---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/23/06: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:51 AM - Re: Re: Torque value AN fuel fittings / Sealant NPT threads (Thilo Kind) 2. 04:21 AM - CH701 (rhartwig11@juno.com) 3. 06:01 AM - Re: paint prop tips? (Larry) 4. 06:05 AM - Wing Incidence (george may) 5. 06:20 AM - Re: paint prop tips? (n801bh@netzero.com) 6. 08:38 AM - Re: Wing Incidence (Craig Payne) 7. 11:00 AM - Re: Air tools & Compressor/ hp. vs psi. (John Bolding) 8. 04:39 PM - Notations on scratch build plans (David Mikesell) 9. 04:50 PM - "Stupid Attack" is over (David Mikesell) 10. 05:10 PM - DL (George Swinford) 11. 05:21 PM - Re: "Stupid Attack" is over (Ron Culver) 12. 05:21 PM - Re: Notations on scratch build plans (Ron Culver) 13. 06:15 PM - Re: paint prop tips? (Larry) 14. 06:41 PM - Developed Length vs Reality (Tom and Bren) 15. 07:16 PM - Re: Rotax 912 'thrust'? (Tim & Diane Shankland) 16. 07:26 PM - Filliform Corrosion (Michael Valentine) 17. 07:55 PM - Re: Filliform Corrosion (Dave Ruddiman) 18. 09:02 PM - Re: Zenith Aircraft Corvair Day (Erase Now if the C-word offends (Dave Thompson) 19. 11:39 PM - Re: Notations on scratch build plans (martyn@flight.co.za) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:22 AM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Torque value AN fuel fittings / Sealant NPT threads --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" HI Paul, sorry, my mistake. I thought, y'all were talking abaout the flange fittings. On the threaed AN fittings I fully agree with you: the compound is the right stuff to use. Happy building Thilo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:22 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Torque value AN fuel fittings / Sealant NPT threads > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > Hi Thilo, > > I agree with you. I was speaking about the threaded components. It > is on the threads that I use the thread compound. Alas, AN fittings > describes a huge selection of different items. > > Paul > XL wings > > At 09:19 AM 5/22/2006, you wrote: > >just read an article about the flanged fittings. It said... do not use any > >sealing compound in order to ensure metal to metal contact of the flange.... > >torque: finger-tighten the nut and give it approx. 1/4 more turn with a > >wrench. > > - > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:10 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 From: rhartwig11@juno.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: rhartwig11@juno.com I am like a kid at Christmas......just got home from Missouri with a brand new CH701 kit!!!! Getting a Red Ryder BB gun when I was 8 years old did not thrill me more! It is amazing how small a 701 looks in the back of a full size Chevy van. Two kits would have fit. W. Wynne's event on Saturday was great--I will be watching carefully the development of his Corvair installation for the 701. I have not yet decided what will power mine. We stayed in Mexico, MO over the weekend and I was at the factory at 7:00 AM on Monday to load the kit. The Zenith crew and the Wynne bunch are great people to do business with. They have time for everyone and will thoroughly answer all questions. Well.....please excuse me, I have an airplane to build. do not archive Rich Hartwig Waunakee, WI rhartwig11@juno.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:33 AM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: paint prop tips? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" I really think it's a recommendation not a requirement. Like I said I can't find a FAR on it. It is a good recommendation, but it definitely changes your balance unless you can get the exact amount paint on each blade. I had to have mine re-balanced. But, you sure can see them while spinning. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Moody II" Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:48 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: paint prop tips? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" > > I've been on hand for two Excalibur initial airworthiness inspections... > neither had the prop tips painted... both were certified without any > hassle > about painting the tips..... both of us yell "Clear Prop!" before start > up... neither of us have hit anything or anyone with the prop. Well > actually > my prop hit a home run with the tennis ball as it blew off the exhaust at > start up...... twice so far. Found it both times after a bit of a search. > No > charges were pressed. Four runs batted in. > > Ed Moody II > Rayne, LA > N4568B "Bumble-Ri" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:41 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: paint prop tips? > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" >> >> BlankWhat's the deal about painting prop tips? I thought it was >> required. It is on the EAA check list. I asked IVOPROP about it and >> they said not to do it, it would affect the balance. I can't find a FAR >> about it. When I had my gyro inspected, the DAR told me to paint them. >> >> "Are the propeller tips painted for visibility?" That's off the EAA >> check list. >> >> Do we or don't we? Anyone know for sure? >> >> >> Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:11 AM PST US From: "george may" Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Incidence --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" I'm trying to set the wing incidence and would like to see the latest information on it. I understand that the 2005 issue of page 6-S-3 has more detailed information than my 2004 issue. Does anyone know if/where this sheet is located on the Zenith site? I checked but can up empty. Any help would be appreciated Thanks George May 601XL 912s _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:19 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: paint prop tips? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" I can say on my Ivo props they have a leading edge protection made from stainless. That surface shows up REAL well while the prop is spinning. F WIW, the DAR that blessed my plane didn't mention I needed to paint my t ips. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Larry" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" BlankWhat's the deal about painting prop tips? I thought it was required. It is on the EAA check list. I asked IVOPROP about it and they said not to do it, it would affect the balance. I can't find a FAR about it. When I had my gyro inspected, the DAR told me to paint them. "Are the propeller tips painted for visibility?" That's off the EAA check list. Do we or don't we? Anyone know for sure? Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com ======================= ========== ======================= ========== ======================= ========== ======================= ==========

