---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/14/06: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:15 AM - Polishing Aluminum (Gary Boothe) 2. 06:38 AM - Re: Fuel Line Choices (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 3. 09:01 AM - 601XL Tail Kit (Brad) 4. 10:08 AM - 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel (Geoff Heap) 5. 11:52 AM - Re: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel (Jari Kaija) 6. 12:00 PM - Re: CH 700 Snow mobile with wings? (NYTerminat@AOL.COM) 7. 01:04 PM - Re: Pretend you have two sets of wings, the standard CH 701 and the Pegastol (Gary Gower) 8. 01:14 PM - Re: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel (LarryMcFarland) 9. 02:04 PM - Re: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel (Geoff Heap) 10. 02:05 PM - Re: Best landing of my life! (lgingell) 11. 02:13 PM - Re: Pretend you have two sets of wings, the standard CH 701 and the Pegastol (Paul Mulwitz) 12. 02:18 PM - Re: Re: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel (Craig Payne) 13. 03:21 PM - Re: 601XL Tail Kit (Brad) 14. 03:47 PM - Matco wheel bearings (Mike Sinclair) 15. 04:36 PM - Re: Matco wheel bearings (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Best landing of my life! (Al Young) 17. 05:28 PM - Re: Re: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel (LarryMcFarland) 18. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Best landing of my life! (Craig Payne) 19. 06:26 PM - Re: Pretend you have two sets of wings, the standard CH 701 and the Pegastol (Christopher Hazlitt) 20. 10:37 PM - Re: Engine choices for CH701. (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:16 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Zenith-List: Polishing Aluminum --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" List, There has been a lot of talk about green scotchbrite pads, but I don't recall if anyone has mentioned the Sait Conditioning Discs from United Abrasives (www.unitedabrasives.com/catalog.php?page=105). They have a series of discs, course to fine, all with aluminum oxide grain. I'm no expert on the matter, but that seems to be the concern of the majority. Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, working on wings.... ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:21 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Line Choices --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Hello Listers: I have been travelling for the past week and unable to respond to replies to my fuel line question and I want to thank everyone both on and off lists for thier thoughts. It looks like I'll run flexible in the wings and decide on the fuse & firewall choices when I get there. Again, my thanks to all. Best Regards, Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) do not archive In a message dated 5/7/2006 8:45:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, craig@craigandjean.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I asked William Wynne (of Corvair fame) what his team has been putting in XLs. He wrote: "Our plane has 100% braided an6 to the tanks, Phil (Maxson)'s is only braided to the fuel selector, it is stock ZAC from tanks to selector. I don't like to encourage the use of hard AL lines in 601's because most builders don't know how to make them right and in a bad accident they are prone to leak a lot more than a braided line. Braided lines are also hard to suck flat when a vent is restricted, easier to disassemble to work, and not likely to be pinched flat especially when they are hot compared to rubber hose." William has more reason than most to worry about fuel systems. Go to the very bottom of this page (under "What It's All About"): http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar1005.html If you would like the full story go to: http://www.flycorvair.com/carbice.html -- Craig ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:12 AM PST US From: Brad Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Tail Kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brad I have a complete 601XL Tail Kit (in crate) that I need to get out due to a near future move. Includes a complete set of plans and all of the required tools. If anyone is interested let me know. Located in Florida but will assist with freight shipment if needed. Asking $1350. Thanks. Brad ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:14 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" Hey guys I've just hit an unexpected problem. Two channel doublers are riveted to the vertical lower channel on the firewall. One on each side. They are to support the bungee pin for the nose strut. Because the bungee sits so close, the plans call for the rivets to be pulled from the inside so as to have the dome head near the bungee. The 8 rivets close the fwd edge are a bit tight but O.K. The other 8 rivets are much deeper in and I cannot get a rivet gun or a hand puller in there. How did you do it. The photo guide shows that somebody at Zenith did it. I can shoot the rivets from the outside easy but they really are two close to the bungee for my comfort. Thanks guys........Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34546#34546 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:17 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > Hey guys I've just hit an unexpected problem. Two channel > doublers are riveted to the vertical lower channel on the firewall. You mean these one? You can rivet them by "hand riveter". Pneumatic one won't fit there... http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/DSC03413.JPG ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:11 PM PST US From: NYTerminat@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH 700 Snow mobile with wings? --> Zenith-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com The 801 performance is very similar to the 701 but with more space and able to lift more. In a message dated 5/14/2006 2:38:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, chrishazlitt@yahoo.com writes: I like it's performance but if it was half way between that and a 801 I would be happier, but I am sure at a cost to take off run if it were. One of the things which bothers me about it is how low to the ground it is, especially the prop. The Slepcev Storch is starting to appeal to me due to being so far off the ground. If only it had flapperons and a little more high end speed! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:52 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pretend you have two sets of wings, the standard CH 701 and the Pegastol --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Based on one thing that I follow as fact since my first project 20 years ago: "In any airplane you build, only add simplicity and lightness..." I will keep the CH 701. wings hands off I have only about 25 hrs flying my 701 and realy happy with it 87 MPH cruise indicated @ 5,100 rpm Warp Drive Practicing to land it short, a step at a time so I dont brake it :-) I will also like to see some first hand facts about the Pegastol... only read and heard "someone told me in a flyin" facts of the Pegstol wing, sorry. Nothing against or in favor from my side. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S Flying from Chapala, Mexico. PS. I think Mr Heintz is the Master of Simplicty and Lighness in aluminum airplane building. Christopher Hazlitt wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Christopher Hazlitt Pretend you have two sets of wings, the standard CH 701 and the Pegastol, both are perfect and ready to instal... which would you choose? Any real world numbers of performance between the two wings? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:06 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Geoff, You're right, those rivets would be hard to put on the inside, but they don't get so close as to make contact with my bungees so I put the rivets in from the outside. They just don't make the contact with the bungees you're worried about. (see link) http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/steer-rod-air-barrier-2.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/subaruengine/full/mount-torqued.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/subaruengine/full/dualfuelconnection2.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/subaruengine/full/pump&gascolator.gif Wish I had better pictures to offer, but the bungee is pulled around the gear strut to go over the top tube and in closing on that smaller radius, it's drawn in toward the strut away from the rivets. I've had to inspect this area during annuals twice now and cannot report any contact in that area. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Geoff Heap wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" > >Hey guys I've just hit an unexpected problem. Two channel doublers are riveted to the vertical lower channel on the firewall. One on each side. They are to support the bungee pin for the nose strut. Because the bungee sits so close, the plans call for the rivets to be pulled from the inside so as to have the dome head near the bungee. The 8 rivets close the fwd edge are a bit tight but O.K. The other 8 rivets are much deeper in and I cannot get a rivet gun or a hand puller in there. How did you do it. The photo guide shows that somebody at Zenith did it. I can shoot the rivets from the outside easy but they really are two close to the bungee for my comfort. Thanks guys........Geoff > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:19 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel From: "Geoff Heap" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" OK Larry, if you say so. Thanks pal. By the way. You opened a can of worms. Now I want to know how you fabbed the air barrier on the steering rod slots. Would you like to share that please and thanks again for responding so quick. I'm gonna finish shooting those rivets now. Thought I'd have to wait 'till Monday for an answer.....Geoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34584#34584 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:49 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Best landing of my life! From: "lgingell" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" Great news Jack! Regarding the flaps, I swapped out my trim tab for the new longer one. Didn't need to move the servo, so it was quite quick. Also, I use less than half the flap travel (if at all). Let us know about your cooling mods when you get it stabilized. Cheers, ..lance -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34585#34585 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:07 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pretend you have two sets of wings, the standard CH 701 and the Pegastol --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Hi Gary, Do you