Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:37 AM - Re: Rivets: Update on where to buy (Tom and Bren Henderson)
2. 04:28 AM - Re: . Fuel gauge issue.. (Paul Mulwitz)
3. 04:30 AM - Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank (Edward Moody II)
4. 04:47 AM - Re: Top skin material substitution (Edward Moody II)
5. 05:09 AM - Re: . Fuel gauge issue.. ()
6. 05:30 AM - Re: Cheap metal bending brake that works (Clyde Barcus)
7. 05:52 AM - Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air riveter" (Big Gee)
8. 05:58 AM - Re: EGT Question (Noel Loveys)
9. 06:31 AM - Re: Rivets: Update on where to buy (Mike Fothergill)
10. 06:31 AM - Re: Deep trouble!! (N5SL)
11. 06:34 AM - Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air riveter" (Randy Bryant)
12. 06:45 AM - Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air riveter" (Dave Johnson)
13. 07:16 AM - Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air riveter" (B Johnson)
14. 07:24 AM - Re: Firewall (LarryMcFarland)
15. 07:39 AM - Re: Deep trouble!! (Dave and Jan Clay)
16. 07:39 AM - Re: Deep trouble!! (Bill Naumuk)
17. 07:39 AM - Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air riveter" (Edward Moody II)
18. 07:58 AM - Almost half way there (Bill Naumuk)
19. 09:58 AM - Re: Deep trouble!! (Dave Ruddiman)
20. 11:27 AM - Re: Deep trouble!! (Flydog1966@aol.com)
21. 11:36 AM - Re: 601/ Stratus Engine Mount (LarryMcFarland)
22. 12:27 PM - Mid-Atlantic Light Sport Aircraft Show - Sept 16-17 (Jim Pellien)
23. 01:03 PM - Re: 601/ Stratus Engine Mount (Robert Schoenberger)
24. 01:56 PM - Half way there (Bill Naumuk)
25. 02:32 PM - Re: Top skin material substitution (LarryMcFarland)
26. 03:28 PM - Re: On the roll (Jaybannist@cs.com)
27. 03:49 PM - Re: . Fuel gauge issue.. (george may)
28. 04:25 PM - Re: . Fuel gauge issue.. (Paul Mulwitz)
29. 04:56 PM - Oshkosh (Mike Sinclair)
30. 05:12 PM - Re: Deep trouble!! (BobTezyk)
31. 05:35 PM - Re: Oshkosh (Dave)
32. 06:01 PM - Re: On the roll (Bill Naumuk)
33. 08:07 PM - Re: 601/ Stratus Engine Mount (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
34. 08:07 PM - Re: 601/ Stratus Engine Mount (Don Walker)
35. 08:21 PM - 701 elevator trim question (Brian kissinger)
36. 09:38 PM - Stratus engine mount (George Swinford)
37. 10:24 PM - Re: Oshkosh (RURUNY@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets: Update on where to buy |
You're a life saver! :) I've been looking for an alternative source to Zenith
for months now, with no luck. Thanks!
norriedh <norried@shaw.ca> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "norriedh"
There have been posts on this site as well as the Zenith and CH701
Matronics sites about where to buy additional A4 and A5 rivets.
These note that the English-made rivets which are the ones
traditionally recommended as being of best quality were available
from Avdel Division of Textron Canada Ltd, Ph 1-800-268-9947 or (416)
679-0622. These English-made rivets are no longer available from
this source, in fact, these rivets are not made in England any more and in any
case are now not sold anywhere in North America.
However, Textron, above, still sell the A4 and A5 rivets to the same
strength specifications but they are made in Textron's own factory
in China. I talked to one of their technical people and was assured
that the factory does all the necessary testing to ensure the rivets
are up to the spec (Textron's website gives the strength and other
data). Even Zenith source their rivets from Textron above and no
longer even do their own tests on each batch as they once did.
The part numbers and prices are
A4 01604-00412 49.99 CDN per thousand
A5 01604-00514 64.45 CDN per thousand
Textron will take orders online and accept credit card.
These rivets are also available from resellers including Zenith and
others. Ordering direct from Textron is usually cheaper.
The Textron tech said that they have done tests on holes in
overlapping sheets where the holes did not line up. In general, the
rivets wont line up the holes --- apparently the side forces
generated are not too significant -- but he stressed that all the
offset holes will get filled by rivet material (Unless the holes are
way too much out of line). This agrees with my own testing -- I made
overlapping coupons of 6061 sheet -- sometimes two sheets other
times three - with sheet thicknesses varying from .016 to .040 inch -
-- sectioned the riveted coupons -- and found the A5 rivets would
completely fill holes offset up to .020 and sometimes even more -
and the A4 a bit less.
Douglas N
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42736#42736
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: . Fuel gauge issue.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I don't think the sender is smart enough to act this way. The gauge
seems like a better guess.
