Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:02 AM - Mig spatter and other mysteries (roy vickski)
2. 05:48 AM - Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... (steveadams)
3. 06:01 AM - XL spring gear (Dad)
4. 06:38 AM - Re: XL spring gear (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 06:57 AM - Re: XL spring gear (Ron Butterfield)
6. 07:23 AM - Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion) (Condon, Philip M.)
7. 07:24 AM - 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
8. 07:28 AM - Re: XL spring gear (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
9. 08:23 AM - 601 HDS Project (Royer, Michel)
10. 08:23 AM - Re: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts (N5SL)
11. 09:32 AM - Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed (Jim Frisby)
12. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... (LarryMcFarland)
13. 09:56 AM - Re: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts (LarryMcFarland)
14. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
15. 11:21 AM - Re: XL spring gear (kevinbonds)
16. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... (JOHN STARN)
17. 11:53 AM - xl gear (Zed Smith)
18. 11:54 AM - xl gear correction (Zed Smith)
19. 12:09 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
20. 12:21 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: Zodiac 601 HDS and Corvair engine (Bill Naumuk)
21. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Welder experiment (Bill Naumuk)
22. 12:59 PM - Welding aluminum vs. steel ... (Bima, Martin)
23. 01:25 PM - Re: XL spring gear (Craig Moore)
24. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... (JOHN STARN)
25. 03:12 PM - Re: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion) (Noel Loveys)
26. 03:12 PM - Re: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts (Noel Loveys)
27. 03:25 PM - Re: 601 HDS Project (Noel Loveys)
28. 05:21 PM - ----- Thank you Chris H. (Big Gee)
29. 06:19 PM - Spring Gear Material Resources (Tom and Bren Henderson)
30. 07:10 PM - Re: another Prop for sale (gary k)
31. 07:10 PM - Re: Zenith list In Cowl Radiators (Tim & Diane Shankland)
32. 07:39 PM - clearance of rudder cables (Randy)
33. 07:44 PM - Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield (Gary Liming)
34. 07:44 PM - Re: another Prop for sale ()
35. 08:11 PM - Re: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion) (Bryan Martin)
36. 10:37 PM - Re: XL spring gear (Brandon Tucker)
37. 11:32 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
38. 11:36 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Mig spatter and other mysteries |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski <rvickski@yahoo.com>
Try increasing wire speed to decrease spatter. I
notice most beginners with MIG (including yours
truly)tend to weld cold and try to push the puddle too
fast. Ther are many variables with the mig process and
a fair ammount of technique is required for sound
structural welds.
And speaking of "stick welding", a friend of mine owns
a couple of Stinsons, he claims they were "stick"
welded at the factory, some really nice work!! I bet
the person welding those had some practice.
Each type of weld process has its place, it depends
upon the material, its thickness its properties, and
the intended use among other things. A beginner would
do well to search out examples of good work, find out
which process was used and try to duplicate it. Also
find a skilled welding mentor, someone to "critique"
the work, to point out flaws, to demonstrate proper
technique.
At this point a word of caution is in order, heeding
this advise may result in a career change.
So here are the first two things I learned in my new
career.
1. D.L.R.
If it "Don't Look Right" it probably isn't.
2. Too little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
3. Fit-up is everything.
C.H. states in the construction manual that steel can
be gas welded, aluminum should be tig welded and that
the welding should be done by a professional. But what
does he know, he just wrote the book :)
Mostly just my opinion, mostly.
Roy Szarafinski
701 corvair, still at it.
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
I know of 1 builder of a CH640 (FWF same as the 801) who put an IO-540 in his plane.
I believe he had to build his own engine mount. You can check out his website,
and may be able to contact him through the website with any questions.
http://www.madbbs.com/~jpaden/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=37842#37842
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dad <leinad@direcway.com>
Does anyone know if the 601 XL and the 701 use the same spring gear? I've
noticed ACS has offers the 701 gear.
Dan (scratch building XL/Corvair in VA)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: XL spring gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dad <leinad@direcway.com>
>
>Does anyone know if the 601 XL and the 701 use the same spring gear? I've
>noticed ACS has offers the 701 gear.
>Dan (scratch building XL/Corvair in VA)
>
---
If you want to order this part from some supplier, why not order it from ZAC?
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: XL spring gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield <rbutterfield@mebtel.net>
Dad wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dad <leinad@direcway.com>
>
> Does anyone know if the 601 XL and the 701 use the same spring gear?
They are not the same.
