Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:19 AM - Fw: Rear Spar mistake (ABGS)
2. 06:03 AM - Re: Gauges (Frank Roskind)
3. 07:08 AM - Flying stuff (Brian kissinger)
4. 07:10 AM - 701 demo update (Brian kissinger)
5. 07:33 AM - Re: 22000 MF Capacitor (Noel Loveys)
6. 08:19 AM - Re: Ratchet Tiedowns ()
7. 08:38 AM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls ()
8. 08:45 AM - Re: Flying stuff (Chuck Deiterich)
9. 09:04 AM - Great tool - Cheap Pirce (Robert Schoenberger)
10. 09:04 AM - Arlington (Dan Lykowski)
11. 09:24 AM - Re: Flying stuff (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER (Tom and Bren Henderson)
13. 09:55 AM - Fw: Fuel pump puzzle (Michel Therrien)
14. 10:20 AM - Re: XL Gear Support (Tom and Bren Henderson)
15. 10:32 AM - Re: Flying stuff (Chuck Deiterich)
16. 10:43 AM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls (Tom and Bren Henderson)
17. 11:07 AM - Re: Flying stuff (Paul Mulwitz)
18. 11:29 AM - Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) (Dave and Jan Clay)
19. 11:29 AM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls (Ron Butterfield)
20. 12:07 PM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls (Paul Mulwitz)
21. 12:07 PM - Re: Fuel pump puzzle (Bryan Martin)
22. 12:09 PM - Re: Flying stuff (Dave)
23. 12:14 PM - Re: Arlington (Dave Ruddiman)
24. 12:17 PM - Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) (Randy Bryant)
25. 12:34 PM - Re: Flying stuff (ron dewees)
26. 12:37 PM - Re: Slips (Paul Tipton)
27. 12:47 PM - Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (messydeer)
28. 01:16 PM - Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) (Christopher Smith)
29. 01:30 PM - Re: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder (Ron Lee)
30. 01:38 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Tom and Bren Henderson)
31. 01:45 PM - Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) (N5SL)
32. 01:54 PM - Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls (NYTerminat@aol.com)
33. 02:06 PM - Re: Flying stuff (NYTerminat@aol.com)
34. 02:13 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (NYTerminat@aol.com)
35. 02:19 PM - Re: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder (NYTerminat@aol.com)
36. 02:41 PM - Re: Fuel pump puzzle (Michel Therrien)
37. 02:49 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Crvsecretary@aol.com)
38. 03:03 PM - Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) (Wade Jones)
39. 03:14 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Tom and Bren Henderson)
40. 03:43 PM - RE : Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Carlos Sa)
41. 03:54 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Randy Bryant)
42. 03:54 PM - Engine decisions getting easier (LarryMcFarland)
43. 03:54 PM - Fitting Stratus/601 cowl (George Swinford)
44. 04:21 PM - Plans builder HELP!!! (LHusky@aol.com)
45. 04:57 PM - Re: Engine decisions getting easier (Robin Bellach)
46. 05:31 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Noel Loveys)
47. 05:55 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (Mark Sherman)
48. 06:52 PM - flanging dies (Big Gee)
49. 07:21 PM - Re: Plans builder HELP!!! (MacDonald Doug)
50. 07:23 PM - Re: flanging dies (Randy Bryant)
51. 07:28 PM - Re: Fitting Stratus/601 cowl (LarryMcFarland)
52. 07:38 PM - Re: flanging dies (LHusky@aol.com)
53. 07:39 PM - Re: Plans builder HELP!!! (LHusky@aol.com)
54. 07:53 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (messydeer)
55. 08:53 PM - Re: Flying stuff (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
56. 08:56 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (NYTerminat@aol.com)
57. 09:14 PM - Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II (messydeer)
58. 10:03 PM - Re: Fuel pump puzzle (Bryan Martin)
59. 10:27 PM - Bending wing rear channels for scratch builders (Dave and Jan Clay)
60. 11:23 PM - Re: Fuel Sender...again... (Gary Gower)
61. 11:58 PM - Re: flanging dies (Christopher Smith)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fw: Rear Spar mistake |
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:21 PM
Allan
Plan page 6-W-7
I have drilled the hole in the rear spar for the Aileron Control Rod on
the top of the spar not on the bottom as shown
-------------------------------
You are not the first, Chris has approved the fix as shown in the
attached pdf file.
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Roskind" <frankroskind@hotmail.com>
That works after you buy the stuff, but what about before. For example,
what is the lightest weight transponder/ encoder installation, and how does
it compare to competitors? I assume there are tradeoffs between weght
savigs and costs, but not in all cases. Further, I would guess that some
radios and instruments need less stuff outside the case than others, so it
isn't jsut a matter of comparing raw instrument or radio weight. If I am
shopping different SLSAs I need to be able to guess the best aircraft for he
mission, and figure out what equipment is feasible. If radios
andinstruments weigh over 40 pounds, that can be a big deal, and might lead
to efforts to save weight. Maybe a smaller altimeter is in order. maybe a
smaller tach. Do I really need to measure EGT and CHT, and if so how many
probes? Do I really need a Nav/Com, or shoud I go with just a Com, and
carry a GPS? I thnk weight of radios and isntruments could be a big planning
issue, and I wonder where potential data is.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
The manufacturers documentation ...See there are reasons not to throw out
all that junk;^}
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Frank Roskind
> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:41 AM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gauges
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Roskind"
> <frankroskind@hotmail.com>
>
> This brings to mind a question I have had for quite a while.
> Is there a
> source for installed weights of various instruments and radios?
>
>
>
> I Agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I assembled my panel
> and"complete" it weighed
> in at 43 lbs..
> do not archive
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> -- "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija"
> <jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi>
>
> I can't wait, that I get my plane ready to fly :)
>
> It was surprising, how much this instrument panel weights.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43687#43687
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/news_dsc03791_673.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ===================================
>
> ===================================
>
> ===================================
> ===================================
>
>
>
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>
>
Message 3
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Thanks everyone for their inputs on flying, slips, etc. Like building our planes
and living our lives I hope we all do it as safe as possible but have fun.
Paul I agree with your comments and in my Luscombe I fly close patterns & sometimes
have almost full rudder in a slip depending on the situation. Slips are
fun and look cool! But a taildragger with no flaps is much different from a
701. As far as the 701 goes I can only go from what Roger at the factory told
me and that was, "it's not recommended to slip the 701 by the designer." And
I believe he said it's because of the increased side loads it puts on the airframe.
Can we slip a 701...sure...and in an emergency situation where I had one
shot at a landing strip I would. I only put this information out on the list
as that....information. It's your airplane...slip it or don't slip it....your
decision.
As another CFI mentioned on the list...don't get too slow in a slip or you risk
entering a stall or spin at a low altitude....bad situation. Practice at altitude
first.
Roger's technique is what I would consider an advanced technique with having
a low power setting to get the descent rate you want (almost a stall) then adding
power close to the ground. Look at "Stick and Rudder" chapter 14 for an explanation
of the principles of why this works.
Make sure you are comfortable with basic flying maneuvers, takeoffs, landings,
etc before you try what I mention above. Many of us have not flown in years
and need to focus on the basics. Set personal minimums for yourself, weather,
etc and stick to them. Have fun and be safe.
Cheers,
Brian
www.brainsflight.com
do not archive
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
Message 4
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I was at the factory in Mexico, MO on Friday to pick up some parts. They were
hanging a 912S Rotax (100 hp) on the 701 demo bird to get it ready for Oshkosh.
They also removed the header fuel tank to get it more in line with the configuration
they are selling now.
Cheers,
Brian
www.brainsflight.com
---------------------------------
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Message 5
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| Subject: | 22000 MF Capacitor |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Wiring a nice heavy lytic cap like that in reverse polarity will eventually
result in a big bang. The higher the voltage and current fed into the cap
in reverse polarity, the faster you will hear the bang.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Paul Mulwitz
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 7:54 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 22000 MF Capacitor
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz
> <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hi Tommy,
>
> A capacitor that large is usually polarized. That means you need to
> attach the "Plus" contact of the capacitor to the "Plus" side of your
> electrical hookup.
>
> I can't tell from your description which contact is the
> "Plus". Perhaps if you sent me a picture I could tell. There are
> many different ways of marking those parts. One popular way is to
> have a line of dashes or "Minus signs" printed on the plastic sleeve
> around the barrel of the part.
>
> It may be that the painted terminal is the plus side, but I can't be
> sure. I would have more confidence if it were red rather than black.
>
> If you can send me a picture I will be glad to look at it. I need to
> see both the top and side views including perhaps all sides.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
>
> At 02:14 PM 7/1/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tommy Walker"
> <twalker@cableone.net>
> >
> >Gents,
> >
> >I'm wiring my Rotax 912 and I have the above capacitor. I
> can't understand
> >the markings on the two terminals. one of the terminals has
> a dab of black
> >paint on it and the other is clear. Can someone tell me
> what the polarity
> >of these two terminals is/are?