It is relatively easy to test the sender and gauge separately. If
you disconnect the wires at the gauge (a much easier trick than
disconnecting them at the sender) and look at the resistance between
the sender and ground you should see instantaneous results that don't
change with time. The sender, after all is only a variable resistor
with a value in the order of 100 ohms. If you don't already have a
multimeter you can get a cheep one at Radio Shack that will do fine
for this level of work.
It is relatively easy to replace the gauge. If there is a loose wire
in the cockpit or engine compartment that is also relatively easy to
fix. The last thing you want is to open the wing to get to the
sender or fuel tank ground wire.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 11:29 PM 6/23/2006, you wrote:
>For all you guys with flying Zenith stuff and any other ones that
>use the VDO fuel gauges and senders. My 801 has 120+ hours on her
>and a quirk has reared it ugly head. On initial fireup the gauges
>read correctly, after about 10 minutes the right one peggs to full
>fuel. if I turn off the master switch and wait for a few seconds and
>power up the panel again it does the same thing, 10 mintes and the
>gauge heads towards full. I am guessing it's the sender unit... Any
>guesses out their???
>
>
>Ben Haas
>N801BH
>www.haaspowerair.com
>
>.
-
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" <dredmoody@cox.net>
I don't have the photo you asked for but the way to get a countersunk head
on both ends of a rivet is this. Both sides of the rivet hole ARE
countersunk. You have to select the right length rivet by trial and error
but once you get that right, it isn't difficult. You need a pnuematic rivet
gun and a backrivetting plate. You set the rivet in the hole and secure it
there with rivetting tape. Then turn the work over and set the taped head
down on the backrivetting plate. Use a flush rivet driver attachment on the
rivet gun to hammer the formed head into the countersink space. If you don't
have these tools, find a guy who has built an RV6, 7, or 8 and ask him about
the trailing edge rivets in his rudder. They are done exactly this way.
Hope that helps,
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
>
> Can someone send me a picture of one of the aileron bellcranks that will
> explain the riveted spacer assembly on 6W10-1&2. The side view drawing of
> the spacer and bellcrank showing countersunk rivets does not make sense to
> me. Looks like both the shop-head and factory-head are both countersunk on
> each rivet. Is this correct? How does one do this?
>
> Kevin Bonds
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Top skin material substitution |
I'm fairly sure that the wing skins in my kit are .025 6061T-6 bare. I
believe there's no problem with that.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom and Bren Henderson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 6:35 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Top skin material substitution
I hate .016 aluminum. It dimples too easily, it's damned noisy,
and our CNC punches like to eat it for lunch. That being said, has
anyone replaced the Middle or Rear top skins (6-B-21-6 and 7 on the XL)
with .025 aluminum? I understand the weight issue, especially that far
from the CG, but did anyone encounter any other issues that might not be
so readily apparent?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: . Fuel gauge issue.. |
Ben
If the wire from the sender unit is broken the fuel guage will peg
on the full side.
This happens because the sender unit has variable resistance from zero
ohms empty to about 180 ohms when full (maybe 165 ...don't have the data
sheet handy). Anyway a broken sender wire is infinite ohms so you will
read a pegged guage on the full side. The guage is likely OK. Check
the wire first.
Gary Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: n801bh@netzero.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: . Fuel gauge issue..
For all you guys with flying Zenith stuff and any other ones that use
the VDO fuel gauges and senders. My 801 has 120+ hours on her and a
quirk has reared it ugly head. On initial fireup the gauges read
correctly, after about 10 minutes the right one peggs to full fuel. if I
turn off the master switch and wait for a few seconds and power up the
panel again it does the same thing, 10 mintes and the gauge heads
towards full. I am guessing it's the sender unit... Any guesses out
their???
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cheap metal bending brake that works |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clyde Barcus" <barcusc@comcast.net>
Dave,
Nice job on the brake! Please email me the file.
Thanks
Clyde Barcus
601XL, Corvair Powered
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 11:44 AM
> If anyone needs an inexpensive bending brake that actually works go to the
> CH601XL group on yahoo. I've posted plans for an all metal 8 foot brake
> that
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air riveter" |
all below is true, but, does it have to be that complicated? Are you saying you
can't "set" a rivet with a hammer, "drift pin", "anvil" ??? How did the "old
timers" do it prior to the aviailabiliy of air driven tools ??
Fritz
Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II"
I don't have the photo you asked for but the way to get a countersunk head
on both ends of a rivet is this. Both sides of the rivet hole ARE
countersunk. You have to select the right length rivet by trial and error
but once you get that right, it isn't difficult. You need a pnuematic rivet
gun and a backrivetting plate. You set the rivet in the hole and secure it
there with rivetting tape. Then turn the work over and set the taped head
down on the backrivetting plate. Use a flush rivet driver attachment on the
rivet gun to hammer the formed head into the countersink space. If you don't
have these tools, find a guy who has built an RV6, 7, or 8 and ask him about
the trailing edge rivets in his rudder. They are done exactly this way.
