Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:08 AM - more fuel sender plate/hole (Zed Smith)
2. 06:22 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Robin Bellach)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Michael Valentine)
4. 06:50 AM - Re:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works (Schemmel, Grant)
5. 07:02 AM - Gas tank fixed, Back in the air (Jon Croke)
6. 07:18 AM - Re: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
7. 07:38 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Paul Mulwitz)
8. 07:46 AM - Re: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air (Dave Ruddiman)
9. 08:07 AM - Remove me from your e-mail thanks (Raymond D. Worley)
10. 08:14 AM - Re: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air (Jon Croke)
11. 08:24 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Phil Maxson)
12. 08:28 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Randy Bryant)
13. 08:49 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued ()
14. 09:30 AM - First flight video (Zed Smith)
15. 09:36 AM - Re: Re:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works (NYTerminat@aol.com)
16. 10:06 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Robin Bellach)
17. 12:20 PM - Re: CH701 wing strut attachement vs. Savannah accident (Chuck Deiterich)
18. 12:51 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Bryan Martin)
19. 02:46 PM - Picked up Fuselage, Wheels and Controls (Scott Thatcher)
20. 02:49 PM - Jabiru 3300 (Sept) and Corvair(Oct) FWF classes in Cloverdale, CA (Craig Payne)
21. 04:16 PM - Re: New Site (David Barth)
22. 04:16 PM - XL engine mount fittings (Jaybannist@cs.com)
23. 05:12 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Jay Herron)
24. 05:48 PM - Re: XL engine mount fittings (Al Young)
25. 06:20 PM - Re: XL engine mount fittings (Jaybannist@cs.com)
26. 06:35 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Impossible (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
27. 06:38 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Winston Ellis)
28. 06:50 PM - Re: XL engine mount fittings (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
29. 07:32 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Impossible (Robin Bellach)
30. 07:32 PM - Re: Re:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works (Roger Roy)
31. 07:39 PM - Brake Plans (Zodie Rocket)
32. 07:42 PM - Re: XL engine mount fittings (Craig Payne)
33. 07:46 PM - BaCK TO FLIGHT (Zodie Rocket)
34. 08:00 PM - Re: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air (Roger Venables)
35. 08:14 PM - Re: New Site (kevinbonds@comcast.net)
36. 11:46 PM - Seailing AN6 fittings, and length of fuel hose (Roger Venables)
Message 1
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| Subject: | more fuel sender plate/hole |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
All previous posts are absolutely correct.
However......if you are not comfortable with trying to enlarge the hole then you
can reduce the ring.
Simply clamp it in a vise, saw out about one-quarter-inch of the "notch" in the
ring, smooth the cut with a small file, and presto, fits well.
You'll still have to use safety wire, string, magic, luck, etc, to get all the
screws in place.
Only problem is the "spacing" of the screws. Mark the sender and the ring so you
know which way is north; it'll only fit one way.
Regards,
Zed
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
I got mine in by grinding them down a bit on the outside opposite the
cutout, but your picture makes that look impossible. Is it some sort of
optical illusion or is the hole a lot smaller than the inside diameter of
the backing plate? As for the top, the way my fit it seems impossible to
grind enough off the top to fit below the skin so I'm planning some domed or
bubbled cover plates as others have done..
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:38 PM
> So I have my hole for the sender (older style sender - top mount).
> And, thanks to earlier comments from the group, I think I know how
> much I can shave off to make it fit under the skin.
>
> Now, how on earth do I get the backing plate in there? As you can
> see from the pictures, it ain't goin' through that hole. I see from
> the photo guide that the new senders have split rings that can slide
> in. Can I cut this one? Or, should I drop it through the gas cap and
> fish it out. Of course, if I do that, then it is not coming back out
> later (at least not easily or close thereto) unless I remove the tank.
>
> Anyone else find a good solution?
>
> Thanks, Michael Valentine
> Still almost done with the first wing.
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Continued |
Thanks for the quick responses. The sender instructions I have call for the
hole to be (I believe without having it in front of me) much less than 59mm
- I am remembering 48mm or 43mm - either way it is the same diameter as the
inner circle of the ring. I understand the principle of the notch in the
ring, but according to the instructions I have (and think I have followed),
the hole is still too small. Note here that this is a sender sent with a
wing kit in 2003 - I know from the pictures that it is not exactly the same
as those used today, but I don't know all the differences.
So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I can use the notch in the
side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense to me even though I don't
believe it is how my sender instructions read.
If that is the case, is there any reason I can't just cut a notch in the
side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire hole? Sort of an abrubt
oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a notch clear through the
ring. Then I could slide the skin through notch, lower the ring in, and
slide it back off the skin inside. From the new photo guide it appears that
the new ring is split and a similar technique is used - I can't imagine that
a 2mm notch in the ring is going to cause problems securely clamping the
gasket on the other side. Thoughts or concerns with this solution. (I
continue to ask about this possibility because it seems to be much easier
than enlarging the entire hole. Going back with a flycutter by hand after I
have removed the center of the hole does not usually produce very clean
results, which I obviously need here!)
Thanks again for the help. Nice to have people like Ed at a very similar
building stage!
Michael
On 6/27/06, Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net> wrote:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" < dredmoody@cox.net>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Let me add a bit to what Paul told you (it's fresh in mind because I just
> did it). The hole diameter called for is 59 mm. Don't make it any bigger
> than that because there is very little of the inner ring overlapping the
> edge at that diameter. If you open it much bigger, you won't have much of
> the edge to squeeze on with the inner ring.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant" <Grant.Schemmel@Aeroflex.com>
Hi Bob,
I actually picked up the kit as a partially completed project a couple of years
ago, where the fuselage structure was complete and (sort-of) on the main gear.
I had to basically ignore it up until about now, as I've had other priorities.
However, recently bought a hanger, and am getting ready to move my aircraft
factory out there from my garage. Hopefully I can really get started on it
then.
Pretty simple construction compared to a Zodie though, as it's all bent up 2x2
al. angles. At this point I just have the fuselage, empennage, and the wing spars
as I was intending to build the metal version of the wings. Maybe Jim Bede's
latest incarnation that uses al. honeycomb panels as ribs with a bonded skin.
After some consideration, I think I'm going to try and lengthen the fuselage
by maybe 12" to add enough rear seat legroom for real people/cargo, and I'm
sure that's going to take awhile. I guess you could say I'm semi-scratch building.
Planning on using a turbocharged Mazda 13B rotary engine to power it, unless I
chicken out and opt for maybe an O-470.
I'm not working with TVA, as this is an original kit from the 70's, and TVA has
made a number of changes to the design - enough that I don't think the parts
would fit together. I have a friend out here who has been working on a TVA kit,
and it looks really nice, though he seems to be waiting a long time for parts
kits to be ready. Can't say much about TVA's support, other than what I've
heard second hand. I can put you in touch with the guy if you'd like.
Have fun.
Grant
Time: 08:04:02 AM PST US
Grant
How do you like working on the BD-4? I am also interested in possibly
building that plane. Are you building a kit or scratch building? How is the factory
support and the plans? Are you going with a auto conversion or certified
engine? Are you working with TVA, and how is their support?
Thanks for your input
Bob Spudis
CH-701/912S 55hrs
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Gas tank fixed, Back in the air |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Thanks to those on the list... my gas tank has been repaired by way of their
advice... it turned out to be easy to do and very secure using the self
sealing rivet and prosealant. Not a drip as I inspect thru a lexan patch in
the bottom of the wing (cant find the nerve to drill rivets for that cover!)
Nice to be back in the air!
There is a wonderful article in this issue of Kitplanes on Frank Hinde's 601
with Subaru engine...detailing his experience of the auto conversion with
the plane. Good aircraft pictures, but no picture of Frank!
For those of you with high speed internet, there is a 3 minute clip of my
1st flite at:
http://www.rrsta.com/homebuilthelp/3Minute1stFLite.asf
Still a smile (maybe it wears off a little after 40 hrs?)
Jon
12hrs N701US
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Gas tank fixed, Back in the air |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
The airplane is better looking than I am...:)
Guess I'll have to go out and buy a copy!
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:00 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Thanks to those on the list... my gas tank has been repaired by way of
their advice... it turned out to be easy to do and very secure using the
self sealing rivet and prosealant. Not a drip as I inspect thru a lexan
patch in the bottom of the wing (cant find the nerve to drill rivets for
that cover!) Nice to be back in the air!
There is a wonderful article in this issue of Kitplanes on Frank Hinde's
601 with Subaru engine...detailing his experience of the auto conversion
with the plane. Good aircraft pictures, but no picture of Frank!
For those of you with high speed internet, there is a 3 minute clip of
my 1st flite at:
http://www.rrsta.com/homebuilthelp/3Minute1stFLite.asf
Still a smile (maybe it wears off a little after 40 hrs?)
Jon
12hrs N701US
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I don't know about the approach you are considering. I know the one
with the proper sized hole works fine. It both allows the ring to be
inserted in the tank and allows for good clamping of the ring for
final installation.