701 (factory) is 3/4 x 3-1/4 x 82" 2024
Grove uses 7/8 x 3-1/4
601 (factory) is 3/4 x 7-3/4 x 96-7/8" 6061
> I've noticed ACS has offers the 701 gear.
So does Grove. They are pricey, but they also offer gun-drilled brake
lines: http://groveaircraft.com/landing_gear.html
Regards,
RonB
Message 6
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| Subject: | Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU |
(alcohol fuel addive discussion)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
Octain boosters will allow higher compression engines to extract a
little bit more energy from the combustion cycle by virtue of enabling
higher compression piston/cylinders by delaying the combustion point
and allowing a smoother flame front upon actual ignition not
preignition(compressive heating causing premature combustion). BTU is
one measure of the potential energy of the fuel we ignite. Kerosene or
diesel has the highest potential energy, then gas and finally
alcohol(in this limited fuel discussion). Adding alcohol, which has
much less BTU potential to gas makes the new mixture less BTU capable
per unit volume (gallon of fuel). Alcohol mixed gas has roughly 17%
less energy per unit volume(as currently mixed and sold I the US). Less
energy to extract, less miles per gallon, less manifold pressure, less
work. Adding octane boosters has little to nothing to this energy
conversion equation. There is simply less BTU (energy) in this new
liquid we can burn.
Message 7
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| Subject: | 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Thread Friends, I have engine droop. My rubber grommets are too soft and so
it droops. My shame is unbearable. Called Jab this a.m. and they said to put in
the special washers to firm up the rubber. Anybody used these washers and is
there anything special about the locations, size or sequencing of
installation? Best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: XL spring gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
Grove offers the spring gear for the 601..and it IS pricey....but it's about
the same money as the one from ZAC. The BIG difference is the weight. The
Grove gear is almost 15 pounds lighter. That's a significant amount.
Dave
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Royer, Michel" <RoyerM@tc.gc.ca>
Well after 3 years of not much aviation activity and more on the
side of house building and shift in priority, I'm putting my 601 HDS
for sale.
Pictures are available on the link below for viewing.
Construction according to the plan, I would say 90% completed
but that last 10 takes so long. Anyway, it has a Lycoming O-235
that only needed new rings when I got it and they were replaced.
The engine had very little usage and a Warp drive is on it.
Most of the electrical is done, fuel system to be completed
and I was planning on putting 6 gallons in both luggage compartment.
Most of engine instrumentation completed except for the artificial horizon.
Electric trim tab, wheel pants, 5 points seat belts,
Front lifting canopy, rivets a4/a5, bolts , etc etc
and the plans.
I'm asking 17K $CDN
You can e-mail me directly at Royerm@tc.gc.ca or call me for questions...
http://groups.msn.com/Zenith601HDS/shoebox.msnw?Page=1
> Michel Royer
>
> (613) 998-7812
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Bill:
You should use the little blue washers from "Pfizer
Engine Noncertified Industrial Services." Here's a
snippet from their website:
"VIAGRAWASHERS (The Little Blue Washers) are the #1
prescribed washers for the condition known as ED
(Engine Droop). VIAGRAWASHERS have been used by over 9
million A&P's and Pilots for the treatment of engine
droop (ED, also called engine-impotence).
There's no need for shame.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Do Not Archive (please)
--- JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
>
> Thread Friends, I have engine droop. My rubber
> grommets are too soft and so
> it droops. My shame is unbearable.
__________________________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
Philip,
I'm sure you know that the O-540 is WAY heavier than the 801 was designed
for. Does ZAC have any recommendations or cautions for going with this
engine? The CH801 is only going to go about a hundred or 110 mph, no matter
how much power you have, maybe consider trading the 540 for an O-360. I
have an O-320 in mine, and it could use more power for climbing when heavy,
although heavy takeoffs are no problem. I have flown in a 360 powered 801
and it is not much faster than mine, although it does climb better when
loaded.
In my opinion, the 360 is really the ideal engine for this design.
Jim Frisby
N801ZA
Palmer, AK
>Time: 07:03:06 AM PST US
>Subject: Zenith-List: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info
>needed......
>From: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
>Can anyone supply any info on a engine mount for the 801 and a Lycoming
>O-540 ? I own the engine, hence the search for a mount. Can a Zenith
>O-360 mount be used on the O-540 ? Will accessories clear ? Is there a
>shop that supplies this other then the Factory? I searched the
>archives and found only Travis's web site.....
>
>Thanks
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Yes Steve,
He turned a CH640 into a 2-seater and he had more tail counter-weight
than he had capacity for baggage.
