Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:38 AM - Vs: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com)
2. 01:28 AM - re; Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (fred sanford)
3. 02:19 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Roger)
4. 04:52 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Zodie Rocket)
5. 04:52 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Ashcraft, Keith -AES)
6. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield (n801bh@netzero.com)
7. 06:04 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings fl ight! (n801bh@netzero.com)
8. 06:06 AM - Builders photo's (Zodie Rocket)
9. 06:56 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Al Young)
10. 07:07 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (LarryMcFarland)
11. 07:07 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
12. 07:14 AM - Michel Royer (P.H. Raker)
13. 07:19 AM - Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) (N5SL)
14. 07:25 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (David Barth)
15. 07:50 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Big Gee)
16. 08:09 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 08:15 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Robert Schoenberger)
18. 08:26 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Jack Russell)
19. 09:17 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Gary Gower)
20. 11:23 AM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Trainnut01@aol.com)
21. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield (Gary Liming)
22. 11:26 AM - Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed (Gary Liming)
23. 11:59 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Tommy Walker)
24. 12:05 PM - Low-speed Airspeed Indicator (Zed Smith)
25. 12:06 PM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Cleone Markwell)
26. 12:13 PM - Re: another Prop for sale (Southern Reflections)
27. 12:44 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed (Paul Mulwitz)
28. 01:00 PM - Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) (Gig Giacona)
29. 03:50 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bill Naumuk)
30. 04:22 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bill Naumuk)
31. 04:30 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Paul Mulwitz)
32. 04:51 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bryan Martin)
33. 04:59 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bryan Martin)
34. 05:03 PM - Running Corvair at Golden West Fly in (JohnKearney@ATT.NET (John Kearney))
35. 05:14 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (Gary Gower)
36. 05:18 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Robin Bellach)
37. 05:31 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bryan Martin)
38. 05:39 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bill Naumuk)
39. 06:20 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (jsimons2)
40. 07:03 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (Paul Mulwitz)
41. 07:28 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (ron dewees)
42. 08:14 PM - Stabilizer Tips (Tim Juhl)
43. 08:14 PM - Stratomaster Enigma (John Hines)
44. 08:51 PM - Re: Stratomaster Enigma (Paul Mulwitz)
45. 09:47 PM - Vs: Builders photo's (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com)
46. 11:50 PM - Re: Stratomaster Enigma (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com
> It finally flew!
> N701US, in its second incarnation
> made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building.
Great! When you are done all flight tests, could you send all performance
information
to my email too! I'm very interested of them.
jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi
"Jon Croke"
<jon@joncroke.com
> Vastaanottaja
Lhettj: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
owner-zenith-list Kopio
-server@matronics
.com Aihe
Zenith-List: Once, a bad
spring; now: this year's spring
05.06.2006 07:42 brings flight!
Vastausta
pyydetn
kyttjlle
zenith-list@matro
nics.com
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (aweak,unauthorizedRotax Carb spring
brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage
after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701,
built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total
financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends....
so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal
contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually
FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we
attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our
workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less
adhered to.....
I have2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather
average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the
perfectionexplained bymany of our readers here... can in fact build a
plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be
landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I
swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho
that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this
is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No
PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in
its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just
didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open
cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will besummer.... I
will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges...
just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second
wasmostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My
observations on kit vs scratch: ... because Ihave just shade tree
mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the
precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size
tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is
not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies
just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc,
etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the
parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it
ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last
year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
Message 2
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| Subject: | re; Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford <sonar1@cox.net>
Congratulations Jon - and I want to thank you for being so forthcoming
with the info on your spring problem.
When we found that our springs were too strong, my partner wanted - even
insisted that we put in some smaller ones. Only your story saved us.
I've got 70 hours now, lots of fun. Thanks again................
Fred Sanford , California, 80 hp
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
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HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
Jon, congrats! You have put a lot of effort into building your 701
=93Twice=94 but most importantly, you were willing to share with this
list
the reason for your re-build! Many have learned from your mishap and
from that came the birth of HYPERLINK
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"www.homebuilthelp.com , which is your
ongoing determination to help all builders learn and avoid mistakes.
This list is a great resource for learning but Jon has taken the time to
produce video=92s which cover almost everything a new and even a
seasoned
builder needs to know in order to build and register a Zenith plane. As
unfortunate, as Jon=92s accident was in his original 701 what spawned
from
that event has truly been a blessing. For those who have never visited
his website at HYPERLINK
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"www.homebuilthelp.com have a peek, for
new builders or those prospecting the building adventure the job Jon has
done with his video=92s will eliminate two or more years of learning,
not
to mention the time saved in registration and building.