One thing to keep in mind - if you have problems with the sender
installation you have to remove your leading edge skin to get to it
for repairs.
I don't think the fly-cutter is the right way to make this hole and
it certainly won't work to enlarge it. I use a round thin plywood
pattern made the size I want the hole. I then mark the final hole
size with felt tip and cut the hole with a combination of snips and
files. I have tried to explain this approach before and got flamed
and called a "Kit builder" in the past. Still, I think it is the
quickest and easiest way to make a hole in sheet aluminum. In your
case, if you mark the final hole you can probably cut the majority of
the waste metal away in about one minute and file the rest in another
5 or 10 minutes.
Your approach of cutting all the way through the ring sounds
interesting, but I think you will find you need some pretty heavy
tools to cut through that heavy gauge steel. Then you have to figure
out the impact of having the ring cut in the final position.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
At 06:26 AM 6/27/2006, you wrote:
>Thanks for the quick responses. The sender instructions I have call
>for the hole to be (I believe without having it in front of me) much
>less than 59mm - I am remembering 48mm or 43mm - either way it is
>the same diameter as the inner circle of the ring. I understand the
>principle of the notch in the ring, but according to the
>instructions I have (and think I have followed), the hole is still
>too small. Note here that this is a sender sent with a wing kit in
>2003 - I know from the pictures that it is not exactly the same as
>those used today, but I don't know all the differences.
>
>So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I can use the notch in
>the side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense to me even
>though I don't believe it is how my sender instructions read.
>
>If that is the case, is there any reason I can't just cut a notch in
>the side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire hole? Sort of
>an abrubt oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a notch clear
>through the ring. Then I could slide the skin through notch, lower
>the ring in, and slide it back off the skin inside. From the new
>photo guide it appears that the new ring is split and a similar
>technique is used - I can't imagine that a 2mm notch in the ring is
>going to cause problems securely clamping the gasket on the other
>side. Thoughts or concerns with this solution. (I continue to ask
>about this possibility because it seems to be much easier than
>enlarging the entire hole. Going back with a flycutter by hand
>after I have removed the center of the hole does not usually produce
>very clean results, which I obviously need here!)
>
>Thanks again for the help. Nice to have people like Ed at a very
>similar building stage!
>
>Michael
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Jon,
Nice video. Looks like you have been flying that plane for years.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:00 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> Thanks to those on the list... my gas tank has been repaired by way of
> their advice... it turned out to be easy to do and very secure using the
> self sealing rivet and prosealant. Not a drip as I inspect thru a lexan
> patch in the bottom of the wing (cant find the nerve to drill rivets for
> that cover!) Nice to be back in the air!
>
> There is a wonderful article in this issue of Kitplanes on Frank Hinde's
> 601 with Subaru engine...detailing his experience of the auto conversion
> with the plane. Good aircraft pictures, but no picture of Frank!
>
>
> For those of you with high speed internet, there is a 3 minute clip of my
> 1st flite at:
>
> http://www.rrsta.com/homebuilthelp/3Minute1stFLite.asf
>
> Still a smile (maybe it wears off a little after 40 hrs?)
>
> Jon
> 12hrs N701US
>
> do not archive
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Remove me from your e-mail thanks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Raymond D. Worley" <rdworley@zebra.net>
Please remove me from your e-mail list
Raymond D. Worley
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zenith-List
Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 1:59 AM
*
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Zenith-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 06/05/06: 46
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:38 AM - Vs: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com)
2. 01:28 AM - re; Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (fred sanford)
3. 02:19 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Roger)
4. 04:52 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Zodie Rocket)
5. 04:52 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Ashcraft, Keith -AES)
6. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield
(n801bh@netzero.com)
7. 06:04 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings fl
ight! (n801bh@netzero.com)
8. 06:06 AM - Builders photo's (Zodie Rocket)
9. 06:56 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Al Young)
10. 07:07 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (LarryMcFarland)
11. 07:07 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
12. 07:14 AM - Michel Royer (P.H. Raker)
13. 07:19 AM - Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) (N5SL)
14. 07:25 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (David Barth)
15. 07:50 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Big Gee)
16. 08:09 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 08:15 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Robert Schoenberger)
18. 08:26 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Jack Russell)
19. 09:17 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Gary Gower)
20. 11:23 AM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Trainnut01@aol.com)
21. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield (Gary Liming)
22. 11:26 AM - Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed (Gary Liming)
23. 11:59 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Tommy Walker)
24. 12:05 PM - Low-speed Airspeed Indicator (Zed Smith)
25. 12:06 PM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight! (Cleone Markwell)
26. 12:13 PM - Re: another Prop for sale (Southern Reflections)
27. 12:44 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed (Paul Mulwitz)
28. 01:00 PM - Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) (Gig Giacona)
29. 03:50 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bill Naumuk)
30. 04:22 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bill Naumuk)
31. 04:30 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Paul Mulwitz)
32. 04:51 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bryan Martin)
33. 04:59 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bryan Martin)
34. 05:03 PM - Running Corvair at Golden West Fly in
(JohnKearney@ATT.NET (John Kearney))
35. 05:14 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (Gary
Gower)
36. 05:18 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Robin Bellach)
37. 05:31 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bryan Martin)
38. 05:39 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bill Naumuk)
39. 06:20 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (jsimons2)
40. 07:03 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (Paul
Mulwitz)
41. 07:28 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (ron
dewees)
42. 08:14 PM - Stabilizer Tips (Tim Juhl)
43. 08:14 PM - Stratomaster Enigma (John Hines)
44. 08:51 PM - Re: Stratomaster Enigma (Paul Mulwitz)
45. 09:47 PM - Vs: Builders photo's (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com)
46. 11:50 PM - Re: Stratomaster Enigma (Craig Payne)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:38:47 AM PST US
flight!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com
> It finally flew!
> N701US, in its second incarnation
> made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building.
Great! When you are done all flight tests, could you send all performance
information
to my email too! I'm very interested of them.
jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi
"Jon Croke"
<jon@joncroke.com
> Vastaanottaja
Lhettj: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
owner-zenith-list Kopio
-server@matronics
.com Aihe
Zenith-List: Once, a bad
spring; now: this year's spring
05.06.2006 07:42 brings flight!
Vastausta
pyydetn
kyttjlle
zenith-list@matro
nics.com
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (aweak,unauthorizedRotax Carb spring
brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage
after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701,
built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total
financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends....
so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal
contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually
FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we
attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our
workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less
adhered to.....
I have2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather
average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the
perfectionexplained bymany of our readers here... can in fact build a
plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be
landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I
swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho
that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this
is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No
PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in
its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just
didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open
cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will besummer.... I
will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges...
just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second
wasmostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My
observations on kit vs scratch: ... because Ihave just shade tree
mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the
precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size
tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is
not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies
just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc,
etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the
parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it
ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last
year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 01:28:36 AM PST US
flight!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford <sonar1@cox.net>
Congratulations Jon - and I want to thank you for being so forthcoming
with the info on your spring problem.
When we found that our springs were too strong, my partner wanted - even
insisted that we put in some smaller ones. Only your story saved us.
I've got 70 hours now, lots of fun. Thanks again................
Fred Sanford , California, 80 hp
do not archive
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 02:19:29 AM PST US
flight!
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
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________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 04:52:39 AM PST US
flight!
Jon, congrats! You have put a lot of effort into building your 701
=93Twice=94 but most importantly, you were willing to share with this
list
the reason for your re-build! Many have learned from your mishap and
from that came the birth of HYPERLINK
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"www.homebuilthelp.com , which is your
ongoing determination to help all builders learn and avoid mistakes.
This list is a great resource for learning but Jon has taken the time to
produce video=92s which cover almost everything a new and even a
seasoned
builder needs to know in order to build and register a Zenith plane. As
unfortunate, as Jon=92s accident was in his original 701 what spawned
from
that event has truly been a blessing. For those who have never visited
his website at HYPERLINK
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"www.homebuilthelp.com have a peek, for
new builders or those prospecting the building adventure the job Jon has
done with his video=92s will eliminate two or more years of learning,
not
to mention the time saved in registration and building.
So Jon, Congrats to you on your second first flight ! But more
importantly THANK-YOU for your dedication towards the builders!!
cdngoose
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring
brings flight!
It finally flew!
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
--
--
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 04:52:39 AM PST US
flight!
Congratulations Jon!!!
Put a picture of it up on your CH701.com site, so that those of use
still pounding away can ooohhh and aawwwwhhhhh:):)
Once again, congratulations and keep us informed on flying status.
Keith
CH701 -- 8% -- scratch -- still cutting and pounding away!!
