---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/12/06: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:52 AM - CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats (Cannon, Walt) 2. 04:03 AM - CH 701 and Amphib floats (Gordon) 3. 04:39 AM - Compressors one last thought (John Bolding) 4. 04:56 AM - Re: Jabiru Bing carb vs Aerocarb (Darryl Legg) 5. 05:38 AM - Re: Air Compressor Air Compressor (William Dominguez) 6. 06:09 AM - Homebuilt flanging tool (Kevin Kinney) 7. 06:20 AM - Rivet gun "bounce" (Kevin Kinney) 8. 06:40 AM - Re: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats () 9. 06:48 AM - Scam warning/old scam still around (Larry) 10. 07:11 AM - Bolt Torque Specs (Randy Bryant) 11. 07:30 AM - Re: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats () 12. 07:49 AM - Re: Question on JD Alt Regulator (Cleone Markwell) 13. 08:05 AM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (LarryMcFarland) 14. 09:40 AM - Re: Scam warning/old scam still around (Steve) 15. 09:41 AM - Re: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear (Craig Payne) 16. 10:11 AM - Re: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear (David Mikesell) 17. 10:37 AM - Re: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear (Craig Payne) 18. 10:42 AM - Re: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear (LarryMcFarland) 19. 10:48 AM - Re: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear (LarryMcFarland) 20. 11:48 AM - 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 too short (rear fuselage bottom skins) (John and Kim Lumkes) 21. 12:03 PM - Re: Scam warning/old scam still around (Robin Bellach) 22. 12:37 PM - Re: 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 too short (rear fuselage bottom skins) (LarryMcFarland) 23. 12:38 PM - Re: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear (David Mikesell) 24. 12:44 PM - Re: 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 too short (rear fuselage bottom skins) () 25. 12:59 PM - Re: 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 too short (rear fuselage bottom skins) () 26. 12:59 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Randy Bryant) 27. 01:35 PM - Re: Question on JD Alt Regulator (lynn dingfelder) 28. 01:46 PM - Re: 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 too short (rear fuselage bottom skins) (Paul Mulwitz) 29. 02:38 PM - Aileron trim (or not) (Richard Vetterli) 30. 03:37 PM - Re: Aileron trim (or not) (Paul Mulwitz) 31. 03:40 PM - Re: Question on JD Alt Regulator (Randy Stout) 32. 03:53 PM - Re: Compressors one last thought (Bill Naumuk) 33. 04:05 PM - Scratch building??? Maybe?? (John Hines) 34. 04:09 PM - Re: Rivet gun "bounce" (Bill Naumuk) 35. 04:27 PM - Zenith HD (calkath@infostations.com) 36. 05:04 PM - Re: Scratch building??? Maybe?? (jsimons2) 37. 05:16 PM - molded fuel tank? (jsimons2) 38. 05:38 PM - Re: Scratch building??? Maybe?? (Ashcraft, Keith -AES) 39. 05:48 PM - Re: Zenith HD (LarryMcFarland) 40. 05:57 PM - Re: Scratch building??? Maybe?? (John Hines) 41. 05:59 PM - Re: Rivet gun "bounce" (Jack Russell) 42. 06:54 PM - Re: Aileron trim (or not) (Noel Loveys) 43. 07:27 PM - Re: Scratch building??? Maybe?? (Zodie Rocket) 44. 08:03 PM - Re: Jabiru Bing carb vs Aerocarb (Brandon Tucker) 45. 08:14 PM - Re: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear (Brandon Tucker) 46. 09:07 PM - Re: Scratch building??? Maybe?? (Randy Bryant) 47. 09:07 PM - Re: Aileron trim (or not) (Paul Mulwitz) 48. 11:34 PM - Aluminum pricing (Tom and Bren Henderson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:36 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats From: "Cannon, Walt" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cannon, Walt" Greetings All, I am a CH701 (912S) builder/flyer. During the building of my plane I thought that I would probably want to put it on floats and therefore made the recommended structural enhancements. Now the time has come to do some further research and I am interested in comments/information/recommendations from anyone flying the 1150/1200 amphibious 4 wheel floats on a 701. Please feel free to mail me off line and pictures would be welcomed. Here is a list of the main things I am interested in: Your experience and method for ordering the floats Quality of the floats and associated components How well the installation kit was engineered and if it included most all the items you needed How well the floats fit the attach point on your 701 Where you installed the retraction pump and system How the floats handle on the water and take-off times and distances Cruise performance Thanks in advance for your input, Walt Cannon N701WD Seattle WA USA Currently living in Brisbane Australia ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:40 AM PST US From: "Gordon" Subject: Zenith-List: CH 701 and Amphib floats "made the recommended structural enhancements"??? I am also panning on mounting the Czech floats, but I wasn't aware of any modifications to the plane. What structural enhancements are needed? Gordon ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:16 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: Compressors one last thought --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" > Time: 10:25:39 PM PST US > From: "Dave Thompson" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Air Compressor Air Compressor > > William, With the the 26 > gal tank, > it doesnt run very often. > >> CFM. Belt drive is usually quieter than direct drive. > dave.thompson@verizon.net One thing I forgot to mention during the last go 'round on air compressors is sizing. When selling air compressors on the Gulf Coast for a LONG time I had to be aware of a potential problem of the pump not being brought up to temp. My industrial customers (petrochem,industrial manufacturing and marine) bought a compressor to last 30-40 yrs. Had MANY that went 50 +. BUT you have to USE them to get that kinda lifespan. I usually sized the pump where it would run at least 40% of the shift. Just like an engine, if you drive down to the grocery store 2 miles away, and back , once a week and let the car sit for a week ,or fly your airplane one circuit and let it sit for a month you have more problems with internal corrosion than if you ran it frequently and long. Problem is minimal in low humidity areas and much worse in high humidity areas. On a compressor during a period of non- use, the moisture in the cyls that condensed during the final cooldown finds it's way past the rings to the crankcase where it contaminates the oil. Turns it milky so it's easy to spot. Fix is easy, if this is noticed either OPEN the valve and run the pump non-stop 'till the oil turns clear again (pumps gets to normal operating temp and moisture evaporates faster)or change it. LOW&SLOW John ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:12 AM PST US From: Darryl Legg Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru Bing carb vs Aerocarb --> Zenith-List message posted by: Darryl Legg Hi Brandon, Do you have any operating figures on the aerocarb, and what engine is it on? How do you think it compares to a normal carburettor performance wise and do you have a carb heat box fitted? Darryl. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:00 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Air Compressor Air Compressor --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Dominguez Thanks for the info Dave. I did search the archive before posting but some things where still unclear for me. I took a look at the Home Depot and Husky site and for the Husky model you have and it seems like a great choice for the price. I couldn't find the dimensions in neither site, I'll appreciate if you can give me an estimate of its size if you can. Thanks William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans --- Dave Thompson wrote: > William, > > I posted a question a month or so about air > compressors. Check the archives. > Theres a bunch of great responses. Thanks guys! > > > > I have purchased a great deal of tools from Harbor > Freight. As everyone > knows, some of their stuff is, let me say not the > best. I havent had a > great deal of luck with most of their power tools. > Id shy away from their > air compressors. > > > > I agree with the other guys that you might look into > as large a compressor > that you can afford. There is a great deal of other > air tools that you might > want to use in the future. The way I look at it, > its one of the major tools > in my shop. I remember when I purchased my first 7 > table saw just out of > high school. It was the cheapest I could find. It > did the job but not very > well. I soon replaced it with a full size 10 from > Sears. I still have it & > love it 30 years later. > Dont make a mistake and under buy. > > > > With the advice from the other guys here and other > research, last week I > purchased the Husky VT6315 from Home Depot for just > under $400.00. They also > let me make payments. It looks exactly like the > Campbell/housefield but red > rather than blue. It was a little cheaper in price > too. I think they make it > for Home Depot. It was one of the largest I could > find at 120VAC and on > wheels. It has a 26 gal tank and is belt driven > which makes it much quieter > than my old direct drive pancake. They claim it is > 5 HP but we know thats > peak so its really about 2 or 3HP. One of the best > features to me is that > it is upright so it has the same footprint as my 1HP > framers pancake > compressor (I have a very small shop 10 X 35). I > dont have a kit yet so > Ive just played around with it so far. However, I > havent had any trouble > using my die grinders, panel saw, drill or > impact. With the 26 gal tank, > it doesnt run very often. > > > > When researching, I used the CFM @ 90PSI to compare. > Look for the highest > CFM. Belt drive is usually quieter than direct > drive. Also, try to put it on > its own circuit without an extension cord. That way > it will not be dragged > down by other things on the same circuit. That can > lesson its performance > and weaken the motor over time. > > > > I purchased a 12 whip hose with swivel and an > in-line pressure regulator > ball valve for my riveter from HF. I think they will > be handy. > > > > One last thing: Dont forget to get the nose pieces > of your riveter modified > per Zeniths specs. They did mine for free at the > rudder workshop. > > > > Dave Thompson > > dave.thompson@verizon.net > > Do not archive > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:28 AM PST US From: Kevin Kinney Subject: Zenith-List: Homebuilt flanging tool --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Kinney A flanging tool is easy enough to make. The key is the flanging dies. Or as I call them,z "skateboard bearings." I bought them at a bigbox department store that stocked