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am over the moon, 24 months after starting, My
> Zodiac XL Flies.
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Saddle damaging the stab skin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
JFYI, I am not using the saddle as a stop. I really
did not like the idea of using something that fragile
to retrain a control surface.
For the elevaor down stop, I originally attached a
piece of L angle to the fuselage so the elevator could
rest on a flat piece of metal. Nevertheless, what you
described happened. With the continuous friction on
the ground, the skin got ground on the elevator. I
intend to pull it, grind it to reduce the potential
for cracks and double the area with a 0.040" (and
replaceable) alum sheet for the contact area.
Michel
--- xl <xl@prosody.org> wrote:
> And it made a slight dent where it touched. The same
> thing,
> but worse, may have happened to the bottom of the
> elevator
> if it was allowed to rest on the edge of the skins.
> On the
> ground, if you let go of the stick the elevator
> falls and hits
> the stops - or the edge of the skins.
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Water based paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
I think the gloss to the water based polyurethanes is just as good as any other
polyurethane. I used the AFS paints and they have a glossy "wet" look like any
other polyurethane.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33391#33391
Message 7
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| Subject: | Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <max.johansson@nokia.com>
Martyn
1. According to conventional thinking the upside-down elevator
is really there to prevent nose-dipping when using the 701
STOL capabilities. For a regular plane a flat horisontal tail
surface with a hinged elevator is enough to balance the aircraft.
2. In normal flight the 701 slat gap is not having an effect so
the profile is the overall profile. The gap geometry is rather
critical to adjust. The Pegastolg wing emplys moving slats in
order to have it both ways.
rgrds, Max, do not archieve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 1:21 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: martyn@flight.co.za
>
> Hello All,
>
> We're waiting for our plans to arrive, and so as yet we have
> not started
> building our plane. However, here in Johannesburg, South
> Africa, we are
> about 6000 ft ASL. And the STOL performance figures quoted on
> the Zenith
> site for the 701 will be very different up here.
>
> I have heard from a 701 bulder here in South Africa, that the STOL
> capabilities are a bit of an Overkill for South African
> flying conditions.
> And that with the inverted elevator design, in a power off
> situation, the
> nose tends to dip quite a lot.
>
> So my question is this, Is it possible to Invert the inverted
> elevator?
> What I mean to say, can we take the original elevator and invert it so
> that the camber is on top! Thus making it a more traditional elevator?
>
> Second question,
>
> The leading edge slats are fixed, now, if i was to say, place
> the slats
> flush with the wing, will that then give me the original NACA
> wing profile
> that Chris Heintz used for this wing or is the NACA wing
> profile made up
> of the Wing, the Slat and the Gap between the two?
>
> Any comments and help will be greatly appreciated. I'm so
> looking forward
> to starting on this plane. I've just gotta learn to be patient!
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Martyn Ward
> www.Flight.co.za
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Zenith Bending Brake |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, William
It is pretty difficult to get rid of that slight bow.
But, as you noted, it goes away with a little pressure.
When you assemble it in place, make sure it is straight, that's all.
Happy building
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
--- William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com> a crit :
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez <bill_dom@yahoo.com>
>
> Ive built the 48 bending brake from the plans
> provided by Zenith. The brake came out pretty well
> aligned up to a
> millimeter precision. The hinges where welded using a
> jig that ensured accurate alignment and there is no
> play in it. However, bend like the spar cap doublers
> (48 .040) comes out slightly bowed. When placed over
> a flat surface the center raise around 3 millimeters.
> I takes almost no pressure to align it into place but
> when release it spring back to its bowed form. Is
> there anyone out there who have this brake and have
> been able to get better bends?. Can I still use the
> part?.
>
> William Dominguez
> Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Water based paint |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> The gentleman I bought the 701 plans from, used
> Rustoleum for his "Savannah." He used the low
> pressure system. The plane is hangared in an area
> that is close to the ocean. Time will tell how the
> paint will hold up.
