Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:35 AM - Re: Raw Materials in South Africa (Jonathan Starke)
2. 12:55 AM - Re: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats (John Marzulli)
3. 04:00 AM - Re: Re: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop (Dave Austin)
4. 04:25 AM - Re: Aluminum pricing (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 04:28 AM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Paul Mulwitz)
6. 04:31 AM - Re: Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Paul Mulwitz)
7. 04:40 AM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (ron dewees)
8. 05:59 AM - Re: Re: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop (Steve Hulland)
9. 05:59 AM - Re: Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Craig Moore)
10. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Re: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop (Jim Hoak)
11. 06:38 AM - Re: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats (William Mileski)
12. 06:48 AM - Re: Riviting the elevator hinge ? (Gig Giacona)
13. 06:48 AM - Re: 601 Track width (Gig Giacona)
14. 06:50 AM - Re: Riviting the elevator hinge ? (LarryMcFarland)
15. 08:44 AM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Noel Loveys)
16. 09:40 AM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
17. 10:14 AM - Rectangular LRI Indicator anyone? (Craig Moore)
18. 10:29 AM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Randy Bryant)
19. 10:37 AM - Zinc Cromate (Carlos Sa)
20. 12:27 PM - Re: Zinc Cromate (ROBERT SCEPPA)
21. 12:50 PM - CH701 Control stick neutral position (Jari Kaija)
22. 12:50 PM - Re: Zinc Cromate (kevinbonds)
23. 01:22 PM - Re: Zinc Cromate - Galvanic spray?? (Carlos Sa)
24. 01:23 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Noel Loveys)
25. 02:38 PM - Re: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way" (Big Gee)
26. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: Re: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop (Steve Hulland)
27. 03:05 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Paul Mulwitz)
28. 03:19 PM - Zinc Cromate - - - the dangerous way (Big Gee)
29. 03:58 PM - Re: Re: Re: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop (Noel Loveys)
30. 04:19 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Noel Loveys)
31. 04:30 PM - Re: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way" (Noel Loveys)
32. 04:40 PM - Re: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way" (Russ M)
33. 04:49 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
34. 05:21 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Robin Bellach)
35. 05:39 PM - Re: Zinc Cromate - Galvanic spray?? (ROBERT SCEPPA)
36. 05:58 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (LarryMcFarland)
37. 06:11 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Randy Bryant)
38. 06:14 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Randy Bryant)
39. 06:22 PM - Re: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way" (Noel Loveys)
40. 06:22 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Randy Bryant)
41. 06:25 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Paul Mulwitz)
42. 06:27 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Randy Bryant)
43. 07:06 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Randy Bryant)
44. 07:14 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (Carlos Sa)
45. 07:19 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (Robin Bellach)
46. 08:23 PM - Re: Compressors one last thought (Dave Thompson)
47. 08:59 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs - See AC 43.13-1B (David Plozay)
48. 09:08 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate (Noel Loveys)
49. 09:11 PM - Re: Bolt Torque Specs (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
50. 09:34 PM - Re: Raw Materials in South Africa (Charles D)
51. 09:56 PM - Vs: Zinc Cromate (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com)
52. 10:35 PM - Re: Air Compressor Air Compressor (Dave Thompson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Raw Materials in South Africa |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" <jonathan@entry.co.za>
Hi Charles,
Did you have any luck in getting Material in SA, now that my XL is flying, I too
am keen on scratch building a 701.
Jonathan Starke
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats |
Especially for everyone else in Seattle who wants to build an amphib.
John in Seattle
http://701Builder.blogspot.com
On 6/13/06, Jean-Paul Roy <jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jean-Paul Roy" <
> jean-paul.roy4@tlb.sympatico.ca>
>
> No problem Max as it was a really interesting reading. It is beneficial to
> all.
>
> Jean-Paul Roy
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <max.johansson@nokia.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:28 AM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: <max.johansson@nokia.com>
> >
> >
> > Sorry listers, this was intended just for Walt but never mind...
> > do not archieve
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > >[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]
> > >Sent: 12 June, 2006 16:39
> > >To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats
> > >
> > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: <max.johansson@nokia.com>
> > >
> > >Walt
> > >
> > >Are there structural enhancements needed for a 701SP-kit ?
> > >I have not implemented any myself...
> > >
> > >Have some experience with CZAW 1150 floats and yesterday a
> > >C42 Ikarus was successfully mounted on CZAW 1200 floats here,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop |
Steve,
Put a helium balloon in the tail..
Do not archive
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum pricing |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Tom,
If only the world were that simple . . .
Aluminum prices are experiencing the same "Bubble" that all
commodities are going through right now. It all started with a real
supply/demand imbalance with crude oil and has extended into wild
price increases in metals and other commodities. While much of the
prices have peaked (gold is back down below $600) there is still a
long way to go to get the prices to more normal levels.
This is not a case of cruel suppliers gouging us dumb consumers. It
is a case of open market fluctuation which seems to have that
effect. The biggest causes include a very weak US Dollar and some
extra demand from China and India entering the Industrial Age.
Some of these things will go away with time. The case of aluminum is
a little different. While it is indeed produced heavily in the USA,
it also is very dependent on energy to extract the metal from
ore. So long as energy prices stay high (which they will until the
dollar strengthens and China and India stop buying petroleum) the
price of aluminum will be elevated.
This is the New World Order so many people wanted . . .
Paul
XL (almost done with) Wings
do not archive
At 11:21 PM 6/13/2006, you wrote:
>For the Record: It's not just offshore outfits jacking up
>prices. Most of the aluminum used in the US is of domestic origin,
>and it's experiencing the same escalating prices. The problem isn't
>China, or any other nation for that matter, raising prices. The
>problem, my friends, is that suppliers have learned the one thing
>we'll wish they hadn't. No matter how much the price increases,
>we'll still jump on the net and place that order.
> Another devastating factor in the metals market is the fact
> that small mills (those large enough to affect pricing) have been
> bought out by Alcoa and the other big three. Time to bend over and
> grit your teeth builders...
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>16.6Lb. suspended at 12" from the centre of the stud = 200"Lb. When
>calibrated this way the torque wrench should be less than 1% out.
This estimate assumes the measurement of 12 inches and 16.6 pounds
have a combined error of less than 1%. I find this conclusion very
unlikely. Still, the procedure will assure a reasonably accurate
torque from the wrench.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>CZAW drawings and they specify the bolts that attach the wings on my
>XL are AN5 15A not AN4 15A.
ZAC drawings for the XL also call for AN5 -15A attach bolts on the
wings. I decided to change to AN5-14A since the originals seemed a
little too long to me.
Paul
XL wings
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
I don't get this guy's math to work out. Is he talking about inch pounds?
Ron
Noel Loveys wrote:
> I only use the drag of the fibre lock nut (AKA friction torque) when
> it is specified. Wearing of the fibres in the locknuts is the main
> reason I dump them after they have been tightened three times. In the
> overall scheme of things they are cheap enough to use relatively new.
>
> As for the torque wrench I tend to check mine out with a known weight
> every couple of months. Right now for 200"Lb. I set for 187"LB.
> checking it is easy as suspending a known weight on the handle at a
> specific distance from the centre of the stud and then adjusting the
> wrench to just click at that torque.
> e.g. 16.6Lb. suspended at 12" from the centre of the stud = 200"Lb.
> When calibrated this way the torque wrench should be less than 1%
> out. you can also put the same weight at 6" top check the calibration
> of 100"Lb.
>
> In Canada torque wrenches used on certified A/C have to have a
> certificate of calibration in effect before the wrench is used.
