---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/05/06: 46 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - Vs: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com) 2. 01:28 AM - re; Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (fred sanford) 3. 02:19 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Roger) 4. 04:52 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Zodie Rocket) 5. 04:52 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Ashcraft, Keith -AES) 6. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield (n801bh@netzero.com) 7. 06:04 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings fl ight! (n801bh@netzero.com) 8. 06:06 AM - Builders photo's (Zodie Rocket) 9. 06:56 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Al Young) 10. 07:07 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (LarryMcFarland) 11. 07:07 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 12. 07:14 AM - Michel Royer (P.H. Raker) 13. 07:19 AM - Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) (N5SL) 14. 07:25 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (David Barth) 15. 07:50 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Big Gee) 16. 08:09 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 17. 08:15 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Robert Schoenberger) 18. 08:26 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Jack Russell) 19. 09:17 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Gary Gower) 20. 11:23 AM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Trainnut01@aol.com) 21. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield (Gary Liming) 22. 11:26 AM - Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed (Gary Liming) 23. 11:59 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Tommy Walker) 24. 12:05 PM - Low-speed Airspeed Indicator (Zed Smith) 25. 12:06 PM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Cleone Markwell) 26. 12:13 PM - Re: another Prop for sale (Southern Reflections) 27. 12:44 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed (Paul Mulwitz) 28. 01:00 PM - Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) (Gig Giacona) 29. 03:50 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bill Naumuk) 30. 04:22 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bill Naumuk) 31. 04:30 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Paul Mulwitz) 32. 04:51 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bryan Martin) 33. 04:59 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bryan Martin) 34. 05:03 PM - Running Corvair at Golden West Fly in (JohnKearney@ATT.NET (John Kearney)) 35. 05:14 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (Gary Gower) 36. 05:18 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Robin Bellach) 37. 05:31 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bryan Martin) 38. 05:39 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bill Naumuk) 39. 06:20 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (jsimons2) 40. 07:03 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (Paul Mulwitz) 41. 07:28 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (ron dewees) 42. 08:14 PM - Stabilizer Tips (Tim Juhl) 43. 08:14 PM - Stratomaster Enigma (John Hines) 44. 08:51 PM - Re: Stratomaster Enigma (Paul Mulwitz) 45. 09:47 PM - Vs: Builders photo's (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com) 46. 11:50 PM - Re: Stratomaster Enigma (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:47 AM PST US Subject: Vs: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! From: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com > It finally flew! > N701US, in its second incarnation > made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. Great! When you are done all flight tests, could you send all performance information to my email too! I'm very interested of them. jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi "Jon Croke" Vastaanottaja Lhettj: owner-zenith-list Kopio -server@matronics .com Aihe Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring 05.06.2006 07:42 brings flight! Vastausta pyydetn kyttjlle zenith-list@matro nics.com It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (aweak,unauthorizedRotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfectionexplained bymany of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will besummer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second wasmostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because Ihave just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:36 AM PST US From: fred sanford Subject: Zenith-List: re; Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! --> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford Congratulations Jon - and I want to thank you for being so forthcoming with the info on your spring problem. When we found that our springs were too strong, my partner wanted - even insisted that we put in some smaller ones. Only your story saved us. I've got 70 hours now, lots of fun. Thanks again................ Fred Sanford , California, 80 hp do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:29 AM PST US From: Roger Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:39 AM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! Jon, congrats! You have put a lot of effort into building your 701 =93Twice=94 but most importantly, you were willing to share with this list the reason for your re-build! Many have learned from your mishap and from that came the birth of HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"www.homebuilthelp.com , which is your ongoing determination to help all builders learn and avoid mistakes. This list is a great resource for learning but Jon has taken the time to produce video=92s which cover almost everything a new and even a seasoned builder needs to know in order to build and register a Zenith plane. As unfortunate, as Jon=92s accident was in his original 701 what spawned from that event has truly been a blessing. For those who have never visited his website at HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"www.homebuilthelp.com have a peek, for new builders or those prospecting the building adventure the job Jon has done with his video=92s will eliminate two or more years of learning, not to mention the time saved in registration and building. So Jon, Congrats to you on your second first flight ! But more importantly THANK-YOU for your dedication towards the builders!! cdngoose Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) -- -- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:39 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Congratulations Jon!!! Put a picture of it up on your CH701.com site, so that those of use still pounding away can ooohhh and aawwwwhhhhh:):) Once again, congratulations and keep us informed on flying status. Keith CH701 -- 8% -- scratch -- still cutting and pounding away!! N 38.9947 W 105.1305 Alt. 9,100' ************************************************************************* ****** It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intende d solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If yo u have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and d o not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industri es accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mai l. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:19 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The windshield blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I remember correctly once you have it fit you will need to trim it along the top where it mat es with the top plexiglas. Just go slow and will work work out great. On e thing I did to mine was to replace the clear top glass with a tinted o ne. It costs 30 bucks or so and I stay ALOT cooler in the cockpit. Any g lass shop close to ya will have it in stock. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Scott wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott Thx for the info Ben and Gary... Well, I carved out by the forward wing mounts. But, of course I am still 1/8" hanging over the firwall at the top centerline. When you trimmed the front of your windshields. How far left/right of the centerline did you trim? It looks like 330mm or so left and right of the centerline will produce the desired results? Any help is appreciated... Thx... -Scott __________________________________________________ ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The wi ndshield blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I remember c orrectly once you have it fit you will need to trim it along the top whe re it mates with the top plexiglas. Just go slow and will work work out great. One thing I did to mine was to replace the clear top glass with a tinted one. It costs 30 bucks or so and I stay ALOT cooler in the cockp it. Any glass shop close to ya will have it in stock.