I can say on my Ivo props they have a leading edge protection m ade from stainless. That surface shows up REAL well while the prop is sp inning. FWIW, the DAR that blessed my plane didn't mention I needed to p aint my tips.

 

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net> wrote :
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lar ry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>

BlankWhat's the d eal about painting prop tips?  I thou ght it was 
required.  It is on&nb sp;the EAA check list.  I asked IVOPR OP about it and 
they said not to& nbsp;do it, it would affect the balance.&n bsp; I can't find a FAR 
about it.   When I had my gyro inspected,  the DAR told me to paint them.

"Are  the propeller tips painted for visibility ?"  That's off the EAA 
check list .

Do we or don't we?  Anyone k now for sure?

 
Larry Martin, www.sky ======================= =======================
======================= ======================= sp;     - List Contribution Web& nbsp;           & nbsp;           & ======================= ======================= ==



 
 
 



________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:59 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing Incidence --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I just received the latest plans. Sheet 6-S-3 is dated 3/06 and looks fairly different than the one dated 3/04. The wooden template is not shown. There is a diagram showing the position of the wing referenced to the longeron. The leading edge is 400 mm down from the longeron, the spar web 245 mm and the aft edge of the top skin 325 mm. It shows the plane of the spar at 9 degrees from a line perpendicular to the longeron. In general I think $50 for the latest plans is a good investment. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of george may Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Incidence --> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" I'm trying to set the wing incidence and would like to see the latest information on it. I understand that the 2005 issue of page 6-S-3 has more detailed information than my 2004 issue. Does anyone know if/where this sheet is located on the Zenith site? I checked but can up empty. Any help would be appreciated Thanks George May 601XL 912s _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:00:32 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Air tools & Compressor/ hp. vs psi. From: "John Bolding" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" This is one of those subjects that has a LOT of potential for some serious BS to be spread around (from the compressor sellers, not the list members) Try this website,http://www.eatoncompressor.com/page/page/518643.htm open up one of the bare pump descriptions and you will find out all you ever wanted to know about hp/amps/cfm/pressure. I sold air compressors for a living for over 30 yrs and this company has about the best value in the country on air compressors. That is if you are looking for a quality tool. LOW&SLOW John Bolding Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36042#36042 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:32 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Zenith-List: Notations on scratch build plans --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" I worked on a CH601 kit before, but the scratch building plans have a notation I can't figure out. I am probably just having a "stupid" attack. I know T is thickness, L is length but what is DL? David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:44 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Zenith-List: "Stupid Attack" is over --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" DL, developed length. The size of the flat part before bending. I knew it would come back to me. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:15 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: DL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" David Mikesell asks "...what is DL? Does it refer to a part that is to be bent up? If so, it may be developed length, the length of the flat pattern, taking into account the bend allowance. Give us more information, Dave. George Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:16 PM PST US From: "Ron Culver" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: "Stupid Attack" is over --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" Hmm before or after??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Mikesell" Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Zenith-List: "Stupid Attack" is over > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" > > > DL, developed length. The size of the flat part before bending. I knew > it would come back to me. > > David Mikesell > 23597 N. Hwy 99 > Acampo, CA 95220 > 209-609-8774 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:16 PM PST US From: "Ron Culver" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Notations on scratch build plans --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Culver" DL= developed length which is the length of the finished part ..If I am wrong someone will surely tell us so..8^). Ron Culver Scratch 701 builder.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Mikesell" Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Notations on scratch build plans > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" > > > I worked on a CH601 kit before, but the scratch building plans have a > notation I can't figure out. I am probably just having a "stupid" > attack. I know T is thickness, L is length but what is DL? > > David Mikesell > 23597 N. Hwy 99 > Acampo, CA 95220 > 209-609-8774 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:31 PM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: paint prop tips? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" I'm thinking about ordering an IVOPROP, any advise? Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:14 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: paint prop tips? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" > > > I can say on my Ivo props they have a leading edge protection made from > stainless. That surface shows up REAL well while the prop is spinning. F > WIW, the DAR that blessed my plane didn't mention I needed to paint my t > ips. > > > do not archive > > > Ben Haas > N801BH > www.haaspowerair.com > > -- "Larry" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" > > BlankWhat's the deal about painting prop tips? I thought it was > > required. It is on the EAA check list. I asked IVOPROP about it and > > they said not to do it, it would affect the balance. I can't find a FAR > > > about it. When I had my gyro inspected, the DAR told me to paint them. > > "Are the propeller tips painted for visibility?" That's off the EAA > > check list. > > Do we or don't we? Anyone know for sure? > > > Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com > > > ====================== > ========= > > ====================== > ========= > > ====================== > ========= > ====================== > ========= > > >