> >
> >Many thanks,
> >
> >Tommy Walker in Alabama
> >
> >Do Not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Paul Mulwitz
> 32013 NE Dial Road
> Camas, WA 98607
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ratchet Tiedowns |
Ratchet TiedownsDave, virtually any kind of rig that will tighten
incrementally, and will not scratch the metal, will do. The real key is
to insert a (padded) 2x4 or equivalent so that you lay the aluminum down
evenly along the span. For an experiment, you can tighten down at one
end (very gently) and watch how everything suddenly goes crooked. For
the wing I used 2 eight-footers under either 4 or 5 straps, I forget
which. It's not as difficult as the book implies.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
It's canopy time
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave VanLanen<mailto:davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 5:46 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Ratchet Tiedowns
I need some advice on ratchet tiedowns for the stabilizer skin and
wing skins on the XL. For the stabilizer skin, the Assembly Guide
recommends five 12' endless ratchet tiedowns (#11699) from Highland.
For the wings, the Assembly Guide recommends McMaster Carr 12' 1-piece
ratchet straps (#8842T17), and does not recommend the number needed.
Is there any reason I can't use the same straps for both the
stabilizer and wings? How many will I need for the wings? Can I use
the two-piece style, since I can't seem to find the one-piece style
locally in the correct length?
Any help would be appreciated.
Dave Van Lanen
XL - stabilizer
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls |
John, I found half-inch nylon to be hideously expensive, and teflon in
that thickness pretty rare, but there are alternatives. At your local
Ace Hardware, try the Joyce Chen cutting board in their housewares
section. I got a 9x12 polyethylene cutting board, half-inch thick, for
under $10. It cuts very nice on a bandsaw, and is as slick as nylon.
Makes good cable fairleads, too, if you don't mind cutting it down to a
thinner profile.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hines<mailto:John.Hines@craftontull.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:17 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls
Guy,
I'm beginning to scratch build my fuselage and have a few questions.
I'm not a welder (at least not a good one) so I need to purchase some
parts already made. The rudder pedals come with the fuselage kit and
not the controls kit. How much does ZAC charge for the rudder pedals?
Also, where do I get the nylon to make the bearing? I checked aircraft
spruce and didn't see any. I guess if I buy the pedals from ZAC it
comes with the nylon but there are other areas that call for nylon.
Do most scratch builders purchase controls or fabricate them? On the
homebuilt help DVD about scratch building they mention a hardware kit
but of course don't mention a price. I don't see it anywhere on ZAC's
website. Sorry for rambling on. I've been staring at plans all night
and I'm starting to see double. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John
www.johnsplane.com<http://www.johnsplane.com/>
Do not archive
John R. Hines
IT Manager
John.Hines@craftontull.com
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
www.craftontull.com<http://www.craftontull.com/>
901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 =B7Rogers, AR 72756
<http://www.craftontull.com/>
Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and
understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful
solutions.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
For crosswind landings, do you always land crab into the wind. Slipping
with a wing low into the cross wind is easier than decrabbing just
before touchdown as well as the forward view is better.
Also, Sebastion Heintz has told me the 701 slips very well to lose
altitude without flaps.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian kissinger
To: Matronics Post
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Flying stuff
Thanks everyone for their inputs on flying, slips, etc. Like building
our planes and living our lives I hope we all do it as safe as possible
but have fun.
Paul I agree with your comments and in my Luscombe I fly close
patterns & sometimes have almost full rudder in a slip depending on the
situation. Slips are fun and look cool! But a taildragger with no
flaps is much different from a 701. As far as the 701 goes I can only
go from what Roger at the factory told me and that was, "it's not
recommended to slip the 701 by the designer." And I believe he said
it's because of the increased side loads it puts on the airframe. Can we
slip a 701...sure...and in an emergency situation where I had one shot
at a landing strip I would. I only put this information out on the list
as that....information. It's your airplane...slip it or don't slip
it....your decision.
As another CFI mentioned on the list...don't get too slow in a slip or
you risk entering a stall or spin at a low altitude....bad situation.
Practice at altitude first.
Roger's technique is what I would consider an advanced technique with
having a low power setting to get the descent rate you want (almost a
stall) then adding power close to the ground. Look at "Stick and
Rudder" chapter 14 for an explanation of the principles of why this
works.
Make sure you are comfortable with basic flying maneuvers, takeoffs,
landings, etc before you try what I mention above. Many of us have not
flown in years and need to focus on the basics. Set personal minimums
for yourself, weather, etc and stick to them. Have fun and be safe.
Cheers,
Brian
www.brainsflight.com
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
rates.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Great tool - Cheap Pirce |
List . . . While at Harbor Freight to get something else, I impulse
bought a "Magnet / Mirror Pickup Tool" for $7 plus change. It has a
handle from which a rod telescopes 27" out. There is an attaching
sleeve like an air hose connection onto which you can mount one of three
mirrors, a magnifying glass, or one of 2 magnets (all supplied).
Included in the handle is a light which goes out parallel to the rod and
reflects off the mirror onto the work being inspected. They even
include 2 batteries. I'm doing the fus right now and there are many
instances when I need to look on the backside of the vertical L's to
check the rivet alignment. I wish I had this tool when I was building
the wings. Should be good also for looking inside fuel tanks. Robert
Schoenberger 701
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Lykowski <engineerguy3737@yahoo.com>
Was there ever a consensus on when/where for
Arlington?
Dan Lykowski
CH601XL
__________________________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
Hi Chuck,
I am not sure whether your question was for me, but I will answer it anyway.
My default method of handling crosswind landings is to use the slip
method. I keep the runway centerline pointing toward my airplane
with ailerons and keep the nose pointing down the runway with rudder.
I do this with power off in most cases. The two exceptions to the
power off approach are: When operating at large airports where it is
important to stay fast in the traffic pattern (this can include
instrument approaches and straight in approaches) so I don't cause
problems for the heavy planes landing behind me; and when the
crosswind is too high for this approach to work.
I don't really like the crab approach, but that is probably just a
matter of habit. The crab approach works just fine and I can perform
it if I choose to do so. I think it works because the wind is
usually much lower at the ground than when clear of any ground
effects. I don't fly planes with huge wing spans and probably never
will, so that issue is moot for me.
For some reason I am not particularly surprised Sebastian Heintz
would say something completely different from what Roger said. I
don't have a 701, so it is not a big issue for me. I would probably
pay more attention to Roger since my experience with him is much more
positive than my experience with Sebastian which has been universally
negative. In the 701 slip case, I would certainly follow the advice
of those listers who suggested practicing the maneuver at altitude
before using it for landing.
Happy landings,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
>For crosswind landings, do you always land crab into the
>wind. Slipping with a wing low into the cross wind is easier than
>decrabbing just before touchdown as well as the forward view is better.
>
>Also, Sebastion Heintz has told me the 701 slips very well to lose
>altitude without flaps.
>
>Chuck D.
>N701TX
-
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tony Bingelis' books/ STICK AND RUDDER |
My instructor (12K hours) put us through spin recovery on my fifth lesson,
and slips are praticed every time we work on short field landings. Avoided?
Perhaps if you're going to a flight 'school' that's more worried about insurance
premiums than teaching you to fly safely...
Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill
Naumuk"
J-
I speak only from my own experiences with newly minted CFIs. After
shooting a number of the current textbook's landings with one, he said "Make
a landing however you want".
So I did the old WWII "Tight to the field" pattern. Turned to final (Of
course) high and he said "You're too high, you'll never make it". Went into
a slip and he said "Are you trying to kill us- you're cross controlled!"
Don't know how it is where you're from, but around our area, slips and
spins are maneuvers to be avoided.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:44 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jsimons2"
>
> Hmmmm, maybe I should give the book back to my brother in law. He had it
> from his flight instruction many years ago and loaned it to me since I
> want to get my PPL. Better yet, I'll go ahead and read it and perhaps get
> kicked out of flight school. LOL [Laughing]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44156#44156
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Fuel pump puzzle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Test test test... no response yet...
Anybody here using Facet pumps?
>
> Good morning!
>
> I recently discovered that my fuel pumps are less
> efficient in flight. Fuel pressure (which is
> measured
> at the gascolator) gets down to ONE psi.
>
> I have one pump at each wing tank (Fred, I'm not
> sucking fuel :-) I also have a third pump at the
> firewall.
>
> Performance is the same with both the left and right
> pumps. I feel the pressure is a tad higher when
> using
> the firewall pump.
>
> I did a test on the ground. Fuel flow is exactly
> the
> same from the 3 pumps and is same as new pumps (25
> gal/hr). Fuel pressure on the ground is normal (5
> psi
> per pump approx).
