Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:33 AM - Re: LRI Question (norman)
2. 05:56 AM - Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie (Jim Pellien)
3. 06:17 AM - Re: LRI Question (Paul Mulwitz)
4. 06:42 AM - Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 06:42 AM - Re: Zenith Aircraft at Lockhaven (Jeff)
6. 07:17 AM - Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie (Jim Pellien)
7. 07:32 AM - Re: Lost canopy (Trevor Page)
8. 07:36 AM - Re: Lost canopy (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
9. 07:38 AM - Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie (Trevor Page)
10. 07:45 AM - Re: LRI Question (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
11. 07:54 AM - Tell me this is right... (Stephen R. Look)
12. 08:12 AM - Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie (Bill Naumuk)
13. 08:25 AM - Re: Tell me this is right... (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
14. 08:25 AM - Re: Lost Canopy (T. Graziano)
15. 09:00 AM - Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie (Edward Moody II)
16. 09:06 AM - Re: Tell me this is right... (Edward Moody II)
17. 09:42 AM - Canopy (John Anderson)
18. 11:44 AM - Re: Lost canopy (Bill Bartlett)
19. 01:42 PM - Re: Lost canopy (Craig Payne)
20. 02:44 PM - Re: Lost canopy (LarryMcFarland)
21. 04:12 PM - Re: Lost canopy (n282rs@earthlink.net)
22. 04:22 PM - Re: Lost canopy ()
23. 05:07 PM - Re: Lost canopy (Craig Payne)
24. 05:38 PM - Re: Zodiac 610XL Newbie (Wade Jones)
25. 05:46 PM - Re: Lost canopy (Bill Bartlett)
26. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: Lost Canopy (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
27. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: Lost Canopy (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
28. 06:50 PM - Re: Zenith Aircraft at Lockhaven (WAYNE BEATTIE)
29. 06:50 PM - Re: Lost canopy (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
30. 07:36 PM - Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie (Dave Thompson)
31. 07:39 PM - 801 Flaperons (Dave Ruddiman)
32. 09:14 PM - First post - test (Christopher Smith)
33. 09:30 PM - test (Christopher Smith)
34. 09:37 PM - Aluminum Order?? (John Hines)
35. 11:27 PM - Re: Aluminum Order?? (Tom and Bren Henderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Question |
Hello Bill,
Thank you for your reply, I have wing tanks fitted so I can not fit my
probe forward of the port baggage locker.
Just where about's does your probe mount in relation to the main wing
spar?
Cheers,
Norman
Message 2
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| Subject: | Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie |
Frank,
The Continental O-200 (100 hp) weighs 70 lbs more than the Rotax 912 ULS
(100 hp). This means you're useful load is decreased. With 30 gallons of
fuel onboard, the Continental-equipped 601XL has 340 lbs useful load, good
for a 170 lb passenger and a 170 lb pilot and no luggage. My 601XL with a
Rotax 912 engine has a useful load with full 30 gal fuel of 411 lbs. This
is a significant difference. Even if you are one of the lucky ones who
weigh 170 lbs or less, the resale market for the Rotax-equipped 601XL will
be broader-based because it can accommodate bigger pilots and passengers.
I'm selling my 2005 demonstrator 601XL SLSA (Rotax 912 100 hp) for $78,900
(regular price is $92K) in case you are interested. It only has 350 hours
on it. I'm buying a new demonstrator. I also have an 601XL ELSA (Rotax 912
100 hp) available for $68,900 with less than 250 hours.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Derfler
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 9:08 PM
Hello everyone. I'm "transitioning" from a much-loved Grumman Cheetah to a
Zodiac 601XL. (Yet to be purchased.) I'm painfully uninformed about some
issues that are probably as familiar to you all as your beloved "bolt
torque". (That's okay, you should see the Grumman folk talk for days on
their forum about the color of glue used in bonding the fuselage! Same
deal.)
Would anyone / everyone on this thread be so kind as to answer these
questions either on the forum or directly to me? ( fderfler@gmail.com_ )
1. Rotax versus Continental
a. I'm in the Florida Keys where dealers for Rotax-powered SeadDoos
are like fleas on a dog, but aviation service is like sex and old age.
(Infrequent or a distant memory) Does using Rotax power make sense in my
quasi-rural environment? Can the SeaDoo mechanics help in any way with an
engine in an experimental aircraft? (I told you I was uninformed!)
b. Are there any operational considerations between the similarly rated
Rotax and Continental engines (heating during climb, noise level, fuel
consumption at cruise, etc.)
c. Every Rotax I hear flying overhead sounds loud. Are they
necessarily noisy?
