Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Sorry List..goofed again (Rick R)
2. 03:51 AM - Re: Jon Croke unfortunate incident again (Rick R)
3. 06:03 AM - Re: Just Couldn't Resist / Checking XL Parts (2thesky)
4. 07:14 AM - Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER (Bill Naumuk)
5. 07:17 AM - Rear stick pressure (Jim)
6. 07:20 AM - Sick humor or an inside joke? (Bill Naumuk)
7. 07:25 AM - Serial Number 6483 (Jimbo)
8. 07:29 AM - Re: Sorry List..goofed again (Tommy Walker)
9. 07:47 AM - Re: Serial Number 6483 (Jack Russell)
10. 07:51 AM - Re: Rear stick pressure (Jack Russell)
11. 08:06 AM - helping out Jon (Hudsonmusic1@aol.com)
12. 08:42 AM - Re: Serial Number 6483 (Dave Ruddiman)
13. 08:42 AM - Re: helping out Jon (Bill Stuart)
14. 09:03 AM - Re: Rear stick pressure (Jim)
15. 09:28 AM - Re: helping out Jon (Zodie Rocket)
16. 09:28 AM - Re: helping out Jon (ihab.awad@gmail.com)
17. 09:45 AM - Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER (jsimons2)
18. 09:52 AM - Re: Serial Number 6483 (jsimons2)
19. 10:04 AM - Re: Rear Wing Channel in Fuselage (Al Young)
20. 10:04 AM - Re: helping out Jon (Zodie Rocket)
21. 10:16 AM - Re: Jon Croke unfortunate incident again (jsimons2)
22. 10:46 AM - Re:Rear Wing Channel in Fuselage (Scott Thatcher)
23. 10:51 AM - Re: Serial Number 6483 (LHusky@aol.com)
24. 10:54 AM - Rear Longerons on 601XL (Scott Thatcher)
25. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER (Bill Naumuk)
26. 11:42 AM - Re: Rear Longerons on 601XL (Jaybannist@cs.com)
27. 11:48 AM - elevator twist (john butterfield)
28. 12:12 PM - Global challenge to assist Jon... (CH701)
29. 12:46 PM - Re: Rear Longerons on 601XL (Paul Mulwitz)
30. 12:52 PM - Re: elevator twist (Chuck Deiterich)
31. 01:18 PM - Mounting Horizontal Tail and Elevator on CH701 (john swanson)
32. 01:30 PM - Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry (Big Gee)
33. 01:45 PM - Re: Rear Longerons on 601XL (Paul Mulwitz)
34. 01:45 PM - Re: Serial Number 6483 (Dave Ruddiman)
35. 02:18 PM - 22000 MF Capacitor (Tommy Walker)
36. 03:27 PM - Re: 22000 MF Capacitor (Paul Mulwitz)
37. 03:39 PM - 601HD cowl (George Swinford)
38. 03:47 PM - Ratchet Tiedowns (Dave VanLanen)
39. 04:15 PM - Re: Rear stick pressure (Bryan Martin)
40. 04:23 PM - Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry (Bryan Martin)
41. 04:39 PM - Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry (Gary Boothe)
42. 04:55 PM - Re: 601HD cowl (LarryMcFarland)
43. 04:57 PM - Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- (Paul Mulwitz)
44. 05:03 PM - Re: 22000 MF Capacitor (Tommy Walker)
45. 05:13 PM - Re: 601HD cowl (Bryan Martin)
46. 05:14 PM - Re: Mounting Horizontal Tail and Elevator on CH701 (Rick R)
47. 05:31 PM - Re: Ratchet Tiedowns (Robin Bellach)
48. 05:33 PM - Re: Ratchet Tiedowns (Jaybannist@cs.com)
49. 05:40 PM - Re: Ratchet Tiedowns (Bryan Martin)
50. 06:00 PM - Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry (Bill Naumuk)
51. 06:05 PM - Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- (Bryan Martin)
52. 06:05 PM - Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry (Bill Naumuk)
53. 06:20 PM - Rear Wing Spar (Gary Boothe)
54. 06:26 PM - 7 to go (Bill Naumuk)
55. 06:27 PM - Re: Ratchet Tiedowns (Gary Boothe)
56. 06:27 PM - Re: Rear stick pressure (Jim)
57. 06:35 PM - Re: Rear Wing Spar (Michael Valentine)
58. 06:38 PM - Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry (Gary Boothe)
59. 06:53 PM - Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry (Bill Naumuk)
60. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER (Craig Payne)
61. 07:16 PM - Re: Rear Wing Spar (Gary Boothe)
62. 08:34 PM - Re: Rear Wing Spar (Dave Ruddiman)
63. 08:53 PM - Re: Mounting Horizontal Tail and Elevator on CH701 (NYTerminat@aol.com)
64. 09:11 PM - Re: Fuel system poser (NYTerminat@aol.com)
65. 09:17 PM - Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls (John Hines)
66. 09:18 PM - Re: Serial Number 6483 (LHusky@aol.com)
67. 09:43 PM - Re: Serial Number 6483 (Zodie Rocket)
68. 09:58 PM - Matt - Request from Ed Welander's widow (Craig Moore)
69. 10:04 PM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls (Zodie Rocket)
70. 10:06 PM - Fuel System Poser - solved! (fred sanford)
71. 10:27 PM - Re: Serial Number 6483 (Dave Ruddiman)
72. 10:33 PM - Re: Serial Number 6483 (Dave Ruddiman)
73. 11:06 PM - Re: Rear Wing Spar (Gary Boothe)
74. 11:31 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
75. 11:46 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Sorry List..goofed again |
Sorry list..this bites my butt every time. This was meant for Tommy.
Do not archive.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Jon Croke unfortunate incident again |
tommy,
Good to hear from you. Well I haven't got much done at all. Since S&F it has
been just one thing at home and work after another. But I have started back
to putting in a couple of hours on it a day. I too have done a little wiring...not
much though. I took my electric flap option off and went back to the manual
handle so I had to redo that. I have done all the rudder fairleads and
pulleys along with running the rudder cable. Today, hopefully, I will mount the
rudder henge plates. At Oskosh this year, I hope my cowling/radiator package
will be ready to be picked up. Then I can mount the engine package. (1.3L
Geo)
Have you been hitting it at a pretty steady pace? If you ever come down to Aircraft
Spruce give me a holla...I live only about 6 miles from it..we could compare
rivets or something.
You going to Oskosh?? What engine have you decided on?
Cheers,
Rick
Sharpsburg, GA. USA
http://www.n701rr.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Just Couldn't Resist / Checking XL Parts |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "2thesky" <biggerspurs@hotmail.com>
Cut to size, bend to fit, paint to match!
--------
Every takeoff is optional, but every landing is mandatory!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44116#44116
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER |
A word of warning about Stick+Rudder- don't try those techniques
when dual with one of the current crop of CFIs- they'll have a heart
attack.
On the other hand, the old hands will get a smile on their face and
have a blast showing you a couple of other tricks that just might save
your bacon some day.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Big Gee
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER
List
I have been folowing the thread on "the bubble & the gravity flow fuel
system. I would recommend puting a modified vented fuel cap like is
shown in, Tony Bingelis' book, THE SPORTPLANE BUILDER on page 271.
In my opinion (not worth much) Tony Bingelis is to homebuilding
airplanes, as William Wynne is to Corvair engine conversions: Both
experts in their fields.
For those who don't know: Tony Bingelis' 4 book set can be
purchased from Aircraft Spruce for about $75--------- in my 2004/2005
catalog they are listed on page 623----- one heck of a deal--- you can
buy them individually for about $20.00----------By buying this set
"Tony" could save you that $75 many times over.
I am not rich by any means!!!! I do not have a "library" of aircraft
books, but I do feel: Tony Bingelis' set of 4 and STICK AND RUDDER
should be owned by everyone building and flying an airplane.
Heck, maybe this advice is worh 10 cents ???
Fritz ---Corvair---601XLscratch building---- 90/90
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different.
Just radically better.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Rear stick pressure |
Having flown my XL yesterday for the first time after 2 1/2 yrs of building time,
I found it to be nose heavy. From take off to landing I had to maintain
constant back pressure on the stick. Wondering if anyone else has experienced
this characteristic on their XL?
I've checked the weight and balance again and feel it's within limits plus hate
adding weight to the tail end if that's not the real problem. I've thought
of lowering the front of the stabilizer and even lowering the rear wing spar
changing the attach angle.
Does anyone out there have any other suggestions or ideas?
Thanks, N 105JT
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting
at 1/min.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Sick humor or an inside joke? |
All-
I don't know what to make of this one.
There was a recent local crash involving a CFI and student that,
sadly, took the life of the CFI. The TV crew asked one of the airport
bums if he thought the problem was engine related, and he said "The
engine definitely quit".
The wreck shown in the crash scene footage was that of an old
Schweitzer 2 place glider.
Bill
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Serial Number 6483 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com>
After building a rudder at Golden West, CH601XL serial
number 6483 is officially under construction.
The plans arrived by UPS today, so I now have a serial
number, and the rest of the tail kit was shipped yesterday.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Sorry List..goofed again |
Rick, I started it.... I just switched from the daily digest to a steady
stream of emails and haven't figured out how to reply to an individual yet.
