---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/28/06: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:10 AM - fuel tanks again (Peter Barthold) 2. 05:41 AM - Re: Re:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works (Keith Ashcraft) 3. 06:33 AM - RE : fuel tanks again (Carlos Sa) 4. 09:43 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Continued (Slot) (N5SL) 5. 10:44 AM - Re: fuel tanks again () 6. 12:23 PM - Re: fuel tanks again (Craig Moore) 7. 01:46 PM - capacitence fuel probes (Big Gee) 8. 08:43 PM - Wing Wiring (Michael Valentine) 9. 09:18 PM - Photo Assembly Guides-701 (Stanley Challgren) 10. 09:30 PM - Re: Wing Wiring (Graham Kirby) 11. 10:05 PM - Re: Wing Wiring (Peter Dunning) 12. 11:43 PM - Gauges (Jari Kaija) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:56 AM PST US From: "Peter Barthold" Subject: Zenith-List: fuel tanks again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Barthold" Hello Listers, I thought, I'll ask while the topic is about fuel sending units. I am in the process of building my own HDS wing tanks. Got the sheet metal clecoed in form and now it's time to buy components and fittings. Is there any reason why I should not use a automotive tubular fuel sender instead of the standard floating lever unit? I expect a better dampening than with a free floating lever. Some of these tubular senders even have fuel pumps integrated (old BMW 3 series). I will use mogas on my VW conversion. Any thoughts? Carlos, if you read this, did you test your tanks for leakage yet? How did they come out? Are you going to use mogas? Thanks and Best Regards from Germany Peter Barthold HDS td VW conv. Tail done, Wing in progress www.petersprojekt42.de Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43538#43538 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:14 AM PST US From: Keith Ashcraft Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE:BD-4 was Cheap metal bending brake that works Roger, You might want to check out these two links, http://bd-4.org/ http://www.tvap.com/ (I'm not Grant, sorry for jumping in) Good luck, Keith CH701 -- 8% -- scratch Smyth Sidewinder -- 2% -- scratch Teenie Two -- bulkhead forms N 38.9947 W105.1305 Alt. 9,100' ****************************************** Roger Roy wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" > >Hi Grant, > >Would you have the web site address for TVA thanks >RJ > > >----- Original Message ----- >Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 9:48 AM > > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant" >> >> >>Hi Bob, >> >>I actually picked up the kit as a partially completed project a couple of >>years ago, where the fuselage structure was complete and (sort-of) on the >>main gear. I had to basically ignore it up until about now, as I've had >>other priorities. However, recently bought a hanger, and am getting ready >>to move my aircraft factory out there from my garage. Hopefully I can >>really get started on it then. >> >>Pretty simple construction compared to a Zodie though, as it's all bent up >>2x2 al. angles. At this point I just have the fuselage, empennage, and >>the wing spars as I was intending to build the metal version of the wings. >>Maybe Jim Bede's latest incarnation that uses al. honeycomb panels as ribs >>with a bonded skin. After some consideration, I think I'm going to try >>and lengthen the fuselage by maybe 12" to add enough rear seat legroom for >>real people/cargo, and I'm sure that's going to take awhile. I guess you >>could say I'm semi-scratch building. >> >>Planning on using a turbocharged Mazda 13B rotary engine to power it, >>unless I chicken out and opt for maybe an O-470. >> >>I'm not working with TVA, as this is an original kit from the 70's, and >>TVA has made a number of changes to the design - enough that I don't think >>the parts would fit together. I have a friend out here who has been >>working on a TVA kit, and it looks really nice, though he seems to be >>waiting a long time for parts kits to be ready. Can't say much about >>TVA's support, other than what I've heard second hand. I can put you in >>touch with the guy if you'd like. >> >>Have fun. >> >>Grant >> >> >>Time: 08:04:02 AM PST US >> >> >>Grant >> >>How do you like working on the BD-4? I am also interested in possibly >>building that plane. Are you building a kit or scratch building? How is >>the factory >> >>support and the plans? Are you going with a auto conversion or certified >>engine? Are you working with TVA, and how is their support? >>Thanks for your input >> >>Bob Spudis >>CH-701/912S 55hrs >> >> >>Notice: This e-mail is intended solely for use of the individual or entity >>to which it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, >>privileged, company confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under >>applicable law. If the reader is not the intended recipient or agent >>responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are >>hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this >>communication is strictly prohibited. This communication may also contain >>data subject to the International Traffic in Arms Regulations or U.S. >>Export Administration Regulations and cannot be disseminated, distributed >>or copied to foreign nationals, residing in the U.S. or abroad, without >>the prior approval of the U.S. Department of State or appropriate export >>licensing authority. >> >>If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender >>by reply e-mail or collect telephone call and delete or destroy all copies >>of this e-mail message, any physical copies made of this e-mail message >>and/or any file attachment(s). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > -- ************************************* *Keith Ashcraft* ITT Industries Advanced Engineering & Sciences 5009 Centennial Blvd. Colorado Springs, CO 80919 (719) 599-1787 -- work (719) 332-4364 -- cell keith.ashcraft@itt.com ************************************ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT, Inc. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:35 AM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: RE : Zenith-List: fuel tanks again --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa Peter, I am ready to test, but haven't had a chance yet. I haven't decided on the engine, but Jabiru is a possibility. I understand pro-seal is mogas resistant. Gre aus Montreal Carlos --- Peter Barthold a crit : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Barthold" > > Hello Listers, > > I thought, I'll ask while the topic is about fuel sending units. I am in the process of > building my own HDS wing tanks. Got the sheet metal clecoed in form and now it's time to buy > components and fittings. Is there any reason why I should not use a automotive tubular fuel > sender instead of the standard floating lever unit? I expect a better dampening than with a > free floating lever. Some of these tubular senders even have fuel pumps integrated (old BMW 3 > series). > I will use mogas on my VW conversion. > Any thoughts? > > Carlos, if you read this, did you test your tanks for leakage yet? How did they come out? Are > you going to use mogas? > > Thanks and > > Best Regards from Germany > > Peter Barthold __________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:16 AM PST US From: N5SL Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender Continued (Slot) --> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL Dr. Ed and Michael: That's what I did (cut the slot all the way through). http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_5_03_SenderParts.JPG I also made my hole a little oblong (see picture). But the most important thing about this installation is the ground. If you look closely you can see where I tack-welded the arm to the top of the sending unit. It is critical that the two parts make good contact and both of my sending units were intermittent even when bolted tightly together. Mine are the Aircraft Spruce universal senders (p/n 05-16710). Good luck, Scott Laughlin http://www.cooknwithgas.com/ Working on 2nd batch of LRI probes --- dredmoody@cox.net wrote: > Better yet, I like your idea of cutting a slot > through the inner ring. A hacksaw blade cut is > thicker than the tank skin and wouldn't compromise > the rubber gasket pressure on the outside of the > tank. Probably the best solution in this case. > > Good luck, > > Ed > ---- Michael Valentine > wrote: > > Thanks for the quick responses. > > So, one solution is to enlarge the hole until I > can use the notch in the > > side of the ring to slide it in. That makes sense > to me even though I don't > > believe it is how my sender instructions read. > > > > If that is the case, is there any reason I can't > just cut a notch in the > > side of the hole instead of enlarging the entire > hole? Sort of an abrubt > > oblong! What about my other idea of cutting a > notch clear through the > > ring. > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:01 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel tanks again --> Zenith-List message posted by: I used a capacitance type sender in my ultralight and it has been a pain in the butt to keep it calibrated. That's just one isolated experince, mind you, Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / wings ---- Peter Barthold wrote: Is there any reason why I should not use a automotive tubular fuel sender instead of the standard floating lever unit? I expect a better dampening than with a free floating lever. Some of these tubular senders even have fuel pumps integrated (old BMW 3 series). ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:58 PM PST US From: Craig Moore Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel tanks again --> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore Peter, I assume the tubular sender is one with the float inside the tube? The one thing I can think of that might be a problem would be that if the sender is not perfectly vertical, friction may prevent the float from moving freely. If you get one and do some tests, it may be a non issue. I agree that the damping would be better due to the small hole that the fuel column is flowing through. Best regards, Craig Moore A&P 701 builder wannabe --- Peter Barthold wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Barthold" > > > Hello Listers, > > I thought, I'll ask while the topic is about fuel > sending units. I am in the process of building my > own HDS wing tanks. Got the sheet