---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/08/06: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - She Flies! (Jonathan Starke) 2. 12:56 AM - Re: 912 water temp probe? Thilo please clarify (norman) 3. 03:31 AM - Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 (martyn@flight.co.za) 4. 04:15 AM - Re: She Flies! (Michel Therrien) 5. 04:15 AM - Re: Saddle damaging the stab skin (Michel Therrien) 6. 04:19 AM - Re: Water based paint (steveadams) 7. 04:39 AM - Re: Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 () 8. 05:42 AM - RE : Zenith Bending Brake (Carlos Sa) 9. 05:59 AM - Re: Re: Water based paint (ROBERT SCEPPA) 10. 06:01 AM - Re: She Flies! (n801bh@netzero.com) 11. 06:25 AM - Re: Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 (bryanmmartin@comcast.net) 12. 07:23 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 13. 07:30 AM - Re: She Flies! (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 14. 08:20 AM - Re: She Flies! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 15. 08:45 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Paul Mulwitz) 16. 08:48 AM - Pagastol Wing (Roger Roy) 17. 08:57 AM - Re: Pagastol Wing (Chris Lewis) 18. 09:04 AM - Re: Pagastol Wing (James Sagerser) 19. 09:22 AM - Quality Sportsplanes Fly-in, Cloverdale, CA (Chris Lewis) 20. 09:22 AM - Re: She Flies! (Jack Russell) 21. 09:22 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 22. 09:29 AM - Re: Quality Sportsplanes Fly-in, Cloverdale, CA (LHusky@aol.com) 23. 10:12 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Paul Mulwitz) 24. 10:37 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 25. 10:38 AM - Re: Engine choices (Thilo Kind) 26. 10:53 AM - Re: Fw: Re: Scotchbrite (Garrou, Douglas) 27. 11:05 AM - Re: Engine Fuels (Steve Hulland) 28. 11:16 AM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Craig Payne) 29. 11:24 AM - Re: Engine Fuels (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 30. 12:21 PM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Paul Mulwitz) 31. 12:23 PM - Re: Fw: Re: Scotchbrite (Chuck Deiterich) 32. 01:03 PM - Re: Engine choices (mcr01steiner@mac.com) 33. 01:03 PM - Re: EFIS / EIS combo units (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 34. 05:59 PM - Make your front skin removable!! (Trevor Page) 35. 08:01 PM - Thanks (Ray Murphhy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:17 AM PST US From: "Jonathan Starke" Subject: Zenith-List: She Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" Hi All, I am over the moon, 24 months after starting, My Zodiac XL Flies. Take a look at some pics if you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/index.htm I have still to do the painting, and some neatening up, but she FLIES! Did not have a chance to check all the numbers, as the sun was starting to go down, but seems to cruise at 108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S) Prop need a bit more pitch, currently at 18degrees, getting 5800 on the ground (Static), this I am told is a bit too high. Anyway, will post more data when I have had a chance to let my nerves settle! Jonathan Starke Cape Town South Africa ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:03 AM PST US From: "norman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912 water temp probe? Thilo please clarify --> Zenith-List message posted by: "norman" Dear List, Regarding the water temperature topic I have modified my XL Rotax 912S = to include a water temperature sender. This is located in the return = line to the radiator on the starboard side of the engine.. I have fitted a change over switch to the CHT temperature gauge so at a = flick of a switch I can see what either are reading. I have also used Evans waterless coolant and my temperatures are well = within limits and stable. I have not had to top up the coolant system = since I first filled with Evans - some 20 hours now. The water temperature runs about 15 degrees C less than the CHT (No. 4 = cylinder) in the cruise. I am using just the one gauge to save space (and weight) on the = intrument panel, the other reason for fitting the water temp. sender was = the original set up gave me the temperature of just No. 4 cly head only, = I was concerned that if I had a problem with overheating of one of the = other three cylinders having the water temperature would give me a = better and more rapid indication. 601 XL G-DONT, PFA UK 40 hours so far!. Norman ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:49 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 From: martyn@flight.co.za --> Zenith-List message posted by: martyn@flight.co.za Hello All, We're waiting for our plans to arrive, and so as yet we have not started building our plane. However, here in Johannesburg, South Africa, we are about 6000 ft ASL. And the STOL performance figures quoted on the Zenith site for the 701 will be very different up here. I have heard from a 701 bulder here in South Africa, that the STOL capabilities are a bit of an Overkill for South African flying conditions. And that with the inverted elevator design, in a power off situation, the nose tends to dip quite a lot. So my question is this, Is it possible to Invert the inverted elevator? What I mean to say, can we take the original elevator and invert it so that the camber is on top! Thus making it a more traditional elevator? Second question, The leading edge slats are fixed, now, if i was to say, place the slats flush with the wing, will that then give me the original NACA wing profile that Chris Heintz used for this wing or is the NACA wing profile made up of the Wing, the Slat and the Gap between the two? Any comments and help will be greatly appreciated. I'm so looking forward to starting on this plane. I've just gotta learn to be patient! Kind Regards Martyn Ward www.Flight.co.za ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:54 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: She Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Congragulations! This is a great moment! Michel do not archive --- Jonathan Starke wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" > > > Hi All, > > I am over the moon, 24 months after starting, My > Zodiac XL Flies. > ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:54 