---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/04/06: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:54 AM - ASI Markings and Manual (Jonathan Starke) 2. 06:50 AM - Re: Ecofly Engines (Thilo Kind) 3. 08:58 AM - Re: Looking for 601XL (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 4. 09:31 AM - Drills and wiring (Bill Naumuk) 5. 09:46 AM - Re: Drills and wiring (CH701) 6. 10:10 AM - Test new picture format (Tommy Walker) 7. 10:28 AM - Re: Test new picture format (kevinbonds) 8. 02:33 PM - Re: Test new picture format (Bill Naumuk) 9. 02:33 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bill Naumuk) 10. 03:03 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bryan Martin) 11. 05:39 PM - Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield (Scott) 12. 08:11 PM - 601XL Back and Gut Saving Device (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 13. 09:15 PM - Re: 601XL Back and Gut Saving Device (Jack Russell) 14. 09:41 PM - Re: 601XL Back and Gut Saving Device (john H) 15. 09:43 PM - Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Jon Croke) 16. 11:41 PM - Re: {Spam?} Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! () 17. 11:41 PM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:48 AM PST US From: "Jonathan Starke" Subject: Zenith-List: ASI Markings and Manual --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" Hi All Listers, Does anyone have the standard markings (Numbers) for Zodiac XL including max flap ext speed etc. I have a new ASI and would like to mark it accurately. (in mph), white green yellow and red arcs. Second question, does anyone have a complete flight manual for the XL, with a 912S installed? It would save me a lot of hassle compiling my own. Thnx all, Jonathan Starke ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:32 AM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ecofly Engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi Folks, I just read the operation manual as well. The English version indeed states 'no stalls'. Since I'm fluent in German, I checked their German version, too. The German version states ' no repeated stalls': Interesting to note, that even in the German version they use the English word 'stall' and not the equivalent German word. Otherwise looks like a very interesting engine for the Zodiac. Best regards Thilo Kind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Valentine" Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ecofly Engines > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" > > I saw that too - very curious. I would agree that it can't mean an > aerodynamic stall as that should virtually no effect on the engine. > It is probably not suitable for aerobatics, but are any of the engines > commonly used in a 601? > > Michael > > do not archive > > On 6/3/06, Craig Payne wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > > I was reading through the Ecofly/Smart engine's manual and found this: > > > > > > 3. Operating limits" > > ... > > Note that the engine in completely unsuited for aerobatic manoeuvres! Do not > > conduct stall exercises! > > > > > > Surely they mean "spin exercises"? Otherwise isn't that a rather severe > > restriction? > > > > -- Craig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:08 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Looking for 601XL From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Gee...Makes my 601 HDS (Sport pilot compliant) look like qite a bargain at 24k then....:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Pizer Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:00 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Looking for 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Pizer" Hi Doug, I have a Czech built CH601XL one for sale in Sacramento CA. 150 hours fully loaded and fly's good. The owner could not get a sport pilot license because he lost his medical. $ 59,500 Ron 775-240-5378 do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Moellering Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Looking for 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Moellering" Hello everybody. Great list. First time poster here. I am looking to buy a low time 601XL that has already been through its flight test program. I want to use it to obtain my sport pilot ticket. If you have one, or know of one, for sale, clue me in. thanks, Doug Moellering ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:49 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring All- The second battery pack was no good from the get-go. Wouldn't charge. So, another trip to Home Depot to exchange for a new drill. I told them I'd give the Ridgid one more chance, but even if I did have a lifetime warranty, I couldn't keep blowing half my weekend returning drills instead of using them. Any more problems and I'm still in the market for something reliable. I did get to install a couple of shop light circuits with the good battery, and the drill performance (Compared to my old Craftsman) is awesome. Hope there are no more problems. Update- both packs charged this time. Incidentally, I looked for the models recommended by listers, but there are no local stores that handle them. As always, thanks for the input. Question for the electricians out there- My big power tools are a drill press, metal band saw, table saw, and belt/disc sander. I plan on adding a wood band saw and Lincoln 240V stick welder down the line. I installed a sub breaker panel from the main and have a 30A 240V circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected outlet circuits, and a 20A lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground. Outlets are double gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'. Can I quit now? I have space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or 2-15A 120 breakers if need be. Please say I'm done! The price of Romex has gone up .30/ft in the past two weeks!!!! Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:54 AM PST US From: "CH701" <701stol@gmail.com> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring Bill, 30A for the welder sounds kind of light - I have a 50A circuit for mine... Todd Do Not Archive _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:30 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring All- The second battery pack was no good from the get-go. Wouldn't charge. So, another trip to Home Depot to exchange for a new drill. I told them I'd give the Ridgid one more chance, but even if I did have a lifetime warranty, I couldn't keep blowing half my weekend returning drills instead of using them. Any more problems and I'm still in the market for something reliable. I did get to install a couple of shop light circuits with the good battery, and the drill performance (Compared to my old Craftsman) is awesome. Hope there are no more problems. Update- both packs charged this time. Incidentally, I looked for the models recommended by listers, but there are no local stores that handle them. As always, thanks for the input. Question for the electricians out there- My big power tools are a drill press, metal band saw, table saw, and belt/disc sander. I plan on adding a wood band saw and Lincoln 240V stick welder down the line. I installed a sub breaker panel from the main and have a 30A 240V circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected outlet circuits, and a 20A lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground. Outlets are double gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'. Can I quit now? I have space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or 2-15A 120 breakers if need be. Please say I'm done! The price of Romex has gone up .30/ft in the past two weeks!!!! Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:07 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Zenith-List: Test new picture format Just testing.... Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:32 AM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Test new picture format Got it. I suggest everyone use a web browser if prompted to "select a program to open this file". Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Walker Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Test new picture format Just testing.... Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:51 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Test new picture format No problem opening with IE6 and XP. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Walker To: Zenith-List@Matronics. Com Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Test new picture format Just testing.... Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:51 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring Todd- Depends on the welder. Just talked to my uncle, who owns the same basic model as I'm considering. He does it on a 20A circuit. New drill doesn't seem as fast as the last on the first battery. I'll swap them and see if there's a difference. Don't you love the price of Romex!? Should have bought copper futures! Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: CH701 To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:45 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring Bill, 30A for the welder sounds kind of light - I have a 50A circuit for mine... Todd Do Not Archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:30 AM To: zenith list Subject: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring All- The second battery pack was no good from the get-go. Wouldn't charge. So, another trip to Home Depot to exchange for a new drill. I told them I'd give the Ridgid one more chance, but even if I did have a lifetime warranty, I couldn't keep blowing half my weekend returning drills instead of using them. Any more problems and I'm still in the market for something reliable. I did get to install a couple of shop light circuits with the good battery, and the drill performance (Compared to my old Craftsman) is awesome. Hope there are no more problems. Update- both packs charged this time. Incidentally, I looked for the models recommended by listers, but there are no local stores that handle them. As always, thanks for the input. Question for the electricians out there- My big power tools are a drill press, metal band saw, table saw, and belt/disc sander. I plan on adding a wood band saw and Lincoln 240V stick welder down the line. I installed a sub breaker panel from the main and have a 30A 240V circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected outlet circuits, and a 20A lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground. Outlets are double gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'. Can I quit now? I have space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or 2-15A 120 breakers if need be. Please say I'm done! The price of Romex has gone up .30/ft in the past two weeks!!!! Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:38 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin You don't have that 30A welder circuit wired with 12 gauge wire do you? It should be wired with 10 gauge wire. Other than that your setup looks good as long as you're not going to be running multiple loads simultaneously on the same circuit. On Jun 4, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > I installed a sub breaker panel from the main and have a 30A > 240V circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected outlet circuits, > and a 20A lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground. > Outlets are double gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'. > Can I quit now? I have space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or > 2-15A 120 breakers if need be. > Please say I'm done! The price of Romex has gone up .30/ft in > the past two weeks!!!! > > Bill > do not archive > > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:54 PM PST US From: Scott Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield --> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott Thx for the info Ben and Gary... Well, I carved out by the forward wing mounts. But, of course I am still 1/8" hanging over the firwall at the top centerline. When you trimmed the front of your windshields. How far left/right of the centerline did you trim? It looks like 330mm or so left and right of the centerline will produce the desired results? Any help is appreciated... Thx... -Scott __________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:17 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Back and Gut Saving Device Dear Thread Friends, I am in the process of removing the rudder peddles and master cylinders to retro fit right side brake peddles and a parking brake. For all you full grown fellows, meaning 200 pounds plus, if you have not yet tried to get something accomplished behind the instrument panel or down near the back of the firewall, you don't know the contortion and pain of standing on you head, face up or down that I've been going through. Not any more! I built two plywood covers, hooked front and rear that cover the seats and your can lay on them to get under the dash. Works great and I can't believe how much more effective my work is when I can breath and not constantly groan in pain. I may even add a cup (bottle) holder. Anybody want a photo let me know. Best to you all, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:16 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Back and Gut Saving Device Anybody want a photo let me know. Best to you all, Bill of Georgia sure would bill. thanks Jack ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:48 PM PST US From: "john H" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL Back and Gut Saving Device --> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" Hi Bill How about attaching the pic to the message and send to the list. If you can't I'd like a pic John >From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Back and Gut Saving Device >Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 23:07:27 EDT > >Dear Thread Friends, I am in the process of removing the rudder peddles and >master cylinders to retro fit right side brake peddles and a parking brake. >For >all you full grown fellows, meaning 200 pounds plus, if you have not yet >tried to get something accomplished behind the instrument panel or down >near the >back of the firewall, you don't know the contortion and pain of standing on >you >head, face up or down that I've been going through. Not any more! I built >two >plywood covers, hooked front and rear that cover the seats and your can lay >on them to get under the dash. Works great and I can't believe how much >more >effective my work is when I can breath and not constantly groan in pain. I >may >even add a cup (bottle) holder. Anybody want a photo let me know. >Best to you all, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:48 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:34 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: {Spam?} Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hello John. Congratulations on your completion and first flight of 701 #2. It is a major accomplishment to have the patient to finish two planes, like you have done. Regarding the rough engine, I would start with the spark plugs and wires if they are ok, then do the sincronising (spelling) of the carbs. Have fun with your new plane. Best wishes, Johann G. Iceland. Z701. Joeing701 > It finally flew! > N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring > brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after > about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on > an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). > > I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I > had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption > would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we > put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the > components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat > enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... > > I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather > average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the > perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane > that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily > with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane > leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not > accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! > > Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things > that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it > still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance > or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to > spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT > view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors > but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the > type of flying I do they are just fine! > > My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was > mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations > on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many > of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with > the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it > yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is > mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the > little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to > build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the > skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost > 15 lbs over the last year)... > > Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this > Zenith-List.... (thank you!) > > Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. > > > Jon > the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:35 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! From: Jon Heartfelt congratulations and a message at least for me = keep it simple and my 701 will eventually fly ! best regards Max ________________________________ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ext Jon Croke Sent: 05 June, 2006 07:43 To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)