>
> Anybody would know why I don't get the usual 3-5 psi
> in flight? (now it is more like 1 to 3)
>
> Yesterday, as a workaround, I used the firewall pump
> in conjunction with the wing pumps (firewall pump is
> in series) and I got 4-6 psi.
>
> Michel
> PS: the pumps I use are the Facet 40108 pumps. The
> wing pumps have approx 200 hours of use each.
> Firewall pump is much less solicitated.
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: XL Gear Support |
Amen to that. This re-inforces the rule, "Read ahead, WAY ahead." Read your
ENTIRE assembly guide AND all your prints before doing any work, and you'll
save yourself a huge headache in the future. I lucked out in that I first assembled
my 601XL virtually in 3D CAD. Anything that didn't fit so well, or protruded
through another part un-naturally, could be trimmed or adjusted prior
laser cutting.
One note though, some of the parts should not be trimmed prior to assembly,
as each aircraft is going to be unique. I may need to trim 2mm, where you
may need only 1mm or less in certain places.
Jaybannist@cs.com wrote: Another point: It really irritates me that now I am told
that I must trim the end of the gear channel 2 or 3 mm to clear the weld on
the gear support bracket. It would be a major problem, at this point, to take
the gear channel out of the assembly to do this trimming.
If you can still hold the gear channel in your hand, I would suggest that you
do this trimming before the channel is "buried" in the fuselage!
Jay in Dallas
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
Paul,
Actually my note was for Brian Kissinger.
Like you, I prefer to keep on the airplane fuselage lined up with the
runway (side slip) and when the wind requires it, I land on one rear
main to keep from drifting sideways. I may send a note to ZAC about a
forward slip in the 701.
Chuck D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying stuff
Hi Chuck,
I am not sure whether your question was for me, but I will answer it
anyway.
My default method of handling crosswind landings is to use the slip
method. I keep the runway centerline pointing toward my airplane with
ailerons and keep the nose pointing down the runway with rudder.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls |
McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com) is a good source for Nylon 6/6, as well as aluminum
extrusion and other materials for your XL. They're not as cheap as some
of the others, but everything is in one place and almost always stock. The Nylon
mentioned below is part #8674K35 and sells for $14.51 for 24 inches of the
stuff.
paulrod36@msn.com wrote: @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in
1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in
0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN:
0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION:
underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
} A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{ COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.EmailStyle17
{ COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-compose }
DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } John, I found half-inch nylon to be hideously
expensive, and teflon in that thickness pretty rare, but there are alternatives.
At your local Ace Hardware, try the Joyce Chen cutting board in their
housewares section. I got a 9x12 polyethylene
cutting board, half-inch thick, for under $10. It cuts very nice on a bandsaw,
and is as slick as nylon. Makes good cable fairleads, too, if you don't mind
cutting it down to a thinner profile.
Paul Rodriguez
601XL/Corvair
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hines
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:17 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls
Guy,
Im beginning to scratch build my fuselage and have a few questions. Im not
a welder (at least not a good one) so I need to purchase some parts already
made. The rudder pedals come with the fuselage kit and not the controls
kit. How much does ZAC charge for the rudder pedals? Also, where do I get
the nylon to make the bearing? I checked aircraft spruce and didnt see
any. I guess if I buy the pedals from ZAC it comes with the nylon but there
are other areas that call for nylon.
Do most scratch builders purchase controls or fabricate them? On the homebuilt
help DVD about scratch building they mention a hardware kit but of course
dont mention a price. I dont see it anywhere on ZACs website. Sorry
for rambling on. Ive been staring at plans all night and Im starting to
see double. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John
www.johnsplane.com
Do not archive
John R. Hines
IT Manager John.Hines@craftontull.com
Office: 479-878-2449
Mobile: 479-366-4783
Fax: 479-631-6224
www.craftontull.com 901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 Rogers, AR 72756 Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate,
distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately
by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail
from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified
that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on
the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
Hi Chuck,
I think writing to ZAC on the slip question is a great idea.
I would guess the kind of slip which may not be a good idea for the
701 is the deep cross controlled condition used to dump lots of
altitude without gaining airspeed. I can't imagine it is
inappropriate to do the mild version of a slip commonly used to deal
with mild crosswind landings.
Sometimes I wish it were easy to ask Chris Heintz questions like this
rather than trying to get Sebastian or one of the other guys to
really understand the question.
Paul
XL Fuselage
do not archive
>Paul,
>Actually my note was for Brian Kissinger.
>Like you, I prefer to keep on the airplane fuselage lined up with
>the runway (side slip) and when the wind requires it, I land on one
>rear main to keep from drifting sideways. I may send a note to ZAC
>about a forward slip in the 701.
>Chuck D.
-
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) |
I just made my rear wing channels today. Bent them with my trusty $75
bending brake. They turned out great. I'm going the 6 foot spliced route. If
the good folks at Can Zac think it's OK, and Zen-Master Scott Laughlin
thinks it's OK, and most importantly, if Chris Heintz thinks it's OK...then
its OK with me.
If anyone is interested I can email you step by step instructions (with
photos) showing how I did this task.
Dave
Scratch building wings
_________________________________________________________________
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ron Butterfield <rbutterfield@mebtel.net>
Tom and Bren Henderson wrote:
> McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com) is a good source for Nylon 6/6, as well as aluminum
extrusion and other materials for your XL. They're not as cheap as some
of the others, but everything is in one place and almost always stock. The
Nylon mentioned below is part #8674K35 and sells for $14.51 for 24 inches of
the stuff.
They also have UHMW Polyethylene, which is significantly more slippery
than Nylon, about as strong, and much cheaper. For example, part number
9721K31 is 1/2 x 2 x 12 pieces for $3.47. It also is available in a wide
variety of sizes.
If you search for just the material name, they have a very nice
'drill-down' feature which allows you to specify exactly the
specifications you need.
I've used them for years for hardware needs at work and their customer
service has been second to none.
--
Regards,
RonB
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz@worldnet.att.net>
>They also have UHMW Polyethylene, which is significantly more
>slippery than Nylon, about as strong, and much cheaper. For example,
>part number 9721K31 is 1/2 x 2 x 12 pieces for $3.47. It also is
>available in a wide variety of sizes.
That is all true, but Nylon has a very high melting point compared to
other plastics. I would use the Nylon or ask ZAC for approval to use
a cheaper material. While Nylon is an expensive plastic, there is a
reason why it is used for aircraft purposes.
Paul
XL Fuselage
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump puzzle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
I am but I haven't seen any similar problem with my plane. It sounds
like a fuel tank venting issue. That's the only thing I can think of
offhand that would show these symptoms.
On Jul 3, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Michel Therrien wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> Test test test... no response yet...
>
> Anybody here using Facet pumps?
>
>
>>
>> Good morning!
>>
>> I recently discovered that my fuel pumps are less
>> efficient in flight. Fuel pressure (which is
>> measured
>> at the gascolator) gets down to ONE psi.
>>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
I have had little luck with the "kick it straight" method and also slip
and if required land on the upwind wheel. If one were to be a little hot
and kicked it straight and then found the aircraft floating a little in
ground effect with the "kick it straight" method I expect one would soon
find the runway sliding off to one side. AMHIK.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Deiterich
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying stuff
Paul,
Actually my note was for Brian Kissinger.
Like you, I prefer to keep on the airplane fuselage lined up with the
runway (side slip) and when the wind requires it, I land on one rear
main to keep from drifting sideways. I may send a note to ZAC about a
forward slip in the 701.
Chuck D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying stuff
Hi Chuck,
I am not sure whether your question was for me, but I will answer it
anyway.
My default method of handling crosswind landings is to use the slip
method. I keep the runway centerline pointing toward my airplane with
ailerons and keep the nose pointing down the runway with rudder.
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Ruddiman" <pacificpainting@comcast.net>
Someone said Thursday afternoon. I'll be there. I guess if we check in at
the Zenith display maybe we can all hook up there.
Dave in Salem
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:04 AM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dan Lykowski
> <engineerguy3737@yahoo.com>
>
> Was there ever a consensus on when/where for
> Arlington?
>
> Dan Lykowski
> CH601XL
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Bryant" <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com>
If you'd like me to post the step by step on my site, send them to me and
I'll put em' up...
Thanks,
Randy
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:26 PM
>I just made my rear wing channels today. Bent them with my trusty $75
> bending brake. They turned out great. I'm going the 6 foot spliced route.
> If
> the good folks at Can Zac think it's OK, and Zen-Master Scott Laughlin
> thinks it's OK, and most importantly, if Chris Heintz thinks it's
> OK...then
> its OK with me.
>
> If anyone is interested I can email you step by step instructions (with
> photos) showing how I did this task.