I am supposed to be a techy so that's why I can't figure it out. LOL
Do Not Archive
Tommy walker in Alabama
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick R
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 5:48 AM
To: 701 List
Subject: Zenith-List: Sorry List..goofed again
Sorry list..this bites my butt every time. This was meant for Tommy.
Do not archive.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Serial Number 6483 |
Jimbo: I know you can't wait for the rest of the kit to get going. Down the road
I am sure you will have some times why you wonder why you ordered the thing
in the first place. Just keep riveting and you will be flying soon. I was at the
golden west sat with the red zodie in the Jabiru booth. Jack in Fresno Ca
do not archive
Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo
After building a rudder at Golden West, CH601XL serial
number 6483 is officially under construction.
The plans arrived by UPS today, so I now have a serial
number, and the rest of the tail kit was shipped yesterday.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rear stick pressure |
Jim: I also did not have enough up trim to take the back pressure off of the stick.
I riveted a 1" tab to the back of the trim tab with a little down bend and
now I have lots of up. The back pressure is quite a bit less with 2 in the
cockpit. jack
Jim <aspen1150@yahoo.com> wrote: Having flown my XL yesterday for the first
time after 2 1/2 yrs of building time, I found it to be nose heavy. From take
off to landing I had to maintain constant back pressure on the stick. Wondering
if anyone else has experienced this characteristic on their XL?
I've checked the weight and balance again and feel it's within limits plus hate
adding weight to the tail end if that's not the real problem. I've thought
of lowering the front of the stabilizer and even lowering the rear wing spar
changing the attach angle.
Does anyone out there have any other suggestions or ideas?
Thanks, N 105JT
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting
at 1/min.
Message 11
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I ordered 3 videos from Jon. I hope he gets back in the air soon and has
better luck this time. Jeff Hudson/Kentucky 601 XL
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Serial Number 6483 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Jimbo,
I was at Golden West. Maybe you're one of the guys I saw building rudders.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 7:24 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com>
>
> After building a rudder at Golden West, CH601XL serial
> number 6483 is officially under construction.
>
> The plans arrived by UPS today, so I now have a serial
> number, and the rest of the tail kit was shipped yesterday.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Stuart" <billstuart25@hotmail.com>
I have just ordered the wiring basics dvd from www.homebuilthelp.com .
Having previously purchased the Scratch Building Basics i can say that it
was well worth the money .I had already scratch built my rudder( CH 701 )
,before they came out with the latest dvd , but i still found a lot of
usefull info and tricks that would have saved me numours hours of time if it
had been available.
I was holding off ordering the wiring dvd as i,m not anyware near that part
of my build , however i feel that its somthing i will use in the future and
its the least i can do to support Jon.
Jon has provin Twice now how safe the Zenith design is. My hat is off to him
, although i think maybe its time he handed over the Test Pilot duties for
the 701 to someone else lol .
Thanks again Jon .
Bill Stuart
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rear stick pressure |
Thanks Jack, I give that a try.
Jim
Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Jim: I also did not have enough up trim to take the back pressure off of the
stick. I riveted a 1" tab to the back of the trim tab with a little down bend
and now I have lots of up. The back pressure is quite a bit less with 2 in the
cockpit. jack
Jim <aspen1150@yahoo.com> wrote: Having flown my XL yesterday for the first
time after 2 1/2 yrs of building time, I found it to be nose heavy. From take
off to landing I had to maintain constant back pressure on the stick. Wondering
if anyone else has experienced this characteristic on their XL?
I've checked the weight and balance again and feel it's within limits plus hate
adding weight to the tail end if that's not the real problem. I've thought
of lowering the front of the stabilizer and even lowering the rear wing spar
changing the attach angle.
Does anyone out there have any other suggestions or ideas?
Thanks, N 105JT
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting
at 1/min.
---------------------------------
Message 15
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Jeff and Bill I would like to thank you both for your kindness in
helping out a friend of this list. Every little bit from everyone will
help Jon get over the Hospital Bills and get back on track to building.
It=92s a small thing for each of us and we get a great DVD out of the
bargain, but it is huge for Jon to get back on track. Thanks Again Guys
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
HYPERLINK "http://www.ch601.org"www.ch601.org / HYPERLINK
"http://www.ch701.com"www.ch701.com/ HYPERLINK
"http://www.Osprey2.com"www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Hudsonmusic1@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:05 AM
I ordered 3 videos from Jon. I hope he gets back in the air soon and
has better luck this time. Jeff Hudson/Kentucky 601 XL
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
--
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: helping out Jon |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
On 7/1/06, Bill Stuart <billstuart25@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Jon has provin Twice now how safe the Zenith design is. ...
Yes, in fact I'm beginning to suspect he's on Chris Heintz's payroll.... ;)
Last night, my wife and I watched a DVD of "The World's Fastest Indian" --
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0412080/
and, apart from recommending it to all of us shopheads, I couldn't
help but draw a parallel between Burt Munro's dogged determination to
build and rebuild in the face of numerous mechanical disasters and Jon
Croke. In fact, if you do a Google search, you'll find that the movie
doesn't even scratch the surface of what this guy did with his own
hands. We should all watch the movie and think good thoughts about
Jon. :)
Regards,
Ihab
--
Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" <jsimons4@triad.rr.com>
Hmmmm, maybe I should give the book back to my brother in law. He had it from his
flight instruction many years ago and loaned it to me since I want to get my
PPL. Better yet, I'll go ahead and read it and perhaps get kicked out of flight
school. LOL [Laughing]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44156#44156
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Serial Number 6483 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" <jsimons4@triad.rr.com>
You lucky dog!! My CH601HDS plans are in transit. :D :D At least, that's what
the e-mail I got from ZAC said yesterday. Should arrive on Wednesday and then
the review process begins. I won't start actual construction until I am comfortably
familiar with the plans and manual. Call me cautious if you want. My wife
calls me a perfectionist. [Twisted Evil]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44160#44160
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Wing Channel in Fuselage |
Jay- Don't install the 6B5-2 until you have the center wing spar
position jig (6B-13) in place. Al Young
601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rear Wing Channel in Fuselage
In my ZAC pictoral instructions, I have looked and looked for advice
on clecoing (or riveting) the rear channel in the fuselage (6B5-2) to
the bottom fuselage skin, and find nothing. I know, from the drawings,
that it requires A5s at pitch 40, but no clue as to when in the process
it should be done. Anyone have an answer for me?
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage.
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zodie Rocket" <zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
If Jon was on anyone's payroll then you likely wouldn't hear a peep out
of me other then an expression of sadness. However, Jon's sole income is
the sale of the DVD's he has listed on www.homebuilthelp.com . I just
got off the phone with Jon he has a group of people coming over later
today for retrieval and he has looked at his plane through binoculars at
the end of his runway. Unfortunately, his leg has swollen up a bit and
needs to keep it iced and elevated so he will not get to see the plane
till they get it in the shop. Jon is in fair spirits, though he is still
beating himself up for the accident. But he is determined to get the
plane in the air once again. I would like to Thank Mark Sherman for his
kind donation of a Rotax motor mount that he had sitting in his shop.
It's the small things like buying a DVD that really helps Jon out in
this hard time But the donation of a mount and cage from other builders
is absolutely incredible! Folks I'm humbled by your generosity towards
Jon and wish to Thank all of you who have taken the time to help out.
For those of you who haven't had the chance please visit
www.homebuilthelp.com You get a helping hand and help out one of our
own.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com / www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ihab.awad@gmail.com
On 7/1/06, Bill Stuart <billstuart25@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Jon has provin Twice now how safe the Zenith design is. ...
Yes, in fact I'm beginning to suspect he's on Chris Heintz's payroll....
;)
Regards,
Ihab
--
Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Jon Croke unfortunate incident again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" <jsimons4@triad.rr.com>
Even though I'm on a tight budget right now (2 round trip tickets from NC to California
and 601 HDS plans bought in the last 2 weeks) I just ordered Jon's Metalworking
101 DVD. I already have his Scratch Building Basics DVD and hope my
purchase will help him as much as it helps me.
Good luck Jon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44166#44166
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re:Rear Wing Channel in Fuselage |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Thatcher" <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
Hi Jay,
6B2-5 does not get drilled or clecoed until you have the gear jig in place.
This instruction is on the newer plans from ZAC and I didn't check to see if
it was on the older plans. Since I get the condensed list you've probably
gotten an answer to this several times already :-)
<<In my ZAC pictoral instructions, I have looked and looked for advice on
clecoing (or riveting) the rear channel in the fuselage (6B5-2) to the
bottom
fuselage skin, and find nothing. I know, from the drawings, that it
requires A5s
at pitch 40, but no clue as to when in the process it should be done. Anyone
have an answer for me? Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage.>>
Scott
601XL working on Fuselage
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Serial Number 6483 |
Dave, I was at Golden West in early May also. I was one of the guys
building a rudder to replace the one I had. It was stolen. I believe Jim and
his
dad were the other guys building a rudder. I had a lot of fun in Golden West
and then went to the factory in Missouri. It was a good month. Hopefully, I
will be flying to Golden West next year.
Larry
Lakeview, OR
Fitted Firewall on front pan last night!!!