>
>
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:59 PM
> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
>
> 50 to 70 is NOT "some broad range" in fact + or - 10 inch lbs Is
> a rather standard torque tolerance. Certificated (calibrated)
> torque wrenches are only good to 2 percent of the total range of
> the wrench so if you have a 0 to 150 in lbs wrench it's accurate
> to 3 inch lbs from what you set it to. Sounds like a pretty
> tight specification to me, and I shoot for the mean plus the drag
> of the nylon stop nut.
>
>
> Dave 601-HD 912ULS
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop |
Dave,
Helium ballon might do the trick! But, how about building in a ballon with
an outside valve. Then I can add/delete as required.
Do not Archive--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 701, Amado, AZ
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
Norman,
As this post has been replied to many times, I guess
the original post has been lost, he was asking about
the 6 bolts in the center section of the spar. Copy of
the original post below.
>Subject: Bolt Torque Specs
>From: Randy Bryant (randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com)
>Date: Mon Jun 12 - 7:11 AM
>I am finishing up the center spar for my 601 XL.
>There are 6, AN4-15A bolts that go through the center
>spar. Are there torque specifications on these bolts
>that I need to follow?
>Thanks in advance,
>Randy
>XL Wings - Plans Only
>http://www.n344rb.com
Best regards,
Craig Moore A&P
701 builder wannabe
--- "normskiroo@ukonl" <normskiroo@ukonline.co.uk>
wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> "normskiroo@ukonl" <normskiroo@ukonline.co.uk>
>
> Randy,
>
> A word of caution here, I have this morning checked
> my CZAW drawings and they specify the bolts that
> attach the wings on my XL are AN5 15A not AN4 15A.
> The torque for these bolts according to the data
> CZAW gave me is -
> 100 to 140 in. lb. recommended 11.3 to 15.8 Nm with
> a limit of 25.4 Nm.
>
> I shall, next time a am down at the aircraft use a
> vernier gauge to confirm the size.
> During a wings off/back on operation some time ago I
> managed to strip the threads of one of the bolts
> /nuts by over tightening and I was only using a
> ratchet socket handle six inches long!
> Needless to say the drilling of the bolt head took a
> while to get the whole thing out!
>
> Regards,
> Norman 601 XL G-DONT 40 hours, UK
__________________________________________________
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop |
Steve,
I have a 601HD that tends to run to the aft CG limit with two 200
pounders in the seats and minimum fuel ( 3 Gal ). I have only a 16 Gal
main tank forward of the inst. panel. When I first started construction
I asked Chris H. where the CG would fall with the Rotax 912UL. He said
keep all the weight forward that I could during construction. I did but
still have to watch the aft limit. I still have plenty of elevator on
landing at the aft limit. It would have been nice if ZAC had made the
engine about 1 1/2" longer.
As for your situation, you don't want to carry dead weight around if you
can avoid it, and I assume you don't want to lengthen your engine mount
and cowling so if you have nothing else of substantial weight to move
forward going to a metal prop may be your easiest answer. The other
temporary answer is add just enough lead ( that dreaded dead weight ) to
the engine mount until you can get a metal prop. Depends on your DAR
,but he/she may require you to re-weigh the aircraft if you don't have
all this solved before he/she gets there. I have a friend who had to add
64 pounds of lead to a forward bulkhead of his Loehle 5151 to get the CG
in limits. This much dead weight on an airplane that only weighs 500+
pounds! This was just a poor design thing because many 5151 builders
have added much dead weight. If the metal prop doesn't do the complete
job you may still have to add a little lead forward. Sorry I don't know
anyone who has a metal prop for the 65HP Cont. Good luck on this one.
As for plastic brake lines, I have 515 hours, 9 1/2 years on my plastic
lines with no problems. Only connections are at brake cyl. at the wheels
and the rudder pedals. No connections, no leaks. KISS! I do have a piece
of rubber hose on outside of plastic line where they go into the wheel
fairings to prevent chaffing. Works fine. Up under the wing no one sees
the brake lines anyway!
Have a safe first flight.
Jim Hoak 601HD - 515 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Hulland
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:39 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Zenith-List: RE: CH600 brake lines &
Cont A65 prop
I have a CH 600 that will be ready for the DAR withing 6-8 weeks. I
have a Cont. A65 on the airplane. Would like to move the empty CG
forward just a tiny bit. Right now, with two 200 +/- people and low fuel
(4 gallons or so), the CG is at or behind the aft CG. I figure that a
metal prop would do the trick. I have a wooden prop now. Battery is
already as far forward as I can get it. Nothing else that I add will
make much difference. For example, small panel mounted radio will hardly
move the empty CG. Anyone know someone with a metal prop for a Cont.
A-65?
Brake lines are done in plastic. I really do not like the plastic
showing outside the wheel pants. Thinking of making the last foot or two
out of metal tubing. Any ideas? Successful applications would be nice.
Thanks for your help.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600, Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies
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Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: CH-701 and Czech Amphib floats |
Hi there,
Just thought I'd mention that a year or two ago I flew Skyshop's improve
d amphib installation on the 701. I think it returned the float installa
tion angle to something a bit more efficient, and cruise was about 100mp
h. The installation looks much more standard, and all aspects of perfor
mance seemed impressive. There is still a pic at http://www.ch701.com/b
uilders/Bill%20Mileski/Bill%20Mileski.htm at the bottom. I have been da
ydreaming about amphib floats for a long time and had decided to look in
to this installation should the time come. I seem to remember that Dann
y was very enthusiastic about the improvements and could provide more de
tail for those interested.
Bill Mileski
701 4hrs
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Riviting the elevator hinge ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
I went ahead and rivited it when I built it and it isn't a probelm that I can see.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40934#40934
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Track width |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
I missed the sig line, Sorry.
frank.hinde(at)hp.com wrote:
> Unfortunatly the HDS is not like the XL...The wheels are not the widest
> part, the center wing section is wider than the wheels.
>
> Thanks all the same.
>
> Frank
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40933#40933
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Riviting the elevator hinge ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Jeff,
Don't get in a hurry. The functional aspect of your elevator is way
more important than just putting them together. Make sure your
elevator is complete and fits within the stabilizer correctly first.
Take the time to see that your hinge is not dragging on an opposing
piece and fit it with an appropriate gap so you don't drag paint off
the hinge when you finish it. Do see to the trim mechanism in your
elevator if you intend to have one. Would suggest that you make the
elevator hinge the last connection you disassemble so that you can
ultimately paint the elevator separately. Much easier if the stab and
elevator disassemble from the plane separately. And by all means, do
secure the hinge one side at a time to be sure it doesn't get out of
line. A binding elevator can be a serious problem in flight.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Hudsonmusic1@aol.com wrote:
> I am ready to start riviting the elevator together. Is it OK to rivet
> the hinge to both the elevator and HS at this time? The plans don't
> specify. Thanks, Jeff Hudson.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Yes... symbol for inches is/was " and Ft. '
There fore "Lb. = Inch pounds & 'Lb. = Ft. Lb.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> ron dewees
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 9:06 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
> I don't get this guy's math to work out. Is he talking about
> inch pounds?
> Ron
>
>
> Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> > I only use the drag of the fibre lock nut (AKA friction
> torque) when
> > it is specified. Wearing of the fibres in the locknuts is the main
> > reason I dump them after they have been tightened three
> times. In the
> > overall scheme of things they are cheap enough to use
> relatively new.
> >
> > As for the torque wrench I tend to check mine out with a
> known weight
> > every couple of months. Right now for 200"Lb. I set for 187"LB.
> > checking it is easy as suspending a known weight on the handle at a
> > specific distance from the centre of the stud and then
> adjusting the
> > wrench to just click at that torque.
> > e.g. 16.6Lb. suspended at 12" from the centre of the stud =
> 200"Lb.