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com> wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott&n bsp;<squiggles@yahoo.com>

Thx for the info&n bsp;Ben and Gary...

Well, I carved out&n bsp;by the forward wing mounts.  But,
o f course I am still 1/8" hanging over  the firwall at
the top centerline.

W hen you trimmed the front of your win dshields.  How
far left/right of the ce nterline did you trim?  It
looks like&n bsp;330mm or so left and right of the
centerline will produce the desired results ?

Any help is appreciated...

Thx...
-Sco tt

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________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:56 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings fl ight! Right on Jon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the Phoniex has risen..... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Jon Croke" wrote: It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engin e were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my proper y... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full p ower and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb o ver the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the de signer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a s imple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by ma ny of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it st ill is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my econo mic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to s pend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT vi ew... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some door s but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics... for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a fe w components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scrat ch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it your self the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechani cally safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to b uild when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...( but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accompli shed this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jonthe aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)

Right on Jon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the Phoniex has ris en.....

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>  wrote:

It finally flew!
 
N701US, in its second incarnation (a&nb sp;weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the origi nal 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years o f building.  This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an econo my budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss).
 
I have a 1000' grass runway on my prope ry... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the d esigner, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (righ t side up)....  that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to.....
 
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder -  with a si mple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained b y many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with n o special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly!  I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not a ccurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!
 
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to h ave a safe, fun plane....  No PAINT... it still flies great without paint!  I notice no difference in its performance or handling with out paint...saved a bundle in $$  (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time!  No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view.. . a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doo rs but they are not needed to fly!  No fancy gauges... just the bas ics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine!  
 
My first 701 was a kit (the one that di ed in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)...  My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own f abricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the ki t... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourse lf the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanica lly safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little in nacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to bui ld when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all t he skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(bu t I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... 
 
