---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/27/06: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:08 AM - more fuel sender plate/hole (Zed Smith) 2. 06:22 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Robin Bellach) 3. 06:27 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Michael Valentine) 4. 06:50 AM - Re:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works (Schemmel, Grant) 5. 07:02 AM - Gas tank fixed, Back in the air (Jon Croke) 6. 07:18 AM - Re: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 7. 07:38 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Paul Mulwitz) 8. 07:46 AM - Re: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air (Dave Ruddiman) 9. 08:07 AM - Remove me from your e-mail thanks (Raymond D. Worley) 10. 08:14 AM - Re: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air (Jon Croke) 11. 08:24 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Phil Maxson) 12. 08:28 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Randy Bryant) 13. 08:49 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued () 14. 09:30 AM - First flight video (Zed Smith) 15. 09:36 AM - Re: Re:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works (NYTerminat@aol.com) 16. 10:06 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Robin Bellach) 17. 12:20 PM - Re: CH701 wing strut attachement vs. Savannah accident (Chuck Deiterich) 18. 12:51 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Bryan Martin) 19. 02:46 PM - Picked up Fuselage, Wheels and Controls (Scott Thatcher) 20. 02:49 PM - Jabiru 3300 (Sept) and Corvair(Oct) FWF classes in Cloverdale, CA (Craig Payne) 21. 04:16 PM - Re: New Site (David Barth) 22. 04:16 PM - XL engine mount fittings (Jaybannist@cs.com) 23. 05:12 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Jay Herron) 24. 05:48 PM - Re: XL engine mount fittings (Al Young) 25. 06:20 PM - Re: XL engine mount fittings (Jaybannist@cs.com) 26. 06:35 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Impossible (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 27. 06:38 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Winston Ellis) 28. 06:50 PM - Re: XL engine mount fittings (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 29. 07:32 PM - Re: Fuel Sender Impossible (Robin Bellach) 30. 07:32 PM - Re: Re:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works (Roger Roy) 31. 07:39 PM - Brake Plans (Zodie Rocket) 32. 07:42 PM - Re: XL engine mount fittings (Craig Payne) 33. 07:46 PM - BaCK TO FLIGHT (Zodie Rocket) 34. 08:00 PM - Re: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air (Roger Venables) 35. 08:14 PM - Re: New Site (kevinbonds@comcast.net) 36. 11:46 PM - Seailing AN6 fittings, and length of fuel hose (Roger Venables) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:20 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: more fuel sender plate/hole --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith All previous posts are absolutely correct. However......if you are not comfortable with trying to enlarge the hole then you can reduce the ring. Simply clamp it in a vise, saw out about one-quarter-inch of the "notch" in the ring, smooth the cut with a small file, and presto, fits well. You'll still have to use safety wire, string, magic, luck, etc, to get all the screws in place. Only problem is the "spacing" of the screws. Mark the sender and the ring so you know which way is north; it'll only fit one way. Regards, Zed do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:09 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> I got mine in by grinding them down a bit on the outside opposite the cutout, but your picture makes that look impossible. Is it some sort of optical illusion or is the hole a lot smaller than the inside diameter of the backing plate? As for the top, the way my fit it seems impossible to grind enough off the top to fit below the skin so I'm planning some domed or bubbled cover plates as others have done.. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:38 PM > So I have my hole for the sender (older style sender - top mount). > And, thanks to earlier comments from the group, I think I know how > much I can shave off to make it fit under the skin. > > Now, how on earth do I get the backing plate in there? As you can > see from the pictures, it ain't goin' through that hole. I see from > the photo guide that the new senders have split rings that can slide > in. Can I cut this one? Or, should I drop it through the gas cap and > fish it out. Of course, if I do that, then it is not coming back out > later (at least not easily or close thereto) unless I remove the tank. > > Anyone else find a good solution? > > Thanks, Michael Valentine > Still almost done with the first wing. > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:10 AM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued Thanks for the quick responses. The sender instructions I have call for the hole to be (I believe without having it in front of me) much less than 59mm - I am remembering 48mm or 43mm - either way it is the same diameter as the inner circle of the ring. I understand the principle of the notch in the ring, but according to the instructions I have (and think I have followed), the hole is still too small. Note here that this is a sender sent with a wing kit in 2003 - I know from the pictures that it is not exactly the same as those used today, but I don't know all the differences. So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I can use the notch in the side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense to me even though I don't believe it is how my sender instructions read. If that is the case, is there any reason I can't just cut a notch in the side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire hole? Sort of an abrubt oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a notch clear through the ring. Then I could slide the skin through notch, lower the ring in, and slide it back off the skin inside. From the new photo guide it appears that the new ring is split and a similar technique is used - I can't imagine that a 2mm notch in the ring is going to cause problems securely clamping the gasket on the other side. Thoughts or concerns with this solution. (I continue to ask about this possibility because it seems to be much easier than enlarging the entire hole. Going back with a flycutter by hand after I have removed the center of the hole does not usually produce very clean results, which I obviously need here!) Thanks again for the help. Nice to have people like Ed at a very similar building stage! Michael On 6/27/06, Edward Moody II wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" < dredmoody@cox.net> > > Hi Michael, > > Let me add a bit to what Paul told you (it's fresh in mind because I just > did it). The hole diameter called for is 59 mm. Don't make it any bigger > than that because there is very little of the inner ring overlapping the > edge at that diameter. If you open it much bigger, you won't have much of > the edge to squeeze on with the inner ring. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:51 AM PST US From: "Schemmel, Grant" Subject: Zenith-List: RE:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant" Hi Bob, I actually picked up the kit as a partially completed project a couple of years ago, where the fuselage structure was complete and (sort-of) on the main gear. I had to basically ignore it up until about now, as I've had other priorities. However, recently bought a hanger, and am getting ready to move my aircraft factory out there from my garage. Hopefully I can really get started on it then. Pretty simple construction compared to a Zodie though, as it's all bent up 2x2 al. angles. At this point I just have the fuselage, empennage, and the wing spars as I was intending to build the metal version of the wings. Maybe Jim Bede's latest incarnation that uses al. honeycomb panels as ribs with a bonded skin. After some consideration, I think I'm going to try and lengthen the fuselage by maybe 12" to add enough rear seat legroom for real people/cargo, and I'm sure that's going to take awhile. I guess you could say I'm semi-scratch building. Planning on using a turbocharged Mazda 13B rotary engine to power it, unless I chicken out and opt for maybe an O-470. I'm not working with TVA, as this is an original kit from the 70's, and TVA has made a number of changes to the design - enough that I don't think the parts would fit together. I have a friend out here who has been working on a TVA kit, and it looks really nice, though he seems to be waiting a long time for parts kits to be ready. Can't say much about TVA's support, other than what I've heard second hand. I can put you in touch with the guy if you'd like. Have fun. Grant Time: 08:04:02 AM PST US Grant How do you like working on the BD-4? I am also interested in possibly building that plane. Are you building a kit or scratch building? How is the factory support and the plans? Are you going with a auto conversion or certified engine? Are you working with TVA, and how is their support? Thanks for your input Bob Spudis CH-701/912S 55hrs Notice: This e-mail is intended solely for use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, company confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader is not the intended recipient or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. This communication may also contain data subject to the International Traffic in Arms Regulations or U.S. Export Administration Regulations and cannot be disseminated, distributed or copied to foreign nationals, residing in the U.S. or abroad, without the prior approval of the U.S. Department of State or appropriate export licensing authority. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail or collect telephone call and delete or destroy all copies of this e-mail message, any physical copies made of this e-mail message and/or any file attachment(s). ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:47 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Thanks to those on the list... my gas tank has been repaired by way of their advice... it turned out to be easy to do and very secure using the self sealing rivet and prosealant. Not a drip as I inspect thru a lexan patch in the bottom of the wing (cant find the nerve to drill rivets for that cover!) Nice to be back in the air! There is a wonderful article in this issue of Kitplanes on Frank Hinde's 601 with Subaru engine...detailing his experience of the auto conversion with the plane. Good aircraft pictures, but no picture of Frank! For those of you with high speed internet, there is a 3 minute clip of my 1st flite at: http://www.rrsta.com/homebuilthelp/3Minute1stFLite.asf Still a smile (maybe it wears off a little after 40 hrs?) Jon 12hrs N701US do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:08 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" The airplane is better looking than I am...:) Guess I'll have to go out and buy a copy! Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:00 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Thanks to those on the list... my gas tank has been repaired by way of their advice... it turned out to be easy to do and very secure using the self sealing rivet and prosealant. Not a drip as I inspect thru a lexan patch in the bottom of the wing (cant find the nerve to drill rivets for that cover!) Nice to be back in the air! There is a wonderful article in this issue of Kitplanes on Frank Hinde's 601 with Subaru engine...detailing his experience of the auto conversion with the plane. Good aircraft pictures, but no picture of Frank! For those of you with high speed internet, there is a 3 minute clip of my 1st flite at: http://www.rrsta.com/homebuilthelp/3Minute1stFLite.asf Still a smile (maybe it wears off a little after 40 hrs?) Jon 12hrs N701US do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:21 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz I don't know about the approach you are considering. I know the one with the proper sized hole works fine. It both allows the ring to be inserted in the tank and allows for good clamping of the ring for final installation. One thing to keep in mind - if you have problems with the sender installation you have to remove your leading edge skin to get to it for repairs. I don't think the fly-cutter is the right way to make this hole and it certainly won't work to enlarge it. I use a round thin plywood pattern made the size I want the hole. I then mark the final hole size with felt tip and cut the hole with a combination of snips and files. I have tried to explain this approach before and got flamed and called a "Kit builder" in the past. Still, I think it is the quickest and easiest way to make a hole in sheet aluminum. In your case, if you mark the final hole you can probably cut the majority of the waste metal away in about one minute and file the rest in another 5 or 10 minutes. Your approach of cutting all the way through the ring sounds interesting, but I think you will find you need some pretty heavy tools to cut through that heavy gauge steel. Then you have to figure out the impact of having the ring cut in the final position. Good luck, Paul XL fuselage do not archive At 06:26 AM 6/27/2006, you wrote: >Thanks for the quick responses. The sender instructions I have call >for the hole to be (I believe without having it in front of me) much >less than 59mm - I am remembering 48mm or 43mm - either way it is >the same diameter as the inner circle of the ring. I understand the >principle of the notch in the ring, but according to the >instructions I have (and think I have followed), the hole is still >too small. Note here that this is a sender sent with a wing kit in >2003 - I know from the pictures that it is not exactly the same as >those used today, but I don't know all the differences. > >So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I can use the notch in >the side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense to me even >though I don't believe it is how my sender instructions read. > >If that is the case, is there any reason I can't just cut a notch in >the side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire hole? Sort of >an abrubt oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a notch clear >through the ring. Then I could slide the skin through notch, lower >the ring in, and slide it back off the skin inside. From the new >photo guide it appears that the new ring is split and a similar >technique is used - I can't imagine that a 2mm notch in the ring is >going to cause problems securely clamping the gasket on the other >side. Thoughts or concerns with this solution. (I continue to ask >about this possibility because it seems to be much easier than >enlarging the entire hole. Going back with a flycutter by hand >after I have removed the center of the hole does not usually produce >very clean results, which I obviously need here!) > >Thanks again for the help. Nice to have people like Ed at a very >similar building stage! > >Michael ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:46 AM PST US From: "Dave Ruddiman" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" Jon, Nice video. Looks like you have been flying that plane for years. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:00 AM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" > > Thanks to those on the list... my gas tank has been repaired by way of > their advice... it turned out to be easy to do and very secure using the > self sealing rivet and prosealant. Not a drip as I inspect thru a lexan > patch in the bottom of the wing (cant find the nerve to drill rivets for > that cover!) Nice to be back in the air! > > There is a wonderful article in this issue of Kitplanes on Frank Hinde's > 601 with Subaru engine...detailing his experience of the auto conversion > with the plane. Good aircraft pictures, but no picture of Frank! > > > For those of you with high speed internet, there is a 3 minute clip of my > 1st flite at: > > http://www.rrsta.com/homebuilthelp/3Minute1stFLite.asf > > Still a smile (maybe it wears off a little after 40 hrs?) > > Jon > 12hrs N701US > > do not archive > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:04 AM PST US From: "Raymond D. Worley" Subject: Zenith-List: Remove me from your e-mail thanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Raymond D. Worley" Please remove me from your e-mail list Raymond D. Worley -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zenith-List Digest Server Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 1:59 AM * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-06-05.ht ml Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2006-06-05.tx t =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/05/06: 46 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - Vs: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com) 2. 01:28 AM - re; Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (fred sanford) 3. 02:19 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Roger) 4. 04:52 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Zodie Rocket) 5. 04:52 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Ashcraft, Keith -AES) 6. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield (n801bh@netzero.com) 7. 06:04 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings fl ight! (n801bh@netzero.com) 8. 06:06 AM - Builders photo's (Zodie Rocket) 9. 06:56 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Al Young) 10. 07:07 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (LarryMcFarland) 11. 07:07 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 12. 07:14 AM - Michel Royer (P.H. Raker) 13. 07:19 AM - Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) (N5SL) 14. 07:25 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (David Barth) 15. 07:50 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Big Gee) 16. 08:09 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 17. 08:15 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Robert Schoenberger) 18. 08:26 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Jack Russell) 19. 09:17 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Gary Gower) 20. 11:23 AM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Trainnut01@aol.com) 21. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: 801: Trimming the Windshield (Gary Liming) 22. 11:26 AM - Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed (Gary Liming) 23. 11:59 AM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Tommy Walker) 24. 12:05 PM - Low-speed Airspeed Indicator (Zed Smith) 25. 12:06 PM - Re: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! (Cleone Markwell) 26. 12:13 PM - Re: another Prop for sale (Southern Reflections) 27. 12:44 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed (Paul Mulwitz) 28. 01:00 PM - Re: Builders photo's (three-seat 601XL) (Gig Giacona) 29. 03:50 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bill Naumuk) 30. 04:22 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bill Naumuk) 31. 04:30 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Paul Mulwitz) 32. 04:51 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bryan Martin) 33. 04:59 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bryan Martin) 34. 05:03 PM - Running Corvair at Golden West Fly in (JohnKearney@ATT.NET (John Kearney)) 35. 05:14 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (Gary Gower) 36. 05:18 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Robin Bellach) 37. 05:31 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (Bryan Martin) 38. 05:39 PM - Re: Cordless drill outcome (Bill Naumuk) 39. 06:20 PM - Re: Drills and wiring (jsimons2) 40. 07:03 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (Paul Mulwitz) 41. 07:28 PM - Re: Low speed takeoffs and stall Airpseed. LRI (ron dewees) 42. 08:14 PM - Stabilizer Tips (Tim Juhl) 43. 08:14 PM - Stratomaster Enigma (John Hines) 44. 08:51 PM - Re: Stratomaster Enigma (Paul Mulwitz) 45. 09:47 PM - Vs: Builders photo's (Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com) 46. 11:50 PM - Re: Stratomaster Enigma (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:47 AM PST US flight! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com > It finally flew! > N701US, in its second incarnation > made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. Great! When you are done all flight tests, could you send all performance information to my email too! I'm very interested of them. jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi "Jon Croke" Vastaanottaja Lhettj: owner-zenith-list Kopio -server@matronics .com Aihe Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring 05.06.2006 07:42 brings flight! Vastausta pyydetn kyttjlle zenith-list@matro nics.com It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (aweak,unauthorizedRotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfectionexplained bymany of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will besummer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second wasmostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because Ihave just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:36 AM PST US flight! --> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford Congratulations Jon - and I want to thank you for being so forthcoming with the info on your spring problem. When we found that our springs were too strong, my partner wanted - even insisted that we put in some smaller ones. Only your story saved us. I've got 70 hours now, lots of fun. Thanks again................ Fred Sanford , California, 80 hp do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:29 AM PST US flight! --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:39 AM PST US flight! Jon, congrats! You have put a lot of effort into building your 701 =93Twice=94 but most importantly, you were willing to share with this list the reason for your re-build! Many have learned from your mishap and from that came the birth of HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"www.homebuilthelp.com , which is your ongoing determination to help all builders learn and avoid mistakes. This list is a great resource for learning but Jon has taken the time to produce video=92s which cover almost everything a new and even a seasoned builder needs to know in order to build and register a Zenith plane. As unfortunate, as Jon=92s accident was in his original 701 what spawned from that event has truly been a blessing. For those who have never visited his website at HYPERLINK "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"www.homebuilthelp.com have a peek, for new builders or those prospecting the building adventure the job Jon has done with his video=92s will eliminate two or more years of learning, not to mention the time saved in registration and building. So Jon, Congrats to you on your second first flight ! But more importantly THANK-YOU for your dedication towards the builders!! cdngoose Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK "http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) -- -- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:39 AM PST US flight! Congratulations Jon!!! Put a picture of it up on your CH701.com site, so that those of use still pounding away can ooohhh and aawwwwhhhhh:):) Once again, congratulations and keep us informed on flying status. Keith CH701 -- 8% -- scratch -- still cutting and pounding away!! N 38.9947 W 105.1305 Alt. 9,100' ************************************************************************* ****** It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ======================== ========= ======================== ========= ======================== ========= ======================== ========= ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intende d solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If yo u have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and d o not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industri es accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mai l. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:19 AM PST US I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The windshield blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I remember correctly once you have it fit you will need to trim it along the top where it mat es with the top plexiglas. Just go slow and will work work out great. On e thing I did to mine was to replace the clear top glass with a tinted o ne. It costs 30 bucks or so and I stay ALOT cooler in the cockpit. Any g lass shop close to ya will have it in stock. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Scott wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott Thx for the info Ben and Gary... Well, I carved out by the forward wing mounts. But, of course I am still 1/8" hanging over the firwall at the top centerline. When you trimmed the front of your windshields. How far left/right of the centerline did you trim? It looks like 330mm or so left and right of the centerline will produce the desired results? Any help is appreciated... Thx... -Scott __________________________________________________ ======================= ========== ======================= ========== ======================= ========== ======================= ==========