--- steveadams <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams"
> <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
>
> I think the gloss to the water based polyurethanes
> is just as good as any other polyurethane. I used
> the AFS paints and they have a glossy "wet" look
> like any other polyurethane.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33391#33391
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
Congrats to you. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.=
za>
Hi All,
I am over the moon, 24 months after starting, My Zodiac XL Flies.
Take a look at some pics if you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/inde=
x.htm
I have still to do the painting, and some neatening up, but she FLIES!
Did not have a chance to check all the numbers, as the sun was starting =
to go
down, but seems to cruise at 108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S)
Prop need a bit more pitch, currently at 18degrees, getting 5800 on the =
ground
(Static), this I am told is a bit too high.
Anyway, will post more data when I have had a chance to let my nerves se=
ttle!
Jonathan Starke
Cape Town
South Africa
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
<html><P>Congrats to you. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair=
.com<BR><BR>-- "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za=
> wrote:<BR>--> Zenith-List message posted&nbs=
p;by: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za><BR><=
BR>Hi All,<BR><BR>I am over the moon, 24&n=
bsp;months after starting, My Zodiac XL Fl=
ies.<BR><BR>Take a look at some pics if&nb=
sp;you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/index.htm<BR><BR>I&=
nbsp;have still to do the painting, and&nb=
sp;some neatening up, but she FLIES!<BR><BR>Did=
not have a chance to check all =
the numbers, as the sun was starting =
to go<BR>down, but seems to cruise at =
;108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S)<BR><BR>Prop need&=
nbsp;a bit more pitch, currently at 18degr=
ees, getting 5800 on the ground<BR>(Static),&nb=
sp;this I am told is a bit too h=
igh.<BR><BR>Anyway, will post more data when&nb=
sp;I have had a chance to let my =
;nerves settle!<BR>Jonathan Starke<BR>Cape Town<BR>South&=
=
=
se the Matronics List Features Navigator t=
e Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Cha=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
=
- =
out the All New Matronics Email List =
p; &nbs=
p; &nbs=
p; &nbs=
=
=
sp; - List Contribution&nbs=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; &=
=
=
<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><BR><BR><BR></=
P></html>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
The horizontal stabilizer on most aircraft has little or no camber, they use symmetrical
airfoils or even flat surfaces. Remember, on a conventionallly configured
airplane, the horizontal tail pulls down on the tail not up, so you would
definitely not want the camber on the top. The inverted camber on the 701 allows
the tail to provide more negative lift at very slow speeds in order to keep
the nose up in slow flight.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: martyn@flight.co.za
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: martyn@flight.co.za
>
> Hello All,
>
> We're waiting for our plans to arrive, and so as yet we have not started
> building our plane. However, here in Johannesburg, South Africa, we are
> about 6000 ft ASL. And the STOL performance figures quoted on the Zenith
> site for the 701 will be very different up here.
>
> I have heard from a 701 bulder here in South Africa, that the STOL
> capabilities are a bit of an Overkill for South African flying conditions.
> And that with the inverted elevator design, in a power off situation, the
> nose tends to dip quite a lot.
>
> So my question is this, Is it possible to Invert the inverted elevator?
> What I mean to say, can we take the original elevator and invert it so
> that the camber is on top! Thus making it a more traditional elevator?
>
> Second question,
>
> The leading edge slats are fixed, now, if i was to say, place the slats
> flush with the wing, will that then give me the original NACA wing profile
> that Chris Heintz used for this wing or is the NACA wing profile made up
> of the Wing, the Slat and the Gap between the two?
>
> Any comments and help will be greatly appreciated. I'm so looking forward
> to starting on this plane. I've just gotta learn to be patient!
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Martyn Ward
> www.Flight.co.za
Message 12
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
The original post was all about wants rather than needs.
The original post was about using an EFIS WITH steam guage backup. In MY
warped thinking that is over the top as a backup to the EFIS is simply
not necessary.
So if we are simply at personal choice then my argument is for a VFR
cross country airplane an A/P with two steam guages is a more useful
setup than an EFIS with steam guage backup.