I can say on my Ivo props they have a leading edge protection m > ade from stainless. That surface shows up REAL well while the prop is sp > inning. FWIW, the DAR that blessed my plane didn't mention I needed to p > aint my tips.

>

 

>

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair > .com

-- "Larry" <lrm01@centurytel.net> wrote > :
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lar > ry" <lrm01@centurytel.net>

BlankWhat's the d > eal about painting prop tips?  I thou > ght it was 
required.  It is on&nb > sp;the EAA check list.  I asked IVOPR > OP about it and 
they said not to& > nbsp;do it, it would affect the balance.&n > bsp; I can't find a FAR 
about it. >   When I had my gyro inspected,  > the DAR told me to paint them.

"Are >  the propeller tips painted for visibility > ?"  That's off the EAA 
check list > .

Do we or don't we?  Anyone k > now for sure?

 
Larry Martin, www.sky > ====================== > =======================
p;the Matronics List Features Navigator to  > ;Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat,&nbs > sp;           &nb > sp;           &nb > sp;           
====================== >           - NEW&n > sp;the All New Matronics Email List Wiki!< > p;           &nbs > p;           &nbs > p;           
> ====================== > ====================== > sp;     - List Contribution Web& > nbsp;           & > nbsp;           & > ====================== > ====================== > ==



 
 
 



