---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/15/06: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:16 AM - CH701 nose gear pipe travel distance (Jari Kaija) 2. 08:28 AM - Re: Engine choices for CH701. (John Marzulli) 3. 09:04 AM - Re: Engine choices for CH701. (jim) 4. 09:45 AM - Re: Engine choices for CH701. (doug kandle) 5. 10:25 AM - Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? (Michael Valentine) 6. 11:12 AM - Re: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? (Paul Mulwitz) 7. 11:22 AM - Re: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead - NOT (N5SL) 8. 11:25 AM - Re: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 9. 12:56 PM - Re: CH701 nose gear pipe travel distance (Jari Kaija) 10. 01:08 PM - Re: Matco wheel bearings (Mike Sinclair) 11. 01:26 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? () 12. 01:58 PM - Zenith Aircraft Corvair Day (Erase Now if the C-word offends you) (N5SL) 13. 03:04 PM - Re: link for "new " trim tab drawing (Jack Russell) 14. 03:54 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? (Bill Naumuk) 15. 03:55 PM - Re: link for "new " trim tab drawing (george may) 16. 04:41 PM - Re: link for "new " trim tab drawing (Paul Mulwitz) 17. 05:13 PM - Zodiac XL Wheel Pants (Tim Juhl) 18. 05:18 PM - Re: Engine choices for CH701. (Keith Ashcraft) 19. 05:43 PM - CH-801 project for sale (Jeff & Evelyn Green) 20. 08:51 PM - Re: Zodiac XL Wheel Pants (bryanmmartin@comcast.net) 21. 10:39 PM - Re: Engine choices for CH701. (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:42 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 nose gear pipe travel distance --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" What is the maximum (normal flight situation) travell distance for nose gear pipe. What I noticed, older version of SP drawings has narrower channel, when there is enough room for rod ends in any situation. With these new pictures, what I've used with firewall, channel's edges are flush with steering rod holes. When nose gear comes too up, rod ends will hit channel edges+channel doublers. IF travell distance is too long, I have to cut out steering bolts and = weld extra pipe to get bolt distance (original 110mm) much wider :-( ---------------------------------- http://www.jarikaija.com http://www.project-ch701.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:15 AM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine choices for CH701. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Marzulli" While we are talking about the Rotax 912, can anyone explain the basic differences between the certified and non-certified versions of the engine? I was thinkin about using the Jabiru for my 701 just because no restriction against night time flight exists for the Jabiru. John in Seattle On 5/14/06, Gary Gower wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > My 912S in a 701 handles perfectly strips up to 7,200 (flown off one i= n > a cool morning, because flying back form a week end trip) with no proble= m. > > I read someplace that the 914 Turbo was too big (powerfull) for the 701= , > so first ask ZAC for advise. > > The Corvair is a little past the upper weight limit for an engine in th= e > 701, but in a few weeks WW will build a test airplane (701) for a Corvair= , > so probably when you have your airplane ready for the engine (in about a > year) you can choose betwen the 912S and the Corvair... > > Just my .02 centavos. > > Saludos > Gary Gower > 701 912S > Flying from Chapala, Mexico (4,997 ASL). > > Bill Howerton wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" > > John, I also mlive in Colorado, in my case at 6800 feet (Meadowlake - 00V= ) > and I'm using a Corvair > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 1:42 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Engine choices for CH701 > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JohnDRead@aol.com > > > > I live in Colorado at 7200 feet elevation, I will be flying off grass. > > There > > are many 10,000 foot days during the Summer. > > > > Question - which engine would be best for this application, Jabiru > > 3300, > > Jabiru 2200, Rotax 912m, Rotax 914, O235, turbine? > > > > Regards, John Read > > > > do not archive > > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and sav= e > big. > > = = = = > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:16 AM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine choices for CH701. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jim" I was told that there is no physical difference between the certified and non-certified 912 engines. The certified engines receive many more inspections as they go down the production line to make sure that all tolerances are exactly where they ought to be. Basically the $5000 difference in cost is to pay for the greater number of inspections. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes Sky Bryce Airport - Basye, VA www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 Jim@Pellien.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "John Marzulli" >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Marzulli" > >While we are talking about the Rotax 912, can anyone explain the basic >differences between the certified and non-certified versions of the engine? > >I was thinkin about using the Jabiru for my 701 just because no restriction >against night time flight exists for the Jabiru. > > >John in Seattle > >On 5/14/06, Gary Gower wrote: >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower >> >> My 912S in a 701 handles perfectly strips up to 7,200 (flown off one i= >n >> a cool morning, because flying back form a week end trip) with no proble= >m. >> >> I read someplace that the 914 Turbo was too big (powerfull) for the 701= >, >> so first ask ZAC for advise. >> >> The Corvair is a little past the upper weight limit for an engine in th= >e >> 701, but in a few weeks WW will build a test airplane (701) for