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
*************************************************************************
******
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb
spring
brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage
after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built
701,
built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total
financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both
ends....
so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal
contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually
FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that
we
attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our
workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or
less
adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a
rather
average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to
the
perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a
plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be
landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I
swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even
tho
that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that
this
is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No
PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in
its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just
didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open
cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I
will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy
gauges...
just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second
was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My
observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree
mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the
precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size
tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it
is
not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it
flies
just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples,
etc,
etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the
parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and
it
ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last
year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
========================
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________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 06:03:19 AM PST US
I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The windshield
blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I remember correctly
once you have it fit you will need to trim it along the top where it mat
es with the top plexiglas. Just go slow and will work work out great. On
e thing I did to mine was to replace the clear top glass with a tinted o
ne. It costs 30 bucks or so and I stay ALOT cooler in the cockpit. Any g
lass shop close to ya will have it in stock.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com>
Thx for the info Ben and Gary...
Well, I carved out by the forward wing mounts. But,
of course I am still 1/8" hanging over the firwall at
the top centerline.
When you trimmed the front of your windshields. How
far left/right of the centerline did you trim? It
looks like 330mm or so left and right of the
centerline will produce the desired results?
Any help is appreciated...
Thx...
-Scott
__________________________________________________
=======================
==========
=======================
==========
=======================
==========
=======================
==========
<html><P>I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The wi
ndshield blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I remember c
orrectly once you have it fit you will need to trim it along the top whe
re it mates with the top plexiglas. Just go slow and will work work out
great. One thing I did to mine was to replace the clear top glass with a
tinted one. It costs 30 bucks or so and I stay ALOT cooler in the cockp
it. Any glass shop close to ya will have it in stock.</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com> wrote:<B
R>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott&n
bsp;<squiggles@yahoo.com><BR><BR>Thx for the info&n
bsp;Ben and Gary...<BR><BR>Well, I carved out&n
bsp;by the forward wing mounts. But,<BR>o
f course I am still 1/8" hanging over
the firwall at<BR>the top centerline.<BR><BR>W
hen you trimmed the front of your win
dshields. How<BR>far left/right of the ce
nterline did you trim? It<BR>looks like&n
bsp;330mm or so left and right of the
<BR>centerline will produce the desired results
?<BR><BR>Any help is appreciated...<BR><BR>Thx...<BR>-Sco
tt<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Tired&nb
sp;of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best
=======================
=======================
sp; - The Zenith-List Email Forum&n
utilities such as the Subscriptions page,
=======================
= &nb
sp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -<BR>_
-= Check out the All New Matronics
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
nbsp; &
=======================
- List&
p; &nbs
p; &nbs
p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=======================
=======================
===========<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <BR>&nb
sp;</P></html>
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 06:04:56 AM PST US
fl
ight!
Right on Jon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the Phoniex has risen.....
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized
Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made
its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly
scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engin
e were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my proper
y... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full p
ower and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb o
ver the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the de
signer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right
side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge
distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and
many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a s
imple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by ma
ny of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first
time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special
training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the
ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it st
ill is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my econo
mic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT
affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still
flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or
handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to s
pend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT vi
ew... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some door
s but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...
for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit
(the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a fe
w components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scrat
ch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own
fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the
kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it your
self the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechani
cally safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little
innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to b
uild when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all
the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(
but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accompli
shed this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I
can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jonthe aluminum
butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
<html><P>Right on Jon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the Phoniex has ris
en.....</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
wrote:<BR></P>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It finally flew!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>N701US, in its second incarnation (a&nb
sp;weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the origi
nal 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years o
f building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an econo
my budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss).</FON
T></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have a 1000' grass runway on my prope
ry... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full
power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb
over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the d
esigner, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (righ
t side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet
edge distances were more or less adhered to.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have 2 hours of flight and many
touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a si
mple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained b
y many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies
the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with n
o special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane
leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not a
ccurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!</
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Due to my economic restrictions, I also
learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to h
ave a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without
paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling with
out paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND
saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view..
. a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doo
rs but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the bas
ics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! </FONT>
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My first 701 was a kit (the one that di
ed in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components
purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ...
because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own f
abricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the ki
t... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourse
lf the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanica
lly safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little in
nacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to bui
ld when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all t
he skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(bu
t I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Truly could not have accomplished this
feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now if I can keep this thing in the sky
and out of the trees..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jon</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the aluminum butcher of Brussels
(Brussels, Wisconsin)</FONT></DIV></html>
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 06:06:38 AM PST US
EVERYONE , I need your pictures!!! Please send pictures of you or a
loved one sitting in your unfinished plane making propeller noises, or
just sitting in your plane is fine. Below is the best one yet from Rick
Roberts , can you top that? Please send anything to HYPERLINK
"mailto:pictures@can-zacaviation.com"pictures@can-zacaviation.com I am
in a bit of a rush so please hurry I need about 75 pictures
Thanks Mark
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
--
--
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 06:56:11 AM PST US
flight!
Jon- great news. Congrats. I am just finishing up my re-build so I
can understand where you are coming from. Best of luck in all future
flights.
Al Young
N601AY- second time around
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Croke
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring
brings flight!
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb
spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden
voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch
built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a
total financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both
ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this
metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and
actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the
hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up)....
that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were
more or less adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a
rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled
to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact
build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and
can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to
fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph
indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close
enough to say that this is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No
PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in
its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just
didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open
cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I
will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy
gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just
fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second
was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My
observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree
mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the
precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size
tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it
is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it
flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge
ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to
make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of
.016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over
the last year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 07:07:00 AM PST US
flight!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Jon,
Congratulations. You've won the contest for endurance and the respect
of everyone here for hanging in
through what must have been a really tough time. Probably don't have to
add "Do fly safe".
Good luck and again, congratulations,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Jon Croke wrote:
> It finally flew!
>
> N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb
> spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden
> voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch
> built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were
> a total financial loss).
>
>
> Jon
> the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 07:07:00 AM PST US
flight!
Jon, great story of success ! Many of us would have folded out tents and
went
home, but you battled back. You are to be commended for your ability and
tenacity. A true aviator. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
do not archive
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 07:14:47 AM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" <n556p@yahoo.com>
Would Michel Royer please contact me off-list. I need some information
regarding your HDS for sale. Thanx muchly.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 07:19:06 AM PST US
Mark:
I just sent you a few in high-resolution. Attached is
a preview of one of them.
Have a good day,
Scott Laughlin
--- Zodie Rocket <zodierocket@hsfx.ca> wrote:
> EVERYONE , I need your pictures!!!
>
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 07:25:01 AM PST US
flight!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Congratulations my friend! Fly safe and have a blast.
I look forward to flying with you at some point.
David
--- Jon Croke <jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
> It finally flew!
>
>>
> Jon
> the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels,
Wisconsin)
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 07:50:54 AM PST US
flight!
Congratulations Jon--------- I really enjoyed your story and feel that this
is
what it is all about. I have a whole lot of respect for what you have
accomplished
and I wish the "movement" would swing back more towards the grass roots
of things, vs. the 200 mph "glass" planes.
I know first hand (from building my 701) when you go to a fly-in, and the
person
who will point out that "one rivet out of line" is the same person who
hasn't
even started building his airplane yet, but when he does, "all his rivets
will be in straight line." ( I heard that more than once, from the
"experts".)
I flew my 701 for a year before painting it. I did enjoy the view with
full
Lexan doors, and I also had the "optional" windows which could be opened in
flight.
I think they were a nice feature as one could fly and rest your arm on
the open "window sill", gave a lot of elbow room. ( I mention this to let
you
know, they were very inexpensive to build, afforded the same view as" no
doors",
yet kept the wind out.)
Again, your story touched my heart, as my motto has been: " build it
safe, build
it to have fun, do the best I can with what I have to work with"
Fritz--- Corvair -- plans building XL-- 90% done---90% to go
Jon Croke <jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring
brought
down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about
2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an
economy
budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends....
so I
had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption
would
leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put
in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components
properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that
rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather
average
builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection
explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that
flies
the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no
special
training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the
ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still
is
relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that
do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it
still
flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or
handling
without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND
saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little
windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not
needed
to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do
they are just fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was
mostly
scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit
vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my
own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the
kit...
hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the
first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I
hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and
edge
ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make
the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and
it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last
year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List....
(thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
---------------------------------
countries)
for 2/min or less.
________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 08:09:56 AM PST US
flight!
Jon...Awesome news!
You have been an inspiration in pulling back from such a downer.
My hat is off to you.
Frank
RV7a....First successful spray painting!
________________________________
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:43 PM
flight!
It finally flew!
________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
Time: 08:15:00 AM PST US
flight!
Jon . . . I'm very happy for you and look forward to reports on No. 2's
performance - glide ability, landing characteristics, etc. Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Croke
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 12:42 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring
brings flight!
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb
spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden
voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch
built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a
total financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both
ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this
metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and
actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the
hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up)....
that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were
more or less adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a
rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled
to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact
build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and
can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to
fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph
indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close
enough to say that this is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No
PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in
its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just
didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open
cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I
will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy
gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just
fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second
was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My
observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree
mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the
precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size
tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it
is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it
flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge
ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to
make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of
.016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over
the last year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
________________________________ Message 18
____________________________________
Time: 08:26:30 AM PST US
flight!