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Saddle damaging the stab skin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien JFYI, I am not using the saddle as a stop. I really did not like the idea of using something that fragile to retrain a control surface. For the elevaor down stop, I originally attached a piece of L angle to the fuselage so the elevator could rest on a flat piece of metal. Nevertheless, what you described happened. With the continuous friction on the ground, the skin got ground on the elevator. I intend to pull it, grind it to reduce the potential for cracks and double the area with a 0.040" (and replaceable) alum sheet for the contact area. Michel --- xl wrote: > And it made a slight dent where it touched. The same > thing, > but worse, may have happened to the bottom of the > elevator > if it was allowed to rest on the edge of the skins. > On the > ground, if you let go of the stick the elevator > falls and hits > the stops - or the edge of the skins. > ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Water based paint From: "steveadams" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" I think the gloss to the water based polyurethanes is just as good as any other polyurethane. I used the AFS paints and they have a glossy "wet" look like any other polyurethane. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33391#33391 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 From: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Martyn 1. According to conventional thinking the upside-down elevator is really there to prevent nose-dipping when using the 701 STOL capabilities. For a regular plane a flat horisontal tail surface with a hinged elevator is enough to balance the aircraft. 2. In normal flight the 701 slat gap is not having an effect so the profile is the overall profile. The gap geometry is rather critical to adjust. The Pegastolg wing emplys moving slats in order to have it both ways. rgrds, Max, do not archieve > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 1:21 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: martyn@flight.co.za > > Hello All, > > We're waiting for our plans to arrive, and so as yet we have > not started > building our plane. However, here in Johannesburg, South > Africa, we are > about 6000 ft ASL. And the STOL performance figures quoted on > the Zenith > site for the 701 will be very different up here. > > I have heard from a 701 bulder here in South Africa, that the STOL > capabilities are a bit of an Overkill for South African > flying conditions. > And that with the inverted elevator design, in a power off > situation, the > nose tends to dip quite a lot. > > So my question is this, Is it possible to Invert the inverted > elevator? > What I mean to say, can we take the original elevator and invert it so > that the camber is on top! Thus making it a more traditional elevator? > > Second question, > > The leading edge slats are fixed, now, if i was to say, place > the slats > flush with the wing, will that then give me the original NACA > wing profile > that Chris Heintz used for this wing or is the NACA wing > profile made up > of the Wing, the Slat and the Gap between the two? > > Any comments and help will be greatly appreciated. I'm so > looking forward > to starting on this plane. I've just gotta learn to be patient! > > Kind Regards > > Martyn Ward > www.Flight.co.za > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:34 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Zenith-List: Zenith Bending Brake --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Hello, William It is pretty difficult to get rid of that slight bow. But, as you noted, it goes away with a little pressure. When you assemble it in place, make sure it is straight, that's all. Happy building Carlos CH601-HD, plans --- William Dominguez a crit : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez > > Ive built the 48 bending brake from the plans > provided by Zenith. The brake came out pretty well > aligned up to a > millimeter precision. The hinges where welded using a > jig that ensured accurate alignment and there is no > play in it. However, bend like the spar cap doublers > (48 .040) comes out slightly bowed. When placed over > a flat surface the center raise around 3 millimeters. > I takes almost no pressure to align it into place but > when release it spring back to its bowed form. Is > there anyone out there who have this brake and have > been able to get better bends?. Can I still use the > part?. > > William Dominguez > Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:05 AM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Water based paint --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA > The gentleman I bought the 701 plans from, used > Rustoleum for his "Savannah." He used the low > pressure system. The plane is hangared in an area > that is close to the ocean. Time will tell how the > paint will hold up. --- steveadams wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" > > > I think the gloss to the water based polyurethanes > is just as good as any other polyurethane. I used > the AFS paints and they have a glossy "wet" look > like any other polyurethane. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33391#33391 > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:48 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: She Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" Congrats to you. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Jonathan Starke" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" Hi All, I am over the moon, 24 months after starting, My Zodiac XL Flies. Take a look at some pics if you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/inde= x.htm I have still to do the painting, and some neatening up, but she FLIES! Did not have a chance to check all the numbers, as the sun was starting = to go down, but seems to cruise at 108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S) Prop need a bit more pitch, currently at 18degrees, getting 5800 on the = ground (Static), this I am told is a bit too high. Anyway, will post more data when I have had a chance to let my nerves se= ttle! Jonathan Starke Cape Town South Africa = = = = = = =