Hope that helps,
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
>
> Can someone send me a picture of one of the aileron bellcranks that will
> explain the riveted spacer assembly on 6W10-1&2. The side view drawing of
> the spacer and bellcrank showing countersunk rivets does not make sense to
> me. Looks like both the shop-head and factory-head are both countersunk on
> each rivet. Is this correct? How does one do this?
>
> Kevin Bonds
---------------------------------
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Message 8
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|
To me it all depends on why. If you are installing an engine monitor or
FADEC on your Corvair then the only way to go is with the six probes.
Mounting them sounds like it can be fun. If you're only planning on
gauges
you're going to need a big panel to mount at least three double gauges.
Why
bother? You won't have time to read them any way. Sight differences in
the
gauges will worry you half to death when you should be flying the plane
So if it's going to be gauges I would locate the hottest cylinder with a
laser thermometer and use that cylinder for CHT and run a dual EGT, one
from
each manifold. I'll bet that if you check with the guys on the list if
there is one cylinder, in the back which will usually run hotter than
the
others.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Lindstrom
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 6:53 PM
Hi, Larry.
I, too, wanted to use 6 egt probes on the Corvair. But upon looking at
the
exhaust manifold, there jus ain't enough room to do it properly with the
quick radius bend. So I'm settling for one on each side. So I'll have
dual
CHT, and dual EGT. Should be enough.
Best,
Rick Lindstrom
LHusky@aol.com wrote:
I need a general concenses on EGT probes. I am putting a Corvair in my
XL
and I am wondering if I should go with 6 EGT probes or just one on each
manifold? I belive 6 would give me better detection of a problem in a
specific cylinder, but one probe in the right place would also detect a
problem on one side of the engine. What do you think?
Larry Husky
601XL
Building fuse!!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rivets: Update on where to buy |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
I had no trouble in picking up 500 of each of the rivet sizes last month
at Textron.
Mike
UHS Spinners
norriedh wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "norriedh" <norried@shaw.ca>
>
> There have been posts on this site as well as the Zenith and CH701
> Matronics sites about where to buy additional A4 and A5 rivets.
> These note that the English-made rivets which are the ones
> traditionally recommended as being of best quality were available
> from Avdel Division of Textron Canada Ltd, Ph 1-800-268-9947 or (416)
> 679-0622. These English-made rivets are no longer available from
> this source, in fact, these rivets are not made in England any more and in any
case are now not sold anywhere in North America.
>
> However, Textron, above, still sell the A4 and A5 rivets to the same
> strength specifications but they are made in Textron's own factory
> in China. I talked to one of their technical people and was assured
> that the factory does all the necessary testing to ensure the rivets
> are up to the spec (Textron's website gives the strength and other
> data). Even Zenith source their rivets from Textron above and no
> longer even do their own tests on each batch as they once did.
>
> The part numbers and prices are
>
> A4 01604-00412 49.99 CDN per thousand
> A5 01604-00514 64.45 CDN per thousand
>
> Textron will take orders online and accept credit card.
>
> These rivets are also available from resellers including Zenith and
> others. Ordering direct from Textron is usually cheaper.
>
> The Textron tech said that they have done tests on holes in
> overlapping sheets where the holes did not line up. In general, the
> rivets wont line up the holes --- apparently the side forces
> generated are not too significant -- but he stressed that all the
> offset holes will get filled by rivet material (Unless the holes are
> way too much out of line). This agrees with my own testing -- I made
> overlapping coupons of 6061 sheet -- sometimes two sheets other
> times three - with sheet thicknesses varying from .016 to .040 inch -
> -- sectioned the riveted coupons -- and found the A5 rivets would
> completely fill holes offset up to .020 and sometimes even more -
> and the A4 a bit less.
>
> Douglas N
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42736#42736
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Deep trouble!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Jerome:
I too have a friend, Boudreaux who had an old mule. A
few years ago he married a young bride. As he was
leaving the church in his buggy still with rice in his
hair, young bride by his side, the mule started acting
up. Boudreaux yells "Mule, that's ONE!" The mule
straightened up and trotted along down the road. A
few minutes later the mule started misbehaving and Boo
shouts "Mule, that's TWO!" The mule then dutifully
trotted pulling the cart.
Sure enough, a short time later the mule is back to
his old tricks. Boo jumps up and shouts "Mule, that's
THREE!" then pulls out his shot gun and kills the mule
dead right there. Seeing this, his young bride starts
histerically screaming "why did you do that?" and to
that Boo yells "Wife, that's One!"
Scott Laughlin
Friend of Boo
Do Not Archive
--- jsimons2 <jsimons4@triad.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2"
> <jsimons4@triad.rr.com>
>
> Hi all,
> I believe that I am in deep sh**. Today I
> ordered my plans
__________________________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air riveter" |
I don't have pictures of my aileron bellcrank right now to post, but
what I did was to counter sink both sides/blocks/spacers, put the rivet
through the holes, lay the flat head of the rivet on an anvil, and smash
the other end with a small ball peen hammer... Looks great... I'm
happy with the way it turned out...