Real bright idea overpowering a design for speed. What a price to pay!
He caught a little hell on this site
for the reality that an accident in his plane would damage all of us in
the builder community.
He showed less concern for the friends and family he'd have fly with
him. Imagine the slow flight characteristics
of a plane loaded that way. Something like a flying barbell.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
steveadams wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
>
>I know of 1 builder of a CH640 (FWF same as the 801) who put an IO-540 in his
plane. I believe he had to build his own engine mount. You can check out his website,
and may be able to contact him through the website with any questions.
>
>http://www.madbbs.com/~jpaden/
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=37842#37842
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Bill,
I had to lower the prop centerline a degree and put aluminum spacer
washers between the mount and
the rubber washers. It worked to get the droop I wanted, so it follows
you might be able to get the same
result in the reverse by putting them on the bottom mounts.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
APhillipsGA@aol.com wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
>
>Thread Friends, I have engine droop. My rubber grommets are too soft and so
>it droops. My shame is unbearable. Called Jab this a.m. and they said to put in
>the special washers to firm up the rubber. Anybody used these washers and is
>there anything special about the locations, size or sequencing of
>installation? Best regards, Bill of Georgia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Oh my I had no idea about this install...The mind boggles. I know of a
couple of RV's with 540's in them and apparently they are quite stunning
performers but a Zodiac?...Give me a break!
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryMcFarland
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info
needed......
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
--> <larry@macsmachine.com>
Yes Steve,
He turned a CH640 into a 2-seater and he had more tail counter-weight
than he had capacity for baggage.
Real bright idea overpowering a design for speed. What a price to pay!
He caught a little hell on this site
for the reality that an accident in his plane would damage all of us in
the builder community.
He showed less concern for the friends and family he'd have fly with
him. Imagine the slow flight characteristics of a plane loaded that way.
Something like a flying barbell.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
steveadams wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams"
>--> <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
>
>I know of 1 builder of a CH640 (FWF same as the 801) who put an IO-540
in his plane. I believe he had to build his own engine mount. You can
check out his website, and may be able to contact him through the
website with any questions.
>
>http://www.madbbs.com/~jpaden/
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=37842#37842
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "kevinbonds" <kevinbonds@comcast.net>
Dave, where did you find info for the Grove gear for the XL.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
VideoFlyer@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL spring gear
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
Grove offers the spring gear for the 601..and it IS pricey....but it's about
the same money as the one from ZAC. The BIG difference is the weight. The
Grove gear is almost 15 pounds lighter. That's a significant amount.
Dave
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
There are lots of "RV's" with 540's. Most (95% or more) of them are HRII's
or F-1's. If ya want a Rocket, build a Rocket. Ya want side by side ?? check
into the F-2. Coming soon to an airport near you.
A point to ponder: IO540 plus Zodiac equals, how much INSURANCE costs ? ?
KABONG HRII N561FS IO-540 J4A5 Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info
needed......
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Oh my I had no idea about this install...The mind boggles. I know of a
> couple of RV's with 540's in them and apparently they are quite stunning
> performers but a Zodiac?...Give me a break!
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Kevin,
Maybe try groveair.com
They list the 701 for sure, possibly others.
Regards,
Zed
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | xl gear correction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Make that
groveaircraft.com
Zed
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I was ignoring the Rockets when I said RV's with 540's. There are a
couple of RV's that are NOT Rockets with 540's..:)
I'll build a Rocket after I get bored with the 7a...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info
needed......
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
There are lots of "RV's" with 540's. Most (95% or more) of them are
HRII's or F-1's. If ya want a Rocket, build a Rocket. Ya want side by
side ?? check into the F-2. Coming soon to an airport near you.
A point to ponder: IO540 plus Zodiac equals, how much INSURANCE costs ?
?
KABONG HRII N561FS IO-540 J4A5 Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info
needed......
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Oh my I had no idea about this install...The mind boggles. I know of a
> couple of RV's with 540's in them and apparently they are quite
> stunning performers but a Zodiac?...Give me a break!
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Re: Zodiac 601 HDS and Corvair engine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Brandon-
Thanks, for the offer, but too late now. Center wing had maybe 2 days
work to do when I had to stop to build the garanger. My basement floor is
covered with 601 parts and assemblies- you can barely pick out a path to
walk.
Project work is on hold, garanger construction is priority 1. If I don't
get the plane out of the basement soon, I'll be a victim of SIDS. (Spouse
induced death syndrome).