>
> Dave
> Scratch building wings
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
I have been following the slip/crab/flaps/no flaps subject with a lot of
interest. I fly a 601HDS taildragger out of a short turf strip and
it's a no brainer to slip to lose altitude- not because I'm showing off,
but because of no flaps and high obstacles at each end. The caveat
every poster mentions with whatever his/her best method of losing
altitude is to avoid a "coffin corner" edge-of-the-envelope stall and
possible spin entry.
The Lift Reserve Indicator that Scott Laughlin has helped provide
many of us with has sure taken the guesswork out of this question for
me. I put it right on the top of my panel and it will tell me what the
lift is doing at any speed or altitude or power setting. I strongly
reccomend it if you are going to do slips and crabs or just want to nail
your landing speeds in any condition. It will even convince a newbie
CFI that you have lift and control of the plane.
Ron N601TD 140 hours
Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> Hi Chuck,
>
> I think writing to ZAC on the slip question is a great idea.
>
> I would guess the kind of slip which may not be a good idea for the
> 701 is the deep cross controlled condition used to dump lots of
> altitude without gaining airspeed. I can't imagine it is
> inappropriate to do the mild version of a slip commonly used to deal
> with mild crosswind landings.
-----------snip-------
>
>
> Paul
> XL Fuselage
> do not archive
>
Message 26
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|
I hate to get into this, because there are many more people out there
with much more experience than I have. From my limited (100 hours)
experience. Slips work very well in the 701. I have not needed slips
and full flaps or any flaps for that matter. If you are that high,
go around. The flaps are very effective, but your closing speed to the
ground will make you pucker. Your flare and/or the application of power
becomes critical. The reducing power works well too, if you remember to
keep your speed up. The prop acts as a big air brake and (the key
statement) you have no inertia. The best statement I have read about
the 701, is if you pull power on landing, be prepared to land and park
at the same time. The lack of inertia and powerful engine also means
the throttle gets almost instant results. The good part is you get
instant results... the bad part is you get instant results. Over
control can be a problem. It is very easy to fly the approach speed
with a constant throttle to the runway. Slips work very well to alter
your glide slope and you never have to bother your throttle or speed.
It does not fly like a Cessna, Piper, Beech or anything else I have ever
flown. It does not float. The caveat with all this info is I fly a 701
with the 912 ULS. It is a great combination. I cannot attest to any
other combination. I differ to anyone with more experience. I learn
something different every time I go up. Every landing is different.
There are an infinite amount of combinations you can try. Some will
work better than others with this plane. All I can say to the people
that are not flying yet... it is worth it.
321PT
Message 27
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| Subject: | Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I draped a vinyl
shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around the edges. Things went
pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2 w/ water as suggested
in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape over areas that stuck out
above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed with the results.
Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes, there was little color change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the old bath, making
the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick. Only took 5 minutes for
the desired color change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts took longer
to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was recycled from my first
session a month ago. Although Henkel says you can re-use the solution, it
seems fresh Alodine does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some patchiness. I did
prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured w/ scotchbrite; rinse
w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate (tempo cans). Alodine
is supposed to help promote adhesion of the primer. Given the patchiness
of its coat and the hassle with its application, I'm considering just acid etching
and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this sound to you zinc
chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44570#44570
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) |
You know I will as well Dave...Please send.
On 7/3/06, Dave and Jan Clay <dclaytx2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just made my rear wing channels today. Bent them with my trusty $75
> bending brake. They turned out great. I'm going the 6 foot spliced route.
> If
> the good folks at Can Zac think it's OK, and Zen-Master Scott Laughlin
> thinks it's OK, and most importantly, if Chris Heintz thinks it's
> OK...then
> its OK with me.
>
> If anyone is interested I can email you step by step instructions (with
> photos) showing how I did this task.
>
> Dave
> Scratch building wings
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder |
I never land my 701 with any power on final. Most of the time I use no
power from the downwind threshold. Occasionally I will have to add a
touch of power to make the runway, but only if I am to far from the
runway on downwind, or there is a tailwind on downwind that I have
miscalculated. Yes, it drops fast and the window to flare is small but
it is not hard to master.
Ron Lee
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Schoenberger
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder
In very light planes such as the 701, isn't the power on to landing
due to the lack of inertia of these planes? Robert Schoenberger 701 do
not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mulwitz
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder
Hi Brian,
Thank you for your post on the crosswind landing issue. Your
comprehensive coverage of this topic leads me to ask you for further
information and opinion.
First is the issue of performing a forward slip landing with flaps
(or in the case of the 701 with slats). I think I have heard several
instructors suggest that either flaps or a slip is appropriate for
losing extra altitude on final approach but not both. I don't know why
both would be inappropriate, but I have never done the slip with flaps
because of that comment The kind of slip I am talking about in this
case is not the light one to compensate for a crosswind but the deep one
used to dump altitude.
The other issue is one that has bothered me ever since contemplating
flying again after some 15 years on the ground. It seems popular today
for pilots to land light planes with power all the way to touchdown. I
know this is common practice with multiengine planes, but in the old
days I was taught to make the final approach with power off (unless
there was a good reason to do otherwise like trying to stay ahead of
heavy traffic at high use airports). I think the power off approach
works just fine in most cases and also gives the pilot plenty of
practice for dead stick landings in case of engine failure. I don't
know of any advantage of using power on all approaches other than it
makes them a little easier to perform. Sadly, there seem to be too many
owners of light aircraft who come to a bad end when they fail to make a
good approach after an engine failure and hit the only tree around or
fail to clear the final hurdle.
In Roger's case, I can't help but wonder what will happen if his
"Behind the curve" dumping of altitude is punctuated by a failure of the
engine to slow the descent as you described. I have heard of doing that
sort of approach with power on, but never with power off. The power on
version is somewhat like a helicopter landing and allows for crazy
pilots to make incredibly short ground rolls, but is not for the
uninitiated or weak of heart.
I would love to hear you comments on the above issues.
Best regards,
Paul
XL fuselage
I not a very good builder and I am not much better as a pilot.
However I do have a CFI rating, thousands of flying hours, flown several
different taildraggers, currently own/fly a Luscombe, taught some people
how to fly and given several tailwheel endorsements. I haven't killed
myself, wrecked, or groundlooped any airplanes....yet. I
wholeheartedly agree with the endorsement of Stick & Rudder. It's an
essential book for every pilot. The first time I read part 1 "Wings"
and Chapter 1 "How a Wing is Flown" it cleared up so much confusion in
my previous 16 years of flying (including Air Force training). Get it,
read it, re-read it.
As far as crosswind landings go...I've seen 2 main schools of
thought. What I like is what I typically teach in a taildragger....wing
low into the wind to stop cross track....opposite rudder as needed to
keep the nose pointed straight down the runway. Other pilots like to
maintain a crab into the wind and then take it out when they are close
to the ground. There can be a heated debate on both sides of this topic.
As far as the 701 goes, I flew with Roger at the factory again a
few weeks ago and he said the plane is recommended not to be slipped (by
Chris Heintz). He demonstrated to me in a power off/nose high
configuration that the airplane will come down quickly and then added
power as we got closer to the ground for a soft landing. That was
Roger's technique. I know many on this list have been flying their
planes for hundreds of hours and will probably have their own techniques
that work.
Thanks everyone for sharing information on this wonderful
builder's list...I am glad Jon survived his crash and I am glad our
airplanes are designed to take a beating.
Cheers,
Brian "Brain" Kissinger
www.brainsflight.com
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
I live in the wet jungles of Oregon, and very few builders here are going to
the trouble of Etching, Alodine, and Zinc. Nearly everyone is using Zinc Chromate
on mating surfaces, but many of those builders are just using a scotchbrite
pad to rough the surface prior to spraying. With more rainy and wet days
than sunny, the aircraft are still exhibiting very good corrosion resistance
when using 6061-T6. Note that the important part of that sentence is the "T6-6061"
part.
If you're using a less corrosion resistant type of aluminum (2024-T3 is common)
you'll want to do all you can to prolong the life of the aircraft. 6061-T6
will still benefit from the Etch, Alodine, Zinc process, but already exhibits
excellent corrosion resistance (due in part to being artificially aged during
the production porocess).
messydeer <messydeer@yahoo.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer"
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I draped a vinyl
shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around the edges. Things went
pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2 w/ water as suggested
in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape over areas that stuck out
above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed with the results.
Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes, there was little color change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the old bath, making
the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick. Only took 5 minutes for
the desired color change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts took longer
to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was recycled from my first
session a month ago. Although Henkel says you can re-use the solution, it
seems fresh Alodine does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some patchiness. I did
prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured w/ scotchbrite; rinse
w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate (tempo cans). Alodine
is supposed to help promote adhesion of the primer. Given the patchiness
of its coat and the hassle with its application, I'm considering just acid etching
and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this sound to you zinc
chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44570#44570
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: N5SL <nfivesl@yahoo.com>
Wow Dave! That picture looks like you came to my
garage and cleaned it up and took that picture! Mine
used to be that clean but somehow it got messy and I
can't bring myself to stop and re-organize it before I
finish my airplane.
