---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/02/06: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:21 AM - Domed Rivets Question (martyn@flight.co.za) 2. 12:58 AM - Re: XL spring gear (Hunt Malcolm) 3. 03:08 AM - Re: Domed Rivets Question (Jari Kaija) 4. 03:38 AM - Re: XL spring gear (Paul Mulwitz) 5. 03:58 AM - Re: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... (Crvsecretary@aol.com) 6. 04:11 AM - Re: Domed Rivets Question (Zodie Rocket) 7. 04:14 AM - Re: XL spring gear (Hunt Malcolm) 8. 05:43 AM - Re: XL spring gear (cgalley) 9. 06:16 AM - Re: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 10. 06:18 AM - Re: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 11. 06:36 AM - Re: Domed Rivets Question (Jim Hoak) 12. 06:43 AM - Re: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... (Bryan Martin) 13. 07:33 AM - Re: XL spring gear () 14. 07:33 AM - Re: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed...... (steveadams) 15. 07:34 AM - Re: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... (Michael Valentine) 16. 07:41 AM - Re: Domed Rivets Question () 17. 07:47 AM - Article Idea? (Paul Mulwitz) 18. 07:57 AM - Re: Domed Rivets Question (N5SL) 19. 07:57 AM - Re: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts (LarryMcFarland) 20. 08:31 AM - Re: Octane Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion) (Eldo Hildebrand) 21. 08:44 AM - Re: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... (Craig Moore) 22. 09:17 AM - Re: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion) (Ken Lilja) 23. 09:22 AM - Re: Octane Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion) (Ken Lilja) 24. 09:48 AM - Re: Domed Rivets Question (Jari Kaija) 25. 09:51 AM - water based primer (LarryMcFarland) 26. 10:11 AM - Re: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... (Noel Loveys) 27. 10:52 AM - Re: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 28. 11:14 AM - Feedback Requested on Buying Used Zenith A/C - Kitplanes Magazine Article (Cory Emberson) 29. 11:38 AM - Re: Domed Rivets Question. (Gary Gower) 30. 11:51 AM - Re: XL spring gear. (Gary Gower) 31. 12:34 PM - Re: XL spring gear. (cgalley) 32. 01:03 PM - Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 (Keystone Engineering LLC) 33. 01:07 PM - Video (John Hines) 34. 02:40 PM - Looking for 601XL (Doug Moellering) 35. 02:56 PM - Re: Video (ron wehba) 36. 03:06 PM - Re: ----- Thank you Chris H. (Bill Naumuk) 37. 03:31 PM - Re: XL spring gear. (Bill Naumuk) 38. 04:15 PM - Re: Video (Bill Naumuk) 39. 04:52 PM - Re: Video (John Hines) 40. 05:04 PM - Re: Video (ron wehba) 41. 06:22 PM - Ecofly Engines (Michael Valentine) 42. 06:53 PM - Re: Ecofly Engines (Craig Payne) 43. 07:07 PM - Cordless Drill (Bill Naumuk) 44. 09:13 PM - Re: Ecofly Engines (Michael Valentine) 45. 09:26 PM - Re: Feedback Requested on Buying Used Zenith A/C - Kitplanes Magazine Article (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 46. 09:31 PM - Re: Cordless Drill (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 47. 09:43 PM - Re: Feedback Requested on Buying Used Zenith A/C - Kitplanes Magazine Article (Cory Emberson) 48. 10:44 PM - Re: Ecofly Engines (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:20 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Domed Rivets Question From: martyn@flight.co.za --> Zenith-List message posted by: martyn@flight.co.za Hello All, Why must I alter (Machine) my rivet Gun heads, when there are allready Domed head blind rivets available in shops? Could someone please explain to me why this is so! I'm sure it's an easy answer :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Avex 'Avdel' Rivet in A4 and A5, can be replaced by a Domed Head rivet of A3 and A6 respectivly? Is it a case of Cost? Or does this method of modified rivet heads make a stronger join than pre shaped (domed) rivets? Thanks in advance! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:39 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL spring gear From: "Hunt Malcolm" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" 601XL Thread Friends I have just ordered the composite legs (mandatory in UK) from CZAW and these cost 867 USD including shipping and tax (19%) which is just for the legs with no fittings whatsoever. I would like to use the Grove axles, wheels and brakes which look very good and have roller bearings, rather than the CZAW design which are 20mm dia axles and I believe Matco wheels with ball bearings. Has anyone using composite legs had experience with Grove wheels as there looks to be a conflict with the brake cylinder components when using the ali gear and I would be very loathe to start cutting away the composite material. Answers on one side of the paper only!!! Many thanks in advance. Malcolm Hunt CH601XL Plans builder in England -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Moore Sent: 01 June 2006 20:35 Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL spring gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore Dad, I see ACS has composite spring gear available for the 601 and 701. I don't see how a two piece setup would work though. Anybody used these yet? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/compositelg.php --- Dad wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dad > > > Does anyone know if the 601 XL and the 701 use the > same spring gear? I've > noticed ACS has offers the 701 gear. > Dan (scratch building XL/Corvair in VA) > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a source external to Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. This email should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended recipient, nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is not an original intended recipient. If you have received this email by mistake please notify us by emailing the sender, and then delete the email and any copies from your system. Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders own and not made on behalf of Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:35 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Domed Rivets Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > Could someone please explain to me why this is so! I'm sure it's an easy > answer :) I will try. Zenair has thought, that when you are using countersunk rivet, rivet's "neck" will be more tight against hole edges in aluminium than domed has. And they "think", that formed head from counters. to domed will be stroung enough. STILL! I'm not using countersunk with my CH701. Not even avdel avex rivets. I'm using stronger one, what I found from planet called earth. I had very smiley face few years ago, when I tested avdel vs. "my choice" rivets. BUT! It is MY choice and I DO NOT suggest it to anyone else, if he/she do not know, what he/she is doing! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:15 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL spring gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Malcolm, First let me apologize for answering a question with a question. Alas, I don't have any answers on this one. My question is: How does changing from a heavy piece of metal to a (presumably) lighter piece of fiberglass impact the weight and balance of the airplane? Is it necessary to position the landing gear in a different location? Also, do you know why you must use the composite gear in the UK? Thanks, Paul XL wings do not archive >I have just ordered the composite legs (mandatory in UK) from CZAW and >these cost 867 USD including shipping and tax (19%) which is just for >the legs with no fittings whatsoever. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:22 AM PST US From: Crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com Exactly what IS the octane rating of diesel and kerosene? I understood diesel to have a CETANE rating which measures the AFFINITY of fuel to ignite spontaneously under extreme heat and pressure - exactly the opposite of octane. Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT 601xl N458XL (reserved) do not archive In a message dated 6/1/2006 11:12:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, bryanmmartin@comcast.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I don't think adding diesel or kerosene not increase the octane rating of gasoline since both of these fuels by themselves have a much lower octane rating than gasoline. To increase the octane rating of gasoline you need to add a compound composed of lighter short chain molecules with lots of branching such as benzene or toluene. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:31 AM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Domed Rivets Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Chris has designed a simple method of working with two types of rivets on your plane for almost every location A4/A5. The domed head work hardens the countersunk head making it stronger and also allows the rivet to accept a varying amount of metal thicknesses, while offering a more watertight seal. Without the formed head you would need to determine the metal thickness of each piece you were going to rivet and use a rivet with the appropriate throat(stem length). In this I would imagine you would need about 4-5 more rivet sizes in each the A4 and A5 with different stem lengths to accommodate the different material thicknesses. I like the idea of two rivets choices and the simplicity that Chris Heintz has created by doming the head of a countersunk rivet. cdngoose Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- Hello All, Why must I alter (Machine) my rivet Gun heads, when there are allready Domed head blind rivets available in shops? Could someone please explain to me why this is so! I'm sure it's an easy answer :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Avex 'Avdel' Rivet in A4 and A5, can be replaced by a Domed Head rivet of A3 and A6 respectivly? Is it a case of Cost? Or does this method of modified rivet heads make a stronger join than pre shaped (domed) rivets? Thanks in advance! -- -- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:10 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL spring gear From: "Hunt Malcolm" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" Paul Firstly all homebuilt aircraft in the UK must be to an approved design by the Popular Flying Association (PFA) who act for the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and will ultimately issue a Permit to Fly. No changes to the certified design can be made without PFA approval and the design certified by the PFA is for the CH601XL model is with CZAW modifications which includes the composite main gear. This gear is two composite legs housed in 4130n steel chambers and with modified part 6B11-4; there are also small changes to the transverse gear channel. I suspect the change in weight is close to the mid-range of the c of g but obviously no problems in this direction as aircraft certified and flying. Sorry if this is a bit long winded! Malcolm -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: 02 June 2006 11:37 Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL spring gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Malcolm, First let me apologize for answering a question with a question. Alas, I don't have any answers on this one. My question is: How does changing from a heavy piece of metal to a (presumably) lighter piece of fiberglass impact the weight and balance of the airplane? Is it necessary to position the landing gear in a different location? Also, do you know why you must use the composite gear in the UK? Thanks, Paul XL wings do not archive >I have just ordered the composite legs (mandatory in UK) from CZAW and >these cost 867 USD including shipping and tax (19%) which is just for >the legs with no fittings whatsoever. > > > > > Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a source external to Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. This email should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended recipient, nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is not an original intended recipient. If you have received this email by mistake please notify us by emailing the sender, and then delete the email and any copies from your system. Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the senders own and not made on behalf of Network Rail. *************************************************************************************************************** ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:21 AM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL spring gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" It is even more restrictive than the message below indicates. After plane is finished, it is inspected by the PFA, and then you must pay a PFA test pilot to do the test flying it before you can begin to fly it. Any structural repairs must be approved by the PFA. There are probably more, but we are blessed (or cursed) with less restrictive regulations. Cy Galley EAA Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hunt Malcolm" Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:13 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL spring gear > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" > > > Paul > > Firstly all homebuilt aircraft in the UK must be to an approved design > by the Popular Flying Association (PFA) who act for the Civil Aviation > Authority (CAA) and will ultimately issue a Permit to Fly. > > No changes to the certified design can be made without PFA approval and > the design certified by the PFA is for the CH601XL model is with CZAW > modifications which includes the composite main gear. > > This gear is two composite legs housed in 4130n steel chambers and with > modified part 6B11-4; there are also small changes to the transverse > gear channel. > > I suspect the change in weight is close to the mid-range of the c of g > but obviously no problems in this direction as aircraft certified and > flying. > > Sorry if this is a bit long winded! > > Malcolm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul > Mulwitz > Sent: 02 June 2006 11:37 > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL spring gear > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > Malcolm, > > First let me apologize for answering a question with a > question. Alas, I don't have any answers on this one. > > My question is: How does changing from a heavy piece of metal to a > (presumably) lighter piece of fiberglass impact the weight and > balance of the airplane? Is it necessary to position the landing > gear in a different location? > > Also, do you know why you must use the composite gear in the UK? > > Thanks, > > Paul > XL wings > do not archive > > >>I have just ordered the composite legs (mandatory in UK) from CZAW and >>these cost 867 USD including shipping and tax (19%) which is just for >>the legs with no fittings whatsoever. >> >> > >> >> >> > > > Your attention is drawn to the fact that this email originated from a > source external to Network Rail. > > > *************************************************************************************************************** > The content of this email (and any attachment) is confidential. It may > also be legally privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. > > This email should not be used by anyone who is not an original intended > recipient, nor may it be copied or disclosed to anyone who is > not an original intended recipient. If you have received this email by > mistake please notify us by emailing the sender, and then > delete the email and any copies from your system. > > Liability cannot be accepted for statements made which are clearly the > senders own and not made on behalf of Network Rail. > *************************************************************************************************************** > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:23 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Larry, thanks, I'll try that. Have you noticed any splitting of the rubber bushing ? I was told by an a & p to be concerned about that if a washer is used to adjust the engine angle. Best regards, Bill ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:57 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Scott, I'll see if the blue washers are covered in my HMO. Best to you, Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:02 AM PST US From: "Jim Hoak" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Domed Rivets Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Hoak" Do not archive Why use flush Avdel Avex Rivets and reshape the head? Chris H. told me there are several reasons. Many novice metal airplane builders aren't experienced in assuring the two pieces of metal being riveted must be in thight contact with each other to develope a strong joint. Since rivets do most of their work in shear this is important, especially with the very thin metal we use on these Zeniths.. That is one of the reasons why we must deburr the holes carefully. Builders working with solid rivets must learn to "draw" the metal pieces together to get a strong joint. I've said all that to say the neat thing about the Avdel Avex Rivet installed as Chris H wants, actually pulls the pieces of metal together as the rivet is set. Apparently this is not an absolute necessity because the Murphy Airplanes and others, use the Avdel Avex Rivets but they use the ones manufactured with the dome head. Chris is just helping the first time builder! The unique design feature of the Avex which allows us to use just one length of each - A4 and A5 - for the entire aircraft is another one of the nice things about them. They aren't length sensetive as are the Cherry Q and N rivets used in the Sonex and other aircraft. The Cherry Rivets are stronger but you must pay attention to the length at each location. Reshaping the head allows a nice tight fit against the skin too. The retained stem in the formed head makes them neary water tight. Be careful though. As a Tech Counselor I looked at a nearly completed 601XL where the builder used the flush rivets without using the machined heads on his pnuematic rivet gun. He hadn't read the basic Sheet Metal Instruction that Zenith provides. There was a gap under every rivet head on the airplane. After I talked with Chris about this he said the entire airplane had to be disassembled and re-riveted. The rivets installed improperly this way just won't have the strength required. I've not been asked to look at that airplane again - YET! My personal experience is that when I considered building the 601HD I was concerned about using blind rivets for the entire airplane except the spars. I had completed a