So Jon, Congrats to you on your second first flight ! But more
importantly THANK-YOU for your dedication towards the builders!!
cdngoose
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring
brings flight!
It finally flew!
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
--
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
Congratulations Jon!!!
Put a picture of it up on your CH701.com site, so that those of use
still pounding away can ooohhh and aawwwwhhhhh:):)
Once again, congratulations and keep us informed on flying status.
Keith
CH701 -- 8% -- scratch -- still cutting and pounding away!!
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
*************************************************************************
******
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb
spring
brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage
after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built
701,
built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total
financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both
ends....
so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal
contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually
FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that
we
attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our
workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or
less
adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a
rather
average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to
the
perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a
plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be
landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I
swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even
tho
that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that
this
is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No
PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in
its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just
didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open
cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I
will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy
gauges...
just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second
was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My
observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree
mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the
precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size
tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it
is
not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it
flies
just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples,
etc,
etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the
parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and
it
ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last
year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield |
I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The windshield
blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I remember correctly
once you have it fit you will need to trim it along the top where it mat
es with the top plexiglas. Just go slow and will work work out great. On
e thing I did to mine was to replace the clear top glass with a tinted o
ne. It costs 30 bucks or so and I stay ALOT cooler in the cockpit. Any g
lass shop close to ya will have it in stock.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com>
Thx for the info Ben and Gary...
Well, I carved out by the forward wing mounts. But,
of course I am still 1/8" hanging over the firwall at
the top centerline.
When you trimmed the front of your windshields. How
far left/right of the centerline did you trim? It
looks like 330mm or so left and right of the
centerline will produce the desired results?
Any help is appreciated...
Thx...
-Scott
__________________________________________________
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html><P>I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The wi
ndshield blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I remember c
orrectly once you have it fit you will need to trim it along the top whe
re it mates with the top plexiglas. Just go slow and will work work out
great. One thing I did to mine was to replace the clear top glass with a
tinted one. It costs 30 bucks or so and I stay ALOT cooler in the cockp
it. Any glass shop close to ya will have it in stock.</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com> wrote:<B
R>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott&n
bsp;<squiggles@yahoo.com><BR><BR>Thx for the info&n
bsp;Ben and Gary...<BR><BR>Well, I carved out&n
bsp;by the forward wing mounts. But,<BR>o
f course I am still 1/8" hanging over
the firwall at<BR>the top centerline.<BR><BR>W
hen you trimmed the front of your win
dshields. How<BR>far left/right of the ce
nterline did you trim? It<BR>looks like&n
bsp;330mm or so left and right of the
<BR>centerline will produce the desired results
?<BR><BR>Any help is appreciated...<BR><BR>Thx...<BR>-Sco
tt<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Tired&nb
sp;of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best
========================
========================
sp; - The Zenith-List Email Forum&n
utilities such as the Subscriptions page,
========================
= &nb
sp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -<BR>_
-= Check out the All New Matronics
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
========================
- List&
p; &nbs
p; &nbs
p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
========================
========================
===========<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <BR>&nb
sp;</P></html>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings fl |
ight!
Right on Jon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the Phoniex has risen.....
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized
Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made
its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly
scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engin
e were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my proper
y... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full p
ower and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb o
ver the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the de
signer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right
side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge
distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and
many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a s
imple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by ma
ny of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first
time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special
training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the
ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it st
ill is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my econo
mic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT
affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still
flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or
handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to s
pend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT vi
ew... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some door
s but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...
for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit
(the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a fe
w components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scrat
ch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own
fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the
kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it your
self the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechani
cally safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little
innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to b
uild when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all
the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(
but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accompli
shed this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I
can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jonthe aluminum
butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
<html><P>Right on Jon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the Phoniex has ris
en.....</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
wrote:<BR></P>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It finally flew!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>N701US, in its second incarnation (a&nb
sp;weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the origi
nal 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years o
f building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an econo
my budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss).</FON
T></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have a 1000' grass runway on my prope
ry... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full
power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb
over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the d
esigner, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (righ
t side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet
edge distances were more or less adhered to.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have 2 hours of flight and many
touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a si
mple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained b
y many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies
the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with n
o special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane
leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not a
ccurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!</
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Due to my economic restrictions, I also
learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to h
ave a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without
paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling with
out paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND
saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view..