> > When calibrated this way the torque wrench should be less than 1%
> > out. you can also put the same weight at 6" top check the
> calibration
> > of 100"Lb.
> >
> > In Canada torque wrenches used on certified A/C have to have a
> > certificate of calibration in effect before the wrench is used.
> >
> >
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Dave
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:59 PM
> > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
> > *Subject:* RE: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
> >
> > 50 to 70 is NOT "some broad range" in fact + or - 10
> inch lbs Is
> > a rather standard torque tolerance. Certificated (calibrated)
> > torque wrenches are only good to 2 percent of the total range of
> > the wrench so if you have a 0 to 150 in lbs wrench it's accurate
> > to 3 inch lbs from what you set it to. Sounds like a pretty
> > tight specification to me, and I shoot for the mean
> plus the drag
> > of the nylon stop nut.
> >
> >
> > Dave 601-HD 912ULS
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
In a message dated 6/13/2006 10:44:46 PM Central Daylight Time,
randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com writes:
thought that the reason for torquing bolts was to achieve the proper
'stretch' in the bolt... I know in an engine, you torque rod bolts, they stretch
and
apply tension to the rod caps and this helps hold the cap on... If you over
torque, you 'stretch' the bolt past its elasticity and loose this extra holding
capacity...
Maybe I'm wrong...?? I just hate having to tighten something as far as it
will go then 1/4 turn more as the torque specs...
The application of the bolt has to be considered. The AN/MS bolts, be they
size 4 OR size 5, and it would be good to know this up front to get the torque
correctly applied, are in a static, clamping design. ZAC reference to AC 43.13
is good advice.
The design of the rod cap bolts, mentioned above, has two functions. Clamping
the cap to the rod, and then withstanding the dynamic loads of the weight of
the piston & rod as it changes direction at top dead center due to crankshaft
rotation. High RPM results in very high tension loads being imposed on the
bolt's. Rod cap bolts are not just ordinary bolts, they are stronger to withstand
the high RPM created dynamic loads imposed. They are usually replaced rather
than being reused.
Some high rpm engines have the rod and rod caps clocked around to reposition
the bolts so they are not in a straight line with the rod, thus relieving some
of the dynamic stress on the bolt.
Some years ago one helicopter design would stretch the rod bolts as the
result of engine over speed events. The bolts would then fail in tension.
Point is, don't confuse bolt's, rod cap, AN, MS, Grade 8, grade what ever,
METRIC,,,,.
Use the correct torque for the bolt spec and size being addressed please.
Check the plans to be sure of the bolt size, then apply the correct torque
for that bolt size. Sorry to be confused, is it size 4 or size 5 that should be
considered here?
Message 17
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| Subject: | Rectangular LRI Indicator anyone? |
All,
Talk recently on the list re LRI's. Some have
previously made comments about the odd size of the
Dwyer minihelic gauge that is specified in the plans
at ch601.org. Out of curiosity, I found a rectangular
0-2" differential pressure gauge. The model I found
that would be best suited for use is the DG87841-1C in
the 500Pa range (500Pa = 2" wc). It is more expensive
than the Dwyer gauge, but some may want/prefer the
rectangle shape. The price quote I received from the
distributor was $96.50 ea. It is available in vertical
or horizontal mounting. The DG87841 is vertical and
the DG87641 is horizontal. There is also a nearly
identical unit available from Manostar, but it was
quoted at $120. I am trying the picture attachment
feature so you can see my iteration of its use.
Contact info: http://fukuda.online411.net/contact.html
Best regards,
Craig Moore A&P
701 builder wannabe
__________________________________________________
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
So basically, the size of the bolt (AN4, AN5..etc.) is all that should
be considered in regards to bolt torque...? What application the bolt
is being used for doesn't play a part..?
I'm not being argumentative on this subject, I just want to be for sure
how many inch pounds or foot pounds I should torque these particular
AN4-15A bolts, being used in the center spar on a 601XL... There are 6
of them... If the correct torque is 70 inch pounds, that's fine by me..
I just want to know for sure that is the correct value and what I should
be torquing to...
This is my first airplane build, so I'm not well versed in a lot of
areas about plane building, and I just thought it was strange that the
plans didn't specify the amount of torque for particular bolts... Maybe
this is completely normal...probably is...
I was just expected a straight answer from ZAC when I asked specifically
what was the torque value for the 6 bolts, called for in their plans, to
bolt the center spar together... I expected an answer such as: "70 inch
pounds"..."100 inch pounds"..etc. Had I asked a broad question such as:
"What is the general torque value for an AN4 bolt", I would expected the
answer I got...Go look in the "Acceptable Methods Techniques, and
Practices" book... But when I asked about a specific bolt, used in a
specific application, specified by their plans, I expected a more
specific answer...
Again, this is my first airplane project and maybe this was the correct
answer, I was just expecting something a little more specific...
Thanks again,
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
In a message dated 6/13/2006 10:44:46 PM Central Daylight Time,
randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com writes:
thought that the reason for torquing bolts was to achieve the proper
'stretch' in the bolt... I know in an engine, you torque rod bolts,
they stretch and apply tension to the rod caps and this helps hold the
cap on... If you over torque, you 'stretch' the bolt past its
elasticity and loose this extra holding capacity...
Maybe I'm wrong...?? I just hate having to tighten something as far
as it will go then 1/4 turn more as the torque specs...
The application of the bolt has to be considered. The AN/MS bolts, be
they size 4 OR size 5, and it would be good to know this up front to get
the torque correctly applied, are in a static, clamping design. ZAC
reference to AC 43.13 is good advice.
The design of the rod cap bolts, mentioned above, has two functions.
Clamping the cap to the rod, and then withstanding the dynamic loads of
the weight of the piston & rod as it changes direction at top dead
center due to crankshaft rotation. High RPM results in very high tension
loads being imposed on the bolt's. Rod cap bolts are not just ordinary
bolts, they are stronger to withstand the high RPM created dynamic loads
imposed. They are usually replaced rather than being reused.
Some high rpm engines have the rod and rod caps clocked around to
reposition the bolts so they are not in a straight line with the rod,
thus relieving some of the dynamic stress on the bolt.
Some years ago one helicopter design would stretch the rod bolts as
the result of engine over speed events. The bolts would then fail in
tension.
Point is, don't confuse bolt's, rod cap, AN, MS, Grade 8, grade what
ever, METRIC,,,,.
Use the correct torque for the bolt spec and size being addressed
please.
Check the plans to be sure of the bolt size, then apply the correct
torque for that bolt size. Sorry to be confused, is it size 4 or size 5
that should be considered here?
Message 19
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A little tip I'd like to pass on:
I use zinc cromate (or some equivalent) in spray cans to prime parts.
I had read long ago in this list that somebody opens the spray can and applies
the primer with a sponge brush.
I tried it, and it works beautifully. No waste, no spraying things you didn't mean
to (like plants, the floor, the wall, the neighbor's SUV, the cat's tail,
etc.), no nasty stuff in your lungs (of course, the fumes from the paint is still
there, so a well ventilated room is essential - but your lungs won't turn
yellow).
One just needs to be very careful when opening the can... That first little hole
can make a mess...
Happy building
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Building aeroplanes since 1999. (still working on the first one)
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Cromate |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> Carlos, did you punch a little hole in the can? I
> assume you did, but the can had to have had little
> pressure in it. I thought I would use the Galavanic
> spray from Rustoleum...Bob S
--- Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A little tip I'd like to pass on:
>
> I use zinc cromate (or some equivalent) in spray
> cans to prime parts.
>
> I had read long ago in this list that somebody opens
> the spray can and applies the primer with a sponge
> brush.
