---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/23/06: 61 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:25 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 2. 05:20 AM - hoarding Corvairs (John Bolding) 3. 06:29 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (LarryMcFarland) 4. 06:34 AM - Sad day...Kind of (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 5. 06:48 AM - Re: Sad day...Kind of (crvsecretary@aol.com) 6. 07:33 AM - Re: Sad day...Kind of (Trainnut01@aol.com) 7. 07:41 AM - Re: Sad day...Kind of (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 8. 07:48 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 9. 08:05 AM - Re: Sad day...Kind of (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 10. 08:47 AM - Cheap metal bending brake that works (Dave and Jan Clay) 11. 09:29 AM - Re: Jab 3300 Oil (lgingell) 12. 10:42 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (Larry Landucci) 13. 10:49 AM - Alodine Removal from Skins (messydeer) 14. 12:04 PM - Re: Cheap metal bending brake that works (David Mikesell) 15. 12:04 PM - EGT Question (LHusky@aol.com) 16. 12:36 PM - Re: Alodine Removal from Skins () 17. 01:28 PM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (Christopher Smith) 18. 01:37 PM - Re: EGT Question (Big Gee) 19. 02:13 PM - Firewall (kevinbonds@comcast.net) 20. 02:14 PM - Composite gear (kevinbonds@comcast.net) 21. 02:16 PM - Alodine Question (kevinbonds@comcast.net) 22. 02:24 PM - Re: EGT Question (Rick Lindstrom) 23. 02:26 PM - scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank (kevinbonds@comcast.net) 24. 02:38 PM - Re: Cheap metal bending brake that works (Hudsonmusic1@aol.com) 25. 03:46 PM - Re: Alodine Removal from Skins (messydeer) 26. 03:57 PM - Re: Cheap metal bending brake that works (Bill Bartlett) 27. 04:27 PM - Gettinnterested in the corvair (Hudsonmusic1@aol.com) 28. 04:36 PM - Top skin material substitution (Tom and Bren Henderson) 29. 04:38 PM - Re: Gettinnterested in the corvair (Tom and Bren Henderson) 30. 04:46 PM - Re: Cheap metal bending brake that works (David Mikesell) 31. 04:48 PM - Re: EGT Question (Phil Maxson) 32. 04:54 PM - Re: Gettinnterested in the corvair (Phil Maxson) 33. 04:57 PM - Re: Gettinnterested in the corvair (Craig Payne) 34. 04:59 PM - Re: Subject: 601XL Wheel Pants (Dave VanLanen) 35. 05:01 PM - On the roll (Bill Naumuk) 36. 05:02 PM - Re: Cheap metal bending brake that works (L. Kilburg) 37. 05:02 PM - Re: Gettinnterested in the corvair (Craig Payne) 38. 05:14 PM - Re: MASPL Demonstrator Aircraft For Sale - Save over $12,000 (Jim Pellien) 39. 05:26 PM - Re: Firewall (Long) (Gary Gower) 40. 05:59 PM - Re: More On Gas Cap (Robin Bellach) 41. 06:15 PM - Re: 601XL Wheel Pants Con't (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 42. 06:26 PM - Deep trouble!! (jsimons2) 43. 06:26 PM - Re: Finished with empanage ! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 44. 06:43 PM - Re: Deep trouble!! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 45. 06:45 PM - Re: Alodine Question (messydeer) 46. 06:48 PM - Re: Deep trouble!! (Randy Bryant) 47. 06:53 PM - Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank (Big Gee) 48. 07:16 PM - Re: Deep trouble!! (Paul Mulwitz) 49. 07:16 PM - Re: Deep trouble!! (Gary Boothe) 50. 07:52 PM - Re: Deep trouble!! (Randy Bryant) 51. 08:05 PM - 601/ Stratus Engine Mount (George Swinford) 52. 08:31 PM - Re: Deep trouble!! for you jsimons (ROBERT SCEPPA) 53. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Alodine Question (kevinbonds) 54. 08:55 PM - Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank (kevinbonds) 55. 08:56 PM - Rivets: Update on where to buy (norriedh) 56. 09:04 PM - Re: Deep trouble!! (Steve Hulland) 57. 09:36 PM - Re: Rivets: Update on where to buy (David Mikesell) 58. 10:24 PM - Re: Alodine Question (messydeer) 59. 10:44 PM - Re: Deep trouble!! (Gary Gower) 60. 11:34 PM - Re: . Fuel gauge issue.. (n801bh@netzero.com) 61. 11:54 PM - Re: Deep trouble!! (LHusky@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:12 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines In a message dated 6/23/2006 4:58:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pacificpainting@comcast.net writes: I would also agree that the Subaru conversion guys have gotten way out of line...when you can buy a stock Subaru engine brand new for 3,500.00 where is all this extra cost coming from? I remember when they first came out they were like 10 grand then every time I talked to them they upped the price. As far as I'm concerned the corvair conversion is the way to go for LSA. But just like all things that make this affordable someone will try and snatch up all the engines they can then resell them for an arm and a leg. Jeff ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:44 AM PST US From: "John Bolding" Subject: Zenith-List: hoarding Corvairs ----- . As far as I'm concerned the corvair conversion is the way to go for LSA. But just like all things that make this affordable someone will try and snatch up all the engines they can then resell them for an arm and a leg. Jeff Yeah, would'nt you know it,that nasty thing called capitalism rears it head again. LOW&SLOW John ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:00 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Hi Guys, As a Stratus Subaru owner, I couldn't agree more. The Lycs are just too expensive to consider, but there are more engines coming on line that are in the 100 to 120 hp arena. I've been reading about the R3000 from Revmaster which is completely new, not VW in Contact Magazine and it's 110 hp will be available at less than $10K. For the 601 builders, auto conversions are a way to go, not just another compromise. http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/under_development/index.htm Lycoming prices will just bring these developments about quicker Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/23/2006 4:58:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > pacificpainting@comcast.net writes: > > I would also agree that the Subaru conversion guys have gotten way > out of line...when you can buy a stock Subaru engine brand new for > 3,500.00 where is all this extra cost coming from? I remember when > they first came out they were like 10 grand then every time I > talked to them they upped the price. As far as I'm concerned the > corvair conversion is the way to go for LSA. But just like all > things that make this affordable someone will try and snatch up > all the engines they can then resell them for an arm and a leg. > > > Jeff > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:04 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: Zenith-List: Sad day...Kind of I just sold my HDS. After 400 hours and 7 years she is now on her way Canada. Its been a fun planee to own...Oh well life moves on...To an RV7a in my case. Cheers Frank ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:15 AM PST US From: crvsecretary@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sad day...Kind of Congratulations Frank !! Do you intend to remain active on this site? Your experiance is invaluable and has been a benefit to all.... Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT N458XL (reserved) Working on wings do not archive -----Original Message----- Sent: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:32:08 -0700 I just sold my HDS. After 400 hours and 7 years she is now on her way Canada. Its been a fun planee to own...Oh well life moves on...To an RV7a in my case. Cheers Frank ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:10 AM PST US From: Trainnut01@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sad day...Kind of Frank. I sure hope you remain on the Zenith list for a while. If you leave it will be a sad day for us all. As you say, life moves on. I just sold my RV7A and am now building the wings for my new XL. I didn't make that decision, my medical examiner made it for me. But I promise you, you will love the 7A. Best wishes. Carroll Jernigan do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:17 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sad day...Kind of Well thanks Tracy, I think I will hang around, happy to give back to so many that have given to me. Interesting day of mixed emotions Frank Empty hangar Do not archive ________________________________ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of crvsecretary@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 6:47 AM Congratulations Frank !! Do you intend to remain active on this site? Your experiance is invaluable and has been a benefit to all.... Tracy Smith Naugatuck, CT N458XL (reserved) Working on wings do not archive -----Original Message----- Sent: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:32:08 -0700 I just sold my HDS. After 400 hours and 7 years she is now on her way Canada. Its been a fun planee to own...Oh well life moves on...To an RV7a in my case. Cheers Frank ________________________________ ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:17 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines Never underestimate the power of Volume when it comes to reducing price. overal costs by 30%. I heard somewhere tat GM makes more engines in one day than Lycoming made in its entire lifetime (no facts just hearsay). You can see this will have a dramatic effect on cost. Of course an Eggenfelner Soob will have a rebuild cost way lower than a IO360 clone. Then again I hope to not wear out my new IO360 any time soon either....:) Frank Do not archive ________________________________ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:46 PM Now, if someone would just come up with a reliable 180 HP engine that is reliable and cost like a corvair. Even the Subaru conversions are more than an experimental 180XP. ----- Original Message ----- From: paulrod36@msn.