2. Zodiac 601XL Operations
a. I won't be able to hangar it. Do they survive being tied down on
the ramp in hot sun? (Any common high wind, delaminating, bonding, etc.
issues?)
b. Do the pilots survive under the bubble in a mile-long taxi out in
99+ ramp temps?
Thanks for your help! I look forward to hearing from you. Long live Bolt
Torque!
--
Frank Derfler
See my views and reviews at www.derfler.biz
See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Question |
Hi Norman,
I mounted my LRI probe on a removable plate aft of the main spar in
the bay outboard of the wing locker. This is near the same location
on the other wing where the pitot/static probe is mounted (which I
also put on a removable plate).
I used oval plates to mount both probes so I can wait until the wings
are firmly attached to the fuselage for solid mounting. This avoids
the problem I have heard some people have with broken probes while
moving the wings around. The plates are roughly similar to the
inspection plates near the aileron bellcrank and fuel finger strainer.
Good luck,
Paul
XL Fuselage
>Hello Bill,
>
>Thank you for your reply, I have wing tanks fitted so I can not fit
>my probe forward of the port baggage locker.
>Just where about's does your probe mount in relation to the main wing spar?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Norman
-
Message 4
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| Subject: | Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie |
Jim,
I agree with all you said.
Another approach is to use the standard 24 gallon fuel
arrangement. This gives an additional 36 pounds of useful
load. This can also be significant, and I feel the 24 gallons is
enough for my personal cross country endurance anyway.
I am still thinking of using the Jabiru 3300 for my plane. This has
similar weight to the Rotax but considerably more horsepower.
Paul
XL Fuselage
>Frank,
>
>The Continental O-200 (100 hp) weighs 70 lbs more than the Rotax 912
>ULS (100 hp). This means you're useful load is decreased. With 30
>gallons of fuel onboard, the Continental-equipped 601XL has 340 lbs
>useful load, good for a 170 lb passenger and a 170 lb pilot and no
>luggage. My 601XL with a Rotax 912 engine has a useful load with
>full 30 gal fuel of 411 lbs. This is a significant
>difference. Even if you are one of the lucky ones who weigh 170 lbs
>or less, the resale market for the Rotax-equipped 601XL will be
>broader-based because it can accommodate bigger pilots and passengers.
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Zenith Aircraft at Lockhaven |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson@earthlink.net>
I plan to try to attend on Wednesday. I'll be trying to find Wayne and his
plane. For bad weather, I'll try again on Saturday. I'll be wearing a
Zenith T Shirt. Will probably be driving in.
Jeff Davidson
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
zman601xl@verizon.net
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:24 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <zman601xl@verizon.net>
Awhile back there was some talk asking if anyone was going to the get
together at Lockhaven,Pa.I haven't heard any more about it.Anyone going?
Do Not Archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie |
Of course you can do this, but then you decrease your endurance by an
hour
and your unrefueled range by 130 miles.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Mulwitz
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 9:40 AM
Jim,
I agree with all you said.
Another approach is to use the standard 24 gallon fuel arrangement.
This
gives an additional 36 pounds of useful load. This can also be
significant,
and I feel the 24 gallons is enough for my personal cross country
endurance
anyway.
I am still thinking of using the Jabiru 3300 for my plane. This has
similar
weight to the Rotax but considerably more horsepower.
Paul
XL Fuselage
Frank,
The Continental O-200 (100 hp) weighs 70 lbs more than the Rotax 912 ULS
(100 hp). This means you=12re useful load is decreased. With 30
gallons of
fuel onboard, the Continental-equipped 601XL has 340 lbs useful load,
good
for a 170 lb passenger and a 170 lb pilot and no luggage. My 601XL with
a
Rotax 912 engine has a useful load with full 30 gal fuel of 411 lbs.
This
is a significant difference. Even if you are one of the lucky ones who
weigh 170 lbs or less, the resale market for the Rotax-equipped 601XL
will
be broader-based because it can accommodate bigger pilots and
passengers.
Message 7
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Sportstars had an AD on the canopy last year. Seems the latches had a
problem.
I've heard of several stories of the side opening canopy on HDs that
came off in flight so I decided early on to do the forward opening
one. But you must make sure that the canopy is firmly latched before
you fly otherwise it will lift. That curve is a HUGE wing.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Jun 18, 2006, at 12:33 AM, Craig Payne wrote:
> I was flying in the pattern with an instructor in an Evektor
> Sportstar when the canopy popped. It has a front-hinged bubble
> canopy much like the 601XL. One difference is that the rear quarter
> of the canopy is fixed. Anyway the instructor took the controls
> while I tried to close the canopy. Even with all my weight and both
> arms wrapped around the canopy's horizontal stiffener I could not
> pull it closed. So I just held it as closed as I could until we
> landed. My guess is that the curve generated a lot of lift.