. a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doo
rs but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the bas
ics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! </FONT>
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My first 701 was a kit (the one that di
ed in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components
purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ...
because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own f
abricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the ki
t... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourse
lf the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanica
lly safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little in
nacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to bui
ld when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all t
he skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(bu
t I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Truly could not have accomplished this
feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now if I can keep this thing in the sky
and out of the trees..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jon</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the aluminum butcher of Brussels
(Brussels, Wisconsin)</FONT></DIV></html>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Builders photo's |
EVERYONE , I need your pictures!!! Please send pictures of you or a
loved one sitting in your unfinished plane making propeller noises, or
just sitting in your plane is fine. Below is the best one yet from Rick
Roberts , can you top that? Please send anything to HYPERLINK
"mailto:pictures@can-zacaviation.com"pictures@can-zacaviation.com I am
in a bit of a rush so please hurry I need about 75 pictures
Thanks Mark
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
--
--
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
Jon- great news. Congrats. I am just finishing up my re-build so I
can understand where you are coming from. Best of luck in all future
flights.
Al Young
N601AY- second time around
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Croke
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring
brings flight!
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb
spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden
voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch
built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a
total financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both
ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this
metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and
actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the
hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up)....
that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were
more or less adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a
rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled
to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact
build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and
can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to
fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph
indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close
enough to say that this is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No
PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in
its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just
didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open
cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I
will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy
gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just
fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second
was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My
observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree
mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the
precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size
tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it
is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it
flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge
ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to
make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of
.016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over
the last year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Jon,
Congratulations. You've won the contest for endurance and the respect
of everyone here for hanging in
through what must have been a really tough time. Probably don't have to
add "Do fly safe".
Good luck and again, congratulations,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Jon Croke wrote:
> It finally flew!
>
> N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb
> spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden
> voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch
> built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were
> a total financial loss).
>
>
> Jon
> the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
Jon, great story of success ! Many of us would have folded out tents and went
home, but you battled back. You are to be commended for your ability and
tenacity. A true aviator. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
do not archive
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" <n556p@yahoo.com>
Would Michel Royer please contact me off-list. I need some information
regarding your HDS for sale. Thanx muchly.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
__________________________________________________
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) |
Mark:
I just sent you a few in high-resolution. Attached is
a preview of one of them.
Have a good day,
Scott Laughlin
--- Zodie Rocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote:
> EVERYONE , I need your pictures!!!
>
__________________________________________________
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Congratulations my friend! Fly safe and have a blast.
I look forward to flying with you at some point.
David
--- Jon Croke <jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
> It finally flew!
>
>>
> Jon
> the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels,
Wisconsin)
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
__________________________________________________
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
Congratulations Jon--------- I really enjoyed your story and feel that this is
what it is all about. I have a whole lot of respect for what you have accomplished
and I wish the "movement" would swing back more towards the grass roots
of things, vs. the 200 mph "glass" planes.
I know first hand (from building my 701) when you go to a fly-in, and the person
who will point out that "one rivet out of line" is the same person who hasn't
even started building his airplane yet, but when he does, "all his rivets
will be in straight line." ( I heard that more than once, from the "experts".)
I flew my 701 for a year before painting it. I did enjoy the view with full
Lexan doors, and I also had the "optional" windows which could be opened in flight.
I think they were a nice feature as one could fly and rest your arm on
the open "window sill", gave a lot of elbow room. ( I mention this to let you
know, they were very inexpensive to build, afforded the same view as" no doors",
yet kept the wind out.)
Again, your story touched my heart, as my motto has been: " build it safe, build
it to have fun, do the best I can with what I have to work with"
Fritz--- Corvair -- plans building XL-- 90% done---90% to go
Jon Croke <jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought
down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about
2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy
budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I
had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would
leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put
in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components
properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that
rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average
builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection
explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies
the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special
training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the
ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is
relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that
do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still
flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling
without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND
saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little
windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed
to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do
they are just fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly
scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit
vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my
own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit...
hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the
first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I
hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge
ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make
the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and
it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List....
(thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries)
for 2/min or less.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
Jon...Awesome news!
You have been an inspiration in pulling back from such a downer.
My hat is off to you.
Frank
RV7a....First successful spray painting!
________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight!
It finally flew!
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
Jon . . . I'm very happy for you and look forward to reports on No. 2's
performance - glide ability, landing characteristics, etc. Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Croke
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 12:42 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring
brings flight!
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb
spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden
voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch
built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a
total financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both
ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this
metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and
actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the
hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up)....
that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were
more or less adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a
rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled
to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact
build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and
can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to
fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph
indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close
enough to say that this is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No
PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in
its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just
didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open
cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I
will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy
gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just
fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second
was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My
observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree
mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the
precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size
tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it
is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it
flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge
ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to
make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of
.016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over
the last year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
Jon: I remember your saga with the trees very well. You sure did get back on the
horse or in this case the plane. Congrats! Jack in los osos ca. do not archive
Al Young <armyret@mchsi.com> wrote: Jon- great news. Congrats. I am
just finishing up my re-build so I can understand where you are coming from.