skateboards. I mounted them on a palm sized bit 3/4" plywood. If you just want to use them exclusively for flanging, you might mount them on a piece of square steel tube. The recently departed (from this hemisphere, at least) Neil Hulin passed this tip along to me: Bending the edge of aluminum sheet gives it a finished edge. I use the flanging tool to give the sheet just the tiniest bit of downward bend causing the edge to seat nicely. The key here is NOT to use the entire width of the ball bearing. I taped some spacers in front & behind the bearing to reduce the width of sheet going through the bearings. It's pretty simple. And you don't have to wait on backorder. Regards, Kevin Kinney ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:56 AM PST US From: Kevin Kinney Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet gun "bounce" --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Kinney Here is something to consider regarding bouncing air rivetters: I've used one (1) from HF & one (1) from ZAC. This isn't much to build an opinion on, but it's all I have. The ZAC rivetter is a lot more "snappy" in it's performance. It's faster than HF, but it does have a rather forceful release when the rivet stem breaks. If your pressure reglator is too high, you will get a bounce. The HF rivetter (which I used on my project) eases into the pull and there's very little reaction when the rivet stem snaps. If you were crticial, you could say it feels lazy. Regardless, it gets the job done. On the whole, I prefer the HF gun, but then I've use that one far more than the ZAC. Regards, Kevin Kinney ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats From: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Walt Are there structural enhancements needed for a 701SP-kit ? I have not implemented any myself... Have some experience with CZAW 1150 floats and yesterday a C42 Ikarus was successfully mounted on CZAW 1200 floats here, it behaves now much more nicely than on Full Lotus bags. My friends are flying a 701-SP on 3-wheel 1150 floats and we have another set for our Skyranger as well to be installed this summer. My own 701 set is similar, also delivered ready-made directly from CZAW with a conversion kit that includes the folding nose-wheel. The performance is grately influenced by the mounting angle of the floats. If you want maximum performance, say 140 km/h instead of 120 km/h you will have to decrease this angle. The price is that the start and landing will never use the STOL ability of the wing, as no air will pass through the slat slot... The 701 is always a great performer as a floatplane and always lifts off from the water by itself. Just push the throttle forward and enjoy the ride, no need to find the sweet spot as in most other floatplanes. always airborne within 200 yards even with a 80hp 912 engine, but if you regularly want to pass high trees at the shoreline it might be better to use the original float angle and a 100 hp 912-ULS engine I have made a water flying quadrant using the hydraulic pump as one support and using a long bolt shaft for a water rudder lifting lever (30 cm wire movement needed), for the nosewheel lock release lever and for the a 3-pos flap handle, as the original flap handle is way down and really hard to use. All this sits now on the left floor between my legs. best regards Max Max Johansson making a 912-SP on 1150 floats in Helsinki, Finland >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >ext Cannon, Walt >Sent: 12 June, 2006 12:46 >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cannon, Walt" >--> > >Greetings All, > >I am a CH701 (912S) builder/flyer. During the building of my >plane I thought that I would probably want to put it on floats >and therefore made the recommended structural enhancements. >Now the time has come to do some further research and I am >interested in comments/information/recommendations from anyone >flying the 1150/1200 amphibious 4 wheel floats on a 701. >Please feel free to mail me off line and pictures would be >welcomed. Here is a list of the main things I am interested in: > >Your experience and method for ordering the floats Quality of >the floats and associated components How well the installation >kit was engineered and if it included most all the items you >needed How well the floats fit the attach point on your 701 >Where you installed the retraction pump and system How the >floats handle on the water and take-off times and distances >Cruise performance > >Thanks in advance for your input, > >Walt Cannon >N701WD Seattle WA USA >Currently living in Brisbane Australia > > >Photoshare, and much much more: > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:27 AM PST US From: "Larry" Subject: Zenith-List: Scam warning/old scam still around BlankJust a word of warning. I don't know how may of you guys/gals know about this old scam. I have my prop on Barnstormers and this is about the fourth one of these I've gotten like the one below. Here are the dead giveaways; e-mail address is almost always yahoo, it is untraceable. They are not American, notice the spelling of favorable. They have their own shipper. The want to purchase it immediately. They want to know the present status and price. If you reply, they will ask you to take a cashier's check. It will be more than the amount of the product you are selling. They want you to deposit it in your bank and wire the difference to them. A couple of years ago I got one of these checks. I called the issuing bank. It was fake. You could not tell the difference between it an a real check. I contacted the US Marshal's Office. They said "Thank You, we already have plenty of these". They weren't being smart, it is that this is so rampant they are swamped. I kept it for a while and threw it away. A lot of people think a cashiers check is the same as a money order, it is not. A cashiers check is almost the same as a personal check other than the issuer is a bank rather than a person. It still takes several days to clear. In the mean time if you have sent the buyer the difference he asked for, you are screwed. Because the cashiers check comes back hot. And, of course the buyer is gone to yahoo land. I get a whole bunch of these e-mails every time I use Barnstormers. I e-mailed them and suggested they put warnings on their site, but I guess they didn't want to run off customers. You just have to weed them out. George Bruce,I came across your props for sale which i am interested in,and i am ready to purchase it immediately.But i would like to know the present status and it's cost price so that I can proceed further on with payment, for the shippment I have a reputable shipping. Awaiting your favourable reply. Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:27 AM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs I am finishing up the center spar for my 601 XL. There are 6, AN4-15A bolts that go through the center spar. Are there torque specifications on these bolts that I need to follow? Thanks in advance, Randy XL Wings - Plans Only http://www.n344rb.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats From: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Sorry listers, this was intended just for Walt but never mind... do not archieve >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] >Sent: 12 June, 2006 16:39 >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: > >Walt > >Are there structural enhancements needed for a 701SP-kit ? >I have not implemented any myself... > >Have some experience with CZAW 1150 floats and yesterday a >C42 Ikarus was successfully mounted on CZAW 1200 floats here, ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:59 AM PST US From: Cleone Markwell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question on JD Alt Regulator GPJ, That is a Very Good question. I would also like to know. From diagrams on web sites I've seen it is usually connected to the + buss bar with small wire as if it were sensing the output voltage. I would think that could done internally, but I'm no engineer. If you get the answer off list please pass it on to me. Thanks. Cleone Do not archive At 04:04 PM 6/11/06, you wrote: >Would appreciate any help you might offer... > >Reference to John Deere Alternator Regulator pin #5 ... >Where does this pin go to: > .direct to battery > .plus (+) buss bar > .or where? > >Thanks >GPJ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:54 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Randy, Most bolts in structural applications will have a torque value for the place they are used. The AN4-15A bolt is a high strength fine thread bolt with 50-70 inch pounds standard type nuts. You need the Standard Aircraft Handbook 6th ed or later. Most of this kind of information is in this handbook. Your plans have the final word on fasteners, dimensions etc. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Randy Bryant wrote: > I am finishing up the center spar for my 601 XL. There are 6, AN4-15A > bolts that go through the center spar. Are there torque > specifications on these bolts that I need to follow? > > Thanks in advance, > > Randy > XL Wings - Plans Only > http://www.n344rb.com > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:58 AM PST US From: "Steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scam warning/old scam still around BlankI hear you Larry, Just got one myself last week and the response I sent them may not change me getting the old scam treatment in the future, but I't made me feel better typing it and sending it back. My ad and response are below. Hello Mrs caroline Janet Scammer, How about we just dispense with the bulls**t and you take your scam elsewhere, like the secret service for example. Don't you guys ever get sick of jumping on new postings with the old "broken english", "Proceed with payment", "God bless" garbage. I mean come on! "I saw your advert and i will like to know more", "in other to proceed for the payment and book an appointmen with you", geez, what a knob job. Oh and by the way, why don't you at least take the time to read the ad next time before jumping on the posting with your line of CRAP! You might then realize that I am looking to purchase an item and not sell. As I said earlier, what a knob job, UNBELIEVABLE!! Oh and let's not forget, God Bless PS Get a life and stop wasting mine and other peoples time and maybe someday soon I'll be able to meet up with you in person!!!! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: [barnstormers.com] Re: BRS softpack > Dear Steve, > the following message from caroline Janet was sent through the > barnstormers.com web site in regard to the following listing.. > http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=108423 > to reply to caroline Janet simply reply to this email. > > From..........: caroline Janet > Phone.........: 5303340031 > City..........: union > State/Province: ca > Country.......: usa > > Hello seller, > I saw your advert and i will like to know more information about it,also > more picttures of it if available in other to proceed for the payment and > book an appointmen with you. > Thanks > Mrs Caroline ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:45 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Scam warning/old scam still around Just a word of warning. I don't know how may of you guys/gals know about this old scam. I have my prop on Barnstormers and this is about the fourth one of these I've gotten like the one below. Here are the dead giveaways; e-mail address is almost always yahoo, it is untraceable. They are not American, notice the spelling of favorable. They have their own shipper. The want to purchase it immediately. They want to know the present status and price. If you reply, they will ask you to take a cashier's check. It will be more than the amount of the product you are selling. They want you to deposit it in your bank and wire the difference to them. A couple of years ago I got one of these checks. I called the issuing bank. It was fake. You could not tell the difference between it an a real check. I contacted the US Marshal's Office. They said "Thank You, we already have plenty of these". They weren't being smart, it is that this is so rampant they are swamped. I kept it for a while and threw it away. A lot of people think a cashiers check is the same as a money order, it is not. A cashiers check is almost the same as a personal check other than the issuer is a bank rather than a person. It still takes several days to clear. In the mean time if you have sent the buyer the difference he asked for, you are screwed. Because the cashiers check comes back hot. And, of course the buyer is gone to yahoo land. I get a whole bunch of these e-mails every time I use Barnstormers. I e-mailed them and suggested they put warnings on their site, but I guess they didn't want to run off customers. You just have to weed them out. George Bruce,I came across your props for sale which i am interested in,and i am ready to purchase it immediately.But i would like to know the present status and it's cost price so that I can proceed further on with payment, for the shippment I have a reputable shipping. Awaiting your favourable reply. Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 6/11/2006 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:51 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I'm fairly ignorant of the internals of an HDS wing: why keep the stubs of the old gear? They sure look draggy. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:41 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear David, The pictures attached give an idea of what was done in this case. Though I don't believe the spring gear has any advantage due to its weight and light attachment if you repeat XL structure. You damage the spring gear and you destroy the fuselage and all. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive David Mikesell wrote: > I have seen a few pictures of the spring type gear on a HDS. Does > anyone know how the ribs and internal structure of the center wing > section was modified to accept the stress and support the spring gear > mounts? I am really interested in doing it to mine but would like to > know what all is required. > > Thanks, > > David Mikesell > 23597 N. Hwy 99 > Acampo, CA 95220 > 209-609-8774 > skyguynca@skyguynca.com > www.skyguynca.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:18 AM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" Really I am not looking for a "advantage" of weight. I just prefer spring gear. I really don't know how the XL gear is done hence why I am asking for help. ---- Original Message ---- From: craig@craigandjean.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > >I'm fairly ignorant of the internals of an HDS wing: why keep the >stubs of >the old gear? They sure look draggy. > >-- Craig > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >LarryMcFarland >Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:41 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear > >David, >The pictures attached give an idea of what was done in this case. >Though I don't believe the spring gear has any advantage due to its >weight >and light attachment if you repeat XL structure. You damage the >spring gear >and you destroy the fuselage and all. > >Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive > >David Mikesell wrote: > >> I have seen a few pictures of the spring type gear on a HDS. Does >> anyone know how the ribs and internal structure of the center wing >> section was modified to accept the stress and support the spring >gear >> mounts? I am really interested in doing it to mine but would like >to >> know what all is required. >> >> Thanks, >> >> David Mikesell >> 23597 N. Hwy 99 >> Acampo, CA 95220 >> 209-609-8774 >> skyguynca@skyguynca.com >> www.skyguynca.com > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:47 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" I was asking about Larry's plane specifically. From what I see in his photos he has the spring gear but still has the stubs of the factory gear protruding from the bottom of the wings. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Mikesell Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:10 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" --> Really I am not looking for a "advantage" of weight. I just prefer spring gear. I really don't know how the XL gear is done hence why I am asking for help. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:17 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Craig, I think in considering the weight that was added, the builder may have had second thoughts about what he'd done. The old gear looked like it had been there for a long time without paint. I'd have replaced the old gear struts or blasted and painted them again. Larry Mc do not archive Craig Payne wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > >I'm fairly ignorant of the internals of an HDS wing: why keep the stubs of >the old gear? They sure look draggy. > >-- Craig > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:26 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland David, You might look closely at the image of the gear and fuselage exploded view on the Zenith site, see link. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html It might be a little difficult to do on a HDS correctly because of the tie across the bottom and vertical supports. Larry Mc do not archive David Mikesell wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" > > >Really I am not looking for a "advantage" of weight. I just prefer >spring gear. I really don't know how the XL gear is done hence why I >am asking for help. > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:02 AM PST US From: "John and Kim Lumkes" Subject: Zenith-List: 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 too short (rear fuselage bottom skins) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John and Kim Lumkes" Hello, I am working on the "simple" step of joining the rear fuselage bottom and end skin, 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 together, and 6F1-1 is 4 mm too short (2220 versus 2224mm). Not a big deal, except for that the two pieces are supposed to overlap 20 mm for a 10 mm rivet edge distance, and the overall length is supposed to be 2544, and I am only getting the 2540 with the 20 mm overlap. I have contacted the factory and am awaiting their response as well. I see my options as: 1. Buy material and make the part myself or order from factory. The smaller piece 6F1-2 I cannot make longer as it would make the stabilizer mounts too far apart or else comprimise the rivet edge distance. 2. Overlap 16 mm with an 8 mm edge distance; the longerons also span the seam. 3. Leave it 4 mm short (not sure of problems later on with this). Any thoughts or options? Thanks! John Lumkes 601HD-912 lumkes(at)msoe.edu ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:42 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scam warning/old scam still around BlankIn the past I have always ignored and deleted thise scam messages, but I tried a new tact recently when flooded with them as a result of the 1,200 auction listings I have running on GunBroler.com. I simply took a second to respond "OK" to one, and received a phony cashiers check mailed from England. My thought is that It takes hardly no time to respond thusly, but the scammer is then faced with wasting his time and some real $ to precede with sending the worthless paper at international mail rates. Seems that if many people did this, it would really hit'm in the pocketbook. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:36 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scam warning/old scam still around I hear you Larry, Just got one myself last week and the response I sent them may not change me getting the old scam treatment in the future, but I't made me feel better typing it and sending it back. My ad and response are below. Hello Mrs caroline Janet Scammer, How about we just dispense with the bulls**t and you take your scam elsewhere, like the secret service for example. Don't you guys ever get sick of jumping on new postings with the old "broken english", "Proceed with payment", "God bless" garbage. I mean come on! "I saw your advert and i will like to know more", "in other to proceed for the payment and book an appointmen with you", geez, what a knob job. Oh and by the way, why don't you at least take the time to read the ad next time before jumping on the posting with your line of CRAP! You might then realize that I am looking to purchase an item and not sell. As I said earlier, what a knob job, UNBELIEVABLE!! Oh and let's not forget, God Bless PS Get a life and stop wasting mine and other peoples time and maybe someday soon I'll be able to meet up with you in person!!!! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: [barnstormers.com] Re: BRS softpack > Dear Steve, > the following message from caroline Janet was sent through the > barnstormers.com web site in regard to the following listing.. > http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=108423 > to reply to caroline Janet simply reply to this email. > > From..........: caroline Janet > Phone.........: 5303340031 > City..........: union > State/Province: ca > Country.......: usa > > Hello seller, > I saw your advert and i will like to know more information about it,also > more picttures of it if available in other to proceed for the payment and > book an appointmen with you. > Thanks > Mrs Caroline ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:45 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Scam warning/old scam still around Just a word of warning. I don't know how may of you guys/gals know about this old scam. I have my prop on Barnstormers and this is about the fourth one of these I've gotten like the one below. Here are the dead giveaways; e-mail address is almost always yahoo, it is untraceable. They are not American, notice the spelling of favorable. They have their own shipper. The want to purchase it immediately. They want to know the present status and price. If you reply, they will ask you to take a cashier's check. It will be more than the amount of the product you are selling. They want you to deposit it in your bank and wire the difference to them. A couple of years ago I got one of these checks. I called the issuing bank. It was fake. You could not tell the difference between it an a real check. I contacted the US Marshal's Office. They said "Thank You, we already have plenty of these". They weren't being smart, it is that this is so rampant they are swamped. I kept it for a while and threw it away. A lot of people think a cashiers check is the same as a money order, it is not. A cashiers check is almost the same as a personal check other than the issuer is a bank rather than a person. It still takes several days to clear. In the mean time if you have sent the buyer the difference he asked for, you are screwed. Because the cashiers check comes back hot. And, of course the buyer is gone to yahoo land. I get a whole bunch of these e-mails every time I use Barnstormers. I e-mailed them and suggested they put warnings on their site, but I guess they didn't want to run off customers. You just have to weed them out. George Bruce,I came across your props for sale which i am interested in,and i am ready to purchase it immediately.But i would like to know the present status and it's cost price so that I can proceed further on with payment, for the shippment I have a reputable shipping. Awaiting your favourable reply. Larry Martin, www.skyhawg.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: 6/11/2006 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:04 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 too short (rear fuselage bottom skins) --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland John, After looking at the drawings, I see you have 3 options. The first would be to call Zenith and request another piece be sent to you. Likely they would and this only takes time. The second would be to order materials and make the part yourself and this also takes time. The third would be to shorten the top skin the same amount and keep the width given on the plans. This would permit you to continue to build without lost time. This would, however cause your rudder to be closer to the elevator and the rudder/elevator travel might be inhibited just a bit. It's very close and could become a problem. Recommend if you have the material, make another one, but if you don't contact Nick and he'll send you another one. Stay with the plans in any case for the reasons mentioned. Good luck,. Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com John and Kim Lumkes wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John and Kim Lumkes" > >Hello, > >I am working on the "simple" step of joining the rear fuselage bottom and >end skin, 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 together, and 6F1-1 is 4 mm too short (2220 versus >2224mm). Not a big deal, except for that the two pieces are supposed to >overlap 20 mm for a 10 mm rivet edge distance, and the overall length is >supposed to be 2544, and I am only getting the 2540 with the 20 mm overlap. >I have contacted the factory and am awaiting their response as well. I see >my options as: >1. Buy material and make the part myself or order from factory. The smaller >piece 6F1-2 I cannot make longer as it would make the stabilizer mounts too >far apart or else comprimise the rivet edge distance. >2. Overlap 16 mm with an 8 mm edge distance; the longerons also span the >seam. >3. Leave it 4 mm short (not sure of problems later on with this). > >Any thoughts or options? >Thanks! >John Lumkes >601HD-912 >lumkes(at)msoe.edu > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:51 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" Thanks Larry. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > > David, > You might look closely at the image of the gear and fuselage exploded > view on the Zenith site, see link. > http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/drawings.html > It might be a little difficult to do on a HDS correctly because of the > tie across the bottom and vertical > supports. > > Larry Mc > do not archive > > > David Mikesell wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" > > > > > >Really I am not looking for a "advantage" of weight. I just prefer > >spring gear. I really don't know how the XL gear is done hence why I > >am asking for help. > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:56 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 too short (rear fuselage bottom skins) Cc: John and Kim Lumkes --> Zenith-List message posted by: The factory will be the best source of info on this issue of course, but I think the 8mm edge distance is the best option. A second option would be to scribe the exact overlap of the two pieces and remove enough material form one or both of them so that they butt rather than overlap. Then cut a 20mm strip to joint them together with two parallel rivet lines instead of one. A third idea is to scuff the overlap joint area with 200 grit sandpaper (God forbid you might touch the area with the wrong color Scotchbrite) and dimple the rivet holes to nest together. Set the rivets with a flush nose piece using the 8mm edge distance, single rivet line with epoxy in the joint as you cleco them together and rivet. The dimples assume some of the shear resistance rather than depending only on the rivets. That's the basic technique for the Titan kits. Don't forget to clean the clecos with alcohol as you remove them. Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / wings > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John and Kim Lumkes" the two pieces are supposed to > overlap 20 mm for a 10 mm rivet edge distance, and the overall length is > supposed to be 2544, and I am only getting the 2540 with the 20 mm overlap. > I have contacted the factory and am awaiting their response as well. I see > my options as: > 1. Buy material and make the part myself or order from factory. The smaller > piece 6F1-2 I cannot make longer as it would make the stabilizer mounts too > far apart or else comprimise the rivet edge distance. > 2. Overlap 16 mm with an 8 mm edge distance; the longerons also span the > seam. > 3. Leave it 4 mm short (not sure of problems later on with this). ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:10 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 too short (rear fuselage bottom skins) --> Zenith-List message posted by: ---- dredmoody@cox.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Regarding my previous post, the strip would have to be 40mm to achieve the 10mm edge distance. Sorry for the error. Ed "Then cut a 20mm strip to joint them together with two parallel rivet lines instead of one." ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:32 PM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Thanks Larry, My plans don't say what to torque these bolts to... Since most are kit builders and don't have to actually build this part, since it comes from the factory already assembled, I guess that the torque value for these 6 center spar bolts is not 'common knowledge'... I guess my best bet is to call ZAC and see what they can tell me... Thanks much, Randy XL Wings - Plans Only http://www.n344rb.com Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs > --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland > > Randy, > Most bolts in structural applications will have a torque value for the > place they are used. > The AN4-15A bolt is a high strength fine thread bolt with 50-70 inch > pounds standard type nuts. > You need the Standard Aircraft Handbook 6th ed or later. Most of this > kind of information is > in this handbook. Your plans have the final word on fasteners, dimensions > etc. > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > do not archive > > Randy Bryant wrote: > >> I am finishing up the center spar for my 601 XL. There are 6, AN4-15A >> bolts that go through the center spar. Are there torque specifications >> on these bolts that I need to follow? >> Thanks in advance, >> Randy >> XL Wings - Plans Only >> http://www.n344rb.com >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:21 PM PST US From: "lynn dingfelder" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question on JD Alt Regulator GPJ, I have regulator no. AM101406, which I think supercedes AM126304. This unit has no connection numbers stamped or printed on it, but I have a charging circuit diagram from John Deere. Looking at the finned side, with the five terminals at the top, starting on the left: 1 - direct to battery (at starter connection) 2 - to alternator 3 - to alternator 4 - to indicator lamp (other lamp connection to ground) 5 - through 10 amp fuse (or breaker) to ignition, hot only when key is on Hope this is useful, Lynn 601XL Corvair 35% ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:10 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 6F1-1 and 6F1-2 too short (rear fuselage bottom skins) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >scribe the exact overlap of the two pieces and remove enough >material form one or both of them so that they butt rather than >overlap. Then cut a 20mm strip to joint them together with two >parallel rivet lines instead of one. I think this approach would actually call for a 40mm strip rather than 20. Good luck, Paul XL wings do not archive - ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:57 PM PST US From: Richard Vetterli Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron trim (or not) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli Listers, Instead of using the electric trim tab on the aileron of my XL, Im planning on installing a modified version of the Vans spring trim on the stick. Very K.I.S.S. It will be similar to the Bungee Trim found on the www.ch601.org web site, however, Im going to use the Ray Allen servo that came with my trim tab kit to control the tension of the springs (also similar to the Vans electric/spring trim). Does anyone see any safety or hazard problems with this set-up? Also, any scratch builder that wants a completed trim tab with horn, hinge and channel, get in touch with me off list and make an offer. Thanks, Rich Vetterli XL/Corvair Working on wings Check it out at www.geocities.com/stixx5a __________________________________________________ protection around __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:34 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron trim (or not) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I spent many happy hours flying a Cessna Hawk XP with bungee rudder trim. The bungee system was the only thing about this wonderful airplane that seemed to create problems. I felt it didn't do a good job and was an after thought (normally powered C-172's don't need rudder trim, but the huge engine in the XP makes it necessary. I am not sure this experience translates to a Zodiac, but I opted for the electric trim properly installed in the aileron. I suspect this will function much better than the bungee system. I didn't find it at all difficult to install, and it could probably even be installed as an afterthought with the aileron already mounted to the wing. The only really challenging part would be drilling the hole for the electric cable exit from the aileron. Paul >Instead of using the electric trim tab on the aileron >of my XL, I'm planning on installing a modified >version of the Van's spring trim on the stick. Very >K.I.S.S. It will be similar to the "Bungee Trim" >found on the "www.ch601.org" web site, however, I'm >going to use the Ray Allen servo that came with my >trim tab kit to control the tension of the springs >(also similar to the Van's electric/spring trim). >Does anyone see any safety or hazard problems with >this set-up? > > -- ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:47 PM PST US From: "Randy Stout" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question on JD Alt Regulator Greg Have you looked at this? http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/dynamo.html I followed this when I did mine Randy Stout n282rs"at"earthlink.net www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 At 04:04 PM 6/11/06, you wrote: Would appreciate any help you might offer... Reference to John Deere Alternator Regulator pin #5 ... Where does this pin go to: .direct to battery .plus (+) buss bar .or where? Thanks GPJ ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:16 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Compressors one last thought --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" All- I've had the same compressor for many years, and I don't care what make or model you own, there's one PM procedure you can't ignore. Drain the tank after every use. Everything else is secondary. Bill > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? From: "John Hines" Guys, A couple of you guys have been trying to convince me to scratch build since I'm kinda stuck (financially) on my kit. I already have my tail kit complete. I ordered the DVD "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft" last week but haven't received it yet. I was looking on aircraft spruce for pricing on 6061T6 aluminum. Is there a list published somewhere with the quantity and size of materials needed to scratch build? I have also seen a few pictures on builders web pages with full size drawings of templates and aluminum pieces to aid in cutting them out. Where did you get those? Maybe a scratch build newbie convert, John Hines ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:02 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet gun "bounce" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Kinney" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 9:18 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet gun "bounce" Kevin- You'll get bounce with a manual riveter, too. I can't say I solved the problem, but I minimized it. Drill a hole in poster board thickness cardboard slightly larger than the riveter anvil and slide the riveter over the rivet stem, centering the anvil in the hole. Very few "Bounces" will be at 90 degrees, and the cardboard will keep you from garfing up the surface you're riveting. Zero investment, works 90 percent of the time, and isn't time consuming. Good building. Bill > > If your pressure reglator is too high, you will get a bounce. > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:01 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith HD From: calkath@infostations.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: calkath@infostations.com Hello; I'm new to this today I bought a Zenith HD a week or so ago I have not had it delivered yet this is where I have a question. I'm building a trailor and a crate to put the wings in. I would like to know what the distance is from the ground to the belly of the aircraft between the main gear. I have buddy that flys an XL and those measurements ar 22 inches. I was told this week end that the HD sits a tad lower. Can anyone help on this? The trailor and crate are due to head east on the 20th of this month. Thanks Cal ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:00 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Scratch building??? Maybe?? From: "jsimons2" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" Hi John, I got my DVD about 2 weeks ago. I can tell you that after watching it all of the mystery about forming sheet metal is gone. Yes, it is that good. I would highly recommend it to anyone even considering "scrap" building. I chose to scratch build due to the finacial choices I had. Choice #1 - kit, can't afford, don't fly. Choice #2 - scratch build, affordable, fly. I'll be ordering my 601 HDS plans in about a week and a half (next payday). I did, however, luck out on one point. There is a major metal dealer only about 25 miles from me. It may cost a little more (don't really know if it would) but I won't have to pay any shipping charges (YEAH!). Good luck, I'll be joining the Zenith brotherhood soon. Jerome Simons Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40247#40247 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:52 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: molded fuel tank? From: "jsimons2" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" Hi all, Does anyone know if there is a rotationaly molded fuel tank that would work as a header tank for the 601? This is one change from plans that I would like to make if one is available. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40250#40250 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:14 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? From: "Ashcraft, Keith -AES" Hi John, You didn't mention if you were building a 701 or 601. www.ch701.com, or www.ch601.org then go to builders resources and have a look around. I know on the CH701 site there is a fairly complete list, and I am sure there is one on the ch601 site also. Good luck, Keith CH701 - 8% -- scratch N 38.9947 W 105.1305 Alt. 9,100' **************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John Hines Sent: Mon 6/12/2006 5:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? Guys, A couple of you guys have been trying to convince me to scratch build since I'm kinda stuck (financially) on my kit. I already have my tail kit complete. I ordered the DVD "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft" last week but haven't received it yet. I was looking on aircraft spruce for pricing on 6061T6 aluminum. Is there a list published somewhere with the quantity and size of materials needed to scratch build? I have also seen a few pictures on builders web pages with full size drawings of templates and aluminum pieces to aid in cutting them out. Where did you get those? Maybe a scratch build newbie convert, John Hines ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intende d solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If yo u have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and d o not necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mai l. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:59 PM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith HD --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Cal, 22-inches is a fairly close call. I believe the clearance would be an inch shorter, but depends on the engine, weights specific, less radiator shown. See link, http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/hscentersection/full/Zenith-on-the-roadh.jpg Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive calkath@infostations.com wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: calkath@infostations.com > >Hello; I'm new to this today I bought a Zenith HD a week or so ago I have >not had it delivered yet this is where I have a question. I'm building a >trailor and a crate to put the wings in. I would like to know what the >distance is from the ground to the belly of the aircraft between the main >gear. I have buddy that flys an XL and those measurements ar 22 inches. I >was told this week end that the HD sits a tad lower. Can anyone help on >this? The trailor and crate are due to head east on the 20th of this >month. Thanks Cal > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:25 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? From: "John Hines" Keith, Sorry, I'm building a 601 XL. You can check out my progress on my website. www.johnsplane.com John John R. Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Office: 479-878-2449 Mobile: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com www.craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. -----Original Message----- From: Ashcraft, Keith -AES [mailto:Keith.Ashcraft@itt.com] Sent: Mon Jun 12 19:45:09 2006 To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? Hi John, You didn't mention if you were building a 701 or 601. www.ch701.com, or www.ch601.org then go to builders resources and have a look around. I know on the CH701 site there is a fairly complete list, and I am sure there is one on the ch601 site also. Good luck, Keith CH701 - 8% -- scratch N 38.9947 W 105.1305 Alt. 9,100' **************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John Hines Sent: Mon 6/12/2006 5:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? Guys, A couple of you guys have been trying to convince me to scratch build since I'm kinda stuck (financially) on my kit. I already have my tail kit complete. I ordered the DVD "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft" last week but haven't received it yet. I was looking on aircraft spruce for pricing on 6061T6 aluminum. Is there a list published somewhere with the quantity and size of materials needed to scratch build? I have also seen a few pictures on builders web pages with full size drawings of templates and aluminum pieces to aid in cutting them out. Where did you get those? Maybe a scratch build newbie convert, John Hines ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ************************************ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. RE: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe??