Jon: I remember your saga with the trees very well. You sure did get back
on the
horse or in this case the plane. Congrats! Jack in los osos ca. do not
archive
Al Young <armyret@mchsi.com> wrote: Jon- great news. Congrats. I
am
just finishing up my re-build so I can understand where you are coming from.
Best of luck in all future flights.
Al Young
N601AY- second time around
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Croke
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings
flight!
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring
brought
down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about
2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an
economy
budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends....
so I
had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption
would
leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put
in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components
properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that
rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather
average
builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection
explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that
flies
the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no
special
training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the
ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still
is
relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that
do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it
still
flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or
handling
without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND
saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little
windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not
needed
to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do
they are just fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was
mostly
scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit
vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my
own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the
kit...
hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the
first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I
hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and
edge
ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make
the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and
it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last
year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List....
(thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
________________________________ Message 19
____________________________________
Time: 09:17:04 AM PST US
flight!
Congratulations Jon!!!!
I knew you could make it, Yes, was a good idea to build it second time.
Lots of hours of flight and happiness in years to come..
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
Jon Croke <jon@joncroke.com> wrote:
It finally flew!
N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring
brought
down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about
2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an
economy
budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss).
I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends....
so I
had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption
would
leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put
in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components
properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that
rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to.....
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather
average
builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection
explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that
flies
the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no
special
training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the
ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still
is
relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
things that
do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it
still
flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or
handling
without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND
saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little
windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not
needed
to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do
they are just fine!
My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was
mostly
scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit
vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my
own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the
kit...
hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the
first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I
hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and
edge
ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make
the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and
it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last
year)...
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
Zenith-List....
(thank you!)
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
Time: 11:23:06 AM PST US
Bill
I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a large
deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws garage (3 inch
screws)
a
1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a RV7 and am now almost done with
the
wings and tail of my 601. I am still using the same drill and it still
works
fine. I have two battery packs, one is always in the the drill and the
other is always on charge. The batteries do seem to require changing more
often
as they age but that is not much of a problem. If the DeWalt dies tonight I
will buy another one tomorrow, just like it if I can.
Carroll Jernigan
XL
________________________________ Message 21
____________________________________
Time: 11:23:06 AM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
Yep, did the same thing - put grey tinted Lexan on the top. Trimmed
a bit off the top so that it would lay down better with the trim
strip in the photo, and the amount trimmed off the bottom was the
same all the way around.
Gary
At 07:57 AM 6/5/2006, you wrote:
>I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The
>windshield blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I
>remember correctly once you have it fit you will need to trim it
>along the top where it mates with the top plexiglas. Just go slow
>and will work work out great. One thing I did to mine was to replace
>the clear top glass with a tinted one. It costs 30 bucks or so and I
>stay ALOT cooler in the cockpit. Any glass shop close to ya will
>have it in stock.
>
>do not archive
>
>
>Ben Haas
>N801BH
>www.haaspowerair.com
>
>-- Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com> wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com>
>
>Thx for the info Ben and Gary...
>
>Well, I carved out by the forward wing mounts. But,
>of course I am still 1/8" hanging over the firwall at
>the top centerline.
>
>When you trimmed the front of your windshields. How
>far left/right of the centerline did you trim? It
>looks like 330mm or so left and right of the
>centerline will produce the desired results?
________________________________ Message 22
____________________________________
Time: 11:26:23 AM PST US
Congrats, Jon!
At 11:42 PM 6/4/2006, you wrote:
>It finally flew!
> I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph
> indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively
> close enough to say that this is STOL!
That is one thing particular to the 701/801's - getting an airspeed
indicator to work at "low" speeds. By way of experimentation, my
Falcon airspeed indicator doesn't register until about 35-40 mph. My
Dynon D10 doesn't come up until 40, either. This is pretty close to
stall speed, so it would be nice to know of something that has some
accuracy starting at 20-30 mph. My Lift Reserve indicator comes up
sooner, and I do pay attention to that, but anyone know of an
airspeed indicator that is more sensitive at the slower
speeds? Anyone have any real experience with when the ultralight
style airspeed indicators "come up?"
Gary
________________________________ Message 23
____________________________________
Time: 11:59:01 AM PST US
flight!
Congratulations Jon!
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not Archive
________________________________ Message 24
____________________________________
Time: 12:05:43 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Spruce lists several indicators for the low-and-slow crowd at a bit over
US$100.
Some require a pitot that resembles a metal sewing thimble affixed to the
end
of a metal tube. Probably to gather more air in the vacuum of slow flight.
Regards,
Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc
do not archive
________________________________ Message 25
____________________________________
Time: 12:06:17 PM PST US
brings
flight!
Hi Jon, I've been waiting to see this e-mail
message. Congratulations! Cleone
At 08:54 AM 6/5/06, you wrote:
>Jon- great news. Congrats. I am just finishing up my re-build so
>I can understand where you are coming from. Best of luck in all
>future flights.
>Al Young
>N601AY- second time around
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:jon@joncroke.com>Jon Croke
>To: <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM
>Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring
>brings flight!
>
>It finally flew!
>
>N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb
>spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its
>maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly
>scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and
>engine were a total financial loss).
>
>I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both
>ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that
>this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees
>and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer,
>and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right
>side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet
>edge distances were more or less adhered to.....
>
>I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a
>rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never
>leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here...
>can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and
>level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and
>it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at
>about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is
>relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!
>
>Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few
>things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun
>plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice
>no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a
>bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of
>time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy...
>but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not
>needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of
>flying I do they are just fine!
>
>My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The
>second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save
>time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just
>shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were
>not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to
>get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first
>time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe
>(I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little
>innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer
>to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020
>for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about
>30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)...
>
>Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this
>Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
>
>Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
>
>
>Jon
>the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)
________________________________ Message 26
____________________________________
Time: 12:13:15 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Southern Reflections"
<purplemoon99@bellsouth.net>
I read this info regarding your prop. I have one just like it therefore
please inform me as to what incompatibilities you have detected.
Anxious to hear from you.
Joe G
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:13 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary k" <gkrysztopik@satx.rr.com>
>
> Blue, 2-blade composite (wood core) Prince prop. 68" X 62", SAE1
> pattern. May be good for Corvair? Out performs Warp, covers wide range
> of pitch settings w/o having to change pitch. Can't say enough about
> Lonnie Prince and his props, awesome. About 40 hours on prop, still
> like new. Used on Stratus but seems to be incompatible with 2.2:1
> redrive. $750 obo (paid $1000 and well worth it).
>
> gary
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 27
____________________________________
Time: 12:44:09 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>My Lift Reserve indicator comes up sooner, and I do pay attention to
>that, but anyone know of an airspeed indicator that is more
>sensitive at the slower speeds?
I have installed a Lift Reserve Indicator in my XL, but I am a long
way from flying. I want to ask you about your experience with this
device. With it working at low speeds, why do you want a low speed
airspeed indicator? Is the LRI sufficient to tell you when to
rotate? Perhaps this is just a matter of having a backup indication.
Paul
XL wings.
do not archive
________________________________ Message 28
____________________________________
Time: 01:00:03 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox.net>
You do realize that you have now disqualified your plane for LSA use.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38739#38739
________________________________ Message 29
____________________________________
Time: 03:50:14 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Bryan-
You hit on the one real question mark I had for the layout, and to tell
the truth, I'm puzzled.
I've had my work in the house inspected for insurance purposes twice
over the years, and the only places I was required to use 10g was for the
water heater and water pump. I have heaters in both my bathrooms wired with
12g that have never had a problem (I built the house in '88) and neither
inspector said a thing about them either time. Everyone I've talked to
around here said, yeah, you've got it right for the welder circuit.
I'm getting 234V at the box, and the outlet is only 2' away. If my
lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go with 10g.
As far as the rest of the circuits, I can only run one tool at a time!
Bill
do
not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:02 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> You don't have that 30A welder circuit wired with 12 gauge wire do you?
> It should be wired with 10 gauge wire. Other than that your setup looks
> good as long as you're not going to be running multiple loads
> simultaneously on the same circuit.
>
> On Jun 4, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
>> I installed a sub breaker panel from the main and have a 30A 240V
>> circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected outlet circuits, and a 20A
>> lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground. Outlets are double
>> gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'. Can I quit now? I have
>> space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or 2-15A 120 breakers if need
>> be.
>> Please say I'm done! The price of Romex has gone up .30/ft in the
>> past two weeks!!!!
>> Bill
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
> do not archive.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 30
____________________________________
Time: 04:22:34 PM PST US
Carroll-
Actually, I went in with the intention of buying a DeWalt, but was
hooked by the Ridgid lifetime warranty for $10 more than the price of
the DeWalt. God knows, they're probably both made in the same factory.
The two exceptions seem to be the Pro Line Hitachi and the Bosch. I
finally got to see both.
The Pro Line Hitachi has awesome torque (140 in/lbs higher than the
Ridgid, which is higher than any other brand I originally looked at) for
the same 189.95 price, but twice the charge time and a 5 year warranty.