> I tried it, and it works beautifully. No waste, no
> spraying things you didn't mean to (like plants, the
> floor, the wall, the neighbor's SUV, the cat's tail,
> etc.), no nasty stuff in your lungs (of course, the
> fumes from the paint is still there, so a well
> ventilated room is essential - but your lungs won't
> turn yellow).
>
> One just needs to be very careful when opening the
> can... That first little hole can make a mess...
>
>
>
> Happy building
>
> Carlos
> CH601-HD, plans
> Building aeroplanes since 1999. (still working on
> the first one)
>
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: | CH701 Control stick neutral position |
Hello, my name is McClure, maybe you remember me of... naah...
Yep. I love Simpsons (cartoon) :-)
Ok, the real question. When installing control stick. What is it's
neutral position? 0 degree, measured from seat's front (alum.) sheet,
90 degree measured from the floor or something else?
Need to know, before I cut elevator's "pushing pipe" for control stick.
----------------------------------
http://www.jarikaija.com
http://www.project-ch701.net
Message 22
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Do you turn the can upside down and spray out all of the propellant first? I
haven't tried this yet.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
<http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds> http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
One just needs to be very careful when opening the can... That first little
hole can make a mess...
Happy building
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Building aeroplanes since 1999. (still working on the first one)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Cromate - Galvanic spray?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Robert, I used two cans that were half-empty (if they were half-full I'd have to
turn them upside down, you see... :-) ).
I used a (manual) can opener. I just let the pressure come down after I made the
initial hole. Only after it got quiet did I start cutting around.
With a full can, I was thinking of turning it upside down and pressing the valve
to release the pressure. It will spray a bit of the primer, and then it should
be the propelant only coming out. Then it should be safe to puncture it (that's
the procedure for cleaning the valve).
I am unfamiliar with the "Galvanic spray"... can you tell me more?
Carlos
----- Original Message ----
From: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:20:24 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> Carlos, did you punch a little hole in the can? I
> assume you did, but the can had to have had little
> pressure in it. I thought I would use the Galavanic
> spray from Rustoleum...Bob S
Message 24
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| Subject: | Bolt Torque Specs |
Randy:
The size of the bolt is the prime consideration to use when determining
the
torque to put on a nut or bolt. However the application can also be
taken
into consideration. In those instances the MMM ( Manufacturers
Maintenance
Manual) will give you a specific torque to use. The MM will also
specify if
you should take into account the extra friction on locknuts (Friction
torque) or not. for all the rest of the applications you are safe to
use
the torques in AC43. Remember to make sure no less than 1.5 threads
(Puts
the nut into safety)and no more than 3 threads (stops the nut from
shouldering out on the bolt) show through a lock nut. All this and
much,
much more is covered in AC43.
For most things you can use the data in AC43 but be careful that there
isn't
conflicting data in the ZAC manuals. In that case always follow the
manual.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Bryant
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
So basically, the size of the bolt (AN4, AN5..etc.) is all that should
be
considered in regards to bolt torque...? What application the bolt is
being
used for doesn't play a part..?
I'm not being argumentative on this subject, I just want to be for sure
how
many inch pounds or foot pounds I should torque these particular AN4-15A
bolts, being used in the center spar on a 601XL... There are 6 of
them...
If the correct torque is 70 inch pounds, that's fine by me.. I just want
to
know for sure that is the correct value and what I should be torquing
to...
This is my first airplane build, so I'm not well versed in a lot of
areas
about plane building, and I just thought it was strange that the plans
didn't specify the amount of torque for particular bolts... Maybe this
is
completely normal...probably is...
I was just expected a straight answer from ZAC when I asked specifically
what was the torque value for the 6 bolts, called for in their plans, to
bolt the center spar together... I expected an answer such as: "70 inch
pounds"..."100 inch pounds"..etc. Had I asked a broad question such as:
"What is the general torque value for an AN4 bolt", I would expected the
answer I got...Go look in the "Acceptable Methods Techniques, and
Practices"
book... But when I asked about a specific bolt, used in a specific
application, specified by their plans, I expected a more specific
answer...
Again, this is my first airplane project and maybe this was the correct
answer, I was just expecting something a little more specific...
Thanks again,
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
In a message dated 6/13/2006 10:44:46 PM Central Daylight Time,
randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com writes:
thought that the reason for torquing bolts was to achieve the proper
'stretch' in the bolt... I know in an engine, you torque rod bolts,
they
stretch and apply tension to the rod caps and this helps hold the cap
on...
If you over torque, you 'stretch' the bolt past its elasticity and loose
this extra holding capacity...
Maybe I'm wrong...?? I just hate having to tighten something as far as
it
will go then 1/4 turn more as the torque specs...
The application of the bolt has to be considered. The AN/MS bolts, be
they
size 4 OR size 5, and it would be good to know this up front to get the
torque correctly applied, are in a static, clamping design. ZAC
reference to
AC 43.13 is good advice.
The design of the rod cap bolts, mentioned above, has two functions.
Clamping the cap to the rod, and then withstanding the dynamic loads of
the
weight of the piston & rod as it changes direction at top dead center
due to
crankshaft rotation. High RPM results in very high tension loads being
imposed on the bolt's. Rod cap bolts are not just ordinary bolts, they
are
stronger to withstand the high RPM created dynamic loads imposed. They
are
usually replaced rather than being reused.
Some high rpm engines have the rod and rod caps clocked around to
reposition
the bolts so they are not in a straight line with the rod, thus
relieving
some of the dynamic stress on the bolt.
Some years ago one helicopter design would stretch the rod bolts as the
result of engine over speed events. The bolts would then fail in
tension.
Point is, don't confuse bolt's, rod cap, AN, MS, Grade 8, grade what
ever,
METRIC,,,,.
Use the correct torque for the bolt spec and size being addressed
please.
Check the plans to be sure of the bolt size, then apply the correct
torque
for that bolt size. Sorry to be confused, is it size 4 or size 5 that
should
be considered here?
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way" |
this sounds "kind of dangerous", like an accident waiting to happen !
Fritz
Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
Robert, I used two cans that were half-empty (if they were half-full I'd have to
turn them upside down, you see... :-) ).
I used a (manual) can opener. I just let the pressure come down after I made the
initial hole. Only after it got quiet did I start cutting around.
With a full can, I was thinking of turning it upside down and pressing the valve
to release the pressure. It will spray a bit of the primer, and then it should
be the propelant only coming out. Then it should be safe to puncture it (that's
the procedure for cleaning the valve).
I am unfamiliar with the "Galvanic spray"... can you tell me more?
Carlos
----- Original Message ----
From: ROBERT SCEPPA
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:20:24 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA
> Carlos, did you punch a little hole in the can? I
> assume you did, but the can had to have had little
> pressure in it. I thought I would use the Galavanic
> spray from Rustoleum...Bob S
__________________________________________________
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop |
Jim Hoak,
Thanks for the nice answer. My 600 has a Gross Weight of 1,200lb. Empty
weight of 605. When empty the Aft CG is 23.37% of MAC. All calculations
assume crew weight of 215 per person, 48 lb. baggage, 6lb fuel when empty,
96lb fuel when full. With one person and empty fuel Aft CG is 30.99% of MAC;
Full fuel with one person CG is 26.29% of MAC; Full fuel & two people, Aft
CG is 29.22% of MAC; Two people and no fuel, Aft CG is 29.22% of MAC.