I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The wi ndshield blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I remember c orrectly once you have it fit you will need to trim it along the top whe re it mates with the top plexiglas. Just go slow and will work work out great. One thing I did to mine was to replace the clear top glass with a tinted one. It costs 30 bucks or so and I stay ALOT cooler in the cockp it. Any glass shop close to ya will have it in stock.

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- Scott <squiggles@yahoo.com> wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott&n bsp;<squiggles@yahoo.com>

Thx for the info&n bsp;Ben and Gary...

Well, I carved out&n bsp;by the forward wing mounts.  But,
o f course I am still 1/8" hanging over  the firwall at
the top centerline.

W hen you trimmed the front of your win dshields.  How
far left/right of the ce nterline did you trim?  It
looks like&n bsp;330mm or so left and right of the
centerline will produce the desired results ?

Any help is appreciated...

Thx...
-Sco tt

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________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:56 AM PST US fl ight! Right on Jon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the Phoniex has risen..... do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Jon Croke" wrote: It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engin e were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my proper y... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full p ower and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb o ver the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the de signer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a s imple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by ma ny of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it st ill is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my econo mic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to s pend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT vi ew... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some door s but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics... for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a fe w components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scrat ch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it your self the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechani cally safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to b uild when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...( but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accompli shed this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jonthe aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin)

Right on Jon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the Phoniex has ris en.....

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>  wrote:

It finally flew!
 
N701US, in its second incarnation (a&nb sp;weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the origi nal 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years o f building.  This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an econo my budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss).
 
I have a 1000' grass runway on my prope ry... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the d esigner, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (righ t side up)....  that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to.....
 
I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder -  with a si mple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained b y many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with n o special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly!  I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not a ccurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL!
 
Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to h ave a safe, fun plane....  No PAINT... it still flies great without paint!  I notice no difference in its performance or handling with out paint...saved a bundle in $$  (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time!  No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view.. . a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doo rs but they are not needed to fly!  No fancy gauges... just the bas ics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine!  
 
My first 701 was a kit (the one that di ed in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)...  My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own f abricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the ki t... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourse lf the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanica lly safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little in nacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to bui ld when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all t he skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(bu t I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... 
 
Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!)
 
Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees..
 