Definitely worth considering. The Bosch is made in Switzerland (!), but
the price makes you cringe.
Problem is, Carroll, you can't rely on the old brand names any more.
It wasn't too long ago when a Homelite or McCulloch chain saw was the
best you could buy! My Subaru was built in Indiana, my wife's Ford in
Mexico.
Times have changed.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Trainnut01@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome
Bill
I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a
large deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws garage (3
inch screws) a 1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a RV7 and am now
almost done with the wings and tail of my 601. I am still using the same
drill and it still works fine. I have two battery packs, one is always
in the the drill and the other is always on charge. The batteries do
seem to require changing more often as they age but that is not much of
a problem. If the DeWalt dies tonight I will buy another one tomorrow,
just like it if I can.
Carroll Jernigan
XL
________________________________ Message 31
____________________________________
Time: 04:30:00 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote:
>If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and
>go with 10g.
Bill,
The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit
breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result
of the current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard
used in electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10
degrees Celsius. If you let the wires get really hot there is a risk of
fire.
Have fun,
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
________________________________ Message 32
____________________________________
Time: 04:51:33 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
In most cases, a 30 amp circuit must be wired with 10 gauge wire. But
after further research in the NEC, I see that welder circuits are an
exception to the rule. Article 630 allows the size of the conductor
to be reduced according to the duty cycle of the welder, so your
circuit is probably correct.
The voltage of the circuit is irrelevent, the current rating of the
load is the important factor. The circuit breaker is usually sized to
protect the wire in the circuit from overheating due to too much
current flow.
Your 240 volt electric space heaters are probably rated at less than
16 Amps which would allow a 20 Amp breaker and 12 guage wire.
I used to be an electrician but I haven't worked in that field for
several years so some of this stuff has faded from memory.
On Jun 5, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>
> Bryan-
> You hit on the one real question mark I had for the layout, and
> to tell the truth, I'm puzzled.
> I've had my work in the house inspected for insurance purposes
> twice over the years, and the only places I was required to use 10g
> was for the water heater and water pump. I have heaters in both my
> bathrooms wired with 12g that have never had a problem (I built the
> house in '88) and neither inspector said a thing about them either
> time. Everyone I've talked to around here said, yeah, you've got it
> right for the welder circuit.
> I'm getting 234V at the box, and the outlet is only 2' away. If
> my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go
> with 10g.
> As far as the rest of the circuits, I can only run one tool at a
> time!
>
>
> Bill
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
________________________________ Message 33
____________________________________
Time: 04:59:57 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
A ten year old DeWalt is probably not the same as a new one. The
design was changed several years ago and tne newer ones aren't as
good. DeWalt is now a division of Black and Decker, which is a
division of GE and some of the worst junk in the history of
electricity have come from GE.
RCA used to be one of the better electronics firms until they were
bought out by GE and now they make nothing but junk.
On Jun 5, 2006, at 7:21 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:
> Carroll-
> Actually, I went in with the intention of buying a DeWalt, but
> was hooked by the Ridgid lifetime warranty for $10 more than the
> price of the DeWalt. God knows, they're probably both made in the
> same factory.
> The two exceptions seem to be the Pro Line Hitachi and the
> Bosch. I finally got to see both.
> The Pro Line Hitachi has awesome torque (140 in/lbs higher than
> the Ridgid, which is higher than any other brand I originally
> looked at) for the same 189.95 price, but twice the charge time and
> a 5 year warranty. Definitely worth considering. The Bosch is made
> in Switzerland (!), but the price makes you cringe.
> Problem is, Carroll, you can't rely on the old brand names any
> more. It wasn't too long ago when a Homelite or McCulloch chain saw
> was the best you could buy! My Subaru was built in Indiana, my
> wife's Ford in Mexico.
> Times have changed.
>
>
> Bill
>
> do not archive
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Trainnut01@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome
>
> Bill
> I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a
> large deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws
> garage (3 inch screws) a 1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a
> RV7 and am now almost done with the wings and tail of my 601. I am
> still using the same drill and it still works fine. I have two
> battery packs, one is always in the the drill and the other is
> always on charge. The batteries do seem to require changing more
> often as they age but that is not much of a problem. If the DeWalt
> dies tonight I will buy another one tomorrow, just like it if I can.
> Carroll Jernigan
> XL
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
________________________________ Message 34
____________________________________
Time: 05:03:59 PM PST US
Hi all,
I will have my running corvair engine at the Zenith/Quality Sport Planes
Booth
at the Golden West Flyin this weekend. Come on by and lets talk corvair and
the
Zodiac 601XL.
Best regards
John
--
John and Jean Kearney
Builders Turbo Corvair
Zenith Aircraft
Zodiac 601XL
<html>
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<head></head>
<body>
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
<DIV>Hi all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I will have my running corvair engine at the Zenith/Quality Sport
Planes Booth
at the Golden West Flyin this weekend. Come on by and lets talk corvair and
the Zodiac 601XL.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best regards</DIV>
<DIV>John<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>John and Jean Kearney <BR>Builders
Turbo
Corvair <BR>Zenith Aircraft <BR>Zodiac 601XL</DIV>
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
</body>
</html>
________________________________ Message 35
____________________________________
Time: 05:14:54 PM PST US
Hello Paul,
I have mine installed in the 701, Is a diferent type of airplane that
the 601,
because the 701 has two diferent angle of attack in the wing.
One without the slots working (normal approach) and another diferent angle
of
attack in the flare (when the slots beguin to work).
We use our LRI calibrated at normal approach angle of attack for two
reasons:
First We fly at diferent altitudes here and diferent sizes of landing
strips,
so a slow aproach without loosing glide angle/speed is important.
And second the STOL flair/approach in the 701 is so slow and close to the
ground
that sincerely, there is no time to glance at the LRI. We just keep the
eyes on the strip trough the side of the windshield that instant before
touch
down...
I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI installed, but I
am
very far from the kit looking as an airplane...
Here is one good article that explains how the LRI works in a "normal"
type of
wing. (If there is something close to "normal wing" in modern homebuilt
airplanes
:-)
In this article is an instalation in a RV6.
Very similar way, was how it was explained to me by a local bush pilot
that
has one installed in his airplane and talked me to install one.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm
Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive short
field
landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will say (in my case).
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>My Lift Reserve indicator comes up sooner, and I do pay attention to
>that, but anyone know of an airspeed indicator that is more
>sensitive at the slower speeds?
I have installed a Lift Reserve Indicator in my XL, but I am a long
way from flying. I want to ask you about your experience with this
device. With it working at low speeds, why do you want a low speed
airspeed indicator? Is the LRI sufficient to tell you when to
rotate? Perhaps this is just a matter of having a backup indication.
Paul
XL wings.
do not archive
__________________________________________________
________________________________ Message 36
____________________________________
Time: 05:18:56 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
While the whole shop is burning down and melting everyting in it you will
briefly have plenty of light while you consider the choice of using an
oversized breaker with undersized wire, and may develop a new perspective on
dim lights.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 6:28 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
> At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote:
>>If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go
>>with 10g.
>
>
> Bill,
>
> The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit
> breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result of the
> current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard used in
> electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10 degrees Celsius.
> If you let the wires get really hot there is a risk of fire.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Paul
> XL wings
> do not archive
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Paul Mulwitz
> 32013 NE Dial Road
> Camas, WA 98607
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 37
____________________________________
Time: 05:31:14 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
The primary reason for a choosing a particular wire size is to
prevent overheating due to current. But for long wire runs, voltage
drop also becomes a factor, the wires should be sized to prevent a
voltage drop of more than 3% at the farthest end of a branch circuit.
If you don't follow this guide, you won't cause your lights to dim or
circuit breakers to pop, your load will just run at under its rated
voltage. For a motor circuit, this can be a problem as motors don't
like running under speed. This is one reason major appliances can be
damaged during a "brown-out". If you've ever run a large drill motor
at the end of a long extension cord, you may have encountered this
situation. A 50 foot extension cord will be rated at a lower current
than a ten foot cord even if both use the same size wire.
On Jun 5, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
> At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote:
>> If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why
>> and go with 10g.
>
>
> Bill,
>
> The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit
> breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result
> of the current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard
> used in electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10
> degrees Celsius. If you let the wires get really hot there is a
> risk of fire.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Paul
> XL wings
> do not archive
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
________________________________ Message 38
____________________________________
Time: 05:39:03 PM PST US
All-
Before I go any farther, let me tell you that my first arc-welding
experience was cutting up junk cars in the middle of a field, with the
welder connected with a 100' roll of 12 /2 to two 10A fuses in a barn.
That said, I plugged a batch of high drain corded devices in 3
outlets, and turned on every light in the new shop. I was able to get a
slight dimming of the lights.
Save your breath. This is probably my only chance to build MY
workshop, the way I want it. I've already spent more than I did on my
kit, so what the Hell?
I'll replace the 12/2 inlet lines with 10g ASAP.