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:23 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines I'm afarid I would have to agree. Nothing against Lycoming, I flew behind an O-320 for 15 years, loving every minute of it, but a major proportion of homebuilders are trying to avoid new-plane, and certified-engine prices when we build. (It's analagous to hot rods. When I was a kid, you built what you drove, and if a magazine wrote you up, it was celebrating what you'd done with your own hands. Look at the average street rod magazine now, and it's Joe Jones' masterpiece, with engine by A, frame by B, upholstery by C, paint by D, and a celebration of Jones' wallet.) My 6-cylinder Corvair conversion will run smoother than a 4-cylinder Lycoming, and about $13,000 cheaper. If Lycoming and Continental want to penetrate the homebuilt and LSA markets, they need to fit our demographics, rather then expecting us to fit their price lists. I have nothing against anybody wanting to fly Lycomings or Continentals. It's chacon a son gout. I'd love to see them jump in, but at price points reflective of the niche they want to fill. Come to think of it, at the rate LSA is expanding, we are becoming a pretty market-significant niche, at that. On a related subject, I've always understood that certified engines are costlier because of the hoops they have to jump through, and the fact that nobody less than an A&P can wrench on them, and that automotive engines, although they have just as many or more parts, built to water-cooled tolerances, can cost way less out of the crate. Wouldn't it be nice if one of the bigs offered a crate full of parts for the homebuilder to assemble, as an experimental engine, at a comparable price? Paul Rodriguez 601XL/CORVAAAAIIR! DO NOT ARCHIVE. ----- Original Message ----- From: Clyde Barcus To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:39 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" Well said! If money was no object I would be flying a new glass paneled Grumman Tiger powered by Lycoming. Clyde Barcus 601XL, Corvair Powered Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:13 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Afterfxllc@aol.com > > I to love aviation and have since I was a kid....But the only way I'm > going > to get my bird in the air is to look else where for a power plant. Sure I > would love to hang a brand new Lycoming on the front of my bird but then I > would > be just like everyone else that would love to fly but can't afford to > I'm > sorry but my kit cost was 18,000.00 and with avionics I'm at 24 or 25 > thousand. > I am putting a corvair conversion in front of me for another 3,00000. I > think Lycoming should stick with certified aircraft or bring us a truly > experimental engine with a price tag to reflect the same or I feel you > will be left > behind in this market, others are at least coming up with alternatives > Lycoming is just giving us more of the same in a different colored box. > > FWIW > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > http://wiki.matronics================== =====p; sp; itle=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c o ntribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:45 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sad day...Kind of I can hardly wait...:) Thanks Carroll Frank Do not archive ________________________________ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Trainnut01@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 7:30 AM Frank. I sure hope you remain on the Zenith list for a while. If you leave it will be a sad day for us all. As you say, life moves on. I just sold my RV7A and am now building the wings for my new XL. I didn't make that decision, my medical examiner made it for me. But I promise you, you will love the 7A. Best wishes. Carroll Jernigan do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:48 AM PST US From: "Dave and Jan Clay" Subject: Zenith-List: Cheap metal bending brake that works If anyone needs an inexpensive bending brake that actually works go to the CH601XL group on yahoo. I've posted plans for an all metal 8 foot brake that requires no welding. It cost under $75 to build. And for all you critics that say it can't work...I bent my flap and aileron skins and long "L" angles and they all came out great. It does work and that's a fact. I can also email the plans complete with color photos in Adobe PDF format. The file is about 2.5 MB so make sure your email server will allow you to receive files that large. Dave Temple, TX scratch building 601XL _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:40 AM PST US From: "lgingell" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Jab 3300 Oil --> Zenith-List message posted by: "lgingell" Here in Northern California, I've been using W100 winter and summer in my 3300. I buy it by the case at a local distributor. Winter temps go from the upper 40's to 111F for today's high ('its a dry heat!'). ..lance @ 68CA -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42577#42577 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:48 AM PST US From: Larry Landucci Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines Regarding the statement "the fact that nobody less than an A&P can wrench on them", which refers to certified engines is not a fact, but a misconception. Once a certified engine is installed in an experimental aircraft the builder of the aircraft can service, overhaul, and do whatever he wants with the engine, even though this may not be smart if he is not capable of it. Larry Landucci Builder # 84865 N801LL ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:32 AM PST US From: "messydeer" Subject: Zenith-List: Alodine Removal from Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" Hey, guys! I've alodined and zinc chromated a few interior parts and am about to alodine the rudder interior. I plan on polishing the skins. I'm sure there will be some or a lot of alodine on the exterior skin. Can this be easily removed by scotchbrite or other polishing efforts. Thanks, Dan -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42613#42613 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:29 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cheap metal bending brake that works --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" Please email to me and thanks!!! skyguynca@skyguynca.com ---- Original Message ---- >If anyone needs an inexpensive bending brake that actually works go >to the >CH601XL group on yahoo. I've posted plans for an all metal 8 foot >brake that >requires no welding. It cost under $75 to build. And for all you >critics >that say it can't work...I bent my flap and aileron skins and long >"L" >angles and they all came out great. It does work and that's a fact. > > >I can also email the plans complete with color photos in Adobe PDF >format. >The file is about 2.5 MB so make sure your email server will allow >you to >receive files that large. > > >Dave >Temple, TX >scratch building 601XL > >_________________________________________________________________ >On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on >how to >get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:29 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: EGT Question I need a general concenses on EGT probes. I am putting a Corvair in my XL and I am wondering if I should go with 6 EGT probes or just one on each manifold? I belive 6 would give me better detection of a problem in a specific cylinder, but one probe in the right place would also detect a problem on one side of the engine. What do you think? Larry Husky 601XL Building fuse!! ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:48 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Alodine Removal from Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: OH NO!!! PLease not another round of SCotchbrite discussions! Ed Do Not Archive Do Not Mention Scotchbrite Again ---- messydeer wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" > > Hey, guys! > > I've alodined and zinc chromated a few interior parts and am about to alodine the rudder interior. I plan on polishing the skins. I'm sure there will be some or a lot of alodine on the exterior skin. Can this be easily removed by scotchbrite or other polishing efforts. > > Thanks, > Dan ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:17 PM PST US From: "Christopher Smith" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines apply. You are free to remove the engines data plate and replace it with one of your own & then it will be experimental and you can "wrench on them". On 6/23/06, Larry Landucci wrote: > > Regarding the statement "the fact that nobody less than an A&P can > wrench on them", which refers to certified engines is not a fact, but a > misconception. > Once a certified engine is installed in an experimental aircraft the > builder of the aircraft can service, overhaul, and do whatever he wants > with the engine, even though this may not be smart if he is not capable > of it. > > Larry Landucci > Builder # 84865 > N801LL > -- Christopher W. E. Smith fly1m1 http://ch-601xl.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:23 PM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EGT Question WW has this answer in his archives-( he says in so many words: why have 6 when a lot of production aircraft have none)-------- I'm going with one on each side. Fritz--- Corvair, scratch builder, 90/90 do not archive LHusky@aol.com wrote: I need a general concenses on EGT probes. I am putting a Corvair in my XL and I am wondering if I should go with 6 EGT probes or just one on each manifold? I belive 6 would give me better detection of a problem in a specific cylinder, but one probe in the right place would also detect a problem on one side of the engine. What do you think? Larry Husky 601XL Building fuse!! --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:08 PM PST US From: kevinbonds@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: Firewall --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net Regarding plans building an XL, I am looking ahead trying to make some decisions. Hope you guys and gals can help me out in hte next few emails (broken up to make them more searchable). (1) Back many months ago I seem to remember some talk about using thicker material for the firewall. For those of you flying, has the 18 gauge steel for the firewall seemed sufficient? Noticed in the archives one builder went with stainless steel. Is this a good idea? Stiffer? Better heat resistance in a fire? Kevin Bonds http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:52 PM PST US From: kevinbonds@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: Composite gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net I would like to use the AS composite gear legs. Anyone have info on the mods needed for this? Drawings etc. Ive already fabbed my gear channel but have not yet installed. Will it need modifying? Kevin Bonds http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:22 PM PST US From: kevinbonds@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: Alodine Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net I have alodined some of my parts with the gold colored alodine. After final rinsing for several minutes I noticed that while drying them with a white cotton rag, I get a tan/gold residue left behind on the white cotton i.e. the alodine seems to come off. Surely it is not. Perhaps, just the dye? Is this normal? Should I not wipe after drying? Kevin Bonds http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:25 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EGT Question Hi, Larry. I, too, wanted to use 6 egt probes on the Corvair. But upon looking at the exhaust manifold, there jus ain't enough room to do it properly with the quick radius bend. So I'm settling for one on each side. So I'll have dual CHT, and dual EGT. Should be enough. Best, Rick Lindstrom LHusky@aol.com wrote: > I need a general concenses on EGT probes. I am putting a Corvair in > my XL and I am wondering if I should go with 6 EGT probes or just one > on each manifold? I belive 6 would give me better detection of a > problem in a specific cylinder, but one probe in the right place would > also detect a problem on one side of the engine. What do you think? > > Larry Husky > 601XL > Building fuse!! ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:18 PM PST US From: kevinbonds@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net Can someone send me a picture of one of the aileron bellcranks that will explain the riveted spacer assembly on 6W10-1&2. The side view drawing of the spacer and bellcrank showing countersunk rivets does not make sense to me. Looks like both the shop-head and factory-head are both countersunk on each rivet. Is this correct? How does one do this? Kevin Bonds http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:08 PM PST US From: Hudsonmusic1@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cheap metal bending brake that works Could you send me a link to the bending brake? Thanks, Jeff Hudson ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:20 PM PST US From: "messydeer" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alodine Removal from Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" I was able to get ahold of a Henkel tech today. He said it would come off, but suggested masking with aluminum tape, or with painters tape if I didn't (I don't) have any. Said painters tape should work for the short time it's immersed. Dan -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42671#42671 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:11 PM PST US From: "Bill Bartlett" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cheap metal bending brake that works --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett" Dave, please send me the email file too! Thanks, Bill B bbartlett5@satx.rr.com Do not archive -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave and Jan Clay Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:45 AM If anyone needs an inexpensive bending brake that actually works go to the CH601XL group on yahoo. I've posted plans for an all metal 8 foot brake that requires no welding. It cost under $75 to build. And for all you critics that say it can't work...I bent my flap and aileron skins and long "L" angles and they all came out great. It does work and that's a fact. I can also email the plans complete with color photos in Adobe PDF format. The file is about 2.5 MB so make sure your email server will allow you to receive files that large. Dave Temple, TX scratch building 601XL _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:47 PM PST US From: Hudsonmusic1@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Gettinnterested in the corvair All this talk about the corvair has me thinking. But, I have a few questions I hope you guys can answer; what is the useful load when using the corvair? Can it still be a tri-gear? Which year or maodel numbers are best to use? How many are now flying in the 601? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Hudson ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:33 PM PST US From: Tom and Bren Henderson Subject: Zenith-List: Top skin material substitution I hate .016 aluminum. It dimples too easily, it's damned noisy, and our CNC punches like to eat it for lunch. That being said, has anyone replaced the Middle or Rear top skins (6-B-21-6 and 7 on the XL) with .025 aluminum? I understand the weight issue, especially that far from the CG, but did anyone encounter any other issues that might not be so readily apparent? ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:28 PM PST US From: Tom and Bren Henderson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gettinnterested in the corvair This should answer all your questions: http://www.flycorvair.com/601.html Great engines if you're at all mechanically gifted. Hudsonmusic1@aol.com wrote: All this talk about the corvair has me thinking. But, I have a few questions I hope you guys can answer; what is the useful load when using the corvair? Can it still be a tri-gear? Which year or maodel numbers are best to use? How many are now flying in the 601? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Hudson ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:08 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cheap metal bending brake that works --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" I got it from the xl group, thanks Dave David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 3:55 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett" > > Dave, please send me the email file too! > > Thanks, > Bill B bbartlett5@satx.rr.com > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave and > Jan Clay > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:45 AM > > > If anyone needs an inexpensive bending brake that actually works go to > the > CH601XL group on yahoo. I've posted plans for an all metal 8 foot brake > that > requires no welding. It cost under $75 to build. And for all you critics > > that say it can't work...I bent my flap and aileron skins and long "L" > angles and they all came out great. It does work and that's a fact. > > > I can also email the plans complete with color photos in Adobe PDF > format. > The file is about 2.5 MB so make sure your email server will allow you > to > receive files that large. > > > Dave > Temple, TX > scratch building 601XL > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how > to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:15 PM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EGT Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" My plane only has one EGT gauge. It is used primarily as a baseline for leaning. I think many people go overboard when they are getting guages for their engine. I didn't. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey >From: LHusky@aol.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: EGT Question Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:03:29 EDT > >I need a general concenses on EGT probes. I am putting a Corvair in my XL >and I am wondering if I should go with 6 EGT probes or just one on each >manifold? I belive 6 would give me better detection of a problem in a >specific >cylinder, but one probe in the right place would also detect a problem on >one >side of the engine. What do you think? > >Larry Husky >601XL >Building fuse!! ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:18 PM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gettinnterested in the corvair --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" As someone else has pointed out, almost all of these questions have been answered on William Wynne's web site: www.flycorvair.com Also, my tri gear 601XL weighs 777 pounds empty, yeilding over 540 pounds of useful load. It climbs very nicely a little over gross (don't ask me how I know because it has never happend). Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey >From: Hudsonmusic1@aol.com >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Gettinnterested in the corvair >Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:09:35 EDT > >All this talk about the corvair has me thinking. But, I have a few >questions >I hope you guys can answer; what is the useful load when using the corvair? >Can it still be a tri-gear? Which year or maodel numbers are best to use? >How >many are now flying in the 601? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff >Hudson ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:42 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gettinnterested in the corvair I'm not "gifted" (though some have called me "special") but I'm about to start assembling my Corvair engine for the second time. The last engine I worked on was a lawn mower engine in high school. So if I can do it so can most others. -- Craig _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom and Bren Henderson Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 5:38 PM This should answer all your questions: http://www.flycorvair.com/601.html Great engines if you're at all mechanically gifted. Hudsonmusic1@aol.com wrote: All this talk about the corvair has me thinking. But, I have a few questions I hope you guys can answer; what is the useful load when using the corvair? Can it still be a tri-gear? Which year or maodel numbers are best to use? How many are now flying in the 601? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Hudson ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:50 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Re: Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Wheel Pants I looked at the wheel pants on the AMD 601 XL at Oshkosh last year, and I definitely think they look better than the ZAC wheel pants. However they still appear to be larger than necessary, if you compare them to the wheel pants on the RVs. I may be mistaken, but don't the RVs use the same size main gear wheels as the XL? If so, why can't the XL use a smaller, more proportional set of wheel pants like the RVs? Dave Van Lanen Madison - WI 601XL - stabilizer Time: 12:34:21 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Dear Thread Friends, I understand that ZAC is going to adopt a different wheel pants for the XL that is the same as the AMD pants. I really don't like the old "wide body" ZAC pants I have now. Anybody out there using the AMD models after using the old ZAC pants ? Was there any speed increase. To tell the truth I didn't notice much difference with or without pants, but I am willing to learn. Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:57 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Zenith-List: On the roll All- Response has been positive to the questionnaire. No amendment suggestions, and I already have a few completed ones in the bank. SA would like to see 25 responses. I admit, I have a personal reason for taking this project on. I "Toughed it out" on my own for 1-1/2 years with no help because there weren't any Zenith builders within a 50 mile radius until just recently. My closest "Buddy" is building a different version, and he's "Only" an hour away. I want the SA readers to know there is an alternative form of help. That said, I'll post the questionnaire once again. Everyone remains anonymous unless you wish otherwise. Please respond off-list to save space. Thanks. Bill do not archive QUESTIONNAIRE SETTING THE STAGE 1. Were you aware of, and did you join a builder's list before you made a final kit choice? 2. Did you post questions on the list re: your reservations concerning a potential choice? 3. Did the responses (Assuming any) have a significant effect on your final choice? 4. If "No" to the above, how long had you been building before joining? 5. How long would it take to drive to the nearest local builder of your kit brand and model? 6. How long would it take to drive to the nearest local builder of your kit brand? 7. Was the lack of local builders the primary reason you joined a list? 8. If "No" to any of the above, why did you join a list? DAY TO DAY 1. How many days a week do you post to your list? (Do you feel more of a need to be an active contributor vs a passive member) 2. Are most of your posts re: specific technical questions/answers, or are they more socially and opinion oriented? 3. What is the percentage of answers/leads to technical questions you get from your list as opposed to other sources? 4. Do you find your participation in a list more satisfying from a technical or social aspect? CRUNCH TIME (This is the "Essay test" portion) We've all been faced with major setbacks. No matter the circumstances, the first question is "How did that happen?" Answer as many times as you like. Suggestions for content are: Did you know before you posted that you were the cause of the problem? If you knew you screwed up, did you post to "Admit your guilt and confess your sins", getting the reinforcement from other listers like, "Yeah, join the club", enabling you to go on? Were you angry at yourself or depressed? How long does it take you to get over the anger/depression/indecision and back to work? Did you post to determine where you screwed up? Was the list instrumental in finding the reason? How do you feel about problems attributable to the kit manufacturer? BOTTOM LINE 1. Has membership to the list been worthwhile? 2. Has membership to the list provided enough support to salvage a seemingly hopeless project? 3. Would you recommend membership in a list to a newbie? ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:46 PM PST US From: "L. Kilburg" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cheap metal bending brake that works --> Zenith-List message posted by: "L. Kilburg" Here too, please > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Bill Bartlett > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 5:55 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cheap metal bending brake that works > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Bartlett" > --> > > Dave, please send me the email file too! > > Thanks, > Bill B bbartlett5@satx.rr.com > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Dave and Jan Clay > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:45 AM > > > If anyone needs an inexpensive bending brake that actually > works go to the CH601XL group on yahoo. I've posted plans for > an all metal 8 foot brake that requires no welding. It cost > under $75 to build. And for all you critics > > that say it can't work...I bent my flap and aileron skins and > long "L" > angles and they all came out great. It does work and that's a fact. > > > I can also email the plans complete with color photos in > Adobe PDF format. > The file is about 2.5 MB so make sure your email server will > allow you to receive files that large. > > > Dave > Temple, TX > scratch building 601XL > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how > to > get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Date: 6/23/2006 > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Date: 6/23/2006 > > -- ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:51 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gettinnterested in the corvair Aside from William Wynne's web site also consider joining the e-mail list about Corvair engines in aircraft: http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft And Mark Langford's web site about his Corvair-powered KR-2S is not to be missed: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford -- Craig ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:18 PM PST US From: "Jim Pellien" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: MASPL Demonstrator Aircraft For Sale - Save over $12,000 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes is selling its 2005 Zenair 601XL SLSA Demonstration and Training Aircraft (N601VA , highlighted in a number of different aviation magazines and also in Popular Mechanics Magazine in the April 2006 issue). Save over $12,000 off the new price. N601VA has only been used for less than 350 flight hours. Meticulously maintained and Inspected every 50 hours. Will deliver anyplace within 1000 miles of Washington, DC for FREE. We will deliver anytime after our new airplane arrives on May 29th. This aircraft, because it has been certified as an SLSA, can be used for commercial flight training and commercial rentals. EQUIPPED WITH: Air Speed Indicator Altimeter Vertical Speed Indicator Engine Instruments Hobbs Meter Dual control sticks with PTT and Electric Aileron and Elevator Trim Aluminum HD Gear System with 5.00X5 wheels Tinted Canopy with Lock Dual Toe Brakes Electric Flap Control Electric Elevator Trim with Indicator (button control on stick) Electric Aileron Trim with Indicator (button control on stick) Cabin Heat Two Color Paint Upgrade Wing Lockers L+R wings Vertical Card Compass Upgrade Garmin GTX 327 Transponder (with AK-350 encoder & antenna) Garmin GNC-250XL Communications and GPS Intercom PS Engineering PM 1000 ELT AK 450 Strobe Lights Navigation Lights Landing Light Lighted Panel Cabin Cover Leather Seats Miniature Air Cooler Regular Price: $91,506 Selling Price: $79,000 Call 703-313-4818 for further information or write to: jim@pellien.com Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes Sky Bryce Airport (VG18) Basye, VA www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:16 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Firewall (Long) Hello Kevin, I am the one that made a SS firewall for my 701. Will like to make a comment. Hope it helps you and all the group. The main reason I made the firewall out of Stainless Steel, was because my everyday work is manufacturing and selling fast food carts and equipment, we work a lot with diferent thickness of stainless, we have in our factory 5 TIG welders and several brakes (up to 12') etc. So building the firewall from SS was kind of a "trade mark" mostly, the galvanized steel one with the kit was out of place here :-) , all our friends told us... Following the advise from this great list, we Zinc Chromate well all the aluminum that could touch the FW and put a drop of ZC in each rivet to prevent any galvanic corrosion. Yes, we have lots of experience with SS, mild steel and fiberglass, but was our first aluminum airplane, so we were also another newbys in this list, thanking all the advise from the group, I had the chance to read. Now to your question. the 701 will fly and land in rought terrain OK without changing the firewall with the kit. The ZAC airplanes are a GREAT piece of Engineering. The final product of a real genious, I am sure they cant be made more light and more strong that they are. A local pilot got his 701 in a ditch at the end of his strip and I was surpriced (sp?) how strong the plane is as factory built and how much punishment can support with so little harm. The plane was easyly rebuilt with just a few parts (front fork area) and the firewall was in very good shape, just needed a little straightining and is now flying... We are homebuilders, so if you want to make a SS FW, Ok just us harder to cut and drill (yes we used more bits in the FW than in the hole airplane. Bending the edge is a little harder also butnot much, just that SS has diferent "memory" when doing the bending. Remember also s omething I read from an experienced builder: Everything you change from the plans, will add about 100 hrs to the final building process.... Happy building and also remember: The only good thing to add to an airplane is lightness and simplicity... Saludos Gary Gower Flying a 701 from Chapala, Mexico, Building a 601 XL kit. kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net Regarding plans building an XL, I am looking ahead trying to make some decisions. Hope you guys and gals can help me out in hte next few emails (broken up to make them more searchable). (1) Back many months ago I seem to remember some talk about using thicker material for the firewall. For those of you flying, has the 18 gauge steel for the firewall seemed sufficient? Noticed in the archives one builder went with stainless steel. Is this a good idea? Stiffer? Better heat resistance in a fire? Kevin Bonds http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:11 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: More On Gas Cap --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> I have the same problem with four of the ZAC 12-gal. tanks. I paid the high ZAC price thinking at the time that at least the factory tanks would fit right, but apparently that was falty reasoning. Seems to me that shimming up the top skin is not practical and a smaller shim in/around/under the cap makes more sense. The "hammer down" technique scares me, as I'm sure I would pound too far in at least one area. So, when hammered down too far, how do you pull back up? Also, as an aside question regarding the fuel caps, has anyone contemplated or accomplished rekeying the locks? Seems crude to me to have to deal with four separate keys instead of one to fit all tanks. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:24 PM > Listers, I am attaching a picture so that you can see what I am facing. > > Phil and Ed - thank you for responding specifically. I have asked > more questions below. If anyone else has any more thoughts, I would > love to hear it. > > ___________ > Phil Pyatt wrote: > > My wife and I had to beat the welded colars down into the tank. Also > the colars were not square with the leading edge to begin with so we > also used some fairly high force to bend them so that the cap had even > gap distance all the way around the leading edge. > ________________ > > Phil - as much as I like the sound of beating something right now, I'm > not sure I understand. Isn't the collar welded on? How can you beat > it farther down? > > I certainly seem to be in the same position - it clearly needs to go > down and it is not flush with the shape of the skin. > > _____________ > Ed Moody wrote: > > You most certainly can shim under the skin to push it up taught > under the filler flange. No matter how tight the skin feels to your > touch the geometry involved will allow you to use cork to lift the > skin to snug under the flange. Give it a try. I'm working on that same > issue right now. > ______________ > > Ed - I don't think I understand your response either. It certainly > seems too tight to shim under the skin to raise it up. It is close > enough to the edge of the tank and the nearest rib that I can't > imagine