Midget Mustang I back in 1971 using solid rivets for everything, even to hold nutplates. Also as an A & P I had worked on many airliners and general aviation airplanes, using very few blind rivets and the ones I used just weren't very good except the expensive and very length sensitive Cherry Lock and Cherry Max rivets. I decided to look into the various "Blind" rivets and now have a better understanding of these fastners. I've yet to find a loose or sheared Avex Rivet in my 601 HD with 512 hours. Install them correctly and they will do a fine job, just like Chris H wanted them to. Go fly! Jim Hoak ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 3:14 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Zenith-List: Domed Rivets Question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: martyn@flight.co.za > > Hello All, > > Why must I alter (Machine) my rivet Gun heads, when there are allready > Domed head blind rivets available in shops? > > Could someone please explain to me why this is so! I'm sure it's an easy > answer :) > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Avex 'Avdel' Rivet in A4 and A5, can be > replaced by a Domed Head rivet of A3 and A6 respectivly? > > Is it a case of Cost? > > Or does this method of modified rivet heads make a stronger join than pre > shaped (domed) rivets? > > Thanks in advance! > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:37 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin From What I've read, kerosene and diesel have octane ratings in the 15 to 25 range. I don't believe adding them to gasoline will raise its octane rating. On Jun 2, 2006, at 6:56 AM, Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Crvsecretary@aol.com > > > Exactly what IS the octane rating of diesel and kerosene? I > understood > diesel to have a CETANE rating which measures the AFFINITY of fuel > to ignite > spontaneously under extreme heat and pressure - exactly the > opposite of octane. > > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:56 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL spring gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: If it's anything like the CZAW gear, which is two curved legs, you get= two saddles/clamps, sorta like Zenith's, that go at the outer edge of= the fuselage. The gear leg extends inboard for almost a foot from the= saddle/clamp, and at the inboard end, you can use a steel plate insid= e the floorboard to spread the load, with two bolts drilled through th= e inner end, and suitably washered. The outcome is that you get an up-= force at the saddle, with a down-force at the plates. I used a consid= erably larger plate than the CZAW plans called for. The tread on the C= ZAW is approximately five and three-quarters feet wide. Somewhat narro= wer than ZAC's. It's about the width of a Sonex, but a longer wheelbas= e. I'd send pictchurs, but I are computer semi illitirite.=0D=0A=0D=0A= Paul Rodriguez=0D=0A601XL/Corvair=0D=0A ----- Original Message ----- = =0D=0A From: Craig Moore =0D=0A To: zeni= th-list@matronics.com =0D=0A Sent: = Thursday, June 01, 2006 2:34 PM=0D=0A Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL sp= ring gear=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig = Moore >=0D=0A=0D=0A D= ad,=0D=0A=0D=0A I see ACS has composite spring gear available for the= =0D=0A 601 and 701. I don't see how a two piece setup would=0D=0A wo= rk though. Anybody used these yet?=0D=0A=0D=0A http://www.aircraftspr= uce.com/catalog/lgpages/compositelg.php=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A --- Dad > wrote:=0D=0A=0D=0A > --> Zeni= th-List message posted by: Dad=0D=0A > >=0D=0A > =0D=0A > Does anyone know if the 601 XL = and the 701 use the=0D=0A > same spring gear? I've =0D=0A > noticed= ACS has offers the 701 gear.=0D=0A > Dan (scratch building XL/Corvai= r in VA) =0D=0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A >= =0D=0A > browse=0D=0A > Subscriptions page,=0D=0A > FAQ,=0D=0A > h= ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List=0D=0A >=0D=0A >=0D=0A > Admin.=0D=0A >=0D= =0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A > = =0D=0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A > =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A ____________________= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= onics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steveadams" larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: > Yes Steve, > He turned a CH640 into a 2-seater and he had more tail counter-weight > than he had capacity for baggage. > Real bright idea overpowering a design for speed. What a price to pay! > He caught a little hell on this site > for the reality that an accident in his plane would damage all of us in > the builder community. > He showed less concern for the friends and family he'd have fly with > him. Imagine the slow flight characteristics > of a plane loaded that way. Something like a flying barbell. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > I wasn't going to comment on all that, but... I agree that a 540 has no place in one of these aircraft. The O-360 in the CH640 is a perfect match. Performance is excellent, and it is the engine it was designed for. You want to preserve all the nice flight characteristics CH has designed into it, and putting in a huge engine is going to mess it up to no end. I would assume the same is true for the 801. Find an engine to fit your 801 as designed, don't modify the design to fit an innappropriate engine. If you really must use the 540, find an airframe to build that was designed for it. That's my advice as a builder and happy flyer of a CH640 with an O-360. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38080#38080 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:47 AM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" Do not archive. Sorry, but could someone explain the signficance of the octane discussion. I understand that alcohol has less energy. What significance does the octane rating have. Plus, if I have 93 octane mogas and add alcohol, how does that affect the rating. Then, if I remove said alcohol, why does that then affect the rating? Thanks, Michael (Planning on using a Corvair, which is likely to be fed some mogas.) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:20 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Domed Rivets Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: As I understand it, the rationale behind this is that ZAC uses counter= sunk rivets, and the cupped rivet gun head work-hardens the head by be= nding the CS rivet down into a domed shape. Adds a little strength to = it.=0D=0A=0D=0APaul Rodriguez=0D=0A601XL/Corvair=0D=0A ----- Original= Message ----- =0D=0A From: martyn@flight.co.za =0D=0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com =0D=0A Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:14 AM=0D=0A Subject: Z= enith-List: Domed Rivets Question=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A --> Zenith-List m= essage posted by: martyn@flight.co.za=0D= =0A=0D=0A Hello All,=0D=0A=0D=0A Why must I alter (Machine) my rivet= Gun heads, when there are allready=0D=0A Domed head blind rivets ava= ilable in shops?=0D=0A=0D=0A Could someone please explain to me why t= his is so! I'm sure it's an easy=0D=0A answer :)=0D=0A=0D=0A Correct= me if I'm wrong, but the Avex 'Avdel' Rivet in A4 and A5, can be=0D= =0A replaced by a Domed Head rivet of A3 and A6 respectivly?=0D=0A=0D= =0A Is it a case of Cost?=0D=0A=0D=0A Or does this method of modifie= d rivet heads make a stronger join than pre=0D=0A shaped (domed) rive= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List Subject: Zenith-List: Article Idea? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Cy, I recently heard some airlines are offering Internet access from passenger seats. If this is now possible there are all sorts of really neat pieces of information that could be directly linked to small planes -- IF they could also be given real time Internet access. Start with real time radar displays for any covered location. Add in weather observations and predictions. Then there is flight planning, and related stuff. Add to that email and voice messaging to anyone with a telephone number. The list goes on. I have no idea how to pursue this idea, but I am sure there is at least one magazine article here. Paul At 05:38 AM 6/2/2006, you wrote: >Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:35 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Domed Rivets Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Jim: I removed the "D* NOT Arch**" from the text below because this was one of the better emails I've seen on riveting. Thanks for taking the time to share this information. Scott Laughlin 601XL All I lack is finishing --- Jim Hoak wrote: > Why use flush Avdel Avex Rivets and reshape the > head? Chris H. told me there > are several reasons. Many novice metal airplane > builders aren't experienced > in assuring the two pieces of metal being riveted > must be in thight contact > with each other to develope a strong joint. Since > rivets do most of their > work in shear this is important, especially with the > very thin metal we use > on these Zeniths.. That is one of the reasons why we > must deburr the holes > carefully. Builders working with solid rivets must > learn to "draw" the metal > pieces together to get a strong joint. I've said all > that to say the neat > thing about the Avdel Avex Rivet installed as Chris > H wants, actually pulls > the pieces of metal together as the rivet is set. > > Apparently this is not an absolute necessity because > the Murphy Airplanes > and others, use the Avdel Avex Rivets but they use > the ones manufactured > with the dome head. Chris is just helping the first > time builder! > > The unique design feature of the Avex which allows > us to use just one length > of each - A4 and A5 - for the entire aircraft is > another one of the nice > things about them. They aren't length sensetive as > are the Cherry Q and N > rivets used in the Sonex and other aircraft. The > Cherry Rivets are stronger > but you must pay attention to the length at each > location. > > Reshaping the head allows a nice tight fit against > the skin too. The > retained stem in the formed head makes them neary > water tight. > > Be careful though. As a Tech Counselor I looked at a > nearly completed 601XL > where the builder used the flush rivets without > using the machined heads on > his pnuematic rivet gun. He hadn't read the basic > Sheet Metal Instruction > that Zenith provides. There was a gap under every > rivet head on the > airplane. After I talked with Chris about this he > said the entire airplane > had to be disassembled and re-riveted. The rivets > installed improperly this > way just won't have the strength required. I've not > been asked to look at > that airplane again - YET! > > My personal experience is that when I considered > building the 601HD I was > concerned about using blind rivets for the entire > airplane except the spars. > I had completed a Midget Mustang I back in 1971 > using solid rivets for > everything, even to hold nutplates. Also as an A & P > I had worked on many > airliners and general aviation airplanes, using very > few blind rivets and > the ones I used just weren't very good except the > expensive and very length > sensitive Cherry Lock and Cherry Max rivets. I > decided to look into the > various "Blind" rivets and now have a better > understanding of these > fastners. > > I've yet to find a loose or sheared Avex Rivet in my > 601 HD with 512 hours. > Install them correctly and they will do a fine job, > just like Chris H wanted > them to. > > Go fly! > > Jim Hoak __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:35 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL-Jab Rubber Engine Mounts --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Bill, No splitting of the bushings at all. If this occurs, I believe the rubber has aged beyond its useful life and would replace them. Larry JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > >Larry, thanks, I'll try that. Have you noticed any splitting of the rubber >bushing ? I was told by an a & p to be concerned about that if a washer is used >to adjust the engine angle. Best regards, Bill > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:56 AM PST US From: "Eldo Hildebrand" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Octane Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Eldo Hildebrand" This is an interesting discussion; however there seems to be some confusion about the actual definition of "octane rating." Technically it does not apply to diesel or kerosene fuelled engines but only fuels made with heptane and octane; although the industry uses the same definition for other blends that have equivalent response under compression. In theory, an 87 Octane fuel is exactly what it says... it is made up of 87% octane and 13% heptane (one is a carbon compound with 8 carbon atoms and the other with 7. Since octane is a little more expensive to get out of the refining process, the industry has used a number of additives over the years to make a blend with less octane behave under compression like one with the higher percentage of octane. Adding another compound like alcohol means they have to go back to the drawing board and change the additives in some way to get the fuel to behave like an 87 octane. I suppose that is why the current limits in auto fuel generally keep the substitution below 10% unless the engine has been specifically designed for higher levels of alcohol. I think there may also be some concerns about alcohol compatibility with seals and fuel lines but that is a whole other question. For a much more complete description Octane/Heptane, see: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm Eldo Hildebrand ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:12 AM PST US From: Craig Moore Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore Tracy, Here is a very informative article about octane and cetane ratings. http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/GArticles/octane.html Best regards, Craig Moore A&P 701 builder wannabe --- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > Crvsecretary@aol.com > > > Exactly what IS the octane rating of diesel and > kerosene? I understood > diesel to have a CETANE rating which measures the > AFFINITY of fuel to ignite > spontaneously under extreme heat and pressure - > exactly the opposite of octane. > > > Tracy Smith > Naugatuck, CT > 601xl N458XL (reserved) > do not archive > > > In a message dated 6/1/2006 11:12:28 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > bryanmmartin@comcast.net writes: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > > > I don't think adding diesel or kerosene not > increase the octane > rating of gasoline since both of these fuels by > themselves have a > much lower octane rating than gasoline. To increase > the octane rating > of gasoline you need to add a compound composed of > lighter short > chain molecules with lots of branching such as > benzene or toluene. > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:10 AM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Lilja Adding alcohol to gasoline is a cheaper way to raise the octane rating. The gasoline stock can then be cheaper grade. As I recall, alcohol has an octane rating of about 118. It is used in Indy race cars. It would be interesting to find the Reed vapor pressure and compare to that of gasoline. Ken Lilja ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:44 AM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Octane Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (alcohol fuel addive discussion) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Lilja See http://www.ext.colostate.edu/Pubs/farmmgt/05010.html Ken Lilja ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:02 AM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Domed Rivets Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" > imagine you would need about 4-5 more rivet sizes in each the A4 and A5 > with different stem lengths to accommodate the different material Thats true! 4 different sizes for A4 and 2 (3) different sizes for A5. One thing what I missed with manufacturer's gatalog. They have fully sealed versions of those rivets also what I use. Sad, but it's too late for me... Maybe I will use those, when starting build floats... ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:00 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Zenith-List: water based primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Hi guys, Its been a while since I mentioned the Hangar 21 AFS water thinned paints and I felt it was time to report what was happening so far. I just finished priming all the small panels, inspection plates, covers and fairings that generally have no internal structures or rivets. Couldnt be happier with this stuff as its really tough. There are no odors or over spray to deal with, so my paint booth has been more than equal to the task Yesterday, I moved on to the tail group and washed, etched and rinsed the stabilizer with the hose. As it drained, I noticed the trickle of water leaving the stabilizer was just a slight yellow. It was wiped down and blown dry and set at an angle to drip. Each rivet was again blown dry and wiped with a clean cotton cloth and then left for nearly 4 hours to evaporate. Late afternoon, I thinned the paint, put a fog coat on the bottom side to see how a larger area covers. A third coat covered 95% so the fourth coat finished the job and it flattened beautifully. No runs, fish eyes or orange peel. What was noticed was a yellow tint around a few pop rivets and skin edges. Not a lot, but I surmised the etch solution had also etched some of the zinc chromate that covers the inside of the stabilizer. I let it dry over night and then worked Scotchbrite around the stained rivets and edges. The primer was so tough I had to use a small stainless toothbrush to remove the stain around the rivets. Surely it was dry by now, so I sprayed one covering coat on the bottom again. The cleaned areas covered real nice, yet a few rivets had a much fainter tinge of yellow at their perimeter so obviously it hadnt completely dried. The precaution here is, that in etching an enclosed surface with zinc chromate inside or other primer, perhaps there should be much more time between dry off and the first coat of primer. Etch should not be a process of washing on and washing off, but rather wiping on and wiping off before rinsing. Other than that, Im really pleased with the process and its user compatibility within my attached garage. Ive changed the filters once and the fans arent run above the low setting. Ill report more detail as I learn more of working through the process. Do fly safe, Larry C. McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:18 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" Michael: If you have 93 octane gas and add 10% ethanol the resulting octane rating will be around 98. Ergo if you have 98 octane gasahol and remove the "ahol" part you are back to 93 octane. Many aircraft engines need high octane fuel so the question arises as to how to boost the 93 octane "clean" gas back to something we can use. The other method to use would be to find a way to remove most/all the lead form 100 LL although the lead it self helps to raise the octane level. This is mostly an issue with the high revving two stroke crowd. Although the lead certainly has a big effect on certified engines. Any way you want to cut the mustard ethanol and aviation should not mix! Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Michael Valentine > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 12:04 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content > in auto fuel - Its BTU (... > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" > > > Do not archive. > > Sorry, but could someone explain the signficance of the > octane discussion. > I understand that alcohol has less energy. What significance does the > octane rating have. Plus, if I have 93 octane mogas and add > alcohol, how > does that affect the rating. Then, if I remove said alcohol, > why does that > then affect the rating? > > Thanks, Michael > (Planning on using a Corvair, which is likely to be fed some mogas.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:16 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Any way you want to cut the mustard ethanol and aviation should not mix! Not sure I agree with that satetment at all..i think there has simply been very little resarch done on the matter, more like that is the established wisdom but it has not been proven that there is a real issue. Certainly in the altitudes that Zodiacs fly at I believe is is a non issue (400 hours would prove it my case). As I said at length in a previous note, Superior said they tested 10% ethanol on a Lycoming clone and it caused vapor lock and was therfore a no-no...When I pressed them it turns out they were not talking about vapor lock at all, but boiling within the injector lines, which may or may not turn out to be no more than a nusance, until it is TESTED though I don't think we can take this as truth. "Many aircraft engines need high octane fuel"... Once again, this highly conjectural (is that a word?). All of the naturally aspirated Lycomings will run quite happily on 92 octane mogas...In fact Superior found it very difficult to make an IO360 detonate on the test stand running unleaded (92 octane) fuels. About the only flat engine that will detonate without 100ll is the turbocharged 350HP IO540...Not "many" of those around and a totally different (fire breathing) animal than most of the Lycoming/continentals. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 10:10 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto fuel - Its BTU (... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" Michael: If you have 93 octane gas and add 10% ethanol the resulting octane rating will be around 98. Ergo if you have 98 octane gasahol and remove the "ahol" part you are back to 93 octane. Many aircraft engines need high octane fuel so the question arises as to how to boost the 93 octane "clean" gas back to something we can use. The other method to use would be to find a way to remove most/all the lead form 100 LL although the lead it self helps to raise the octane level. This is mostly an issue with the high revving two stroke crowd. Although the lead certainly has a big effect on certified engines. Any way you want to cut the mustard ethanol and aviation should not mix! Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael > Valentine > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 12:04 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Octain Rating is not energy content in auto > fuel - Its BTU (... > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" > > > Do not archive. > > Sorry, but could someone explain the signficance of the octane > discussion. > I understand that alcohol has less energy. What significance does the > octane rating have. Plus, if I have 93 octane mogas and add alcohol, > how does that affect the rating. Then, if I remove said alcohol, why > does that then affect the rating? > > Thanks, Michael > (Planning on using a Corvair, which is likely to be fed some mogas.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:27 AM PST US From: Cory Emberson Subject: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested on Buying Used Zenith A/C - Kitplanes Magazine Article --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cory Emberson Hello everyone, I'm gathering information for the second of a series of articles on buying used homebuilt aircraft, and this installment will cover the Zenith series. If anyone has had experience in buying or selling a previously-owned Zenith, I would love to hear from you. Some items I'm looking for: What are the absolute must-have/must-see features when buying? How do you conduct the pre-buy inspection? What must you look for specifically on a Zenith versus any other aircraft? Also, I'd like to speak to anyone who has experience in performing pre-buys on the Zenith line. (I'll be calling Sebastian a little bit later.) This will be a comprehensive guide, covering as much as we possibly can. I look forward to hearing from you - please feel free to contact me off-line at the following email address (formatted for anti-spam): bootless (at) earthlink (dot) net Thanks! Cory Emberson Contributing Editor Kitplanes Magazine ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:45 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Domed Rivets Question. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower This comes to something we say here and I learned from a Professor in College (Industrial Engineer): Everybody can invent something... But only a Genoius can design the same thing real simple. (and in aviation: lighter). Saludos Gary Gower. Flying from Chapala, Mexico. Zodie Rocket wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Chris has designed a simple method of working with two types of rivets on your plane for almost every location A4/A5. The domed head work hardens the countersunk head making it stronger and also allows the rivet to accept a varying amount of metal thicknesses, while offering a more watertight seal. Without the formed head you would need to determine the metal thickness of each piece you were going to rivet and use a rivet with the appropriate throat(stem length). In this I would imagine you would need about 4-5 more rivet sizes in each the A4 and A5 with different stem lengths to accommodate the different material thicknesses. I like the idea of two rivets choices and the simplicity that Chris Heintz has created by doming the head of a countersunk rivet. cdngoose Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- Hello All, Why must I alter (Machine) my rivet Gun heads, when there are allready Domed head blind rivets available in shops? Could someone please explain to me why this is so! I'm sure it's an easy answer :) Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Avex 'Avdel' Rivet in A4 and A5, can be replaced by a Domed Head rivet of A3 and A6 respectivly? Is it a case of Cost? Or does this method of modified rivet heads make a stronger join than pre shaped (domed) rivets? Thanks in advance! __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:16 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL spring gear. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Here is a little bit more simple: You build it? ..... You fly it! :-) or get a test pilot. There was a bush pilot here (some years ago), a good friend of my father. That went a little farther. He had a real beautiful Cessna 195. Everytime he had his plane serviced. He always flew with the mechanic the test flights... I think his best waranty of a well made repair :-) Saludos Gary Gower. Flying from Chapala, Mexico. cgalley wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" It is even more restrictive than the message below indicates. After plane is finished, it is inspected by the PFA, and then you must pay a PFA test pilot to do the test flying it before you can begin to fly it. Any structural repairs must be approved by the PFA. There are probably more, but we are blessed (or cursed) with less restrictive regulations. Cy Galley EAA Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hunt Malcolm" Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:13 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL spring gear > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" > > > Paul > > Firstly all homebuilt aircraft in the UK must be to an approved design > by the Popular Flying Association (PFA) who act for the Civil Aviation > Authority (CAA) and will ultimately issue a Permit to Fly. > > No changes to the certified design can be made without PFA approval and > the design certified by the PFA is for the CH601XL model is with CZAW > modifications which includes the composite main gear. > > This gear is two composite legs housed in 4130n steel chambers and with > modified part 6B11-4; there are also small changes to the transverse > gear channel. > > I suspect the change in weight is close to the mid-range of the c of g > but obviously no problems in this direction as aircraft certified and > flying. > > Sorry if this is a bit long winded! > > Malcolm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul > Mulwitz > Sent: 02 June 2006 11:37 > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL spring gear > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > Malcolm, > > First let me apologize for answering a question with a > question. Alas, I don't have any answers on this one. > > My question is: How does changing from a heavy piece of metal to a > (presumably) lighter piece of fiberglass impact the weight and > balance of the airplane? Is it necessary to position the landing > gear in a different location? > > Also, do you know why you must use the composite gear in the UK? > > Thanks, > > Paul > XL wings > do not archive > > >>I have just ordered the composite legs (mandatory in UK) from CZAW and >>these cost 867 USD including shipping and tax (19%) which is just for >>the legs with no fittings whatsoever. >> __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:13 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL spring gear. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" You missed the entire point. IF you build it; it must meet English PFA standards with NO deviation from the plans. After building, you hire the PFA inspector. IF he passes it, then you hire the PFA test pilot. If it passes the flight testing by your paid PFA test pilot, you can then fly it. You have no options! It is like paying the EAA to do all this for your Zenith. Cy Galley EAA Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Gower" Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL spring gear. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > Here is a little bit more simple: > > You build it? ..... You fly it! :-) or get a test pilot. > > There was a bush pilot here (some years ago), a good friend of my father. > That went a little farther. > He had a real beautiful Cessna 195. Everytime he had his plane serviced. > He always flew with the mechanic the test flights... I think his best > waranty of a well made repair :-) > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > Flying from Chapala, Mexico. > > cgalley wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" > > It is even more restrictive than the message below indicates. After plane > is finished, it is inspected by the PFA, and then you must pay a PFA test > pilot to do the test flying it before you can begin to fly it. Any > structural repairs must be approved by the PFA. There are probably more, > but > we are blessed (or cursed) with less restrictive regulations. > > Cy Galley > EAA Safety Programs Editor > Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hunt Malcolm" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:13 AM > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL spring gear > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hunt Malcolm" >> >> >> Paul >> >> Firstly all homebuilt aircraft in the UK must be to an approved design >> by the Popular Flying Association (PFA) who act for the Civil Aviation >> Authority (CAA) and will ultimately issue a Permit to Fly. >> >> No changes to the certified design can be made without PFA approval and >> the design certified by the PFA is for the CH601XL model is with CZAW >> modifications which includes the composite main gear. >> >> This gear is two composite legs housed in 4130n steel chambers and with >> modified part 6B11-4; there are also small changes to the transverse >> gear channel. >> >> I suspect the change in weight is close to the mid-range of the c of g >> but obviously no problems in this direction as aircraft certified and >> flying. >> >> Sorry if this is a bit long winded! >> >> Malcolm >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul >> Mulwitz >> Sent: 02 June 2006 11:37 >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL spring gear >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >> > >> >> Malcolm, >> >> First let me apologize for answering a question with a >> question. Alas, I don't have any answers on this one. >> >> My question is: How does changing from a heavy piece of metal to a >> (presumably) lighter piece of fiberglass impact the weight and >> balance of the airplane? Is it necessary to position the landing >> gear in a different location? >> >> Also, do you know why you must use the composite gear in the UK? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Paul >> XL wings >> do not archive >> >> >>>I have just ordered the composite legs (mandatory in UK) from CZAW and >>>these cost 867 USD including shipping and tax (19%) which is just for >>>the legs with no fittings whatsoever. >>> > > __________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:36 PM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC Philip I agree with Jim. My nose wheel already has more weight on it with the 0-360 than I want. I have never felt the need for more power. I normally have my cruise prop on because I get out in a couple hundred feet and still have a 100 MPH cruise. How much shorter do you want to get out? It takes more runway to get my 801 in than it does to get out. I don't think you will pick up a significant amount of speed with a larger engine. If you lived in a really high location, I would recommend a turbocharger on a 0-360. I would trade down if I were you. Bill Wilcox N801BW Valdez, AK 260 hrs On floats shortly!!!!!! Time: 09:32:38 AM PST US From: "Jim Frisby" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info needed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" Philip, I'm sure you know that the O-540 is WAY heavier than the 801 was designed for. Does ZAC have any recommendations or cautions for going with this engine? The CH801 is only going to go about a hundred or 110 mph, no matter how much power you have, maybe consider trading the 540 for an O-360. I have an O-320 in mine, and it could use more power for climbing when heavy, although heavy takeoffs are no problem. I have flown in a 360 powered 801 and it is not much faster than mine, although it does climb better when loaded. In my opinion, the 360 is really the ideal engine for this design. Jim Frisby N801ZA Palmer, AK >Time: 07:03:06 AM PST US >Subject: Zenith-List: Lycoming O-540 Engine Mount For 801 - Info >needed...... >From: "Condon, Philip M." > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Condon, Philip M." > >Can anyone supply any info on a engine mount for the 801 and a Lycoming >O-540 ? I own the engine, hence the search for a mount. Can a Zenith >O-360 mount be used on the O-540 ? Will accessories clear ? Is there a >shop that supplies this other then the Factory? I searched the >archives and found only Travis's web site..... > >Thanks > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:17 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Video From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" Well guys, I'm bored, I'm saving money for my wing kit but right now I don't have anything to work on. I made a short video out of pictures from the rudder workshop and construction so far. If you want to see it go to http://www.johnsplane.com/ and click on the link. I hope you enjoy it. John Hines John R. Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Office: 479-878-2449 Mobile: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com www.craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:16 PM PST US From: "Doug Moellering" Subject: Zenith-List: Looking for 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Moellering" Hello everybody. Great list. First time poster here. I am looking to buy a low time 601XL that has already been through its flight test program. I want to use it to obtain my sport pilot ticket. If you have one, or know of one, for sale, clue me in. thanks, Doug Moellering ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:44 PM PST US From: "ron wehba" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Video --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" hey john, what program did you use to make your video, really neat!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hines" Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Video > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > Well guys, I'm bored, I'm saving money for my wing kit but right now I > don't have anything to work on. I made a short video out of pictures > from the rudder workshop and construction so far. If you want to see it > go to http://www.johnsplane.com/ and click on the link. I hope you > enjoy it. > > John Hines > > > John R. Hines > IT Manager > Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. > 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 > Rogers, AR 72756 > Office: 479-878-2449 > Mobile: 479-366-4783 > Fax: 479-631-6224 > John.Hines@craftontull.com > www.craftontull.com > > Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the > needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. > If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. > This message contains confidential information and is intended only for > the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender > immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and > delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient > you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any > action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly > prohibited. > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:05 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ----- Thank you Chris H. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Fritz- That isn't to say I don't want to try an aileron roll! To put your mind at ease, I check out every deviation either through Zenith or EAA Technical . I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid. Bill ====================================================== > > > --------------------------------- > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:22 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL spring gear. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Gary- I think it would be better insurance if the mechanic flew the test flight with his lover. I wouldn't want to be up with the mechanic on the test flight and hear "Did I remember to- Oops"! Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Gower" Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL spring gear. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > Here is a little bit more simple: > > You build it? ..... You fly it! :-) or get a test pilot. > > There was a bush pilot here (some years ago), a good friend of my father. > That went a little farther. > He had a real beautiful Cessna 195. Everytime he had his plane serviced. > He always flew with the mechanic the test flights... I think his best > waranty of a well made repair :-) > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:08 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Video --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" John- Awesome video. When do you find time to build?? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron wehba" Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Video > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" > > hey john, what program did you use to make your video, really neat!!!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hines" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 3:06 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Video > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" >> >> >> Well guys, I'm bored, I'm saving money for my wing kit but right now I >> don't have anything to work on. I made a short video out of pictures >> from the rudder workshop and construction so far. If you want to see it >> go to http://www.johnsplane.com/ and click on the link. I hope you >> enjoy it. >> >> John Hines >> >> >> John R. Hines >> IT Manager >> Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. >> 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 >> Rogers, AR 72756 >> Office: 479-878-2449 >> Mobile: 479-366-4783 >> Fax: 479-631-6224 >> John.Hines@craftontull.com >> www.craftontull.com >> >> Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the >> needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. >> >> >> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and >> intended >> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are >> addressed. >> If you have received this email in error please notify the system >> manager. >> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for >> the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not >> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender >> immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and >> delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended >> recipient >> you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any >> action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly >> prohibited. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:22 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Video From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" I used software called Pinnacle Studio 9 that came with a "Dazzle". It's a video capture device I got last week. It's pretty cool and easy to use. Their web site is: http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Home/ Do you think they will give me a commission big enough to buy my next kit?? John John R. Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Office: 479-878-2449 Mobile: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com www.craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron wehba Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Video --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" hey john, what program did you use to make your video, really neat!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hines" Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Video > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > Well guys, I'm bored, I'm saving money for my wing kit but right now I > don't have anything to work on. I made a short video out of pictures > from the rudder workshop and construction so far. If you want to see it > go to http://www.johnsplane.com/ and click on the link. I hope you > enjoy it. > > John Hines > > > John R. Hines > IT Manager > Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. > 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 > Rogers, AR 72756 > Office: 479-878-2449 > Mobile: 479-366-4783 > Fax: 479-631-6224 > John.Hines@craftontull.com > www.craftontull.com > > Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the > needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. > If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. > This message contains confidential information and is intended only for > the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender > immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and > delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient > you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any > action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly > prohibited. > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:57 PM PST US From: "ron wehba" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Video --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" sure and thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hines" Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Video > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" > > > I used software called Pinnacle Studio 9 that came with a "Dazzle". > It's a video capture device I got last week. It's pretty cool and easy > to use. Their web site is: > http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Home/ > > Do you think they will give me a commission big enough to buy my next > kit?? > > John > > > John R. Hines > IT Manager > Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. > 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 > Rogers, AR 72756 > Office: 479-878-2449 > Mobile: 479-366-4783 > Fax: 479-631-6224 > John.Hines@craftontull.com > www.craftontull.com > > Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the > needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron wehba > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 4:56 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Video > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" > > hey john, what program did you use to make your video, really neat!!!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hines" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 3:06 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Video > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" >> >> >> Well guys, I'm bored, I'm saving money for my wing kit but right now I >> don't have anything to work on. I made a short video out of pictures >> from the rudder workshop and construction so far. If you want to see > it >> go to http://www.johnsplane.com/ and click on the link. I hope you >> enjoy it. >> >> John Hines >> >> >> John R. Hines >> IT Manager >> Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. >> 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 >> Rogers, AR 72756 >> Office: 479-878-2449 >> Mobile: 479-366-4783 >> Fax: 479-631-6224 >> John.Hines@craftontull.com >> www.craftontull.com >> >> Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand > the >> needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. >> >> >> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended >> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > addressed. >> If you have received this email in error please notify the system > manager. >> This message contains confidential information and is intended only > for >> the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should > not >> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender >> immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and >> delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended > recipient >> you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any >> action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly >> prohibited. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. > If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. > This message contains confidential information and is intended only for > the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not > disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender > immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and > delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient > you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any > action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly > prohibited. > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:28 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Zenith-List: Ecofly Engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" I was just searching for more enginge info a couple weeks ago and discovered the Ecofly engine - http://www.ecofly.de/english.htm - based on the 3 cylinder engine used in Smart Cars (Mercedes, I believe). I asked if anyone was importing them or had used the larger engine in a 601XL. Below is the response from the contact person (if anyone wants to see the pictures - let me know and I will forward them - it is the 80hp engine in an HD or HDS): ------------- Hello Mr. Valente, Im sorry but until now we didnt sell any engine into the US. The reason for this is the rigorous liability law in the States. But sooner or later we will enter the US-market, because there is a great potential for us. We are searching for an adequat dealer there. When we found one, you will see it on our website. To your second question: There is one customer here in Germany who has got a Zodiak and who is installing a Smart gasoline engine with 82hp. His e-mail adress is: HirschBE@aol.com (I hope it didnt change) Also you can see some pictures of the Zodiak in the attachement. With best regards Tarek Al-Reda Ecofly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Valentine" Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 2:41 AM Subject: Ecofly in US? Hello, I just wanted to see if anyone is attempting to import any Ecofly engines into the U.S.? Also, do you know if anyone has tried to put one of your engines (75KW) in a Zenith CH601XL? ---------------- Michael Valentine ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:48 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ecofly Engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" Search the archives, there was some traffic on this a few weeks ago. There are three pictures of a 601HD/HDS on the Zenith list with this engine in it. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo4.html, three pictures at the bottom of the page. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:07 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Cordless Drill --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" All- The cordless drill that my wife paid way too much for a Christmas = present many years ago died tonight. Miserable POS only drilled around = 3000 holes and drove around 500 screws. No one has a replacement on sale other than HF. 18v with 2 batteries = for less than $30. Didn't want to buy Chinese, then I looked at the = labels on my Sears. You guessed it. Anyone know where to buy the best Chinese? (Other than Won Chung = Los) Bill ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:13 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ecofly Engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" Sorry - Craig is right. I forgot the reason that the reason I went looking last week was because of the discussion on this forum. The pics that were sent were the same as listed on the site. I just wanted to learn more about the engine and see if any were coming to the U.S. Obviously, the email I posted was the response. Michael do not archive On 6/2/06, Craig Payne wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > Search the archives, there was some traffic on this a few weeks ago. There > are three pictures of a 601HD/HDS on the Zenith list with this engine in it. > > http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo4.html, three pictures at the bottom > of the page. > > -- Craig > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:42 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested on Buying Used Zenith A/C - Kitplanes Magazine Article From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hey Cory...Well as my airplane is now also for sale I guess I can get my same airplane in the mag twice in two episodes...Is that a record?...:) Cheers Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory Emberson Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested on Buying Used Zenith A/C - Kitplanes Magazine Article --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cory Emberson --> Hello everyone, I'm gathering information for the second of a series of articles on buying used homebuilt aircraft, and this installment will cover the Zenith series. If anyone has had experience in buying or selling a previously-owned Zenith, I would love to hear from you. Some items I'm looking for: What are the absolute must-have/must-see features when buying? How do you conduct the pre-buy inspection? What must you look for specifically on a Zenith versus any other aircraft? Also, I'd like to speak to anyone who has experience in performing pre-buys on the Zenith line. (I'll be calling Sebastian a little bit later.) This will be a comprehensive guide, covering as much as we possibly can. I look forward to hearing from you - please feel free to contact me off-line at the following email address (formatted for anti-spam): bootless (at) earthlink (dot) net Thanks! Cory Emberson Contributing Editor Kitplanes Magazine ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:09 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cordless Drill From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I bought a reconditioned Skill C/D from HF..it was total junk. About the cheapest decent quality drill with a smart charger (switches off so you don't cook the battery) was the Paanasonic...A green and black thing with space age styling. The 12V is pretty compact and came with a 12V flashlight (which really is very useful believ it or not). Has a two speed gearbox for hi torque driving of screws. Built half an RV with it and for $80 (from Jerry's) its been really great. Frank 601 HDS, 400 hours, sport pilot compliant for sale! -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 7:05 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Cordless Drill --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" All- The cordless drill that my wife paid way too much for a Christmas = present many years ago died tonight. Miserable POS only drilled around = 3000 holes and drove around 500 screws. No one has a replacement on sale other than HF. 18v with 2 batteries = for less than $30. Didn't want to buy Chinese, then I looked at the = labels on my Sears. You guessed it. Anyone know where to buy the best Chinese? (Other than Won Chung = Los) Bill ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:45 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested on Buying Used Zenith A/C - Kitplanes Magazine Article --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" Hi Frank! Nice to hear from you! For sale, now, eh? Did you get a hold of the Kitplanes editorial calendar, by any chance? I would like to hear about your experiences with potential buyers, and what you've done to prepare it for sale. About to get some sleep now, though. :-) Best, Cory -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 9:24 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested on Buying Used Zenith A/C - Kitplanes Magazine Article --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Hey Cory...Well as my airplane is now also for sale I guess I can get my same airplane in the mag twice in two episodes...Is that a record?...:) Cheers Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory Emberson Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Feedback Requested on Buying Used Zenith A/C - Kitplanes Magazine Article --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cory Emberson --> Hello everyone, I'm gathering information for the second of a series of articles on buying used homebuilt aircraft, and this installment will cover the Zenith series. If anyone has had experience in buying or selling a previously-owned Zenith, I would love to hear from you. Some items I'm looking for: What are the absolute must-have/must-see features when buying? How do you conduct the pre-buy inspection? What must you look for specifically on a Zenith versus any other aircraft? Also, I'd like to speak to anyone who has experience in performing pre-buys on the Zenith line. (I'll be calling Sebastian a little bit later.) This will be a comprehensive guide, covering as much as we possibly can. I look forward to hearing from you - please feel free to contact me off-line at the following email address (formatted for anti-spam): bootless (at) earthlink (dot) net Thanks! Cory Emberson Contributing Editor Kitplanes Magazine ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:31 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ecofly Engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I was reading through the Ecofly/Smart engine's manual and found this: 3. Operating limits" ... Note that the engine in completely unsuited for aerobatic manoeuvres! Do not conduct stall exercises! Surely they mean "spin exercises"? Otherwise isn't that a rather severe restriction? -- Craig