Congrats to you. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair= .com

-- "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za= > wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted&nbs= p;by: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za>
<= BR>Hi All,

I am over the moon, 24&n= bsp;months after starting, My Zodiac XL Fl= ies.

Take a look at some pics if&nb= sp;you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/index.htm

I&= nbsp;have still to do the painting, and&nb= sp;some neatening up, but she FLIES!

Did=  not have a chance to check all = the numbers, as the sun was starting = to go
down, but seems to cruise at = ;108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S)

Prop need&= nbsp;a bit more pitch, currently at 18degr= ees, getting 5800 on the ground
(Static),&nb= sp;this I am told is a bit too h= igh.

Anyway, will post more data when&nb= sp;I have had a chance to let my = ;nerves settle!
Jonathan Starke
Cape Town
South&= = = se the Matronics List Features Navigator t= e Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Cha= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= =            - = out the All New Matronics Email List = p;           &nbs= p;           &nbs= p;           &nbs= = = sp;      - List Contribution&nbs= nbsp;           &= nbsp;           &= = =



 
 
 



________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:32 AM PST US From: bryanmmartin@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Custom non STOL Elevator for CH 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net The horizontal stabilizer on most aircraft has little or no camber, they use symmetrical airfoils or even flat surfaces. Remember, on a conventionallly configured airplane, the horizontal tail pulls down on the tail not up, so you would definitely not want the camber on the top. The inverted camber on the 701 allows the tail to provide more negative lift at very slow speeds in order to keep the nose up in slow flight. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: martyn@flight.co.za > --> Zenith-List message posted by: martyn@flight.co.za > > Hello All, > > We're waiting for our plans to arrive, and so as yet we have not started > building our plane. However, here in Johannesburg, South Africa, we are > about 6000 ft ASL. And the STOL performance figures quoted on the Zenith > site for the 701 will be very different up here. > > I have heard from a 701 bulder here in South Africa, that the STOL > capabilities are a bit of an Overkill for South African flying conditions. > And that with the inverted elevator design, in a power off situation, the > nose tends to dip quite a lot. > > So my question is this, Is it possible to Invert the inverted elevator? > What I mean to say, can we take the original elevator and invert it so > that the camber is on top! Thus making it a more traditional elevator? > > Second question, > > The leading edge slats are fixed, now, if i was to say, place the slats > flush with the wing, will that then give me the original NACA wing profile > that Chris Heintz used for this wing or is the NACA wing profile made up > of the Wing, the Slat and the Gap between the two? > > Any comments and help will be greatly appreciated. I'm so looking forward > to starting on this plane. I've just gotta learn to be patient! > > Kind Regards > > Martyn Ward > www.Flight.co.za ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" The original post was all about wants rather than needs. The original post was about using an EFIS WITH steam guage backup. In MY warped thinking that is over the top as a backup to the EFIS is simply not necessary. So if we are simply at personal choice then my argument is for a VFR cross country airplane an A/P with two steam guages is a more useful setup than an EFIS with steam guage backup. I know what EFIS does, I have one in my RV panel...Its fantastic but I also know I'll probably only look at it flying IFR. I also said in my original post that an EMS (if it is a good fit