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Tucker" <btucke73@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:04 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Re: Re: Zodiac 601 HDS and Corvair engine
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>
> Snip:
> Jerome-
> No HDS builder will dispute this. Once again, a
> trade off. How much time
> and money is it going to take to scratchbuild a spring
> gear vs bungee? I
> don't think raw stock that thick is going to come
> cheap!
>
> Bill,
>
> I bought a 10' length for less than $100, and
> built the gear in less than 4 hours. The mounts took
> a couple of hours as well, and required a milling
> machine. I used a slightly thicker piece of aluminum
> than the 701 uses. If you have the gear legs that
> came with your kit, then go with the bungee gear. If
> you are scratch building, and are interested in the
> spring gear, e-mail me off list for more information.
>
> R/
>
> Brandon
>
> Spinner installed today
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Welder experiment |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Ron and all-
Excellent link- I'm putting it in my "Keepers" file. This guy looks like
he enjoys tackling the really tough stuff.
For my projected personal use, aluminum welding is not a priority, thus,
I've made my decision.
Considering 99% of the welding I need to do now and intend to do in the
future is on steel, I'm going with the top of the line 240v AC/DC Lincoln
stick welder @ $500 list price. I'll experiment with gas aluminum welding
after doing more research on the technique in my (Hah) spare time.
Let me stress that this is purely a personal decision based on my
personal experience. With over 35 years welding steel with basically the
same Lincoln rig, I can turn out a job that pros don't spit on. At over $1K
for a respectable TIG rig, it looks like contracting TIG welds is more cost
effective.
Thanks for all your input.
Bill
do
not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:26 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Welder experiment
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
>
> To the best of my recall you need flux and blue lenses for gas welding
> aluminum. Here is a link where you might get some pointers:
>
>
> I worked with a guy who would cut thin strips (1/8 wide) off the same
> sheet to use as filler rod and he would gas weld tacks first then, fluxing
> both the base metals and the rod.
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=37811#37811
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Welding aluminum vs. steel ... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
Welding aluminum will gerenerally take more heat than welding the same
dimension of steel. Why, aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat, so
it spreads out over the whole piece. Remember how you could melt one
end of a 12" long steel tube and hold the other end with your bare hand?
- DON'T try this with aluminum - you will be unhappy.
You can try to weld aluminum without flux or cleaning, but you will end
up with a glowing red/black blob of schmeg.
Martin 701
Winnipeg
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: XL spring gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
Dad,
I see ACS has composite spring gear available for the
601 and 701. I don't see how a two piece setup would
work though. Anybody used these yet?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/compositelg.php
--- Dad <leinad@direcway.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dad
> <leinad@direcway.com>
>
> Does anyone know if the 601 XL and the 701 use the
> same spring gear? I've
> noticed ACS has offers the 701 gear.
> Dan (scratch building XL/Corvair in VA)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Yep, there sure are. Both "Super 6" & "Super 8" 's that I know of. Even Van
himself has referred to "Rockets" as RV "derivatives". If you add HRII &
F-1's flying you'll get right in the 200 unit range. That's not near the 4
thousand "RV's" but in the completed kit arena of most homebuilts it's
phenomenal.
My point was that if you take the costs of IO540 & the panel out of the
equation (samo-samo costs) buy the HRII kit & RV-4 parts and compare the
cost of an 801 kit plus all the modifications required, IMNSHO, the 801 with
insurance will not save you a whole bunch of money. Then there is the
"resale value" factor. If you want a Rocket build a Rocket, not an "almost"
for the same investment in time & money. Do Not Archive.
Why am I on this list ? ?
The second airplane in our hanger will either be the RV-12 or a 601XL. (It
will NOT have an 540 in it)
"Bored with the 7A" or any flying "RV" just aint gonna happen. KABONG Do Not
Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:07 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info
needed......
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I was ignoring the Rockets when I said RV's with 540's. There are a
> couple of RV's that are NOT Rockets with 540's..:)
>
> I'll build a Rocket after I get bored with the 7a...:)
>
> Frank
Message 25
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| Subject: | Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its |
BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
The question of octane boosters came from the fact you can wash the ethanol
out of your gasoline but as you do that you will reduce the octane rating of
the gas about 4 or 5 points. I was wondering what is readily available to
add to the fuel to get those few octane points back. From the sound of it
kero or diesel in small quantities might, and I stress might, work. I
understand from another list racers used to add a bit of kero to smooth out
their high compression engines. I'm not sure I would want to try that in
the plane.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Condon, Philip M.