Your rear channel bend looks great. I think the
spliced channel is stronger than the 12' version since
you reinforce the channel right where you drill the
big hole for the aileron control rod. Chris H. is
good with it and I have a sketch from him to prove it.
Just to be clear, the splice is a mini-channel that
fits inside the flanges of the channel, not just a
plate. It's a tricky bend to get just right so get
some scrap pieces ready for trial and error.
Great work,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Wishing my garage was as clean as Dave's.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--- Dave and Jan Clay <dclaytx2@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I just made my rear wing channels today. Bent them
> with my trusty $75
> bending brake. They turned out great. I'm going the
> 6 foot spliced route. If
> the good folks at Can Zac think it's OK,
__________________________________________________
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch build question - Fuselage & controls |
The only place I know that you can call at 5 pm and still get material
ordered by the next day AM!!!!!! And that is their normal service. Ron said it
best " their service has been second to none"
Bob Spudis
Do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 2:30:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rbutterfield@mebtel.net writes:
Tom and Bren Henderson wrote:
> McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com) is a good source for Nylon 6/6
I've used them for years for hardware needs at work and their customer
service has been second to none.
--
Regards,
RonB
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
Ron,
How long is your field and how high are your obstacles?? I have a 1300 ft
grass strip with 150 ft power lines at one end and 50 ft trees at the other.
Other runway is 700 ft with 30 ft trees on takeoff side. I was just wondering
what your take off and landing requirements are.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:36:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rdewees@mindspring.com writes:
I have been following the slip/crab/flaps/no flaps subject with a lot of
interest. I fly a 601HDS taildragger out of a short turf strip and
it's a no brainer to slip to lose altitude- not because I'm showing off,
but because of no flaps and high obstacles at each end.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
Dan,
Not to get another scotchbrite and primer debate going, I just used the
scotchbrite and cleaned with lacquer thinner and sprayed with self etching primer
and have had great results.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:49:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
messydeer@yahoo.com writes:
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I draped a
vinyl shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around the edges.
Things went pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2 w/ water as
suggested in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape over areas that
stuck out above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed with the
results. Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes, there was little
color change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the old bath,
making the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick. Only took 5 minutes
for the desired color change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts took
longer to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was recycled from
my first session a month ago. Although Henkel says you can re-use the
solution, it seems fresh Alodine does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some patchiness.
I did prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured w/ scotchbrite;
rinse w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate (tempo
cans). Alodine is supposed to help promote adhesion of the primer. Given the
patchiness of its coat and the hassle with its application, I'm considering just
acid etching and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this sound to
you zinc chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Flying techniques and Stick & Rudder |
Ron
What kind of sink rate are you getting, what is your glide speed , are you
using flaps and what type/size runway are you using?
I usually keep power in right to touchdown except when I fly over my 150'
power line approach to my grass strip.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX
In a message dated 7/3/2006 4:31:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rlee468@comcast.net writes:
I never land my 701 with any power on final. Most of the time I use no power
from the downwind threshold. Occasionally I will have to add a touch of
power to make the runway, but only if I am to far from the runway on downwind,
or
there is a tailwind on downwind that I have miscalculated. Yes, it drops
fast and the window to flare is small but it is not hard to master.
Ron Lee
Tucson, AZ
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:09 AM
In very light planes such as the 701, isn't the power on to landing due to
the lack of inertia of these planes? Robert Schoenberger 701 do not archive
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump puzzle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I noticed when I fueled up at an airport recently
(with 91 octane mogas). The performance of the pump
(the fueling pump) was very poor for the first 20
seconds (fuel was flowing very slowly). The man
mentioned something about fueling be slow when
gasoline temperature is high (due to vapor, or
whatever). As a matter of fact, as soon as cool
gasoline entered the pump, it became faster.
Could this be the same type of problem? I suppose the
gas is fairly hot in those alum wing fuel tanks.
Any way to improve this?
Michel
--- Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin
> <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>
> I am but I haven't seen any similar problem with my
> plane. It sounds
> like a fuel tank venting issue. That's the only
> thing I can think of
> offhand that would show these symptoms.
>
> On Jul 3, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Michel Therrien wrote:
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien
> <mtherr@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Test test test... no response yet...
> >
> > Anybody here using Facet pumps?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Good morning!
> >>
> >> I recently discovered that my fuel pumps are less
> >> efficient in flight. Fuel pressure (which is
> >> measured
> >> at the gascolator) gets down to ONE psi.
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
> do not archive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________________________
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
Hello Bob and Listers:
I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can approach for the
horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons with acceptable results.
I have
two questions for everyone:
1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand. I'm using a
plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to remain nameless so as not to
incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the parts to take the shine off
them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or something to make the job move along?
2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a scotchbrite/lacquer
thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff REALLY sticks !!!! I like it
-
but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a two-part epoxy primer?
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 5:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
NYTerminat@aol.com writes:
Dan,
Not to get another scotchbrite and primer debate going, I just used the
scotchbrite and cleaned with lacquer thinner and sprayed with self etching primer
and have had great results.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:49:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
messydeer@yahoo.com writes:
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I draped a
vinyl shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around the edges.
Things went pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2 w/ water as
suggested in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape over areas that
stuck out above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed with the
results. Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes, there was little
color change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the old bath,
making the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick. Only took 5 minutes
for the desired color change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts took
longer to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was recycled from
my first session a month ago. Although Henkel says you can re-use the
solution, it seems fresh Alodine does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some patchiness.
I did prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured w/ scotchbrite;
rinse w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate (tempo
cans). Alodine is supposed to help promote adhesion of the primer. Given the
patchiness of its coat and the hassle with its application, I'm considering just
acid etching and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this sound to
you zinc chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rear Wing Channels (Scratch Builder Question) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wade Jones" <waj@quik.com>
Great looking work Dave ,your brake design must be working well .Building
the brake is my next task .Please e-mail me the rear wing channel photos
.Thanks Wade
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 1:26 PM
>I just made my rear wing channels today. Bent them with my trusty $75
> bending brake. They turned out great. I'm going the 6 foot spliced route.
> If
> the good folks at Can Zac think it's OK, and Zen-Master Scott Laughlin
> thinks it's OK, and most importantly, if Chris Heintz thinks it's
> OK...then
> its OK with me.
>
> If anyone is interested I can email you step by step instructions (with
> photos) showing how I did this task.
>
> Dave
> Scratch building wings
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
3M makes a Roloc disk for use with a 90-degree die grinder. You can get it in
any flavor of standard scotch-brite pad. Be carefull with your RPMS. It will
eat right through your .020 skins if you're too high!
Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote: Hello Bob and Listers:
I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can approach for the horizontal
stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons with acceptable results. I have two
questions for everyone:
1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand. I'm using a plain
old scotchbrite pad (number and color to remain nameless so as not to incite
another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the parts to take the shine off them.
Is there an easier way? A wheel or something to make the job move along?
2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/two-part
epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff REALLY sticks !!!! I like it - but
it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a two-part epoxy primer?
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 5:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, NYTerminat@aol.com
writes:
Dan,
Not to get another scotchbrite and primer debate going, I just used the scotchbrite
and cleaned with lacquer thinner and sprayed with self etching primer
and have had great results.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:49:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, messydeer@yahoo.com
writes:
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I draped a vinyl
shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around the edges.
Things went pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2 w/ water
as suggested in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape over areas that
stuck out above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed
with the results. Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes, there
was little color change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the old bath,
making the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick. Only took 5 minutes
for the desired color change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts
took longer to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was
recycled from my first session a month ago. Although Henkel says you can
re-use the solution, it seems fresh Alodine does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some patchiness.
I did prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured w/ scotchbrite;
rinse w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate (tempo cans).
Alodine is supposed to help promote adhesion of the primer. Given the
patchiness of its coat and the hassle with its application, I'm considering
just acid etching and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this
sound to you zinc chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
I use a rubber disk with velcro hooks, meant for sand paper.
Scotch brite (of any colour) will stick to it.
The disk is some 5" in diameter, so it won't reach the tight spots.
But it will speed up the larger stratches of Al...
Carlos
--- Crvsecretary@aol.com a crit :
>
> Hello Bob and Listers:
>
> I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can approach for the
> horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons with acceptable results.
I have
> two questions for everyone:
>
> 1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand. I'm using a
> plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to remain nameless so as not to
> incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the parts to take the shine off
> them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or something to make the job move along?
>
> 2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a scotchbrite/lacquer
> thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff REALLY sticks !!!! I like
it -
> but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a two-part epoxy primer?