I know what EFIS does, I have one in my RV panel...Its fantastic but I
also know I'll probably only look at it flying IFR.
I also said in my original post that an EMS (if it is a good fit to the
engine) would be a reasonable choice. As you know you can buy the EMS
separate to the EFIS, or buy it combined.
If I was going for a combined unit then yes a combined EFIS/EMS but
WITHOUT steam guage backup might be a cost effective choice...If so yeah
sure go for it, but the original post clearly said EFIS WITH steam guage
backup. My sole effort has been to point out this is way overkill and a
Pictorial pilot is more useful than an EFIS as long as you have the
steam guage alt and ASI.
As for a vacuum pump ... I would rather rely on a solid state
electronic backup...lIke you said my A/P is the backup to the
EFIS....Which has a battery backup...I wouldn't have a vacuum pump as a
gift!
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 7:48 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Frank,
Your autopilot solution seems to only solve desires rather than needs.
The EFIS solution provides required functions like altimeter and
airspeed, and the combined unit also provides the required tachometer.
The EFIS units provide all sorts of gyro functionality on top of the
required panel functions. I think the low end ones may do this for less
cost than the required functions alone when implemented with steam
guages. That makes the gyro capability free from my warped point of
view.
I don't see any need for steam gauge backup for VFR flight. If the EFIS
unit craps out then you just have to fly by looking out the big picture
window in front of you. If you can't fly without an airspeed indicator
or altimeter then I suggest you bring your battery powered GPS along or
get some instruction in seat-of-the-pants airplane flying.
In the case of IFR flight I would insist on vacuum backup gauge
capability along with old fashioned altimeter and possibly tachometer.
Perhaps your autopilot would fill this need, but only if you have not
experienced a complete power failure that wiped out all your electric
gizmos.
Paul
XL wings
At 02:28 PM 5/7/2006, you wrote:
>I'm not suggesting it's a NEED at all, just that it would be a very
>useful upgrade and do the same job as the EFIS (also not a need),
>especially as you intend to back it up with an ASI and altimeter steam
>guage.
-
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Great Job Jonathan.....Even after 7 years of flying it still rates as
one of the highlights of my life!
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
n801bh@netzero.com
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: She Flies!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com"
--> <n801bh@netzero.com>
Congrats to you. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke"
--> <jonathan@entry.co.=
za>
Hi All,
I am over the moon, 24 months after starting, My Zodiac XL Flies.
Take a look at some pics if you like:
http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/inde=
x.htm
I have still to do the painting, and some neatening up, but she FLIES!
Did not have a chance to check all the numbers, as the sun was starting
= to go down, but seems to cruise at 108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S)
Prop need a bit more pitch, currently at 18degrees, getting 5800 on the
= ground (Static), this I am told is a bit too high.
Anyway, will post more data when I have had a chance to let my nerves
se= ttle!
Jonathan Starke
Cape Town
South Africa
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
<html><P>Congrats to you. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</P>
<P>do not
archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair=
.com<BR><BR>-- "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za
=
> wrote:<BR>--> Zenith-List message posted&nbs
=
p;by: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za><BR><
=
BR>Hi All,<BR><BR>I am over the moon, 24&n
BR>=
bsp;months after starting, My Zodiac XL Fl
=
ies.<BR><BR>Take a look at some pics if&nb
=
sp;you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/index.htm<BR><BR>I&
=
nbsp;have still to do the painting, and&nb
=
sp;some neatening up, but she FLIES!<BR><BR>Did
=
not have a chance to check all
=
the numbers, as the sun was starting
=
to go<BR>down, but seems to cruise at 
=
;108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S)<BR><BR>Prop need&
=
nbsp;a bit more pitch, currently at 18degr
=
ees, getting 5800 on the ground<BR>(Static),&nb
=
sp;this I am told is a bit too h
=
igh.<BR><BR>Anyway, will post more data when&nb
=
sp;I have had a chance to let my 
=
;nerves settle!<BR>Jonathan Starke<BR>Cape Town<BR>South&
=
=
=
se the Matronics List Features Navigator t
=
e Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Cha
=
sp; &nb
=
sp; &nb
=
sp; &nb
=
=
- 
=
out the All New Matronics Email List
=
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=
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=
sp; - List Contribution&nbs
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<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><BR><BR><BR></=
P></html>
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Great To Hear Jon, We all know how super it feels to get that gratification
from so much hard work and $, Congratulations !!!!