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:51 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content in
> auto fuel - Its BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion)
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M."
> <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
> Octain boosters will allow higher compression engines to extract a
> little bit more energy from the combustion cycle by virtue of enabling
> higher compression piston/cylinders by delaying the combustion point
> and allowing a smoother flame front upon actual ignition not
> preignition(compressive heating causing premature combustion). BTU is
> one measure of the potential energy of the fuel we ignite. Kerosene or
> diesel has the highest potential energy, then gas and finally
> alcohol(in this limited fuel discussion). Adding alcohol, which has
> much less BTU potential to gas makes the new mixture less BTU capable
> per unit volume (gallon of fuel). Alcohol mixed gas has roughly 17%
> less energy per unit volume(as currently mixed and sold I the
> US). Less
> energy to extract, less miles per gallon, less manifold pressure, less
> work. Adding octane boosters has little to nothing to this energy
> conversion equation. There is simply less BTU (energy) in this new
> liquid we can burn.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
lol
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N5SL
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:51 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
>
> Bill:
>
> You should use the little blue washers from "Pfizer
> Engine Noncertified Industrial Services." Here's a
> snippet from their website:
>
> "VIAGRAWASHERS (The Little Blue Washers) are the #1
> prescribed washers for the condition known as ED
> (Engine Droop). VIAGRAWASHERS have been used by over 9
> million A&P's and Pilots for the treatment of engine
> droop (ED, also called engine-impotence).
>
> There's no need for shame.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
> Do Not Archive (please)
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
VE2PFQ???? De ..._ _ _ _ ._ _ _ _ ._ _. ._..
If you recognize that great.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Royer, Michel
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:52 PM
> To: Zenith-List@Matronics.Com (E-mail)
> Subject: Zenith-List: 601 HDS Project
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Royer, Michel" <RoyerM@tc.gc.ca>
>
> Well after 3 years of not much aviation activity and more on the
> side of house building and shift in priority, I'm putting my 601 HDS
> for sale.
>
> Pictures are available on the link below for viewing.
> Construction according to the plan, I would say 90% completed
> but that last 10 takes so long. Anyway, it has a Lycoming O-235
> that only needed new rings when I got it and they were replaced.
>
> The engine had very little usage and a Warp drive is on it.
> Most of the electrical is done, fuel system to be completed
> and I was planning on putting 6 gallons in both luggage compartment.
>
> Most of engine instrumentation completed except for the
> artificial horizon.
> Electric trim tab, wheel pants, 5 points seat belts,
> Front lifting canopy, rivets a4/a5, bolts , etc etc
> and the plans.
>
> I'm asking 17K $CDN
>
> You can e-mail me directly at Royerm@tc.gc.ca or call me for
> questions...
>
> http://groups.msn.com/Zenith601HDS/shoebox.msnw?Page=1
> > Michel Royer
> >
> > (613) 998-7812
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | ----- Thank you Chris H. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Big Gee <taffy0687@yahoo.com>
Bill- Thank you for your reply and I agree with you 100% . I don't care how much
I tried to build the airplane as close as possible to the plans I hope I never
have to experience coming close to 6 g's. If it did happen, and I was still
around, I'd have to say: "Thank you Chris H., for the nice design".
Have fun building -----Fritz---- Corvair
Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
Fritz-
Zenith has a 6g stress limit is something none of us want to experience.
Regardless of who built the plane, if I were in a situation where I was
pulling 6gs, I'd know the end was near and be kicking myself for ever
getting into it.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Big Gee"
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Vs: Re: Zenith-List -- poor work
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Big Gee
>
> Tom-- I agree with you 100 % and didn't intend to imply otherwise.
------ Build a safe
> airplane, if any doubts, ask.
> Fritz ------ Corvair
> do not archive>
======================================================
---------------------------------
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Spring Gear Material Resources |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tom and Bren Henderson <admin@arachnidrobotics.com>
Anyone still looking for material for 601XL main gear might do well to contact
the following. We do a lot of business with these guys, so I don't know what
sort of discount is afforded us. One-Time orders shouldn't be too much more.
Both companies are in Portland, Oregon.
Reliance Metals (800-759-5990): .750 X 7.75 X 97.000 6061-T6 (cut from plate)
$308.00
Copper and Brass Sales (800-926-2600): .750 X 8.000 X 144.000 6061-T6 Barstock
$235
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | another Prop for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary k" <gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com>
Ooops, didn't know that. I'm told it should be good for O-200 and maybe
O-235.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com>
Corvairs require a reverse-rotation prop.