it coming up this much. The skin was extremely tight to wrap > around the tank and it seems to be pretty set in its geometry (tight > from wrap around front of tank to tight against spar). > > After looking at the picture, do you still think I can shim it? > > Thanks for everyone's help. > > Michael Valentine > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Attachment: > http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/3d068b3811e209be6858f3d22b39b68b5a1d87ae.JPG > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:56 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Wheel Pants Con't Jim, I made them from aluminum hole caps and a nut plate. I don't have any photos of them. If you are interested I'll try to get some on some site for you to look at, Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:51 PM PST US From: "jsimons2" Subject: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" Hi all, I believe that I am in deep sh**. Today I ordered my plans for a Zodiac CH 601 HDS without telling my wife that I was even near ordering plans. How much longer do I have to live? (Read as "How long does it take for the plans to arrive?") How long do I have to get the dog house in order and liveable? HELLLLLLLLLP!!! Jerome Almost a "scrap" builder (if I live) Just waiting on plans now. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42704#42704 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:55 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Finished with empanage ! Good going Hudson! Success at the beginning is a key factor in competition rates. We all know how happy you will be after the next 1240 hours and you wheel out your new airplane. do not archive ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:40 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! Jerome, lie to her. That and drink heavily. Worked for all the rest of us. Right guys ? do not archive ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:38 PM PST US From: "messydeer" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alodine Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" Kevin: Sounds like you followed directions according to the Alodine literature. I did the same thing you did, got the same result. So I asked Henkel. Here's their response (read from bottom up, duh!): Sorry, I'm brain dead. I thought you were talking centigrade. What I meant to say was: run Alodine at room temp 70F +/- 10F. 50F is too cold for Alodine. I stand by the air dry program, or heated air below 140F--no rags! Use a hair dryer if you are in a hurry. Yes, you can paint anytime the parts are dry--I said avoid physical contact, touching, rubbing, wiping with rags. Paint withing 24 hours. Good luck! DAVID TOMLINSON Account Executive Henkel Aerospace Cell (562)972-0844 david.tomlinson@us.henkel.com Dan Morehouse 03/14/2006 12:57 PM To: david.tomlinson@us.henkel.com cc: Subject: Re: Alodine and Alumiprep Thanks, David. 20-30F? So instead of diluting with water, you throw ice in it? Here's what the tech data sheet says: Operation and Control: Time 2 to 5 minutes Temperature Ambient to 100 Fahrenheit And here's what it says about drying and painting afterwards: As an aid to drying, heating the treated part, blowing off with clean, dry, filtered, forced air or gently wiping with a dry, clean rag will lessen the time required. Do not allow the aluminum metal temperature to exceed 140 Fahrenheit. Paint soon after the work is dry in order to prevent soils or oxidation from recontaminating the prepared metal surface. I painted immediatley after it dried, as suggested. Are you saying I should wait longer? Thanks, Dan david.tomlinson@us.henkel.com wrote: Dan: The Alumiprep procedure is correct, and you may reuse the solution. The Alodine may be too warm, I would recommend 20-30F. 1-5 minutes to achieve desired color. After Alodine, rinse well and drip or air blow dry. Do not wipe the parts dry! Alodine coatings are gelatinous for several hours initially. Minimize contact for about 4 hours minimum, 8 is better. Also, stout plastic buckets might be better. You can hang your parts in with aluminum wires. DAVID TOMLINSON Account Executive Henkel Aerospace Cell (562)972-0844 david.tomlinson@us.henkel.com Dan Morehouse 03/13/2006 03:57 PM To: bill.wittke@us.henkel.com cc: (bcc: David Tomlinson/US/Americas/HENKEL) Subject: Alodine and Alumiprep Hello: I'm using Alumiprep and Alodine on 6061-T6. I'm aware of the safety precautions needed, but have a few questions about my application. I mixed the Alumiprep according to immersion directions, 1:3 with water, I believe. My parts were small, so I double bagged gallon ziplock freezer bags and dropped the parts in. The parts had been scoured with maroon scotchbrite 7447 and then cleaned with a solvent. I used Naphtha, just because it was there. I would normally use acetone. The parts fizzed and I left them in for maybe 5 minutes. Is this about right? Solution temerature was maybe 55F. Rinsed them with water and immeresed them into Alodine 1201 1:2 with water. Solution temp was maybe 50F. After 5 minutes, I removed them and rinsed with water. I read in the tech manual that using a cloth to dry was okay. But that seemed to take off the Alodine, so I stopped immediately. Could you explain this please? Also, can I reuse the Alumiprep? I know I can do that with the Alodine. Thanks, Dan -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42708#42708 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:12 PM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Ah... you'll live through the $$$'s for the plans.... After you order a $2K pallet of 6061-T6 aluminum sheet...let me know, I'll send up a prayer for you... :-) Randy XL - Wings - Plans Only http://www.n344rb.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:25 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" > > Hi all, > I believe that I am in deep sh**. Today I ordered my plans for a Zodiac > CH 601 HDS without telling my wife that I was even near ordering plans. > How much longer do I have to live? (Read as "How long does it take for the > plans to arrive?") How long do I have to get the dog house in order and > liveable? HELLLLLLLLLP!!! > > Jerome > Almost a "scrap" builder (if I live) > Just waiting on plans now. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42704#42704 > > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:11 PM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Re: Zenith-List: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank Kevin---- these are solid countersunk rivets--------make countersink holes on both sides of 6W10-2, install rivet , and than peen over with hammer. smooth the peened side with a file to make it flush (smooth to the surface of 6W10-2 (spacer). Hope this helps-- Fritz Corvair, 601XL plans builder, 90/90 kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net Can someone send me a picture of one of the aileron bellcranks that will explain the riveted spacer assembly on 6W10-1&2. The side view drawing of the spacer and bellcrank showing countersunk rivets does not make sense to me. Looks like both the shop-head and factory-head are both countersunk on each rivet. Is this correct? How does one do this? Kevin Bonds http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:06 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! Airplane? What airplane? I don't see any airplane? Paul do not archive At 06:42 PM 6/23/2006, you wrote: >Jerome, lie to her. That and drink heavily. Worked for all the rest >of us. Right guys ? >do not archive - ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:06 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" Jerome, Seems like it was 7-10 days, pretty quick. Don't worry. When we all got kicked out we gathered at Battle Mountain, Nevada. Getting to be quite a large group...Oh, nobody told you? Gary Boothe Cool, CA 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion Tail done, working on wings.... -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jsimons2 Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 6:25 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" Hi all, I believe that I am in deep sh**. Today I ordered my plans for a Zodiac CH 601 HDS without telling my wife that I was even near ordering plans. How much longer do I have to live? (Read as "How long does it take for the plans to arrive?") How long do I have to get the dog house in order and liveable? HELLLLLLLLLP!!! Jerome Almost a "scrap" builder (if I live) Just waiting on plans now. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42704#42704 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:00 PM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! Yeah, convince her that SHE is the one on drugs and halucinating...seeing planes..parts..large invoices.. LOL! Randy Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulwitz To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! Airplane? What airplane? I don't see any airplane? Paul do not archive At 06:42 PM 6/23/2006, you wrote: Jerome, lie to her. That and drink heavily. Worked for all the rest of us. Right guys ? do not archive - ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:49 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: 601/ Stratus Engine Mount Yesterday I tried to hang the Stratus EA81 on my Zodiac 601. Three of the four mount bolts went in smoothly, but the lower left hand mount bolt misses the hole in the mount by almost the whole diameter of the bolt. No way can I shift things around or deflect the legs of the mount to get the bolt in. Another local builder had the same problem, but was able to force a fit. Has anyone else on the list had this problem? I bought my firewall-forward kit, including the engine mount, in 2000. The mount mated up with the firewall, no sweat. In response to other builder's reports of cracking lugs on the firewall end of the mount, I had gussets added to those lugs. Since three of the engine mounts line up, I doubt that welding induced enough distortion to create my current problem. I did modify the mount, so I'm reluctant to throw the blame on the factory, although I suspect that's where it belongs. Thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions. George ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:15 PM PST US From: ROBERT SCEPPA Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! for you jsimons --> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA An old hillbilly farmer had a wife who nagged him unmercifully. always complaining about something. The only time he got any relief was when he was out plowing with his old mule. He tried to plow a lot. One day, when he was out plowing, his wife brought him lunch in the field. He drove the old mule into the shade, sat down on a stump, and began to eat his lunch. Immediately, his wife began haranguing him again. Complain, nag, nag; it just went on and on. All of a sudden, the old mule lashed out with both hind feet; caught her smack in the back of the head. Killed her dead on the spot. At the funeral several days later, the minister noticed something rather odd. When a woman mourner would approach the old farmer, he would listen for a minute, then nod his head in agreement; but when a man mourner approached him, he would listen for a minute, then shake his head in disagreement. This was so consistent, the minister decided to ask the old farmer about it. So after the funeral, the minister spoke to the old farmer, and asked him why he nodded his head and agreed with the women, but always shook his head and disagreed with all the men. The old farmer said: "Well, the women would come up and say something about how nice my wife looked, or how pretty her dress was, so I'd nod my head in agreement." "And what about the men?" the minister asked. "They wanted to know if the mule was for sale." DeleteReplyForwardSpamMove... Previous | Next | Back to Messages Save Message Text | Full Headers Check MailCompose Search MailSearch the Web --- jsimons2 wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" > > > Hi all, > I believe that I am in deep sh**. Today I > ordered my plans for a Zodiac CH 601 HDS without > telling my wife that I was even near ordering plans. > How much longer do I have to live? (Read as "How > long does it take for the plans to arrive?") How > long do I have to get the dog house in order and > liveable? HELLLLLLLLLP!!! > > Jerome > Almost a "scrap" builder (if I live) > Just waiting on plans now. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42704#42704 > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:16 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Alodine Question Thanks David. Your info was a big help. That 20-30F thing freaked me out till I read further. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 8:45 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" Kevin: Sounds like you followed directions according to the Alodine literature. I did the same thing you did, got the same result. So I asked Henkel. Here's their response (read from bottom up, duh!): Sorry, I'm brain dead. I thought you were talking centigrade. What I meant to say was: run Alodine at room temp 70F +/- 10F. 50F is too cold for Alodine. I stand by the air dry program, or heated air below 140F--no rags! Use a hair dryer if you are in a hurry. Yes, you can paint anytime the parts are dry--I said avoid physical contact, touching, rubbing, wiping with rags. Paint withing 24 hours. Good luck! DAVID TOMLINSON Account Executive Henkel Aerospace Cell (562)972-0844 david.tomlinson@us.henkel.com Dan Morehouse 03/14/2006 12:57 PM To: david.tomlinson@us.henkel.com cc: Subject: Re: Alodine and Alumiprep Thanks, David. 20-30F? So instead of diluting with water, you throw ice in it? Here's what the tech data sheet says: Operation and Control: Time 2 to 5 minutes Temperature Ambient to 100=C2=B0 Fahrenheit And here's what it says about drying and painting afterwards: As an aid to drying, heating the treated part, blowing off with clean, dry, filtered, forced air or gently wiping with a dry, clean rag will lessen the time required. Do not allow the aluminum metal temperature to exceed 140 Fahrenheit. Paint soon after the work is dry in order to prevent soils or oxidation from recontaminating the prepared metal surface. I painted immediatley after it dried, as suggested. Are you saying I should wait longer? Thanks, Dan david.tomlinson@us.henkel.com wrote: Dan: The Alumiprep procedure is correct, and you may reuse the solution. The Alodine may be too warm, I would recommend 20-30F. 1-5 minutes to achieve desired color. After Alodine, rinse well and drip or air blow dry. Do not wipe the parts dry! Alodine coatings are gelatinous for several hours initially. Minimize contact for about 4 hours minimum, 8 is better. Also, stout plastic buckets might be better. You can hang your parts in with aluminum wires. DAVID TOMLINSON Account Executive Henkel Aerospace Cell (562)972-0844 david.tomlinson@us.henkel.com Dan Morehouse 03/13/2006 03:57 PM To: bill.wittke@us.henkel.com cc: (bcc: David Tomlinson/US/Americas/HENKEL) Subject: Alodine and Alumiprep Hello: I'm using Alumiprep and Alodine on 6061-T6. I'm aware of the safety precautions needed, but have a few questions about my application. I mixed the Alumiprep according to immersion directions, 1:3 with water, I believe. My parts were small, so I double bagged gallon ziplock freezer bags and dropped the parts in. The parts had been scoured with maroon scotchbrite 7447 and then cleaned with a solvent. I used Naphtha, just because it was there. I would normally use acetone. The parts fizzed and I left them in for maybe 5 minutes. Is this about right? Solution temerature was maybe 55F. Rinsed them with water and immeresed them into Alodine 1201 1:2 with water. Solution temp was maybe 50F. After 5 minutes, I removed them and rinsed with water. I read in the tech manual that using a cloth to dry was okay. But that seemed to take off the Alodine, so I stopped immediately. Could you explain this please? Also, can I reuse the Alumiprep? I know I can do that with the Alodine. Thanks, Dan -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42708#42708 ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:05 PM PST US From: "kevinbonds" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank Thanks Fritz. That seemed to be the direction the plans were pointing me toward, but this is the first I've ever heard of this countersinking both sides business. I'll give it a shot. Kevin Bonds Nashville TN 601XL Corvair powered; Plans building. Empennage done; working on wings and engine. http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE _____ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Big Gee Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 8:52 PM Kevin---- these are solid countersunk rivets--------make countersink holes on both sides of 6W10-2, install rivet , and than peen over with hammer. smooth the peened side with a file to make it flush (smooth to the surface of 6W10-2 (spacer). Hope this helps-- Fritz Corvair, 601XL plans builder, 90/90 kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net Can someone send me a picture of one of the aileron bellcranks that will explain the riveted spacer assembly on 6W10-1&2. The side view drawing of the spacer and bellcrank showing countersunk rivets does not make sense to me. Looks like both the shop-head and factory-head are both countersunk on each rivet. Is this correct? How does one do this? Kevin _____ Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there's much more to come. ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:52 PM PST US From: "norriedh" Subject: Zenith-List: Rivets: Update on where to buy --> Zenith-List message posted by: "norriedh" There have been posts on this site as well as the Zenith and CH701 Matronics sites about where to buy additional A4 and A5 rivets. These note that the English-made rivets which are the ones traditionally recommended as being of best quality were available from Avdel Division of Textron Canada Ltd, Ph 1-800-268-9947 or (416) 679-0622. These English-made rivets are no longer available from this source, in fact, these rivets are not made in England any more and in any case are now not sold anywhere in North America. However, Textron, above, still sell the A4 and A5 rivets to the same strength specifications but they are made in Textron's own factory in China. I talked to one of their technical people and was assured that the factory does all the necessary testing to ensure the rivets are up to the spec (Textron's website gives the strength and other data). Even Zenith source their rivets from Textron above and no longer even do their own tests on each batch as they once did. The part numbers and prices are A4 01604-00412 49.99 CDN per thousand A5 01604-00514 64.45 CDN per thousand Textron will take orders online and accept credit card. These rivets are also available from resellers including Zenith and others. Ordering direct from Textron is usually cheaper. The Textron tech said that they have done tests on holes in overlapping sheets where the holes did not line up. In general, the rivets wont line up the holes --- apparently the side forces generated are not too significant -- but he stressed that all the offset holes will get filled by rivet material (Unless the holes are way too much out of line). This agrees with my own testing -- I made overlapping coupons of 6061 sheet -- sometimes two sheets other times three - with sheet thicknesses varying from .016 to .040 inch - -- sectioned the riveted coupons -- and found the A5 rivets would completely fill holes offset up to .020 and sometimes even more - and the A4 a bit less. Douglas N Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42736#42736 ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:16 PM PST US From: "Steve Hulland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! Put the plans in the doghouse and work on the airplane there. She will never look in the doghouse - consider making the doghouse bigger. Do Not Archive-- Semper Fi, Steven R. Hulland CH 600, Amado, AZ This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments. ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:57 PM PST US From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivets: Update on where to buy --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David Mikesell" The A4 and A5 rivets are avex rivets right? That is the brand name and they are available from alot of suppliers. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 8:56 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "norriedh" > > There have been posts on this site as well as the Zenith and CH701 > Matronics sites about where to buy additional A4 and A5 rivets. > These note that the English-made rivets which are the ones > traditionally recommended as being of best quality were available > from Avdel Division of Textron Canada Ltd, Ph 1-800-268-9947 or (416) > 679-0622. These English-made rivets are no longer available from > this source, in fact, these rivets are not made in England any more and in any case are now not sold anywhere in North America. > > However, Textron, above, still sell the A4 and A5 rivets to the same > strength specifications but they are made in Textron's own factory > in China. I talked to one of their technical people and was assured > that the factory does all the necessary testing to ensure the rivets > are up to the spec (Textron's website gives the strength and other > data). Even Zenith source their rivets from Textron above and no > longer even do their own tests on each batch as they once did. > > The part numbers and prices are > > A4 01604-00412 49.99 CDN per thousand > A5 01604-00514 64.45 CDN per thousand > > Textron will take orders online and accept credit card. > > These rivets are also available from resellers including Zenith and > others. Ordering direct from Textron is usually cheaper. > > The Textron tech said that they have done tests on holes in > overlapping sheets where the holes did not line up. In general, the > rivets wont line up the holes --- apparently the side forces > generated are not too significant -- but he stressed that all the > offset holes will get filled by rivet material (Unless the holes are > way too much out of line). This agrees with my own testing -- I made > overlapping coupons of 6061 sheet -- sometimes two sheets other > times three - with sheet thicknesses varying from .016 to .040 inch - > -- sectioned the riveted coupons -- and found the A5 rivets would > completely fill holes offset up to .020 and sometimes even more - > and the A4 a bit less. > > Douglas N > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42736#42736 > > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:37 PM PST US From: "messydeer" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alodine Question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" You're welcome. It's sorta hard to figure out, but I'm Dan. David is the techie from Henkel. Ciao, Dan -------- Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42745#42745 ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:16 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! Jerome, IF your wife is "that type" :-) You have only one option: Imagine you airplane as an affair with a lady and you are getting very involved... Keep it in secret as much as you can, once she finds out (they always find out, sooner or later), there is no way around, only one thing she can do... Accept you with "her" or look for a job :-) Dont forget to get a shirt with this writen: "My ex want me to quit flying" :-) Normally tuff women are like that because the husband doesnt put the rules since the beguining or marriage. Is dificult to understand that a man spends most (sometimes all) of the money he earnes, to be treated as a slave! Is like going to a very expensive restaurant and eating what they give you without the chance to choose :-) The one that pays is the one that gives the orders. Marriage Democracy? B****t. :-) :-) :-) A friend here had similar problem with wife when buying his airplane. He solve it fast this way: Told her that men are always grown up kids :-) (Wifes always say that) So kids need toys to play... If he cant play with airplanes, he might go an play with Barbies :-) :-) He bought the plane that week! Saludos Gary Gower. Yes, Mexican :-) JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: Jerome, lie to her. That and drink heavily. Worked for all the rest of us. Right guys ? do not archive --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:50 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: . Fuel gauge issue.. For all you guys with flying Zenith stuff and any other ones that use th e VDO fuel gauges and senders. My 801 has 120+ hours on her and a quirk has reared it ugly head. On initial fireup the gauges read correctly, af ter about 10 minutes the right one peggs to full fuel. if I turn off the master switch and wait for a few seconds and power up the panel again i t does the same thing, 10 mintes and the gauge heads towards full. I am guessing it's the sender unit... Any guesses out their??? Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com =2E For all you guys with flying Zenith stuff and any other ones that use the VDO fuel gauges and senders. My 801 has 120+ hours on her and a quirk has reared it ugly head. On initial fireup the gauges read correct ly, after about 10 minutes the right one peggs to full fuel. if I turn o ff the master switch and wait for a few seconds and power up the panel a gain it does the same thing, 10 mintes and the gauge heads towards full. I am guessing it's the sender unit... Any guesses out their???

< BR>Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

.
________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:06 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Deep trouble!! Do what I did. Tell her your building her a new dishwasher. It will be ready soon!! Larry Building Fuse.......Oh, I mean dishwasher!!