Message 24
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| Subject: | Rear Longerons on 601XL |
I've run into a problem with the rear longerons (6B2-1). They are
identified as 22x22 and slide under the stiffeners and the two back H.T.
Frames. My problem is that no matter what I do, I cannot get more than
6-7mm edge distance at the rear of the Longerons due to the H.T. Frames
forcing the longerons away from the pre-drilled fuselage. Here is a
small text schematic which I sent to Nick but it was on a Friday and I'm
hoping to get more work done before he answers.
The following drawing shows the resulting edge distance when all parts
are mated.
||
+-------------------------------------------------==+======
=== 6B2-1 width of 21mm inside
+------------------------52mm--------------------+-----------------+
6B1-2 Rear H.T Frame
+-----------------46mm---------------------------+----+ 6B1-4
+-----------------36mm---------------------------+ Location of
pre-drilled rivet hole on 6B1-4
CL
With max width from Center Line of 52mm on the H.T. Frame and a
pre-drilled rivet line in Lower skin of 36mm from Center Line, that
means the rivet will be placed 16 mm inside of the H.T. Frame. Since the
max inside width of the Longeron is 21mm, that leaves an edge distance
of 6 mm, which is what I measured after drilling through the pre-drilled
holes into the Longeron.
Anyone who has fallen asleep at this point is forgiven as my brain seems
to be going mushy just thinking about it!
Has anyone run into this problem (new fuselage design with pre-drilled
holes and slightly modified dimensions from the older version) or have a
solution for this?
Scott
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
J-
I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he said "Make
a landing however you want".
So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final (Of
course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it". Went into
a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross controlled!"
Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips and
spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2" <jsimons4@triad.rr.com>
>
> Hmmmm, maybe I should give the book back to my brother in law. He had it
> from his flight instruction many years ago and loaned it to me since I
> want to get my PPL. Better yet, I'll go ahead and read it and perhaps get
> kicked out of flight school. LOL [Laughing]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44156#44156
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Longerons on 601XL |
Scott, I remember having the same problem. The line of rivet holes tapers
from a 10 mm edge distance (to the inside edge of the longeron) at the forward
HT frame to about 6 or 7 mm at the rear HT frame. Since the longeron is .040"
and the rivets are so closely spaced, I felt OK with the reduced edge
distance. And like you, I could see no other options.
Also, I have seen, in several different sources, that as little as 2 times
hole diameter is OK for edge distance. For an A4, that would be 3.2 mm x 2 =
6.4 mm. And that is measured from the center of the hole, not the edge. There
are several places in ZAC instructions that call for a 9.5mm edge distance for
A5s. That is a 2.375 edge distance.
This is not really authoratative nor a recommendation, but I hope it helps.
Maybe someone else could confirm (or dispute) my view.
Jay in Dallas
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
hi list:
while fitting my elevator to the hor stab, i have a
little twist. when one end is even with the
fiberglass tip, the other end is about 3/8" off.
Before i try and manually twist it or take it apart to
get it even, does ti really make much difference in
flight conditions.
i am assuming that it will find its own center during
flight and have little effect on the stability of the
machine. it will probely will cause a little extra
drag, but i am not sure on this issue.
My question.
should i leave it alone
should i try and manually twist it to make it even
should i remove the skins and re-align it.
greatest concern is safty not looks.
thanks in advance for your imput.
john butterfield
601XL, corvair
__________________________________________________
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Global challenge to assist Jon... |
Attn: All Zenith Lister's
I previously purchased Jon's Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft, and
have learned a great deal (Thanks to Jon, Mark & Dave!).
Trying to come up with a unique way to help Jon, I've settled on this:
My gently used 2-DVD set of "Scratch Building Basics for Metal Aircraft" has
been posted as a no-reserve auction on Ebay (#260003859109). I will donate
shipping charges to anywhere in the world to the cause. The winning bid must
be sent to Jon's HomebuiltHelp paypal account at auction end (Details will
be provided). Upon confirmation of payment, I will ship the set immediately.
It's in your hands!
Thanks in advance for your support!
Todd Henning
West Bend, WI
(Ebay th-sr)
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Longerons on 601XL |
Hi Scott,
I am working on the same area right now. I didn't notice an edge
distance problem, but it might be there.
Looking at your little drawing makes me want to ask how you arranged
the rear frame. If this is a picture of the bottom of your fuselage
then I don't think it should be in the stack-up you drew. According
to my interpretation, the angle goes in contact with the longerons on
the fuselage bottom and the open end of the HT frame is attached to
the angle. That would mean it doesn't appear in the stack-up.
Sorry about not answering your question. I am not at my shop and
can't look at the prints or fuselage until I go out there.
Paul
XL Fuselage
do not archive
At 10:52 AM 7/1/2006, you wrote:
>I've run into a problem with the rear longerons (6B2-1). They are
>identified as 22x22 and slide under the stiffeners and the two back
>H.T. Frames. My problem is that no matter what I do, I cannot get
>more than 6-7mm edge distance at the rear of the Longerons due to
>the H.T. Frames forcing the longerons away from the pre-drilled
>fuselage. Here is a small text schematic which I sent to Nick but it
>was on a Friday and I'm hoping to get more work done before he answers.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: elevator twist |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cffd@pgrb.com>
The elevator trim is on one side (right on 701) and when deflected
essenetially puts a twist in the elevator. The flaperon roll force can more
than overcome rolling forces from the elevator, I would expect the same for
the 601.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 1:46 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> hi list:
> while fitting my elevator to the hor stab, i have a
> little twist. when one end is even with the
> fiberglass tip, the other end is about 3/8" off.
> Before i try and manually twist it or take it apart to
> get it even, does ti really make much difference in
> flight conditions.
>
> i am assuming that it will find its own center during
> flight and have little effect on the stability of the
> machine. it will probely will cause a little extra
> drag, but i am not sure on this issue.
>
> My question.
> should i leave it alone
> should i try and manually twist it to make it even
> should i remove the skins and re-align it.
>
> greatest concern is safty not looks.
> thanks in advance for your imput.
>
> john butterfield
> 601XL, corvair
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Mounting Horizontal Tail and Elevator on CH701 |
Help
Please can anyone building a CH701 tell me where to find information to
mount the Elevator and Horz.
stab. Been looking and looking and cannot find anything either on the
drqwings or Photo Guides.
What am I missing?
Thanks
John
Message 32
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| Subject: | Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry |
List---- sorry I mentioned Bingelis' books and STICK AND RUDDER. I finally realized
I am wasting my time posting to this site.--------
Next thing you'll be telling me is that crosswind landing should be avioded also.
The way you guys are talking is: DON'T LEARN TO FLY THE AIRPLANE and
to be prepaired for the unexpected, it is better to wait for the real thing---------
too late than.-----------Myself, I am glad I learned to fly during the
"old school" of flight instruction.
Fritz
Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
J-
I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he said "Make
a landing however you want".
So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final (Of
course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it". Went into
a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross controlled!"
Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips and
spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2"
>
> Hmmmm, maybe I should give the book back to my brother in law. He had it
> from his flight instruction many years ago and loaned it to me since I
> want to get my PPL. Better yet, I'll go ahead and read it and perhaps get
> kicked out of flight school. LOL [Laughing]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44156#44156
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Longerons on 601XL |
Hi Scott,
I went out to my shop and compared your drawing with my prints and
actual fuselage. The results are a bit disappointing:
The holes drilled in my bottom rear skin span around 77 mm for the 5
holes. According to your drawing this distance on your plane is
36x2=72mm. When I measure the edge distance from the last rivet hole
in the longeron to the flange edge I get around 8mm. This is a good
distance for me and a bad one for you.
It seems the folks at ZAC have changed the location of the
pre-drilled holes between the time your skin was drilled and mine
(mine was shipped a few months ago). It is impossible to tell (at
least for me) how this change was done and when because the holes
don't show on the drawing 6B1 anyway. I am afraid this is just
another case of the poor quality of the drawings at ZAC and the
simple fact that the parts are not produced to the drawings we get
but to some other (more ethereal, I presume) standard.
I can't give you a solution for your problem. I guess you will have
to wait for Nick to respond. It may be a while since he has already
missed responding to my latest inquiry for a week now.
When I had to scrap my first wing because of problems created, in
part, by the crappy pre-drilled holes in the rear wing skin I decided
to reorder new skins without the factory pre-drilled holes. That
didn't bother ZAC one bit and the resulting wing came out just fine.
Good luck,
Paul
XL fuselage
At 10:52 AM 7/1/2006, you wrote:
>I've run into a problem with the rear longerons (6B2-1). They are
>identified as 22x22 and slide under the stiffeners and the two back
>H.T. Frames. My problem is that no matter what I do, I cannot get
>more than 6-7mm edge distance at the rear of the Longerons due to
>the H.T. Frames forcing the longerons away from the pre-drilled
>fuselage. Here is a small text schematic which I sent to Nick but it
>was on a Friday and I'm hoping to get more work done before he answers.
>
>The following drawing shows the resulting edge distance when all
>parts are mated.