>
> www.evektoramerica.com/sportstar.html
>
> -- Craig
>
Message 8
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John, we are all proud of you and happy everything ended safely, Best
regards, Bill of Georgia
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie |
Frank if I were to do it all over again and I had the $$ to spend on
a new engine it would be a Jab 3300 over the Rotax. The 912 is nice
but the complexity of the extra cooling system and dual carbs makes
it more difficult to troubleshoot if you have issues. The Jab is
simpler and aircooled and besides, the cowling for it is really nicer
looking... :) Rotax 912s are very quiet engines BTW.
The older Continental engines while easy to operate are much heavier
and will reduce your useful load. Old-timers will scoff at at newer
engines but their technology is stuck in the 40s and 50s.
Trev Page
C-IDUS 601HD R912
On Jun 16, 2006, at 9:07 PM, Frank Derfler wrote:
> Hello everyone. I'm "transitioning" from a much-loved Grumman
> Cheetah to a Zodiac 601XL. (Yet to be purchased.) I'm painfully
> uninformed about some issues that are probably as familiar to you
> all as your beloved "bolt torque". (That's okay, you should see
> the Grumman folk talk for days on their forum about the color of
> glue used in bonding the fuselage! Same deal.)
>
> Would anyone / everyone on this thread be so kind as to answer
> these questions either on the forum or directly to me?
> ( fderfler@gmail.com_ )
>
> Rotax versus Continental
> I'm in the Florida Keys where dealers for Rotax-powered SeadDoos
> are like fleas on a dog, but aviation service is like sex and old
> age. (Infrequent or a distant memory) Does using Rotax power
> make sense in my quasi-rural environment? Can the SeaDoo mechanics
> help in any way with an engine in an experimental aircraft? (I
> told you I was uninformed!)
> Are there any operational considerations between the similarly
> rated Rotax and Continental engines (heating during climb, noise
> level, fuel consumption at cruise, etc.)
> Every Rotax I hear flying overhead sounds loud. Are they
> necessarily noisy?
> Zodiac 601XL Operations
> I won't be able to hangar it. Do they survive being tied down on
> the ramp in hot sun? (Any common high wind, delaminating,
> bonding, etc. issues?)
> Do the pilots survive under the bubble in a mile-long taxi out in 99
> + ramp temps?
> Thanks for your help! I look forward to hearing from you. Long
> live Bolt Torque!
>
> --
> Frank Derfler
> See my views and reviews at www.derfler.biz
> See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: LRI Question |
Norman, I have the XL standard model with a 12 gallon tank in each wing. I
mounted the probe directly behind the main spar between the pitot probe and the
fuel tank vent. I have not test flown it yet so don't cut any holes on my say.
I'll post later after I know it works okay there. Best regards, Bill of
Georgia
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Tell me this is right... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" <slook@mchsi.com>
I'm working on the right flap and notice that the assembly "picture
book" does not show anything about a slot in the plastic piece on the
inboard rib. It has the plastic aligned different and only mentions a
hole. The drawing shows a slot and aligns the plastic part with the
horizontal of the rib. The drawing is newer and I built everything
that way. I'm just looking for confirmation since I can't call the
factory until tomorrow.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve Look
Monticello, IL
601XL / Corvair - working on wings
"Dogs have owners, Cats have staff"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie |
Paul-
XL FUSELAGE?? Congratulations.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@roxy.matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie
Jim,
I agree with all you said.
Another approach is to use the standard 24 gallon fuel arrangement.
This gives an additional 36 pounds of useful load. This can also be
significant, and I feel the 24 gallons is enough for my personal cross
country endurance anyway.
I am still thinking of using the Jabiru 3300 for my plane. This has
similar weight to the Rotax but considerably more horsepower.
Paul
XL Fuselage
Frank,
The Continental O-200 (100 hp) weighs 70 lbs more than the Rotax 912
ULS (100 hp). This means you're useful load is decreased. With 30
gallons of fuel onboard, the Continental-equipped 601XL has 340 lbs
useful load, good for a 170 lb passenger and a 170 lb pilot and no
luggage. My 601XL with a Rotax 912 engine has a useful load with full
30 gal fuel of 411 lbs. This is a significant difference. Even if you
are one of the lucky ones who weigh 170 lbs or less, the resale market
for the Rotax-equipped 601XL will be broader-based because it can
accommodate bigger pilots and passengers.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Tell me this is right... |
Hello Steve:
When in doubt - follow the drawings ! You did good - the slot is correct.
It allows for misalignment between the radius of the flap actuating arm pin
and the arc of the hole (now a slot) in the flap.