Best of luck in all future flights.
Al Young
N601AY- second time around
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Croke
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight!
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought
down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about
2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy
budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I
had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would
leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put
in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components
properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that
rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average
builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection
explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies
the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special
training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the
ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is
relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that
do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still
flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling
without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND
saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little
windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed
to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do
they are just fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly
scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit
vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my
own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit...
hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the
first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I
hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge
ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make
the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and
it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List....
(thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
Congratulations Jon!!!!
I knew you could make it, Yes, was a good idea to build it second time.
Lots of hours of flight and happiness in years to come..
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
Jon Croke <jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought
down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about
2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy
budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I
had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would
leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put
in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components
properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that
rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average
builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection
explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies
the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special
training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the
ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is
relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that
do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still
flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling
without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND
saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little
windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed
to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do
they are just fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly
scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit
vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my
own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit...
hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the
first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I
hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge
ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make
the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and
it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List....
(thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
__________________________________________________
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Cordless drill outcome |
Bill
I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a large
deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws garage (3 inch screws)
a
1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a RV7 and am now almost done with the
wings and tail of my 601. I am still using the same drill and it still works
fine. I have two battery packs, one is always in the the drill and the
other is always on charge. The batteries do seem to require changing more often
as they age but that is not much of a problem. If the DeWalt dies tonight I
will buy another one tomorrow, just like it if I can.
Carroll Jernigan
XL
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
Yep, did the same thing - put grey tinted Lexan on the top. Trimmed
a bit off the top so that it would lay down better with the trim
strip in the photo, and the amount trimmed off the bottom was the
same all the way around.
Gary
At 07:57 AM 6/5/2006, you wrote:
>I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The
>windshield blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I
>remember correctly once you have it fit you will need to trim it
>along the top where it mates with the top plexiglas. Just go slow
>and will work work out great. One thing I did to mine was to replace
>the clear top glass with a tinted one. It costs 30 bucks or so and I
>stay ALOT cooler in the cockpit. Any glass shop close to ya will
>have it in stock.
>
>do not archive
>
>
>Ben Haas
>N801BH
>www.haaspowerair.com
>
>-- Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com> wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com>
>
>Thx for the info Ben and Gary...
>
>Well, I carved out by the forward wing mounts. But,
>of course I am still 1/8" hanging over the firwall at
>the top centerline.
>
>When you trimmed the front of your windshields. How
>far left/right of the centerline did you trim? It
>looks like 330mm or so left and right of the
>centerline will produce the desired results?
Message 22
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| Subject: | Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed |
Congrats, Jon!
At 11:42 PM 6/4/2006, you wrote:
>It finally flew!
> I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph
> indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively
> close enough to say that this is STOL!
That is one thing particular to the 701/801's - getting an airspeed
indicator to work at "low" speeds. By way of experimentation, my
Falcon airspeed indicator doesn't register until about 35-40 mph. My
Dynon D10 doesn't come up until 40, either. This is pretty close to
stall speed, so it would be nice to know of something that has some
accuracy starting at 20-30 mph. My Lift Reserve indicator comes up
sooner, and I do pay attention to that, but anyone know of an
airspeed indicator that is more sensitive at the slower
speeds? Anyone have any real experience with when the ultralight
style airspeed indicators "come up?"
Gary
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! |
Congratulations Jon!
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Low-speed Airspeed Indicator |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Spruce lists several indicators for the low-and-slow crowd at a bit over US$100.
Some require a pitot that resembles a metal sewing thimble affixed to the end
of a metal tube. Probably to gather more air in the vacuum of slow flight.
Regards,
Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings |
flight!
Hi Jon, I've been waiting to see this e-mail
message. Congratulations! Cleone
At 08:54 AM 6/5/06, you wrote:
>Jon- great news. Congrats. I am just finishing up my re-build so
>I can understand where you are coming from. Best of luck in all
>future flights.
>Al Young
>N601AY- second time around
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:jon@joncroke.com>Jon Croke
>To: <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring
>brings flight!
>
>It finally flew!
>
>N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb
>spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its
>maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly
>scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and
>engine were a total financial loss).
>
>I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both
>ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that
>this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees
>and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer,
>and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right
>side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet
>edge distances were more or less adhered to.....
>
>I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a
>rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never
>leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here...
>can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and
>level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and
>it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at
>about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is
>relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!
>
>Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
>things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun
>plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice
>no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a
>bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of
>time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy...
>but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not
>needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of
>flying I do they are just fine!