to the engine) would be a reasonable choice. As you know you can buy the EMS separate to the EFIS, or buy it combined. If I was going for a combined unit then yes a combined EFIS/EMS but WITHOUT steam guage backup might be a cost effective choice...If so yeah sure go for it, but the original post clearly said EFIS WITH steam guage backup. My sole effort has been to point out this is way overkill and a Pictorial pilot is more useful than an EFIS as long as you have the steam guage alt and ASI. As for a vacuum pump ... I would rather rely on a solid state electronic backup...lIke you said my A/P is the backup to the EFIS....Which has a battery backup...I wouldn't have a vacuum pump as a gift! Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 7:48 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz --> Hi Frank, Your autopilot solution seems to only solve desires rather than needs. The EFIS solution provides required functions like altimeter and airspeed, and the combined unit also provides the required tachometer. The EFIS units provide all sorts of gyro functionality on top of the required panel functions. I think the low end ones may do this for less cost than the required functions alone when implemented with steam guages. That makes the gyro capability free from my warped point of view. I don't see any need for steam gauge backup for VFR flight. If the EFIS unit craps out then you just have to fly by looking out the big picture window in front of you. If you can't fly without an airspeed indicator or altimeter then I suggest you bring your battery powered GPS along or get some instruction in seat-of-the-pants airplane flying. In the case of IFR flight I would insist on vacuum backup gauge capability along with old fashioned altimeter and possibly tachometer. Perhaps your autopilot would fill this need, but only if you have not experienced a complete power failure that wiped out all your electric gizmos. Paul XL wings At 02:28 PM 5/7/2006, you wrote: >I'm not suggesting it's a NEED at all, just that it would be a very >useful upgrade and do the same job as the EFIS (also not a need), >especially as you intend to back it up with an ASI and altimeter steam >guage. - ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: She Flies! From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Great Job Jonathan.....Even after 7 years of flying it still rates as one of the highlights of my life! Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh@netzero.com Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 5:59 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: She Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" --> Congrats to you. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Jonathan Starke" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" --> Hi All, I am over the moon, 24 months after starting, My Zodiac XL Flies. Take a look at some pics if you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/inde= x.htm I have still to do the painting, and some neatening up, but she FLIES! Did not have a chance to check all the numbers, as the sun was starting = to go down, but seems to cruise at 108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S) Prop need a bit more pitch, currently at 18degrees, getting 5800 on the = ground (Static), this I am told is a bit too high. Anyway, will post more data when I have had a chance to let my nerves se= ttle! Jonathan Starke Cape Town South Africa = = = = = = =

Congrats to you. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair= .com

-- "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za = > wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted&nbs = p;by: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za>
< = BR>Hi All,

I am over the moon, 24&n BR>= bsp;months after starting, My Zodiac XL Fl = ies.

Take a look at some pics if&nb = sp;you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/index.htm

I& = nbsp;have still to do the painting, and&nb = sp;some neatening up, but she FLIES!