Keith,

Sorry, I'm building a 601 XL.  You can check out my progress on my website.   www.johnsplane.com

John


 

John R. Hines
IT Manager
John.Hines@craftontull.com

Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
www.craftontull.com
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 ·Rogers, AR 72756
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
----- Original Message-----
From:   Ashcraft, Keith -AES [mailto:Keith.Ashcraft@itt.com]
Sent:   Mon Jun 12 19:45:09 2006
To:     zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject:        RE: Zenith-List: Scratch building???  Maybe??

Hi John,
You didn't mention if you were building a 701 or 601.

www.ch701.com, or www.ch601.org

then go to builders resources and have a look around. I know on the CH701 site there is a fairly complete list, and I am sure there is one on the ch601 site also.

Good luck,

Keith
CH701 - 8% -- scratch
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
****************************************************


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John Hines
Sent: Mon 6/12/2006 5:03 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch building???  Maybe??

Guys,

A couple of you guys have been trying to convince me to scratch build since I'm kinda stuck (financially) on my kit.  I already  have my tail kit complete.  I ordered the DVD "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft" last week but haven't received it yet.  I was looking on aircraft spruce for pricing on 6061T6 aluminum.  Is there a list published somewhere with the quantity and size of materials needed to scratch build?  I have also seen a few pictures on builders web pages with full size drawings of templates and aluminum pieces to aid in cutting them out.  Where did you get those?