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
 
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
 
 
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels  (Brussels, Wisconsin)
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:38 AM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Builders photo's EVERYONE , I need your pictures!!! Please send pictures of you or a loved one sitting in your unfinished plane making propeller noises, or just sitting in your plane is fine. Below is the best one yet from Rick Roberts , can you top that? Please send anything to HYPERLINK "mailto:pictures@can-zacaviation.com"pictures@can-zacaviation.com I am in a bit of a rush so please hurry I need about 75 pictures Thanks Mark Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -- -- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:11 AM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! Jon- great news. Congrats. I am just finishing up my re-build so I can understand where you are coming from. Best of luck in all future flights. Al Young N601AY- second time around ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Croke To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:00 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Jon, Congratulations. You've won the contest for endurance and the respect of everyone here for hanging in through what must have been a really tough time. Probably don't have to add "Do fly safe". Good luck and again, congratulations, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Jon Croke wrote: > It finally flew! > > N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb > spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden > voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch > built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were > a total financial loss). > > > Jon > the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:00 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! Jon, great story of success ! Many of us would have folded out tents and went home, but you battled back. You are to be commended for your ability and tenacity. A true aviator. Best regards, Bill of Georgia do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:47 AM PST US From: "P.H. Raker" Subject: Zenith-List: Michel Royer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" Would Michel Royer please contact me off-list. I need some information regarding your HDS for sale. Thanx muchly. Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:06 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) Mark: I just sent you a few in high-resolution. Attached is a preview of one of them. Have a good day, Scott Laughlin --- Zodie Rocket wrote: > EVERYONE , I need your pictures!!! > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:01 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Congratulations my friend! Fly safe and have a blast. I look forward to flying with you at some point. David --- Jon Croke wrote: > It finally flew! > >> > Jon > the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:54 AM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! Congratulations Jon--------- I really enjoyed your story and feel that this is what it is all about. I have a whole lot of respect for what you have accomplished and I wish the "movement" would swing back more towards the grass roots of things, vs. the 200 mph "glass" planes. I know first hand (from building my 701) when you go to a fly-in, and the person who will point out that "one rivet out of line" is the same person who hasn't even started building his airplane yet, but when he does, "all his rivets will be in straight line." ( I heard that more than once, from the "experts".) I flew my 701 for a year before painting it. I did enjoy the view with full Lexan doors, and I also had the "optional" windows which could be opened in flight. I think they were a nice feature as one could fly and rest your arm on the open "window sill", gave a lot of elbow room. ( I mention this to let you know, they were very inexpensive to build, afforded the same view as" no doors", yet kept the wind out.) Again, your story touched my heart, as my motto has been: " build it safe, build it to have fun, do the best I can with what I have to work with" Fritz--- Corvair -- plans building XL-- 90% done---90% to go Jon Croke wrote: It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2/min or less. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Jon...Awesome news! You have been an inspiration in pulling back from such a downer. My hat is off to you. Frank RV7a....First successful spray painting! ________________________________ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:43 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:00 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! Jon . . . I'm very happy for you and look forward to reports on No. 2's performance - glide ability, landing characteristics, etc. Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Croke To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 12:42 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:30 AM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! Jon: I remember your saga with the trees very well. You sure did get back on the horse or in this case the plane. Congrats! Jack in los osos ca. do not archive Al Young wrote: Jon- great news. Congrats. I am just finishing up my re-build so I can understand where you are coming from. Best of luck in all future flights. Al Young N601AY- second time around ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Croke To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:04 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! Congratulations Jon!!!! I knew you could make it, Yes, was a good idea to build it second time. Lots of hours of flight and happiness in years to come.. Saludos Gary Gower. Do not archive. Jon Croke wrote: It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:06 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome Bill I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a large deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws garage (3 inch screws) a 1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a RV7 and am now almost done with the wings and tail of my 601. I am still using the same drill and it still works fine. I have two battery packs, one is always in the the drill and the other is always on charge. The batteries do seem to require changing more often as they age but that is not much of a problem. If the DeWalt dies tonight I will buy another one tomorrow, just like it if I can. Carroll Jernigan XL ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:06 AM PST US From: Gary Liming Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming Yep, did the same thing - put grey tinted Lexan on the top. Trimmed a bit off the top so that it would lay down better with the trim strip in the photo, and the amount trimmed off the bottom was the same all the way around. Gary At 07:57 AM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The >windshield blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I >remember correctly once you have it fit you will need to trim it >along the top where it mates with the top plexiglas. Just go slow >and will work work out great. One thing I did to mine was to replace >the clear top glass with a tinted one. It costs 30 bucks or so and I >stay ALOT cooler in the cockpit. Any glass shop close to ya will >have it in stock. > >do not archive > > >Ben Haas >N801BH >www.haaspowerair.com > >-- Scott wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott > >Thx for the info Ben and Gary... > >Well, I carved out by the forward wing mounts. But, >of course I am still 1/8" hanging over the firwall at >the top centerline. > >When you trimmed the front of your windshields. How >far left/right of the centerline did you trim? It >looks like 330mm or so left and right of the >centerline will produce the desired results? ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:23 AM PST US From: Gary Liming Subject: Zenith-List: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed Congrats, Jon! At 11:42 PM 6/4/2006, you wrote: >It finally flew! > I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph > indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively > close enough to say that this is STOL! That is one thing particular to the 701/801's - getting an airspeed indicator to work at "low" speeds. By way of experimentation, my Falcon airspeed indicator doesn't register until about 35-40 mph. My Dynon D10 doesn't come up until 40, either. This is pretty close to stall speed, so it would be nice to know of something that has some accuracy starting at 20-30 mph. My Lift Reserve indicator comes up sooner, and I do pay attention to that, but anyone know of an airspeed indicator that is more sensitive at the slower speeds? Anyone have any real experience with when the ultralight style airspeed indicators "come up?" Gary ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:01 AM PST US From: "Tommy Walker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! Congratulations Jon! Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:43 PM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: Low-speed Airspeed Indicator --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Spruce lists several indicators for the low-and-slow crowd at a bit over US$100. Some require a pitot that resembles a metal sewing thimble affixed to the end of a metal tube. Probably to gather more air in the vacuum of slow flight. Regards, Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:17 PM PST US From: Cleone Markwell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! Hi Jon, I've been waiting to see this e-mail message. Congratulations! Cleone At 08:54 AM 6/5/06, you wrote: >Jon- great news. Congrats. I am just finishing up my re-build so >I can understand where you are coming from. Best of luck in all >future flights. >Al Young >N601AY- second time around >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jon Croke >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring >brings flight! > >It finally flew! > >N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb >spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its >maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly >scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and >engine were a total financial loss). > >I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both >ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that >this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees >and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, >and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right >side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet >edge distances were more or less adhered to..... > >I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a >rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never >leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... >can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and >level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and >it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at >about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is >relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! > >Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few >things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun >plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice >no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a >bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of >time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... >but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not >needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of >flying I do they are just fine! > >My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The >second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save >time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just >shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were >not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to >get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first >time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe >(I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little >innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer >to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 >for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about >30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... > >Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this >Zenith-List.... (thank you!) > >Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. > > >Jon >the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:15 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: another Prop for sale --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Southern Reflections" I read this info regarding your prop. I have one just like it therefore please inform me as to what incompatibilities you have detected. Anxious to hear from you. Joe G ----- Original Message ----- From: "gary k" Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: Zenith-List: another Prop for sale > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary k" > > Blue, 2-blade composite (wood core) Prince prop. 68" X 62", SAE1 > pattern. May be good for Corvair? Out performs Warp, covers wide range > of pitch settings w/o having to change pitch. Can't say enough about > Lonnie Prince and his props, awesome. About 40 hours on prop, still > like new. Used on Stratus but seems to be incompatible with 2.2:1 > redrive. $750 obo (paid $1000 and well worth it). > > gary > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:09 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >My Lift Reserve indicator comes up sooner, and I do pay attention to >that, but anyone know of an airspeed indicator that is more >sensitive at the slower speeds? I have installed a Lift Reserve Indicator in my XL, but I am a long way from flying. I want to ask you about your experience with this device. With it working at low speeds, why do you want a low speed airspeed indicator? Is the LRI sufficient to tell you when to rotate? Perhaps this is just a matter of having a backup indication. Paul XL wings. do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:03 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) From: "Gig Giacona" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" You do realize that you have now disqualified your plane for LSA use. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38739#38739 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:14 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Bryan- You hit on the one real question mark I had for the layout, and to tell the truth, I'm puzzled. I've had my work in the house inspected for insurance purposes twice over the years, and the only places I was required to use 10g was for the water heater and water pump. I have heaters in both my bathrooms wired with 12g that have never had a problem (I built the house in '88) and neither inspector said a thing about them either time. Everyone I've talked to around here said, yeah, you've got it right for the welder circuit. I'm getting 234V at the box, and the outlet is only 2' away. If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go with 10g. As far as the rest of the circuits, I can only run one tool at a time! Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Martin" Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:02 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > > You don't have that 30A welder circuit wired with 12 gauge wire do you? > It should be wired with 10 gauge wire. Other than that your setup looks > good as long as you're not going to be running multiple loads > simultaneously on the same circuit. > > On Jun 4, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > >> I installed a sub breaker panel from the main and have a 30A 240V >> circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected outlet circuits, and a 20A >> lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground. Outlets are double >> gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'. Can I quit now? I have >> space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or 2-15A 120 breakers if need >> be. >> Please say I'm done! The price of Romex has gone up .30/ft in the >> past two weeks!!!! >> Bill >> do not archive >> >> >> > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. > do not archive. > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:34 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome Carroll- Actually, I went in with the intention of buying a DeWalt, but was hooked by the Ridgid lifetime warranty for $10 more than the price of the DeWalt. God knows, they're probably both made in the same factory. The two exceptions seem to be the Pro Line Hitachi and the Bosch. I finally got to see both. The Pro Line Hitachi has awesome torque (140 in/lbs higher than the Ridgid, which is higher than any other brand I originally looked at) for the same 189.95 price, but twice the charge time and a 5 year warranty. Definitely worth considering. The Bosch is made in Switzerland (!), but the price makes you cringe. Problem is, Carroll, you can't rely on the old brand names any more. It wasn't too long ago when a Homelite or McCulloch chain saw was the best you could buy! My Subaru was built in Indiana, my wife's Ford in Mexico. Times have changed. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Trainnut01@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome Bill I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a large deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws garage (3 inch screws) a 1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a RV7 and am now almost done with the wings and tail of my 601. I am still using the same drill and it still works fine. I have two battery packs, one is always in the the drill and the other is always on charge. The batteries do seem to require changing more often as they age but that is not much of a problem. If the DeWalt dies tonight I will buy another one tomorrow, just like it if I can. Carroll Jernigan XL ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:00 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and >go with 10g. Bill, The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result of the current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard used in electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10 degrees Celsius. If you let the wires get really hot there is a risk of fire. Have fun, Paul XL wings do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:33 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin In most cases, a 30 amp circuit must be wired with 10 gauge wire. But after further research in the NEC, I see that welder circuits are an exception to the rule. Article 630 allows the size of the conductor to be reduced according to the duty cycle of the welder, so your circuit is probably correct. The voltage of the circuit is irrelevent, the current rating of the load is the important factor. The circuit breaker is usually sized to protect the wire in the circuit from overheating due to too much current flow. Your 240 volt electric space heaters are probably rated at less than 16 Amps which would allow a 20 Amp breaker and 12 guage wire. I used to be an electrician but I haven't worked in that field for several years so some of this stuff has faded from memory. On Jun 5, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" > > Bryan- > You hit on the one real question mark I had for the layout, and > to tell the truth, I'm puzzled. > I've had my work in the house inspected for insurance purposes > twice over the years, and the only places I was required to use 10g > was for the water heater and water pump. I have heaters in both my > bathrooms wired with 12g that have never had a problem (I built the > house in '88) and neither inspector said a thing about them either > time. Everyone I've talked to around here said, yeah, you've got it > right for the welder circuit. > I'm getting 234V at the box, and the outlet is only 2' away. If > my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go > with 10g. > As far as the rest of the circuits, I can only run one tool at a > time! > > > Bill -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:57 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin A ten year old DeWalt is probably not the same as a new one. The design was changed several years ago and tne newer ones aren't as good. DeWalt is now a division of Black and Decker, which is a division of GE and some of the worst junk in the history of electricity have come from GE. RCA used to be one of the better electronics firms until they were bought out by GE and now they make nothing but junk. On Jun 5, 2006, at 7:21 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > Carroll- > Actually, I went in with the intention of buying a DeWalt, but > was hooked by the Ridgid lifetime warranty for $10 more than the > price of the DeWalt. God knows, they're probably both made in the > same factory. > The two exceptions seem to be the Pro Line Hitachi and the > Bosch. I finally got to see both. > The Pro Line Hitachi has awesome torque (140 in/lbs higher than > the Ridgid, which is higher than any other brand I originally > looked at) for the same 189.95 price, but twice the charge time and > a 5 year warranty. Definitely worth considering. The Bosch is made > in Switzerland (!), but the price makes you cringe. > Problem is, Carroll, you can't rely on the old brand names any > more. It wasn't too long ago when a Homelite or McCulloch chain saw > was the best you could buy! My Subaru was built in Indiana, my > wife's Ford in Mexico. > Times have changed. > > > Bill > > do not archive > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Trainnut01@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome > > Bill > I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a > large deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws > garage (3 inch screws) a 1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a > RV7 and am now almost done with the wings and tail of my 601. I am > still using the same drill and it still works fine. I have two > battery packs, one is always in the the drill and the other is > always on charge. The batteries do seem to require changing more > often as they age but that is not much of a problem. If the DeWalt > dies tonight I will buy another one tomorrow, just like it if I can. > Carroll Jernigan > XL > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:59 PM PST US From: JohnKearney@ATT.NET (John Kearney) Subject: Zenith-List: Running Corvair at Golden West Fly in Hi all, I will have my running corvair engine at the Zenith/Quality Sport Planes Booth at the Golden West Flyin this weekend. Come on by and lets talk corvair and the Zodiac 601XL. Best regards John -- John and Jean Kearney Builders Turbo Corvair Zenith Aircraft Zodiac 601XL
Hi all,
 