-- Craig
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary k" <gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com>
Blue, 2-blade composite (wood core) Prince prop. 68" X 62", SAE1
pattern.
May be good for Corvair? Out performs Warp, covers wide range of pitch
settings w/o having to change pitch. Can't say enough about Lonnie
Prince
and his props, awesome. About 40 hours on prop, still like new. Used
on
Stratus but seems to be incompatible with 2.2:1 redrive. $750 obo (paid
$1000 and well worth it).
gary
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Zenith list In Cowl Radiators |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@core.com>
Ron,
If your interested my radiators are mounted on two "nacelles" on either
side of the engine.
Tim Shankland
sales@steelframe wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "sales@steelframe" <sales@steelframe.com.au>
>
>Does anyone have Photos of in cowl radiators installed in a 601
>with Subaru engine, any details would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Ron Saarinen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | clearance of rudder cables |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy" <rpf@wi.rr.com>
I'm building a 601xl and have a question regarding the cable fairleads =
instruction (6-B-22 dated 03/04). I've attached the faileads to the =
rear frame channel (6B5-2) and main spar for the rudder cables. When I =
run the rudder cables through the main spar and torgue tube support =
bracket (6B17-1) lighting holes there's not that much clearance for the =
control horn on the aileron torgue tube (6B17-4). I know the aileron =
deflection is only about 11 degrees but I'm wondering if there is enough =
room so the aileron horn does not hit the rudder cables. I'm not sure =
if this applies to the HD or HDS but I know some of you recently =
completed your XL's and would appreciate your experiences with this. =20
Thank you,
Randy Ferri
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
Hi Scott,
Some pictures on the way I did my windshield are on
www.liming.org/ch801/final3.html
I took off about 3/4 inch along the bottom and it worked out ok.
Gary Liming
At 07:56 PM 5/29/2006, you wrote:
>Hello All...
>
>I am finally getting around to installing the
>windshield on my 801.
>
>I would be appreciative to any photos other 801
>builders might have when they were working on trimming
>their windshields.
>-Scott
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | another Prop for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <clydes-shop@netscape.com>
HI: it is true exept with gear redution it is the type I well nead and I am building
CH200/300 # 25
clyde Ehlers
--- gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com wrote:
From: "gary k" <gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: another Prop for sale
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary k" <gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com>
Ooops, didn't know that. I'm told it should be good for O-200 and maybe
O-235.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
<craig@craigandjean.com>
Corvairs require a reverse-rotation prop.
-- Craig
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary k" <gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com>
Blue, 2-blade composite (wood core) Prince prop. 68" X 62", SAE1
pattern.
May be good for Corvair? Out performs Warp, covers wide range of pitch
settings w/o having to change pitch. Can't say enough about Lonnie
Prince
and his props, awesome. About 40 hours on prop, still like new. Used
on
Stratus but seems to be incompatible with 2.2:1 redrive. $750 obo (paid
$1000 and well worth it).
gary
_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its |
BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I don't think adding diesel or kerosene not increase the octane
rating of gasoline since both of these fuels by themselves have a
much lower octane rating than gasoline. To increase the octane rating
of gasoline you need to add a compound composed of lighter short
chain molecules with lots of branching such as benzene or toluene.
On Jun 1, 2006, at 6:10 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> The question of octane boosters came from the fact you can wash the
> ethanol
> out of your gasoline but as you do that you will reduce the octane
> rating of
> the gas about 4 or 5 points. I was wondering what is readily
> available to
> add to the fuel to get those few octane points back. From the
> sound of it
> kero or diesel in small quantities might, and I stress might, work. I
> understand from another list racers used to add a bit of kero to
> smooth out
> their high compression engines. I'm not sure I would want to try
> that in
> the plane.
>
> Noel
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 36
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| Subject: | RE: XL spring gear |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
The composite gear offered at Aircraft Spruce looks
remarkably similar to the gear that Chip Erwin builds
at CAW. The price is awfully good, and the weight
savings is significant. I did some research over a
year ago and reported back to the list. Check the
archives for Grove numbers. I think the Grove gear
with gun drilled brake lines and wheels and brakes ran
about $1600. If I wasn't already done with the gear,
I would look seriously into the composite from ACS.
R/
Brandon
__________________________________________________
Message 37
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| Subject: | Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Zenith-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
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email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Zenith-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Zenith-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/zenith-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Zenith-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Zenith-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Other Matronics Email List Services
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