Bill
________________________________ Message 39
____________________________________
Time: 06:20:27 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" <jsimons4@triad.rr.com>
Go with the 10 gauge wire and be safe. Most welders require a 30 amp circuit
due
to their current draw. The only time that #12 gauge wire is allowed to be on
a circuit that is protected by more than a 20 amp breaker is on A/C and
refridgeration
equipment. It is then limited to no more than 25 amps minimum circuit
ampacity. This is due to the high, but short duration, startup draw of
compressors.
No wire is allowed more than 80% of its rating for continuous load. The
other receptacle circuits should be fine due to the fact that you will
probably
never use more than one piece of equipment at a time. All of my info comes
straight from the NEC (National Electrical Code). My qualifications?? Senior
electrical inspector for the city where I live and over 28 years in the
business.
Jerome Simons
very near future 601 HDS scrap builder
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38823#38823
________________________________ Message 40
____________________________________
Time: 07:03:10 PM PST US
Hi Gary,
Thank you for the article link on flying the LRI. I enjoyed reading
it and got my ideas about it reinforced. It sounds to me like a much
better instrument to use for critical airspeed control than the
airspeed indicator. Of course you can still use the nose "Picture"
on the horizon to control your speed as well, but the LRI sounds like
a nice precise way to get nearly maximum performance from your plane
on both takeoff and landing.
I understand your comment about not wanting to take your eyes off the
runway on landing approach to check the LRI. There may be several
ways to deal with this problem. Let me suggest a few:
1. You can set up your approach at the desired LRI indication. Then
look at the pitch on the nose of your plane and hold the same pitch
while using the same power/airspeed and flap setting. This should
hold the same LRI indication.
2. I have seen many AOA indicators - particularly the kind with
colored lights - mounted above the instrument panel so the indication
is easy to see while looking out the windshield. You could mount
your LRI indicator either on top of the panel or at the top-most
position in the center of your viewing image. This would make it
very easy to find the indicator at the critical moments.
3. If you have already mounted your indicator at a remote location
in your instrument panel, you might be able to make an optical path
to make it visible from above the panel. This might be similar to
the mirrors used in a "Periscope". Place one rectangular or oval
mirror below the gauge and mount another one above the panel in line
with the other mirror. Then you should be able to see the instrument
face while looking out the windshield.
In any case, I am happy I decided to install one of these instruments
in my XL. I think I will put it on the topmost row of instruments -
perhaps right next to the EFIS.
Thanks again,
Paul
XL wings (nearly done)
At 05:13 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote:
>Hello Paul,
>
>We use our LRI calibrated at normal approach angle of attack for two
>reasons:
>
>First We fly at diferent altitudes here and diferent sizes of
>landing strips, so a slow aproach without loosing glide
>angle/speed is important.
>
>And second the STOL flair/approach in the 701 is so slow and close
>to the ground that sincerely, there is no time to glance at the
>LRI. We just keep the eyes on the strip trough the side of the
>windshield that instant before touch down...
>
>I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI
>installed, but I am very far from the kit looking as an airplane...
>
>Here is one good article that explains how the LRI works in a
>"normal" type of wing. (If there is something close to "normal
>wing" in modern homebuilt airplanes :-)
>
><http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm>http://home.hiwaa
y.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm
>
>Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive
>short field landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will
>say (in my case).
>
>Saludos
>Gary Gower.
>
________________________________ Message 41
____________________________________
Time: 07:28:38 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Paul and Gary,
I can't speak to the 701 installation of a LRI but have had a LRI in my
601HDS for almost a year and a half. I posted pictures of the probe and
indicator on Scott Laughlin's website and would not fly without it. My
field is short and rough and I found that my landings were unnecessarily
long and fast. Using the LRI I have shortened the takeoff and landing
distance and cut down considerably on wear and tear on the plane and my
nerves. I highly reccomend one.
As far as being too busy to look at one while close to the ground I
found that it's THE most important instrument to look at close to the
ground. I mounted mine above the instrument panel so it's in my line of
sight as I look out the canopy. A few ex-military pilots recognize it
but almost all GA pilots are clueless as to it's function untill they
see it in action. Total cost was less than $80 or so. Only downside is
that the Dwyer differential pressure gauge used on mine as in indicator
is an odd size-- I guess 3 or 3 1/2 inches so it's hard to put in line
with other instruments. I have seen expensive and complex digital
models that illiminate sequential red or green LEDs but I like the
analog needle that gives immediate feedback on wing's lift. I installed
it to let me know when the wing was about to stall so I could land
slower but found that it's just as handy to lift off short in ground
effect and watch the lift available rise to a safe level before rotating
and climbing out Works just as well to give warning of an impending
departure stall or if you do a high speed turn or chandelle it lets you
know what the state of lift remaining is.
If you ever fly with one you won't be without one. Just don't stick it
in a corner where you can't see it easily.
Ron
Gary Gower wrote:
> Hello Paul,
>
> I have mine installed in the 701, Is a diferent type of airplane
> that the 601, because the 701 has two diferent angle of attack in the
> wing.
>
> I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI installed,
> but I am very far from the kit looking as an airplane...
>
> Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive
> short field landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will
> say (in my case).
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
________________________________ Message 42
____________________________________
Time: 08:14:30 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl@avci.net>
I'm sure this subject has come up before, but humor me and give me the
benefit
of your collective wisdom.
I'm getting ready to fit the fiberglass tips to my horizontal stabilizer.
Looking
at the tips I see a few problems....
1.) They don't fit very snugly within the end of the stab. When you rivet
them
will the rivets pull the tip's edges up to the contour of the skins or am I
likely
to get some wrinkles in the aluminum skin?
2.) The open edges of the tips are not straight (flat). The edge line is
curved
inwards towards the outside center of the tip. Should I sand or dress the
edges until straight?
3.) There are some chips in the fiberglass coating around the edges. Any
recommendation
as to what I should use to fill and smooth these areas?
Thanks!
Tim
--------
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Horiz. Stab. & Elev.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38844#38844
________________________________ Message 43
____________________________________
Time: 08:14:30 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool!
http://www.mglavionics.co.za/enigma.html
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines@craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
needs
of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you
have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This
message
contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual
named.
If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute
or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you
have
received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If
you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing,
copying,
distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
information
is strictly prohibited.
________________________________ Message 44
____________________________________
Time: 08:51:32 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool!
It looks pretty cool to me. I think the best way to deal with this
new design is to let someone else suffer the growing pains and wait
for good reviews from actual airplane builders. That should take a
year or two after they start shipping.
For now I will stick with Dynon, Blue Mountain, etc. for my panel to
be built later this year.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
________________________________ Message 45
____________________________________
Time: 09:47:04 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com
:-)
http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/DSC03292.JPG
and
http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/DSC03291.JPG
________________________________ Message 46
____________________________________
Time: 11:50:56 PM PST US
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
At last!
If you are in the US an tempted to buy one this is MGL's US dealer:
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/
Great folks: both MGL and Sport Flying Shop.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:10 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines"
--> <John.Hines@craftontull.com>
Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool!
http://www.mglavionics.co.za/enigma.html
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines@craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender
immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete
this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are
notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in
reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
It's really how easy it is to land that plane.. you're only going about
40mph!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman"
> <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
>
> Jon,
>
> Nice video. Looks like you have been flying that plane for years.
>
>
do not archive
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
A fly cutter works fine. Just be precise.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
><p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
<<SNIP>>
>I don't think the fly-cutter is the right way to make this hole and it
>certainly won't work to enlarge it.
<<SNIP>>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
Take a look at how Scott Laughlin cut the hole in his tank, and prepared the
ring:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_5_03_SenderParts.JPG
Thanks,
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 10:36 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I don't know about the approach you are considering. I know the one with
> the proper sized hole works fine. It both allows the ring to be inserted
> in the tank and allows for good clamping of the ring for final
> installation.
>
> One thing to keep in mind - if you have problems with the sender
> installation you have to remove your leading edge skin to get to it for
> repairs.
>
> I don't think the fly-cutter is the right way to make this hole and it
> certainly won't work to enlarge it. I use a round thin plywood pattern
> made the size I want the hole. I then mark the final hole size with felt
> tip and cut the hole with a combination of snips and files. I have tried
> to explain this approach before and got flamed and called a "Kit builder"
> in the past. Still, I think it is the quickest and easiest way to make a
> hole in sheet aluminum. In your case, if you mark the final hole you can
> probably cut the majority of the waste metal away in about one minute and
> file the rest in another 5 or 10 minutes.
>
> Your approach of cutting all the way through the ring sounds interesting,
> but I think you will find you need some pretty heavy tools to cut through
> that heavy gauge steel. Then you have to figure out the impact of having
> the ring cut in the final position.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
> do not archive
>
> At 06:26 AM 6/27/2006, you wrote:
>>Thanks for the quick responses. The sender instructions I have call for
>>the hole to be (I believe without having it in front of me) much less than
>>59mm - I am remembering 48mm or 43mm - either way it is the same diameter
>>as the inner circle of the ring. I understand the principle of the notch
>>in the ring, but according to the instructions I have (and think I have
>>followed), the hole is still too small. Note here that this is a sender
>>sent with a wing kit in 2003 - I know from the pictures that it is not
>>exactly the same as those used today, but I don't know all the
>>differences.