ml> > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:03 PM PST US From: Tom and Bren Subject: Zenith-List: Developed Length vs Reality --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tom and Bren Hey, be careful of those Developed Lengths if you're using CNC machinery to fabricate the parts. The lengths listed are no where NEAR what happens to the material on a hydraulic brake. Use standard Bend Deduction calculations when using machinery and you'll be much happier with the way your punched holes line up. The noted Developed Lengths work great for hand forming or a forming block though. FYI... David Mikesell wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" I worked on a CH601 kit before, but the scratch building plans have a notation I can't figure out. I am probably just having a "stupid" attack. I know T is thickness, L is length but what is DL? David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:07 PM PST US From: Tim & Diane Shankland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 'thrust'? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland This won't tell you a lot about the 912 but I did use one of those 400 lb weight your bear scales to check the thrust of my Suburu, 350 lbs at 5000 RPM. That's not maximum horsepower, that's at 5500, but at my first cut for pitch. Tim Shankland Zed Smith wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > >List, > >Has anybody tied a 912-powered craft to a spring scale to determine "thrust" at max RPM? >In digging through my extensive assortment of stuff brought home by a pack rat I found a 0-400 pound spring scale with hooks on both ends........weighs equally well vertical & horizontal. >Obviously there are variables but it might be interesting to know just how much "pull" exists during run-up. > >Idle minds want to know, > >Regards, > >Zed/701/R912/90+%/do not archive > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:52 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Zenith-List: Filliform Corrosion --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" Listers, A few months back, there was a mention of filliform corrosion. I have wing skins that have sat for a couple years and now have light corrosion. When I heavily scuff them up with scotchbrite (green, btw) it takes off the whitish, obvious corrosion. But, when I wipe it down you can still see the shadow of the corrosion. You can see filliform corrosion here http://homepage.mac.com/csteiner/PhotoAlbum9.html and similar pictures posted by Dan Morehouse at Dan's pictures show the shadows in the "Blendex Only" photo. I don't recall from that discussion whether people believed the corrosion was "dead" at that point, or whether one should do more. Dan obviously did more. I don't have Alumiprep or ACF50 (discussed in a post by Jim Weston), though I could obviously pick some up somewhere. I plan on applying Cortec after the preparation, though I was only going to do contact surfaces, not the complete skin. Will the Cortec be sufficient to stop the spread? Note - I am not a perfectionist, I am a builder! If it means the skin needs to be replaced in 20 years instead of 40, and the steps necessary to truly kill the corrosion involves lots of time and chemicals, then I would opt for 20. Any suggestions? Thanks, Michael Valentine BTW, thanks all for the advice on the pneumatic riveter - a few drops of oil did the trick. do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:29 PM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filliform Corrosion --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Michael, It's interesting that you posted this question. I just sent a similar one to the Aeronca group, of which I am also a member. I left my slat and flaperon kit for my 801 unopened and outside. Although covered up, it drew enough dampness to be wet on the metal and the paper that it was wrapped in. This happened in only a month. The metal is grayish and not shinny where the pieces were touching. I thought maybe scotchbrite and either primer or ACF 50 or Corrosion X. I to am interested in other ideas for a solution. Dave in Salem ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Valentine" Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:25 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Filliform Corrosion > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" > > > Listers, > > A few months back, there was a mention of filliform corrosion. I have > wing skins that have sat for a couple years and now have light > corrosion. When I heavily scuff them up with scotchbrite (green, btw) > it takes off the whitish, obvious corrosion. But, when I wipe it down > you can still see the shadow of the corrosion. > > You can see filliform corrosion here > http://homepage.mac.com/csteiner/PhotoAlbum9.html and similar pictures > posted by Dan Morehouse at > > Dan's pictures show the shadows in the "Blendex Only" photo. > > I don't recall from that discussion whether people believed the > corrosion was "dead" at that point, or whether one should do more. > Dan obviously did more. I don't have Alumiprep or ACF50 (discussed in > a post by Jim Weston), though I could obviously pick some up > somewhere. I plan on applying Cortec after the preparation, though I > was only going to do contact surfaces, not the complete skin. Will > the Cortec be sufficient to stop the spread? > > Note - I am not a perfectionist, I am a builder! If it means the skin > needs to be replaced in 20 years instead of 40, and the steps > necessary to truly kill the corrosion involves lots of time and > chemicals, then I would opt for 20. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, Michael Valentine > > BTW, thanks all for the advice on the pneumatic riveter - a few drops > of oil did the trick. > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:48 PM PST US From: "Dave Thompson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Aircraft Corvair Day (Erase Now if the C-word offends --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Thompson" Here! Here! I've met William & crew several times, the first time at Corvair College #5 at Hanford CA, two other times at their hanger. Every time I felt like we were old friends. The first time I was at the hanger, after about an hour, I said that I'd leave so I wouldn't wear out my welcome. William said;" no, stay, let's go to lunch." When we came back, Gus, their test pilot took me for a ride in their silver/blue 601XL taildragger. What a ride! That's just a statement about their friendliness. Their expertise and knowledge speaks for its self when you read through their website. People can say what they want about William & crew. I for one am glad he's there. I like his quote: "I built it with my hand, installed it on my plane and flew it for XXX hours." He makes statements with proof & experience behind them. I don't claim to be any type of aircraft expert! I know I've got a lot to learn. I do know that if I follow his guidelines, I'll have a technically correct proven installation. A smart first time builder (like me) will know their limits, seek out knowledgeable people and follow what has proven to work. That's what I'm trying to do. The price and performance of the Corvair is allowing me back into aviation after 22 years out of currency. Some may say that "The Corvair Authority" sounds arrogant. He's still a down to earth kind of guy. Besides, show me someone that knows more and has more experience with Corvair flight engines (I want to meet him). I think he has worked hard to deserve the title. There are many engines that we have to choose from; some good, some not so good. Everyone has their opinions. That's the glory of a homebuilt aircraft! We all get to choose what we build and what we hang up front. I'm just thankful for people like you guys on this list, and William. I hope to find more friends as I re-enter the aviation world. My best to you all, Dave Thompson dave.thompson@verizon.net Westminster, CA Building a Corvair Engine & hoping for a 601XL Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Notations on scratch build plans From: martyn@flight.co.za --> Zenith-List message posted by: martyn@flight.co.za Hi, it means the determined length! That is to say, the length of the piece in question before it is bent to the shape required. Now to those who have not fallen asleep by now :)My Questionis is this? However that said, on the drawings, the standard L angle's dimensions are given as: On the CH 701 drawings L = 19 mm X A = 19 mm and T = 0.025", with a Dl of 36 mm. Now if you take the L and A and add them (that gives you the flat length), I get 38 mm ?? But on the drawings the DL for the L angle 36mm. Any answers would be appreciated! Regards, DO NOT ARCHIVE > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" > > > I worked on a CH601 kit before, but the scratch building plans have a > notation I can't figure out. I am probably just having a "stupid" > attack. I know T is thickness, L is length but what is DL? > > David Mikesell > 23597 N. Hwy 99 > Acampo, CA 95220 > 209-609-8774 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com > >