I will have my running corvair engine at the Zenith/Quality Sport Planes Booth at the Golden West Flyin this weekend. Come on by and lets talk corvair and the Zodiac 601XL.
 
Best regards
John
--
John and Jean Kearney
Builders Turbo Corvair
Zenith Aircraft
Zodiac 601XL
________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:54 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI Hello Paul, I have mine installed in the 701, Is a diferent type of airplane that the 601, because the 701 has two diferent angle of attack in the wing. One without the slots working (normal approach) and another diferent angle of attack in the flare (when the slots beguin to work). We use our LRI calibrated at normal approach angle of attack for two reasons: First We fly at diferent altitudes here and diferent sizes of landing strips, so a slow aproach without loosing glide angle/speed is important. And second the STOL flair/approach in the 701 is so slow and close to the ground that sincerely, there is no time to glance at the LRI. We just keep the eyes on the strip trough the side of the windshield that instant before touch down... I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI installed, but I am very far from the kit looking as an airplane... Here is one good article that explains how the LRI works in a "normal" type of wing. (If there is something close to "normal wing" in modern homebuilt airplanes :-) In this article is an instalation in a RV6. Very similar way, was how it was explained to me by a local bush pilot that has one installed in his airplane and talked me to install one. http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive short field landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will say (in my case). Saludos Gary Gower. Paul Mulwitz wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >My Lift Reserve indicator comes up sooner, and I do pay attention to >that, but anyone know of an airspeed indicator that is more >sensitive at the slower speeds? I have installed a Lift Reserve Indicator in my XL, but I am a long way from flying. I want to ask you about your experience with this device. With it working at low speeds, why do you want a low speed airspeed indicator? Is the LRI sufficient to tell you when to rotate? Perhaps this is just a matter of having a backup indication. Paul XL wings. do not archive __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:56 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> While the whole shop is burning down and melting everyting in it you will briefly have plenty of light while you consider the choice of using an oversized breaker with undersized wire, and may develop a new perspective on dim lights. Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > > At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >>If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go >>with 10g. > > > Bill, > > The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit > breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result of the > current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard used in > electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10 degrees Celsius. > If you let the wires get really hot there is a risk of fire. > > Have fun, > > Paul > XL wings > do not archive > > > --------------------------------------------- > Paul Mulwitz > 32013 NE Dial Road > Camas, WA 98607 > --------------------------------------------- > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:14 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Drills and wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin The primary reason for a choosing a particular wire size is to prevent overheating due to current. But for long wire runs, voltage drop also becomes a factor, the wires should be sized to prevent a voltage drop of more than 3% at the farthest end of a branch circuit. If you don't follow this guide, you won't cause your lights to dim or circuit breakers to pop, your load will just run at under its rated voltage. For a motor circuit, this can be a problem as motors don't like running under speed. This is one reason major appliances can be damaged during a "brown-out". If you've ever run a large drill motor at the end of a long extension cord, you may have encountered this situation. A 50 foot extension cord will be rated at a lower current than a ten foot cord even if both use the same size wire. On Jun 5, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > > At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >> If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why >> and go with 10g. > > > Bill, > > The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit > breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result > of the current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard > used in electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10 > degrees Celsius. If you let the wires get really hot there is a > risk of fire. > > Have fun, > > Paul > XL wings > do not archive > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:03 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome All- Before I go any farther, let me tell you that my first arc-welding experience was cutting up junk cars in the middle of a field, with the welder connected with a 100' roll of 12 /2 to two 10A fuses in a barn. That said, I plugged a batch of high drain corded devices in 3 outlets, and turned on every light in the new shop. I was able to get a slight dimming of the lights. Save your breath. This is probably my only chance to build MY workshop, the way I want it. I've already spent more than I did on my kit, so what the Hell? I'll replace the 12/2 inlet lines with 10g ASAP. Bill ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:27 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Drills and wiring From: "jsimons2" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" Go with the 10 gauge wire and be safe. Most welders require a 30 amp circuit due to their current draw. The only time that #12 gauge wire is allowed to be on a circuit that is protected by more than a 20 amp breaker is on A/C and refridgeration equipment. It is then limited to no more than 25 amps minimum circuit ampacity. This is due to the high, but short duration, startup draw of compressors. No wire is allowed more than 80% of its rating for continuous load. The other receptacle circuits should be fine due to the fact that you will probably never use more than one piece of equipment at a time. All of my info comes straight from the NEC (National Electrical Code). My qualifications?? Senior electrical inspector for the city where I live and over 28 years in the business. Jerome Simons very near future 601 HDS scrap builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38823#38823 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:10 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI Hi Gary, Thank you for the article link on flying the LRI. I enjoyed reading it and got my ideas about it reinforced. It sounds to me like a much better instrument to use for critical airspeed control than the airspeed indicator. Of course you can still use the nose "Picture" on the horizon to control your speed as well, but the LRI sounds like a nice precise way to get nearly maximum performance from your plane on both takeoff and landing. I understand your comment about not wanting to take your eyes off the runway on landing approach to check the LRI. There may be several ways to deal with this problem. Let me suggest a few: 1. You can set up your approach at the desired LRI indication. Then look at the pitch on the nose of your plane and hold the same pitch while using the same power/airspeed and flap setting. This should hold the same LRI indication. 