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved) working on wings
In a message dated 6/18/2006 10:54:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
slook@mchsi.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" <slook@mchsi.com>
I'm working on the right flap and notice that the assembly "picture
book" does not show anything about a slot in the plastic piece on the
inboard rib. It has the plastic aligned different and only mentions a
hole. The drawing shows a slot and aligns the plastic part with the
horizontal of the rib. The drawing is newer and I built everything
that way. I'm just looking for confirmation since I can't call the
factory until tomorrow.
Thanks,
Steve
Message 14
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For what it is worth.. below is excerpt what I put in my POH relative
to the canopy.
(Note: I do not believe the visual aid picture will come through on
Matronics, but it shows a slot in the side interior canopy rail skins
which permits access and visual to the canopy locking mechanisms)
Tony Graziano
601XL w/Jab3300A; N493TG; 111.1 hrs
A. CANOPY
1. Description
The main canopy is a clamshell bubble type that swivels forward to
open. It is supported by
air spring struts on each side of the frame when open. . The canopy
opening/locking mechanisms are on the canopy rail and the locking lugs
are on the fuselage cockpit rails. Opening from inside or outside the
cockpit may be done. The cockpit may be locked.
Note
Improper opening and especially closing of the canopy can cause serious
canopy damage. Personnel who may have a need to open/close the canopy
should be trained in its operation. This includes airport personnel who
may need to move the aircraft in an emergency. They should also be
trained in the proper procedure for moving the aircraft without damage.
2. Main Canopy Latches
The main canopy latch locking lugs are located on the
cockpit rails. The canopy latching mechanisms are integral with the
canopy rail. There are green stripes on the inside canopy frame sheet
metal in the vicinity of the latches that should be visually aligned
with a red stripe on the canopy internal latching mechanism to confirm
the canopy is fully locked. The slot used for the visual exam may also
be used to open the canopy by unlatching the mechanism with a key or
screwdriver. If preflight check reveals a slight misalignment of the
stripes, the ignition key or a small blade may be used to "align the
stripes" by pushing the latch into full lock. See photo CANOPY LOCKED -
VISUAL AID Below.
CANOPY LOCKED - VISUAL AID
3. Cockpit Ventilation During Ground Operations
The canopy should be closed completely when taxiing or anytime engine is
running. Open the air vents as required for ventilation.
4 Canopy Emergency Procedures
a. Canopy Opens In Flight - The usual cause of the
canopy opening in flight is the failure to latch the main canopy
latches. Based on high speed taxing, the canopy will probably open
approximately 4 inches and hopefully will not significantly affect the
flight characteristics of the aircraft at speed below 100 mph. There
will be probably be more drag and noise, but the aircraft hopefully can
be safely landed. This may be a safer procedure than attempting to
latch the canopy in flight. - Which may be impossible due to air loads
b. Canopy not fully latched in flight: The
latching mechanism has a safety detent, which if the canopy is not fully
latched will permit the canopy to have a gap. To fully close,
flight-testing reveals that it is possible to slow the aircraft down to
slow flight and push the canopy into full latch. Depending on
circumstances, it may be advisable to engage the autopilot before
attempting to fully close and lock the canopy.
c. Emergency Egress Procedures - In an off field
landing there is always the possibility that the canopy will be jammed
shut. If the aircraft comes to rest inverted, canopy opening is
probably not a factor. If the canopy will not open after an emergency
or other landing, moving the "red" striped latch of the latching
mechanism forward on both sides by use of a screwdriver, key or any
other blade type implement may open it. If the canopy cannot be opened
for an emergency, then use the emergency knife under the left hand side
of the right hand seat cushion or what ever is handy to break the
Plexiglas. As the canopy becomes more and more damaged it will break
out easier as stress risers get larger. Concentrate all hits in the
same area until the canopy breaks through, then work outward to enlarge
the hole.
5. Canopy Maintenance
-----------------
Time: 08:24:26 PM PST US
You did good John! Someone might get a good gps and flight bag for free.
I have wondered what would happen if the front hinged canopy would
unlatch. Does
anyone know if the curve of the canopy would cause it to lift and if so
how
far? jack- brought the zodie home to San luis CA today.
John Anderson <ande437@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hi,
I fly a 601HD. Yesterday at about 7:45AM I was at 5500 ft at cruise
speed in
smooth air, everything was fine. The next thing I was aware of I was in
a dive
at red line. My headphones and cap left along with the canopy. I always
wondered
how I would react in an emergencey. I am proud to say I was cool and did
all the right things. Leveled the wings, power back to idle and leveled
off at
eighty. I did not feel that I could go any slower because the rudder was
much
less effective than normal. I thought maybe it was damaged. I had to
hold back
pressure even after applying full up trim. Control response was poor.
Turbulence
inside the cockpit was moving my eyelids making it difficult to see. The
flight back to the airport (twenty minutes) seemed to take forever.
Suprisingly
I did not bend anything on landing.