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Frank,
It sounds like we are in violent agreement. It is a shame that
English is such a difficult way to communicate.
One question on the autopilot. If you lose aircraft power, does the
battery backup in the A/P have sufficient power to operate the
controls or is it merely enough to display the gyro information?
Perhaps I am out in left field on the vacuum pump issue. Many people
I have discussed this with in person take the same position that you
do. My requirement for vacuum backup for IFR is consistent with
legacy certified plane construction. I am also concerned with
complete electrical failure such as might happen with a lightning
strike. I don't know why so many people think vacuum pumps have cooties . . .
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>As for a vacuum pump ... I would rather rely on a solid state
>electronic backup...lIke you said my A/P is the backup to the
>EFIS....Which has a battery backup...I wouldn't have a vacuum pump as a
>gift!
-
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <savannah174@msn.com>
Does anyone have the web site address for the pegastol wing, thank you. Do
not archive
RJ
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Pagastol Wing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis@earthlink.net>
It was www.dedaliusaviation.com, but it has been sold. Not sure if the new owner is in production yet.
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33437#33437
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Pagastol Wing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: James Sagerser <alaskajim@cox.net>
Here is the e-mail address of the new owner of Pega-STOL:
RaymondM@alaska.com
His phone number is: Cell 907 351 2727
On May 8, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Roger Roy wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <savannah174@msn.com>
>
> Does anyone have the web site address for the pegastol wing, thank
> you. Do
> not archive
> RJ
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Quality Sportsplanes Fly-in, Cloverdale, CA |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Lewis" <christopherlewis@earthlink.net>
I went to California this weekend to visit the new west coast represenative of
Zenith Aircraft, run by Chris's son Michael. The weather was great and several
601's and 701's flew in for the event.
They had 2 Zodiac Quickbuild kits on display, while another was undergoing assembly
by it's owner. They had two rudders under construction as part of a workshop.
There were great presentations about LSA Repair and Maintenance. Chris gave his
talk about aluminum and rivets as related to Zenith aircraft.
It was a pleasure to meet the Heintz family. I found them to be very down to earth
and very helpful with answering complex questions as well as the one's they've
probably answered a thousand times before. I now have my very own photo of
Chris and I standing next to a beautifully finished 701. It'll be great motivation.
Anyone in the Northern California area should stop by and say hello.
Chris in Seattle
--------
701 Scratch Builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33444#33444
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Jonathan: Been there. Enjoy the feeling. Jack in Los Osos ca
do not archive
Jonathan Starke <jonathan@entry.co.za> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke"
Hi All,
I am over the moon, 24 months after starting, My Zodiac XL Flies.
Take a look at some pics if you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/index.htm
I have still to do the painting, and some neatening up, but she FLIES!
Did not have a chance to check all the numbers, as the sun was starting to go
down, but seems to cruise at 108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S)
Prop need a bit more pitch, currently at 18degrees, getting 5800 on the ground
(Static), this I am told is a bit too high.
Anyway, will post more data when I have had a chance to let my nerves settle!
Jonathan Starke
Cape Town
South Africa
Message 21
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I have not seen an A/P with battery backup power. To be honest this has
not bothered me that much because I run an electrically dependant
airplane anyway (i.e 2 electric fuel pumps, normally only one wouild be
running at a time in cruise) so a lightening strike = much bigger
problems potentially.