Using 30% of MAC as the maximum acceptable AFT CG, One person with the
airplane empty shows the airplane out of CG aft. Not a problem because I
should never get empty while flying and the absolute max CG aft is 31.5% of
MAC. The situation with two people and being very low on fuel is the one I
would like to move forward a bit - hence a metal prop might do the trick. I
estimate that a metal prop weighing 12 pounds more than the existing wooden
one will put the empty CG somewhere near 21% of MAC - well within the min.
acceptable of 18% of MAC. Once I know the weight of a metal prop, I can see
if this might work - although it can easily move the Aft CG to a bit less
than 18% of MAC. If it does, then that solution will not work.
One thing that is nice is my Excel Spreadsheet for the CG. I can plug in
numbers anywhere and find out what happens to the CG. For example, if I add
a small panel radio, it will change CG and I can figure out by how much.
As with your friend, I could add a bit of lead to the engine frame. I doubt
if it would need more than a few pounds and might be the best solution.
I really like your idea concerning rubber or some other material over the
brake lines where they come through the wheel pants to prevent chafing. I
may simply do someting like that and as you say, KISS.
Anyway, gonna get this stuff done along with a few other minor items and
should be ready for DAR in August. That is the goal.
Thanks for your input, it was helpful.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600, Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned
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free email and attachments.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I think this issue is getting way overblown. My personal guess is it
doesn't really matter how much torque is applied to these particular
bolts. If you just turn the wrench until the nuts seem tight then it
will probably be OK.
My reasoning is a result of my analysis of the actual function of
these bolts. It seems to me the primary function of the bolts is to
prevent the wing spars from moving with respect to the center
pass-thru structure. In this application the really important
quality is the shear strength of the bolts rather than how tightly
they are attached. The real load is completely in the shear
direction. The only purpose of the nut is to keep the bolt in place
so the strength of the bolt shaft can do its job.
This application is quite different from the bolts that hold a
cylinder head in place on an engine. In the cylinder head case it is
important that the bolts are properly torqued so the force holding
the head in place is evenly distributed. This prevents warping of the head.
I admit I am not really a qualified mechanical or aeronautical
engineer. This is just my best guess. It is also consistent with
ZAC folks basically saying they don't really know or care how much
torque is used for this application.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
>I'm not being argumentative on this subject, I just want to be for
>sure how many inch pounds or foot pounds I should torque these
>particular AN4-15A bolts, being used in the center spar on a
>601XL... There are 6 of them... If the correct torque is 70 inch
>pounds, that's fine by me.. I just want to know for sure that is the
>correct value and what I should be torquing to...
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Zinc Cromate - - - the dangerous way |
this sounds "kind of dangerous", like an accident waiting to happen !
Fritz
Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
Robert, I used two cans that were half-empty (if they were half-full I'd have to
turn them upside down, you see... :-) ).
I used a (manual) can opener. I just let the pressure come down after I made the
initial hole. Only after it got quiet did I start cutting around.
With a full can, I was thinking of turning it upside down and pressing the valve
to release the pressure. It will spray a bit of the primer, and then it should
be the propelant only coming out. Then it should be safe to puncture it (that's
the procedure for cleaning the valve).
I am unfamiliar with the "Galvanic spray"... can you tell me more?
Carlos
----- Original Message ----
From: ROBERT SCEPPA
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:20:24 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA
> Carlos, did you punch a little hole in the can? I
> assume you did, but the can had to have had little
> pressure in it. I thought I would use the Galavanic
> spray from Rustoleum...Bob S
__________________________________________________
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop |
Increasing the mass of the prop by 12 Lb. is going to increase the
gyroscopic forces on the end of the crank quite a bit. It may also have
a
considerable effect on how the plane handles in turns, climbs and
descents.
I think your idea of weighting the engine mount is the better idea.
One more answer may be to have a spacer/weight installed over the hub of
the
prop At a distance of a couple of inches from the centre of rotation
the
gyroscopic forces won't be too large and the weight will actually be in
front of the prop. Of course the weight will have to be dynamically
balanced
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Hulland
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: RE: CH600 brake lines & Cont A65 prop
Jim Hoak,
Thanks for the nice answer. My 600 has a Gross Weight of 1,200lb. Empty
weight of 605. When empty the Aft CG is 23.37% of MAC. All calculations
assume crew weight of 215 per person, 48 lb. baggage, 6lb fuel when
empty,
96lb fuel when full. With one person and empty fuel Aft CG is 30.99% of
MAC;
Full fuel with one person CG is 26.29% of MAC; Full fuel & two people,
Aft
CG is 29.22% of MAC; Two people and no fuel, Aft CG is 29.22% of MAC.
Using 30% of MAC as the maximum acceptable AFT CG, One person with the
airplane empty shows the airplane out of CG aft. Not a problem because I
should never get empty while flying and the absolute max CG aft is 31.5%
of
MAC. The situation with two people and being very low on fuel is the one
I
would like to move forward a bit - hence a metal prop might do the
trick. I
estimate that a metal prop weighing 12 pounds more than the existing
wooden
one will put the empty CG somewhere near 21% of MAC - well within the
min.
acceptable of 18% of MAC. Once I know the weight of a metal prop, I can
see
if this might work - although it can easily move the Aft CG to a bit
less
than 18% of MAC. If it does, then that solution will not work.
One thing that is nice is my Excel Spreadsheet for the CG. I can plug in
numbers anywhere and find out what happens to the CG. For example, if I
add
a small panel radio, it will change CG and I can figure out by how much.
As with your friend, I could add a bit of lead to the engine frame. I
doubt
if it would need more than a few pounds and might be the best solution.
I really like your idea concerning rubber or some other material over
the
brake lines where they come through the wheel pants to prevent chafing.
I
may simply do someting like that and as you say, KISS.
Anyway, gonna get this stuff done along with a few other minor items and
should be ready for DAR in August. That is the goal.
Thanks for your input, it was helpful.
--
Semper Fi,
Steven R. Hulland
CH 600, Amado, AZ
This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies
scanned
prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure
virus
free email and attachments.
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
You are right Paul the loads on these bolts are shear and not tensile. The
application could probably be better suited to AN5 - 15 bolts with
castellated nuts and cotter pins. But if ZAC specifies the -15a bolts with
fibre locknuts they must have a reason. That reason may not be outwardly
apparent.
I put an Ivo on a plane and noticed that the heads of the mounting bolts
were not drilled for lock wiring... Thinking this was a mistake I phoned
the factory to check it out. What I was told was they intentionally didn't
used drilled heads because they wanted the owners of their props to spend
time inspecting the blade roots and checking the torque on the prop blots at
regular intervals. They said people don't like to cut lock wire because
they have problems getting it back properly
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Paul Mulwitz
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:32 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I think this issue is getting way overblown. My personal guess is it
> doesn't really matter how much torque is applied to these particular
> bolts. If you just turn the wrench until the nuts seem tight then it
> will probably be OK.
>
> My reasoning is a result of my analysis of the actual function of
> these bolts. It seems to me the primary function of the bolts is to
> prevent the wing spars from moving with respect to the center
> pass-thru structure. In this application the really important
> quality is the shear strength of the bolts rather than how tightly
> they are attached. The real load is completely in the shear
> direction. The only purpose of the nut is to keep the bolt in place
> so the strength of the bolt shaft can do its job.
>
> This application is quite different from the bolts that hold a
> cylinder head in place on an engine. In the cylinder head case it is
> important that the bolts are properly torqued so the force holding
> the head in place is evenly distributed. This prevents
> warping of the head.
>
> I admit I am not really a qualified mechanical or aeronautical
> engineer. This is just my best guess. It is also consistent with
> ZAC folks basically saying they don't really know or care how much
> torque is used for this application.
>
> Paul
> XL wings
> do not archive
>
>
>
> >I'm not being argumentative on this subject, I just want to be for
> >sure how many inch pounds or foot pounds I should torque these
> >particular AN4-15A bolts, being used in the center spar on a
> >601XL... There are 6 of them... If the correct torque is 70 inch
> >pounds, that's fine by me.. I just want to know for sure that is the
> >correct value and what I should be torquing to...