Did =  not have a chance to check all  = the numbers, as the sun was starting  = to go
down, but seems to cruise at  = ;108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S)

Prop need& = nbsp;a bit more pitch, currently at 18degr = ees, getting 5800 on the ground
(Static),&nb = sp;this I am told is a bit too h = igh.

Anyway, will post more data when&nb = sp;I have had a chance to let my  = ;nerves settle!
Jonathan Starke
Cape Town
South& = = = se the Matronics List Features Navigator t = e Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Cha = sp;           &nb = sp;           &nb = sp;           &nb = =            -  = out the All New Matronics Email List  = p;           &nbs = p;           &nbs = p;           &nbs = = = sp;      - List Contribution&nbs = nbsp;           & = nbsp;           & = = =



 
 
 



________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:36 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: She Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Great To Hear Jon, We all know how super it feels to get that gratification from so much hard work and $, Congratulations !!!! do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:30 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Frank, It sounds like we are in violent agreement. It is a shame that English is such a difficult way to communicate. One question on the autopilot. If you lose aircraft power, does the battery backup in the A/P have sufficient power to operate the controls or is it merely enough to display the gyro information? Perhaps I am out in left field on the vacuum pump issue. Many people I have discussed this with in person take the same position that you do. My requirement for vacuum backup for IFR is consistent with legacy certified plane construction. I am also concerned with complete electrical failure such as might happen with a lightning strike. I don't know why so many people think vacuum pumps have cooties . . . Paul XL wings do not archive >As for a vacuum pump ... I would rather rely on a solid state >electronic backup...lIke you said my A/P is the backup to the >EFIS....Which has a battery backup...I wouldn't have a vacuum pump as a >gift! - ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:37 AM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Zenith-List: Pagastol Wing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Does anyone have the web site address for the pegastol wing, thank you. Do not archive RJ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Pagastol Wing From: "Chris Lewis" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Lewis" It was www.dedaliusaviation.com, but it has been sold. Not sure if the new owner is in production yet. Chris in Seattle -------- 701 Scratch Builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33437#33437 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:58 AM PST US From: James Sagerser Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pagastol Wing --> Zenith-List message posted by: James Sagerser Here is the e-mail address of the new owner of Pega-STOL: RaymondM@alaska.com His phone number is: Cell 907 351 2727 On May 8, 2006, at 8:45 AM, Roger Roy wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" > > Does anyone have the web site address for the pegastol wing, thank > you. Do > not archive > RJ > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Quality Sportsplanes Fly-in, Cloverdale, CA From: "Chris Lewis" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Lewis" I went to California this weekend to visit the new west coast represenative of Zenith Aircraft, run by Chris's son Michael. The weather was great and several 601's and 701's flew in for the event. They had 2 Zodiac Quickbuild kits on display, while another was undergoing assembly by it's owner. They had two rudders under construction as part of a workshop. There were great presentations about LSA Repair and Maintenance. Chris gave his talk about aluminum and rivets as related to Zenith aircraft. It was a pleasure to meet the Heintz family. I found them to be very down to earth and very helpful with answering complex questions as well as the one's they've probably answered a thousand times before. I now have my very own photo of Chris and I standing next to a beautifully finished 701. It'll be great motivation. Anyone in the Northern California area should stop by and say hello. Chris in Seattle -------- 701 Scratch Builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33444#33444 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:16 AM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: She Flies! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Jonathan: Been there. Enjoy the feeling. Jack in Los Osos ca do not archive Jonathan Starke wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" Hi All, I am over the moon, 24 months after starting, My Zodiac XL Flies. Take a look at some pics if you like: http://www.entry.co.za/zodiac/index.htm I have still to do the painting, and some neatening up, but she FLIES! Did not have a chance to check all the numbers, as the sun was starting to go down, but seems to cruise at 108mph, at 5500 (Rotax 912S) Prop need a bit more pitch, currently at 18degrees, getting 5800 on the ground (Static), this I am told is a bit too high. Anyway, will post more data when I have had a chance to let my nerves settle! Jonathan Starke Cape Town South Africa ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I have not seen an A/P with battery