I stopped at the maintenance hanger to asses the damage. Found my
headset hanging
on the step. Flight bag was gone as was a GPS 3 that was lying on the
seat.
Zero damage to the plane. Not a scratch.
In the past I had heard of canopies coming off but was not very
concerned.
I have many hours in open cockpits. THIS IS NOT THE SAME!!!! The plane
is unstable
without the canopy! I ordered the front opening canopy kit the same day.
I will not fly in a side opening canopy without saftey latches again.
CUL,
John Flying 601HD Lycoming 62Hrs
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie |
And the only time you have too much fuel on baord is when you are on
fire.
Ed
Do Not Archive
From: Jim Pellien
Of course you can do this, but then you decrease your endurance by an
hour and your unrefueled range by 130 miles.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Jim,
I agree with all you said.
Another approach is to use the standard 24 gallon fuel arrangement.
This gives an additional 36 pounds of useful load. This can also be
significant, and I feel the 24 gallons is enough for my personal cross
country endurance anyway.
I am still thinking of using the Jabiru 3300 for my plane. This has
similar weight to the Rotax but considerably more horsepower.
Paul
XL Fuselage
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Tell me this is right... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
You did it right. ALWAYS consider the drawings to be the final word. They've
been revised much more recently than the photo assembly guide. If the photo
guide and the drawings disagree, the drawing is the winner. If you can't
understand the drawing wait to talk to the factory before proceeding.
The slot was implemented to make it easier to fit the linkage later on.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen R. Look" <slook@mchsi.com>
>
> I'm working on the right flap and notice that the assembly "picture book"
> does not show anything about a slot in the plastic piece on the inboard
> rib. It has the plastic aligned different and only mentions a hole. The
> drawing shows a slot and aligns the plastic part with the horizontal of
> the rib. The drawing is newer and I built everything that way. I'm just
> looking for confirmation since I can't call the factory until tomorrow.
Message 17
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Good morning,
Thanks for all the replies to my canopy post. To answer a few of the
questions; Fresh annual by A&I. Curvature of latches checked on annual
as was spring tension and fastners. No failures noted of any component
on post accident inspection. Fortunately the incident occured over
Talledega National Forest. I think the lift created by the canopy must
be great because none of the canopy losses have resulted in rudder
damage as far as I know. Checking the closure of the latches on run up
was always part of pre-take off check list.
Cheers,
John
Message 18
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Yes, the canopy on the 601XL will open completely if it comes unlatched.
ALWAYS make sure your canopy is latched before take off. It should be on
you checklist. I have pictures of a friend flying his XL when the canopy
came open. I don't think he would mind if I sent you the picture. Just
contact me off line.
Bill Bartlett - 140BB 18.1 hours, Jabiru 3300, all electric, Blue
Mountain Lite, etc
bbartlett5@satx.rr.com
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Russell
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:24 PM
You did good John! Someone might get a good gps and flight bag for free.
I have wondered what would happen if the front hinged canopy would
unlatch. Does anyone know if the curve of the canopy would cause it to
lift and if so how far? jack- brought the zodie home to San luis CA
today.
John Anderson <ande437@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hi,
I fly a 601HD. Yesterday at about 7:45AM I was at 5500 ft at cruise
speed in smooth air, everything was fine. The next thing I was aware of
I was in a dive at red line. My headphones and cap left along with the
canopy. I always wondered how I would react in an emergencey. I am proud
to say I was cool and did all the right things. Leveled the wings, power
back to idle and leveled off at eighty. I did not feel that I could go
any slower because the rudder was much less effective than normal. I
thought maybe it was damaged. I had to hold back pressure even after
applying full up trim. Control response was poor. Turbulence inside the
cockpit was moving my eyelids making it difficult to see. The flight
back to the airport (twenty minutes) seemed to take forever. Suprisingly
I did not bend anything on landing.
I stopped at the maintenance hanger to asses the damage. Found my
headset hanging on the step. Flight bag was gone as was a GPS 3 that was
lying on the seat. Zero damage to the plane. Not a scratch.
In the past I had heard of canopies coming off but was not very
concerned. I have many hours in open cockpits. THIS IS NOT THE SAME!!!!
The plane is unstable without the canopy! I ordered the front opening
canopy kit the same day. I will not fly in a side opening canopy without
saftey latches again.
CUL,
John Flying 601HD Lycoming 62Hrs
Message 19
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I've contemplated adding some safety pins to backup the latches on the XL.
The only worry I have is someone outside being able to open the canopy if I
crash and am unconscious. I suppose part of the emergency landing check list
would be to remove the pins.