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way" |
Why not buy the zinc chromate in a can??? not a spray bomb. It's
available. They even have epoxy based chromate for the guys who have to
glue their skins on like myself. Though I've been interested in the
Zenith
aircraft for quite a few years now, I fly a tube and rag with folding
wings.
My dream is a 601XL on amphib floats!! You never know maybe over next
winter I'll start a scratch build.
Work brings me in contact with all kinds of certified aircraft. there
seems
to be an inverse proportionality here ... the smaller the plane the more
fun
and the more interesting to fly.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Big Gee
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way"
this sounds "kind of dangerous", like an accident waiting to happen !
Fritz
Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
Robert, I used two cans that were half-empty (if they were half-full I'd
have to turn them upside down, you see... :-) ).
I used a (manual) can opener. I just let the pressure come down after I
made
the initial hole. Only after it got quiet did I start cutting around.
With a full can, I was thinking of turning it upside down and pressing
the
valve to release the pressure. It will spray a bit of the primer, and
then
it should be the propelant only coming out. Then it should be safe to
puncture it (that's the procedure for cleaning the valve).
I am unfamiliar with the "Galvanic spray"... can you tell me
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way" |
MessageIf you guys dont mind me interjecting a minute,? I am not only
building a 701 with a friend, but also building a Wagabond, and would
like to know who makes the zinc chromate in epoxy form?, so I can do my
tubes with it when I am ready.
Thanks,
Russ M
West Chester, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way"
Why not buy the zinc chromate in a can??? not a spray bomb. It's
available. They even have epoxy based chromate for the guys who have to
glue their skins on like myself. Though I've been interested in the
Zenith aircraft for quite a few years now, I fly a tube and rag with
folding wings.
My dream is a 601XL on amphib floats!! You never know maybe over next
winter I'll start a scratch build.
Work brings me in contact with all kinds of certified aircraft. there
seems to be an inverse proportionality here ... the smaller the plane
the more fun and the more interesting to fly.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Big Gee
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:05 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way"
this sounds "kind of dangerous", like an accident waiting to happen
!
Fritz
Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
Robert, I used two cans that were half-empty (if they were
half-full I'd have to turn them upside down, you see... :-) ).
I used a (manual) can opener. I just let the pressure come down
after I made the initial hole. Only after it got quiet did I start
cutting around.
With a full can, I was thinking of turning it upside down and
pressing the valve to release the pressure. It will spray a bit of the
primer, and then it should be the propelant only coming out. Then it
should be safe to puncture it (that's the procedure for cleaning the
valve).
I am unfamiliar with the "Galvanic spray"... can you tell me
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
In a message dated 6/14/2006 12:30:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com writes:
So basically, the size of the bolt (AN4, AN5..etc.) is all that should be
considered in regards to bolt torque...? What application the bolt is being used
for doesn't play a part..?
Randy, Both are considered by the designer.
As for us,, There is much to learn in this great hobby of ours, amateur built
aircraft. Hardware is a significant part of the learning. What fasteners are
and how they are used in the design is not the least of it.
As others have said, the plans and builders hand books lay it out, mostly.
The designer has done the work for us, you did well to ask ZAC. Not liking their
answer is another thing.
Finding a good EAA chapter, and a Technical Counselor for help is a good
start for a new project. Lot's of help available through the EAA Aviation Safety
Program. nuf said.
Looking at a Standard Aviation Maintenance Handbook, Jeppesen, and the FAA
AC's, 43.13 & others, you will find that the bolt and the nut called for,
determine the torque for a particular installation, and the use, sheer or tension,
as well as size all are factors. So it is useful to study up, and understand
the designers plans and specs. builder hand books.
Do not buy the thought that it does not really matter what the torque is. We
are very lucky to have the experience of others in aviation there for our
benefit now.
Specifically, It is concerning that at least two other builders on the list
have commented that their plans call for size 5 bolts, while you continue to
mention size 4 bolts? So I wonder if all three 601 builders are looking at the
plans correctly?
Can you please look again to verify the size bolts in the wing you have been
wondering about.
Jerry
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
Seems to me there was some confusion over which bolts. the six center
bolts, as I think were originally inquired about, are AN4, while the 12
wing attachment bolts are AN5, no?
----- Original Message -----
From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
In a message dated 6/14/2006 12:30:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com writes:
So basically, the size of the bolt (AN4, AN5..etc.) is all that
should be considered in regards to bolt torque...? What application the
bolt is being used for doesn't play a part..?
Randy, Both are considered by the designer.
As for us,, There is much to learn in this great hobby of ours,
amateur built aircraft. Hardware is a significant part of the learning.
What fasteners are and how they are used in the design is not the least
of it.
As others have said, the plans and builders hand books lay it out,
mostly. The designer has done the work for us, you did well to ask ZAC.
Not liking their answer is another thing.
Finding a good EAA chapter, and a Technical Counselor for help is a
good start for a new project. Lot's of help available through the EAA
Aviation Safety Program. nuf said.
Looking at a Standard Aviation Maintenance Handbook, Jeppesen, and the
FAA AC's, 43.13 & others, you will find that the bolt and the nut called
for, determine the torque for a particular installation, and the use,
sheer or tension, as well as size all are factors. So it is useful to
study up, and understand the designers plans and specs. builder hand
books.
Do not buy the thought that it does not really matter what the torque
is. We are very lucky to have the experience of others in aviation there
for our benefit now.
Specifically, It is concerning that at least two other builders on the
list have commented that their plans call for size 5 bolts, while you
continue to mention size 4 bolts? So I wonder if all three 601 builders
are looking at the plans correctly?
Can you please look again to verify the size bolts in the wing you
have been wondering about.
Jerry
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Zinc Cromate - Galvanic spray?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> I got Galvanic spray at Home Depot..Bob S
--- Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
> <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Robert, I used two cans that were half-empty (if
> they were half-full I'd have to turn them upside
> down, you see... :-) ).
> I used a (manual) can opener. I just let the
> pressure come down after I made the initial hole.
> Only after it got quiet did I start cutting around.
>
> With a full can, I was thinking of turning it upside
> down and pressing the valve to release the pressure.
> It will spray a bit of the primer, and then it
> should be the propelant only coming out. Then it
> should be safe to puncture it (that's the procedure
> for cleaning the valve).
>
> I am unfamiliar with the "Galvanic spray"... can you
> tell me more?
>
>
> Carlos
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep@yahoo.com>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:20:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA
> <rjscep@yahoo.com>
>
> > Carlos, did you punch a little hole in the can? I
> > assume you did, but the can had to have had little
> > pressure in it. I thought I would use the
> Galavanic
> > spray from Rustoleum...Bob S
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Randy,
The best option is to use the best rated torque allowable specified for
-inch bolt, 125K material and fine threads. Torque should be not less
than 100-inch-pounds for a bolt of this size. The designer sized the
bolt for shear loads involved and the torque required insures best grip
between material surfaces that keep the spars and plates from slipping
on one another. One cannot assume that bolt holes will remain sized
well enough to take care of it in shear alone. The materials are way
too thin for that long term. Steel buildings are torqued religiously
for the same reasons. The material grip between beams is as important
as the tension and shear of the bolt. Your spars are not the place to
become complacent about this question. Example: Warp Drive specifies
120 inch pounds for the same size 125K bolt to secure their aluminum
prop sandwich. 100 inch pounds would be a good place to start.
Respectfully,
Larry McFarland
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I think this issue is getting way overblown. My personal guess is it
> doesn't really matter how much torque is applied to these particular
> bolts. If you just turn the wrench until the nuts seem tight then it
> will probably be OK.