>>
>>So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I can use the notch in the
>>side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense to me even though I
>>don't believe it is how my sender instructions read.
>>
>>If that is the case, is there any reason I can't just cut a notch in the
>>side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire hole? Sort of an abrubt
>>oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a notch clear through the
>>ring. Then I could slide the skin through notch, lower the ring in, and
>>slide it back off the skin inside. From the new photo guide it appears
>>that the new ring is split and a similar technique is used - I can't
>>imagine that a 2mm notch in the ring is going to cause problems securely
>>clamping the gasket on the other side. Thoughts or concerns with this
>>solution. (I continue to ask about this possibility because it seems to
>>be much easier than enlarging the entire hole. Going back with a
>>flycutter by hand after I have removed the center of the hole does not
>>usually produce very clean results, which I obviously need here!)
>>
>>Thanks again for the help. Nice to have people like Ed at a very similar
>>building stage!
>>
>>Michael
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Thanks for the kind words Michael. You're right about the difficulty with a hole
saw or fly cutter after the original hole is done. The only salvation I've found
is to back the original hole with plywood clamped firmly in place. I don't
see how you could do that on the tank except maybe to clamp a piece of plexiglas
all the way from the inboard to the outboard tank edges. Then you could see
through to align a hole saw, not the fly cutter. Cutting through the plastic
first make a "collar" to keep the hole saw concentric on the metal.
Better yet, I like your idea of cutting a slot through the inner ring. A hacksaw
blade cut is thicker than the tank skin and wouldn't compromise the rubber gasket
pressure on the outside of the tank. Probably the best solution in this
case.
Good luck,
Ed
---- Michael Valentine <mgvalentine@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the quick responses.
> So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I can use the notch in the
> side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense to me even though I don't
> believe it is how my sender instructions read.
>
> If that is the case, is there any reason I can't just cut a notch in the
> side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire hole? Sort of an abrubt
> oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a notch clear through the
> ring.
Message 14
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| Subject: | First flight video |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith <zsmith3rd@earthlink.net>
Congrats, Jon!
Looks good.
Noise abatement program must be working.....horses didn't seem to mind.
Best Regards,
Zed
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works |
Grant,
Thanks for the info, sounds like you have a plan together. A hanger will
certainly help you realize your dream.
Good luck
Bob
do not archive
In a message dated 6/27/2006 9:51:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Grant.Schemmel@Aeroflex.com writes:
Hi Bob,
I actually picked up the kit as a partially completed project a couple of
years ago, where the fuselage structure was complete and (sort-of) on the main
gear. I had to basically ignore it up until about now, as I've had other
priorities. However, recently bought a hanger, and am getting ready to move my
aircraft factory out there from my garage. Hopefully I can really get
started on it then.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
DITTO! Flycutter works great for me. But unless the peice is jigged up in
drill press I turn by hand. Takes just a minute or two for nice clean hole
with smooth sanded edge.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 10:22 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
>
> A fly cutter works fine. Just be precise.
>
> Phil Maxson
> 601XL/Corvair
> Northwest New Jersey
>
>
>>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
>><p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>>
> <<SNIP>>
>>I don't think the fly-cutter is the right way to make this hole and it
>>certainly won't work to enlarge it.
>
> <<SNIP>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: CH701 wing strut attachement vs. Savannah accident |
The 701 plans show a rivet between the strut attachment and the angled
brace that is attached to the "L" on the wing (this brace without rivet
is clearly seen in the referenced picture). This rivet will provide
support midway on the strut attachment and keep it from flexing. In
fact, the directions on my 701 plans (not SP) and manual have a reminder
to specifically put that rivet in. Chris H. must have been aware of the
potential failure of the strut attach bracket without the rivet.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Jari Kaija
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 12:02 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 wing strut attachement vs. Savannah
accident
I'm not sure, If you know this already, but it surely makes me do
inspection
hole to my wings!
One year ago (2005) two pilots died in Norway, when Savannah lost
one of it's wing. Savannah uses exactly same kind of wing strut
attachement as CH701 uses and it fails by stress.
There is links for pictures and service instruction:
http://www.ilmailu.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=500.0;id
=362
http://www.ilmailu.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=500.0;id
=363
----------------------------------
http://www.jarikaija.com
http://www.project-ch701.net
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
You may have to cut two slots opposite each other to make sure the
slots are covered by the gasket.
If I recall correctly, on mine the instructions called for the hole
to be the same diameter as the outer diameter of the ring of screw
holes in the plate. Then you could assemble the sender with two long
screws threaded a couple of turns into the ring and maneuver the
whole assembly into the hole and install the rest of the screws. This
would be much easier than inserting the ring and holding it in place
with one hand while holding the gasket and sender with another hand
while trying to thread a screw into the holes with a third hand. Only
the outer edge of the ring and sender plate clamp the tank opening
and you don't have to cut individual holes for each of the mounting
screws.
Since you already have a hole cut, if you go this route you'll either
have to clamp everything up and use a fly cutter in a drill press or
mark the new hole size and trim out close to it with snips and finish
off with a half round file.
I also made an access hole in the nose skin above the sender with a
cover held in place by screws to enable easy repair or replacement of
the sender later on. My sender is in the top of the tank.
On Jun 27, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Michael Valentine wrote:
>
> So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I can use the notch
> in the side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense to me
> even though I don't believe it is how my sender instructions read.
>
> If that is the case, is there any reason I can't just cut a notch
> in the side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire hole? Sort
> of an abrubt oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a notch
> clear through the ring. Then I could slide the skin through notch,
> lower the ring in, and slide it back off the skin
> Michael
>
>
> On 6/27/06, Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net > wrote: --> Zenith-
> List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" < dredmoody@cox.net>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Let me add a bit to what Paul told you (it's fresh in mind because
> I just
> did it). The hole diameter called for is 59 mm. Don't make it any
> bigger
> than that because there is very little of the inner ring
> overlapping the
> edge at that diameter. If you open it much bigger, you won't have
> much of
> the edge to squeeze on with the inner ring.
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Picked up Fuselage, Wheels and Controls |
Hi All,
Just wanted to let anyone know that is contemplating a pickup from ZAC
that I visited the Zenith factory on the 19th and they loaded the
Fuselage, wheels and gear along with the controls into my 2004 Town &
Country Short Wheelbase van. I did remove the 2nd and third row of seats
(prior to getting there -- I didn't leave them there) and was amazed to
see the professionalism with which their staff loaded all the parts into
that seemingly small amount of space. Some of the longer parts were
rolled into diameters as small as 1-1.5 feet. I then proceeded to drive
over to Wicks near Lebanon, IL to pick up some parts, then to Kentucky
for a few days, NC for a few more and then back to Florida. It took me 6
hours to inventory and unload all the parts from the Van and store them
in the Wing Box/Storage Cabinet. I'm having a blast!
Scott Thatcher
601XL with Corvair Conversion
Rudder, Stab and Elevator, Wings Finished.
Now on to the Fuselage!
Message 20
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| Subject: | Jabiru 3300 (Sept) and Corvair(Oct) FWF classes in Cloverdale, |
CA
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
William will be teaching a class on installing a Corvair on a 601XL from
Friday, October 6th through Sunday, October 8th at Quality Sport Planes (aka
Zenith West) in Cloverdale, CA (2 hours north of San Francisco in the wine
country).
Jim McCormick of Jabiru Pacific will be teaching a similar class for the
3300 Friday, September 8th through Sunday, September 10th.
Details for both at:
www.qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_040.htm
-- Craig
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
builder websites are posted in ch701.com and
ch601.org. Builders just have to send a link to
moderrator at ch601.org to get their site listed. Is
this some thing like you were looking for Kevin?
David
do not archive
--- kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> kevinbonds@comcast.net
>
> Looks good guys. One small thing that is
> missing--that I'm sure you are already working
> on--is links to our sites.
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
__________________________________________________
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | XL engine mount fittings |
The engine mount fittings in my kit are partially fabbed, with the welding
done and the holes for the canopy hinge drilled. However, the holes for the
3/8" bolts that penetrate the firewall are not drilled. I can't find any
guidance in the manual nor in the drawings for locating these holes. In fact,
the
photos and some of the drawings show a different fitting than the one supplied,
and the photos show the bolt welded to the fitting. Confusion reigns, so any
assistance will be appreciated.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" <jay@agstore.net>
The VDO senders that I installed in my 801 called for the 59mm hole in the tank.
No modifications neccessary.
However, I bought another VDO sender (same part number) from Summit Racing for
another project. It came with a poorly photocopied instruction and called for
a 43 mm hole in the tank. There was no date on either instruction so I am not
sure which one was older. I would go with the 59mm hole as it worked for me.