-- Craig
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Craig,
I've never had the canopy open after takeoff. Only failed to get a
latch secured before the fact
and that's probably the only kind of situation you'll have with the XL
forward tilt canopy.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Craig Payne wrote:
> I've contemplated adding some safety pins to backup the latches on the
> XL. The only worry I have is someone outside being able to open the
> canopy if I crash and am unconscious. I suppose part of the emergency
> landing check list would be to remove the pins.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
>
Message 21
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The attachment was larger than 10 bytes.
It was removed, but may be accessed at this URL:
http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/80adfc424afbe8d98b3a4aa000fa3f2f7556eca8.txt
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <paulrod36@msn.com>
Goodly done, John! If memory serves, about three years ago someone posted
a message that a guy (I think in Australia) got curious, and, after attaching
a safety chain, released his front-tilt canopy in flight. I think he reported
that it opened about 6 inches, but did not have much of an effect on flight control.
We may need to go through the archives on this.
PAul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Russell<mailto:clojan@sbcglobal.net>
To: zenith-list@roxy.matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@roxy.matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lost canopy
You did good John! Someone might get a good gps and flight bag for free.
I have wondered what would happen if the front hinged canopy would unlatch. Does
anyone know if the curve of the canopy would cause it to lift and if so how
far? jack- brought the zodie home to San luis CA today.
John Anderson <ande437@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hi,
I fly a 601HD. Yesterday at about 7:45AM I was at 5500 ft at cruise speed
in smooth air, everything was fine. The next thing I was aware of I was in a dive
at red line. My headphones and cap left along with the canopy. I always wondered
how I would react in an emergencey. I am proud to say I was cool and did
all the right things. Leveled the wings, power back to idle and leveled off
at eighty. I did not feel that I could go any slower because the rudder was much
less effective than normal. I thought maybe it was damaged. I had to hold back
pressure even after applying full up trim. Control response was poor. Turbulence
inside the cockpit was moving my eyelids making it difficult to see. The
flight back to the airport (twenty minutes) seemed to take forever. Suprisingly
I did not bend anything on landing.
I stopped at the maintenance hanger to asses the damage. Found my headset
hanging on the step. Flight bag was gone as was a GPS 3 that was lying on the
seat. Zero damage to the plane. Not a scratch.
In the past I had heard of canopies coming off but was not very concerned.
I have many hours in open cockpits. THIS IS NOT THE SAME!!!! The plane is
unstable without the canopy! I ordered the front opening canopy kit the same day.
I will not fly in a side opening canopy without saftey latches again.
CUL,
John Flying 601HD Lycoming 62Hrs
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Could you post the pictures to the list's file archive so they will be
available to all in the future?
http://www.matronics.com/enclosures.html/
-- Craig
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bartlett
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:40 PM
Yes, the canopy on the 601XL will open completely if it comes unlatched.
ALWAYS make sure your canopy is latched before take off. It should be on you
checklist. I have pictures of a friend flying his XL when the canopy came
open. I don't think he would mind if I sent you the picture. Just contact me
off line.
Bill Bartlett - 140BB 18.1 hours, Jabiru 3300, all electric, Blue Mountain
Lite, etc
bbartlett5@satx.rr.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac 610XL Newbie |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wade Jones" <waj@quik.com>
Hello Group ,I am new to the list .I am considering building the 601 LX .I bought
the plans last week so I am somewhat committed.I am not a first time builder
as I have built 3 Sonerais and the tail section & wings for a Mustang 11 .I
am an AP/IA active in aircraft inspections & repair (mostly tube & fabric) I
own and fly a Tripacer and Cont. 100hp Sonerai Off my private airstrip in South
Texas .Sorry for the long introduction .I have several questions to ask the
group ,If there is something negative about the 601XL that I should know please
write me off list.
1. Is the plane tough enough to fly off a grass strip .
2Would I be able to pick it up at the factory uncrated and load it into my 36'
fifth wheel RV
3 Even tho I live out off State ,would there still be no tax by me picking it up
at the factory
4 I am retired and my hanger is in my backyard .I can put many hours into the project
each week .What is a realistic time frame for the firewall back
5 Is the factory support good
6 Are most builders happy with the plane ,I need something to get me off high center
and either get the kit or forget about it as I am getting no younger (72)
.
Thank you for bearing with me and this long message ,and any and all comments
will be appreciated .Wade Jones
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Pellien
To: zenith-list@roxy.matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:50 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie
Frank,
The Continental O-200 (100 hp) weighs 70 lbs more than the Rotax 912 ULS (100
hp). This means you're useful load is decreased. With 30 gallons of fuel onboard,
the Continental-equipped 601XL has 340 lbs useful load, good for a 170
lb passenger and a 170 lb pilot and no luggage. My 601XL with a Rotax 912 engine
has a useful load with full 30 gal fuel of 411 lbs. This is a significant
difference. Even if you are one of the lucky ones who weigh 170 lbs or less,
the resale market for the Rotax-equipped 601XL will be broader-based because
it can accommodate bigger pilots and passengers.