>
> I admit I am not really a qualified mechanical or aeronautical
> engineer. This is just my best guess. It is also consistent with ZAC
> folks basically saying they don't really know or care how much torque
> is used for this application.
>
> Paul
> XL wings
> do not archive
>
>
>> I'm not being argumentative on this subject, I just want to be for
>> sure how many inch pounds or foot pounds I should torque these
>> particular AN4-15A bolts, being used in the center spar on a 601XL...
>> There are 6 of them... If the correct torque is 70 inch pounds,
>> that's fine by me.. I just want to know for sure that is the correct
>> value and what I should be torquing to...
>>
>
>
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
You are right... kinda... I know which bolts, the center spar takes the
AN4-15A, six of them, and the 12 wing attachment bolts take AN5-15A...
I was just curious, that in this particular application, the center spar
AND the wing attachment bolts, how many inch pounds, foot pounds...etc.,
ever what denomination you want to give, are the particular bolts
torqued to?
Thanks,
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Bellach
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
Seems to me there was some confusion over which bolts. the six center
bolts, as I think were originally inquired about, are AN4, while the 12
wing attachment bolts are AN5, no?
----- Original Message -----
From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
In a message dated 6/14/2006 12:30:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com writes:
So basically, the size of the bolt (AN4, AN5..etc.) is all that
should be considered in regards to bolt torque...? What application the
bolt is being used for doesn't play a part..?
Randy, Both are considered by the designer.
As for us,, There is much to learn in this great hobby of ours,
amateur built aircraft. Hardware is a significant part of the learning.
What fasteners are and how they are used in the design is not the least
of it.
As others have said, the plans and builders hand books lay it out,
mostly. The designer has done the work for us, you did well to ask ZAC.
Not liking their answer is another thing.
Finding a good EAA chapter, and a Technical Counselor for help is a
good start for a new project. Lot's of help available through the EAA
Aviation Safety Program. nuf said.
Looking at a Standard Aviation Maintenance Handbook, Jeppesen, and
the FAA AC's, 43.13 & others, you will find that the bolt and the nut
called for, determine the torque for a particular installation, and the
use, sheer or tension, as well as size all are factors. So it is useful
to study up, and understand the designers plans and specs. builder hand
books.
Do not buy the thought that it does not really matter what the
torque is. We are very lucky to have the experience of others in
aviation there for our benefit now.
Specifically, It is concerning that at least two other builders on
the list have commented that their plans call for size 5 bolts, while
you continue to mention size 4 bolts? So I wonder if all three 601
builders are looking at the plans correctly?
Can you please look again to verify the size bolts in the wing you
have been wondering about.
Jerry
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
Thanks!
The answers are getting better and more easy for me to understand...
Basically the way I'm understanding it now, is that if the load on a
particular bolt being used is shear, as long as the "bolt stays through the
hole" it's Ok...
When it comes to a bolt loaded and relying on it's tensile strength, torque
is a more important factor...
Correct??
Thanks much,
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> You are right Paul the loads on these bolts are shear and not tensile.
> The
> application could probably be better suited to AN5 - 15 bolts with
> castellated nuts and cotter pins. But if ZAC specifies the -15a bolts
> with
> fibre locknuts they must have a reason. That reason may not be outwardly
> apparent.
>
> I put an Ivo on a plane and noticed that the heads of the mounting bolts
> were not drilled for lock wiring... Thinking this was a mistake I phoned
> the factory to check it out. What I was told was they intentionally
> didn't
> used drilled heads because they wanted the owners of their props to spend
> time inspecting the blade roots and checking the torque on the prop blots
> at
> regular intervals. They said people don't like to cut lock wire because
> they have problems getting it back properly
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Paul Mulwitz
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:32 PM
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
>>
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>>
>> I think this issue is getting way overblown. My personal guess is it
>> doesn't really matter how much torque is applied to these particular
>> bolts. If you just turn the wrench until the nuts seem tight then it
>> will probably be OK.
>>
>> My reasoning is a result of my analysis of the actual function of
>> these bolts. It seems to me the primary function of the bolts is to
>> prevent the wing spars from moving with respect to the center
>> pass-thru structure. In this application the really important
>> quality is the shear strength of the bolts rather than how tightly
>> they are attached. The real load is completely in the shear
>> direction. The only purpose of the nut is to keep the bolt in place
>> so the strength of the bolt shaft can do its job.
>>
>> This application is quite different from the bolts that hold a
>> cylinder head in place on an engine. In the cylinder head case it is
>> important that the bolts are properly torqued so the force holding
>> the head in place is evenly distributed. This prevents
>> warping of the head.
>>
>> I admit I am not really a qualified mechanical or aeronautical
>> engineer. This is just my best guess. It is also consistent with
>> ZAC folks basically saying they don't really know or care how much
>> torque is used for this application.
>>
>> Paul
>> XL wings
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>> >I'm not being argumentative on this subject, I just want to be for
>> >sure how many inch pounds or foot pounds I should torque these
>> >particular AN4-15A bolts, being used in the center spar on a
>> >601XL... There are 6 of them... If the correct torque is 70 inch
>> >pounds, that's fine by me.. I just want to know for sure that is the
>> >correct value and what I should be torquing to...
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way" |
I think Aviall has it in their catalogue
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russ M
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way"
If you guys dont mind me interjecting a minute,? I am not only building
a
701 with a friend, but also building a Wagabond, and would like to know
who
makes the zinc chromate in epoxy form?, so I can do my tubes with it
when I
am ready.
Thanks,
Russ M
West Chester, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel <mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> Loveys
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way"
Why not buy the zinc chromate in a can??? not a spray bomb. It's
available. They even have epoxy based chromate for the guys who have to
glue their skins on like myself. Though I've been interested in the
Zenith
aircraft for quite a few years now, I fly a tube and rag with folding
wings.
My dream is a 601XL on amphib floats!! You never know maybe over next
winter I'll start a scratch build.
Work brings me in contact with all kinds of certified aircraft. there
seems
to be an inverse proportionality here ... the smaller the plane the more
fun
and the more interesting to fly.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Big Gee
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way"
this sounds "kind of dangerous", like an accident waiting to happen !
Fritz
Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
Robert, I used two cans that were half-empty (if they were half-full I'd
have to turn them upside down, you see... :-) ).
I used a (manual) can opener. I just let the pressure come down after I
made
the initial hole. Only after it got quiet did I start cutting around.
With a full can, I was thinking of turning it upside down and pressing
the
valve to release the pressure. It will spray a bit of the primer, and
then
it should be the propelant only coming out. Then it should be safe to
puncture it (that's the procedure for cleaning the valve).
I am unfamiliar with the "Galvanic spray"... can you tell me
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
Thanks Larry,
Yet another good answer... We may get to the to bottom of this after all!
:-)
I agree, about the spars being an important part, if I didn't think so, I
would have never brought this up...
Thanks again,
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Randy,
>
> The best option is to use the best rated torque allowable specified for
> -inch bolt, 125K material and fine threads. Torque should be not less
> than 100-inch-pounds for a bolt of this size. The designer sized the bolt
> for shear loads involved and the torque required insures best grip between
> material surfaces that keep the spars and plates from slipping on one
> another. One cannot assume that bolt holes will remain sized well enough
> to take care of it in shear alone. The materials are way too thin for
> that long term. Steel buildings are torqued religiously for the same
> reasons. The material grip between beams is as important as the tension
> and shear of the bolt. Your spars are not the place to become complacent
> about this question. Example: Warp Drive specifies 120 inch pounds for
> the same size 125K bolt to secure their aluminum prop sandwich. 100 inch
> pounds would be a good place to start.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Larry McFarland
>
> Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>>
>> I think this issue is getting way overblown. My personal guess is it
>> doesn't really matter how much torque is applied to these particular
>> bolts. If you just turn the wrench until the nuts seem tight then it
>> will probably be OK.