Maybe a scratch build newbie convert,

John Hines



************************************
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:02 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet gun "bounce" It's all in the technique! After several "half moon" dents in the tailfeathers I learned to start the squeeze and then pull back on the riveter. Works good but if you pull too soon you will pull the rivet up slightly and you will end up drilling it out. Jack in Los Osos ca. Plane in Fresno Kevin Kinney wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Kinney Here is something to consider regarding bouncing air rivetters: I've used one (1) from HF & one (1) from ZAC. This isn't much to build an opinion on, but it's all I have. The ZAC rivetter is a lot more "snappy" in it's performance. It's faster than HF, but it does have a rather forceful release when the rivet stem breaks. If your pressure reglator is too high, you will get a bounce. The HF rivetter (which I used on my project) eases into the pull and there's very little reaction when the rivet stem snaps. If you were crticial, you could say it feels lazy. Regardless, it gets the job done. On the whole, I prefer the HF gun, but then I've use that one far more than the ZAC. Regards, Kevin Kinney ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:56 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron trim (or not) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" I must be missing something here... You have a problem with the rudder trim and you put a tab on the aileron??? Why not put a fixed tab on the rudder?? Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Paul Mulwitz > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:04 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron trim (or not) > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > I spent many happy hours flying a Cessna Hawk XP with bungee rudder > trim. The bungee system was the only thing about this wonderful > airplane that seemed to create problems. I felt it didn't do a good > job and was an after thought (normally powered C-172's don't need > rudder trim, but the huge engine in the XP makes it necessary. > > I am not sure this experience translates to a Zodiac, but I opted for > the electric trim properly installed in the aileron. I suspect this > will function much better than the bungee system. I didn't find it > at all difficult to install, and it could probably even be installed > as an afterthought with the aileron already mounted to the wing. The > only really challenging part would be drilling the hole for the > electric cable exit from the aileron. > > Paul > > > > >Instead of using the electric trim tab on the aileron > >of my XL, I'm planning on installing a modified > >version of the Van's spring trim on the stick. Very > >K.I.S.S. It will be similar to the "Bungee Trim" > >found on the "www.ch601.org" web site, however, I'm > >going to use the Ray Allen servo that came with my > >trim tab kit to control the tension of the springs > >(also similar to the Van's electric/spring trim). > >Does anyone see any safety or hazard problems with > >this set-up? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:30 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? John, I have posted a pretty extensive inventory of things needed for plans builders on HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/"www.ch601.org Keith is right you may wish to spend some extended time there. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:56 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? Keith, Sorry, I'm building a 601 XL. You can check out my progress on my website. www.johnsplane.com John John R. Hines IT Manager John.Hines@craftontull.com Office: 479-878-2449 Mobile: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 HYPERLINK "http://www.craftontull.com/"www.craftontull.com 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 =B7Rogers, AR 72756 HYPERLINK "http://www.craftontull.com/" \n Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. -----Original Message----- From: Ashcraft, Keith -AES [HYPERLINK "mailto:Keith.Ashcraft@itt.com"mailto:Keith.Ashcraft@itt.com] Sent: Mon Jun 12 19:45:09 2006 Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? Hi John, You didn't mention if you were building a 701 or 601. www.ch701.com, or www.ch601.org then go to builders resources and have a look around. I know on the CH701 site there is a fairly complete list, and I am sure there is one on the ch601 site also. Good luck, Keith CH701 - 8% -- scratch N 38.9947 W 105.1305 Alt. 9,100' **************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John Hines Sent: Mon 6/12/2006 5:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? Guys, A couple of you guys have been trying to convince me to scratch build since I'm kinda stuck (financially) on my kit. I already have my tail kit complete. I ordered the DVD "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft" last week but haven't received it yet. I was looking on aircraft spruce for pricing on 6061T6 aluminum. Is there a list published somewhere with the quantity and size of materials needed to scratch build? I have also seen a few pictures on builders web pages with full size drawings of templates and aluminum pieces to aid in cutting them out. Where did you get those? Maybe a scratch build newbie convert, John Hines ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ************************************ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -- -- ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:30 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jabiru Bing carb vs Aerocarb --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Darryl, I have the 35mm spigot mount aerocarb mounted to my corvair. I have a header tank, which works very well with the carb. It has been shown by others not to work well with wing tanks and fuel pumps, even with expensive pressure regulators. My experience has been very good. Setup is a sinch, and the engine runs very good with it. It idles smoothly down to 500 rpm. I did install a standard Cont carb heat box (ACS has them for $140) and a homemade heat muff. It didn't take long to fabricate. It runs the Corvair up to about 2600+ RPM on a warp drive set at 9 deg. I will hopefully have flight information to post in a month or so. The only downside I have seen is that it is basically a controlled leak. If you set the mixture to full rich, and not start relatively quickly, it will be dumping fuel into the carb heat box and, if left that way, will just continue to drip... That is the real function of the idle cutoff... R/ Brandon __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:36 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: RE: CH601HD/HDS Main Gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Gents, I built spring gear mounts for my taildragger HDS from pictures supplied to me by another builder. After some ground testing, and jumping the plane up and down under weight, I found that the forward fuselage bottom skin is starting to concave. There is no way it would be able to handle a hard landing. I am currently rebuilding the mount situation, using the XL plans for guidance (which is what I should have done in the first place). Having been through the process, I am not sure that I would build a spring gear again. It would probably be a whole lot easier building mounts for a tri-gear, but it has been a pain for the taildragger. I am getting to the point where I am regretting deviation from the plans. Those of you who are thinking of this mod, give it some good thought. I think I jumped in a little too hastily. ADHD is a bitch! -Please, no "I told you so's." I can see some of you chomping at the bit as you read this! R/ Brandon __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:36 PM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Hello John, I bought all of my raw materials from Yarde Metals in High Point, NC, although they have other warehouses across the US... You can visit their site at: http://www.yarde.com The total cost of materials I bought from them was about $1800...including the thick stuff to build the spring landing gear... For my sheets, I used the cutting/layout templates from http://www.ch601.org and just bought the number of sheets shown on the layouts... For the flat bar, round bar, extrusion angle, I just made a guess at that by looking at the plans and ordered it... I've ordered a few odds & ends from Speedy's Metals. They have just about anything you need and they'll cut to any size for you... And their prices seem to be good too! Here's their URL: http://stores.ebay.com/SPEEDY-METALS-1-888-744-4140 Here's what I ordered from Yarde Metals: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUANTITY - THICKNESS - WIDTH - LENGTH 1 - .016" - 48" X 144" 2 - .020" - 48" X 144" 15 - .025" - 48" X 144" 2 - .032" - 48" X 144" 1 - .040" - 48" X 144" 1 - .063" - 24" X 48" 1 - .090" - 18" X 12" 1 - .125" - 18" X 12" 6 - 12' pieces - 1 1/2" wide X 1/4" thick flat bar. 2 - 12' pieces of 3/4" X 3/4" - 0.093" Thick, extrusion angle. 