>
>My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The
>second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save
>time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just
>shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were
>not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to
>get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first
>time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe
>(I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little
>innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer
>to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020
>for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about
>30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)...
>
>Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
>Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
>
>Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
>
>
>Jon
>the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: another Prop for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Southern Reflections" <purplemoon99@bellsouth.net>
I read this info regarding your prop. I have one just like it therefore
please inform me as to what incompatibilities you have detected.
Anxious to hear from you.
Joe G
----- Original Message -----
From: "gary k" <gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:13 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: another Prop for sale
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary k" <gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com>
>
> Blue, 2-blade composite (wood core) Prince prop. 68" X 62", SAE1
> pattern. May be good for Corvair? Out performs Warp, covers wide range
> of pitch settings w/o having to change pitch. Can't say enough about
> Lonnie Prince and his props, awesome. About 40 hours on prop, still
> like new. Used on Stratus but seems to be incompatible with 2.2:1
> redrive. $750 obo (paid $1000 and well worth it).
>
> gary
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>My Lift Reserve indicator comes up sooner, and I do pay attention to
>that, but anyone know of an airspeed indicator that is more
>sensitive at the slower speeds?
I have installed a Lift Reserve Indicator in my XL, but I am a long
way from flying. I want to ask you about your experience with this
device. With it working at low speeds, why do you want a low speed
airspeed indicator? Is the LRI sufficient to tell you when to
rotate? Perhaps this is just a matter of having a backup indication.
Paul
XL wings.
do not archive
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
You do realize that you have now disqualified your plane for LSA use.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38739#38739
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Drills and wiring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Bryan-
You hit on the one real question mark I had for the layout, and to tell
the truth, I'm puzzled.
I've had my work in the house inspected for insurance purposes twice
over the years, and the only places I was required to use 10g was for the
water heater and water pump. I have heaters in both my bathrooms wired with
12g that have never had a problem (I built the house in '88) and neither
inspector said a thing about them either time. Everyone I've talked to
around here said, yeah, you've got it right for the welder circuit.
I'm getting 234V at the box, and the outlet is only 2' away. If my
lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go with 10g.
As far as the rest of the circuits, I can only run one tool at a time!
Bill
do
not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> You don't have that 30A welder circuit wired with 12 gauge wire do you?
> It should be wired with 10 gauge wire. Other than that your setup looks
> good as long as you're not going to be running multiple loads
> simultaneously on the same circuit.
>
> On Jun 4, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
>> I installed a sub breaker panel from the main and have a 30A 240V
>> circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected outlet circuits, and a 20A
>> lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground. Outlets are double
>> gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'. Can I quit now? I have
>> space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or 2-15A 120 breakers if need
>> be.
>> Please say I'm done! The price of Romex has gone up .30/ft in the
>> past two weeks!!!!
>> Bill
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
> do not archive.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Cordless drill outcome |
Carroll-
Actually, I went in with the intention of buying a DeWalt, but was
hooked by the Ridgid lifetime warranty for $10 more than the price of
the DeWalt. God knows, they're probably both made in the same factory.
The two exceptions seem to be the Pro Line Hitachi and the Bosch. I
finally got to see both.
The Pro Line Hitachi has awesome torque (140 in/lbs higher than the
Ridgid, which is higher than any other brand I originally looked at) for
the same 189.95 price, but twice the charge time and a 5 year warranty.
Definitely worth considering. The Bosch is made in Switzerland (!), but
the price makes you cringe.
Problem is, Carroll, you can't rely on the old brand names any more.
It wasn't too long ago when a Homelite or McCulloch chain saw was the
best you could buy! My Subaru was built in Indiana, my wife's Ford in
Mexico.
Times have changed.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Trainnut01@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome
Bill
I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a
large deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws garage (3
inch screws) a 1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a RV7 and am now
almost done with the wings and tail of my 601. I am still using the same
drill and it still works fine. I have two battery packs, one is always
in the the drill and the other is always on charge. The batteries do
seem to require changing more often as they age but that is not much of
a problem. If the DeWalt dies tonight I will buy another one tomorrow,
just like it if I can.
Carroll Jernigan
XL
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Drills and wiring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote:
>If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and
>go with 10g.
Bill,
The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit
breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result
of the current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard
used in electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10
degrees Celsius. If you let the wires get really hot there is a risk of fire.
Have fun,
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Drills and wiring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
In most cases, a 30 amp circuit must be wired with 10 gauge wire. But
after further research in the NEC, I see that welder circuits are an
exception to the rule. Article 630 allows the size of the conductor
to be reduced according to the duty cycle of the welder, so your
circuit is probably correct.