The other point is with an electrically dependant airplane there are
easy ways to provide a redundant system for the whole airplane. If you
wanted to backup the A/P you can simply buy a very small lead acid
battery (like 1.2AH) to run the A/P. This battery is then charged from
the airplane alternator with a diode (preferably a shotkey diode for
$25) in the feedline...That way if there is a major short in the ships
power the backup battery won't backfeed the fault and the A/P will
continue to fly your airplane.
I use a similar setup for my second fuel pump and second electronic
ignition.
As to vacuum pumps they have a pretty high failure rate and rough
turbulence does not do much good for the gyros either. Bob at the aero
electric connection (who is a real guru on this stuff) had a friend of
his killed when his vacuum system failed in IFR. The bigger cooties I
think is the limited life and high cost of ownership of mechancial
gyros/pumps.
I think you will find the reason vacuum pumps and gyros are certified
(also some solid state units are now too but they are very spendy) is
the natural pace of Government beurachracy and the fact the
certification costs are out to lunch. That's why most of the
Experimental electronics suppliers are saying on their home pages they
have no intention of going for FAA certification.
The upside with experimental systems is you get bang up to date
technology with firmware upgrades that you can down load off the web and
update your EMS/EFIS/A/P and even your electronic igniton on Lycomings,
all this via your Laptop...very slick!
If it were certified I believe each upgrade would need
certification...Real life has moved on for this to work I think.
Is lightening a big enough issue to design our panels/airplanes?...good
question. I wonder what would happen to a composte airframe if it was
struck by lightening...Would it even be flyable???
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Frank,
It sounds like we are in violent agreement. It is a shame that English
is such a difficult way to communicate.
One question on the autopilot. If you lose aircraft power, does the
battery backup in the A/P have sufficient power to operate the controls
or is it merely enough to display the gyro information?
Perhaps I am out in left field on the vacuum pump issue. Many people I
have discussed this with in person take the same position that you do.
My requirement for vacuum backup for IFR is consistent with legacy
certified plane construction. I am also concerned with complete
electrical failure such as might happen with a lightning
strike. I don't know why so many people think vacuum pumps have
cooties . . .
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>As for a vacuum pump ... I would rather rely on a solid state
>electronic backup...lIke you said my A/P is the backup to the
>EFIS....Which has a battery backup...I wouldn't have a vacuum pump as a
>gift!
-
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Quality Sportsplanes Fly-in, Cloverdale, CA |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LHusky@aol.com
I to went to the Fly-in and was one of the people building a rudder, to
replace mine, which was lost during moving. Had a great time and enjoyed working
with Mike Heintz on my rudder. Very nice planes there and met some great
people. Can't wait for the next one.
Larry
Builing rear fuse of 601XL
Message 23
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Frank,
One comment on your battery backup system. I wouldn't use a Schottky
diode. They leak like sieves. That means a lot of your battery
power will be used to try to charge the dead electrical system you
are trying to avoid. If you are not happy with the voltage drop over
a standard silicon diode you can build something with no drop at all
using a power transistor of some sort.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 09:18 AM 5/8/2006, you wrote:
>The other point is with an electrically dependant airplane there are
>easy ways to provide a redundant system for the whole airplane. If you
>wanted to backup the A/P you can simply buy a very small lead acid
>battery (like 1.2AH) to run the A/P. This battery is then charged from
>the airplane alternator with a diode (preferably a shotkey diode for
>$25) in the feedline...That way if there is a major short in the ships
>power the backup battery won't backfeed the fault and the A/P will
>continue to fly your airplane
--
Message 24
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Really?....Wow that's the first I have heard of this.
You mean they actually backflow current? No one has evr mentioned this
(as far as I am aware on the aeroelctric list)
In the ZOD I use a standard diode and it works OK...I have a shotkey on
the RV.....I might have to do some tests.