a Corvair= >, >> so probably when you have your airplane ready for the engine (in about a >> year) you can choose betwen the 912S and the Corvair... >> >> Just my .02 centavos. >> >> Saludos >> Gary Gower >> 701 912S >> Flying from Chapala, Mexico (4,997 ASL). >> >> Bill Howerton wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" >> >> John, I also mlive in Colorado, in my case at 6800 feet (Meadowlake - 00V= >) >> and I'm using a Corvair >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 1:42 PM >> Subject: Zenith-List: Engine choices for CH701 >> >> >> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JohnDRead@aol.com >> > >> > I live in Colorado at 7200 feet elevation, I will be flying off grass. >> > There >> > are many 10,000 foot days during the Summer. >> > >> > Question - which engine would be best for this application, Jabiru >> > 3300, >> > Jabiru 2200, Rotax 912m, Rotax 914, O235, turbine? >> > >> > Regards, John Read >> > >> > do not archive >> > >> >> --------------------------------- >> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and sav= >e >> big. >> >> >> >= > >= > >= > >= > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.pellien.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:29 AM PST US From: doug kandle Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine choices for CH701. --> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle I have chosen the Jabiru 2200 for the following reasons. 1) It has no gear reduction so it will windmill. I got the extra 2 fuel tanks and the only way to get all of the fuel from the aux tanks is to run them dry. On a reduction geared engine the starter becomes a required component for continued flight. (I've seen a Rotax windmill, but only at a speed beyond VNE for the 701) 2) The Rotax requires high tech lubricants and coolant. This suggests to me that it is operating at the limits of some components. 3) while the Rotax reduction system is probably very robust, it does complicate the system (more required parts). 4) An all air cooled engine has no coolant to leak, no radiator, no hoses; all of which must operate to keep the engine running. I would like the extra 15 HP that the 912 puts out, but not at the cost of all those extra components that must operate for the engine to continue running. In aviation, the "keep it simple rule" rules. > > > > > > Question - which engine would be best for this application, Jabiru > > > 3300, > > > Jabiru 2200, Rotax 912m, Rotax 914, O235, turbine? > > > do not archive Doug Kandle CH701 Boise ID All Airfoils complete, working on fuselage Jabiru 2200 From complete kit ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:14 AM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Zenith-List: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" Listers - After only the tail feathers and half a wing, my Harbor Freight pneumatic riveter is giving me trouble. It doesn't want to release the rivet stems any more. If I tap the stem with a hammer, it eventually releases the jaws and I can hear a bit more air release as well. I know people just use them until they die, so is this the end or is there some place to oil/lube it a bit. Thanks, Michael Valentine do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:15 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz This kind of behavior probably indicates a problem with the screw-in nose piece. If it is not screwed in all the way it will do exactly what you described. If nothing else works you might try a different nose piece and see what happens. Paul XL wings At 10:22 AM 5/15/2006, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" > >Listers - > >After only the tail feathers and half a wing, my Harbor Freight pneumatic >riveter is giving me trouble. It doesn't want to release the rivet stems >any more. If I tap the stem with a hammer, it eventually releases the jaws >and I can hear a bit more air release as well. > >I know people just use them until they die, so is this the end or is there >some place to oil/lube it a bit. > >Thanks, Michael Valentine > >do not archive > > - ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:41 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead - NOT --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Michael: I've used one for almost an entire build. This happened to me once. Just take off the nose and you will see some adjustment nuts. Watch the way it came apart and remove the invading stem, then fiddle with the adjustment, then put it back together. It will work fine once you get it adjusted properly. Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com --- Michael Valentine wrote: > Listers - > > After only the tail feathers and half a wing, my > Harbor Freight pneumatic > riveter is giving me trouble. __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:12 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I believe HF has a 1 year warranty on pneumatic tools...Take it back and keep your concave rivet heads. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Valentine Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" --> Listers - After only the tail feathers and half a wing, my Harbor Freight pneumatic riveter is giving me trouble. It doesn't want to release the rivet stems any more. If I tap the stem with a hammer, it eventually releases the jaws and I can hear a bit more air release as well. I know people just use them until they die, so is this the end or is there some place to oil/lube it a bit. Thanks, Michael Valentine do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:45 PM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 nose gear pipe travel distance --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > IF travell distance is too long, I have to cut out steering bolts and... Problem solved. I replaced a "steering tube", and it have now 120mm bolt distance... ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:34 PM PST US From: Mike Sinclair Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Matco wheel bearings --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair Thanks for the info Frank. Ran into a local bearing supply in Wichita this morning. Got the bearing I needed for $12, wheel is back together, plane is on it's own feet, and I'm ready for a fly-in this weekend. Turns out the replacement bearing I needed had a 1630RS part number and was made in China rather than Japan as the original was marked. Mike "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Bearings are never made specifically for a purpose and I have yet to > find one I could not pick up at the local supplier. > > There are usually several different manufacturers (all with different > part numbers) that are the same bearing. > > The good news is they all know what each others numbers are. > > Not sure for the 701 but the number for the 601 beaarings are 1623RS > They look to be the same size as the one your describing > > Frank ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:00 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? Cc: Paul Mulwitz --> Zenith-List message posted by: I used one to build my first ultralight. A few months later when I was doing some after market mods, the rivetter started failing to release when I released the trigger. I found that I had been remiss by not putting a few drops of oil in the air inlet at every use. I oiled it, let it sit a couple of days to let the oil invade everywhere inside, and it works fine again. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / wings ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:23 PM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Aircraft Corvair Day (Erase Now if the C-word offends you) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Zenith Aircraft Builders and Would-be Builders: I just got an email from Zenith Aircraft advertising Corvair Day on Saturday, May 20th starting at 9AM. Here's a link to ZAC's site: http://www.zenithair.com/news/corvair-day.html I've encouraged many would-be builders to attend the rudder workshop in the past because it's an opportunity you should not miss. Another opportunity has presented itself that would be worth the trip to ZAC's factory this weekend. I would encourage those who have not selected an engine and those considering the Corvair to make the trip to Mexico, MO to see how a Corvair engine can be mounted on a 601 or a 701 airframe. May all your rivet stems fall freely, Scott Laughlin 601XL / Corvair www.cooknwithgas.com working on BRS harness cover-up __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:12 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: link for "new " trim tab drawing --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Interesting the Zac has come up with the longer trim tab but does anyone think there would be a problem with just riveting an extension plate to the bottom of the exsisting trim tab? Jack Big Gee wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Big Gee http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-t-6.pdf List-- above is the link for drawing for the new (larger) trim tab. Fritz --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:08 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Mike- Take it back to HF and get a new one. Ran into the same trouble with one of their hand riveters. Jaws grip too tightly. No hassle exchange in my case. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Valentine" Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 1:22 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Harbor Freight Riveter Dead? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" > > > Listers - > > After only the tail feathers and half a wing, my Harbor Freight pneumatic > riveter is giving me trouble. It doesn't want to release the rivet stems > any more. If I tap the stem with a hammer, it eventually releases the > jaws > and I can hear a bit more air release as well. > > I know people just use them until they die, so is this the end or is there > some place to oil/lube it a bit. > > Thanks, Michael Valentine > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:36 PM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: link for "new " trim tab drawing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" Not as elegant, but it should work. I had mine completed with the small tab but decided to change to the larger one. It is not that difficult to modify the elevator to the larger tab if you are thinking about it. George May 601xl 912s-----at the hanger for assembly >From: Jack Russell >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: link for "new " trim tab drawing >Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 14:58:36 -0700 (PDT) > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell > >Interesting the Zac has come up with the longer trim tab but does anyone >think there would be a problem with just riveting an extension plate to the >bottom of the exsisting trim tab? Jack > >Big Gee wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: >Big Gee > >http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/6-t-6.pdf >List-- above is the link for drawing for the new (larger) trim tab. >Fritz > > >--------------------------------- >How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. > > _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:03 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: link for "new " trim tab drawing --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I think it would be ugly by comparison. I doubt there would be any significant difference in forces needed or applied to the main control surface if the surface area is the same. Paul XL wings do not archive At 02:58 PM 5/15/2006, you wrote: >Interesting the Zac has come up with the longer trim tab but does >anyone think there would be a problem with just riveting an >extension plate to the bottom of the exsisting trim tab? Jack ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:46 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL Wheel Pants From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" A question for those who are already flying their XL. Do the factory wheel pants do anything to improve the cruise speed of the aircraft or are they only cosmetic? Tim Kit due this month Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34787#34787 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:30 PM PST US From: Keith Ashcraft Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine choices for CH701. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft Hello All, Here is a link to the Zenith site, where somebody in New Zealand has fit a Corvair onto a 701 Link to pictures of Photo album 82 http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo82.html Same link to the custom engine pages http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo18a.html#corvair Keith 701 -- scratch building N 38.9947 W105.1305 Alt. 9,100' *********************************************************************************** doug kandle wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: doug kandle > >I have chosen the Jabiru 2200 for the following reasons. >1) It has no gear reduction so it will windmill. I got the extra 2 >fuel tanks and the only way to get all of the fuel from the aux tanks >is to run them dry. On a reduction geared engine the starter becomes >a required component for continued flight. (I've seen a Rotax >windmill, but only at a speed beyond VNE for the 701) >2) The Rotax requires high tech lubricants and coolant. This >suggests to me that it is operating at the limits of some components. >3) while the Rotax reduction system is probably very robust, it does >complicate the system (more required parts). >4) An all air cooled engine has no coolant to leak, no radiator, no >hoses; all of which must operate to keep the engine running. > >I would like the extra 15 HP that the 912 puts out, but not at the >cost of all those extra components that must operate for the engine >to continue running. In aviation, the "keep it simple rule" rules. > > > > >>>>Question - which engine would be best for this application, Jabiru >>>>3300, >>>>Jabiru 2200, Rotax 912m, Rotax 914, O235, turbine? >>>> >>>> >>>> > > >do not archive > > >Doug Kandle >CH701 >Boise ID >All Airfoils complete, working on fuselage >Jabiru 2200 > From complete kit > > > > > > > > > -- ************************************* *Keith Ashcraft* ITT Industries Advanced Engineering & Sciences 5009 Centennial Blvd. Colorado Springs, CO 80919 (719) 599-1787 -- work (719) 332-4364 -- cell keith.ashcraft@itt.com ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:39 PM PST US From: "Jeff & Evelyn Green" Subject: Zenith-List: CH-801 project for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff & Evelyn Green" I've now posted my CH-801 STOL project on Barnstormers.com. You may see = my ad under the Experimental/Zenair catagory. Email me directly if you = have any questions. Thanks for the great response from my initial post = on this list! Jeff do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:30 PM PST US From: bryanmmartin@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL Wheel Pants --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net They'll give you about 5 or 6 extra knots. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Tim Juhl" > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > > A question for those who are already flying their XL. Do the factory wheel > pants do anything to improve the cruise speed of the aircraft or are they only > cosmetic? > > Tim > Kit due this month > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:10 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine choices for CH701. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Cant advise, here in Mexico no night flying permited for single engine (piston) airplanes and/or ultralights. Dont know if single turboprop is permited... Saludos Gary Gower. Flying from Chapala, Mexico... until sunset. John Marzulli wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Marzulli" While we are talking about the Rotax 912, can anyone explain the basic differences between the certified and non-certified versions of the engine? I was thinkin about using the Jabiru for my 701 just because no restriction against night time flight exists for the Jabiru. John in Seattle On 5/14/06, Gary Gower wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > My 912S in a 701 handles perfectly strips up to 7,200 (flown off one i= n > a cool morning, because flying back form a week end trip) with no proble= m. > > I read someplace that the 914 Turbo was too big (powerfull) for the 701= , > so first ask ZAC for advise. > > The Corvair is a little past the upper weight limit for an engine in th= e > 701, but in a few weeks WW will build a test airplane (701) for a Corvair= , > so probably when you have your airplane ready for the engine (in about a > year) you can choose betwen the 912S and the Corvair... > > Just my .02 centavos. > > Saludos > Gary Gower > 701 912S > Flying from Chapala, Mexico (4,997 ASL). > > Bill Howerton wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" > > John, I also mlive in Colorado, in my case at 6800 feet (Meadowlake - 00V= ) > and I'm using a Corvair > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 1:42 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Engine choices for CH701 > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JohnDRead@aol.com > > > > I live in Colorado at 7200 feet elevation, I will be flying off grass. > > There > > are many 10,000 foot days during the Summer. > > > > Question - which engine would be best for this application, Jabiru > > 3300, > > Jabiru 2200, Rotax 912m, Rotax 914, O235, turbine? > > > > Regards, John Read > > > > do not archive > > --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.