The voltage of the circuit is irrelevent, the current rating of the
load is the important factor. The circuit breaker is usually sized to
protect the wire in the circuit from overheating due to too much
current flow.
Your 240 volt electric space heaters are probably rated at less than
16 Amps which would allow a 20 Amp breaker and 12 guage wire.
I used to be an electrician but I haven't worked in that field for
several years so some of this stuff has faded from memory.
On Jun 5, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>
> Bryan-
> You hit on the one real question mark I had for the layout, and
> to tell the truth, I'm puzzled.
> I've had my work in the house inspected for insurance purposes
> twice over the years, and the only places I was required to use 10g
> was for the water heater and water pump. I have heaters in both my
> bathrooms wired with 12g that have never had a problem (I built the
> house in '88) and neither inspector said a thing about them either
> time. Everyone I've talked to around here said, yeah, you've got it
> right for the welder circuit.
> I'm getting 234V at the box, and the outlet is only 2' away. If
> my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go
> with 10g.
> As far as the rest of the circuits, I can only run one tool at a
> time!
>
>
> Bill
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cordless drill outcome |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
A ten year old DeWalt is probably not the same as a new one. The
design was changed several years ago and tne newer ones aren't as
good. DeWalt is now a division of Black and Decker, which is a
division of GE and some of the worst junk in the history of
electricity have come from GE.
RCA used to be one of the better electronics firms until they were
bought out by GE and now they make nothing but junk.
On Jun 5, 2006, at 7:21 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:
> Carroll-
> Actually, I went in with the intention of buying a DeWalt, but
> was hooked by the Ridgid lifetime warranty for $10 more than the
> price of the DeWalt. God knows, they're probably both made in the
> same factory.
> The two exceptions seem to be the Pro Line Hitachi and the
> Bosch. I finally got to see both.
> The Pro Line Hitachi has awesome torque (140 in/lbs higher than
> the Ridgid, which is higher than any other brand I originally
> looked at) for the same 189.95 price, but twice the charge time and
> a 5 year warranty. Definitely worth considering. The Bosch is made
> in Switzerland (!), but the price makes you cringe.
> Problem is, Carroll, you can't rely on the old brand names any
> more. It wasn't too long ago when a Homelite or McCulloch chain saw
> was the best you could buy! My Subaru was built in Indiana, my
> wife's Ford in Mexico.
> Times have changed.
>
>
> Bill
>
> do not archive
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Trainnut01@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome
>
> Bill
> I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a
> large deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws
> garage (3 inch screws) a 1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a
> RV7 and am now almost done with the wings and tail of my 601. I am
> still using the same drill and it still works fine. I have two
> battery packs, one is always in the the drill and the other is
> always on charge. The batteries do seem to require changing more
> often as they age but that is not much of a problem. If the DeWalt
> dies tonight I will buy another one tomorrow, just like it if I can.
> Carroll Jernigan
> XL
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Running Corvair at Golden West Fly in |
Hi all,
I will have my running corvair engine at the Zenith/Quality Sport Planes Booth
at the Golden West Flyin this weekend. Come on by and lets talk corvair and the
Zodiac 601XL.
Best regards
John
--
John and Jean Kearney
Builders Turbo Corvair
Zenith Aircraft
Zodiac 601XL
<html>
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<head></head>
<body>
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
<DIV>Hi all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I will have my running corvair engine at the Zenith/Quality Sport Planes Booth
at the Golden West Flyin this weekend. Come on by and lets talk corvair and
the Zodiac 601XL.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best regards</DIV>
<DIV>John<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>John and Jean Kearney <BR>Builders Turbo
Corvair <BR>Zenith Aircraft <BR>Zodiac 601XL</DIV>
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
</body>
</html>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI |
Hello Paul,
I have mine installed in the 701, Is a diferent type of airplane that the 601,
because the 701 has two diferent angle of attack in the wing.
One without the slots working (normal approach) and another diferent angle of
attack in the flare (when the slots beguin to work).
We use our LRI calibrated at normal approach angle of attack for two reasons:
First We fly at diferent altitudes here and diferent sizes of landing strips,
so a slow aproach without loosing glide angle/speed is important.
And second the STOL flair/approach in the 701 is so slow and close to the ground
that sincerely, there is no time to glance at the LRI. We just keep the
eyes on the strip trough the side of the windshield that instant before touch
down...
I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI installed, but I am
very far from the kit looking as an airplane...
Here is one good article that explains how the LRI works in a "normal" type of
wing. (If there is something close to "normal wing" in modern homebuilt airplanes
:-)
In this article is an instalation in a RV6.
Very similar way, was how it was explained to me by a local bush pilot that
has one installed in his airplane and talked me to install one.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm
Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive short field
landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will say (in my case).