1 - flat bar - 8" wide - 144" Long - 3/4" thick. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only item I've found I needed more of was the 1 1/2" wide X 1/4" thick flat bar. When I figured what I needed, I forgot to include enough to build the center spar with and ran short there and had to order more... Up to this point, even with a few mistakes, I'm running on schedule, and maybe a little ahead, on materials... There are a lot of the small parts you can make from the scrap you generate, like pieces between wing ribs after you cut them out, that will help conserve your material... NOW, I'm only just about ready to start on the fuselage probably by the end of this month, so I'm a ways from being done... BUT, by my "guesstimation" I really don't think I'll have to order more of the 'standard' materials... I have found that I forgot to order the flat plate to make my front nose fork from and I'll have to order it later... But other than that, I've not found anything I don't have material for... Oh, you'll need some galvanized sheet to make the firewall from... I didn't order this because I'm not sure yet if I'll make mine from galvanized or .015" stainless... The jury is still out on this one.. When I reach a decision, I'll have to order this material... Oh yeah, order about 1 foot of 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" X 1/8" extrusion angle... You'll need this to make your aileron bellcrank supports... One more pointer I'll give you: The plans say to make the fuel tanks from .032" material, and I have enough to do it with... BUT, I'm thinking of ordering enough .050" to make mine from... The welders that I've talked to say that the tanks would be much better, and easier to weld if made from .050" instead of the .032" called for in the plans... This might be something to think of when ordering your raw sheets... If you have any more questions, please ask... Thanks! Randy XL Wings - Plans Only http://www.n344rb.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hines" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 7:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? Guys, A couple of you guys have been trying to convince me to scratch build since I'm kinda stuck (financially) on my kit. I already have my tail kit complete. I ordered the DVD "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft" last week but haven't received it yet. I was looking on aircraft spruce for pricing on 6061T6 aluminum. Is there a list published somewhere with the quantity and size of materials needed to scratch build? I have also seen a few pictures on builders web pages with full size drawings of templates and aluminum pieces to aid in cutting them out. Where did you get those? Maybe a scratch build newbie convert, John Hines ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:36 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron trim (or not) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz Sorry for the confusion. There are two different airplanes involved in this discussion. The bungee rudder trim was on the Cessna. The aileron trim is installed on my Zodiac XL. I used the Cessna example to point out that, in my experience, bungee trim is not a desirable choice compared to good old fashioned trim tabs. Paul XL wings do not archive At 06:51 PM 6/12/2006, you wrote: >I must be missing something here... You have a problem with the rudder trim >and you put a tab on the aileron??? Why not put a fixed tab on the rudder?? > >Noel ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:58 PM PST US From: Tom and Bren Henderson Subject: Zenith-List: Aluminum pricing John, you'd better pick up your material as quickly as possible, as ingot prices tripled in the last 13 months. We spent 2.4 million on LESS aluminum this year than we paid $900 thousand for just a year ago. The only reasoning offered for the hike has been China's recent building boom (less than 10% of our domestic aluminum makes it to China). When it comes down to it, it's the same thing that's happening to gasoline. We pay more because we're willing to. To make a long story short, both Alcoa and Reynolds anticipate that the increases will continue unabated. Of course they say the same thing about gold, so we'll see who's right! Just pick up what you can as soon as you can. Use the info at ch601.org as a general guide for your requirements. It's fairly close to reality. Randy Bryant wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Hello John, I bought all of my raw materials from Yarde Metals in High Point, NC, although they have other warehouses across the US... You can visit their site at: http://www.yarde.com The total cost of materials I bought from them was about $1800...including the thick stuff to build the spring landing gear... For my sheets, I used the cutting/layout templates from http://www.ch601.org and just bought the number of sheets shown on the layouts... For the flat bar, round bar, extrusion angle, I just made a guess at that by looking at the plans and ordered it... I've ordered a few odds & ends from Speedy's Metals. They have just about anything you need and they'll cut to any size for you... And their prices seem to be good too! Here's their URL: http://stores.ebay.com/SPEEDY-METALS-1-888-744-4140 Here's what I ordered from Yarde Metals: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUANTITY - THICKNESS - WIDTH - LENGTH 1 - .016" - 48" X 144" 2 - .020" - 48" X 144" 15 - .025" - 48" X 144" 2 - .032" - 48" X 144" 1 - .040" - 48" X 144" 1 - .063" - 24" X 48" 1 - .090" - 18" X 12" 1 - .125" - 18" X 12" 6 - 12' pieces - 1 1/2" wide X 1/4" thick flat bar. 2 - 12' pieces of 3/4" X 3/4" - 0.093" Thick, extrusion angle. 1 - flat bar - 8" wide - 144" Long - 3/4" thick. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only item I've found I needed more of was the 1 1/2" wide X 1/4" thick flat bar. When I figured what I needed, I forgot to include enough to build the center spar with and ran short there and had to order more... Up to this point, even with a few mistakes, I'm running on schedule, and maybe a little ahead, on materials... There are a lot of the small parts you can make from the scrap you generate, like pieces between wing ribs after you cut them out, that will help conserve your material... NOW, I'm only just about ready to start on the fuselage probably by the end of this month, so I'm a ways from being done... BUT, by my "guesstimation" I really don't think I'll have to order more of the 'standard' materials... I have found that I forgot to order the flat plate to make my front nose fork from and I'll have to order it later... But other than that, I've not found anything I don't have material for... Oh, you'll need some galvanized sheet to make the firewall from... I didn't order this because I'm not sure yet if I'll make mine from galvanized or .015" stainless... The jury is still out on this one.. When I reach a decision, I'll have to order this material... Oh yeah, order about 1 foot of 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" X 1/8" extrusion angle... You'll need this to make your aileron bellcrank supports... One more pointer I'll give you: The plans say to make the fuel tanks from .032" material, and I have enough to do it with... BUT, I'm thinking of ordering enough .050" to make mine from... The welders that I've talked to say that the tanks would be much better, and easier to weld if made from .050" instead of the .032" called for in the plans... This might be something to think of when ordering your raw sheets... If you have any more questions, please ask... Thanks! Randy XL Wings - Plans Only http://www.n344rb.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hines" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 7:03 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch building??? Maybe?? Guys, A couple of you guys have been trying to convince me to scratch build since I'm kinda stuck (financially) on my kit. I already have my tail kit complete. I ordered the DVD "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft" last week but haven't received it yet. I was looking on aircraft spruce for pricing on 6061T6 aluminum. Is there a list published somewhere with the quantity and size of materials needed to scratch build? I have also seen a few pictures on builders web pages with full size drawings of templates and aluminum pieces to aid in cutting them out. Where did you get those? Maybe a scratch build newbie convert, John Hines