>
>||
>+-------------------------------------------------==+========= 6B2-1
>width of 21mm inside
>+------------------------52mm--------------------+-----------------+
>6B1-2 Rear H.T Frame
>+-----------------46mm---------------------------+----+ 6B1-4
>+-----------------36mm---------------------------+ Location of
>pre-drilled rivet hole on 6B1-4
>CL
>
>With max width from Center Line of 52mm on the H.T. Frame and a
>pre-drilled rivet line in Lower skin of 36mm from Center Line, that
>means the rivet will be placed 16 mm inside of the H.T. Frame. Since
>the max inside width of the Longeron is 21mm, that leaves an edge
>distance of 6 mm, which is what I measured after drilling through
>the pre-drilled holes into the Longeron.
>
>Anyone who has fallen asleep at this point is forgiven as my brain
>seems to be going mushy just thinking about it!
>
>Has anyone run into this problem (new fuselage design with
>pre-drilled holes and slightly modified dimensions from the older
>version) or have a solution for this?
>
>Scott
-
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Serial Number 6483 |
Larry,
Do you know if you are going to Arlington. I'm getting all fired up and
ready to go. My wife is punishing me and probably won't be there with
me. I think I'll be ok without here though. If anyone from Canada reads
this, I'll be wanting to talk to. Wife wants to go to Vancouver. All I
know is you travel North and they stop you and take your guns and drugs
away and then your there.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: LHusky@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Serial Number 6483
Dave, I was at Golden West in early May also. I was one of the guys
building a rudder to replace the one I had. It was stolen. I believe
Jim and his dad were the other guys building a rudder. I had a lot of
fun in Golden West and then went to the factory in Missouri. It was a
good month. Hopefully, I will be flying to Golden West next year.
Larry
Lakeview, OR
Fitted Firewall on front pan last night!!!
Message 35
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| Subject: | 22000 MF Capacitor |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Gents,
I'm wiring my Rotax 912 and I have the above capacitor. I can't understand
the markings on the two terminals. one of the terminals has a dab of black
paint on it and the other is clear. Can someone tell me what the polarity
of these two terminals is/are?
Many thanks,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
Do Not archive
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: 22000 MF Capacitor |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Tommy,
A capacitor that large is usually polarized. That means you need to
attach the "Plus" contact of the capacitor to the "Plus" side of your
electrical hookup.
I can't tell from your description which contact is the
"Plus". Perhaps if you sent me a picture I could tell. There are
many different ways of marking those parts. One popular way is to
have a line of dashes or "Minus signs" printed on the plastic sleeve
around the barrel of the part.
It may be that the painted terminal is the plus side, but I can't be
sure. I would have more confidence if it were red rather than black.
If you can send me a picture I will be glad to look at it. I need to
see both the top and side views including perhaps all sides.
Good luck,
Paul
At 02:14 PM 7/1/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
>Gents,
>
>I'm wiring my Rotax 912 and I have the above capacitor. I can't understand
>the markings on the two terminals. one of the terminals has a dab of black
>paint on it and the other is clear. Can someone tell me what the polarity
>of these two terminals is/are?
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Tommy Walker in Alabama
>
>Do Not archive
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 37
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|
I'm starting to fit the cowl to my Stratus-powered 601HD. My
firewall-forward kit, including the cowl, was purchased in early 2000.
My builder's handbook calls for 20mm clearance between the lip of the
cowl and the (extended) surface of the front face of the prop extension.
Is this enough for easy removal of the upper half of the cowl? It
seems a bit tight to me.
How about the number of cowl fasteners? My builder's manual calls for 4
Dzus fasteners per side. That seems skimpy to me, particularly with
them bearing in fiberglass. How does the cowl retention system hold up
after a couple hundred hours of flight? Should I reinforce the
fiberglass at the fastener locations? Would Camlocks be better than
Dzus fasteners? ( I think I know the answer to this one already, but
I'm asking anyway.)
How about trimming the lower cowl to clear the oil pan and the valve
covers? Any tricks to make that easier?
I'll appreciate any advice on fitting and retaining the cowl,
particularly from builders with a number of hours on their planes.
Thanks in advance.
George
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Ratchet Tiedowns |
I need some advice on ratchet tiedowns for the stabilizer skin and wing
skins on the XL. For the stabilizer skin, the Assembly Guide recommends
five 12' endless ratchet tiedowns (#11699) from Highland. For the wings,
the Assembly Guide recommends McMaster Carr 12' 1-piece ratchet straps
(#8842T17), and does not recommend the number needed.
Is there any reason I can't use the same straps for both the stabilizer and
wings? How many will I need for the wings? Can I use the two-piece style,
since I can't seem to find the one-piece style locally in the correct
length?
Any help would be appreciated.
Dave Van Lanen
XL - stabilizer
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Rear stick pressure |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I had the same problem with mine, I could not trim out the elevator
force. I first tried duct taping a sheet of aluminum to the trim tab
so as to double its size and then I was able to trim it out in
flight. I was still using most of the trim travel to get it trimmed
so I made a new set of front stabilizer attach brackets that brought
the front of the stabilizer down about half an inch and I was able to
fly hands off with the trim tab near neutral position in cruise. I
still can't trim it out with more than about five degrees of flaps
but that only happens on short final so I haven't been very motivated
to fix it yet. I will probably add some area to the trim tab
eventually to get more trim authority but It's not high on my
priority list right now. I did add a bungee cord to eh elevator cable
to help out the trim tab and it helped some. At least now the
elevator doesn't slam down against the stops when you let go of the
stick on the ground, the bungee holds it in the neutral position.
By the way, changing the angle of incidence of the main wing is not
the way to solve this problem. That will mainly just change the angle
the of the fuselage in flight and you will still have to hold the
nose up to maintain level flight. It's the horizontal stabilizer and
elevator that control pitch trim. It takes a large change in main
wing attachment to have much effect on pitch trim.
On Jul 1, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Jim wrote:
> Having flown my XL yesterday for the first time after 2 1/2 yrs of
> building time, I found it to be nose heavy. From take off to
> landing I had to maintain constant back pressure on the stick.
> Wondering if anyone else has experienced this characteristic on
> their XL?
> I've checked the weight and balance again and feel it's within
> limits plus hate adding weight to the tail end if that's not the
> real problem. I've thought of lowering the front of the stabilizer
> and even lowering the rear wing spar changing the attach angle.
> Does anyone out there have any other suggestions or ideas?
> Thanks, N 105JT
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
It's a pretty sad situation when your CFI is afraid of slips. How
else can you make a cross-wind landing?
On Jul 1, 2006, at 4:28 PM, Big Gee wrote:
> List---- sorry I mentioned Bingelis' books and STICK AND RUDDER. I
> finally realized I am wasting my time posting to this site.--------
> Next thing you'll be telling me is that crosswind landing should be
> avioded also. The way you guys are talking is: DON'T LEARN TO
> FLY THE AIRPLANE and to be prepaired for the unexpected, it is
> better to wait for the real thing--------- too late than.-----------
> Myself, I am glad I learned to fly during the "old school" of
> flight instruction.
> Fritz
>
> Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
>
> J-
> I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
> shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he
> said "Make
> a landing however you want".
> So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final
> (Of
> course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it".
> Went into
> a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross
> controlled!"
> Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips and
> spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
> Bill
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
I guess we now need to ask the CFI before the flight if he/she is afraid of
side slips or forward slips. If they say, "Yes" then it's time to look for a
new CFI.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 4:21 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
It's a pretty sad situation when your CFI is afraid of slips. How
else can you make a cross-wind landing?
On Jul 1, 2006, at 4:28 PM, Big Gee wrote:
> List---- sorry I mentioned Bingelis' books and STICK AND RUDDER. I
> finally realized I am wasting my time posting to this site.--------
> Next thing you'll be telling me is that crosswind landing should be
> avioded also. The way you guys are talking is: DON'T LEARN TO
> FLY THE AIRPLANE and to be prepaired for the unexpected, it is
> better to wait for the real thing--------- too late than.-----------
> Myself, I am glad I learned to fly during the "old school" of
> flight instruction.
> Fritz
>
> Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
>
> J-
> I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
> shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he
> said "Make
> a landing however you want".
> So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final
> (Of
> course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it".
> Went into
> a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross
> controlled!"
> Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips and
> spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
> Bill
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
George,
20mm is close, but the front pins for the cowl will be within 3/8-inch
of the rear edge of the prop if you use a Warp Drive. For this, my
upper cowl is still easy to remove and
replace. The number of cowl fasteners is just right, and then of
course, you've got several over the top too. I prefer Dzus to the
Camlocks. Simpler installation. After 85 hours, my cowl is still in
great shape. No reinforcements needed if you've a good fit.
I added aluminum side covers to get clearance for the exhaust and they
are just enough to do the job. The only trick to getting the engine
clearance for the oil pan is to make a deeper cowl or raise the engine.
My engine mount is 1-inch higher to clear the pan and tilted down by the
1/4-inch thickness of a spacer at the Stratus upper mounts as well as
being able to align the spinner with the upper cowl surface.
Invariably, you'll consider cutting away more lower cowl than you'll be
comfortable with, so I'd recommend you make the cowl pan deeper between
the exhaust side covers.
Unfortunately, I'm painting and the plane is apart for the process, but
I do have a page on the website on the cowl which shows the modifications.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
George Swinford wrote:
> I'm starting to fit the cowl to my Stratus-powered 601HD. My
> firewall-forward kit, including the cowl, was purchased in early
> 2000. My builder's handbook calls for 20mm clearance between the lip
> of the cowl and the (extended) surface of the front face of the prop
> extension. Is this enough for easy removal of the upper half of the
> cowl? It seems a bit tight to me.