 
Jon
the aluminum butcher of Brussels  (Brussels, Wisconsin)
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:38 AM PST US EVERYONE , I need your pictures!!! Please send pictures of you or a loved one sitting in your unfinished plane making propeller noises, or just sitting in your plane is fine. Below is the best one yet from Rick Roberts , can you top that? Please send anything to HYPERLINK "mailto:pictures@can-zacaviation.com"pictures@can-zacaviation.com I am in a bit of a rush so please hurry I need about 75 pictures Thanks Mark Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -- -- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:11 AM PST US flight! Jon- great news. Congrats. I am just finishing up my re-build so I can understand where you are coming from. Best of luck in all future flights. Al Young N601AY- second time around ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Croke To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:00 AM PST US flight! --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland Jon, Congratulations. You've won the contest for endurance and the respect of everyone here for hanging in through what must have been a really tough time. Probably don't have to add "Do fly safe". Good luck and again, congratulations, Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive Jon Croke wrote: > It finally flew! > > N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb > spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden > voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch > built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were > a total financial loss). > > > Jon > the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:00 AM PST US flight! Jon, great story of success ! Many of us would have folded out tents and went home, but you battled back. You are to be commended for your ability and tenacity. A true aviator. Best regards, Bill of Georgia do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:47 AM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: "P.H. Raker" Would Michel Royer please contact me off-list. I need some information regarding your HDS for sale. Thanx muchly. Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:06 AM PST US Mark: I just sent you a few in high-resolution. Attached is a preview of one of them. Have a good day, Scott Laughlin --- Zodie Rocket wrote: > EVERYONE , I need your pictures!!! > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:01 AM PST US flight! --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Congratulations my friend! Fly safe and have a blast. I look forward to flying with you at some point. David --- Jon Croke wrote: > It finally flew! > >> > Jon > the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:54 AM PST US flight! Congratulations Jon--------- I really enjoyed your story and feel that this is what it is all about. I have a whole lot of respect for what you have accomplished and I wish the "movement" would swing back more towards the grass roots of things, vs. the 200 mph "glass" planes. I know first hand (from building my 701) when you go to a fly-in, and the person who will point out that "one rivet out of line" is the same person who hasn't even started building his airplane yet, but when he does, "all his rivets will be in straight line." ( I heard that more than once, from the "experts".) I flew my 701 for a year before painting it. I did enjoy the view with full Lexan doors, and I also had the "optional" windows which could be opened in flight. I think they were a nice feature as one could fly and rest your arm on the open "window sill", gave a lot of elbow room. ( I mention this to let you know, they were very inexpensive to build, afforded the same view as" no doors", yet kept the wind out.) Again, your story touched my heart, as my motto has been: " build it safe, build it to have fun, do the best I can with what I have to work with" Fritz--- Corvair -- plans building XL-- 90% done---90% to go Jon Croke wrote: It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) --------------------------------- countries) for 2/min or less. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:56 AM PST US flight! Jon...Awesome news! You have been an inspiration in pulling back from such a downer. My hat is off to you. Frank RV7a....First successful spray painting! ________________________________ [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:43 PM flight! It finally flew! ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:00 AM PST US flight! Jon . . . I'm very happy for you and look forward to reports on No. 2's performance - glide ability, landing characteristics, etc. Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Croke To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 12:42 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:30 AM PST US flight! Jon: I remember your saga with the trees very well. You sure did get back on the horse or in this case the plane. Congrats! Jack in los osos ca. do not archive Al Young wrote: Jon- great news. Congrats. I am just finishing up my re-build so I can understand where you are coming from. Best of luck in all future flights. Al Young N601AY- second time around ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Croke To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring brings flight! It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:04 AM PST US flight! Congratulations Jon!!!! I knew you could make it, Yes, was a good idea to build it second time. Lots of hours of flight and happiness in years to come.. Saludos Gary Gower. Do not archive. Jon Croke wrote: It finally flew! N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and engine were a total financial loss). I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet edge distances were more or less adhered to..... I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of flying I do they are just fine! My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe (I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about 30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this Zenith-List.... (thank you!) Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. Jon the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:06 AM PST US Bill I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a large deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws garage (3 inch screws) a 1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a RV7 and am now almost done with the wings and tail of my 601. I am still using the same drill and it still works fine. I have two battery packs, one is always in the the drill and the other is always on charge. The batteries do seem to require changing more often as they age but that is not much of a problem. If the DeWalt dies tonight I will buy another one tomorrow, just like it if I can. Carroll Jernigan XL ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:06 AM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming Yep, did the same thing - put grey tinted Lexan on the top. Trimmed a bit off the top so that it would lay down better with the trim strip in the photo, and the amount trimmed off the bottom was the same all the way around. Gary At 07:57 AM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >I trimmed the same amount all the way around the bottom. The >windshield blends nicely as it lays on the side skin. Also if I >remember correctly once you have it fit you will need to trim it >along the top where it mates with the top plexiglas. Just go slow >and will work work out great. One thing I did to mine was to replace >the clear top glass with a tinted one. It costs 30 bucks or so and I >stay ALOT cooler in the cockpit. Any glass shop close to ya will >have it in stock. > >do not archive > > >Ben Haas >N801BH >www.haaspowerair.com > >-- Scott wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott > >Thx for the info Ben and Gary... > >Well, I carved out by the forward wing mounts. But, >of course I am still 1/8" hanging over the firwall at >the top centerline. > >When you trimmed the front of your windshields. How >far left/right of the centerline did you trim? It >looks like 330mm or so left and right of the >centerline will produce the desired results? ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:23 AM PST US Congrats, Jon! At 11:42 PM 6/4/2006, you wrote: >It finally flew! > I swear this plane leaps off the ground at about 25mph > indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is relatively > close enough to say that this is STOL! That is one thing particular to the 701/801's - getting an airspeed indicator to work at "low" speeds. By way of experimentation, my Falcon airspeed indicator doesn't register until about 35-40 mph. My Dynon D10 doesn't come up until 40, either. This is pretty close to stall speed, so it would be nice to know of something that has some accuracy starting at 20-30 mph. My Lift Reserve indicator comes up sooner, and I do pay attention to that, but anyone know of an airspeed indicator that is more sensitive at the slower speeds? Anyone have any real experience with when the ultralight style airspeed indicators "come up?" Gary ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:01 AM PST US flight! Congratulations Jon! Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:43 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Spruce lists several indicators for the low-and-slow crowd at a bit over US$100. Some require a pitot that resembles a metal sewing thimble affixed to the end of a metal tube. Probably to gather more air in the vacuum of slow flight. Regards, Zed/701/R912/90+%/etc do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:17 PM PST US brings flight! Hi Jon, I've been waiting to see this e-mail message. Congratulations! Cleone At 08:54 AM 6/5/06, you wrote: >Jon- great news. Congrats. I am just finishing up my re-build so >I can understand where you are coming from. Best of luck in all >future flights. >Al Young >N601AY- second time around >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jon Croke >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:42 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: Once, a bad spring; now: this year's spring >brings flight! > >It finally flew! > >N701US, in its second incarnation (a weak, unauthorized Rotax Carb >spring brought down the original 701 of this N number) made its >maiden voyage after about 2.5 years of building. This was a mostly >scratch built 701, built on an economy budget (the first plane and >engine were a total financial loss). > >I have a 1000' grass runway on my propery... with trees at both >ends.... so I had but one chance to apply full power and hope that >this metal contraption would leave the earth, climb over the trees >and actually FLY... such faith we put in ourselves, the designer, >and the hope that we attached all the components properly (right >side up).... that our workbenches were flat enough... that rivet >edge distances were more or less adhered to..... > >I have 2 hours of flight and many touch and goes to attest that a >rather average builder - with a simple workbench that was never >leveled to the perfection explained by many of our readers here... >can in fact build a plane that flies the first time... straight and >level.... and can be landed easily with no special training... and >it IS a BLAST to fly! I swear this plane leaps off the ground at >about 25mph indicated... even tho that is not accurate, it still is >relatively close enough to say that this is STOL! > >Due to my economic restrictions, I also learned that there are a few >things that do NOT affect the ability to have a safe, fun >plane.... No PAINT... it still flies great without paint! I notice >no difference in its performance or handling without paint...saved a >bundle in $$ (just didnt have it to spend) AND saved me a lot of >time! No DOORS.... open cockpit... GREAT view... a little windy... >but it will be summer.... I will build some doors but they are not >needed to fly! No fancy gauges... just the basics...for the type of >flying I do they are just fine! > >My first 701 was a kit (the one that died in the trees...) The >second was mostly scratch (a few components purchased to save >time)... My observations on kit vs scratch: ... because I have just >shade tree mechanical skills, many of my own fabricated parts were >not of the precision of those that come with the kit... hard to to >get the size tolerances just right when you do it yourself the first >time.... so it is not a 'show' plane... but it is mechanically safe >(I hope!) and it flies just fine even with all of the little >innacuracies and edge ripples, etc, etc... and it took a LOT longer >to build when you have to make the parts..... and BTW... I used .020 >for all the skins instead of .016 and it ended up weighing about >30lbs more...