I'm selling my 2005 demonstrator 601XL SLSA (Rotax 912 100 hp) for $78,900 (regular
price is $92K) in case you are interested. It only has 350 hours on it.
I'm buying a new demonstrator. I also have an 601XL ELSA (Rotax 912 100 hp)
available for $68,900 with less than 250 hours.
Jim
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Derfler
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 9:08 PM
To: zenith-list@roxy.matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie
Hello everyone. I'm "transitioning" from a much-loved Grumman Cheetah to a Zodiac
601XL. (Yet to be purchased.) I'm painfully uninformed about some issues
that are probably as familiar to you all as your beloved "bolt torque".
(That's okay, you should see the Grumman folk talk for days on their forum about
the color of glue used in bonding the fuselage! Same deal.)
Would anyone / everyone on this thread be so kind as to answer these questions
either on the forum or directly to me? ( fderfler@gmail.com_ )
1.. Rotax versus Continental
1.. I'm in the Florida Keys where dealers for Rotax-powered SeadDoos are
like fleas on a dog, but aviation service is like sex and old age. (Infrequent
or a distant memory) Does using Rotax power make sense in my quasi-rural
environment? Can the SeaDoo mechanics help in any way with an engine in an experimental
aircraft? (I told you I was uninformed!)
2.. Are there any operational considerations between the similarly rated
Rotax and Continental engines (heating during climb, noise level, fuel consumption
at cruise, etc.)
3.. Every Rotax I hear flying overhead sounds loud. Are they necessarily
noisy?
2.. Zodiac 601XL Operations
1.. I won't be able to hangar it. Do they survive being tied down on the
ramp in hot sun? (Any common high wind, delaminating, bonding, etc. issues?)
2.. Do the pilots survive under the bubble in a mile-long taxi out in 99+
ramp temps?
Thanks for your help! I look forward to hearing from you. Long live Bolt Torque!
--
Frank Derfler
See my views and reviews at www.derfler.biz
See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett" <bbartlett5@satx.rr.com>
Nope!
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:36 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
Could you post the pictures to the list's file archive so they will be
available to all in the future?
http://www.matronics.com/enclosures.html/
-- Craig
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Bartlett
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:40 PM
Yes, the canopy on the 601XL will open completely if it comes unlatched.
ALWAYS make sure your canopy is latched before take off. It should be on
you checklist. I have pictures of a friend flying his XL when the canopy
came open. I don't think he would mind if I sent you the picture. Just
contact me off line.
Bill Bartlett - 140BB 18.1 hours, Jabiru 3300, all electric, Blue
Mountain Lite, etc bbartlett5@satx.rr.com
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Message 27
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Tony, thanks for putting that picture on the thread. Really smart way to do
it and I will copy it, thanks again, Bill of Georgia
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith Aircraft at Lockhaven |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: WAYNE BEATTIE <waynebeattie@optonline.net>
Hi Zman
So far I have gotten no commitments besides Jeff who says he will likely be
driving in.
I plan on arriving on Wednesday and staying through Saturday camping with my
airplane.
We had 7 Zodiacs last year. It would be nice to see at least that many this
year. I still think I will try to get a sew parking spots allocated to
Zeniths, but I don't think I can hold them if no one indicates they will be
flying in besides me. Last year almost every parking spot on the fly-in side
of the field was taken, so I couldn't plan on holding the spots if no one
comes by Thursday.
I look forward to seeing anyone that might fly/drive in. It is a really fun
event even if your airplane isn't cub yellow.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:24 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <zman601xl@verizon.net>
>
> Awhile back there was some talk asking if anyone was going to the get
> together at Lockhaven,Pa.I haven't heard any more about it.Anyone going?
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
Message 29
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Paul, during my 40 hour test time I either missed it or bumped the latch knob
or something, but at about 900 feet on climb out the canopy started rising. I
grabbed the right side handle at about 6 inches and tried to pull it down to
latch, but could not fight the suction. I did have the feeling that at about 6
inches it did not lift any more, but it was very unstable. I even cut power
and pulled up into a stall to try to latch it, but still too much suck. (Dual
controls all the way, try that with a center yoke) I took the right seat belt
and passed it through the inside handle ( a metal screen door handle I added
on both sides) and pulled it down near to closed and landed. Our canopy's are
pretty strong when latched down, but are flimsy as tissue when freed. Best
regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Five Big Questions - Zodiac 610XL Newbie |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Thompson" <dave.thompson@verizon.net>
Frank,
As Craig said, make a visit to William Wynne's hanger (www.flycorvair.com
<http://www.flycorvair.com/> ). They are just outside Daytona Beach. Even if
you are not interested in a Corvair conversion, you are sure to have fun and
learn a lot. They are a group of the most down to earth airplane people you
could meet. They also have a great example of a 601XL taildragger. Who
knows, they might convert you to a Corvair :). They did me!