Or call VDO and check with them. I can scan my original instructions if you
would like to see.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43458#43458
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: XL engine mount fittings |
Jay- Check out page 6B7 for exact location of all 4 holes. Regards- Al
Young
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:15 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: XL engine mount fittings
The engine mount fittings in my kit are partially fabbed, with the
welding done and the holes for the canopy hinge drilled. However, the
holes for the 3/8" bolts that penetrate the firewall are not drilled. I
can't find any guidance in the manual nor in the drawings for locating
these holes. In fact, the photos and some of the drawings show a
different fitting than the one supplied, and the photos show the bolt
welded to the fitting. Confusion reigns, so any assistance will be
appreciated.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: XL engine mount fittings |
Page 6B7 clearly locates all the holes in the firewall. I drilled them a
long time ago. I still don't know where to drill the holes in the fittings.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Impossible |
Folks, you that want to cut out and make a bubble in your wing for the sender
unit consider this, if you modify the tall center bolt and nut by grinding,
that reduces the profile. Second, when you fill the tank the weight of it will
settle the tank in the cork you put on the bottom and reduce the profile even
more so that the skin clears the top with some to spare. At least that was the
way mine went. FWIW, best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Continued |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Winston Ellis <w1mdi@cox.net>
Michael
After much painful contemplation, I installed the backing rings in holes
with the same ID as the ring by cutting a small gap in the ring and
drilling the mounting holes so the gap was at the bottom. I then laced a
piece of safety wire through two holes in the ring opposite the gap,
fished the ends through the corresponding holes in the tank from the
inside with a pair of needle nose pliers and then inserted the ring in
the tank. I pulled the ring up tight on the inside with the safety wire,
passed it through the corresponding holes in the sender flange and
gasket and then caught the first couple of bolts. With these in place, I
could remove the wire and finish bolting.
Winston Ellis
701/Suzuki
Bryan Martin wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> You may have to cut two slots opposite each other to make sure the
> slots are covered by the gasket.
>
> If I recall correctly, on mine the instructions called for the hole
> to be the same diameter as the outer diameter of the ring of screw
> holes in the plate. Then you could assemble the sender with two long
> screws threaded a couple of turns into the ring ....
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: XL engine mount fittings |
Jay, on the bolt locations. I assume these are the bolts that go through the
firewall that your steel engine mount attach to ? The placement of them are
critical because if they are off even a little the mount won't fit. That being
the case, when I was at that point I had already selected my engine and ordered
an engine mount. I used it to ensure the bolt location was correct. Best
template for perfect placement is the mount you intend to hang your engine on.
Hope we are talking about the same thing. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Impossible |
That may by fine for all you folls that have senders with center bolts,
but all us folks that have the ZAC supplied tanks and ZAC supplied VW
Rabbit type sendes are still stuck with a protrusion that is
substantially more than the thickness of the cork whether the cork is
compressed or not.
----- Original Message -----
From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Impossible
Folks, you that want to cut out and make a bubble in your wing for the
sender unit consider this, if you modify the tall center bolt and nut by
grinding, that reduces the profile. Second, when you fill the tank the
weight of it will settle the tank in the cork you put on the bottom and
reduce the profile even more so that the skin clears the top with some
to spare. At least that was the way mine went. FWIW, best regards, Bill
of Georgia
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: RE:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <savannah174@msn.com>
Hi Grant,
Would you have the web site address for TVA thanks
RJ
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 9:48 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant"
> <Grant.Schemmel@Aeroflex.com>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I actually picked up the kit as a partially completed project a couple of
> years ago, where the fuselage structure was complete and (sort-of) on the
> main gear. I had to basically ignore it up until about now, as I've had
> other priorities. However, recently bought a hanger, and am getting ready
> to move my aircraft factory out there from my garage. Hopefully I can
> really get started on it then.
>
> Pretty simple construction compared to a Zodie though, as it's all bent up
> 2x2 al. angles. At this point I just have the fuselage, empennage, and
> the wing spars as I was intending to build the metal version of the wings.
> Maybe Jim Bede's latest incarnation that uses al. honeycomb panels as ribs
> with a bonded skin. After some consideration, I think I'm going to try
> and lengthen the fuselage by maybe 12" to add enough rear seat legroom for
> real people/cargo, and I'm sure that's going to take awhile. I guess you
> could say I'm semi-scratch building.
>
> Planning on using a turbocharged Mazda 13B rotary engine to power it,
> unless I chicken out and opt for maybe an O-470.
>
> I'm not working with TVA, as this is an original kit from the 70's, and
> TVA has made a number of changes to the design - enough that I don't think
> the parts would fit together. I have a friend out here who has been
> working on a TVA kit, and it looks really nice, though he seems to be
> waiting a long time for parts kits to be ready. Can't say much about
> TVA's support, other than what I've heard second hand. I can put you in
> touch with the guy if you'd like.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Grant
>
>
> Time: 08:04:02 AM PST US
>
>
> Grant
>
> How do you like working on the BD-4? I am also interested in possibly
> building that plane. Are you building a kit or scratch building? How is
> the factory
>
> support and the plans? Are you going with a auto conversion or certified
> engine? Are you working with TVA, and how is their support?
> Thanks for your input
>
> Bob Spudis
> CH-701/912S 55hrs
>
>
> Notice: This e-mail is intended solely for use of the individual or entity
> to which it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary,
> privileged, company confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under
> applicable law. If the reader is not the intended recipient or agent
> responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. This communication may also contain
> data subject to the International Traffic in Arms Regulations or U.S.
> Export Administration Regulations and cannot be disseminated, distributed
> or copied to foreign nationals, residing in the U.S. or abroad, without
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> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
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Message 31
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Hi All I have just uploaded the plans for David Clays brake as well as
my own design used in The Scratch Building video from Homebuilthelp.com.
You can find them in the tool sections of HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch601.org/"www.ch601.org and HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com/"www.ch701.com .
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
--
Message 32
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| Subject: | XL engine mount fittings |
I asked Zenith the same question about firewall bolts back in February:
<I wrote>
My second question is about an apparent redesign in this area on some kits.
In photos of the firewall on these kits I see the head of a bolt facing
forward instead of the threaded stud with a nut. Is this a modification from
the factory or a change by some builders? If this is a factory change can
you tell me why the change was made? Also is the nut welded to the bracket
or just held with a wrench during assembly?
<Zenith replied>
Installing the nut on the engine side of the firewall, will make the nut
more accessible for installation.
So they didn't really say what was going on. But I have a theory. As you may
know Zenith shows two different kinds of motor mounts: ones with
washers/plates that bolt to the firewall with a short bolt (Rotax, Jabiru,
Continental and conical Lycoming). The other style of motor mount has a tube
about 1.75 inches long through which the firewall's bolts pass through
(Lycoming dynafocal and William Wynne's Corvair mount). I suspect that with
the quick-build kit they do not want to have to build long-bolt and
short-bolt fuselages.
-- Craig
Message 33
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
Hi Listers, for those of you who know Jon "CRASH" Croke you can find a 3
minute video of his return to flight in the Stories section of
www.ch701.com .For those of you who don't have a clue what I am talking
about then you really NEED to check out the stories section of
www.ch701.com even if you have a 601 you will learn something about your
engine installation.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
--
Message 34
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| Subject: | Gas tank fixed, Back in the air |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Venables" <roger@nwtradingpost.com>
Jon
Looks fantastic! An inspiration to all of us still building
Roger Venables
701 - busy on wings
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:00 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Thanks to those on the list... my gas tank has been repaired by way of their
advice... it turned out to be easy to do and very secure using the self
sealing rivet and prosealant. Not a drip as I inspect thru a lexan patch in
the bottom of the wing (cant find the nerve to drill rivets for that cover!)
Nice to be back in the air!
There is a wonderful article in this issue of Kitplanes on Frank Hinde's 601
with Subaru engine...detailing his experience of the auto conversion with
the plane. Good aircraft pictures, but no picture of Frank!
For those of you with high speed internet, there is a 3 minute clip of my
1st flite at:
http://www.rrsta.com/homebuilthelp/3Minute1stFLite.asf
Still a smile (maybe it wears off a little after 40 hrs?)
Jon
12hrs N701US
do not archive
Message 35
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net
No. Sorry David. I meant to send that email to my local EAA chapter. I sent it
to the wrong group by mistake.
Kevin
-------------- Original message ----------------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
>
> builder websites are posted in ch701.com and
> ch601.org. Builders just have to send a link to
> moderrator at ch601.org to get their site listed. Is
> this some thing like you were looking for Kevin?
> David
> do not archive
>
> --- kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by:
> > kevinbonds@comcast.net
> >
> > Looks good guys. One small thing that is
> > missing--that I'm sure you are already working
> > on--is links to our sites.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> >
> >
> > Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> David Barth
> 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
> Working on Wings
> www.ch601.org
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Seailing AN6 fittings, and length of fuel hose |
List
Should I put a little Sealube on the threads with Aeroquip AN6 fittings?
Also any tips on the length of hose I should leave sticking out of the root
end of the wing? (at the price of aeroquip hose probably not too much!)
Thanks
Roger Venables
CH-701 -busy on fuel tanks in wings
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