(but I lost 15 lbs over the last year)... > >Truly could not have accomplished this feet w/o the aid of this >Zenith-List.... (thank you!) > >Now if I can keep this thing in the sky and out of the trees.. > > >Jon >the aluminum butcher of Brussels (Brussels, Wisconsin) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:15 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Southern Reflections" I read this info regarding your prop. I have one just like it therefore please inform me as to what incompatibilities you have detected. Anxious to hear from you. Joe G ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:13 AM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "gary k" > > Blue, 2-blade composite (wood core) Prince prop. 68" X 62", SAE1 > pattern. May be good for Corvair? Out performs Warp, covers wide range > of pitch settings w/o having to change pitch. Can't say enough about > Lonnie Prince and his props, awesome. About 40 hours on prop, still > like new. Used on Stratus but seems to be incompatible with 2.2:1 > redrive. $750 obo (paid $1000 and well worth it). > > gary > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:09 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >My Lift Reserve indicator comes up sooner, and I do pay attention to >that, but anyone know of an airspeed indicator that is more >sensitive at the slower speeds? I have installed a Lift Reserve Indicator in my XL, but I am a long way from flying. I want to ask you about your experience with this device. With it working at low speeds, why do you want a low speed airspeed indicator? Is the LRI sufficient to tell you when to rotate? Perhaps this is just a matter of having a backup indication. Paul XL wings. do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:03 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" You do realize that you have now disqualified your plane for LSA use. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38739#38739 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:14 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" Bryan- You hit on the one real question mark I had for the layout, and to tell the truth, I'm puzzled. I've had my work in the house inspected for insurance purposes twice over the years, and the only places I was required to use 10g was for the water heater and water pump. I have heaters in both my bathrooms wired with 12g that have never had a problem (I built the house in '88) and neither inspector said a thing about them either time. Everyone I've talked to around here said, yeah, you've got it right for the welder circuit. I'm getting 234V at the box, and the outlet is only 2' away. If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go with 10g. As far as the rest of the circuits, I can only run one tool at a time! Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:02 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > > You don't have that 30A welder circuit wired with 12 gauge wire do you? > It should be wired with 10 gauge wire. Other than that your setup looks > good as long as you're not going to be running multiple loads > simultaneously on the same circuit. > > On Jun 4, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > >> I installed a sub breaker panel from the main and have a 30A 240V >> circuit for the welder, 2-20A GFCI protected outlet circuits, and a 20A >> lighting circuit all connected with 12/2 w/ground. Outlets are double >> gang every 4', and 4' shop lights are every 6'. Can I quit now? I have >> space in the main box left for 1-30A 240 or 2-15A 120 breakers if need >> be. >> Please say I'm done! The price of Romex has gone up .30/ft in the >> past two weeks!!!! >> Bill >> do not archive >> >> >> > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. > do not archive. > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:34 PM PST US Carroll- Actually, I went in with the intention of buying a DeWalt, but was hooked by the Ridgid lifetime warranty for $10 more than the price of the DeWalt. God knows, they're probably both made in the same factory. The two exceptions seem to be the Pro Line Hitachi and the Bosch. I finally got to see both. The Pro Line Hitachi has awesome torque (140 in/lbs higher than the Ridgid, which is higher than any other brand I originally looked at) for the same 189.95 price, but twice the charge time and a 5 year warranty. Definitely worth considering. The Bosch is made in Switzerland (!), but the price makes you cringe. Problem is, Carroll, you can't rely on the old brand names any more. It wasn't too long ago when a Homelite or McCulloch chain saw was the best you could buy! My Subaru was built in Indiana, my wife's Ford in Mexico. Times have changed. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Trainnut01@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome Bill I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a large deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws garage (3 inch screws) a 1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a RV7 and am now almost done with the wings and tail of my 601. I am still using the same drill and it still works fine. I have two battery packs, one is always in the the drill and the other is always on charge. The batteries do seem to require changing more often as they age but that is not much of a problem. If the DeWalt dies tonight I will buy another one tomorrow, just like it if I can. Carroll Jernigan XL ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:00 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and >go with 10g. Bill, The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result of the current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard used in electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10 degrees Celsius. If you let the wires get really hot there is a risk of fire. Have fun, Paul XL wings do not archive --------------------------------------------- Paul Mulwitz 32013 NE Dial Road Camas, WA 98607 --------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:33 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin In most cases, a 30 amp circuit must be wired with 10 gauge wire. But after further research in the NEC, I see that welder circuits are an exception to the rule. Article 630 allows the size of the conductor to be reduced according to the duty cycle of the welder, so your circuit is probably correct. The voltage of the circuit is irrelevent, the current rating of the load is the important factor. The circuit breaker is usually sized to protect the wire in the circuit from overheating due to too much current flow. Your 240 volt electric space heaters are probably rated at less than 16 Amps which would allow a 20 Amp breaker and 12 guage wire. I used to be an electrician but I haven't worked in that field for several years so some of this stuff has faded from memory. On Jun 5, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" > > Bryan- > You hit on the one real question mark I had for the layout, and > to tell the truth, I'm puzzled. > I've had my work in the house inspected for insurance purposes > twice over the years, and the only places I was required to use 10g > was for the water heater and water pump. I have heaters in both my > bathrooms wired with 12g that have never had a problem (I built the > house in '88) and neither inspector said a thing about them either > time. Everyone I've talked to around here said, yeah, you've got it > right for the welder circuit. > I'm getting 234V at the box, and the outlet is only 2' away. If > my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go > with 10g. > As far as the rest of the circuits, I can only run one tool at a > time! > > > Bill -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:57 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin A ten year old DeWalt is probably not the same as a new one. The design was changed several years ago and tne newer ones aren't as good. DeWalt is now a division of Black and Decker, which is a division of GE and some of the worst junk in the history of electricity have come from GE. RCA used to be one of the better electronics firms until they were bought out by GE and now they make nothing but junk. On Jun 5, 2006, at 7:21 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote: > Carroll- > Actually, I went in with the intention of buying a DeWalt, but > was hooked by the Ridgid lifetime warranty for $10 more than the > price of the DeWalt. God knows, they're probably both made in the > same factory. > The two exceptions seem to be the Pro Line Hitachi and the > Bosch. I finally got to see both. > The Pro Line Hitachi has awesome torque (140 in/lbs higher than > the Ridgid, which is higher than any other brand I originally > looked at) for the same 189.95 price, but twice the charge time and > a 5 year warranty. Definitely worth considering. The Bosch is made > in Switzerland (!), but the price makes you cringe. > Problem is, Carroll, you can't rely on the old brand names any > more. It wasn't too long ago when a Homelite or McCulloch chain saw > was the best you could buy! My Subaru was built in Indiana, my > wife's Ford in Mexico. > Times have changed. > > > Bill > > do not archive > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Trainnut01@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cordless drill outcome > > Bill > I have a 14.4 volt DeWalt that is at least 10 years old. I built a > large deck using it to drive 3 inch screws, my mother in laws > garage (3 inch screws) a 1200 square foot hanger (3 inch screws) a > RV7 and am now almost done with the wings and tail of my 601. I am > still using the same drill and it still works fine. I have two > battery packs, one is always in the the drill and the other is > always on charge. The batteries do seem to require changing more > often as they age but that is not much of a problem. If the DeWalt > dies tonight I will buy another one tomorrow, just like it if I can. > Carroll Jernigan > XL > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:59 PM PST US Hi all, I will have my running corvair engine at the Zenith/Quality Sport Planes Booth at the Golden West Flyin this weekend. Come on by and lets talk corvair and the Zodiac 601XL. Best regards John -- John and Jean Kearney Builders Turbo Corvair Zenith Aircraft Zodiac 601XL
Hi all,
 