backup power. To be honest this has not bothered me that much because I run an electrically dependant airplane anyway (i.e 2 electric fuel pumps, normally only one wouild be running at a time in cruise) so a lightening strike = much bigger problems potentially. The other point is with an electrically dependant airplane there are easy ways to provide a redundant system for the whole airplane. If you wanted to backup the A/P you can simply buy a very small lead acid battery (like 1.2AH) to run the A/P. This battery is then charged from the airplane alternator with a diode (preferably a shotkey diode for $25) in the feedline...That way if there is a major short in the ships power the backup battery won't backfeed the fault and the A/P will continue to fly your airplane. I use a similar setup for my second fuel pump and second electronic ignition. As to vacuum pumps they have a pretty high failure rate and rough turbulence does not do much good for the gyros either. Bob at the aero electric connection (who is a real guru on this stuff) had a friend of his killed when his vacuum system failed in IFR. The bigger cooties I think is the limited life and high cost of ownership of mechancial gyros/pumps. I think you will find the reason vacuum pumps and gyros are certified (also some solid state units are now too but they are very spendy) is the natural pace of Government beurachracy and the fact the certification costs are out to lunch. That's why most of the Experimental electronics suppliers are saying on their home pages they have no intention of going for FAA certification. The upside with experimental systems is you get bang up to date technology with firmware upgrades that you can down load off the web and update your EMS/EFIS/A/P and even your electronic igniton on Lycomings, all this via your Laptop...very slick! If it were certified I believe each upgrade would need certification...Real life has moved on for this to work I think. Is lightening a big enough issue to design our panels/airplanes?...good question. I wonder what would happen to a composte airframe if it was struck by lightening...Would it even be flyable??? Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 8:40 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz --> Frank, It sounds like we are in violent agreement. It is a shame that English is such a difficult way to communicate. One question on the autopilot. If you lose aircraft power, does the battery backup in the A/P have sufficient power to operate the controls or is it merely enough to display the gyro information? Perhaps I am out in left field on the vacuum pump issue. Many people I have discussed this with in person take the same position that you do. My requirement for vacuum backup for IFR is consistent with legacy certified plane construction. I am also concerned with complete electrical failure such as might happen with a lightning strike. I don't know why so many people think vacuum pumps have cooties . . . Paul XL wings do not archive >As for a vacuum pump ... I would rather rely on a solid state >electronic backup...lIke you said my A/P is the backup to the >EFIS....Which has a battery backup...I wouldn't have a vacuum pump as a >gift! - ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:38 AM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Quality Sportsplanes Fly-in, Cloverdale, CA --> Zenith-List message posted by: LHusky@aol.com I to went to the Fly-in and was one of the people building a rudder, to replace mine, which was lost during moving. Had a great time and enjoyed working with Mike Heintz on my rudder. Very nice planes there and met some great people. Can't wait for the next one. Larry Builing rear fuse of 601XL ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:18 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Frank, One comment on your battery backup system. I wouldn't use a Schottky diode. They leak like sieves. That means a lot of your battery power will be used to try to charge the dead electrical system you are trying to avoid. If you are not happy with the voltage drop over a standard silicon diode you can build something with no drop at all using a power transistor of some sort. Paul XL wings do not archive At 09:18 AM 5/8/2006, you wrote: >The other point is with an electrically dependant airplane there are >easy ways to provide a redundant system for the whole airplane. If you >wanted to backup the A/P you can simply buy a very small lead acid >battery (like 1.2AH) to run the A/P. This battery is then charged from >the airplane alternator with a diode (preferably a shotkey diode for >$25) in the feedline...That way if there is a major short in the ships >power the backup battery won't backfeed the fault and the A/P will >continue to fly your airplane -- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:07 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Really?....Wow that's the first I have heard of this. You mean they actually backflow current? No one has evr mentioned this (as far as I am aware on the aeroelctric list) In the ZOD I use a standard diode and it works OK...I have a shotkey on the RV.....I might have to do some tests. Thanks Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz --> Frank, One comment on your battery backup system. I wouldn't use a Schottky diode. They leak like sieves. That means a lot of your battery power will be used to try to charge the dead electrical system you are trying to avoid. If you are not happy with the voltage