Good luck on your research,
Dave Thompson
dave.thompson@verizon.net
Do not archive
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
I am putting the end ribs in the center of the flaperons to join the halves together.
The ribs that are supplied don't even come close to the leading edge curve.
If I install them it will mash the curve out of shape. Has this happened
to anyone else. It looks like I will have to make new ribs that will fit. Both
sides have this same problem. I don't know how to bend sheet metal, but I guess
I will find out. Maybe I better buy the homebuilder help DVD.
Dave in Salem
Message 32
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| Subject: | First post - test |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Christopher Smith" <ch601xl@gmail.com>
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Christopher W. E. Smith
http://ch-601xl.com
Message 33
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Christopher Smith" <ch601xl@gmail.com>
test
do not archive
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
http://ch-601xl.com
Message 34
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| Subject: | Aluminum Order?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
I looked at the part layouts on ch601.org. Here are the quantities and
sizes I came up with. I already have my tail section complete from a
kit and I was hoping I didn't have to purchase as much aluminum. But
the tail parts are scattered throughout all the sheets and it looks like
I am stuck purchasing 26 sheets. Anyway, below are the quantities and
the prices from Aircraft Spruce. How much is shipping on an order like
this? Are these good prices?
Thickness Size Qnty Price Sub Total
0.016 144 x 48 1 $89.00 $89.00
0.020 144 x 48 2 $105.55 $211.10
0.020 96 x 48 1 $84.80 $84.80
0.025 144 x 48 13 $78.00 $1,014.00
0.025 96 x 48 2 $51.92 $103.84
0.032 144 x 48 2 $100.95 $201.90
0.040 144 x 48 1 $127.95 $127.95
0.063 48 x 24 1 $32.12 $32.12
0.090 24 x 24 1 $21.60 $21.60
0.125 24 x 24 1 $29.92 $29.92
0.1875 3.8 x 3.3 1 $0.00
Total Price $1,916.23
John
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines@craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs
of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you
have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message
contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named.
If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute
or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have
received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If
you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information
is strictly prohibited.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Order?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tom and Bren Henderson <admin@arachnidrobotics.com>
Wow, that's some pretty decent pricing John. I wouldn't hesitate to take
advantage of it, providing shipping isn't too bad. I found it cheaper to order
locally and forgo shipping costs. The local material seems to be of higher
quality (fewer scratches) and cost is equivalent to AS when shipping is factored
in. You'll be looking at delivery by truck if you bring all that material
in at once (the .025 sheet alone is 220 lbs total). I think it's a case of a
half-dozen of one or six of the other.
If you've already purchased your plans, you'll notice the fuselage is built
in several different 'stages'. You needn't purchase all your materials at once,
unless your wallet is so equipped. : ) Also, be very careful when pricing
some of the other materials on Aircraft Spruce. Items like the aluminum bar
stock and angle are MUCH cheaper through McMaster Carr (traditionally a fairly
spendy vendor). I would imagine them to be even cheaper through some of the
discount catalogs online.
One final note: Unless you cut and fabricate all the parts from a particular
sheet at the same time, you'll be buying more material than is listed on CH601.
If you're like the rest of us, you'll have your share of mis-cuts and remakes.
It's all part of the building process.
Happy building!
John Hines <John.Hines@craftontull.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by:
"John Hines"
I looked at the part layouts on ch601.org. Here are the quantities and
sizes I came up with. I already have my tail section complete from a
kit and I was hoping I didn't have to purchase as much aluminum. But
the tail parts are scattered throughout all the sheets and it looks like
I am stuck purchasing 26 sheets. Anyway, below are the quantities and
the prices from Aircraft Spruce. How much is shipping on an order like
this? Are these good prices?
Thickness Size Qnty Price Sub Total
0.016 144 x 48 1 $89.00 $89.00
0.020 144 x 48 2 $105.55 $211.10
0.020 96 x 48 1 $84.80 $84.80
0.025 144 x 48 13 $78.00 $1,014.00
0.025 96 x 48 2 $51.92 $103.84
0.032 144 x 48 2 $100.95 $201.90
0.040 144 x 48 1 $127.95 $127.95
0.063 48 x 24 1 $32.12 $32.12
0.090 24 x 24 1 $21.60 $21.60
0.125 24 x 24 1 $29.92 $29.92
0.1875 3.8 x 3.3 1 $0.00
Total Price $1,916.23
John
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines@craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
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