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Big Gee
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air
riveter"
all below is true, but, does it have to be that complicated? Are you
saying you can't "set" a rivet with a hammer, "drift pin", "anvil" ???
How did the "old timers" do it prior to the aviailabiliy of air driven
tools ??
Fritz
Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II"
I don't have the photo you asked for but the way to get a
countersunk head
on both ends of a rivet is this. Both sides of the rivet hole ARE
countersunk. You have to select the right length rivet by trial and
error
but once you get that right, it isn't difficult. You need a
pnuematic rivet
gun and a backrivetting plate. You set the rivet in the hole and
secure it
there with rivetting tape. Then turn the work over and set the taped
head
down on the backrivetting plate. Use a flush rivet driver attachment
on the
rivet gun to hammer the formed head into the countersink space. If
you don't
have these tools, find a guy who has built an RV6, 7, or 8 and ask
him about
the trailing edge rivets in his rudder. They are done exactly this
way.
Hope that helps,
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
>
> Can someone send me a picture of one of the aileron bellcranks
that will
> explain the riveted spacer assembly on 6W10-1&2. The side view
drawing of
> the spacer and bellcrank showing countersunk rivets does not make
sense to
> me. Looks like both the shop-head and factory-head are both
countersunk on
> each rivet. Is this correct? How does one do this?
>
> Kevin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
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call rates.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air riveter" |
I had the same problem - also the solid rivets on the brake pedals.
I just squeezed the rivets in a bench vice with a couple of sheets of
scrap ali. to avoid marking the surfaces.
Dave Johnson
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Big Gee
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air
riveter"
all below is true, but, does it have to be that complicated? Are you
saying you can't "set" a rivet with a hammer, "drift pin", "anvil" ???
How did the "old timers" do it prior to the aviailabiliy of air driven
tools ??
Fritz
Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II"
I don't have the photo you asked for but the way to get a
countersunk head
on both ends of a rivet is this. Both sides of the rivet hole ARE
countersunk. You have to select the right length rivet by trial and
error
but once you get that right, it isn't difficult. You need a
pnuematic rivet
gun and a backrivetting plate. You set the rivet in the hole and
secure it
there with rivetting tape. Then turn the work over and set the taped
head
down on the backrivetting plate. Use a flush rivet driver attachment
on the
rivet gun to hammer the formed head into the countersink space. If
you don't
have these tools, find a guy who has built an RV6, 7, or 8 and ask
him about
the trailing edge rivets in his rudder. They are done exactly this
way.
Hope that helps,
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
>
> Can someone send me a picture of one of the aileron bellcranks
that will
> explain the riveted spacer assembly on 6W10-1&2. The side view
drawing of
> the spacer and bellcrank showing countersunk rivets does not make
sense to
> me. Looks like both the shop-head and factory-head are both
countersunk on
> each rivet. Is this correct? How does one do this?
>
> Kevin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
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Message 13
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| Subject: | scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air riveter" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "B Johnson" <bjohnson@satx.rr.com>
You CAN set solid rivets with a hammer, I set hundred of them on the wing
spar of my Sonex. Polish the head of a bolt & use that between the hammer
and the rivet. With very little practice your buckn rivets
Bruce
________________________________________
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Johnson
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 8:41 AM
I had the same problem - also the solid rivets on the brake pedals.
I just squeezed the rivets in a bench vice with a couple of sheets of scrap
ali. to avoid marking the surfaces.
Dave Johnson
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 1:48 PM
all below is true, but, does it have to be that complicated? Are you
saying you can't "set" a rivet with a hammer,"driftpin","anvil"??? How
did the "old timers" do it prior to the aviailabiliy of air driven tools
??
Fritz
Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II"
I don't have the photo you asked for but the way to get a countersunk head
on both ends of a rivet is this. Both sides of the rivet hole ARE
countersunk. You have to select the right length rivet by trial and error
but once you get that right, it isn't difficult. You need a pnuematic rivet
gun and a backrivetting plate. You set the rivet in the hole and secure it
there with rivetting tape. Then turn the work over and set the taped head
down on the backrivetting plate. Use a flush rivet driver attachment on the
rivet gun to hammer the formed head into the countersink space. If you don't
have these tools, find a guy who has built an RV6, 7, or 8 and ask him about
the trailing edge rivets in his rudder. They are done exactly this way.
Hope that helps,
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
>
> Can someone send me a picture of one of the aileron bellcranks that will
> explain the riveted spacer assembly on 6W10-1&2. The side view drawing of
> the spacer and bellcrank showing countersunk rivets does not make sense to
> me. Looks like both the shop-head and factory-head are both countersunk on
> each rivet. Is this correct? How does one do this?