>
>
> Tracy Smith
> Naugatuck, CT
> 601xl N458XL (reserved)
__________________________________________________________
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
Afix the scotchbrite pad to a vibrating or random orbital sander...
This will should help.
Randy
XL Wings - Plans Only
http://www.n344rb.com
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Crvsecretary@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II
Hello Bob and Listers:
I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can approach for the
horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons with acceptable
results. I have two questions for everyone:
1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand. I'm using
a plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to remain nameless so as
not to incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the parts to take
the shine off them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or something to
make the job move along?
2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a scotchbrite/lacquer
thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff REALLY sticks !!!! I
like it - but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a two-part epoxy
primer?
Tracy Smith
Naugatuck, CT
601xl N458XL (reserved)
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 5:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
NYTerminat@aol.com writes:
Dan,
Not to get another scotchbrite and primer debate going, I just used
the scotchbrite and cleaned with lacquer thinner and sprayed with self
etching primer and have had great results.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX 701/912S
do not archive
In a message dated 7/3/2006 3:49:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
messydeer@yahoo.com writes:
Hi!
I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep. I
draped a vinyl shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's underneath around
the edges. Things went pretty well. Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta
white.
After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine, 1:2
w/ water as suggested in their literature. Used cheesecloth to drape
over areas that stuck out above the bath and kept it pretty moist. I was
dissappointed with the results. Even after leaving parts in their for 15
minutes, there was little color change.
I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to the
old bath, making the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to do the trick.
Only took 5 minutes for the desired color change. But I did notice the
2nd batch of parts took longer to change. I might also mention the
original 1:2 bath was recycled from my first session a month ago.
Although Henkel says you can re-use the solution, it seems fresh Alodine
does a much better job.
But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got some
patchiness. I did prep well: dish soap solution sprayed on and scoured
w/ scotchbrite; rinse w/ water; wipe w/ lacquer thinner; kept
fingerprints off parts.
Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc chromate
(tempo cans). Alodine is supposed to help promote adhesion of the
primer. Given the patchiness of its coat and the hassle with its
application, I'm considering just acid etching and then zinc chromate
without Alodine. How does this sound to you zinc chromaters?
Thanks,
Dan[/b]
--------
Dan
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Engine decisions getting easier |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Hi Guys,
This month's Kit Planes Magazine was a real value. Frank Hinde wrote a
very honest and candid article on the Stratus Subaru EA81 that was
extremely well done. A BD5 was also featured with a Subaru EA81 that
could have kept Jim Bede out of Bankruptcy. Also the $10K Rev Master
3000 was featured in the same magazine. When this engine gets into
production, its price/performance will seriously eat into the Jabaru and
Rotax market. Really worth while reading, especially those of you that
haven't decided on an engine just yet.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Fitting Stratus/601 cowl |
I'm encouraged by the good responses to my cowl questions. Here is
another:
Is it best to assemble the two halves of the cowl on the work table and
somehow clamp or cleco them together before fitting one or both to the
fuselage? With the Stratus engine in place it isn't possible to fit the
lower cowl to the fuselage without trimming it to clear the various
"lumps" on the engine. Trimming the lower cowl seems to be a cut and
fit sort of process. Also, it seems to be necessary to establish the
position and slope of the upper cowl pretty early in the process. Any
advice from those who have been there already?
George Swinford
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Plans builder HELP!!! |
OK, I live in the desert! It is 100 miles to the nearest Taco Bell. I am
320 miles from my building buddy who is also building a 601XL. I am at a
point in my fuselage where I need to flange my holes. The holes are cut, just
needs flanged. I bought a 2 wheel flanging tool from Aircraft Tool Supply
because Aircraft Spruce is back ordered. They said the company has been back
ordered for some time now and the manufacture said it will be at least another
month, so I bought this one. IT STINKS!!! It took me 30 minutes to mess up a
perfectly good hole. It won't be seen, so that is the good news. I am
wanting to build my center wing spar, but I have to flange the holes first and
the front one can be seen if someone at a fly in looks hard enough.
I have been all over town trying to find someone who can make these dye's
for me and there just is no equipment here to do it. I don't care if they are
made of silly putty!! Does anyone know someone who can make them, or does
anyone have a set they would be willing to sell or rent to me. I am running
out of things to do on the fuse now. I still have wings to build after the fu
se!! I could continue using the tool I just bought, but I really hate using
it. My building buddy already has a lot on his plate and needs his tools
right now. We were neck and neck in the build, but he has long passed me. I
looked at the Sonex site, but there's is smaller and I would rather stay with
the plans. Any help would be appreciated. I work as a police officer and a
correctional officer, so I don't have a lot of time to look for these specialty
tools, especially in the middle of NOWHERE!!! I will take wood, metal,
plastic, or even dried mud dye's right now.
Thanks,
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
Building Fuse, but thinking about building the engine instead!!
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine decisions getting easier |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robin Bellach" <601zv@ritternet.com>
The article also includes Bill Clapp's fantastic Corvair powered KR-2
(complete firewall forward about $3,500). This William Wynne Corvair
conversion is my choice for my 601XL.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 5:52 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
>
>
> Hi Guys,
> This month's Kit Planes Magazine was a real value. Frank Hinde wrote a
> very honest and candid article on the Stratus Subaru EA81 that was
> extremely well done. A BD5 was also featured with a Subaru EA81 that could
> have kept Jim Bede out of Bankruptcy. Also the $10K Rev Master 3000 was
> featured in the same magazine. When this engine gets into production, its
> price/performance will seriously eat into the Jabaru and Rotax market.
> Really worth while reading, especially those of you that haven't decided
> on an engine just yet.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Did you do a water break test? Spray a little clean water on the prepared
aluminium and it should coat the aluminium without any breaks in the
water... Then it's ready for the Alodine. I've used Alodine several times
without the splochyness you describe.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 5:16 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi!
>
> I spent most of yesterday etching my VS parts with Alumiprep.
> I draped a vinyl shower curtain across my table w/ 2x4's
> underneath around the edges. Things went pretty well.
> Aluminum fizzed and turned sorta white.
>
> After draining and rinsing the drape well, I put in Alodine,
> 1:2 w/ water as suggested in their literature. Used
> cheesecloth to drape over areas that stuck out above the bath
> and kept it pretty moist. I was dissappointed with the
> results. Even after leaving parts in their for 15 minutes,
> there was little color change.
>
> I tackled it again today and added straight Alodine 1201 to
> the old bath, making the solution maybe 1:1. That seemed to
> do the trick. Only took 5 minutes for the desired color
> change. But I did notice the 2nd batch of parts took longer
> to change. I might also mention the original 1:2 bath was
> recycled from my first session a month ago. Although Henkel
> says you can re-use the solution, it seems fresh Alodine does
> a much better job.
>
> But even with the fresh concentrated solution, I still got
> some patchiness. I did prep well: dish soap solution sprayed
> on and scoured w/ scotchbrite; rinse w/ water; wipe w/
> lacquer thinner; kept fingerprints off parts.
>
> Right now I've sprayed all with the first coat of zinc
> chromate (tempo cans). Alodine is supposed to help promote
> adhesion of the primer. Given the patchiness of its coat and
> the hassle with its application, I'm considering just acid
> etching and then zinc chromate without Alodine. How does this
> sound to you zinc chromaters?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan[/b]
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44570#44570
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
--- Crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hello Bob and Listers:
>
> I used the scotchbrite/lacquer thinner/rattle can
> approach for the
> horizontal stabilizer, elevator, flaps, and ailerons
> with acceptable results. I have
> two questions for everyone:
>
> 1) The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever
> by hand. I'm using a
> plain old scotchbrite pad (number and color to
> remain nameless so as not to
> incite another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the
> parts to take the shine off
> them. Is there an easier way? A wheel or something
> to make the job move along?
>
> 2) I've just started priming the wing ribs using a
> scotchbrite/lacquer
> thinner/two-part epoxy primer. WOW - this stuff
> REALLY sticks !!!! I like it -
> but it's a lot of work. Is anyone else using a
> two-part epoxy primer?
>
>
> Tracy Smith
> Naugatuck, CT
> 601xl N458XL (reserved)
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
Tracy.
I used the two part epoxy on the entire airplane
inside. Alumaprep/alodine then prime. Yes it was a
lot of work. I let the alumaprep do all the work of
dulling the surface. I mixed some 409 cleaner in with
the full strength alumaprep to do two steps in one. I
cleaned it with thinner first to get off the ink, then
let the alumaprep do its thing.
I know a lot of people say there is no need to go to
all this work, that 6061 will outlast all of us.
Maybe so, but I had a 1964 C-150 that was paper thin
because of corrosion after thirty years and never by
the ocean. Yeah I know it was 2024 not 6061. But the
2024 they use has an almost pure aluminum layer clad
on it, this is way more corrosion resistant than 6061.