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>My Lift Reserve indicator comes up sooner, and I do pay attention to
>that, but anyone know of an airspeed indicator that is more
>sensitive at the slower speeds?
I have installed a Lift Reserve Indicator in my XL, but I am a long
way from flying. I want to ask you about your experience with this
device. With it working at low speeds, why do you want a low speed
airspeed indicator? Is the LRI sufficient to tell you when to
rotate? Perhaps this is just a matter of having a backup indication.
Paul
XL wings.
do not archive
__________________________________________________
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Drills and wiring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
While the whole shop is burning down and melting everyting in it you will
briefly have plenty of light while you consider the choice of using an
oversized breaker with undersized wire, and may develop a new perspective on
dim lights.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
> At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote:
>>If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go
>>with 10g.
>
>
> Bill,
>
> The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit
> breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result of the
> current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard used in
> electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10 degrees Celsius.
> If you let the wires get really hot there is a risk of fire.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Paul
> XL wings
> do not archive
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Paul Mulwitz
> 32013 NE Dial Road
> Camas, WA 98607
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Drills and wiring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The primary reason for a choosing a particular wire size is to
prevent overheating due to current. But for long wire runs, voltage
drop also becomes a factor, the wires should be sized to prevent a
voltage drop of more than 3% at the farthest end of a branch circuit.
If you don't follow this guide, you won't cause your lights to dim or
circuit breakers to pop, your load will just run at under its rated
voltage. For a motor circuit, this can be a problem as motors don't
like running under speed. This is one reason major appliances can be
damaged during a "brown-out". If you've ever run a large drill motor
at the end of a long extension cord, you may have encountered this
situation. A 50 foot extension cord will be rated at a lower current
than a ten foot cord even if both use the same size wire.
On Jun 5, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
> At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote:
>> If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why
>> and go with 10g.
>
>
> Bill,
>
> The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit
> breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result
> of the current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard
> used in electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10
> degrees Celsius. If you let the wires get really hot there is a
> risk of fire.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Paul
> XL wings
> do not archive
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cordless drill outcome |
All-
Before I go any farther, let me tell you that my first arc-welding
experience was cutting up junk cars in the middle of a field, with the
welder connected with a 100' roll of 12 /2 to two 10A fuses in a barn.
That said, I plugged a batch of high drain corded devices in 3
outlets, and turned on every light in the new shop. I was able to get a
slight dimming of the lights.
Save your breath. This is probably my only chance to build MY
workshop, the way I want it. I've already spent more than I did on my
kit, so what the Hell?
I'll replace the 12/2 inlet lines with 10g ASAP.
Bill
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Drills and wiring |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" <jsimons4@triad.rr.com>
Go with the 10 gauge wire and be safe. Most welders require a 30 amp circuit due
to their current draw. The only time that #12 gauge wire is allowed to be on
a circuit that is protected by more than a 20 amp breaker is on A/C and refridgeration
equipment. It is then limited to no more than 25 amps minimum circuit
ampacity. This is due to the high, but short duration, startup draw of compressors.
No wire is allowed more than 80% of its rating for continuous load. The
other receptacle circuits should be fine due to the fact that you will probably
never use more than one piece of equipment at a time. All of my info comes
straight from the NEC (National Electrical Code). My qualifications?? Senior
electrical inspector for the city where I live and over 28 years in the business.
Jerome Simons
very near future 601 HDS scrap builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38823#38823
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI |
Hi Gary,
Thank you for the article link on flying the LRI. I enjoyed reading
it and got my ideas about it reinforced. It sounds to me like a much
better instrument to use for critical airspeed control than the
airspeed indicator. Of course you can still use the nose "Picture"
on the horizon to control your speed as well, but the LRI sounds like
a nice precise way to get nearly maximum performance from your plane
on both takeoff and landing.
I understand your comment about not wanting to take your eyes off the
runway on landing approach to check the LRI. There may be several
ways to deal with this problem. Let me suggest a few:
1. You can set up your approach at the desired LRI indication. Then
look at the pitch on the nose of your plane and hold the same pitch
while using the same power/airspeed and flap setting. This should
hold the same LRI indication.
2. I have seen many AOA indicators - particularly the kind with
colored lights - mounted above the instrument panel so the indication
is easy to see while looking out the windshield. You could mount
your LRI indicator either on top of the panel or at the top-most
position in the center of your viewing image. This would make it
very easy to find the indicator at the critical moments.
3. If you have already mounted your indicator at a remote location
in your instrument panel, you might be able to make an optical path
to make it visible from above the panel. This might be similar to
the mirrors used in a "Periscope". Place one rectangular or oval
mirror below the gauge and mount another one above the panel in line
with the other mirror. Then you should be able to see the instrument
face while looking out the windshield.