I will have my running corvair engine at the Zenith/Quality Sport Planes Booth at the Golden West Flyin this weekend. Come on by and lets talk corvair and the Zodiac 601XL.
 
Best regards
John
--
John and Jean Kearney
Builders Turbo Corvair
Zenith Aircraft
Zodiac 601XL
________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:54 PM PST US Hello Paul, I have mine installed in the 701, Is a diferent type of airplane that the 601, because the 701 has two diferent angle of attack in the wing. One without the slots working (normal approach) and another diferent angle of attack in the flare (when the slots beguin to work). We use our LRI calibrated at normal approach angle of attack for two reasons: First We fly at diferent altitudes here and diferent sizes of landing strips, so a slow aproach without loosing glide angle/speed is important. And second the STOL flair/approach in the 701 is so slow and close to the ground that sincerely, there is no time to glance at the LRI. We just keep the eyes on the strip trough the side of the windshield that instant before touch down... I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI installed, but I am very far from the kit looking as an airplane... Here is one good article that explains how the LRI works in a "normal" type of wing. (If there is something close to "normal wing" in modern homebuilt airplanes :-) In this article is an instalation in a RV6. Very similar way, was how it was explained to me by a local bush pilot that has one installed in his airplane and talked me to install one. http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive short field landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will say (in my case). Saludos Gary Gower. Paul Mulwitz wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >My Lift Reserve indicator comes up sooner, and I do pay attention to >that, but anyone know of an airspeed indicator that is more >sensitive at the slower speeds? I have installed a Lift Reserve Indicator in my XL, but I am a long way from flying. I want to ask you about your experience with this device. With it working at low speeds, why do you want a low speed airspeed indicator? Is the LRI sufficient to tell you when to rotate? Perhaps this is just a matter of having a backup indication. Paul XL wings. do not archive __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:56 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> While the whole shop is burning down and melting everyting in it you will briefly have plenty of light while you consider the choice of using an oversized breaker with undersized wire, and may develop a new perspective on dim lights. Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 6:28 PM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > > At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >>If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why and go >>with 10g. > > > Bill, > > The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit > breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result of the > current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard used in > electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10 degrees Celsius. > If you let the wires get really hot there is a risk of fire. > > Have fun, > > Paul > XL wings > do not archive > > > --------------------------------------------- > Paul Mulwitz > 32013 NE Dial Road > Camas, WA 98607 > --------------------------------------------- > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:14 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin The primary reason for a choosing a particular wire size is to prevent overheating due to current. But for long wire runs, voltage drop also becomes a factor, the wires should be sized to prevent a voltage drop of more than 3% at the farthest end of a branch circuit. If you don't follow this guide, you won't cause your lights to dim or circuit breakers to pop, your load will just run at under its rated voltage. For a motor circuit, this can be a problem as motors don't like running under speed. This is one reason major appliances can be damaged during a "brown-out". If you've ever run a large drill motor at the end of a long extension cord, you may have encountered this situation. A 50 foot extension cord will be rated at a lower current than a ten foot cord even if both use the same size wire. On Jun 5, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > > At 03:45 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >> If my lights dim drastically, or I pop a breaker, I'll know why >> and go with 10g. > > > Bill, > > The issue for what wire size to use is not voltage droop or circuit > breaker action. It is the temperature rise in the wire as a result > of the current. I don't know the building codes, but the standard > used in electronic equipment design limits temperature rise to 10 > degrees Celsius. If you let the wires get really hot there is a > risk of fire. > > Have fun, > > Paul > XL wings > do not archive > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:03 PM PST US All- Before I go any farther, let me tell you that my first arc-welding experience was cutting up junk cars in the middle of a field, with the welder connected with a 100' roll of 12 /2 to two 10A fuses in a barn. That said, I plugged a batch of high drain corded devices in 3 outlets, and turned on every light in the new shop. I was able to get a slight dimming of the lights. Save your breath. This is probably my only chance to build MY workshop, the way I want it. I've already spent more than I did on my kit, so what the Hell? I'll replace the 12/2 inlet lines with 10g ASAP. Bill ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:27 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" Go with the 10 gauge wire and be safe. Most welders require a 30 amp circuit due to their current draw. The only time that #12 gauge wire is allowed to be on a circuit that is protected by more than a 20 amp breaker is on A/C and refridgeration equipment. It is then limited to no more than 25 amps minimum circuit ampacity. This is due to the high, but short duration, startup draw of compressors. No wire is allowed more than 80% of its rating for continuous load. The other receptacle circuits should be fine due to the fact that you will probably never use more than one piece of equipment at a time. All of my info comes straight from the NEC (National Electrical Code). My qualifications?? Senior electrical inspector for the city where I live and over 28 years in the business. Jerome Simons very near future 601 HDS scrap builder Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38823#38823 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:10 PM PST US Hi Gary, Thank you for the article link on flying the LRI. I enjoyed reading it and got my ideas about it reinforced. It sounds to me like a much better instrument to use for critical airspeed control than the airspeed indicator. Of course you can still use the nose "Picture" on the horizon to control your speed as well, but the LRI sounds like a nice precise way to get nearly maximum performance from your plane on both takeoff and landing. I understand your comment about not wanting to take your eyes off the runway on landing approach to check the LRI. There may be several ways to deal with this problem. Let me suggest a few: 1. You can set up your approach at the desired LRI indication. Then look at the pitch on the nose of your plane and hold the same pitch while using the same power/airspeed and flap setting. This should hold the same LRI indication. 2. I have seen many AOA indicators - particularly the kind with colored lights - mounted above the instrument panel so the indication is easy to see while looking out the windshield. You could mount your LRI indicator either on top of the panel or at the top-most position in the center of your viewing image. This would make it very easy to find the indicator at the critical moments. 3. If you have already mounted your indicator at a remote location in your instrument panel, you might be able to make an optical path to make it visible from above the panel. This might be similar to the mirrors used in a "Periscope". Place one rectangular or oval mirror below the gauge and mount another one above the panel in line with the other mirror. Then you should be able to see the instrument face while looking out the windshield. In any case, I am happy I decided to install one of these instruments in my XL. I think I will put it on the topmost row of instruments - perhaps right next to the EFIS. Thanks again, Paul XL wings (nearly done) At 05:13 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >Hello Paul, > >We use our LRI calibrated at normal approach angle of attack for two >reasons: > >First We fly at diferent altitudes here and diferent sizes of >landing strips, so a slow aproach without loosing glide >angle/speed is important. > >And second the STOL flair/approach in the 701 is so slow and close >to the ground that sincerely, there is no time to glance at the >LRI. We just keep the eyes on the strip trough the side of the >windshield that instant before touch down... > >I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI >installed, but I am very far from the kit looking as an airplane... > >Here is one good article that explains how the LRI works in a >"normal" type of wing. (If there is something close to "normal >wing" in modern homebuilt airplanes :-) > >http://home.hiwaa y.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve-pg2.htm > >Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive >short field landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will >say (in my case). > >Saludos >Gary Gower. > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:38 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees Hi Paul and Gary, I can't speak to the 701 installation of a LRI but have had a LRI in my 601HDS for almost a year and a half. I posted pictures of the probe and indicator on Scott Laughlin's website and would not fly without it. My field is short and rough and I found that my landings were unnecessarily long and fast. Using the LRI I have shortened the takeoff and landing distance and cut down considerably on wear and tear on the plane and my nerves. I highly reccomend one. As far as being too busy to look at one while close to the ground I found that it's THE most important instrument to look at close to the ground. I mounted mine above the instrument panel so it's in my line of sight as I look out the canopy. A few ex-military pilots recognize it but almost all GA pilots are clueless as to it's function untill they see it in action. Total cost was less than $80 or so. Only downside is that the Dwyer differential pressure gauge used on mine as in indicator is an odd size-- I guess 3 or 3 1/2 inches so it's hard to put in line with other instruments. I have seen expensive and complex digital models that illiminate sequential red or green LEDs but I like the analog needle that gives immediate feedback on wing's lift. I installed it to let me know when the wing was about to stall so I could land slower but found that it's just as handy to lift off short in ground effect and watch the lift available rise to a safe level before rotating and climbing out Works just as well to give warning of an impending departure stall or if you do a high speed turn or chandelle it lets you know what the state of lift remaining is. If you ever fly with one you won't be without one. Just don't stick it in a corner where you can't see it easily. Ron Gary Gower wrote: > Hello Paul, > > I have mine installed in the 701, Is a diferent type of airplane > that the 601, because the 701 has two diferent angle of attack in the > wing. > > I am now building a 601 XL that will also have an LRI installed, > but I am very far from the kit looking as an airplane... > > Hope this helps. Because I am sure that the XL can make impressive > short field landings in grass strips if flow correctly... Time will > say (in my case). > > Saludos > Gary Gower. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:30 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" I'm sure this subject has come up before, but humor me and give me the benefit of your collective wisdom. I'm getting ready to fit the fiberglass tips to my horizontal stabilizer. Looking at the tips I see a few problems.... 1.) They don't fit very snugly within the end of the stab. When you rivet them will the rivets pull the tip's edges up to the contour of the skins or am I likely to get some wrinkles in the aluminum skin? 2.) The open edges of the tips are not straight (flat). The edge line is curved inwards towards the outside center of the tip. Should I sand or dress the edges until straight? 3.) There are some chips in the fiberglass coating around the edges. Any recommendation as to what I should use to fill and smooth these areas? Thanks! Tim -------- CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Horiz. Stab. & Elev. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=38844#38844 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:30 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool! http://www.mglavionics.co.za/enigma.html John R. Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Office: 479-878-2449 Mobile: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com www.craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:32 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool! It looks pretty cool to me. I think the best way to deal with this new design is to let someone else suffer the growing pains and wait for good reviews from actual airplane builders. That should take a year or two after they start shipping. For now I will stick with Dynon, Blue Mountain, etc. for my panel to be built later this year. Paul XL wings do not archive ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:04 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jari.Kaija@pkcgroup.com :-) http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/DSC03292.JPG and http://www.project-ch701.net/ch701_fuselage/DSC03291.JPG ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:56 PM PST US --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" At last! If you are in the US an tempted to buy one this is MGL's US dealer: http://www.sportflyingshop.com/ Great folks: both MGL and Sport Flying Shop. -- Craig -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:10 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Hines" --> Have you guys seen the Stratomaster Enigma? Looks pretty cool! http://www.mglavionics.co.za/enigma.html John R. Hines IT Manager Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Office: 479-878-2449 Mobile: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 John.Hines@craftontull.com www.craftontull.com Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:35 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" It's really how easy it is to land that plane.. you're only going about 40mph! > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" > > > Jon, > > Nice video. Looks like you have been flying that plane for years. > > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:37 AM PST US From: "Phil Maxson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" A fly cutter works fine. Just be precise. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair Northwest New Jersey >From: Paul Mulwitz >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > <> >I don't think the fly-cutter is the right way to make this hole and it >certainly won't work to enlarge it. <> ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:04 AM PST US From: "Randy Bryant" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" Take a look at how Scott Laughlin cut the hole in his tank, and prepared the ring: http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_5_03_SenderParts.JPG Thanks, Randy XL Wings - Plans Only Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 10:36 AM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz > > > I don't know about the approach you are considering. I know the one with > the proper sized hole works fine. It both allows the ring to be inserted > in the tank and allows for good clamping of the ring for final > installation. > > One thing to keep in mind - if you have problems with the sender > installation you have to remove your leading edge skin to get to it for > repairs. > > I don't think the fly-cutter is the right way to make this hole and it > certainly won't work to enlarge it. I use a round thin plywood pattern > made the size I want the hole. I then mark the final hole size with felt > tip and cut the hole with a combination of snips and files. I have tried > to explain this approach before and got flamed and called a "Kit builder" > in the past. Still, I think it is the quickest and easiest way to make a > hole in sheet aluminum. In your case, if you mark the final hole you can > probably cut the majority of the waste metal away in about one minute and > file the rest in another 5 or 10 minutes. > > Your approach of cutting all the way through the ring sounds interesting, > but I think you will find you need some pretty heavy tools to cut through > that heavy gauge steel. Then you have to figure out the impact of having > the ring cut in the final position. > > Good luck, > > Paul > XL fuselage > do not archive > > At 06:26 AM 6/27/2006, you wrote: >>Thanks for the quick responses. The sender instructions I have call for >>the hole to be (I believe without having it in front of me) much less than >>59mm - I am remembering 48mm or 43mm - either way it is the same diameter >>as the inner circle of the ring. I understand the principle of the notch >>in the ring, but according to the instructions I have (and think I have >>followed), the hole is still too small. Note here that this is a sender >>sent with a wing kit in 2003 - I know from the pictures that it is not >>exactly the same as those used today, but I don't know all the >>differences. >> >>So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I can use the notch in the >>side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense to me even though I >>don't believe it is how my sender instructions read. >> >>If that is the case, is there any reason I can't just cut a notch in the >>side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire hole? Sort of an abrubt >>oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a notch clear through the >>ring. Then I could slide the skin through notch, lower the ring in, and >>slide it back off the skin inside. From the new photo guide it appears >>that the new ring is split and a similar technique is used - I can't >>imagine that a 2mm notch in the ring is going to cause problems securely >>clamping the gasket on the other side. Thoughts or concerns with this >>solution. (I continue to ask about this possibility because it seems to >>be much easier than enlarging the entire hole. Going back with a >>flycutter by hand after I have removed the center of the hole does not >>usually produce very clean results, which I obviously need here!) >> >>Thanks again for the help. Nice to have people like Ed at a very similar >>building stage! >> >>Michael > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:02 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued --> Zenith-List message posted by: Thanks for the kind words Michael. You're right about the difficulty with a hole saw or fly cutter after the original hole is done. The only salvation I've found is to back the original hole with plywood clamped firmly in place. I don't see how you could do that on the tank except maybe to clamp a piece of plexiglas all the way from the inboard to the outboard tank edges. Then you could see through to align a hole saw, not the fly cutter. Cutting through the plastic first make a "collar" to keep the hole saw concentric on the metal. Better yet, I like your idea of cutting a slot through the inner ring. A hacksaw blade cut is thicker than the tank skin and wouldn't compromise the rubber gasket pressure on the outside of the tank. Probably the best solution in this case. Good luck, Ed ---- Michael Valentine wrote: > Thanks for the quick responses. > So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I can use the notch in the > side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense to me even though I don't > believe it is how my sender instructions read. > > If that is the case, is there any reason I can't just cut a notch in the > side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire hole? Sort of an abrubt > oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a notch clear through the > ring. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:05 AM PST US From: Zed Smith Subject: Zenith-List: First flight video --> Zenith-List message posted by: Zed Smith Congrats, Jon! Looks good. Noise abatement program must be working.....horses didn't seem to mind. Best Regards, Zed do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:36 AM PST US From: NYTerminat@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works Grant, Thanks for the info, sounds like you have a plan together. A hanger will certainly help you realize your dream. Good luck Bob do not archive In a message dated 6/27/2006 9:51:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Grant.Schemmel@Aeroflex.com writes: Hi Bob, I actually picked up the kit as a partially completed project a couple of years ago, where the fuselage structure was complete and (sort-of) on the main gear. I had to basically ignore it up until about now, as I've had other priorities. However, recently bought a hanger, and am getting ready to move my aircraft factory out there from my garage. Hopefully I can really get started on it then. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:31 AM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> DITTO! Flycutter works great for me. But unless the peice is jigged up in drill press I turn by hand. Takes just a minute or two for nice clean hole with smooth sanded edge. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 10:22 AM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" > > A fly cutter works fine. Just be precise. > > Phil Maxson > 601XL/Corvair > Northwest New Jersey > > >>From: Paul Mulwitz >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz >> >> > <> >>I don't think the fly-cutter is the right way to make this hole and it >>certainly won't work to enlarge it. > > <> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:41 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH701 wing strut attachement vs. Savannah accident The 701 plans show a rivet between the strut attachment and the angled brace that is attached to the "L" on the wing (this brace without rivet is clearly seen in the referenced picture). This rivet will provide support midway on the strut attachment and keep it from flexing. In fact, the directions on my 701 plans (not SP) and manual have a reminder to specifically put that rivet in. Chris H. must have been aware of the potential failure of the strut attach bracket without the rivet. Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: Jari Kaija To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 12:02 PM Subject: Zenith-List: CH701 wing strut attachement vs. Savannah accident I'm not sure, If you know this already, but it surely makes me do inspection hole to my wings! One year ago (2005) two pilots died in Norway, when Savannah lost one of it's wing. Savannah uses exactly same kind of wing strut attachement as CH701 uses and it fails by stress. There is links for pictures and service instruction: http://www.ilmailu.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=500.0;id =362 http://www.ilmailu.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=500.0;id =363 ---------------------------------- http://www.jarikaija.com http://www.project-ch701.net ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:11 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin You may have to cut two slots opposite each other to make sure the slots are covered by the gasket. If I recall correctly, on mine the instructions called for the hole to be the same diameter as the outer diameter of the ring of screw holes in the plate. Then you could assemble the sender with two long screws threaded a couple of turns into the ring and maneuver the whole assembly into the hole and install the rest of the screws. This would be much easier than inserting the ring and holding it in place with one hand while holding the gasket and sender with another hand while trying to thread a screw into the holes with a third hand. Only the outer edge of the ring and sender plate clamp the tank opening and you don't have to cut individual holes for each of the mounting screws. Since you already have a hole cut, if you go this route you'll either have to clamp everything up and use a fly cutter in a drill press or mark the new hole size and trim out close to it with snips and finish off with a half round file. I also made an access hole in the nose skin above the sender with a cover held in place by screws to enable easy repair or replacement of the sender later on. My sender is in the top of the tank. On Jun 27, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Michael Valentine wrote: > > So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I can use the notch > in the side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense to me > even though I don't believe it is how my sender instructions read. > > If that is the case, is there any reason I can't just cut a notch > in the side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire hole? Sort > of an abrubt oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a notch > clear through the ring. Then I could slide the skin through notch, > lower the ring in, and slide it back off the skin > Michael > > > On 6/27/06, Edward Moody II wrote: --> Zenith- > List message posted by: "Edward Moody II" < dredmoody@cox.net> > > Hi Michael, > > Let me add a bit to what Paul told you (it's fresh in mind because > I just > did it). The hole diameter called for is 59 mm. Don't make it any > bigger > than that because there is very little of the inner ring > overlapping the > edge at that diameter. If you open it much bigger, you won't have > much of > the edge to squeeze on with the inner ring. > > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:13 PM PST US From: "Scott Thatcher" Subject: Zenith-List: Picked up Fuselage, Wheels and Controls Hi All, Just wanted to let anyone know that is contemplating a pickup from ZAC that I visited the Zenith factory on the 19th and they loaded the Fuselage, wheels and gear along with the controls into my 2004 Town & Country Short Wheelbase van. I did remove the 2nd and third row of seats (prior to getting there -- I didn't leave them there) and was amazed to see the professionalism with which their staff loaded all the parts into that seemingly small amount of space. Some of the longer parts were rolled into diameters as small as 1-1.5 feet. I then proceeded to drive over to Wicks near Lebanon, IL to pick up some parts, then to Kentucky for a few days, NC for a few more and then back to Florida. It took me 6 hours to inventory and unload all the parts from the Van and store them in the Wing Box/Storage Cabinet. I'm having a blast! Scott Thatcher 601XL with Corvair Conversion Rudder, Stab and Elevator, Wings Finished. Now on to the Fuselage! ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:17 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Jabiru 3300 (Sept) and Corvair(Oct) FWF classes in Cloverdale, CA --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" William will be teaching a class on installing a Corvair on a 601XL from Friday, October 6th through Sunday, October 8th at Quality Sport Planes (aka Zenith West) in Cloverdale, CA (2 hours north of San Francisco in the wine country). Jim McCormick of Jabiru Pacific will be teaching a similar class for the 3300 Friday, September 8th through Sunday, September 10th. Details for both at: www.qualitysportplanes.com/qsp-2006_040.htm -- Craig ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:58 PM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Site --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth builder websites are posted in ch701.com and ch601.org. Builders just have to send a link to moderrator at ch601.org to get their site listed. Is this some thing like you were looking for Kevin? David do not archive --- kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > kevinbonds@comcast.net > > Looks good guys. One small thing that is > missing--that I'm sure you are already working > on--is links to our sites. > > Kevin > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:58 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Zenith-List: XL engine mount fittings The engine mount fittings in my kit are partially fabbed, with the welding done and the holes for the canopy hinge drilled. However, the holes for the 3/8" bolts that penetrate the firewall are not drilled. I can't find any guidance in the manual nor in the drawings for locating these holes. In fact, the photos and some of the drawings show a different fitting than the one supplied, and the photos show the bolt welded to the fitting. Confusion reigns, so any assistance will be appreciated. Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage Do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:16 PM PST US From: "Jay Herron" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel Sender Continued --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jay Herron" The VDO senders that I installed in my 801 called for the 59mm hole in the tank. No modifications neccessary. However, I bought another VDO sender (same part number) from Summit Racing for another project. It came with a poorly photocopied instruction and called for a 43 mm hole in the tank. There was no date on either instruction so I am not sure which one was older. I would go with the 59mm hole as it worked for me. Or call VDO and check with them. I can scan my original instructions if you would like to see. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43458#43458 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:52 PM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL engine mount fittings Jay- Check out page 6B7 for exact location of all 4 holes. Regards- Al Young ----- Original Message ----- From: Jaybannist@cs.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Zenith-List: XL engine mount fittings The engine mount fittings in my kit are partially fabbed, with the welding done and the holes for the canopy hinge drilled. However, the holes for the 3/8" bolts that penetrate the firewall are not drilled. I can't find any guidance in the manual nor in the drawings for locating these holes. In fact, the photos and some of the drawings show a different fitting than the one supplied, and the photos show the bolt welded to the fitting. Confusion reigns, so any assistance will be appreciated. Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage Do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:48 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL engine mount fittings Page 6B7 clearly locates all the holes in the firewall. I drilled them a long time ago. I still don't know where to drill the holes in the fittings. Jay in Dallas Do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:25 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Impossible Folks, you that want to cut out and make a bubble in your wing for the sender unit consider this, if you modify the tall center bolt and nut by grinding, that reduces the profile. Second, when you fill the tank the weight of it will settle the tank in the cork you put on the bottom and reduce the profile even more so that the skin clears the top with some to spare. At least that was the way mine went. FWIW, best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:44 PM PST US From: Winston Ellis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued --> Zenith-List message posted by: Winston Ellis Michael After much painful contemplation, I installed the backing rings in holes with the same ID as the ring by cutting a small gap in the ring and drilling the mounting holes so the gap was at the bottom. I then laced a piece of safety wire through two holes in the ring opposite the gap, fished the ends through the corresponding holes in the tank from the inside with a pair of needle nose pliers and then inserted the ring in the tank. I pulled the ring up tight on the inside with the safety wire, passed it through the corresponding holes in the sender flange and gasket and then caught the first couple of bolts. With these in place, I could remove the wire and finish bolting. Winston Ellis 701/Suzuki Bryan Martin wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > > > You may have to cut two slots opposite each other to make sure the > slots are covered by the gasket. > > If I recall correctly, on mine the instructions called for the hole > to be the same diameter as the outer diameter of the ring of screw > holes in the plate. Then you could assemble the sender with two long > screws threaded a couple of turns into the ring .... ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:44 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL engine mount fittings Jay, on the bolt locations. I assume these are the bolts that go through the firewall that your steel engine mount attach to ? The placement of them are critical because if they are off even a little the mount won't fit. That being the case, when I was at that point I had already selected my engine and ordered an engine mount. I used it to ensure the bolt location was correct. Best template for perfect placement is the mount you intend to hang your engine on. Hope we are talking about the same thing. Best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:59 PM PST US From: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Impossible That may by fine for all you folls that have senders with center bolts, but all us folks that have the ZAC supplied tanks and ZAC supplied VW Rabbit type sendes are still stuck with a protrusion that is substantially more than the thickness of the cork whether the cork is compressed or not. ----- Original Message ----- From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:33 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Impossible Folks, you that want to cut out and make a bubble in your wing for the sender unit consider this, if you modify the tall center bolt and nut by grinding, that reduces the profile. Second, when you fill the tank the weight of it will settle the tank in the cork you put on the bottom and reduce the profile even more so that the skin clears the top with some to spare. At least that was the way mine went. FWIW, best regards, Bill of Georgia ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:59 PM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Hi Grant, Would you have the web site address for TVA thanks RJ ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 9:48 AM > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant" > > > Hi Bob, > > I actually picked up the kit as a partially completed project a couple of > years ago, where the fuselage structure was complete and (sort-of) on the > main gear. I had to basically ignore it up until about now, as I've had > other priorities. However, recently bought a hanger, and am getting ready > to move my aircraft factory out there from my garage. Hopefully I can > really get started on it then. > > Pretty simple construction compared to a Zodie though, as it's all bent up > 2x2 al. angles. At this point I just have the fuselage, empennage, and > the wing spars as I was intending to build the metal version of the wings. > Maybe Jim Bede's latest incarnation that uses al. honeycomb panels as ribs > with a bonded skin. After some consideration, I think I'm going to try > and lengthen the fuselage by maybe 12" to add enough rear seat legroom for > real people/cargo, and I'm sure that's going to take awhile. I guess you > could say I'm semi-scratch building. > > Planning on using a turbocharged Mazda 13B rotary engine to power it, > unless I chicken out and opt for maybe an O-470. > > I'm not working with TVA, as this is an original kit from the 70's, and > TVA has made a number of changes to the design - enough that I don't think > the parts would fit together. I have a friend out here who has been > working on a TVA kit, and it looks really nice, though he seems to be > waiting a long time for parts kits to be ready. Can't say much about > TVA's support, other than what I've heard second hand. I can put you in > touch with the guy if you'd like. > > Have fun. > > Grant > > > Time: 08:04:02 AM PST US > > > Grant > > How do you like working on the BD-4? I am also interested in possibly > building that plane. Are you building a kit or scratch building? How is > the factory > > support and the plans? Are you going with a auto conversion or certified > engine? Are you working with TVA, and how is their support? > Thanks for your input > > Bob Spudis > CH-701/912S 55hrs > > > Notice: This e-mail is intended solely for use of the individual or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, > privileged, company confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under > applicable law. If the reader is not the intended recipient or agent > responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are > hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly prohibited. This communication may also contain > data subject to the International Traffic in Arms Regulations or U.S. > Export Administration Regulations and cannot be disseminated, distributed > or copied to foreign nationals, residing in the U.S. or abroad, without > the prior approval of the U.S. Department of State or appropriate export > licensing authority. > > If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender > by reply e-mail or collect telephone call and delete or destroy all copies > of this e-mail message, any physical copies made of this e-mail message > and/or any file attachment(s). > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:24 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: Brake Plans Hi All I have just uploaded the plans for David Clays brake as well as my own design used in The Scratch Building video from Homebuilthelp.com. You can find them in the tool sections of HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org/"www.ch601.org and HYPERLINK "http://www.ch701.com/"www.ch701.com . Mark Townsend Can-Zac Aviation Ltd. HYPERLINK "mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. -- ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:49 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL engine mount fittings I asked Zenith the same question about firewall bolts back in February: My second question is about an apparent redesign in this area on some kits. In photos of the firewall on these kits I see the head of a bolt facing forward instead of the threaded stud with a nut. Is this a modification from the factory or a change by some builders? If this is a factory change can you tell me why the change was made? Also is the nut welded to the bracket or just held with a wrench during assembly? Installing the nut on the engine side of the firewall, will make the nut more accessible for installation. So they didn't really say what was going on. But I have a theory. As you may know Zenith shows two different kinds of motor mounts: ones with washers/plates that bolt to the firewall with a short bolt (Rotax, Jabiru, Continental and conical Lycoming). The other style of motor mount has a tube about 1.75 inches long through which the firewall's bolts pass through (Lycoming dynafocal and William Wynne's Corvair mount). I suspect that with the quick-build kit they do not want to have to build long-bolt and short-bolt fuselages. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:13 PM PST US From: "Zodie Rocket" Subject: Zenith-List: BaCK TO FLIGHT --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" Hi Listers, for those of you who know Jon "CRASH" Croke you can find a 3 minute video of his return to flight in the Stories section of www.ch701.com .For those of you who don't have a clue what I am talking about then you really NEED to check out the stories section of www.ch701.com even if you have a 601 you will learn something about your engine installation. Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com -- ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:26 PM PST US From: "Roger Venables" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Gas tank fixed, Back in the air --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Venables" Jon Looks fantastic! An inspiration to all of us still building Roger Venables 701 - busy on wings -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:00 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Thanks to those on the list... my gas tank has been repaired by way of their advice... it turned out to be easy to do and very secure using the self sealing rivet and prosealant. Not a drip as I inspect thru a lexan patch in the bottom of the wing (cant find the nerve to drill rivets for that cover!) Nice to be back in the air! There is a wonderful article in this issue of Kitplanes on Frank Hinde's 601 with Subaru engine...detailing his experience of the auto conversion with the plane. Good aircraft pictures, but no picture of Frank! For those of you with high speed internet, there is a 3 minute clip of my 1st flite at: http://www.rrsta.com/homebuilthelp/3Minute1stFLite.asf Still a smile (maybe it wears off a little after 40 hrs?) Jon 12hrs N701US do not archive ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:15 PM PST US From: kevinbonds@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Site --> Zenith-List message posted by: kevinbonds@comcast.net No. Sorry David. I meant to send that email to my local EAA chapter. I sent it to the wrong group by mistake. Kevin -------------- Original message ---------------------- > --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > builder websites are posted in ch701.com and > ch601.org. Builders just have to send a link to > moderrator at ch601.org to get their site listed. Is > this some thing like you were looking for Kevin? > David > do not archive > > --- kevinbonds@comcast.net wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > kevinbonds@comcast.net > > > > Looks good guys. One small thing that is > > missing--that I'm sure you are already working > > on--is links to our sites. > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > > browse > > Subscriptions page, > > FAQ, > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David Barth > 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? > Working on Wings > www.ch601.org > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:32 PM PST US From: "Roger Venables" Subject: Zenith-List: Seailing AN6 fittings, and length of fuel hose List Should I put a little Sealube on the threads with Aeroquip AN6 fittings? Also any tips on the length of hose I should leave sticking out of the root end of the wing? (at the price of aeroquip hose probably not too much!) Thanks Roger Venables CH-701 -busy on fuel tanks in wings