have some kind of AOA or LRI to help you land at minimum speed? Paul XL wings do not archive >Practicing to land it short, a step at a time so I dont brake it :-) > - ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:31 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Look in the photo-share for the Zenith list for shots of various designs for the baffles (including Larry's). Look around Dec 11th, 2005 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/zenith-list.html#Top -- Craig ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:07 PM PST US From: Brad Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Tail Kit --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brad Thanks for all the inquires into this kit, however it ended up selling this afternoon. Hopefully I will be able to get restarted on one of these models within a few years. Thanks. Brad On Sun May 14 8:51 , Brad sent: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brad brad.2@beakon.net> > > >I have a complete 601XL Tail Kit (in crate) that I need to get out due to a near >future move. Includes a complete set of plans and all of the required tools. If >anyone is interested let me know. Located in Florida but will assist with freight >shipment if needed. Asking $1350. Thanks. Brad > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:32 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Zenith-List: Matco wheel bearings --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Just wanting to see if anyone else has had to replace wheel bearings in the Matco MH6BD.75 wheel assembly as used on the 701. Mainly was wondering if the bearings are something that can be picked up from a typical bearing supply company, or whether this is a part made exclusively for Matco. OD looks to be 1 5/8" and fits on a 3/4" axle. Also have some confusion as to the current part number of the bearing. I've managed to come up with 4 different variations of a basic part number, what I think I'm reading on my existing bearings (can't find my magnifying glass to be sure), one poor quality .jpg on the Matco site, and 2 different numbers on a friends wheel assembly drawing. Wheel made strange noises while taxiing yesterday and today, but was not locking up. Pulled the wheel off this afternoon and the inner bearing most defintely has some rough spots. Got to get it back together by Sat. so can go to a local fly-in. Thanks Mike Sinclair ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:00 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Matco wheel bearings From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Bearings are never made specifically for a purpose and I have yet to find one I could not pick up at the local supplier. There are usually several different manufacturers (all with different part numbers) that are the same bearing. The good news is they all know what each others numbers are. Not sure for the 701 but the number for the 601 beaarings are 1623RS They look to be the same size as the one your describing Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Matco wheel bearings --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Just wanting to see if anyone else has had to replace wheel bearings in the Matco MH6BD.75 wheel assembly as used on the 701. Mainly was wondering if the bearings are something that can be picked up from a typical bearing supply company, or whether this is a part made exclusively for Matco. OD looks to be 1 5/8" and fits on a 3/4" axle. Also have some confusion as to the current part number of the bearing. I've managed to come up with 4 different variations of a basic part number, what I think I'm reading on my existing bearings (can't find my magnifying glass to be sure), one poor quality .jpg on the Matco site, and 2 different numbers on a friends wheel assembly drawing. Wheel made strange noises while taxiing yesterday and today, but was not locking up. Pulled the wheel off this afternoon and the inner bearing most defintely has some rough spots. Got to get it back together by Sat. so can go to a local fly-in. Thanks Mike Sinclair ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:55 PM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Best landing of my life! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" Lance- Hope you don't mind if I sneak in to your conversation. I am considering doing the same thing regarding the larger trim tab. I am just finishing up major repairs to my XL and your note was very timely. I'd appreciate it if you could give me any additional info regarding the swap you can. I have downloaded the instructions, but haven't ordered the parts yet. Specifically- Is it possible to do the switch leaving the horizontal stablizer on the plane? Al Young XL-3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: "lgingell" Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 4:01 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Best landing of my life! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" > > Great news Jack! > > Regarding the flaps, I swapped out my trim tab for the new longer one. > Didn't need to move the servo, so it was quite quick. > > Also, I use less than half the flap travel (if at all). > > Let us know about your cooling mods when you get it stabilized. > > Cheers, > ..lance > > -------- > Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 > http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34585#34585 > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:23 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 riveter access problem on firewall vert lower channel --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Geoff, You see two barriers on the pedal side of the firewall that are essentially a .040 sheet aluminum cage front and rear of a slider that has a grommet that fits over the steering rod. Not hard to make. You bolt top and bottom to the firewall and floor and place sealant on the edges of the cage mating with the firewall. The slider has enough up and down motion available to make travel of the nose gear and side to side motion to account for the steering rod end radius motion, 1/4" each side, approx 3" up and 1" down. The thickness of the slider is .032 and the cage center pattern is .040. None of the air leaks past the grommet or the slider such that it's can be heard of felt anywhere. I think it works fine at below freezing. See links for front and back views. http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/steer-rod-air-barrier.gif http://www.macsmachine.com/images/controllinkages/full/steer-rod-air-barrier-2.gif Larry Geoff Heap wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Geoff Heap" > >OK Larry, if you say so. Thanks pal. By the way. You opened a can of worms. Now I want to know how you fabbed the air barrier on the steering rod slots. Would you like to share that please and thanks again for responding so quick. I'm gonna finish shooting those rivets now. Thought I'd have to wait 'till Monday for an answer.....Geoff > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34584#34584 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:26 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Best landing of my life! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" So you left the servo between the two inboard ribs instead of moving it just outboard of the center rib (as shown in the plans for the longer trim tab)? No problems with the servo moving the longer tab from there? -- Craig ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:29 PM PST US From: Christopher Hazlitt Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Pretend you have two sets of wings, the standard CH 701 and the Pegastol --> Zenith-List message posted by: Christopher Hazlitt Thanks everyone, I saw a 701 for the first time yesterday and wow, is it low to the ground. The underside of the wing just comes to the top of my shoulder. I had an impression it was a bit taller. I see a version on the zenith web site where the landing gear had been lengthened which looks much better and is far less scary for off field landings. Here in Alaska there are lots of nice long relatively smooth places to land but that prop is too close to the ground for comfort. Looking at the 3/4 Storch replicas now. Chris, Palmer, AK Gary Gower wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Based on one thing that I follow as fact since my first project 20 years ago: "In any airplane you build, only add simplicity and lightness..." I will keep the CH 701. wings hands off I have only about 25 hrs flying my 701 and realy happy with it 87 MPH cruise indicated @ 5,100 rpm Warp Drive Practicing to land it short, a step at a time so I dont brake it :-) I will also like to see some first hand facts about the Pegastol... only read and heard "someone told me in a flyin" facts of the Pegstol wing, sorry. Nothing against or in favor from my side. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S Flying from Chapala, Mexico. PS. I think Mr Heintz is the Master of Simplicty and Lighness in aluminum airplane building. Christopher Hazlitt wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Christopher Hazlitt Pretend you have two sets of wings, the standard CH 701 and the Pegastol, both are perfect and ready to instal... which would you choose? Any real world numbers of performance between the two wings? --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:55 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine choices for CH701. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower My 912S in a 701 handles perfectly strips up to 7,200 (flown off one in a cool morning, because flying back form a week end trip) with no problem. I read someplace that the 914 Turbo was too big (powerfull) for the 701, so first ask ZAC for advise. The Corvair is a little past the upper weight limit for an engine in the 701, but in a few weeks WW will build a test airplane (701) for a Corvair, so probably when you have your airplane ready for the engine (in about a year) you can choose betwen the 912S and the Corvair... Just my .02 centavos. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S Flying from Chapala, Mexico (4,997 ASL). Bill Howerton wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" John, I also mlive in Colorado, in my case at 6800 feet (Meadowlake - 00V) and I'm using a Corvair ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Engine choices for CH701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JohnDRead@aol.com > > I live in Colorado at 7200 feet elevation, I will be flying off grass. > There > are many 10,000 foot days during the Summer. > > Question - which engine would be best for this application, Jabiru > 3300, > Jabiru 2200, Rotax 912m, Rotax 914, O235, turbine? > > Regards, John Read > > do not archive > --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.