Thanks
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 10:07 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Frank,
One comment on your battery backup system. I wouldn't use a Schottky
diode. They leak like sieves. That means a lot of your battery power
will be used to try to charge the dead electrical system you are trying
to avoid. If you are not happy with the voltage drop over a standard
silicon diode you can build something with no drop at all using a power
transistor of some sort.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 09:18 AM 5/8/2006, you wrote:
>The other point is with an electrically dependant airplane there are
>easy ways to provide a redundant system for the whole airplane. If you
>wanted to backup the A/P you can simply buy a very small lead acid
>battery (like 1.2AH) to run the A/P. This battery is then charged from
>the airplane alternator with a diode (preferably a shotkey diode for
>$25) in the feedline...That way if there is a major short in the ships
>power the backup battery won't backfeed the fault and the A/P will
>continue to fly your airplane
--
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
Hi Darryl,
the Smart car engine is available in the Diesel version? Never heard about
that. Are you sure?
Anyway, I guess, there is not much difference in fuel consumption of modern
engines of same hp and weight. Plus, we have to get used to the fact, that
fuel prices will continue to climb (by the way: you folks in the US are
still pretty lucky in this regard - you should see the prices here in good
old Europe...).
Diesel is indeed a better option, since the Diesel engines are more
efficient, but I'm not aware of a Diesel engine in the 80 to 100 hp range.
Whats else? Guess, we are stuck with the current engines. New technology
such as fuel cell / electric motor will take a while to be developed..
Nevertheless: happy flying to y'all
Thilo Kind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darryl Legg" <dlegg@tpg.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 8:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Engine choices
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Darryl Legg <dlegg@tpg.com.au>
>
> Hello all,
> With the exorbitant price of fuel at the moment, and not likely to go
> any cheaper, has anyone been researching low fuel consumption engines?
> BMW now has a R1250 engine, around 110hp and only burns 8-9 litres per
> hour. Smart car turbo-diesel is another option, but with only 82hp (is
> this really enough for the XL?). Seems to me that new builders are in a
> perfect position to beat the oil companies and upgrade to latest
> technology before 100LL becomes redundant.
> Thanking you all for your valuable input on this subject.
> Darryl.
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Scotchbrite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
Chuck - unfortunately a 94 Zenith newsletter (substantially) predates my Zenith
involvement and my aviation library. What exactly does it say?
Thanks
Doug
-----Original Message-----
Time: 12:23:05 PM PST US
From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
Doug,
See chart on page 8 of Zenair News #84 September/October 1994 sent by Zenith
Aircraft Co. of Mexico, MO.
Chuck
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Fuels |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Hulland" <marinegunner@gmail.com>
What will be interesting to me is learning about how various airplane
engines will run on gasoline with some or a large amount of ethanol - such
as used in Brazil. I am convinced that this country will move in that
direction if we really want to be free of oil dependence on countries that
do not seem to like us or what we are about. Specifically, Rotax's;
Continental A65's; Continental 200's; VW and other conversions. How might
this affect builders, etc.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 701/601, Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus
free email and attachments.
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
I wired my Schottky up backwards to 12 volts and measured the current, 110
microamps. I wouldn't call that significant. This is a International
122NQ030.
-- Craig
Message 29
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
This is a group that is running an IO360 (I believe) on E85...I think it
burns a hell of a lot of fuel (as you would expect cus there is much
less enegery stored in a gallon of ethanol compared to gas) so the range
has to be considerably shortened.
The way I justify it is to run a small car and then I know my neighbours
in there SUVs are using more fuel than I am...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Hulland
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Fuels
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Hulland"
--> <marinegunner@gmail.com>
What will be interesting to me is learning about how various airplane
engines will run on gasoline with some or a large amount of ethanol -
such as used in Brazil. I am convinced that this country will move in
that direction if we really want to be free of oil dependence on
countries that do not seem to like us or what we are about.
Specifically, Rotax's; Continental A65's; Continental 200's; VW and
other conversions. How might this affect builders, etc.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 701/601, Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies
scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help
insure virus free email and attachments.
Message 30
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Frank,
I guess I am not shocked you haven't heard this before. Perhaps the
fact I designed electronic circuits for a couple of decades makes me
better informed than the average poster on the net.