>
> How about the number of cowl fasteners? My builder's manual calls for
> 4 Dzus fasteners per side. That seems skimpy to me, particularly with
> them bearing in fiberglass. How does the cowl retention system hold
> up after a couple hundred hours of flight? Should I reinforce the
> fiberglass at the fastener locations? Would Camlocks be better than
> Dzus fasteners? ( I think I know the answer to this one already, but
> I'm asking anyway.)
>
> How about trimming the lower cowl to clear the oil pan and the valve
> covers? Any tricks to make that easier?
>
> I'll appreciate any advice on fitting and retaining the cowl,
> particularly from builders with a number of hours on their planes.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> George
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
I agree with you about the CFI being afraid of a forward slip. That
is outrageous.
However, there is another way to do a cross-wind landing. I learned
it from the old guy who was giving me instrument training. What you
do is fly a crab angle down to the level where you are in ground
effect - perhaps 10 feet off the ground and then kick the nose
straight down the runway with the rudder at the last
moment. Apparently, this is how it is done on large transport planes
where the wingspan prevents a forward slip because the landing will
take place on the upwind wing tip instead of the landing gear.
Paul
XL fuselage
>It's a pretty sad situation when your CFI is afraid of slips. How
>else can you make a cross-wind landing?
Message 44
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| Subject: | 22000 MF Capacitor |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Paul,
Thanks to you and Doug, I found the "minus side" of the capacitor and I'm
good to go.
I am indebted to the kind folks on this list.
Tommy
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 5:24 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Tommy,
A capacitor that large is usually polarized. That means you need to
attach the "Plus" contact of the capacitor to the "Plus" side of your
electrical hookup.
I can't tell from your description which contact is the
"Plus". Perhaps if you sent me a picture I could tell. There are
many different ways of marking those parts. One popular way is to
have a line of dashes or "Minus signs" printed on the plastic sleeve
around the barrel of the part.
It may be that the painted terminal is the plus side, but I can't be
sure. I would have more confidence if it were red rather than black.
If you can send me a picture I will be glad to look at it. I need to
see both the top and side views including perhaps all sides.
Good luck,
Paul
At 02:14 PM 7/1/2006, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
>
>Gents,
>
>I'm wiring my Rotax 912 and I have the above capacitor. I can't understand
>the markings on the two terminals. one of the terminals has a dab of black
>paint on it and the other is clear. Can someone tell me what the polarity
>of these two terminals is/are?
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Tommy Walker in Alabama
>
>Do Not archive
>
>
---------------------------------------------
Paul Mulwitz
32013 NE Dial Road
Camas, WA 98607
---------------------------------------------
Message 45
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The higher air pressure inside the cowl holds it out against the
fuselage skin around the firewall so eight dzus fasteners hold it in
place pretty well. My lower cowl slides in between the L angles
riveted to the firewall and the fuselage skin and are held in place
by four dzus fasteners. The upper cowl is held in place by the cowl
pins that protrude from the lower cowl at he nose and four dzus
fasteners, two through the side skins and two into the lower cowl.
The fasteners I received from ZAC weren't long enough to go through
two layers of fiberglass so I cut out a small piece of the lower cowl
on both sides where the fasteners go and riveted and glassed in two
strips of .025 aluminum to attach the dzus springs to.
Getting the lower cowl to fit is a major bit of work. The cowl was
actually designed to fit the rotax so you have to cut away a bit
chunk of the lower cowl to fit the subaru. Installing the bumps over
the valve covers wasn't too hard but it took a lot of work to fit
around the exhaust and oil pan. I ended up just gradually trimming
and test fitting and trimming until the lower cowl fit. When I was
done, I taped some polyethylene foam to the bottom of the engine and
exhaust and building up new fiberglass to fit around these
protrusions. I threw away the oil pan scoop ZAC sent me, I just
couldn't get it to fit right. I built my own scoop to cool the pan. I
still have some "temporary" aluminum lips at the rear of the cowl to
improve the flow of cooling air. I put them on nearly two years ago
during phase I flight testing to get the oil temps down. Someday, I
will replace them with fiberglass. I've been too busy to fix such
cosmetic issues so far.
On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:37 PM, George Swinford wrote:
> I'm starting to fit the cowl to my Stratus-powered 601HD. My
> firewall-forward kit, including the cowl, was purchased in early
> 2000. My builder's handbook calls for 20mm clearance between the
> lip of the cowl and the (extended) surface of the front face of the
> prop extension. Is this enough for easy removal of the upper half
> of the cowl? It seems a bit tight to me.
>
> How about the number of cowl fasteners? My builder's manual calls
> for 4 Dzus fasteners per side. That seems skimpy to me,
> particularly with them bearing in fiberglass. How does the cowl
> retention system hold up after a couple hundred hours of flight?
> Should I reinforce the fiberglass at the fastener locations? Would
> Camlocks be better than Dzus fasteners? ( I think I know the
> answer to this one already, but I'm asking anyway.)
>
> How about trimming the lower cowl to clear the oil pan and the
> valve covers? Any tricks to make that easier?
>
> I'll appreciate any advice on fitting and retaining the cowl,
> particularly from builders with a number of hours on their planes.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> George
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru 150 hours in the air.
do not archive.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Mounting Horizontal Tail and Elevator on CH701 |
I'm with you John...I thought I'd lost part of my plans or something. Wht did
we overlook?
john swanson <jswanson@up.net> wrote: Help
Please can anyone building a CH701 tell me where to find information to mount the
Elevator and Horz.
stab. Been looking and looking and cannot find anything either on the drqwings
or Photo Guides.
What am I missing?
Thanks
John
Rick
Sharpsburg, GA. USA
http://www.n701rr.com
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Ratchet Tiedowns |
Ratchet TiedownsIt's been awhile but my memory of the experience
suggests a minumum of 4 straps, and that 5 or 6 would make things work
out smoother. I think I used a combination of several 12' straps and
several more combos of shorter ones with fine results.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave VanLanen
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 5:46 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Ratchet Tiedowns
I need some advice on ratchet tiedowns for the stabilizer skin and
wing skins on the XL. For the stabilizer skin, the Assembly Guide
recommends five 12' endless ratchet tiedowns (#11699) from Highland.
For the wings, the Assembly Guide recommends McMaster Carr 12' 1-piece
ratchet straps (#8842T17), and does not recommend the number needed.
Is there any reason I can't use the same straps for both the
stabilizer and wings? How many will I need for the wings? Can I use
the two-piece style, since I can't seem to find the one-piece style
locally in the correct length?
Any help would be appreciated.
Dave Van Lanen
XL - stabilizer
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Ratchet Tiedowns |
Dave, The make and model of the straps is not critical. I got mine at Home
Depot and they worked just fine. I got 12' long, ratcheting straps, which are
about 1" wide. They need to be long enough to go around the wing, with the
open nose skin sticking way up in the air. I think I used five or six on each
wing. You need that many to put and keep an even "squeeze" to force the nose
skin into place. I placed the ratcheting device on the rear wing skin with a
folded shop rag under it to keep from scratching the skin. Be sure and use the
2 x 4 and the 1 x 2 along the nose skin to keep from developing wrinkles or
waves as you tighten the straps. You'll get pretty good at this operation after
you have done it three or four times, which is the minimum to get the job
done. I think I actually pulled each wing three times.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Ratchet Tiedowns |
For the stabilizer, I just used nylon straps that I got at Big Lots
for a couple bucks a four pack. These are about ten feet long and
have a metal buckle at one end that you slip the other end through
twice to cinch. The same type buckle used on back pack strap. They
are easier to use than a ratchet strap and work just fine for this
job. I cut slots in my work table with the circular saw and threaded
the straps down through the slots, under the table surface and back
through slots on the other side of the stabilizer. Then I just pulled
the snug a little at a time, keeping the tension on all of them even.
I think I used four of them for the stabilizer and put a length of 1
by 2 lumber under them to distribute the force to the skin.
I used the same straps for the nose skins on the wings but I had to
string two together to get the length I needed. I used four sets of
these straps to do the wings with a couple of 12' two by fours under
them to distribute the load.
On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:46 PM, Dave VanLanen wrote:
> I need some advice on ratchet tiedowns for the stabilizer skin and
> wing skins on the XL. For the stabilizer skin, the Assembly Guide
> recommends five 12=99 endless ratchet tiedowns (#11699) from
> Highland. For the wings, the Assembly Guide recommends McMaster
> Carr 12=99 1-piece ratchet straps (#8842T17), and does not
recommend
> the number needed.
>
> Is there any reason I can=99t use the same straps for both the
> stabilizer and wings? How many will I need for the wings? Can I
> use the two-piece style, since I can=99t seem to find the
one-piece
> style locally in the correct length?
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Dave Van Lanen
>
> XL - stabilizer
>
=EF=BC=EF=BC
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru.
do not archive.
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry |
Fritz-
Read my post again. I'm agreeing with you 100%!