>
> Kevin
________________________________________
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Kevin,
I put a .015 stainless steel firewall in because the material
recommended in the plans is too weak to be called structural and for
mounting pumps, etc, you
need better surface. The stainless is really tough, but I'm glad I did it.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
>
>Regarding plans building an XL, I am looking ahead trying to make some decisions.
Hope you guys and gals can help me out in hte next few emails (broken up
to make them more searchable). (1) Back many months ago I seem to remember some
talk about using thicker material for the firewall. For those of you flying,
has the 18 gauge steel for the firewall seemed sufficient? Noticed in the archives
one builder went with stainless steel. Is this a good idea? Stiffer? Better
heat resistance in a fire?
>
>Kevin Bonds
>http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Deep trouble!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay" <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
Hey Jerome,
I just reminded my sweet wife of all those great trips we could take in our
own airplane and she was sold. In fact, if she thinks I'm not spending
enough time building she gets on my case.
Dave
_________________________________________________________________
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Deep trouble!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Just hope you can finish the plane before you can't qualify for a driver's
license.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:25 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" <jsimons4@triad.rr.com>
>
> Hi all,
> I believe that I am in deep sh**. Today I ordered my plans for a Zodiac
> CH 601 HDS without telling my wife that I was even near ordering plans.
> How much longer do I have to live? (Read as "How long does it take for the
> plans to arrive?") How long do I have to get the dog house in order and
> liveable? HELLLLLLLLLP!!!
>
> Jerome
> Almost a "scrap" builder (if I live)
> Just waiting on plans now.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42704#42704
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air riveter" |
Nothing of the sort. It can definitely be done with a hammer and anvil.
It's just a bit easier to control the result if you have the tools
mentioned and/or access to an RV guy who's done it a zillion times
already. There are a lot of RVs out there so I figured the odds were in
favor of you having some help from that direction. I mean honestly, you
can't swing a dead cat in this area without hitting one of them.
As for old timers? I honestly don't know. I came along too late to
experience that and it's an area of history I haven't pondered. What I
do know is that scratch builders are some ingenious mothers and if one
of them says it works, it probably does.
Ed
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Big Gee
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: scratchbuilt aileron bellcrank/ "air
riveter"
all below is true, but, does it have to be that complicated? Are you
saying you can't "set" a rivet with a hammer, "drift pin", "anvil" ???
How did the "old timers" do it prior to the aviailabiliy of air driven
tools ??
Fritz
Message 18
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| Subject: | Almost half way there |
All-
Thanks for your responses, almost half-way to 25. Keep it coming!
There IS a common thread (At least so far), so I think there's a
good chance that SA will pick up the article. This is YOUR story,
people!
How about some international input? Contact me off-list for the
questionnaire if you haven't seen it yet.
I'm actually workiing on my project for the first time in nearly a
month. My center wing is jigged up and level for the addition of some
pieces, and right in front of my table saw. Figured I'd finish that work
off before moving the table saw upstairs so I could install the
pegboard/particle board in the garanger.
Bill
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Deep trouble!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Hey Dave,
Does your wife have a sister like her that I could trade my wife for?
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 7:36 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave and Jan Clay"
> <dclaytx2@hotmail.com>
>
> Hey Jerome,
>
> I just reminded my sweet wife of all those great trips we could take in
> our own airplane and she was sold. In fact, if she thinks I'm not spending
> enough time building she gets on my case.
>
> Dave
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Deep trouble!! |
Make the dog house big enough for a 12 foot work bench.
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 601/ Stratus Engine Mount |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi George,
I had something similar, not quite off half a hole diameter, same place,
but I made it closely to Zenith provided drawings. Could be that the
Stratus mounts have us out of position by a small amount? It still is
not the fit I'd like either, but it just does and one day I'll pull the
engine and reweld the hole and drill it down where it should be.
Or remake the Stratus mount to get the adjustment. I've already made a
new right upper Stratus mount and it fits fine.
Larry McFarland
George Swinford wrote:
> Yesterday I tried to hang the Stratus EA81 on my Zodiac 601. Three of
> the four mount bolts went in smoothly, but the lower left hand mount
> bolt misses the hole in the mount by almost the whole diameter of the
> bolt. No way can I shift things around or deflect the legs of the
> mount to get the bolt in. Another local builder had the same problem,
> but was able to force a fit. Has anyone else on the list had this
> problem?
>
> I bought my firewall-forward kit, including the engine mount, in
> 2000. The mount mated up with the firewall, no sweat. In response to
> other builder's reports of cracking lugs on the firewall end of the
> mount, I had gussets added to those lugs. Since three of the engine
> mounts line up, I doubt that welding induced enough distortion to
> create my current problem. I did modify the mount, so I'm reluctant
> to throw the blame on the factory, although I suspect that's where it
> belongs.
>
> Thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions.