You need to look at the data sheets to confirm this. The forward
voltage drop on a Schottky diode is around half that of a junction
diode. This makes lots of folks think it is a good idea to use them
for the application of battery backup charging. The problem is the
leakage current when the voltage applied is backwards is a lot higher
than the junction diode.
The proper use of Schottky diodes is in extremely high speed
switching circuits - not tortoise speed battery backup
circuits. They switch faster than regular diodes at the expense of
high leakage in the reverse direction. You would be much better off
to stick to the standard diodes. You'll probably save money too.
Paul
XL wings
recovering electrical engineer
do not archive
At 10:30 AM 5/8/2006, you wrote:
>Really?....Wow that's the first I have heard of this.
>
>You mean they actually backflow current? No one has evr mentioned this
>(as far as I am aware on the aeroelctric list)
>
>In the ZOD I use a standard diode and it works OK...I have a shotkey on
>the RV.....I might have to do some tests.
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Scotchbrite |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
It says that using Scotchbrite S is prohibited on aluminum, magnesium, and
copper, and Scotchbrite A is recommended on aluminum. S is ok for steel and
corrosion resistant steel.
Chuck D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" <dgarrou@hunton.com>
>
> Chuck - unfortunately a 94 Zenith newsletter (substantially) predates my
Zenith involvement and my aviation library. What exactly does it say?
>
> Thanks
> Doug
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Time: 12:23:05 PM PST US
> From: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
> Subject: Re: Fw: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
>
> Doug,
> See chart on page 8 of Zenair News #84 September/October 1994 sent by
Zenith
> Aircraft Co. of Mexico, MO.
> Chuck
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
Cc: zenith-list@matronics.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: mcr01steiner@mac.com
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind@gmx.net>
>
>the Smart car engine is available in the Diesel version? Never heard about
>that. Are you sure?
>
I was feeding my Smart cdi withDiesel for the last 127'000 km and it's still
running fine. So I am pretty sure it is a Diesel, and it's turbocharged.
But since I saw this:http://www.smartuki.com/ I am thinking of changing the engine of my Smart.
Christoph Steiner
601 XL
do not archive
Message 33
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| Subject: | EFIS / EIS combo units |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes considerably!...I'll have to do a current check on my shotkey...I'm
using the single battery, dual alternator system for the RV so I could
afford a little more volt drop...But losing current backwards is not a
good deal.
Thanks
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
--> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Frank,
I guess I am not shocked you haven't heard this before. Perhaps the
fact I designed electronic circuits for a couple of decades makes me
better informed than the average poster on the net.
You need to look at the data sheets to confirm this. The forward
voltage drop on a Schottky diode is around half that of a junction
diode. This makes lots of folks think it is a good idea to use them for
the application of battery backup charging. The problem is the leakage
current when the voltage applied is backwards is a lot higher than the
junction diode.
The proper use of Schottky diodes is in extremely high speed switching
circuits - not tortoise speed battery backup circuits. They switch
faster than regular diodes at the expense of high leakage in the reverse
direction. You would be much better off to stick to the standard
diodes. You'll probably save money too.
Paul
XL wings
recovering electrical engineer
do not archive
At 10:30 AM 5/8/2006, you wrote:
>Really?....Wow that's the first I have heard of this.
>
>You mean they actually backflow current? No one has evr mentioned this
>(as far as I am aware on the aeroelctric list)
>
>In the ZOD I use a standard diode and it works OK...I have a shotkey on
>the RV.....I might have to do some tests.
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Make your front skin removable!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Folks, word to the wise: If you're building your plane make sure you
make the front skin over the instruments/fuel tank removable. My
header tank has a sprung small leak and I removed it tonight in about
30 minutes. Glad I put in those nut plates... ;)
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
Message 35
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ray Murphhy" <raymurphy@wildblue.net>
My thanks to Steve Shuck and Jack Russell for taking the time to showm =
me their new 601XL.
It is a very beautiful machine and will most certainly be a wonderful =
flying machine as soon as their engine temp problem is cured.
Thanks again
Ray Murphy
Bandon, OR
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