Where did all that pure aluminum go?
I figure that some new owner of my plane thirty years
from now will look inside at no corrosion and say WOW
did this guy really know how to build an airplane.
Worth every extra hour I put into it.
Although I must confess that I found a place called
Pacific Coast Anodizing that did what the industry
calls Chem-film, (alumaprep/alodine)that did all of
both wing parts (ribs,skins,spars all little parts)
for $75.00 and the entire fuse and tail parts for
another $125.00 for me. I got them back individually
wrapped in paper, picked up and delivered to my door.
Not bad if you live in the central valley of
California.
Keep up the good work I think it is worth it.
Mark S.
701/912S
Paint booth built
painting
__________________________________________________
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Larry
When I built my 701, I made my flanging dies from plywood as per Chris H. plans.
I used them for my 701, got permission from ZAC to use them on the 601
(plans called for slightly different size flanges) and my cousin is now using
them for his 701. Simple to make, but take a little time. At the time (no
expereince) it took me one day to make a male/female set, the second day I made
two different sets.---------(now I could make them all in one day) I have friends
who believe in overkill and think they have to be mechined from aluminum
at a mechine shop----not so-- unless you are going into the airplane production
business.
Fritz -- Corvair, 601XL scratch builder, 90/90
LHusky@aol.com wrote:
OK, I live in the desert! It is 100 miles to the nearest Taco Bell. I am
320 miles from my building buddy who is also building a 601XL. I am at a point
in my fuselage where I need to flange my holes. The holes are cut, just needs
flanged. I bought a 2 wheel flanging tool from Aircraft Tool Supply because
Aircraft Spruce is back ordered. They said the company has been back ordered
for some time now and the manufacture said it will be at least another month,
so I bought this one. IT STINKS!!! It took me 30 minutes to mess up a perfectly
good hole. It won't be seen, so that is the good news. I am wanting
to build my center wing spar, but I have to flange the holes first and the front
one can be seen if someone at a fly in looks hard enough.
I have been all over town trying to find someone who can make these dye's for
me and there just is no equipment here to do it. I don't care if they are made
of silly putty!! Does anyone know someone who can make them, or does anyone
have a set they would be willing to sell or rent to me. I am running out of
things to do on the fuse now. I still have wings to build after the fuse!!
I could continue using the tool I just bought, but I really hate using it. My
building buddy already has a lot on his plate and needs his tools right now.
We were neck and neck in the build, but he has long passed me. I looked at the
Sonex site, but there's is smaller and I would rather stay with the plans.
Any help would be appreciated. I work as a police officer and a correctional
officer, so I don't have a lot of time to look for these specialty tools, especially
in the middle of NOWHERE!!! I will take wood, metal, plastic, or even
dried mud dye's right now.
Thanks,
Larry Husky
Lakeview, OR
Building Fuse, but thinking about building the engine instead!!
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Plans builder HELP!!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash@yahoo.com>
I got stung by Spruce's backorder of the flanging tool
too. I then noticed that the replacement wheels were
made by Avery. A little bit of thought suggested that
if the wheels were made by Avery, the tool must be
too. I called Avery and the tool arrived in about four
days. Exactly what was in the Spruce catalog. I don't
know why the Spruce Goose is having so much trouble
getting them.
Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch builder
Working on Elevator
do not archive
__________________________________________________
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: flanging dies |
Big Gee,
Where did you get the plans for the plywood dies??
Thanks,
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Big Gee
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: flanging dies
Larry
When I built my 701, I made my flanging dies from plywood as per Chris
H. plans. I used them for my 701, got permission from ZAC to use them
on the 601 (plans called for slightly different size flanges) and my
cousin is now using them for his 701. Simple to make, but take a
little time. At the time (no expereince) it took me one day to make a
male/female set, the second day I made two different sets.---------(now
I could make them all in one day) I have friends who believe in overkill
and think they have to be mechined from aluminum at a mechine
shop----not so-- unless you are going into the airplane production
business.
Fritz -- Corvair, 601XL scratch builder, 90/90
LHusky@aol.com wrote:
OK, I live in the desert! It is 100 miles to the nearest Taco Bell.
I am 320 miles from my building buddy who is also building a 601XL. I
am at a point in my fuselage where I need to flange my holes. The holes
are cut, just needs flanged. I bought a 2 wheel flanging tool from
Aircraft Tool Supply because Aircraft Spruce is back ordered. They said
the company has been back ordered for some time now and the manufacture
said it will be at least another month, so I bought this one. IT
STINKS!!! It took me 30 minutes to mess up a perfectly good hole. It
won't be seen, so that is the good news. I am wanting to build my
center wing spar, but I have to flange the holes first and the front one
can be seen if someone at a fly in looks hard enough.
I have been all over town trying to find someone who can make these
dye's for me and there just is no equipment here to do it. I don't care
if they are made of silly putty!! Does anyone know someone who can make
them, or does anyone have a set they would be willing to sell or rent to
me. I am running out of things to do on the fuse now. I still have
wings to build after the fuse!! I could continue using the tool I just
bought, but I really hate using it. My building buddy already has a lot
on his plate and needs his tools right now. We were neck and neck in
the build, but he has long passed me. I looked at the Sonex site, but
there's is smaller and I would rather stay with the plans. Any help
would be appreciated. I work as a police officer and a correctional
officer, so I don't have a lot of time to look for these specialty
tools, especially in the middle of NOWHERE!!! I will take wood, metal,
plastic, or even dried mud dye's right now.
Thanks,
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Stratus/601 cowl |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
George,
The slope of the upper cowl is the first issue. Trying to keep the
lower edges of the upper cowl level with the longerons, plus or minus a
quarter of an inch at the front,
the upper cowl has to be the first piece. You've got the most room at
the top, but the cowl will look strange if it isn't level at the joining
edge and parallel with the forward top
skin on the top. This requires you get some duct tape and position it
first on top of the engine if your engine is mounted.
Once you've worked top down, it's time to find the spots that need
clearance to get the bottom to come up around the engine and get mating
surface underlap with the top cowl. The engine also has to have
3-degrees offset for prop torque and can be down as much as 2 degrees to
get the prop flange and spinner to align with the cowl.
If you were making an engine mount, it'd be better to pivot around the
front flange and swing the rear of the engine to keep the spinner in the
center of the cowl. As most have
found, the Zenith mount with Stratus engine can be offset up front by as
much as 3/4-inch. You might find it easier to remove the exhaust pipes,
muffler and valve covers while doing this fit up. This will initially
allow you to focus on fewer items like the oil pan. Then mark the spots
of contact and consider how much is needed to get around them.
Well, you get the drift of what is needed, but it's easier top down and
you'll fit these a good many times to compile the best position before
you start anchoring things with
fasteners. I found the places that would ultimately become center
positions for Dzus fasteners and drilled an 1/8-inch hole for clecos to
first secure things. It does get close everywhere, but you can get it
all to fit if you plan ahead before drilling for the clecos.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
George Swinford wrote:
> I'm encouraged by the good responses to my cowl questions. Here is
> another:
>
> Is it best to assemble the two halves of the cowl on the work table
> and somehow clamp or cleco them together before fitting one or both to
> the fuselage? With the Stratus engine in place it isn't possible to
> fit the lower cowl to the fuselage without trimming it to clear the
> various "lumps" on the engine. Trimming the lower cowl seems to be a
> cut and fit sort of process. Also, it seems to be necessary to
> establish the position and slope of the upper cowl pretty early in the
> process. Any advice from those who have been there already?
>
> George Swinford
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: flanging dies |
Fritz, I would be interested in seeing a set. Do you have a picture of the
die and maybe a picture of a lightning hole. Any instructions on how to make
them? I have a band saw and a drill press. The rest, I could probably
borrow from another officer at work. I am ready to try anything.
Larry
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Plans builder HELP!!! |
Doug, how did they work for you. I really wanted the Avery flanging tool.
Mine came in and has big wheels that are metal. Would not be bad for
something thicker than what we are using on our planes, but I don't like the metal
wheels.
Larry
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
Thanks everybody for the feedback :=)
> The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand.? I'm using a plain old
scotchbrite pad
Ditto w/ the dual action scotchbrite, especially w/ skins, since the pad is ~6"
across. I have a weanie compressor so it's not time efficient for me.
> Did you do a water break test?
Well...uh...no...Knew about it but didn't do it. I did notice the water ran off
easily in sheets, but should have thoroughly tested.
> jungles of Oregon
I'm in similar jungles of the former Oregon Territory. Before that the city was
named by George Vancouver after the controller of the storekeeper's account of
the Royal Navy. Juding from that, I presume it to have been one of the last
things he named.