>
> George
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Mid-Atlantic Light Sport Aircraft Show - Sept 16-17 |
Hello,
You should definitely plan to go to the Mid-Atlantic Light Sport Aircraft
Show on Sept 16-17 at the Sky Bryce Airport in Basye, VA. This show is
completely focused on and dedicated to the new Light Sport Aircraft, nothing
else. The show is co-sponsored by the Bryce Mountain Resort and Mid-Atlantic
Sports Planes. All proceeds from the show go towards the maintenance of the
Sky Bryce Airport.
We will be holding this show twice per year show, once in the Fall and once
in the Spring. Make sure you are present at the 1st show of its kind in the
Mid-Atlantic Region that is solely devoted to light sport aircraft.
All the details of the show are located at:
http://www.maspl.com/FLY-IN.htm
Information on how to sign up for the show and reserve your tiedowns and
display areas are at:
http://www.maspl.com/FLY-IN%20COMMERCIAL%20OPPORTUNITIES.htm
The following are pictures of all 34 SLSA's that have been certified and
listed at the EAA.org webpage.
EXHIBITORS
* Commercial Tie-Down for 2 Day Show (Blacktop): $200
* Commercial Tie-Down for 2 Day Show (Grass): $150
* 10' X 10' Display Space (No tables, chairs or electric
available): $100 for 2 days
Jim Pellien
Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes
Sky Bryce Airport (VG18)
Basye, VA
www.MASPL.com
703-313-4818
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 601/ Stratus Engine Mount |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
I've never mounted an engine to an airframe, but I remember some
correspondence on this list some 2 or so years ago where builders forced a
fit and later cracks were discovered in the supporting frame due to the
stressed condition. Just a thought to be concerned about. Robert
Schoenberger 701
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 2:32 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Hi George,
> I had something similar, not quite off half a hole diameter, same place,
> but I made it closely to Zenith provided drawings. Could be that the
> Stratus mounts have us out of position by a small amount? It still is not
> the fit I'd like either, but it just does and one day I'll pull the engine
> and reweld the hole and drill it down where it should be.
> Or remake the Stratus mount to get the adjustment. I've already made a
> new right upper Stratus mount and it fits fine.
>
> Larry McFarland
>
> George Swinford wrote:
>
>> Yesterday I tried to hang the Stratus EA81 on my Zodiac 601. Three of the
>> four mount bolts went in smoothly, but the lower left hand mount bolt
>> misses the hole in the mount by almost the whole diameter of the bolt.
>> No way can I shift things around or deflect the legs of the mount to get
>> the bolt in. Another local builder had the same problem, but was able to
>> force a fit. Has anyone else on the list had this problem?
>> I bought my firewall-forward kit, including the engine mount, in 2000.
>> The mount mated up with the firewall, no sweat. In response to other
>> builder's reports of cracking lugs on the firewall end of the mount, I
>> had gussets added to those lugs. Since three of the engine mounts line
>> up, I doubt that welding induced enough distortion to create my current
>> problem. I did modify the mount, so I'm reluctant to throw the blame on
>> the factory, although I suspect that's where it belongs. Thanks in
>> advance for any helpful suggestions. George
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 24
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All-
We're past the half-way point. Keep 'em coming. Looks like this may
work- a definite pattern is showing up, which is what I (And I'm sure
SA) were hoping for.
Bill
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Top skin material substitution |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Tom,
I've got a 601HDS that has generally replaced .016 with .020 on bottom
skins, .025 on the wing skins and top skins. Exceptions are elevator,
rudder and ailerons.
Nothing so heavy as to upset my weight at all. The appearance improved
with thicker skins, fit better, don't oil can as much and the plane
looks more solid than the
light aircraft it is.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Tom and Bren Henderson wrote:
> I hate .016 aluminum. It dimples too easily, it's damned noisy,
> and our CNC punches like to eat it for lunch. That being said, has
> anyone replaced the Middle or Rear top skins (6-B-21-6 and 7 on the
> XL) with .025 aluminum? I understand the weight issue, especially
> that far from the CG, but did anyone encounter any other issues that
> might not be so readily apparent?
>
Message 26
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Answers to questionnaire:
SETTING THE STAGE
1. No
2. No
3. NA
4. About a month
5. Don't know
6. Don't know
7. No
8. I was made aware of it thru ZAC website & it looked useful right away.
DAY TO DAY
1. About once a week
2. Specific, not social
3. ~10%
4. Technical
CRUNCH TIME
I have handled my screw-ups either with ZAC or with my EAA tech advisor.
Some, I just figured out myself. I avoided a few by reviewing several of the
builders' websites on ZAC's website. Only on one was I totally devastated. I
didn't get over it until I had worked out a solution with my tech advisor, about
a day. I actually came up withe the solution, but this was facilitated by
the interaction and discussion.
Problems attributable to ZAC are somewhat frustrating, but they always come
through, so I don't get really upset.
