---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/21/06: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:06 AM - Re: Paint overspary (n801bh@netzero.com) 2. 03:06 AM - Re: Export to canada (Dave) 3. 03:10 AM - Re: Airplanes in trailers . . . did I miss something important? (Dave) 4. 05:12 AM - Re: fuel tank alternatives (Noel Loveys) 5. 05:14 AM - Re: Airplanes in trailers . . . did I miss something important? (Noel Loveys) 6. 05:35 AM - Re: One last reality check (Jimbo) 7. 06:20 AM - metal prop for 65 Cont. (John Bolding) 8. 06:35 AM - Re: Aluminum Order?? (Randy Bryant) 9. 06:58 AM - Re: Airplanes in trailers . . . did I miss something important? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 10. 08:34 AM - Re: fuel tank alternatives (Dave Ruddiman) 11. 09:07 AM - Re: More On Gas Cap () 12. 10:30 AM - 601 XL Wheel Pants (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 13. 10:30 AM - Re: 601XL Wheel Pants (Christopher Smith) 14. 11:16 AM - Re: Paint overspary (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?=) 15. 11:39 AM - Re: 601XL Wheel Pants (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 16. 12:06 PM - Re: Re: Zenith Aircraft at Lockhaven () 17. 02:32 PM - Re: Plastic fuel tanks (Thilo Kind) 18. 03:34 PM - Article (Bill Naumuk) 19. 03:39 PM - Re: Export to canada (Bryan Martin) 20. 03:54 PM - Re: More On Gas Cap (lynn dingfelder) 21. 03:56 PM - 701 or 801 door latches (Gary Liming) 22. 05:03 PM - good luck in you choice (Big Gee) 23. 05:08 PM - Re: Article (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 24. 06:50 PM - Engineering or Voodoo? (Michael Valentine) 25. 07:02 PM - Anyone with a Zenith for a possible trade?? (David Mikesell) 26. 07:40 PM - Re: Airplanes in trailers . . . did I miss something (JOHN STARN) 27. 09:14 PM - Reality check complete (Larry Winger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:08 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint overspary --> Zenith-List message posted by: "n801bh@netzero.com" I am pretty sure this will not work on a Zenith Aircraft. If the surface was smooth the polishing process would work but with the pulled rivets and the domed heads they have, the end result will be a bunch of shiny rivet heads and overspray still on the flat skin. Just my two cents worth.. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Larry" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry" I've been painting for 40 years plus and have had this problem many many times. There are several different things you can try. I've had them all work at different times, depending on what the overspray is and how long it's been on. First try a paint-prep you can get at an auto parts that handles paint, NAPA. Most of the time this works, you will have to wax afterwards. Put some on a small spot, let it stand, then rub it off. If that doesn't work, try a small spot with plain old rubbing compound, I've had luck with that too. Your last hope would be 1000/1500 grit wet sandpaper and buffing, . Now if the guy was spraying an epoxy or urethane, you could be fried, especially if it's been on for a while and if it's on fairly new paint. The overspray will kind of melt into uncured paint. I don't like the sanding, it's hard work and will most likely take the paint off the top of your rivets. Probably number one will work best, take it easy and take your time. Make you buddy do it, he should have known better. Larry, N1345L, www.skyhawg.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:29 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur? > > > Hello list members. > > I have a question about over spray. > A hangar "buddy" was spraying his cowling in the HANGAR, without realizing > that the spray would get in the air and flow over all the other planes in > the hangar. duh. You will notice that I am not a happy camper. > I had just completed building my Zenith 701 with an expensive paintwork. > Now I have a white rough coat on all the top surfaces on my newly painted > plane. > I have used white spirit, "goo gone" and waxed with carnauba car wax with > no result. There is a shine in the paint, but when you stroke the surface, > you will find the like sandy surface instead of the smooth surface feel. > > Does anyone have a solution or know of a material for this, other than > polishing compound. > I would like to eliminate scratching the fresh paint until it gets old and > beat up. > > I appreciate any help. > > Best wishes. > Johann G. > Iceland. > Joeing 701 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:33 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Export to canada --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:16 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Just put it on a flatbed and haul it...As long as its strapped down its > just fine. > > Frank > Thought of that, can't rent a flatbed at all. I even asked at a used dealer about "buying" and returning it after when he wouldn't rent. He figured he could do that, it would only lose me about $3000 plus taxes (15%) on an $18000 truck. I'm pretty sure I will eventually find a way this could've been done. But so far the only way that plane could have got here at any reasonable price would have been to fly it. I simply don't have the experience to fly it here, through foriegn controlled airspace, and the owner couldn't. Somebody would have but I didn't meet him. I bought a Kitfox locally. When I have some experience travelling, these types of trips should be easy. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:55 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airplanes in trailers . . . did I miss something important? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:31 AM important? > I can't help but wondering why anyone would take a perfectly good cross > country airplane and put in a trailer to deliver it some distance away. > > Why not fly it there? > Hi Paul, in my case it was simply inexperience, perhaps I am overly cautious. My only flying experience is the Cessna 152 that I learned in, plus a couple of hours in a 172 and short flights in the right seat of a few other planes where I fiddled with the controls a little. Travelling across four provinces in airspace partially controlled by a foriegn country in an unfamilar aircraft over some pretty rough terrain is a bit of a leap for me. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:55 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: fuel tank alternatives --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" As long as the tank is covered and not out in the blowing wind static electricity shouldn't be a problem. It requires a rubbing action to develop static electricity. If the tank is inside a wing and secured properly then there is nothing to rub against it and develop the static charge. A plus for the injection moulded fuel tanks is they are impervious to the ethanol now contaminating a lot of the fuel supply. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Christopher Smith > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:28 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel tank alternatives > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Christopher Smith" > > > With plastic that is. Rubber would be fine. > > On 6/20/06, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > > Too many static electricity issues. > > > > > > On 6/20/06, Dave and Jan Clay wrote: > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" < > > > dclaytx2@hotmail.com> > > > > > > I just finished mowing my yard. While mowing I was > contemplating the > > > 601xl > > > fuel tank issue. I noticed my red plastic 5 gallon gas > can I've had for > > > many > > > years. It is still in perfect condition and has never > sprung a leak > > > despite > > > much abuse. After reading all of the horror stories posted here of > > > welding > > > dificulties, messy Pro Seal, and random leaks I was > wondering if anyone > > > has > > > tried plastic fuel tanks or rubber fuel cells. I've seen > ads in aviation > > > magazines for companies that make custom made fuel cells. > How about it. > > > Anyone ever tried something other than aluminum? > > > > > > Dave > > > Temple, TX > > > scratch building wings > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Christopher W. E. Smith > > http://ch-601xl.com > > > > > > -- > Christopher W. E. Smith > http://ch-601xl.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:23 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Airplanes in trailers . . . did I miss something important? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" In my case I live some distance from the nearest strip or airport. Most of the year I'm a die hard float flyer. In the winter I put the wheels on. That means to fly I have to trailer the plane to the nearest strip or airport to fly. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Paul Mulwitz > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 2:01 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Airplanes in trailers . . . did I miss > something important? > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > > I can't help but wondering why anyone would take a perfectly good > cross country airplane and put in a trailer to deliver it > some distance away. > > Why not fly it there? > > Apparently there are good reasons not to fly the plane. There seem > to be lots of people and lots of different planes going through this > experience. > > Still, I have to wonder. If someone wants a plane but is unwilling > to fly it home then what, exactly, do they plane to do with the plane > when they get it there? > > Paul > XL Fuselage > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:07 AM PST US From: Jimbo Subject: RE: Zenith-List: One last reality check --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo The airplane does actually exist. I got to fly it at Golden West. Jim --- Craig Payne wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" > > > Here is a little more information on the 601XL > instructor in SoCal: > > Jon Thornburgh > > Jon@JonThornburgh.com > Cell Phone 800-971-8710 > > http://www.lasportplanes.com/13132.html > > Warning: in my search for instruction in a 601XL I > have found that many > schools are planning or advertising instruction in a > 601XL but do not > actually have a plane yet. The only confirmed plane > that I know of is Jim > Pellien's at Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes in Virginia. > I would love to hear of > other confirmed sightings. > > -- Craig > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:32 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: metal prop for 65 Cont. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Bolding" A few days back someone needed a metal prop for his 65 Cont. contact me off list, I have an extra off my Champ. John ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:12 AM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aluminum Order?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Thanks Paul, I laid the flaps and ailerons out on the table yesterday and aligned their trailing edges and did some "guesstimating" and measuring and I agree, I think there will be enough material...but just enough... Thanks, Randy Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 1:22 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > Hi Randy, > > The drawings are NOT TO SCALE. That is emphasized many places in the > drawing package. > > On my drawings (sheet 6W2 dated 12/04) the hinge size is set by the bottom > left corner of the drawing. It shows a minimum 45 mm length. That means > your aileron should be just fine. > > Paul > XL Fuselage > do not archive > > At 09:26 AM 6/19/2006, you wrote: >> I ended up with 45mm on the tip and 50mm on the root, hanging over for >> the flex hinge... I can only hope this will be enough material... >> Assuming the drawings are to scale, > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:37 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Airplanes in trailers . . . did I miss something important? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Three reasons... 1) Weather...In western Oregon there are some mountains to get over (and the Rockies) and to guarantee good weather for 2000 miles in any direction is unlikely...Not if you don't have time to be stuck somewhere. 2)To get a flying airplane across the border into Canada that you are buying is apparently very difficult. 3) Depends on how confident you are with the transition traning you got....A Zodiac is a very easy airplane to fly with little training...An RV or Lanceair is very different and the insurance company will almost certainly require a signoff by a CFI in the make and model. Frank -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:31 PM important? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz --> I can't help but wondering why anyone would take a perfectly good cross country airplane and put in a trailer to deliver it some distance away. Why not fly it there? Apparently there are good reasons not to fly the plane. There seem to be lots of people and lots of different planes going through this experience. Still, I have to wonder. If someone wants a plane but is unwilling to fly it home then what, exactly, do they plane to do with the plane when they get it there? Paul XL Fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:25 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel tank alternatives --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" I was in the group that built 14 Neuport biplane replicas in Oregon. They were all scratch built. For fuel tanks we used red plastic tanks like you would use in a boat. I think they held 12 gallons but don't know for sure. They were secured in the cowl with 2 metal bands. They tanks that were in the plans were welded aluminum that all had to be fabricated. We built one and decided that the plastic ones not only fit well, but were a lot cheaper and already made. The tanks come in several shapes and sizes. Dave in Salem ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:07 AM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > As long as the tank is covered and not out in the blowing wind static > electricity shouldn't be a problem. It requires a rubbing action to > develop > static electricity. If the tank is inside a wing and secured properly > then > there is nothing to rub against it and develop the static charge. A plus > for the injection moulded fuel tanks is they are impervious to the ethanol > now contaminating a lot of the fuel supply. > > Noel > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Christopher Smith >> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:28 PM >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel tank alternatives >> >> >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Christopher Smith" >> >> >> With plastic that is. Rubber would be fine. >> >> On 6/20/06, Christopher Smith wrote: >> > >> > Too many static electricity issues. >> > >> > >> > On 6/20/06, Dave and Jan Clay wrote: >> > > >> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" < >> > > dclaytx2@hotmail.com> >> > > >> > > I just finished mowing my yard. While mowing I was >> contemplating the >> > > 601xl >> > > fuel tank issue. I noticed my red plastic 5 gallon gas >> can I've had for >> > > many >> > > years. It is still in perfect condition and has never >> sprung a leak >> > > despite >> > > much abuse. After reading all of the horror stories posted here of >> > > welding >> > > dificulties, messy Pro Seal, and random leaks I was >> wondering if anyone >> > > has >> > > tried plastic fuel tanks or rubber fuel cells. I've seen >> ads in aviation >> > > magazines for companies that make custom made fuel cells. >> How about it. >> > > Anyone ever tried something other than aluminum? >> > > >> > > Dave >> > > Temple, TX >> > > scratch building wings >> > > >> > > _________________________________________________________________ >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Christopher W. E. Smith >> > http://ch-601xl.com >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Christopher W. E. Smith >> http://ch-601xl.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:34 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More On Gas Cap --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michael, I think you are right about the flange sticking up a lot but I still don't think it's un-shimable. First however, check to make sure that the filler is screwing all the way down into the welded collar as far as it can. It looks to me like the welders use some sort of compound to block out threads during the welding process and it can be a real bear to remove. Maybe some of your threads are still obstructed by the stuff. If that's the case. some careful solvent and wire brush action might save the day. Next, once you are sure that it cannot possibly screw down any farther, I believe that if you just experiment a bit with cork or even a carefully and artfully shaped wood "donut" under the skin, around the welded collar, you might be surprised by how much improvement you could acheive. Regarding the "beating the flange down into the tank" suggestion, my guess is he meant actually bending the top of the tank inward around the filler flange. If that part of the tank is dented inward carrying the welded collar downward with it, the surface flange would end up lower too, possibly making contact with the skin. That being said, bending the tank risks cracks and leaks. Good luck, Ed ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:04 AM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 601 XL Wheel Pants --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Thread Friends, I have a set of wheel pants for a XL already trimmed to fit, painted white, with access caps built in to air up the tires without removal that I don't need anymore. Anybody interested contact me off thread. The searing wheel pant will fit over the doubler fork option and all are in good shape, Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:05 AM PST US From: "Christopher Smith" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wheel Pants --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Christopher Smith" ZAC has pictures up on the website of the new wheelpants. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/wheelfairing.html On 6/20/06, JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com > > Dear Thread Friends, I understand that ZAC is going to adopt a different > wheel pants for the XL that is the same as the AMD pants. I really don't > like the > old "wide body" ZAC pants I have now. Anybody out there using the AMD > models > after using the old ZAC pants ? Was there any speed increase. To tell the > truth > I didn't notice much difference with or without pants, but I am willing to > learn. Best regards, Bill of Georgia > > -- Christopher W. E. Smith fly1m1 http://ch-601xl.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:45 AM PST US From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint overspary --> Zenith-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3hann_Gestur?= Hello. Thank you all who responded to my inquire about the paint over spray. Ed, your recommendations are all great, but he is still a "buddy" event though he forgot to think. Could not do that to the guy.:-) Frank, Yes I have heard about this clay but never imagined it could work on my plane. I think I will look more into that solution. Larry McFarland, I did not want to polish or sand the thin surface too much, unless I absolutely have too. Also too much work. Rich, I do not dare use too abrasive thinner on the paint. I used the White Spirit which did not do anything. The large surfaces would take too long to work this way, and I would never trust the "buddy" to touch my plane, ever. He has done enough. I will try the clay method as suggested by Frank and will let you all know, in case you have a "buddy" like I have, in your hangar. Thank you again, Regards, Johann G. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:09 AM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wheel Pants --> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com Yes...I LIKE the looks of those fairings. I was never crazy about the old ones. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:40 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith Aircraft at Lockhaven --> Zenith-List message posted by: --> Zenith-List message posted by: WAYNE BEATTIE Hi Zman So far I have gotten no commitments besides Jeff who says he will likely be driving in. I plan on arriving on Wednesday and staying through Saturday camping with my airplane. We had 7 Zodiacs last year. It would be nice to see at least that many this year. I still think I will try to get a sew parking spots allocated to Zeniths, but I don't think I can hold them if no one indicates they will be flying in besides me. Last year almost every parking spot on the fly-in side of the field was taken, so I couldn't plan on holding the spots if no one comes by Thursday. I look forward to seeing anyone that might fly/drive in. It is a really fun event even if your airplane isn't cub yellow. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:24 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > Awhile back there was some talk asking if anyone was going to the get > together at Lockhaven,Pa.I haven't heard any more about it.Anyone going? > > Do Not Archive > > >Wayne, Thanks for the reply.I live in Niagara Falls,Ny.It would be about a 4 hr drive and well worth it if there were some 601s at Lockhaven.Would be good to compare notes. Do Not Archive Bob > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:05 PM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Plastic fuel tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi Zed, blow molding is a process not suitable for a homebuilder. You will need a blow molding machine consisting of an extruder and a proper die arrangement. The extruder melts and conveys the plastic resin through a ring die, thus creating a hose. This hose is then pinchedat both end by the two halves of the mold. Air is blown into the hose, expanding the still molten plastic resin into the mold. The machine is a serious piece of equipment. In addition, you will need the mold, which is also very expensive. To top that, a fuel tank is a multi-layer product. The wall of the tank consists of multiple layers of plastic. Each of the layer has a certain funtion such as mechanical support, electro-static discharge, fuel barrier, etc. Due to the cost of the machine you will need to produce at least 20 to 30 tanks per hour in order to have a feasible business case. Rotor-molding is probably a more suitable procedure for the homebuilder industry. This process allows production of small lots of tanks. Happy building Thilo Kind ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:44 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith > > Dave!! > > Great question....I have also wondered. Inquiring minds, etc > > The firms that make containers such as you mention are many....problem is, how does one assault the problem. > > Some years ago I observed a rather large plant in Lincoln, Nebraska, that made all sorts of "plastic" tanks for farm & ranch