>>
>> I admit I am not really a qualified mechanical or aeronautical engineer.
>> This is just my best guess. It is also consistent with ZAC folks
>> basically saying they don't really know or care how much torque is used
>> for this application.
>>
>> Paul
>> XL wings
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm not being argumentative on this subject, I just want to be for sure
>>> how many inch pounds or foot pounds I should torque these particular
>>> AN4-15A bolts, being used in the center spar on a 601XL... There are 6
>>> of them... If the correct torque is 70 inch pounds, that's fine by me..
>>> I just want to know for sure that is the correct value and what I should
>>> be torquing to...
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
>
>Seems to me there was some confusion over which bolts. the six
>center bolts, as I think were originally inquired about, are AN4,
>while the 12 wing attachment bolts are AN5, no?
>-----
I suspect the choice of bolts (along with many other things) has
changed over the years. My plans dated mostly 05 use AN5
bolts. Perhaps the older plans call for AN4 bolts.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
Sounds good to me... This is my first aircraft project and I really didn't
know if torque of these particular bolts were 'critical'... That's why I
thought I'd ask if anyone could give me a definate number, if there was
one... If there is not, I'm Ok with that... If the correct answer is, just
tighten them "good en' tight" so they won't fall off, I can understand
that...
Sorry if I opened up a can of worms here, that was not my intention...
Thanks again,
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I think this issue is getting way overblown. My personal guess is it
> doesn't really matter how much torque is applied to these particular
> bolts. If you just turn the wrench until the nuts seem tight then it will
> probably be OK.
>
> My reasoning is a result of my analysis of the actual function of these
> bolts. It seems to me the primary function of the bolts is to prevent the
> wing spars from moving with respect to the center pass-thru structure. In
> this application the really important quality is the shear strength of the
> bolts rather than how tightly they are attached. The real load is
> completely in the shear direction. The only purpose of the nut is to keep
> the bolt in place so the strength of the bolt shaft can do its job.
>
> This application is quite different from the bolts that hold a cylinder
> head in place on an engine. In the cylinder head case it is important
> that the bolts are properly torqued so the force holding the head in place
> is evenly distributed. This prevents warping of the head.
>
> I admit I am not really a qualified mechanical or aeronautical engineer.
> This is just my best guess. It is also consistent with ZAC folks
> basically saying they don't really know or care how much torque is used
> for this application.
>
> Paul
> XL wings
> do not archive
>
>
>>I'm not being argumentative on this subject, I just want to be for sure
>>how many inch pounds or foot pounds I should torque these particular
>>AN4-15A bolts, being used in the center spar on a 601XL... There are 6 of
>>them... If the correct torque is 70 inch pounds, that's fine by me.. I
>>just want to know for sure that is the correct value and what I should be
>>torquing to...
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
My plans are 10/04 and they call for AN4 bolts in the center spar, and
AN5's for the wing attachment...
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
Seems to me there was some confusion over which bolts. the six
center bolts, as I think were originally inquired about, are AN4, while
the 12 wing attachment bolts are AN5, no?
-----
I suspect the choice of bolts (along with many other things) has
changed over the years. My plans dated mostly 05 use AN5 bolts.
Perhaps the older plans call for AN4 bolts.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Zinc Chromate |
It's what is easily available at the "corner store" (Canadian Tire), 2 minutes
drive from home.
Carlos
do not archive
----- Original Message ----
From: Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:28:31 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way"
Message Why not buy the zinc chromate in a can???
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
Yes, my 04/04 plans call out AN4's.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Bolt Torque Specs
Seems to me there was some confusion over which bolts. the six
center bolts, as I think were originally inquired about, are AN4, while
the 12 wing attachment bolts are AN5, no?
-----
I suspect the choice of bolts (along with many other things) has
changed over the years. My plans dated mostly 05 use AN5 bolts.
Perhaps the older plans call for AN4 bolts.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Compressors one last thought |
John,
Great advice and it makes sense. Thanks for the info. I'll use your advice
to keep my new compressor running properly.
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson@verizon.net
Do not archive
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs - See AC 43.13-1B |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Plozay" <dplozay@cox.net>
I hope this is useful:
Torque specifications for AN hardware are given in chapter 7 of FAA
publication "AC 43.13-1B Acceptable Methods, Techniques and Practices";
available for downloading at:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument
See table 7.1 (page 7) for AN bolt torque ranges.
Message 48
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Our local Crappy Tire has very limited inventory. we are lucky to have one
of some items in the weekly flyers. I'll be by there tomorrow and have a
look but I doubt they will have it.
so far down in the woods I come out to hunt!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate
It's what is easily available at the "corner store" (Canadian Tire), 2
minutes drive from home.
Carlos
do not archive
----- Original Message ----
From: Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:28:31 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate - "the dangerous way"
Why not buy the zinc chromate in a can???
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt Torque Specs |
Randy, you probably need to find out the torque for the two rear spar bolts
as well, don't you ? Say, aren't they a different size ? I can't say what's in
the mind of ZAC, but I know you can't get a tordue wrench on but a few of
these nuts anyway so I torqued what I could and tightened the rest about the same
? Wings still on ! Best of Luck, Bill of Georgia
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Raw Materials in South Africa |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles D" <charlesd1@telkomsa.net>
Hi Jonathan,
Martyn in Johannesburg is also considering a 701, and says he is able to get
Al of the correct grades from a supplier in Gauteng - he says to be specific
about asking for "Aircraft Grade" Aluminum. AN hardware also seems to only
be available from these sort of importers. ( not many of those in rural KZN
:( )
The cost and hastle-factor may very well result in the Kits being the better
option.
If you find any different, please let me know.
Regards, Charles.
Message 51
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com
Just wondering... again... When rest of us uses primer, what has it's
hardener
(phosphor or equilevant) separately and requires 50%/50% mixing with paint,
it wont last more than 8-24 hours. After that, this mix is ruined.
Partially from
contacting with air.
So, when you open spray can, all of butane etc. will flow out, and air will
go in.
What happens to primer?
Carlos Sa
<carlosfsa@yahoo.
com> Vastaanottaja
Lhettj: zenith-list@matronics.com
owner-zenith-list Kopio
-server@matronics
.com Aihe
Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate
14.06.2006 20:36
Vastausta
pyydetn
kyttjlle
zenith-list@matro
nics.com
A little tip I'd like to pass on:
I use zinc cromate (or some equivalent) in spray cans to prime parts.
I had read long ago in this list that somebody opens the spray can and
applies the primer with a sponge brush.
I tried it, and it works beautifully. No waste, no spraying things you
didn't mean to (like plants, the floor, the wall, the neighbor's SUV, the
cat's tail, etc.), no nasty stuff in your lungs (of course, the fumes from
the paint is still there, so a well ventilated room is essential - but your
lungs won't turn yellow).
One just needs to be very careful when opening the can... That first little
hole can make a mess...
Happy building
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Building aeroplanes since 1999. (still working on the first one)
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor Air Compressor |
William,
The measurements of the Husky VT6315 air Compressor is
23 in wheel to wheel, outside to outside
21 in front to rear of wheels
4 ft tall
Is that what you are looking for?
I feel it is a small footprint for the size of compressor. The pneumatic
tires are also great when moving over small bumps. (Sounds like I am a
commercial)
I agree with the other post. ALLWAYS drain the tank each evening after use.
I lost an old compressor due to tank rust 10 to 15 years ago.
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson@verizon.net
Do not archive
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