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Big Gee
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 4:28 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry
List---- sorry I mentioned Bingelis' books and STICK AND RUDDER. I
finally realized I am wasting my time posting to this site.--------
Next thing you'll be telling me is that crosswind landing should be
avioded also. The way you guys are talking is: DON'T LEARN TO FLY
THE AIRPLANE and to be prepaired for the unexpected, it is better to
wait for the real thing--------- too late than.-----------Myself, I am
glad I learned to fly during the "old school" of flight instruction.
Fritz
Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
J-
I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he
said "Make
a landing however you want".
So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final
(Of
course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it".
Went into
a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross
controlled!"
Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips
and
spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2"
>
> Hmmmm, maybe I should give the book back to my brother in law. He
had it
> from his flight instruction many years ago and loaned it to me
since I
> want to get my PPL. Better yet, I'll go ahead and read it and
perhaps get
> kicked out of flight school. LOL [Laughing]
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Yes, I've heard of that method and have even tried it a few times in
strong crosswind conditions. That maneuver avoids a forward slip and
normal side slip but you are still kicking the plane into a side skid
momentarily just before touchdown. Not many planes are designed to
land in the crab.
I was taught how to slip the airplane by my instructors. They warned
me about being "cross controlled" elsewhere in the pattern but you
were normally supposed to be cross controlled on short final if you
had any cross wind. You can really get some steep approaches in a
high wing Cessna if you're not afraid of the forward slip. My Zodiac
will drop like a rock with full flaps and aggressive forward slip,
just remember to goose the throttle before touch down to arrest the
sink rate or you're in for a carrier style landing. :)
On Jul 1, 2006, at 7:57 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> I agree with you about the CFI being afraid of a forward slip.
> That is outrageous.
>
> However, there is another way to do a cross-wind landing. I
> learned it from the old guy who was giving me instrument training.
> What you do is fly a crab angle down to the level where you are in
> ground effect - perhaps 10 feet off the ground and then kick the
> nose straight down the runway with the rudder at the last moment.
> Apparently, this is how it is done on large transport planes where
> the wingspan prevents a forward slip because the landing will take
> place on the upwind wing tip instead of the landing gear.
>
> Paul
> XL fuselage
>
>
>> It's a pretty sad situation when your CFI is afraid of slips. How
>> else can you make a cross-wind landing?
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
All-
READ MY POST!! IF YOU CAN'T APPRECIATE THE IRONY, GO BACK TO THE FUNNY
PAGES!
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 7:37 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>
> I guess we now need to ask the CFI before the flight if he/she is afraid
> of
> side slips or forward slips. If they say, "Yes" then it's time to look for
> a
> new CFI.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
> Tail done, working on wings....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 4:21 PM
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> It's a pretty sad situation when your CFI is afraid of slips. How
> else can you make a cross-wind landing?
>
> On Jul 1, 2006, at 4:28 PM, Big Gee wrote:
>
>> List---- sorry I mentioned Bingelis' books and STICK AND RUDDER. I
>> finally realized I am wasting my time posting to this site.--------
>> Next thing you'll be telling me is that crosswind landing should be
>> avioded also. The way you guys are talking is: DON'T LEARN TO
>> FLY THE AIRPLANE and to be prepaired for the unexpected, it is
>> better to wait for the real thing--------- too late than.-----------
>> Myself, I am glad I learned to fly during the "old school" of
>> flight instruction.
>> Fritz
>>
>> Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
>>
>> J-
>> I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
>> shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he
>> said "Make
>> a landing however you want".
>> So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final
>> (Of
>> course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it".
>> Went into
>> a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross
>> controlled!"
>> Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips and
>> spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
>> Bill
>> do not archive
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
>>
>>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
> do not archive.
>
>
>
Message 53
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OK, List, time for some of that camaraderie, support, and over-all good
ideas. If I was a drinking man I'd be on my 2nd six-pack by now.
I finished my right wing (Zenith supplied kit) and started on the left wing
today. I was toe-tapping to some good country music when I realized I had
cut and drilled the rear spar as if it was for the right wing (obviously not
focused on the task at hand).
The good news is that I have plenty of aluminum as I plan on scratch
building the remainder. The bad news is that I have not yet built Dave's
Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake (nor do I have the parts).
I sure hate to waste the weekend and you will all feel bad if I end up at
the local watering hole tonight.
Any ideas? Do I have any options?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Message 54
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All-
That says it all. Contact me offline if you need a questionnaire.
Bill
do not archive
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| Subject: | Ratchet Tiedowns |
Dave,
I agree with Jay ' the type, style, brand shouldn=92t matter. Heck, I
used =BC=94
nylon rope with a trucker=92s hitch, no problems.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 5:33 PM
Dave, The make and model of the straps is not critical. I got mine at
Home
Depot and they worked just fine. I got 12' long, ratcheting straps,
which
are about 1" wide. They need to be long enough to go around the wing,
with
the open nose skin sticking way up in the air. I think I used five or
six
on each wing. You need that many to put and keep an even "squeeze" to
force
the nose skin into place. I placed the ratcheting device on the rear
wing
skin with a folded shop rag under it to keep from scratching the skin.
Be
sure and use the 2 x 4 and the 1 x 2 along the nose skin to keep from
developing wrinkles or waves as you tighten the straps. You'll get
pretty
good at this operation after you have done it three or four times, which
is
the minimum to get the job done. I think I actually pulled each wing
three
times.
Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Rear stick pressure |
Bryan,
Thanks for the info, between you and Jack I now have a couple of ideas to try.
Jim N105JT
Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
I had the same problem with mine, I could not trim out the elevator
force. I first tried duct taping a sheet of aluminum to the trim tab
so as to double its size and then I was able to trim it out in
flight. I was still using most of the trim travel to get it trimmed
so I made a new set of front stabilizer attach brackets that brought
the front of the stabilizer down about half an inch and I was able to
fly hands off with the trim tab near neutral position in cruise. I
still can't trim it out with more than about five degrees of flaps
but that only happens on short final so I haven't been very motivated
to fix it yet. I will probably add some area to the trim tab
eventually to get more trim authority but It's not high on my
priority list right now. I did add a bungee cord to eh elevator cable
to help out the trim tab and it helped some. At least now the
elevator doesn't slam down against the stops when you let go of the
stick on the ground, the bungee holds it in the neutral position.
By the way, changing the angle of incidence of the main wing is not
the way to solve this problem. That will mainly just change the angle
the of the fuselage in flight and you will still have to hold the
nose up to maintain level flight. It's the horizontal stabilizer and
elevator that control pitch trim. It takes a large change in main
wing attachment to have much effect on pitch trim.
On Jul 1, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Jim wrote:
> Having flown my XL yesterday for the first time after 2 1/2 yrs of
> building time, I found it to be nose heavy. From take off to
> landing I had to maintain constant back pressure on the stick.
> Wondering if anyone else has experienced this characteristic on
> their XL?
> I've checked the weight and balance again and feel it's within
> limits plus hate adding weight to the tail end if that's not the
> real problem. I've thought of lowering the front of the stabilizer
> and even lowering the rear wing spar changing the attach angle.
> Does anyone out there have any other suggestions or ideas?
> Thanks, N 105JT
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
__________________________________________________
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Wing Spar |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine" <mgvalentine@gmail.com>
Interestingly, I did the same thing. I was on my first wing, so I
just took the other rear spar and put it out of my mind for now. I
have talked to the factory about sending me one if someone neaby
orders a kit, but no love so far. If it comes to it, I will be
splicing the rear spar for my next wing. At least that way I only
have to find a 6' bending break. If you haven't seen the recent
thread on splicing, take a look about a week back (at most).
Cheers, Michael Valentine
On 7/1/06, Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
>
>
> OK, List, time for some of that camaraderie, support, and over-all good
> ideas. If I was a drinking man I'd be on my 2nd six-pack by now.
>
>
> I finished my right wing (Zenith supplied kit) and started on the left wing
> today. I was toe-tapping to some good country music when I realized I had
> cut and drilled the rear spar as if it was for the right wing (obviously not
> focused on the task at hand).
>
>
> The good news is that I have plenty of aluminum as I plan on scratch
> building the remainder. The bad news is that I have not yet built Dave's
> Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake (nor do I have the parts).
>
>
> I sure hate to waste the weekend and you will all feel bad if I end up at
> the local watering hole tonight.
>
>
> Any ideas? Do I have any options?
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, CA
>
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
>
> Tail done, working on wings....
>
>
Message 58
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|
| Subject: | Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Bill,
My apologies if I appeared to not follow the irony, but I am really agreeing
with you! Flying an old L-2 one instructor used to yell at me, "What cheek
of your ass are sitting on?" Many modern instructors seem to have lost that
feel.
At the end of my flying days 20 years ago I had finally found a CFI that
flew a Stearman. He understood slips. I had been reprimanded twice before
that, once by a Flight Examiner and once by an Airport Manager!
X-winds in a taildragger are most easily handled (says me) by conducting an
up wind, one wheel landing. The up-wind wing is kept low by
cross-controlling and the pilot keeps the nose pointed down the runway. It's
essentially a forward slip in relationship to the wind.
Keep on slipping,
Gary
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 6:06 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
All-
READ MY POST!! IF YOU CAN'T APPRECIATE THE IRONY, GO BACK TO THE FUNNY
PAGES!