In any case, I am happy I decided to install one of these instruments
in my XL. I think I will put it on the topmost row of instruments -
perhaps right next to the EFIS.
Thanks again,
Paul
XL wings (nearly done)
At 05:13 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote:
>Hello Paul,
>
>We use our LRI calibrated at normal approach angle of attack for two
>reasons:
>
>First We fly at diferent altitudes here and diferent sizes of
>landing strips, so a slow aproach without loosing glide
>angle/speed is important.
>
>And second the STOL flair/approach in the 701 is so slow and close
>to the ground that sincerely, there is no time to glance at the
>LRI. We just keep the eyes on the strip trough the side of the
>windshield that instant before touch down...
>
>I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI
>installed, but I am very far from the kit looking as an airplane...
>
>Here is one good article that explains how the LRI works in a
>"normal" type of wing. (If there is something close to "normal
>wing" in modern homebuilt airplanes :-)
>
><http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm>http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm
>
>Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive
>short field landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will
>say (in my case).
>
>Saludos
>Gary Gower.
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Paul and Gary,
I can't speak to the 701 installation of a LRI but have had a LRI in my
601HDS for almost a year and a half. I posted pictures of the probe and
indicator on Scott Laughlin's website and would not fly without it. My
field is short and rough and I found that my landings were unnecessarily
long and fast. Using the LRI I have shortened the takeoff and landing
distance and cut down considerably on wear and tear on the plane and my
nerves. I highly reccomend one.
As far as being too busy to look at one while close to the ground I
found that it's THE most important instrument to look at close to the
ground. I mounted mine above the instrument panel so it's in my line of
sight as I look out the canopy. A few ex-military pilots recognize it
but almost all GA pilots are clueless as to it's function untill they
see it in action. Total cost was less than $80 or so. Only downside is
that the Dwyer differential pressure gauge used on mine as in indicator
is an odd size-- I guess 3 or 3 1/2 inches so it's hard to put in line
with other instruments. I have seen expensive and complex digital
models that illiminate sequential red or green LEDs but I like the
analog needle that gives immediate feedback on wing's lift. I installed
it to let me know when the wing was about to stall so I could land
slower but found that it's just as handy to lift off short in ground
effect and watch the lift available rise to a safe level before rotating
and climbing out Works just as well to give warning of an impending
departure stall or if you do a high speed turn or chandelle it lets you
know what the state of lift remaining is.
If you ever fly with one you won't be without one. Just don't stick it
in a corner where you can't see it easily.
Ron
Gary Gower wrote:
> Hello Paul,
>
> I have mine installed in the 701, Is a diferent type of airplane
> that the 601, because the 701 has two diferent angle of attack in the
> wing.
>
> I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI installed,
> but I am very far from the kit looking as an airplane...
>
> Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive
> short field landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will
> say (in my case).
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
Message 42
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
I'm sure this subject has come up before, but humor me and give me the benefit
of your collective wisdom.
I'm getting ready to fit the fiberglass tips to my horizontal stabilizer. Looking
at the tips I see a few problems....
1.) They don't fit very snugly within the end of the stab. When you rivet them
will the rivets pull the tip's edges up to the contour of the skins or am I likely
to get some wrinkles in the aluminum skin?
2.) The open edges of the tips are not straight (flat). The edge line is curved
inwards towards the outside center of the tip. Should I sand or dress the
edges until straight?
3.) There are some chips in the fiberglass coating around the edges. Any recommendation
as to what I should use to fill and smooth these areas?
Thanks!
Tim
--------
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Horiz. Stab. & Elev.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38844#38844
Message 43
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| Subject: | Stratomaster Enigma |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool!
http://www.mglavionics.co.za/enigma.html
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines@craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs
of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you
have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message
contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named.
If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute
or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have
received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If
you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
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is strictly prohibited.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Stratomaster Enigma |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool!
It looks pretty cool to me. I think the best way to deal with this
new design is to let someone else suffer the growing pains and wait
for good reviews from actual airplane builders. That should take a
year or two after they start shipping.
For now I will stick with Dynon, Blue Mountain, etc. for my panel to
be built later this year.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | Builders photo's |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com
:-)
http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/DSC03292.JPG
and
http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/DSC03291.JPG
Message 46
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| Subject: | Stratomaster Enigma |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
At last!
If you are in the US an tempted to buy one this is MGL's US dealer:
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/
Great folks: both MGL and Sport Flying Shop.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:10 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Stratomaster Enigma
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
--> <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool!
http://www.mglavionics.co.za/enigma.html
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines@craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender
immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete
this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are
notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in
reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
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