use, chemical containers, barrels for acids, and so forth. This isn't the only manufacturer, but your post jogged my memory. Must be dozens of places doing custom work for all sorts of applications. > > Surely there is a Lister familiar with the process and materials. > > In the case of the 701, a tank of the approximate same dimensions, even if it only held nine gallons, might be nearly a stock item at one of these firms. Since it would be molded it would likely have rounded corners, and possibly the wall thickness might be optional. > > Lots of the larger lawnmowers use non-metalic fuel tanks, likewise construction machinery, welders, pumps, and somebody is making these tanks for the machinery manufacturer. > > Not sure what 'blow molding' involves, but it can't be rocket science.....the mold itself might be the determining factor as to cheap tanks. > > Somebody jump on this one......or start selling tanks. Another franchise opportunity. You want cheese wit dat? > > I'll be out a few days, can you come by and mow my yard? Feed the hangar cat while you're there. > > do not archive > > Regards, > > Zed > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:31 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: Article --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" All- Seems Sport Aviation is interested in seeing a rough draft of an article several listers (Offline) suggested I write. I've maintained (To my offlist friends) that building is as much psychological as mechanical, and that we all depend on our builder's list as a crutch to get us through hard times. Take a look through the latest posts if you don't accept my premise. We ALL do it, but the protocol and benefits haven't yet been brought to light for all the budding builders out there. I can personally say that if not for the moral support of my list friends over the years, you'd be drinking beer out of my stabilizer! Bottom line is, I'll need 25 answers to a standardized questionnaire for anything to be statistically significant. Problem is, I don't know all the significant questions to put on the questionnaire, and I don't have 25 respondents. Considering post input from people who have built aircraft other than Zenith, I think the way we all react is universal rather than type specific. That's probably why SA is interested. Contact me off-list if you're interested in putting together the questionnaire or completing one. Good building. Bill ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:02 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Export to canada --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin I transported my airplane in a 24 foot cargo trailer. I had to take the main wheels and axles off and attach a couple of tool box wheels mounted to angle iron on the inside of the main gear springs in order to fit between the wheel wells of the trailer. I don't know where you could rent one of these trailers but you could probably buy one and then sell it after the move and get most of your money back. I paid $4,500 for mine new. If you know someone in the landscaping business you might be able to make some kind of deal, they often have this type of trailer to haul their equipment around in. You might also rent a large U-haul truck for a one way trip and it would cost you about a dollar a mile. On Jun 21, 2006, at 6:00 AM, Dave wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" > > > ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:16 PM > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >> (Corvallis)" >> >> Just put it on a flatbed and haul it...As long as its strapped >> down its >> just fine. >> >> Frank >> > > Thought of that, can't rent a flatbed at all. I even asked at a > used dealer about "buying" and returning it after when he wouldn't > rent. He figured he could do that, it would only lose me about > $3000 plus taxes (15%) on an $18000 truck. I'm pretty sure I will > eventually find a way this could've been done. But so far the only > way that plane could have got here at any reasonable price would > have been to fly it. I simply don't have the experience to fly it > here, through foriegn controlled airspace, and the owner couldn't. > Somebody would have but I didn't meet him. I bought a Kitfox > locally. When I have some experience travelling, these types of > trips should be easy. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:33 PM PST US From: "lynn dingfelder" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More On Gas Cap --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lynn dingfelder" Michael, What I did was to recess the welded on collar further by bending the surrounding tank inward a bit, more on the highest side to achieve alignment. It may sound crude, but that grade of aluminum is very malleable, and cracking is not a problem. This is the only way I could see to gain near enough drop for the filler ring to meet the skin. Shimming under the skin would create a huge distortion in the skin around the filler, and I don't think it could even be done. Lynn Corry, PA ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:00 PM PST US From: Gary Liming Subject: Zenith-List: 701 or 801 door latches --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming Has anyone used or designed a better latch (more positive locking) to support the doors against the wing when held open? I know about using a small bolt to squeeze the nylon latch from the kit (doesn't always work,) as well as Vince Butner's mod to support the doors with gas operated struts (taken from a small Ford hatchback, I think. - too heavy and they get in the way sometimes) I am just looking for something simple and light that will positively prevent them from falling at an inopportune time. TIA, Gary L. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:27 PM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Zenith-List: good luck in you choice --> Zenith-List message posted by: Big Gee Larry-- enjoyed chatting--- feel free to drop a line anytime. Best of luck in your choice--- I sold my scratch built 701 so as to scratch. build the 601XL, that shows how much I like this plane. Fritz-- Corvair--plans only 90/90 Larry Winger wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Winger" Fritz, In looking at the Zenith DVD, it sure looked like Chris was fairly tall. That's probably good news for guys like me. My great hope is that I'll fit under the bubble canopy just fine. If not, I may be contacting you for more info on your modification. Thanks, Larry __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:57 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Article --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Bill, I would be happy to assist you by answering the 25 questions, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:46 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Zenith-List: Engineering or Voodoo? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" Listers - need some help again - on the Landing Lights. The acrylic shield is approx. 280mm wide. The opening is 235mm wide. The guide says slide it toward the rib and then slide it back toward the riblet. I'm 95% sure that it is not physically possible to do with the lens unit installed. Do I not understand physics or do I lack Voodoo powers? Also, related question - the shield is not quite flush with the nose curve. Any reason I can't heat it a bit to make it fit? Please inform... Thanks, Michael Valentine ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:04 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Zenith-List: Anyone with a Zenith for a possible trade?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" Just by chance anyone out there has a Zenith project that might consider a trade? I have a BD4 (4 passenger 180mph cruise) project that I have been working on slowly over the years that I would use for this trade. The fuselage is on gear and mostly done, it just needs instruments and a engine. The original wing kit has been prosealed and ready to assemble. The vertical, rudder, stabilator is complete. I have pictures available for interested parties. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:19 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Airplanes in trailers . . . did I miss something --> Zenith-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" A 60 mph airplane (most WWI replicas) & a 35 kts. wind, an event 150 airmiles away, headwind either getting there or coming home. Vot ya never "flew" Champ before ?. KABONG Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:31 PM important? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > > I can't help but wondering why anyone would take a perfectly good cross > country airplane and put in a trailer to deliver it some distance away. > > Why not fly it there? > > Apparently there are good reasons not to fly the plane. There seem to be > lots of people and lots of different planes going through this experience. > > Still, I have to wonder. If someone wants a plane but is unwilling to fly > it home then what, exactly, do they plane to do with the plane when they > get it there? > > Paul > XL Fuselage > do not archive > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:18 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Zenith-List: Reality check complete --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Winger" Wow. What a great list you have! Since posting my initial request for help on Monday, I have received 9 posts on the list and at least as many direct to my email address. With the help of the group I was able to accomplish my first essential goal. I am the 6'6" pre-builder in the LA area who needed to sit in a 601XL to see if I fit. Three different people pointed me to LA Sport Planes and that got me to Jon Thornburgh who is not only a CFI for Light Sport Aircraft but also an Examiner. Great guy. To make a long story short, I not only got to sit in the plane, but logged nearly an hour flying local around the South Bay area of LA -- soaking in the incredible views through the bubble canopy. What a difference from my Cessna training experiences. The real treat was that this plane is N2601, the only IFR-equipped SLSA in the nation according to Jon. I don't have to tell you about the handling characteristics, but suffice it to say I had great fun. For the record, the headroom was simply not even an issue. I had at least two inches to spare above my headset. The depth of the instrument panel was also not an issue, as my knees never made contact. The only compromise was the angle of my legs when on the rudders. I could use another inch or two of extension. A call to the factory this afternoon has me convinced that I can fix that as well, either through rudder placement on the floor *or* the angle of the rudder supports coming up from the floor (non-technical language from one who has not yet seen the plans). I was able to fly it without modifications. Give me two additional inches (or more!) and I'm really set. Until I see the plans for the forward position of the rudders, I won't know if I was flying the standard or forward rudder configuration. From the firewall back to the center of the horizontal tube on the floor, the distance was approximately 8.75 inches. If that is the standard position, I'm in great shape. If it is the forward position, it just means I'll have to work with the factory (and some of you) to get creative. Again, my thanks to everyone who responded to my request for help. I don't think it will be long before you'll see me as a regular poster with plans in hand. Larry Winger N53VP reserved William Wynne manual in hand Nearly ready to write my check for plans