drop over a standard silicon diode you can build something with no drop at all using a power transistor of some sort. Paul XL wings do not archive At 09:18 AM 5/8/2006, you wrote: >The other point is with an electrically dependant airplane there are >easy ways to provide a redundant system for the whole airplane. If you >wanted to backup the A/P you can simply buy a very small lead acid >battery (like 1.2AH) to run the A/P. This battery is then charged from >the airplane alternator with a diode (preferably a shotkey diode for >$25) in the feedline...That way if there is a major short in the ships >power the backup battery won't backfeed the fault and the A/P will >continue to fly your airplane -- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:12 AM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine choices --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi Darryl, the Smart car engine is available in the Diesel version? Never heard about that. Are you sure? Anyway, I guess, there is not much difference in fuel consumption of modern engines of same hp and weight. Plus, we have to get used to the fact, that fuel prices will continue to climb (by the way: you folks in the US are still pretty lucky in this regard - you should see the prices here in good old Europe...). Diesel is indeed a better option, since the Diesel engines are more efficient, but I'm not aware of a Diesel engine in the 80 to 100 hp range. Whats else? Guess, we are stuck with the current engines. New technology such as fuel cell / electric motor will take a while to be developed.. Nevertheless: happy flying to y'all Thilo Kind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Legg" Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 8:23 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Engine choices > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Darryl Legg > > Hello all, > With the exorbitant price of fuel at the moment, and not likely to go > any cheaper, has anyone been researching low fuel consumption engines? > BMW now has a R1250 engine, around 110hp and only burns 8-9 litres per > hour. Smart car turbo-diesel is another option, but with only 82hp (is > this really enough for the XL?). Seems to me that new builders are in a > perfect position to beat the oil companies and upgrade to latest > technology before 100LL becomes redundant. > Thanking you all for your valuable input on this subject. > Darryl. > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Fw: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite From: "Garrou, Douglas" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" Chuck - unfortunately a 94 Zenith newsletter (substantially) predates my Zenith involvement and my aviation library. What exactly does it say? Thanks Doug -----Original Message----- Time: 12:23:05 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Fw: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Doug, See chart on page 8 of Zenair News #84 September/October 1994 sent by Zenith Aircraft Co. of Mexico, MO. Chuck ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:11 AM PST US From: "Steve Hulland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Fuels --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Hulland" What will be interesting to me is learning about how various airplane engines will run on gasoline with some or a large amount of ethanol - such as used in Brazil. I am convinced that this country will move in that direction if we really want to be free of oil dependence on countries that do not seem to like us or what we are about. Specifically, Rotax's; Continental A65's; Continental 200's; VW and other conversions. How might this affect builders, etc. -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 701/601, Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:18 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I wired my Schottky up backwards to 12 volts and measured the current, 110 microamps. I wouldn't call that significant. This is a International 122NQ030. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine Fuels From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" This is a group that is running an IO360 (I believe) on E85...I think it burns a hell of a lot of fuel (as you would expect cus there is much less enegery stored in a gallon of ethanol compared to gas) so the range has to be considerably shortened. The way I justify it is to run a small car and then I know my neighbours in there SUVs are using more fuel than I am...:) Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hulland Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:01 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine Fuels --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Hulland" --> What will be interesting to me is learning about how various airplane engines will run on gasoline with some or a large amount of ethanol - such as used in Brazil. I am convinced that this country will move in that direction if we really want to be free of oil dependence on countries that do not seem to like us or what we are about. Specifically, Rotax's; Continental A65's; Continental 200's; VW and other conversions. How might this affect builders, etc. -- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 701/601, Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:27 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Frank, I guess I am not shocked you haven't heard this before. Perhaps the fact I designed electronic circuits