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 7:37 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>
> I guess we now need to ask the CFI before the flight if he/she is afraid
> of
> side slips or forward slips. If they say, "Yes" then it's time to look for
> a
> new CFI.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
> Tail done, working on wings....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 4:21 PM
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> It's a pretty sad situation when your CFI is afraid of slips. How
> else can you make a cross-wind landing?
>
> On Jul 1, 2006, at 4:28 PM, Big Gee wrote:
>
>> List---- sorry I mentioned Bingelis' books and STICK AND RUDDER. I
>> finally realized I am wasting my time posting to this site.--------
>> Next thing you'll be telling me is that crosswind landing should be
>> avioded also. The way you guys are talking is: DON'T LEARN TO
>> FLY THE AIRPLANE and to be prepaired for the unexpected, it is
>> better to wait for the real thing--------- too late than.-----------
>> Myself, I am glad I learned to fly during the "old school" of
>> flight instruction.
>> Fritz
>>
>> Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
>>
>> J-
>> I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
>> shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he
>> said "Make
>> a landing however you want".
>> So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final
>> (Of
>> course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it".
>> Went into
>> a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross
>> controlled!"
>> Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips and
>> spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
>> Bill
>> do not archive
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
>>
>>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
> do not archive.
>
>
>
Message 59
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER--- sorry |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Gary-
This wasn't directed at you, but "Big Gee". I just happened to respond
to the list on your post. My apologies- I know we're on the same page.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 9:36 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> My apologies if I appeared to not follow the irony, but I am really
> agreeing
> with you! Flying an old L-2 one instructor used to yell at me, "What cheek
> of your ass are sitting on?" Many modern instructors seem to have lost
> that
> feel.
>
> At the end of my flying days 20 years ago I had finally found a CFI that
> flew a Stearman. He understood slips. I had been reprimanded twice before
> that, once by a Flight Examiner and once by an Airport Manager!
>
> X-winds in a taildragger are most easily handled (says me) by conducting
> an
> up wind, one wheel landing. The up-wind wing is kept low by
> cross-controlling and the pilot keeps the nose pointed down the runway.
> It's
> essentially a forward slip in relationship to the wind.
>
> Keep on slipping,
> Gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 6:06 PM
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
>
> All-
> READ MY POST!! IF YOU CAN'T APPRECIATE THE IRONY, GO BACK TO THE FUNNY
> PAGES!
> Bill
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 7:37 PM
>
>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
>>
>> I guess we now need to ask the CFI before the flight if he/she is afraid
>> of
>> side slips or forward slips. If they say, "Yes" then it's time to look
>> for
>
>> a
>> new CFI.
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, CA
>> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
>> Tail done, working on wings....
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
>> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 4:21 PM
>>
>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
>> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>>
>> It's a pretty sad situation when your CFI is afraid of slips. How
>> else can you make a cross-wind landing?
>>
>> On Jul 1, 2006, at 4:28 PM, Big Gee wrote:
>>
>>> List---- sorry I mentioned Bingelis' books and STICK AND RUDDER. I
>>> finally realized I am wasting my time posting to this site.--------
>>> Next thing you'll be telling me is that crosswind landing should be
>>> avioded also. The way you guys are talking is: DON'T LEARN TO
>>> FLY THE AIRPLANE and to be prepaired for the unexpected, it is
>>> better to wait for the real thing--------- too late than.-----------
>>> Myself, I am glad I learned to fly during the "old school" of
>>> flight instruction.
>>> Fritz
>>>
>>> Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>>> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Naumuk"
>>>
>>> J-
>>> I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
>>> shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he
>>> said "Make
>>> a landing however you want".
>>> So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final
>>> (Of
>>> course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it".
>>> Went into
>>> a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross
>>> controlled!"
>>> Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips and
>>> spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
>>> Bill
>>> do not archive
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Bryan Martin
>> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
>> do not archive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
>> but around our area, slips and spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
Well, my CFI was happy when I used a slip the other day to (mostly) repair a
crummy approach. I think I'll keep him :-)
-- Craig
Message 61
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Michael,
Thanks for the reminder. I looked it up, but it pertains to the XL. I think
that by the time I were to ask and get a response from ZAC I could build a
couple dozen spars with Dave's Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake.
I did see the post about saw cutting into the table the depth of the flange.
That was problem solving 101, but I don't think I am that desperate. I would
settle for someplace to buy steel on a Sunday (probably won't happen).
Gary
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Michael Valentine"
<mgvalentine@gmail.com>
Interestingly, I did the same thing. I was on my first wing, so I
just took the other rear spar and put it out of my mind for now. I
have talked to the factory about sending me one if someone neaby
orders a kit, but no love so far. If it comes to it, I will be
splicing the rear spar for my next wing. At least that way I only
have to find a 6' bending break. If you haven't seen the recent
thread on splicing, take a look about a week back (at most).
Cheers, Michael Valentine
On 7/1/06, Gary Boothe <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
>
>
> OK, List, time for some of that camaraderie, support, and over-all good
> ideas. If I was a drinking man I'd be on my 2nd six-pack by now.
>
>
> I finished my right wing (Zenith supplied kit) and started on the left
wing
> today. I was toe-tapping to some good country music when I realized I had
> cut and drilled the rear spar as if it was for the right wing (obviously
not
> focused on the task at hand).
>
>
> The good news is that I have plenty of aluminum as I plan on scratch
> building the remainder. The bad news is that I have not yet built Dave's
> Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake (nor do I have the parts).
>
>
> I sure hate to waste the weekend and you will all feel bad if I end up at
> the local watering hole tonight.
>
>
> Any ideas? Do I have any options?
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, CA
>
> 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
>
> Tail done, working on wings....
>
>
Message 62
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rear Wing Spar |
Gary,
I see you are from Cool California. I never heard of the place until I
bought some chairs from a Gal at Golden West fly-in that said she was
from Cool. How cool.
Dave in Salem - 801
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 6:19 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Rear Wing Spar
OK, List, time for some of that camaraderie, support, and over-all
good ideas. If I was a drinking man I'd be on my 2nd six-pack by now.
I finished my right wing (Zenith supplied kit) and started on the left
wing today. I was toe-tapping to some good country music when I realized
I had cut and drilled the rear spar as if it was for the right wing
(obviously not focused on the task at hand).
The good news is that I have plenty of aluminum as I plan on scratch
building the remainder. The bad news is that I have not yet built Dave's
Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake (nor do I have the parts).
I sure hate to waste the weekend and you will all feel bad if I end up
at the local watering hole tonight.
Any ideas? Do I have any options?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Message 63
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Horizontal Tail and Elevator on CH701 |
Look at 7-H-3 top right corner of drawing. Shows 135 mm to Reference Line A-E
Bob Spudis
N701ZX
In a message dated 7/1/2006 8:15:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rick@n701rr.com writes:
I'm with you John...I thought I'd lost part of my plans or something. Wht
did we overlook?
john swanson <jswanson@up.net> wrote:
Help
Please can anyone building a CH701 tell me where to find information to
mount the Elevator and Horz.
stab. Been looking and looking and cannot find anything either on the
drqwings or Photo Guides.
What am I missing?
Thanks
John
Message 64
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel system poser |
Jerry,
Thanks, I missed the drilling of the 1/8" hole. Does that hole go straight
up through the cap? What about water entering the tank? I have had the left
tank burn off sooner than the right. I have fuel shut off valves at the door
headers so I can shut off the side that has less fuel than the other to balance
them out. Lately they have been going down pretty evenly.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX / 55hrs
In a message dated 6/30/2006 7:43:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
JERICKSON03E@aol.com writes:
Both comments cite use of vented caps.
Question. Are the caps the P.N. E-482-000 as specified by 7-V-11? If so,
do they have the additional vent, a 1/8 in hole drilled through the cap by the
builder?
If not, what is the exact configuration of the caps in use during the no
fuel feed problem?
Regards, Jerry
Message 65
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| Subject: | Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls |
Guy,
I'm beginning to scratch build my fuselage and have a few questions.
I'm not a welder (at least not a good one) so I need to purchase some
parts already made. The rudder pedals come with the fuselage kit and
not the controls kit. How much does ZAC charge for the rudder pedals?
Also, where do I get the nylon to make the bearing? I checked aircraft
spruce and didn't see any. I guess if I buy the pedals from ZAC it
comes with the nylon but there are other areas that call for nylon.
Do most scratch builders purchase controls or fabricate them? On the
homebuilt help DVD about scratch building they mention a hardware kit
but of course don't mention a price. I don't see it anywhere on ZAC's
website. Sorry for rambling on. I've been staring at plans all night
and I'm starting to see double. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John
www.johnsplane.com <http://www.johnsplane.com/>
Do not archive
John R. Hines
IT Manager
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc.
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200
Rogers, AR 72756
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
John.Hines@craftontull.com
www.craftontull.com
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Guy,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I’m beginning to scratch build my fuselage and
have a
few questions. I’m not a welder (at least not a good one) so
I need
to purchase some parts already made. The rudder pedals come with
the fuselage
kit and not the controls kit. How much does ZAC charge for the
rudder pedals?