BOTTOM LINE
1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: . Fuel gauge issue.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
I am guessing it's the sender unit... Any guesses out their???
Have you tried swapping the wiring to the senders---left to right right to
left. If the problem follows the switch it's the sender, if not its
probably the guage
George May
_________________________________________________________________
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: . Fuel gauge issue.. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
One unpleasant possibility comes to mind. It is a faulty ground
between the sender and aircraft structure.
This ground must be accomplished with two separate tricks. First the
connection between the main plate of the sender must be connected to
the gas tank by insuring electrical contact through one or more of
the mounting screws. Second, the tank must be grounded to the
aircraft frame with a wire. If these are not properly done then the
sender circuit is not completed.
Another way to do this is to weld a tab to the sender plate and run a
ground wire from this to either the airframe or to the gauge.
These are unpleasant possibilities because the wing skin must be
opened to get access to the sender to correct them.
Paul
XL fuselage
>I am guessing it's the sender unit... Any guesses out their???
>
>
>Have you tried swapping the wiring to the senders---left to right
>right to left. If the problem follows the switch it's the
>sender, if not its probably the guage
>
>George May
>
>_
Message 29
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
A question for those Zenith drivers that have flown in. Where do the 701's congregate?
1988 was the last year that I made it to Oshkosh. Only got to stay one
day since the wife (thankfully has now been "ex" for quite some time) wasn't
happy. Myself and another 701 driver from the Wichita area intend to be going
that way this year. Have heard varying opinions as to where they ought to go.
One even said the 701's should go to the ultralight area (and performance wise
can put most ultralights to shame on
short field, leaving or arriving) and others say homebuilt area. We intend to camp
under the wings at this point, subject to a better situation. It's been long
enough since I've been there and I've had little to no experience flying into
this sort of congestion and would appreciate any suggestions.We've got a copy
of the notam and new charts. Flight planning has begun. Is there a gathering
of Zeniths? Yehaaaa!
Mike Sinclair N701TD
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Deep trouble!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "BobTezyk" <bob@eaglesnestestates.org>
If you are lucky, you will only have to endure a round of retaliatory spending.
If you are not, she will buff your gonads with 60 grit sand paper one night
this week.
Bob :lol:
--------
Regards,
Bob Tezyk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42849#42849
Message 31
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave" <daberti@sbcglobal.net>
Get the Oshkosh Notam!!! And for camping under the wing they will put you in
"Homebuilt Camping" The Notam will fill you in on the sign you need for the
ground crews. My 601 will be in "Homebuilt Parking" (you can't camp there)
Dave 601-HD 912ULS
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
Sinclair
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 6:52 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
A question for those Zenith drivers that have flown in. Where do the 701's
congregate? 1988 was the last year that I made it to Oshkosh. Only got to
stay one day since the wife (thankfully has now been "ex" for quite some
time) wasn't happy. Myself and another 701 driver from the Wichita area
intend to be going that way this year. Have heard varying opinions as to
where they ought to go. One even said the 701's should go to the ultralight
area (and performance wise can put most ultralights to shame on
short field, leaving or arriving) and others say homebuilt area. We intend
to camp under the wings at this point, subject to a better situation. It's
been long enough since I've been there and I've had little to no experience
flying into this sort of congestion and would appreciate any
suggestions.We've got a copy of the notam and new charts. Flight planning
has begun. Is there a gathering of Zeniths? Yehaaaa!
Mike Sinclair N701TD
Message 32
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|
Thank, Jay.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: On the roll
Answers to questionnaire:
SETTING THE STAGE
1. No
2. No
3. NA
4. About a month
5. Don't know
6. Don't know
7. No
8. I was made aware of it thru ZAC website & it looked useful right
away.
DAY TO DAY
1. About once a week
2. Specific, not social
3. ~10%
4. Technical
CRUNCH TIME
I have handled my screw-ups either with ZAC or with my EAA tech
advisor. Some, I just figured out myself. I avoided a few by reviewing
several of the builders' websites on ZAC's website. Only on one was I
totally devastated. I didn't get over it until I had worked out a
solution with my tech advisor, about a day. I actually came up withe
the solution, but this was facilitated by the interaction and
discussion.
Problems attributable to ZAC are somewhat frustrating, but they always
come through, so I don't get really upset.
BOTTOM LINE
1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Do not archive
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | 601/ Stratus Engine Mount |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
My engine mount was way off too...But to the fireall not the engine.
I would call Zac and ask 'em to sort it out. You paid a lot of money for
that mount and it really has to be right.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Schoenberger
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 12:59 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger"
--> <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
I've never mounted an engine to an airframe, but I remember some
correspondence on this list some 2 or so years ago where builders forced
a fit and later cracks were discovered in the supporting frame due to
the stressed condition. Just a thought to be concerned about. Robert
Schoenberger 701
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 2:32 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
<larry@macsmachine.com>
>
> Hi George,
> I had something similar, not quite off half a hole diameter, same
place,
> but I made it closely to Zenith provided drawings. Could be that the
> Stratus mounts have us out of position by a small amount? It still is
not
> the fit I'd like either, but it just does and one day I'll pull the
engine
> and reweld the hole and drill it down where it should be.