metal clecoed in > form and now it's time to buy components and > fittings. Is there any reason why I should not use > a automotive tubular fuel sender instead of the > standard floating lever unit? I expect a better > dampening than with a free floating lever. Some of > these tubular senders even have fuel pumps > integrated (old BMW 3 series). > I will use mogas on my VW conversion. > Any thoughts? > > Carlos, if you read this, did you test your tanks > for leakage yet? How did they come out? Are you > going to use mogas? > > Thanks and > > Best Regards from Germany > > Peter Barthold > > HDS td VW conv. > Tail done, Wing in progress > www.petersprojekt42.de > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43538#43538 > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:53 PM PST US From: Big Gee Subject: Zenith-List: capacitence fuel probes Ed--- I had the same problem when I had capacitance probes in my 701. I even put finger nail polish on the adjustment screws-------- will not be putting them in my 601 XL-------- this time I am keeping it simple. Fritz --- Corvair, 601 XL scratch builder, 90/90----> Zenith-List message posted by: I used a capacitance type sender in my ultralight and it has been a pain in the butt to keep it calibrated. That's just one isolated experince, mind you, Ed Moody II Rayne, LA 601XL / wings __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:45 PM PST US From: "Michael Valentine" Subject: Zenith-List: Wing Wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" Listers - Is there anything wrong with having the wiring go through the same lightening holes that the control cables will run through as long as they are kept to the edge? This would include strobe/nav, taxi/landing, and aileron trim cables (and probably tubing for an AOA). Just thought this might be easier than drilling a grommet hole, but obviously I don't want to interfere with the cables. Thanks, Michael Still finishing the first wing. do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:48 PM PST US From: Stanley Challgren Subject: Zenith-List: Photo Assembly Guides-701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren List: i'm just about done with the first wing and discovered their are new Photo Assembly guides for just about the entire 701 wing. I was at the rudder workshop when they first appeared but no one mentioned them. The only other recent change is to the landing gear. If anyone missed them they are at www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7up- manuals.html Stan ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:49 PM PST US From: "Graham Kirby" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wing Wiring Michael, You can always use lightweight PVC conduit to be sure that the wiring stays in a safe place. I attached mine to brackets on the ribs with adel clamps. The big benefit is that you can postpone the wiring until later in the build. It's also very easy to change wires without unzipping the wing skin. (Photo Attached) Graham Kirby. 601HD Listers - Is there anything wrong with having the wiring go through the same lightening holes that the control cables will run through as long as they are kept to the edge? This would include strobe/nav, taxi/landing, and aileron trim cables (and probably tubing for an AOA). Just thought this might be easier than drilling a grommet hole, but obviously I don't want to interfere with the cables. Thanks, Michael Still finishing the first wing. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:48 PM PST US From: Peter Dunning Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing Wiring --> Zenith-List message posted by: Peter Dunning Graham/Michael, With respect, and wishing to make sure you don't tred on the toes of officialdom, it may be prudent to check that any applicable fire ratings for PVC usage are observed. I recall PVC burns with toxic gas emissions. Other listers may be better aware of any local constraints. cheers Peter Dunning CH601HD ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:28 PM Michael, You can always use lightweight PVC conduit to be sure that the wiring stays in a safe place. I attached mine to brackets on the ribs with adel clamps. The big benefit is that you can postpone the wiring until later in the build. It's also very easy to change wires without unzipping the wing skin. (Photo Attached) Graham Kirby. 601HD Listers - Is there anything wrong with having the wiring go through the same lightening holes that the control cables will run through as long as they are kept to the edge? This would include strobe/nav, taxi/landing, and aileron trim cables (and probably tubing for an AOA). Just thought this might be easier than drilling a grommet hole, but obviously I don't want to interfere with the cables. Thanks, Michael Still finishing the first wing. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:50 PM PST US From: "Jari Kaija" Subject: Zenith-List: Gauges --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" I can't wait, that I get my plane ready to fly :) It was surprising, how much this instrument panel weights. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43687#43687 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/news_dsc03791_673.jpg