Cheers,
Dan
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44661#44661
Message 55
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|
| Subject: | Re: Flying stuff |
Ron, great to hear from you. I finished up the annual and mods tonight and
after washing tomorrow I'll try flying again. It's been a month. Hope I remember
how ! I can't wait to see how the LRI works out I just installed. Hope it's
as big a help to me as you have indicted it has been for you. Take care, Bill
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
Tracy,
I found that it was not bad using the pad by hand. I know that there are
scotchbrite wheels that are available but I did not use them. I found that when
the pad took longer to use I got rid of it and used a new one. They weren't
all that expensive and the new one worked much faster.
In a message dated 7/3/2006 5:50:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Crvsecretary@aol.com writes:
The scotchbrite pad thing seems to take forever by hand. I'm using a plain
old scotchbrite pad (number and color to remain nameless so as not to incite
another Scotchbrite debate) and rubbing the parts to take the shine off them.
Is there an easier way? A wheel or something to make the job move along?
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: Alodine and Zinc Chromate, Part II |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com>
Enco sells the maroon 7447 scotchbrite for $.59 per pad. I don't use one, but they
also have on sale scotchbrite wheels. Order more than $50 and you can get
shipping free if you use the code WEBRN76 Their site is . They ship fast, are
fairly cheap and have excellent customer service.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=44671#44671
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump puzzle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
If the fueling station has underground tanks and above ground pumps
that are sitting out in the sun, the fuel in the pumps may partially
vaporize and cause slow pumping at first. The pumps are sucking the
gas up out of the tanks, which makes the problem worse. High octane
auto gas is easier to vaporize than low octane and all auto gas is
easier to vaporize than avgas. Also, auto gas made for winter use has
a higher vapor pressure than summer auto gas.
With the fuel system you described in your earlier post, I wouldn't
think vapor at your pump inlets would be a problem since any vapor
that forms in the tank should rise to the top of the tank and away
from the tank outlets and the pumps.
If your tank screens are starting to clog up, you may see a drop in
pump pressure as you demand higher fuel flows with high throttle
settings. If this is the problem, it should also show up on the
ground during a high power run-up. If your tank vents are restricted,
it may take a while for a drop in pump pressure to show up because it
takes a while to form a partial vacuum in the tank. I don't know how
your tanks are vented but you should check for blockage (mud wasps
are notorious for clogging up small tubing for instance). Any
restriction in your fuel lines upstream of your pumps can cause
pressure drops at higher fuel flows.
On Jul 3, 2006, at 5:39 PM, Michel Therrien wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> I noticed when I fueled up at an airport recently
> (with 91 octane mogas). The performance of the pump
> (the fueling pump) was very poor for the first 20
> seconds (fuel was flowing very slowly). The man
> mentioned something about fueling be slow when
> gasoline temperature is high (due to vapor, or
> whatever). As a matter of fact, as soon as cool
> gasoline entered the pump, it became faster.
>
> Could this be the same type of problem? I suppose the
> gas is fairly hot in those alum wing fuel tanks.
>
> Any way to improve this?
>
> Michel
>
>
>>>>
>>>> Good morning!
>>>>
>>>> I recently discovered that my fuel pumps are less
>>>> efficient in flight. Fuel pressure (which is
>>>> measured
>>>> at the gascolator) gets down to ONE psi.
>>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
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| Subject: | Bending wing rear channels for scratch builders |
First of all, I am not trying to pass myself off as any sort of "expert". We
truly have many of those on this list. I say that in all sincerity. I for
one am grateful for the wealth of knowledge found here. I'm just learning as
I go.
Anyway, I have put together an Acrobat pdf file detailing how I bent my wing
rear channels. Randy Bryant has graciously posted them on his website
www.n344rb.com and Chris Smith will be posting them on his site
http://ch-601xl.com/ .
They say necessity is the mother of invention For me that should be poverty
is the mother. I'm pretty good at figuring out easier and less expensive
ways to do things. I hope my ideas can be of some help to other builders out
there.
Thanks,
Dave
Temple, Texas
_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender...again... |
Hope you are able to adjust it correctly, BUT
If the range of the sender cannot be possible to set complete, and you need to
make a choise. I will advise to have the accurate reading in the empty side
mark.
Is better to know when the tank is empty, or how close is to empty, when you are
flying headwind.
Doesnt matter that the gauge marks full from, lets say 3/4 to full, for example...
Just what I will do...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Randy Bryant <randy@shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted
by: "Randy Bryant"
Thanks Larry,
In short, I guess what you're saying is for me not to have a "built in"
reserve with my guage...???
Just make it read what's really there.. If it's full, it's full, if it's
empty, it's empty...right?
Thanks!
Randy
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 4:45 PM
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland
>
> Randy,
> I'd put the float in a position that puts the least amount of fuel at the
> bottom of the fuel gage reading. It's being able to see the float jiggle
> to a low fuel setting
> that offers an idea of how far it is to empty. It would be my preference
> to know that to within the last gallon. Where it is when it's full or
> above half is of little consequence
> compared to the gage that will read nearest empty. Otherwise you'd be
> guessing when it hit bottom or if it hit bottom with 3 gallons in play due
> to the movement of the
> plane. My gages read to less than half a gallon and it's easy to tell
> when they've stopped moving.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Randy Bryant wrote:
>
>> Over the past 2 days I've been scratch building my wing tanks... I plan
>> on doing a top installation of the fuel senders. Not really knowing the
>> exact location of where to cut the hole for the sender in the top of my
>> tank I did the following:
>> 1. I put the tank on my level table and using a wooden block under one
>> end of the tank, simulating the dihedral of the wing.
>> 2. Next I put a level flat on the table beside the tank simulated the
>> fuel level. I wanted my sender positioned in such a way that when the
>> float hit the bottom of the tank, I would still have approx. 3 gallons of
>> fuel in the tank. (Inboard bottom corner of the tank.)
>> 3. Sliding the level back and forth along the table you can manipulate
>> the point where the fuel level and tank bottom meet. After doing some
>> calculations I came up with a placement of my sender where approx. 3
>> gallons would be left in the tank when the float hit the bottom of the
>> tank.
>> I guess my real question here is: Do you guys see anything wrong with
>> the way I'm doing this? Am I overlooking an important item in all of
>> this?
>> The measurement I came up with is that the sender would be 420mm from
>> the inboard tank end, measure towards outboard. I have posted an
>> illustration of what I'm trying to describe here:
>> http://www.n344rb.com/images/FuelSenderAnim.gif
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Randy
>> XL Wings - Plans Only
>> http://www.n344rb.com
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: flanging dies |
I would love to get my hands on the plans for the dies. Would post to my
website if anyone would like. Between the no weld brake plans from David
Clay & this I have gotten half my questions solved about plans building!
On 7/3/06, Big Gee <taffy0687@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Larry
> When I built my 701, I made my flanging dies from plywood as per Chris H.
> plans. I used them for my 701, got permission from ZAC to use them on the
> 601 (plans called for slightly different size flanges) and my cousin is now
> using them for his 701. Simple to make, but take a little time. At the
> time (no expereince) it took me one day to make a male/female set, the
> second day I made two different sets.---------(now I could make them all in
> one day) I have friends who believe in overkill and think they have to be
> mechined from aluminum at a mechine shop----not so-- unless you are going
> into the airplane production business.
> Fritz -- Corvair, 601XL scratch builder, 90/90
>
> *LHusky@aol.com* wrote:
>
> OK, I live in the desert! It is 100 miles to the nearest Taco Bell. I
> am 320 miles from my building buddy who is also building a 601XL. I am at a
> point in my fuselage where I need to flange my holes. The holes are cut,
> just needs flanged. I bought a 2 wheel flanging tool from Aircraft Tool
> Supply because Aircraft Spruce is back ordered. They said the company has
> been back ordered for some time now and the manufacture said it will be at
> least another month, so I bought this one. IT STINKS!!! It took me 30
> minutes to mess up a perfectly good hole. It won't be seen, so that is the
> good news. I am wanting to build my center wing spar, but I have to flange
> the holes first and the front one can be seen if someone at a fly in looks
> hard enough.
>
> I have been all over town trying to find someone who can make these dye's
> for me and there just is no equipment here to do it. I don't care if they
> are made of silly putty!! Does anyone know someone who can make them, or
> does anyone have a set they would be willing to sell or rent to me. I am
> running out of things to do on the fuse now. I still have wings to build
> after the fuse!! I could continue using the tool I just bought, but I
> really hate using it. My building buddy already has a lot on his plate and
> needs his tools right now. We were neck and neck in the build, but he has
> long passed me. I looked at the Sonex site, but there's is smaller and I
> would rather stay with the plans. Any help would be appreciated. I work as
> a police officer and a correctional officer, so I don't have a lot of time
> to look for these specialty tools, especially in the middle of NOWHERE!!! I
> will take wood, metal, plastic, or even dried mud dye's right now.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
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