> Or remake the Stratus mount to get the adjustment. I've already made
a
> new right upper Stratus mount and it fits fine.
>
> Larry McFarland
>
> George Swinford wrote:
>
>> Yesterday I tried to hang the Stratus EA81 on my Zodiac 601. Three of
the
>> four mount bolts went in smoothly, but the lower left hand mount bolt
>> misses the hole in the mount by almost the whole diameter of the
bolt.
>> No way can I shift things around or deflect the legs of the mount to
get
>> the bolt in. Another local builder had the same problem, but was
able to
>> force a fit. Has anyone else on the list had this problem?
>> I bought my firewall-forward kit, including the engine mount, in
2000.
>> The mount mated up with the firewall, no sweat. In response to other
>> builder's reports of cracking lugs on the firewall end of the mount,
I
>> had gussets added to those lugs. Since three of the engine mounts
line
>> up, I doubt that welding induced enough distortion to create my
current
>> problem. I did modify the mount, so I'm reluctant to throw the
blame on
>> the factory, although I suspect that's where it belongs. Thanks in
>> advance for any helpful suggestions. George
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: 601/ Stratus Engine Mount |
Mine, too, which I received in 1997. Just about 1/8th inch off. I
enlarged a hole a bit and made it fit...390 hours ago. All seems okay.
don walker
----- Original Message -----
From: LarryMcFarland<mailto:larry@macsmachine.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601/ Stratus Engine Mount
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
<larry@macsmachine.com<mailto:larry@macsmachine.com>>
Hi George,
I had something similar, not quite off half a hole diameter, same
place,
but I made it closely to Zenith provided drawings. Could be that the
Stratus mounts have us out of position by a small amount? It still is
not the fit I'd like either, but it just does and one day I'll pull
the
engine and reweld the hole and drill it down where it should be.
Or remake the Stratus mount to get the adjustment. I've already made
a
new right upper Stratus mount and it fits fine.
Larry McFarland
George Swinford wrote:
> Yesterday I tried to hang the Stratus EA81 on my Zodiac 601. Three
of
> the four mount bolts went in smoothly, but the lower left hand mount
> bolt misses the hole in the mount by almost the whole diameter of
the
> bolt. No way can I shift things around or deflect the legs of the
> mount to get the bolt in. Another local builder had the same
problem,
> but was able to force a fit. Has anyone else on the list had this
> problem?
>
> I bought my firewall-forward kit, including the engine mount, in
> 2000. The mount mated up with the firewall, no sweat. In response
to
> other builder's reports of cracking lugs on the firewall end of the
> mount, I had gussets added to those lugs. Since three of the engine
> mounts line up, I doubt that welding induced enough distortion to
> create my current problem. I did modify the mount, so I'm
reluctant
> to throw the blame on the factory, although I suspect that's where
it
> belongs.
>
> Thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions.
>
> George
>
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Message 35
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| Subject: | 701 elevator trim question |
Greetings all:
New to the list...1st time posting. I just riveted shut my elevator tonight
(Zenith 701)and started looking through the photo assemblies and drawings for
the next steps. I don't see anywhere how to install the elevator trim system
other than in drawing 7-ETO-1. When are we supposed to do this? Frustration
sets in :)
Thanks in advance for your tips.
Cheers,
Brian "Brain" Kissinger
www.brainsflight.com
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Message 36
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| Subject: | Stratus engine mount |
I'm getting some good responses to my question/complaint about the
engine mount. Thanks to everyone who has responded so far.
Don, the misaligned hole in my mount is about 5/16 out, too much to
correct by enlarging the hole. Frank, I agree that Zenith should make
it right, but I don't expect they will, based on previous experience. I
can get it to a certified aircraft welder who has built a steel tube
airframe of his own, and so knows the problems. Near his shop there is
a place which will bead blast it clean and ready to prime after welding.
I can get it done and back on the airplane in a few days, and move on.
I'm guessing that you won't have such problems with Van.
George
Do Not Archive
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Dave,
I camped under the wing at Oshkosh in 2002 and 2004 for 6 days each time. I
was in the
vintage acft area and was right by the ultralight field both times. The one
thing nice about
being there was that the demo 701 flew there all the time over our camping
spot.
The only 701 there though was the demo, all others were in the homebuilt
parking or the homebuilt camping area. They were not really grouped together in
the camping area but scattered about. They are grouped together by make in the
homebuilt parking.
I hope you get to stay longer this time, it is lots of fun staying for the
week especially
with a friend who is interested. I know how the wife gets at airshows for a
few hours
and would not last more than a day at Oshkosh. Have a great time!
Brian
Long Island
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