for a couple of decades makes me better informed than the average poster on the net. You need to look at the data sheets to confirm this. The forward voltage drop on a Schottky diode is around half that of a junction diode. This makes lots of folks think it is a good idea to use them for the application of battery backup charging. The problem is the leakage current when the voltage applied is backwards is a lot higher than the junction diode. The proper use of Schottky diodes is in extremely high speed switching circuits - not tortoise speed battery backup circuits. They switch faster than regular diodes at the expense of high leakage in the reverse direction. You would be much better off to stick to the standard diodes. You'll probably save money too. Paul XL wings recovering electrical engineer do not archive At 10:30 AM 5/8/2006, you wrote: >Really?....Wow that's the first I have heard of this. > >You mean they actually backflow current? No one has evr mentioned this >(as far as I am aware on the aeroelctric list) > >In the ZOD I use a standard diode and it works OK...I have a shotkey on >the RV.....I might have to do some tests. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:57 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Fw: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" It says that using Scotchbrite S is prohibited on aluminum, magnesium, and copper, and Scotchbrite A is recommended on aluminum. S is ok for steel and corrosion resistant steel. Chuck D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garrou, Douglas" Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" > > Chuck - unfortunately a 94 Zenith newsletter (substantially) predates my Zenith involvement and my aviation library. What exactly does it say? > > Thanks > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > > Time: 12:23:05 PM PST US > From: "Chuck Deiterich" > Subject: Re: Fw: Zenith-List: RE: Scotchbrite > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" > > Doug, > See chart on page 8 of Zenair News #84 September/October 1994 sent by Zenith > Aircraft Co. of Mexico, MO. > Chuck > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:23 PM PST US From: mcr01steiner@mac.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine choices Cc: zenith-list@matronics.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: mcr01steiner@mac.com >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" > >the Smart car engine is available in the Diesel version? Never heard about >that. Are you sure? > I was feeding my Smart cdi withDiesel for the last 127'000 km and it's still running fine. So I am pretty sure it is a Diesel, and it's turbocharged. But since I saw this:http://www.smartuki.com/ I am thinking of changing the engine of my Smart. Christoph Steiner 601 XL do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:23 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Yes considerably!...I'll have to do a current check on my shotkey...I'm using the single battery, dual alternator system for the RV so I could afford a little more volt drop...But losing current backwards is not a good deal. Thanks Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 12:12 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EFIS / EIS combo units --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz --> Frank, I guess I am not shocked you haven't heard this before. Perhaps the fact I designed electronic circuits for a couple of decades makes me better informed than the average poster on the net. You need to look at the data sheets to confirm this. The forward voltage drop on a Schottky diode is around half that of a junction diode. This makes lots of folks think it is a good idea to use them for the application of battery backup charging. The problem is the leakage current when the voltage applied is backwards is a lot higher than the junction diode. The proper use of Schottky diodes is in extremely high speed switching circuits - not tortoise speed battery backup circuits. They switch faster than regular diodes at the expense of high leakage in the reverse direction. You would be much better off to stick to the standard diodes. You'll probably save money too. Paul XL wings recovering electrical engineer do not archive At 10:30 AM 5/8/2006, you wrote: >Really?....Wow that's the first I have heard of this. > >You mean they actually backflow current? No one has evr mentioned this >(as far as I am aware on the aeroelctric list) > >In the ZOD I use a standard diode and it works OK...I have a shotkey on >the RV.....I might have to do some tests. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:55 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Zenith-List: Make your front skin removable!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page Folks, word to the wise: If you're building your plane make sure you make the front skin over the instruments/fuel tank removable. My header tank has a sprung small leak and I removed it tonight in about 30 minutes. Glad I put in those nut plates... ;) Trev Page C-IDUS 601HD R912 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:27 PM PST US From: "Ray Murphhy" Subject: Zenith-List: Thanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ray Murphhy" My thanks to Steve Shuck and Jack Russell for taking the time to showm = me their new 601XL. It is a very beautiful machine and will most certainly be a wonderful = flying machine as soon as their engine temp problem is cured. Thanks again Ray Murphy Bandon, OR