2. I have seen many AOA indicators - particularly the kind with colored lights - mounted above the instrument panel so the indication is easy to see while looking out the windshield. You could mount your LRI indicator either on top of the panel or at the top-most position in the center of your viewing image. This would make it very easy to find the indicator at the critical moments. 3. If you have already mounted your indicator at a remote location in your instrument panel, you might be able to make an optical path to make it visible from above the panel. This might be similar to the mirrors used in a "Periscope". Place one rectangular or oval mirror below the gauge and mount another one above the panel in line with the other mirror. Then you should be able to see the instrument face while looking out the windshield. In any case, I am happy I decided to install one of these instruments in my XL. I think I will put it on the topmost row of instruments - perhaps right next to the EFIS. Thanks again, Paul XL wings (nearly done) At 05:13 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >Hello Paul, > >We use our LRI calibrated at normal approach angle of attack for two >reasons: > >First We fly at diferent altitudes here and diferent sizes of >landing strips, so a slow aproach without loosing glide >angle/speed is important. > >And second the STOL flair/approach in the 701 is so slow and close >to the ground that sincerely, there is no time to glance at the >LRI. We just keep the eyes on the strip trough the side of the >windshield that instant before touch down... > >I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI >installed, but I am very far from the kit looking as an airplane... > >Here is one good article that explains how the LRI works in a >"normal" type of wing. (If there is something close to "normal >wing" in modern homebuilt airplanes :-) > >http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm > >Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive >short field landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will >say (in my case). > >Saludos >Gary Gower. > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:38 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Paul and Gary, I can't speak to the 701 installation of a LRI but have had a LRI in my 601HDS for almost a year and a half. I posted pictures of the probe and indicator on Scott Laughlin's website and would not fly without it. My field is short and rough and I found that my landings were unnecessarily long and fast. Using the LRI I have shortened the takeoff and landing distance and cut down considerably on wear and tear on the plane and my nerves. I highly reccomend one. As far as being too busy to look at one while close to the ground I found that it's THE most important instrument to look at close to the ground. I mounted mine above the instrument panel so it's in my line of sight as I look out the canopy. A few ex-military pilots recognize it but almost all GA pilots are clueless as to it's function untill they see it in action. Total cost was less than $80 or so. Only downside is that the Dwyer differential pressure gauge used on mine as in indicator is an odd size-- I guess 3 or 3 1/2 inches so it's hard to put in line with other instruments. I have seen expensive and complex digital models that illiminate sequential red or green LEDs but I like the analog needle that gives immediate feedback on wing's lift. I installed it to let me know when the wing was about to stall so I could land slower but found that it's just as handy to lift off short in ground effect and watch the lift available rise to a safe level before rotating and climbing out Works just as well to give warning of an impending departure stall or if you do a high speed turn or chandelle it lets you know what the state of lift remaining is. If you ever fly with one you won't be without one. Just don't stick it in a corner where you can't see it easily. Ron Gary Gower wrote: > Hello Paul, > > I have mine installed in the 701, Is a diferent type of airplane > that the 601, because the 701 has two diferent angle of attack in the > wing. > > I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI installed, > but I am very far from the kit looking as an airplane... > > Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive > short field landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will > say (in my case). > > Saludos > Gary Gower. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Stabilizer Tips From: "Tim Juhl" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" I'm sure this subject has come up before, but humor me and give me the benefit of your collective wisdom. I'm getting ready to fit the fiberglass tips to my horizontal stabilizer. Looking at the tips I see a few problems.... 1.) They don't fit very snugly within the end of the stab. When you rivet them will the rivets pull the tip's edges up to the contour of the skins or am I likely to get some wrinkles in the aluminum skin? 2.) The open edges of the tips are not straight (flat). The edge line is curved inwards towards the outside center of the tip. Should I sand or dress the edges until straight? 3.) There are some chips in the fiberglass coating around the edges. Any recommendation as to what I should use to fill and smooth these areas? Thanks! Tim -------- CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Horiz. Stab. & Elev. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38844#38844 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Stratomaster Enigma From: "John Hines" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool! http://www.mglavionics.co.za/enigma.html John R. Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Office: 479-878-2449 Mobile: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com www.craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:32 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratomaster Enigma --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool! It looks pretty cool to me. I think the best way to deal with this new design is to let someone else suffer the growing pains and wait for good reviews from actual airplane builders. That should take a year or two after they start shipping. For now I will stick with Dynon, Blue Mountain, etc. for my panel to be built later this year. Paul XL wings do not archive ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:04 PM PST US Subject: Vs: Zenith-List: Builders photo's From: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com :-) http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/DSC03292.JPG and http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/DSC03291.JPG ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:56 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratomaster Enigma --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" At last! If you are in the US an tempted to buy one this is MGL's US dealer: http://www.sportflyingshop.com/ Great folks: both MGL and Sport Flying Shop. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:10 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Stratomaster Enigma --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" --> Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool! http://www.mglavionics.co.za/enigma.html John R. Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Office: 479-878-2449 Mobile: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com www.craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.