Also, where do I get the nylon to make the bearing? I checked
aircraft
spruce and didn’t see any. I guess if I buy the pedals from
ZAC it
comes with the nylon but there are other areas that call for
nylon.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Do most scratch builders purchase controls or
fabricate
them? On the homebuilt help DVD about scratch building they
mention a
hardware kit but of course don’t mention a price. I
don’t see
it anywhere on ZAC’s website. Sorry for rambling on.
I’ve
been staring at plans all night and I’m starting to see
double. Any
advice would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a
href="http://www.johnsplane.com/">www.johnsplane.com</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Do not archive<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span
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Message 66
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| Subject: | Re: Serial Number 6483 |
I just found out that I will not have the days off to make Arlington.
DAMN!!! Tom, from McMinville is going to go though. He is building an XL also.
Hope you all have a good time and wish I was there. Everyone be safe.
Larry
Lakeview, OR
Message 67
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| Subject: | Serial Number 6483 |
They make you leave all of your beef at home also. I will be heading to
Arlington tomorrow.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Ruddiman
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 4:45 PM
Larry,
Do you know if you are going to Arlington. I'm getting all fired up and
ready to go. My wife is punishing me and probably won't be there with
me. I think I'll be ok without here though. If anyone from Canada reads
this, I'll be wanting to talk to. Wife wants to go to Vancouver. All I
know is you travel North and they stop you and take your guns and drugs
away and then your there.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
"mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com"zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 10:50 AM
Dave, I was at Golden West in early May also. I was one of the guys
building a rudder to replace the one I had. It was stolen. I believe
Jim and his dad were the other guys building a rudder. I had a lot of
fun in Golden West and then went to the factory in Missouri. It was a
good month. Hopefully, I will be flying to Golden West next year.
Larry
Lakeview, OR
Fitted Firewall on front pan last night!!!
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
--
Message 68
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|
| Subject: | Matt - Request from Ed Welander's widow |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Craig Moore <moorecomp@yahoo.com>
Matt,
Could you see to this request?
I received this e-mail off list from Ed Welander's
widow.
Do not archive
Craig Moore
>To: moorecomp@yahoo.com
>Subject: need help
>Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 13:18:03 +1200
>Craig, I just randomly picked your name off the
>Zenith List. My husband, Ed Welander, was a
>subscriber to the List. In 2001-02, He built a
>Zenith CH 601-HDS while we were in America. We
>brought it back to New Zealand with us when we
>returned to the country in late 2003. He always
>enjoyed the List...mostly just read it, very
>occasionally he posted something. The reason I'm
>writing....is that Ed had a massive heart attack on
>24June. He didn't make it. I turned on his computer
>today for the first time since he died. Hundreds of
>messages from the List were waiting.
>
>I don't know how to post to the List, or how to stop
>the subscription to it. Maybe you can help me?
>
>Also, perhaps you could post to the List about Ed's
>death. There were many who recognized his name when
>he posted. He was a licensed aircraft engineer for
>40 years, most recently contracted to Air New Zealand
>and worked the Auckland ramp. He also spent many
>years in the air as a Flight Engineer (727's and
DC->10's). His little Zenith is still here....I'm
going >to have to face selling her. My heart is
broken.
>
>Thank you for any help you can give me.
>Nancy Welander
__________________________________________________
Message 69
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|
| Subject: | Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls |
John some of scratch builders wield their own equipment. But remember
your life is on the line for a quality wield. Many plans builder opt for
buying the steel parts from ZAC. As for the hardware kit, just give
Shirley a call on Tuesday at Zenith Aircraft and get a quote. The price
was not mentioned in the DVD because the DVD caters to Zenith mostly but
is useful for many other designs of aircraft. HYPERLINK
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com/"www.homebuilthelp.com is not a Zenith
affiliated company but it sure does favor our products. Plus I am a
little bias in what I consider is the best series of planes around. As
for the Nylon or UHMP you can source that locally just look in the
yellow pages of your phone book under plastic and call the closest.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
HYPERLINK
"mailto:president@can-zacaviation.com"president@can-zacaviation.com
HYPERLINK "http://www.can-zacaviation.com/"www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hines
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 12:17 AM
Guy,
I=92m beginning to scratch build my fuselage and have a few questions.
I=92m not a welder (at least not a good one) so I need to purchase some
parts already made. The rudder pedals come with the fuselage kit and
not the controls kit. How much does ZAC charge for the rudder pedals?
Also, where do I get the nylon to make the bearing? I checked aircraft
spruce and didn=92t see any. I guess if I buy the pedals from ZAC it
comes with the nylon but there are other areas that call for nylon.
Do most scratch builders purchase controls or fabricate them? On the
homebuilt help DVD about scratch building they mention a hardware kit
but of course don=92t mention a price. I don=92t see it anywhere on
ZAC=92s
website. Sorry for rambling on. I=92ve been staring at plans all night
and I=92m starting to see double. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John
HYPERLINK "http://www.johnsplane.com/"www.johnsplane.com
Do not archive
John R. Hines
IT Manager
John.Hines@craftontull.com
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
HYPERLINK "http://www.craftontull.com/"www.craftontull.com
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 =B7Rogers, AR 72756
HYPERLINK "http://www.craftontull.com/" \n
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the
needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
system manager. This message contains confidential information and is
intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named
addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are
not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
information is strictly prohibited.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
--
Message 70
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|
| Subject: | Fuel System Poser - solved! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: fred sanford <sonar1@cox.net>
I thank everyone for all of the input about my fuel tanks not feeding
evenly in the 701. Glad I'm not the only one who has experienced this.
The responses were very helpful, leaning toward bubbles being the culprit.
To check it out, I built a fuel system mockup with two tanks, a
gascolator, and 4 gallons per hour output.
It turns out that a bubble in one of the quarter inch lines blocks fuel
flow from that tank completely, even if the line is vertical. Can't
scientifically explain it, but it happens. When the other tank runs dry,
the full tank starts flowing. The bubble either stays where it is, moves
down the line and stays there, or some of it comes out of the output.
I'm sure it is not enough air to cause the engine to quit, but it is
disconcerting to see one tank empty, and one full!
I am making a fuel cap with a 6 foot hose, so I can blow any bubbles
into the opposite tank as part of the preflight before any long flights.
Should fix the problem.
Fred Sanford N9701 Santa Barbara, Ca. 70 hours loving it!
Message 71
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|
| Subject: | Re: Serial Number 6483 |
Is there going to be an official or unofficial meeting place at
Arlington? Like the Zenith display or?
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: Zodie Rocket
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 9:40 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Serial Number 6483
They make you leave all of your beef at home also. I will be heading
to Arlington tomorrow.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
president@can-zacaviation.com
www.can-zacaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Ruddiman
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 4:45 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Serial Number 6483
Larry,
Do you know if you are going to Arlington. I'm getting all fired up
and ready to go. My wife is punishing me and probably won't be there
with me. I think I'll be ok without here though. If anyone from Canada
reads this, I'll be wanting to talk to. Wife wants to go to Vancouver.
All I know is you travel North and they stop you and take your guns and
drugs away and then your there.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: LHusky@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Serial Number 6483
Dave, I was at Golden West in early May also. I was one of the guys
building a rudder to replace the one I had. It was stolen. I believe
Jim and his dad were the other guys building a rudder. I had a lot of
fun in Golden West and then went to the factory in Missouri. It was a
good month. Hopefully, I will be flying to Golden West next year.
Larry
Lakeview, OR
Fitted Firewall on front pan last night!!!
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
6/30/2006
--
6/30/2006
Message 72
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|
| Subject: | Re: Serial Number 6483 |
Hey Larry,
That really sucks. This is about the only real airplane thing I look
forward to every year. I hope everyone can connect somewhere at the
show.
Be careful. It's a jungle out there.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
From: LHusky@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Serial Number 6483
I just found out that I will not have the days off to make Arlington.
DAMN!!! Tom, from McMinville is going to go though. He is building an
XL also. Hope you all have a good time and wish I was there. Everyone
be safe.
Larry
Lakeview, OR
Message 73
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|
Hi Dave,
Sorry to have missed Golden West - again (family function). Things are not
so cool in Cool, right now. Summers can be warm, but not as warm as Lincoln.
Are you flying your 801?
Gary
_____
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ruddiman
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 8:29 PM
Gary,
I see you are from Cool California. I never heard of the place until I
bought some chairs from a Gal at Golden West fly-in that said she was from
Cool. How cool.
Dave in Salem - 801
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 6:19 PM
OK, List, time for some of that camaraderie, support, and over-all good
ideas. If I was a drinking man I'd be on my 2nd six-pack by now.
I finished my right wing (Zenith supplied kit) and started on the left wing
today. I was toe-tapping to some good country music when I realized I had
cut and drilled the rear spar as if it was for the right wing (obviously not
focused on the task at hand).
The good news is that I have plenty of aluminum as I plan on scratch
building the remainder. The bad news is that I have not yet built Dave's
Cheap Sheet Metal Bending Brake (nor do I have the parts).
I sure hate to waste the weekend and you will all feel bad if I end up at
the local watering hole tonight.
Any ideas? Do I have any options?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
Message 74
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| Subject: | Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Zenith-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Zenith-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Zenith-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Zenith-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
zenith-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "zenith-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Zenith-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Zenith-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/zenith-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Zenith-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Zenith-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 75
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
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